Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

@BAMozzy Hear hear!

As much as I love PlayStation's high-budget games, the drawback is that we have to wait years for them to come out. This is not a problem for me as I have plenty of other games to play in the meantime. But as we've seen recently, most people are fed up with waiting. That's sadly how it's going to be with Sony and even the gaming industry as a whole from here on out. At least when it comes to most Western developers. Japanese ones like Ryu Ga Gotoku and Falcom keep pumping out titles like crazy.

I still miss the PS3 days when Sony delivered more variety to their portfolio of games. I love ambitious experiences like God of War and The Last of Us, but sometimes I just want to relax with some LittleBigPlanet, Sly Cooper and Killzone. And honestly, wouldn't that be the best strategy for them? Release these "smaller" experiences in between all the "larger" ones in order to avoid droughts.

But yeah, I'm definitely more hopeful now for the future of PlayStation as a brand.

@Kidfried And I'm inclined to agree with their suggestion. It feels so unnatural how fast things have been changing for Sony the past couple of years. The Sony we knew during the PS4 era is absolutely not the same as today's. On top of that, Shawn and Shuhei were affected around the same time, with Andrew leaving the company two years prior. I can understand Andrew's departure, but Shuhei left his position roughly one month after Shawn's departure and was replaced by Hermen Hulst. That can't be a coincidence. I think it's very likely something happened behind the scenes.

@Kidfried No probs.

We will likely never know for sure as so much internal stuff is kept 'secret' and even if/when things do leak out, things can very easily be misinterpreted and/or taken out of context to suit whatever argument you want to make. It may not be 'Jim Ryan' himself who decided to commit to GaaS for example and it maybe others that were pushing this direction. Someone above him telling him to find a way to make 'more' money from Gamers for example in his tenure.

As someone else said, Jim takes the 'hits' etc and blame only for the successor to come in and be the 'hero' - Jim could become the Don Mattrick of Sony LOL

All I can say is I started off feeling excited for the future of Playstation 5 in the run up to launch but over the past few years, that has been eroded and now not even sure if I want to remain part of the Playstation Nation. Its not because the Hardware, the 3rd Party games or some of the First Party releases, but numerous things have felt like they have chipped away at my trust and even my expectations - ND - Perhaps the most Consistent Game Developer - making (or not) Factions, but Bungie and their 'terrible' track record in Destiny 2 - especially around MTX's and their eververse store - is the 'benchmark'? That doesn't fill me with Confidence...

First Party games aren't having to pay Sony a License Fee to release on their Platform, aren't losing 30% of Digital Purchases to the Retailer etc. Sony charge £10 for a skin, they get £10. Sony sell a game for £70 in their digital store, they get £70 in revenue. A third Party game costing £70 on Sony's store loses about 30% of that to Sony just for selling the game to you - let alone whatever 'licensing' fees they had to pay as well.

I'm sure Sony will continue to be Successful but with Jim at the Helm and the direction Sony seemed to be going under his tenure, it was not looking like I wanted to be a part of that. Yes they may have 'more' games in development that may appeal to give me something to look forward to, but if its just the odd game or two a year or so, then it may make more sense to wait for them to come to PC and not keep paying for PS+ every month. That's just how Sony are making me feel right now and that's all come under Jims Tenure.

@LtSarge The PS3 era was superb - Uncharted 1-3 and Last of Us, some with MP modes built in as well, a couple of Infamous, Killzone and Motorstorm games too as well as Resistance, R&C etc. I know games are taking longer so Studios can't produce games at the same rate, but I also don't feel like games have 'significantly' improved.

The Hardware may allow for 'better' visual quality/performance, improve loading/streaming etc to reduce some 'design' elements (like Elevator loading sequences), but the actual Game Play loop, the Story the character and character development etc, some PS3 era games are still 'great' today. Uncharted 2 is often regarded as the best - I prefer it to 4 myself. That era gave us BioShock, Dead Space, Assassins Creed etc new IP's that can still hold up today - maybe not every aspect or every game in those IP's, but AC2 is still regarded as the best in the Franchise by many and people didn't think Dead Space needed remaking either.

