@NEStalgia I don't feel like it's a lean back issue but I'm finding it is usually when I'm looking up so maybe I'm instinctively and unconsciously tilting back and triggering a play area error. Though that's kind of strange because I have to practically 360 in my chair to get it to successfully read my room (when manually setting play area) so wouldn't I have space behind me? Idk. Shrugs
One thing I've noticed while setting the play area is there are huge swaths of wall that it doesn't seem to recognize and I'm wondering if it's because they are so white? Like I mentioned, it's an apartment and painted in a very apartment-like way meaning a very colorless interior. Also I have absolutely nothing on my walls for similar apartment reasons. Not that that's causing an issue, it does eventually assess the area, but it takes an extraordinarily long time. Just something I wondered about.
But yeah, I'm telling you, my pick axes just do not work like that. Nor can I jump with even the grappling thing. Maybe I should start over on a new save.
Totally feel you on the head strap tightness. That's probably a lot of it for me now that I think of it. Like I got done playing the other day, went in the bathroom and saw myself in the mirror and had such an indention in my forehead I was like wow that can't be good lol.
PSN: frownonfun
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"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
@neonpizza Fourfoldroot and I were talking about this the other day and we had a similar experience, but, IDK if it's just that my eyes/brain have adapted more to the screen and it just takes time, playing more with reduced brightness has helped my eyes/brain adapt to the screen, if I've just become better at putting it on in the sweet spot and just have better overall experiences as a result, or if the screen really does have a "burn in time", and now that it has quite some hours on it it's settled in (I've seen it discussed but don't know if there's any truth to it), but the past several days in a row I've just been finding the screen, even in Horizon, much clearer with that "grain" from the filter/mura largely absent, etc. yeah, the far ends are soft due to fresnel lesnes being fresnel lenses, but the effect isn't really too much worse than small pancake lenses. No lens is as sharp on the edge as it is in the center.
I HAVE adapted a better (if more time consuming) setup ritual, the band really in the middle of my head, not too high, not too low, and I verify the IPD each time, both on the screen, and manually (just closing my left eye and lining up the focus for my right eye like using binoculars/telescope), it's very reliably clear this way without any of the disorienting blur from VR1, or my use of VR2 the first week. I also (and I keep restating this) do not close the visor tight against my face. I think MOST of us make that mistake! We have a natural inclination to want to close in the visor tight so that the screen fills most of our FOV. This. Is. WRONG. It'll be different for everyone, but I believe the proper position for the visor, at least for me, is with the light shield BARELY brushing my face. I restate: Virtually zero face contact of any kind, just the light shield gently grazing the skin, not pressed against the face like goggles. This puts the lenses out what feels like "too far" at first, and the FOV too narrow, however, once I start playing, and compare it to being in closer, I realize my eyes get tired quickly, my focus tends to see the mura/filter more readily, and see blur more readily in close. With it a bit farther, I properly see THROUGH the mura/filter once I start playing to the point that mura/filter/SDE is basically non-existant, unless I really try to find it the grain. I'm thinking most people that have an issue with the mura/filter are putting the lenses at the wrong focal distance for their eyes without realizing it. When you have it at the proper distance, you should be able to see through it. The exception is the mostly-all-black-screen where of course mura exists as small amounts of light so you can see it then, which is exactly like with mura measurements for TVs.
I was also playing mostly everything on 50% bright recently, with the exception of Horizon. That game does need at least 70% brightness to look correct. Below 70%, the highlight effects, and lens flare/corona do not appear right and what should look like bright daytime with sunlight shining through just looks like flat dusk. That's the only game (so far, haven't checked GT7) that I've noticed that issue. Horizon aside, >50% is often too bright, >70% is almost always too bright, and >75% is an advance pre-order for PlayStation Cataracts(TM.) In Horizon, I had it at 50% in Dawn's Grasp this time and didn't find the motion, or the grain, or mura, or anything else to be a problem anymore. I set out, and entered a new area, Nora Sacred Lands territory instead of The Jewel this time, so IDK how much of it is my newfound comfort or how much is the biome just performing better for the headset, but I bumped it here to 70% after realizing the daylight was just off at 50%, but still did not have any of the fatigue I'd previously experienced with Horizon, nor the grain effect so much when talking to people in Dawn's Grasp, it's a little soft, yes, but not grainy.
