Topic: PS5 and Series are both bad consoles.

As for MS's output in terms of Game releases, lets take E3 2021 to E3 2023 - that's 2years with '2022' in between that. However, in that time, MS has (or expects to) release Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite, Age of Empires 4, Psychonauts 2, Deathloop, Ghostwire Tokyo, Pentiment, Grounded with Forza Motorsport, Starfield, Redfall and minecraft Legends expected before E3 2023. That's not including MSFS which came to Xbox consoles, all the updates and DLC to their games and any 'older' game that may of gotten a Series S/X native version - even if they aren't 'sold' as a remaster. Of course, not all of these have yet released on Xbox Consoles or were Console 'Exclusive' either, but they are still classed as MS/Xbox games.

Unless I am mistaken, Sony over the 'same' 2yr period has released just 3 'brand new' games - all in 2022. They had nothing from E3 to the release of GT7 and H:FW before E3 2022, and have just GoW:R (unless they have some big new game to release - at least that doesn't require VR headset) before E3 23. Of course they have also bumped up the impression of 'more' content with 3rd Party Exclusives like Deathloop, Ghostwire etc and of course 'old' games ported to PS5 like Last of Us.

I know 2022 as a 'calendar' year looks bad for 'Xbox' console gamers as they only got Pentiment, Grounded and Deathloop in 2022, despite MS also releasing AoE4 and Ghostwire too, but over the '2yr' spell between E3 2021 and E3 2023, MS will have released more than 6 brand new games a year (average) - its just that most either arrived 2nd half of 21 or first half of 23 and a lot were NOT exclusive and/or available on Xbox consoles for 'reasons' - although AoE 2 and 4 and Ghostwire: Tokyo are expected 'soon' as is Goldeneye for 'older' games coming to Xbox 'consoles' specifically.

When making a statement about 'output' of games, it pays to do your research and not just count only those games that came to Xbox exclusively. Not counting Deathloop, Ghostwire, Minecraft Legends or Dungeons, Age of Empires, Psychonauts 2 etc because they weren't 'exclusive' to Xbox Consoles day 1 is ridiculous because they are all owned by MS andmade by MS owned Studios. They still count as 'output'...

I can't argue that 'Xbox' console owners didn't have a 'lot' of big new games to look forward to - although those games should all be playable on Xbox consoles soon. Looking ahead, I have Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine to look forward to at some point - no doubt others in development - but on Xbox, I have Fable, Hellblade 2, Outer Worlds 2, Avowed, State of Decay 3, Perfect Dark, Indiana Jones etc to look forward to after Forza Motorsport, Starfield and Redfall so 'long' term, I am more concerned about Sony's first Party releases and their output - will they bump up their 'output' with PS5/PC ports of their games, split their development and releases between VR2 and PS5 so don't release 'many' just PS5 games etc and they have mentioned having numerous Live service games that 'generally' don't interest me - like Last of Us Factions (although I can't say yet if I am interested or not in the 'new' version, I didn't enjoy the PS3 multiplayer so I am not expecting this to interest me) and will they 'split' games to sell MP/live service modes separately instead of in one 'complete' pack like we used to see to 'bump' up the number of games - should we count Halo Infinite as '2' releases - the paid for Campaign and F2P MP suite that released on the 'same' day as opposed to waiting a year or two after LoU2 to get Factions...

Output is almost irrelevant if you don't enjoy or 'can't' play those games on your 'preferred' Platform. It doesn't matter if MS released 'more' new games than Sony since E32021 if you don't enjoy those games or can't play them on your preferred platform, they still released though. I could play most, if not all on my 3080ti Laptop anyway so I wasn't 'left' out and I know that Sony gamers benefitted from Deathloop and Ghostwire 'first' on console, but they 'still' count as Output from MS...

@BAMozzy i mean on console you have to update as well , it’s no different . when a driver needs to be updated it just takes you right to it and the computer does the rest . tweaking settings is optional , and similar to console but more options and things to do if your interested .

@Ralizah yo yo Ral, how's things.

Great comment as always. The tin foil hat is on with my reply to this;

'Alleging some sort of planned obsolescence scheme is ridiculous, though.'

It's not that ridiculous. Phones have planned obsolescence built in more or less as an example. I'm guilty unfortunately of never returning faulty products and moan online instead, thus am part of the problem. The stick drift is so bad on the joy cons and dualsense. Is it really that far fetched? If its a recurring £30 profit on every controller, you know its been brought up before at least, and planned around at worst.