Nowadays, it feels like most Publishers want to use their IP's and that loyal fanbase to those to turn them into GaaS. AC is full of 'service' elements these days - grind Currency to buy the odd 'Premium' item, but the 'set' will cost you real money, some daily/weekly set of repetitive missions to grind 'premium' currency with 'events' to try to make people come back to see what 'new' Premium stuff has been added in the hope you'll buy. It kind of feels like Sony are going that route too...

@BAMozzy That is actually something I've been thinking about a lot recently and I might as well bring it up here. Like you said, games haven't changed much from before and that's especially the case with Sony's first-party titles. I played through God of War: Ragnarok and I didn't like it as much as the first one. It just felt like more of the same but without the "wow"-factor. The battle against Baldur in the first game was absolutely spectacular. I can't really say the same thing about the first battle against Thor in Ragnarok because it felt very similar to the Baldur fight.

But that's technically how it is with all games today. As some tend to say: "Everything today is just a remix". You cannot create a new IP today without it being compared to numerous other franchises. So you need to do things in order to make that game stand out. Have an interesting story, epic boss fights and so on. But even those aspects can feel similar.

I guess your enjoyment of a game ultimately depends on if you're tired of that formula or not.

@LtSarge Whilst I will agree that sometimes its difficult to recapture that first time of playing 'something', I still think that there was more diversity so even if there were similar games, there was always something 'fresh' as well. Just going on Sony's First Party content, you had more variety. Killzone, Infamous, Uncharted, Motorstorm, R&C, Resistance etc let alone their Japanese games too.

Some of that seems to be an industry wide issue too with third party Publishers not really investing too much in a diverse portfolio and moving towards GaaS or iterative sequel after sequel. Look at where ABK are today compared to the PS3 era - all those Studios pushed into CoD because they couldn't miss their Annual Cash Cow's Holiday launch and their other IP's couldn't bring in the same revenue, so make sure CoD releases EVERY year.

As I said, it wasn't just Sony bringing out more Diverse games, this was the era of Dead Space, Assassins Creed, BioShock, Mass Effect etc too. Skyrim, GTA4/5 and Minecraft all released during that era too and whether you like them or not, they are still played today. So even during the PS4 era, when Sony doubled down on 3rd Person Narrative games that all seem 'fairly' similar in many ways, you still had more diversity in 3rd Party games but with many also exploring GaaS as the Generation went on (loot box craze), At least Sony still delivered these Great Single Player games that others seemed to be leaving behind.

Even Single Player games are now selling Cosmetics and have a store front built into them to sell you the Currency you need to get these Cosmetic skins. Have to be 'online' because they want to add events to sell more Cosmetics etc.

This whilst these Publishers are all announcing higher profits - yet games are costing more to make so prices have to up, only to drop quickly soon after if people aren't wlling to buy at that price. If anything, I'm tired of Games releasing that feel 'incomplete/unfinished' etc, yet have a roadmap of Content they are planning to release after, that 'dribbles' out whilst they still manage to put out MTX content on a regular basis whilst the game still isn't fixed/complete. I'm tired of the whole GaaS Formula and 'digital' store fronts being built into games. It seems that is more of a Priority than actually telling compelling stories that aren't so generic and predictable, some more variety in Game-play instead of repeating the 'same' activities to pad out games and/or make grinding a chore so you'll 'buy' shortcuts etc etc...

@LtSarge That may be true of AAA games but I think that’s why we all need to expand our horizons. The real new and innovative games are often coming from smaller devs. The challenge is those games being able to find any sort of visibility when AAA marketing is a machine.

@Grumblevolcano The weird part is, the sellers don't reduce the price of the base console to match it at least.
£429 for PS5 & EA Sports FC 24 or £479 for a console on its own. Who in their right mind would buy the latter?

