Topic: The State of the Industry

@graymamba I know it will sound as a cop-out, but I just feel like we don't really have the data to say how bad of a decision it was.

I mean, on a personal level, I fully agree with you. And I just commented how much of a loss it is for gaming as a whole. Bluepoint was a reunion of seventy highly trained, highly intelligent, highly accomplished people who did from impossible ports to state of the art remakes. Not to mention the tech they used which will probably die on some Sony computer or be used in a way less efficient way.

But from a business point of view, when you sit there with dozens of accountants, project managers, business analysts, ect, it is not that clear. It is just like Microsoft. They are apparently shitt*** the bed every other day, and yet they don't stop growing, getting more powerful, more rich, more everything. At some point you realize that even though we are getting rekt, and maybe the entire landscape is being made worse, the specific company is not.

I will not say this is necessarily the case of closing off Bluepoint, but I won't argue otherwise neither.

All I'm going to say is that it is, once more, a sign that we all should move to PC if we really expect to keep our games around. This business of console exclusivity and walled off platforms will not last forever.

@wittedbugle with all due respect… and this is from me specifically and not necessarily representative of the sentiment of my Push Square brethen, sistren, or any other Ren that might be applicable… but **** PC!

@graymamba yea, no, I get it. I wasn't into it as well.

@wittedbugle
"It seems like they are winning, since they are dominant on a certain market, which is console gaming, but most don't realize that it is a shrinking segment."

If i had a dollar for every time I heard that console gaming was "shrinking", "dying" or "gonna be dead", I'd be able to buy Sony myself. Console gaming is alive, well and not going anywhere anytime soon.

"Not only it, but their single player experiences barely bring actual profit, to the point of stimulating actual company growth. It is also highly dependent on how many Playstations they sell, which is a liability."

I agree their exclusives don't make enough profit as they should, but that's the loss they are willing to take by pumping out quality AAA games you can't get anywhere else. Nintendo has good exclusives for their fans and their taste, but their drop rate on exclusives per gen is terrible. Yet they have survived 40yrs now. The exclusives is what draws people to buy PlayStation and makes it worth still making a profit on games from the likes of ND, Guerilla, Sucker Punch etc but not expecting gang busters type profit, because games of that quality are expensive and take loads of time. But it all works out in the end. Naughty dog hasn't even released a game yet for ps5, is still prob a year and a half out, maybe two with intergalactic and yet ps5 just surpassed ps3 in lifetime sales only 5 yrs into ps5's life cycle.

Gaming has overtaken the entertainment industry as a whole. Everyone and their brother games. Its kinda like the iphone. Lots of people DO NOT NEED a new iphone with every new iteration. Its crazy, its just a phone. But most of them buy it anyways when they really shouldn't do it financially. People do the same with gaming and consoles. They will put new consoles and games on their credit cards when they really shouldn't, just to be getting their game fix and/or not to feel left behind when a new console releases because they are gaming enthusiasts.

The ps5pro was nothing but rage bait for people crying "why do we need this" laughing at how expensive it is, saying it will not sell. Lol funny cause its selling on par with ps4pro which did very well as the first mid gen refresh Sony ever tried. Proved the naysayers wrong, because again, people would go hungry before they give up gaming. Esp that shiny new console in their fave ecosystem.

Now you add the sinking ship which is Xbox into the equation, who is deciding to put their games on Playstation now, add GTA6 in November and I guarantee, regardless of how long it takes ND to release their first game this gen (intergalactic) or how many studios Sony closes that cause an uproar (bluepoint) the ps5 is gonna continue selling like gang busters, esp this holiday with GTA6 and everything else coming to ps5.

Console gaming is perfectly healthy. Nintendo is proof. Their consoles and games are very niche, yet they've been striving perfectly fine since the NES, for 40yrs now. And gaming as a whole back then was not the juggernaut hat its is today.

Sony is healthy, will remain healthy. I just think that when they do these things that piss people off like close studios, or lose a tons of $$$ on live service gambles, people think that they will tank themselves out of the game. That is not true. As dumb as alot of their decisions have been, they are still very smart business people. Do you honestly think that these people who work at Sony, would take a gamble on live service and take into account how much $$$ they could possibly lose if it doesn't work out? They would have never taken these gambles if they weren't 100% sure that the company could eat the $$$$ if it doesn't work out. Big corporations do not do stupid things like this. It takes years of planning, some of their decisions. Sadly it did not work out, but it will not impact Sony one bit. Its just sad to see people lose their jobs as game devs over this. But people will not stop buying PS consoles over a total stranger losing their job over a studio closure, that I can assure you

@StitchJones Just to clarify, since your answer seems to have misunderstood what I've said.

Yes, console gaming is shrinking, it is undeniable.

No, it is not dying, didn't expect you to take it that way. Yes, it is healthy. Yes, Playstation is healthy. Yes, PS5 is succesful.

Nintendo is currently succesful, but almost drowned during Wii U, which led then in a new direction (hybrid market, probably inspired by the success of 3DS). Up to that point, though, they didn't have a plan for the future. Thankfully, the Switch model is their future-proof plan.

Xbox is drowning, but Microsoft is thriving. I mentioned it because their way also secured them a plan for the future. For Microsoft, I mean. Even if the Playstation suddenly fails, they will still get something somewhere else, be it Steam, Nintendo, ect. Xbox is deemed to disappear as we know it, though, yes.

