Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

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@JJ2 On Xbox, BC is cross gen so if you play a 360 game on XB1, you are potentially playing with others on 360 - if there are any still playing on that system. I can't say though if there are any dual release games that are also cross-gen but I don't think so. Few games released on both after the first couple of years and the initial releases were definitely not cross-gen. That affected games like CoD: Ghosts as those early adopters had much lower lobby sizes and games like Battlefield obviously offered much bigger battles - 32vs32 so couldn't have worked - at least not in that mode.

I don't know if you can take it as 'gospel' that ALL games releasing on both generations will be cross-gen or even cross-play despite the fact that it could happen with some. There is already a 'miss-match' in MP on consoles with the mid gen refreshes. Just because a game like Battlefield maybe listed as 60fps, it can be running at 40fps in the big game modes on a PS4 yet much closer to the 60fps target on a Pro.

I know consoles are 'supposed' to provide an 'even' playing field - although internet speeds, TV input Lag, distance from host/server etc do impact on that. Size of and distance from a display too can give you an advantage over another - make distant objects easier to see - resolution can help a bit here too by adding the detail - can't really see a face in 4 pixels but 16 pixels would. A Soldier in a green camo against green bushes etc would be difficult to see if the shape is too small to show the edge details and that 'blob' of a face wouldn't be recognisable as a Soldier but at higher resolution, those extra pixels will bring more recognisable shapes and details. Its not just resolution that the mid-gen consoles offered but also better, more consistent frame rates - in multi-player too. Obviously its not 30fps vs 60fps or even 120fps (or more), but it can be 50% better - 40fps vs 60fps for example.

Next gen will have a much more balanced build - a strong CPU with a strong GPU. Next gen will offer up to 120fps too and input lag is tied to frame rate. Even if your TV can't display 120fps content and drops every other frame, the game could still run at 120fps and get the best controller input lag.

People question why anyone would want to upgrade without any 'exclusive' content to play. It's not just visuals - higher resolutions, better lighting, better LoD's etc but better performance and feel. I love MANY games that have played at 30fps but 60fps feels better, more responsive. Not stuck in loading screens for as long (if at all with next gen) but in a MP cross-gen game - loading screens will still affect next gen systems whilst they wait for older gen systems to load in the map, the team-mates etc. I notice on Destiny if someone was playing on a base XB1 for example as I am loaded into the world before them and waiting on them to load into the environment.

DF have done some MP tests with games and those on lower spec machines have had to wait for buildings etc to drop in to the environment which are clearly there on the higher spec machine - PUBG is a classic example. The fact you can play games like Fortnite on a mobile at 30fps against gamers at 60fps (or more) with bigger screens and higher resolutions to see more distant objects easier, does make me think that we may well see more cross gen games with potentially bigger gaps than we see from mid-gen refreshes. I have wondered though whether you would see 'clans' in games like Destiny or CoD specifying what console you must have to join - like must have Gjallahorn - because it could affect their loading in, feel like they have to carry someone playing at 30fps etc. Its not just the fact the game is only running at 30fps but that it does affect input lag, response times etc and would be at a 'disadvantage' regardless of how good they are and could do better than a mediocre player that has the next gen console and the advantages that offer.

At the end of the day though, its not that different from the PC space - except with a console, you aren't likely to get any modders or hackers. It will be interesting to see what happens and whether or not some/all games will offer cross-gen. It may come down to the devs - they may not allow it because they don't want to cap 'next gen' versions to 30fps or put up with any repercussions of a vast difference in performance. They could say a game is 60fps on both but on last gen, its avg 30fps. Its like saying a game is 1080p but with DRS (Dynamic Resolution Scaling), its mostly ~850p and only hits 1080p when your character presses his nose up against a wall (no draw distance, little detail to draw etc). Of course if the game is capped to say 60fps but only runs around 30fps on last gen, that instability will be worse than capping it to 30fps and having that difference 'official'. It may be easier for devs and the gaming community to go without cross-gen for a 'sense' of fairness which is why I think it will probably be offered on a game by game basis rather than offered on ALL games as standard. As for playing Outriders on PS5 with friends who are on PS4, I think you may have to wait to see what happens. I wouldn't take it for granted that will be happening at all but until we know for sure, I wouldn't discount that possibility either.