Argos - PlayStation 5 Console & EA SPORTS FC 24 Bundle - 324/3905

This is the disc version -

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243905?clickPR=plp:9:8

@nessisonett You raise a good point! Because AAA games are becoming more expensive, less creative risks are being taken. But that's not the case with smaller developers.

Unfortunately, as some have kindly pointed it out to me, I need to narrow my horizons as I just have too many games to play. That goes for smaller titles as well. So I won't be able to experiment as much as before and have to instead rely on marketing/word-of-mouth for smaller games that are worth playing. Cocoon for example seems to be one of those games so I might give that a go down the line!

@LtSarge And now Alannah is saying basically the same about the industry...

@BAMozzy She makes a good point about the FIFA Ultimate Team cards. It generates so much revenue and it's so cost-efficient that why wouldn't other companies do something similar with their games. That's why I'm slightly worried about Sony making more live service games. If they end up producing titles that are constantly generating revenue, then there's no point in making new games. They wouldn't need to make any more single-player games, on top of them already being so expensive to make.

Given games generally take around 5 years to make nowadays, next year is when we'd be starting to properly see the results of the Jim Ryan era in terms of what the 1st party lineup looks like for PS. The PC ports, TLoU Part 1 and Legacy of Thieves Collection will have been Jim Ryan greenlit projects but stuff like Spider-Man 2 would've been greenlit before the Jim Ryan era.

Given what Jim Ryan said in 2022 (12 live service games for April 2022 - 2025) and so far 2 have released (MLB The Show 22 and 23), it looks like 2024 onwards for awhile is going to be mostly a case of live service games greenlit during the Jim Ryan era combined with the new head of Playstation being "obsessed with growth" which doesn't inspire confidence.

At least the 3rd party support is strong to soften the blow.

@Grumblevolcano I looked it up because I couldn't remember the exact wording and turns out it was Ryan saying they would launch 10 service games by 2026 and, a bit later, a slide that said the "projected number of live service franchises" would reach 12 by 2025. The slide listed MLB as the only current franchise but:

• this was before GT7 launched and I'm pretty sure it's one of them
• the wording might suggest that acquiring Bungie and Destiny also counts towards this
• on the other hand MLB 23 doesn't count separately, as it's the same franchise

We do know about a few others:

• Helldivers 2 coming soon
• TLOU if it ever comes out
• The upcoming Bungie and Haven games

Ngl i am quite disappointed wuth the PS5 over the last 2 years. Console works great but the games i've played just haven't been fun. I feel like PS5 just isn't clicking with me like PS4 did.

@WebHead Exactly how I'm feeling towards it. I could often be found playing on the PS4 every spare minute but the PS5 just isn't clicking with me. Apart from the world's most miserable UI, the DS5s are more uncomfortable than the DS4s when trying to play a game but I'm feeling less inclined to turn on 'The Tub o' Lard' (my PS5's official name) than I ever felt with my OG PS4 or the later SSD-equipped Pro.

Personally, I think the PS5 as a 'Console' is great and most games are similar enough to the Series X version as to make little difference. As far as 1st Party games, they were clearly built with PS4 in mind and so you get an enhanced version, but whilst they look visually 'better', they aren't really offering 'better' stories, something 'new' or 'fresh' that really pushes their IP's forward, its a bit too 'familiar' feeling, more iterative...

You could argue that Xbox has been somewhat similar in that its too felt somewhat iterative as we wait for Games that really do utilise the Hardware, built specifically for that hardware etc. However, I feel a lot more 'positive' about the future and direction MS are going with Gaming. Yes it may make Xbox Consoles far less 'important' as Gamers can play elsewhere day/date, but that is more consumer friendly. Game Pass feels more Consumer Friendly than PS+ to me too and once Spider-Man 2 releases, the ONLY 1st Party release I am interested in is Wolverine, where as MS still has numerous games coming that interest me.