I work in used cars and we work with ongoing customers returning cars 18 months - 4 years after purchase. If there was a way to get everyone to revisit a maximum of 2 years post purchase the owner would get on it like sugar on a fruit pastel.

@BAMozzy Microsoft are constantly lambasted for their output. Are Sonys games 'better'? In my opinion, yes. However that's not to say Forza, flight sim, age of empires et al are bad. Just different and for a different audience.

@themcnoisy I'm not saying there are no instances where it never happens, but, for example, this has caused a lot of public headaches for Nintendo and, to some extent, has impacted a wide swath of the controllers manufactured in recent years. And when it's hitting multiple companies who aren't known for developing shoddy hardware simultaneously... c'mon, I think we both know this isn't some conspiracy. Just like the shortage of PS5s in recent years wasn't an "artificial shortage."

@themcnoisy I wasn't talking about the 'Quality' as that can be Subjective - depending on whether you prefer certain genres, certain stylistic choices, certain game-play loops etc. All I was demonstrating is that in the last 18mnths, despite the fact that there is this assumption that MS released 'nothing' in 2022, they have actually released 'more' new games than Sony. That's what I was referring to, the quantity of games considering the rhetoric of Xbox has 'no' games, has all these studio's yet not releasing games...

I know that the Xbox Console hasn't 'benefited' too much as a LOT of the games were either multiplatform or not released on Console 'yet' for various reasons. If you take the games from E3 2021 - E3 2022, a LOT were well received critically - even Halo Infinite. Forza Horizon was IGN's GotY and Flight Sim, Psychonauts 2 and Deathloop also did well critically. Whether you 'prefer' the 3 Sony Games (GT7, H:FW and/or GoW:R) is just 'preference'. I prefer FH5 to GT7 personally, but H:FW is my favourite release over the past 18months - but I wouldn't say it was 'better' than MSFS or FH5 - its just different games with different game-play loops but all were well made. In fact, in my opinion, the only 'true' Next Gen game released so far is MSFS as 'nothing' can compete with its scale, ambition etc that 'next-gen' only machines can just about run - but doesn't make it 'better' or 'worse' than Sony's games which are 'last-gen' games with a bit more 'graphical' prettiness added on PS5. It just comes down to whether you prefer a flight sim with the ability to go anywhere in the world with incredible realistic 1:1 scale playable space or a more 'artistic' presentation of a 'smaller' area, but with a story, with more varied game-play loops etc - Both are 'excellent' and one of, if not the 'best' in genre options.

All I was saying is that despite the 'common' perception that MS has 'all' those Studio's and yet still 'no' games releasing, especially in 2022 when 2 of their Biggest 'new' releases weren't expected on Xbox Console (Ghostwire and AoE4) as well as some delays to Starfield and Redfall. And if we take a 'gaming' year to be from E3 to E3, much like a Financial, School or even Football 'year' doesn't start on Jan 1st, then MS is on target to release over 6 games a year if we look at E3 2021 - E32023 - a 24 month period. My point was that despite the Xbox console not getting any 'new' AAA games in 2022, other than Deathloop of course, that doesn't mean MS didn't release 'Any'. Just because they weren't 'exclusive' to Xbox consoles or even released on that 'platform' yet, the fact is those games were still 'released' by MS and still count as output. Whether you think ALL those games are better/worse than Sony's few is irrelevant to the discussion regarding 'output'. That only becomes relevant when deciding which Platform you prefer but criticising MS for a 'lack' of games is really harsh when circumstances have dictated that 'some' of their games won't be on Xbox Consoles day 1 for 'reasons' and people refuse to count any MS released multiplatform game because they can play on Playstation but doesn't mean they weren't released by MS and MS owned IP's...

Its always going to come down to whether you prefer the Games from Sony or MS and it doesn't matter if MS released say 20games in a 2yr period if Sony's 4 or 5 appeal more overall - especially as you can play the 'few' MS games you want to on whatever Platform(s) you can with a small monthly fee - OK so its not the 'best' way to play those games, but it is a cheap way and means you don't 'miss' out because you preferred to buy a Playstation.