About exclusives, I agree, but all it takes is one of their games underperfoming and suddenly they are in a dire situation. The studio, I mean. In that sense, this exclusive model is almost a bet. Shawn alluded to that. Hence why it is a liability.

Different from Nintendo, Playstation exclusives cost too much and takes too long. I think this is important to mention.

Company strategies do not thing in short time spans like five or six years, but in 10+ years, so the next ND game is not relevant to their overall strategy for the future.

GTA 6 will certainly make them a lot of money, but a company can't depend on another company's decision. It is a liability. And, anyway, I mentioned GTA when I was talking about something else, I don't know if you understood it well.

"Sony will remain healthy" is not how business works. If the enviroment changes and a company don't adapt, they get sick and either dies, get cuts or go full bankrupt. Not saying this is going to happen, though.

Clarified all of it, the rest of your response is just what I've said. Sony knows they are in a position that is not future proof, hence the push towards mobile and GaaS, despite the success of the PS5.

Yes, I believe they are intelligent people, hence why I am not criticizing the closure of Bluepoint, despite being sad about it.

And actually, I don't think any of their decisions are necessarily dumb beucase, as I've said prior, I don't think we have the data for stating something like.

@wittedbugle Xbox is drowning and MS is perfectly fine not because "they secured a plan for the future", its because MS has more $$$$ than God. If there's any company on earth that could have a failing games business, its MS. They could have 5 failing businesses under the MS umbrella and wouldn't even bat an eyelash at the losses, because again they have more $$$$ then God.

And btw, your initial post and the last one, you made some very good points. I agree with you for the most part. Just the couple of things I pointed out, we didn't agree. But I want you to know, I respect you and this is constructive conversation. I like to be civil on here. I don't want you to think I'm being contradictory on purpose to be a jerk. That happens alot in gaming chats, ya know?

@StitchJones I just think this is a bit of a naive way of putting things. Yes, sure, loads of money. But, in the long run, they also know how to make their enterprises make them money. Doesn't mean they don't make mistakes along the way, but, so far, they eventually become profitable.

In terms of gaming, the way they are finding to do so is to basically kill Xbox in favor of the whole Microsoft gaming. Good for them, terrible for us.

And yes, sure, all in good faith (:

I came on here to really rant and fume about Bluepoint, but I see that @graymamba has done a stellar job already. As has @Ravix and so I have little to add at this point. Basically ditto to both of your condemnation blasts on Sony and the industry. This closure (Bluepoint that is) has rattled me. They made one of my favorite PS5 games and one of my favorite PS4 games, and are extremely talented. And I don’t remember exactly, but Sony bought them pretty recently. What has it been… like 4 years ago? If even that?

And here’s where I’ll respectfully give a slightly different opinion from @wittedbugle and I’ll preface this by saying I don’t have a business degree and have never been a corporate executive, but… I think to say that the suits at Sony and PlayStation know what they’re doing is giving them too much credit. I suppose they’re making money but good grief they’re burning money too. And seemingly at an extravagant rate. I don’t think Bluepoint was an expensive studio and is “only 70 people” who are affected by poor corporate decisions, but they’ve decimated hundreds of working folks lives over the last few years. Actually thousands I would guess. I’ve long since lost count.

But even taking the humans out of the picture they are making poor money decisions left and right. Buying Bungie was unquestionably one of the biggest errors by any metric in the history of the company. What was it, $3.6 billion? Not to beat a dead horse but buying Firewalk also and spending whatever godawful amount on Concord ($400 million?) and actually I could list another half dozen mistakes but then to realize each of those cost real people like you and me jobs and livelihood because of corporate mistakes.

And I realize corporations are not charities and the workers are these companies are never guaranteed anything, but I honestly think Joe Gamer on his couch could have known some of these decisions were not going to work.

I don’t expect perfect omniscient prognosticating skills from the executives, but the pattern is just too much. I’ve seen it in other industries an in the government especially about how fast as loose they make decisions in their own secluded bubble, while the masses out in the public who are actually in the trenches often know good and well what works and what doesn’t work. The blasted politicians and bureaucrats actually are average unremarkable people like who you’d see at Wal-Mart, and as I’ve met and talked with some executives and I am surprised at how pedestrian sometimes they are, and aren’t any smarter than you or me. Sure there’s brilliant and talented people in the board rooms, but there’s equal measure of people who got there through connections, fortunate circumstances, and sometimes nefarious means, and can be just as idiotic and fallible as the rest of us. I use to look up to government officials, public figures, big wig corporate CEO’s, celebrities, and the like, but now I realize the people I know out working in our normal lives are often more capable. They certainly have better common sense usually.

Edit: and I suppose I should consider the statement “And actually, I don't think any of their decisions are necessarily dumb because, as I've said prior, I don't think we have the data…” which is both true, but also not a reason for blind faith either. There are factors that don’t get reported, there are metrics that definitely factor in and could make more sense as to what prompts a corporation to buy a studio and then immediately close it. But I’ve seen waaay too may times the data can be manipulated, misinterpreted, mishandled, and just flat wrong. One of my teachers used to say “garbage in, garbage out” when he was teaching us about crunching data. In other words the result of a study or analysis is only as good as the numbers you collect and know. Clearly Sony has had some bad analytics to keep closing studios and laying off employees and cancelling games.