Its more the way Sony are running the PS5, their services, their studios etc and their long term plans they have stated themselves that are affecting my enjoyment on PS5. Why would I want to pay £70 to play SM2 day/date when I can play Starfield, Forza, Payday 3, Darktide, Lies of P etc for 'free' day/date and wait for sales or even wait for the PC release? I don't feel like I want to 'support' Sony or their Direction they seem to be headed with Marathon, FairGames, Helldiver 2 & Foamstarz - let alone Factions or the Horizon 'live service' games, so why spend my time/money in their 'ecosystem'.

If Sony had a plethora of games I was looking forward to, I may feel differently but its more Sony than the PS5 that is eroding my enjoyment on that Console.

That's my general feeling. I don't like the direction sony and frankly games in general are going in.

@Kidfried How very true! Xbox had a bad 2022 and their XB1 was somewhat of a disappointment, Sony struggled with the PS3 launch and the PSN outage during that era too but managed to bounce back after each. Nintendo too struggled particularly with the WiiU era but the Switch has been successful and PC isn't always the 'best' place to play either - even if you have the 'best' hardware.

Its an ever changing world due to it being very much linked to technology and technological advancements. The 360/PS3 era saw the rise in Online gaming and MANY Studios were 'shoehorning' Online into Single Player games to jump on that trend - Dead Space 2, AC2, Bioshock 2, Uncharted 2 etc all had MP with the rise in Online games. By the XB1/PS4 era, that had become 'Loot box' hell but also Open World was a trend so that kind of evolved into 'Live Services' and/or these much more 'open' world games - even if they weren't 'true' Open worlds, they were much more 'open' (Wide-Linear, big open 'hubs'). Open World & 'Live Service' is the current trend from PUBG/Fortnite/Warzone Multiplayer games to AC:Valhalla/Odyssey/Origins as Single Player games.

From my perspective, the PS3 era was probably one of the most exciting eras of gaming. We had so many AAA publishers experimenting and bringing out 'new' IP's that really pushed Gaming forward. Games like BioShock, Mass Effect, Uncharted, Dead Space, Assassins Creed etc all took gaming to a 'new' height and the Stories, the acting, the voice work etc could rival the best from Hollywood. The PS4 era was a bit more iterative in that it helped them refine the Visuals and reduce the 'loading/streaming' areas that interrupted the 'flow' - which again has been 'improved' with this gen. I don't think the quality of the Stories, Voice acting or Game-play loop has 'evolved' - more refined.

I have no doubt that Sony will have Games that I will want to play and that I will end up playing on Playstation. There have been other times in the past where I considered whether or not I would bother returning to my Playstation - the PSN outage stopped me playing on PS3 for months and as I was playing mostly elsewhere, I could have easily left then, but 'Games' brought me back. I spent more time on my PS4 than XB1 in the first few years and could have left Xbox in that time too.

Gaming is 'personal' so I am sure it will have moments that feel like there aren't enough hours in the day to enjoy everything you want to play, and other times you'll be looking ahead for some glimmer of hope, where every 'delay' or announcement of projects that don't appeal will feel like they are letting you down after 'investing' time, money and passion into their ecosystem. As many feel very passionate about Gaming too, it can be an emotional rollercoaster...

@WebHead To be fair, the PS4 wasn't all that great either until its fourth year. The console finally clicked with me in 2017 when games like Horizon Zero Dawn, NieR: Automata, Yakuza 0, Persona 5 and so on came out. We're in PS5's third year now, so who knows maybe next year will provide some great experiences similar to 2017.

Personally though, the PS5 clicked with me much earlier than the PS4 did. Astro's Playroom, Returnal, Final Fantasy XVI and even Assassin's Creed Mirage are all fantastic experiences that I played this year when I got my PS5. Granted, most of them aren't "new games" like Horizon, NieR: Automata or Yakuza (I say new in the case of Yakuza because it didn't get popular in the West until Yakuza 0, so most people didn't play it until then). But the PS5 has simply been an excellent experience for me given how high quality everything has felt compared to the competition. I barely play anything on my Series X now and while I have tons of games on Switch, they aren't as appealing to play as PS5 games.

@LtSarge fair enough. But idk i ain't feeling it. I am not fond of the controller either.