If we look at the year E3 2021-2022, MS released the majority of their games in the first half of that year (or last half of 2021) where Sony had 'nothing' new of their own to release but did release 2 games before E3 2022. Then if we take E3 2022-2023, the 'year' we are currently in, MS hasn't had a lot in the first half, but have quite a busy 2nd half. I know Sony has PSVR2 coming up, but I can't think of a 'new' AAA game expected on PS5 before E3 so is GoW:R the only game from Sony this 'year' where MS still has Forza, Starfield, Redfall and Minecraft, as well as AoE2/4, Goldeneye & Ghostwire Tokyo coming to 'Xbox' consoles for the 1st time. Not bad for a Company with all those studios and yet 'no' releases...

@BAMozzy I agree Bam 👍. I think the general consensus is because Sony have released 3 big games then MS should do the same. Obviously life doesn't work like that. They have released games, it's just not GoW or HZD2. And to some they are the only games that count.

Don't take My word for it. Use reddit on any gaming page and for every mention of a great release (such as immortality) which isn't heavily marketed there are 100x that for your GTAs / War zones and Forzas.

@themcnoisy The Problem is that people only compare Console AAA exclusives and don't look at 'each' as a whole. Games like Minecraft, Psychonauts 2, Dreathloop, Ghostwire: Tokyo, Age of Empires 4 etc are 'excluded' when talking about the 'games' MS has released over the past 2 years even though all of these are MS owned IP's made and/or released by MS.

Where was 'Sony' when MS were releasing their games after E3 2021 - FH5, HI, Psychonauts, MSFS etc? relying on Deathloop as their 'holiday' exclusive to make up for their 'delayed' Horizon and GT7 games coming now in 2022. Ghostwire too 'helped' them in that year too of course with both Deathloop and Ghostwire coming to Xbox in 22/23.

All I was pointing out is that MS has released a greater 'quantity' of games over the same period of time than Sony and regardless of the 'platform' they released 'first' on, are still MS games, still count as MS output. Those games were not 'lacking' in quality either, scoring well on metacritic and generally well received too - so it comes down to 'personal' preference - whether you'd prefer to play H:FW, GT7 or GoW:R vs MSFS, Psychonauts, HI, FH5, Deathloop, G:T, Pentiment, Grounded, Forza, Minecraft, AoE4, Starfield and Redfall - all of which should be on Xbox by E3 23. That of course doesn't take into consideration 3rd Party Exclusives (timed or otherwise) and/or other differences too to influence your purchase decision.

Regardless of games, there is still other reasons to buy Hardware. If you are interested in VR, then Sony has the only option on Console so along with their 'own' first party software, they will continue to have their own Unique Selling Point to 'compete' with Nintendo, MS, Steam etc.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was more about the 'perceived' lack of releases because for some reason, they seem to only look at the games that are 'console' exclusive on Xbox hardware - refusing to count any 'multi-platform' release and/or games released on 'other' platforms first (PC and/or Playstation) as 'Xbox/MS' releases despite the fact they are all owned and/or made by MS.

Of course, I would have preferred to see 'more' games in 2022 instead of delays to 'early' 2023 - all of which still keeps those games in the 'same' gaming year (E3 to E3) and of course would have liked to see Ghostwire and Age of Empires release day 1 on Xbox - which would have 'helped' the perception but that's circumstances dictating the release schedule. Doesn't mean those games that 'did' release don't count though...

I know that some people have very selective memories and can twist the 'reality' to suit their arguments - Reddit/Forum/comments sections are FULL of people twisting reality to suit their argument. I have no doubt that PS5 had a 'stronger' first Party showing in 2022 than Series S/X because of those circumstances but that doesn't mean MS themselves didn't release any AAA games in 2022, just that the only one to come to Console was Deathloop with Ghostwire and AoE4 coming to Xbox Console in 2023 but also released Pentiment and Grounded too. If you are an Xbox customer on PC, you certainly 'benefited' from these releases...

@GymratAmarillo DS4 at launch had series issues. Both of mine suffered the known problems of trigger hinge creak leading to breakage and the rubber on the sticks cracking off with hardly any use. They redesigned those parts in later production. My blue replacement ds4 and the one I got with my Pro never had those problems but the first ones definitely were a design fail.

Ds5i think went back to the bad rubber. It gets sticky like PS3 and ds4 rubber if you don't use it for a while, we've one of mine did crack some rubber off, but it's used far less than my xb elite and switch pro.

Why everyone doesn't use the rubber scuf uses I'll never know. That stuff is bomb proof.