As far as playing PS4 games on PS5, I can see them sharing the same servers and players. If the leaks are true, the PS5 looks like it will run like a base PS4 or PS4 Pro - depending on the game, so you may not get any 'improvements' on the way the games look or run. The leaks seem to indicate that the GPU will drop its speed down and even turn half off (like the Pro does) with games that were not Pro-enhanced. If you play a PS4 game on a PS5, if this leak is true, then the PS5 and the game is running just like a PS4/Pro anyway so no reason why they can't share the same servers and user base.

We will have to wait and see what happens, what devs want to do as I do expect them to have some say in whether cross-gen play will be offered in their games - even if its possible, doesn't mean they will either.

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@JJ2 It's something that really only came about at the start of this generation. Before that, games weren't really played online much at all. Also if you grew up in the 80's and 90's, back compatibility wasn't really a thing either.

I was one of those that upgraded to current gen relatively soon after release. I was a CoD player, in a Clan that had been together for a couple of years but upgrading split the clan up. Not that I am complaining - its just that's what happened. I am also one of those gamers that buy a 'new' console to play 'new' games at the 'best' they can be on a console. I still have some of my old consoles and games (I had to throw a LOT away in 2013 when I moved) so could always keep playing. After a while though, the backlog of new games takes priority and I haven't played on my PS3/XB360 since probably 2014 at the latest.

When I upgraded, my season pass for CoD:Ghosts was transferred to the new console. However, you couldn't play games like that, Battlefield, Titanfall etc across the generation. Things like that and BC certainly didn't impact sales for Sony who broke all their records - their fastest selling console, sold more per year than any of their others. It may not of sold as many as the PS2 (I think ~158m sold) but that console was in production for 13yrs - double the time the PS4 has been around for...

It will be interesting to see what happens with games in the next year or so and whether or not they are 'transferable' or just back compatible with next gen. It looks like MS may well be offering a transferable system so that you get the Series X version when you upgrade console with Smart Delivery. Whether Sony offer something similar or you have to specifically buy the PS5 version because the PS4 version tells the PS5 to run like a PS4, I don't know. Quite a few older Xbox games on BC were Xbox One enhanced too - running at 4k with better Anisotropic Filtering and MS sound like they are taking that to the next level.

If, as it appears, that MS with Smart Delivery becomes like the 'PC' gaming where your games run at the best the hardware allows, upgrading a GPU (or console in this case) unlocks better visuals/performance without having to buy the game again, then it seems that ALL games will be cross generational. If you buy Halo: Infinite for example on XB1, that game is still the one that's running on Series X and using the same servers. Its not 'Back Compatible' in the sense that the console is 'emulating' (either by hardware or software) an XB1, its used Smart Delivery to install the higher quality assets etc. Its not used some BC team to enhance the game either - its running like the Series X version was meant to run. It will share servers with PC and xCloud streamers too of course.

MS have said that they are not competing with Nintendo or Sony - and it looks like they are becoming more like the PC market and their consoles are more like different spec PC's - just a more locked system. It looks like the Series X is a 'mix' between a new and iterative console - will offer 'enhanced' gaming over the older consoles like a iterative machine yet will also have 'exclusives' if the devs decide that they can't scale their games down like a new machine. MS say it will be at least a year before their titles release on just the Series X. Sony still appear to be following the traditional console format and traditionally, consoles are a completely new start with BC, when offered, not providing any benefits other than being able to run like they did on the hardware they were designed for.

Technology advances of course and what remains 'traditional' and what innovations we see will be interesting. It would be great to know that if you buy 'Outriders' on PS4, you can play with people who have 'Outriders' on PS5. I think it would be better though if you buy Outriders on PS4, then upgrade to PS5, you automatically get the PS5 benefits rather than have to buy the PS5 version or make do with BC running it like the PS4 version it is. Whether that will be the case or not, I don't yet know but Sony would lose the 'lucrative' remaster sales - Last of Us and Nathan Drake Collection were big sellers. MS though have other avenues to sell games - like the PC market and subscribers to xCloud and Game Pass too. They could sell 10m copies of Halo Infinite whilst only selling 2m Series X consoles. Sony need to sell PS5's and their business model may not allow them to take that much of a hit on hardware - especially as they will also have 'exclusives' that only run on PS5. Selling a game twice (remasters) does help but BC may impact on those sales too.

Its too early to know what will happen and plenty of time for answers before releasing the next gen. In either case, it won't affect my decision to own both consoles. It may affect which I buy first though as spending £1k on consoles at release is likely out of my reach - even though I am putting money aside in readiness....