So for one, to your credit, the PS5 controller isn't the first instance of the controller failing out over time with intention. We must remember the PS3 controllers where after a certain amount of time random buttons get prompted. Then we also have to acknowledge the Nintendo Switch controversy where it was generally accepted in the audience to straight up buy a physical controller as soon as you buy the Switch before the PS5 even came out.

It is funny that you mention the PS2 controllers outlasting generations. I have had the worst luck with my PS2 controllers, having gone through 4 official ones, and 5 cheap 3rd party ones, yet the 1 MadCatz 3rd party controller outlasted them until the X button caved in after 5 years. And no, I don't throw my controllers around or eat while playing. It was either the L1/2, R1/2 buttons sticking, falling out, the X button caving in, or the controller pins no longer being recognized. If anything, the PS1 dual shock controller of mine remains standing the test of time.

As for the PC/Console port controversy, I will never understand this logic. This is under the assumption that a gamer has a PC rig that exceeds the PS5's own specs when that is mainly a vocal point of people online and not the average consumer who has a "family pc" in the real world that would likely meet the minimum requirements at best. Not to mention the PC gamers who don't even game above 1080/1440p resolution for higher or locked frames so they aren't getting the same experience. Finally, many moons ago, games having a PC ports didn't affect one audience from the other. If you're upset over getting a PC version after investing in a PS5 console, you probably didn't care for console gaming in general anyway and wanted a reason to not use the new graphics card money on a new console.

The $70 increase of games I personally see both sides. One, we've been at $60 for 2 generations on PS3 & PS4. PS2 games were $50, and PS1 was $40 in the States.Technically $80-100 on PS3 if you were a part of the Season Pass bundle craze. But regardless if that trend of $10 increase per gen would've continued we would've been paying $80 on a new game today so in a way we lucked out. But we are in a financial crisis and it's already bad enough regions outside America have to spend more to get a PS5/Series X today than last year. The best thing with physical games that are not Nintendo is the price will decrease overtime and you don't have to buy it day one.

That said I would like to see more diverse genres again, since there's the push for every game to push 10+ million instead of pumping out multiple genres and gaining a wider audience and being thankful that at least one breaks the bank. We need more exclusive games on all sides. Sony I wish would've followed Nintendo in having a franchise still pump out games to this day. The longest franchise outside of Gran Tursimo is God of War. Nintendo survived with just Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Smash Bros. Maybe then losing CoD wouldn't be as big of a deal.

@InsaneWade Interesting comments and specifically on the $70 gaming price tag I agree with your mixed feelings. I wouldn’t necessarily deny the developers and publishers their due even though many of them are rolling in profits. I’m not a complete laissez-faire economics type of person and I don’t mind letting the market set its own prices sometimes, within reason. And I think we’re seeing an interesting schism forming by said market — more AAA games are now embracing the $70 price tag (and upward with all these special editions / complete editions / season passes) including third party games now. So clearly Sony was ahead of the curve with pricing (or at least setting the curve). HOWEVER, we are also seeing the pricing strategy bite them in the rear too. Games like The Quarry and Returnal were probably hurt by being released at $70. So I think the industry is getting a feel for what constitutes a $70 game and so we’re hopefully gravitating toward more tiered pricing, which has always been my preference. Some games warrant paying $70 for while others (even of the AAA variety) really need to be released at $60, $50, or even $40. I paid $70 for Returnal and it was worth every penny, but as a whole, it probably wasn’t in line with the market price at the time. Still haven’t pulled the trigger on The Quarry, but $40 is the absolute max I’m willing to pay (despite being a fan of the studio and genre the game represents).

The real killer for me is the annualized games launching at $70, and including a boatload of microtransactions on top of it. Again, the market has spoken that the people want a new NBA, Madden, FIFA, etc every year and well, so be it. I just hate that it sends a message that the industry should focus all their efforts on just making iterations of a successful game rather than innovating or producing new IP or new approaches to existing IP.

And therein lines the other side of the coin to what you mentioned about Sony missing out on keeping their franchises long-running like Nintendo — I can agree with what your saying but I actually like how they haven’t run too many things into the ground and that even with their longest non-sports franchise (would MLB The Show also be up there with Gran Turismo for longest running?) GoW was rebooted with a completely different setting and gameplay arc in 2018. I realize Zelda, Mario, and Pokémon have done this as well, but it feels less progressive to me from the outside looking in. But I definitely could be wrong.

Regardless, diversification of the game output has been one thing I’ve appreciated from Sony, despite their heavy-hitters being mostly of a similar narrative style.

I like my PS5, actually.