IDK how much is brightness, better sweet spot/focal distance setting, my brain/eyes adapting to the new gear, or if there's a real screen burn-in period until it settles that I've now crossed, of if it's just that Nora territory is easier on the eyes than the Jewel is, but even Horizon looks honestly really pleasant now to me. I mean it always looked pleasant when still, and I always loved the game, but even in motion it plays very nice now and I can really enjoy it without that strained feeling. I do see that flicker/motion doubling effect if walking diagonally past object but I think the majority of games do that sort of thing.
The only caveat on Horizon, though and this is for @Jaz007, just don't do smooth turning. Don't do it. Just pretend the game doesn't support it. It's just bad on that game, and it probably shouldn't actually support it, they add a blur and it's a disorienting mess, and the visual strain just carries over to ruin the rest of your time with it. I can use smooth turning in absolutely every other game where I'm not just non-stop turning (Last Clockwinder, Star Wars, this means you), but Horizon, it's just a bad idea and it's a better game if it's assumed not to support smooth at all.
That, and friends don't let friends use >70-75% brightness on PSVR2. That's just paying for suffering. It wows you at first, but after that, the default setting is appropriate when the PS5 is in Rest mode. It's not even about motion persistence, it's just too darned bright, period, but it's nice to have the headroom as the display ages and dims, then it might need to be bumped up.
@colonelkilgore It's a good video, but I can not watch it and not simply be focused on how he sounds exactly like Todd Howard raving about PSVR2, lol
It's a little back handed though, it's basically "this screen is so amazing, I can't wait until better PC gear gets screens like that because console sucks still." Though they talked about no motion blur which is weird, since Horizon of all things definitely does.
@zupertramp If you manually set your play area, you should have space behind you (assuming you manually extended the space behind you.) The "sitting" configuration doesn't give you space behind but yesterday I just configured the standing area so that it'll let me play "room scale" mandatory games, and yeah that should be supported. I actually didn't realize I manually draw my area when in standing mode which is great, because I expanded the area through space it didn't think I had since I know I have arm room there, and manually put a small little slot into my area where my monitor pole is to prevent me from whacking it with my hand quite so often. You should be able to just manually set where you want you area to extend if you haven't done it already, you draw it with the pointer on the floor. It's pretty slick and I just discovered it last night!
Here's a weird thing. My pickaxes have recently been bouncing out of walls. But they didn't do that originally. I'm not sure it's a tracking issue, I don't have issues with other objects. I'm thinking the pickaxes have a bit of realism to them that they don't always "bite" into the wall correctly and can bounce out, making the climb precarious. Which is actually realistic...but that never happened when I first got them! It definitely adds tension!
My new approach to strap tightness is this: Tighten it down a large number of clicks when I first put it on, then close the visor to where it should be, do any fiddling with position I need to do with it there, then, pop the release on the headband and tighten it (for my head) only 3, MAYBE 4 clicks. It's not tight enough to be flailing around with dancing rhythm games (or pistol whip, maybe), but with a wired headset you're not going to be flailing around like a Quest anyway, and it stays in place just fine the rest of the session for hours without the increasingly sore head and doubling vision from a plastic boa constrictor wrapped around my brain case.
I think almost anybody with comfort issues either from the band, the visor, the bridge of their nose, etc, is wearing it tighter than it is intended to be worn! I was doing that myself for the first week until I realized you don't need to do so, AND doing so ruins the image quality.
@neonpizza I'm not a horror person even in 2D, so in VR horror is definitely out for me....I won't be playing Village in VR! Jealous of the horror fans that can enjoy the quality I keep hearing about in VR, but it's not for me. I nearly jumped out of my skin playing non-scary Pavlov when I turned a corner and there's a guy with a gun I didn't expect
@neonpizza The game is definitely not for me, still kinda jealous though from all the good I hear about it if you're a genre fan. Heck, even if Alyx happens I'm half tempted. I remember being completely anxious about the headcrabs and later the big fish things in Half Life 1, and then in 2 ,I was cool up until Ravenholm, then put it down for like 2 years before steeling my resolve to finish it (And what a dreadfully disappointing finale that game had...)
It's weird that almost no press, even DF (DF!!!) has pointed out the motion persistence issues, with many even commenting "no motion blur" (of course, LCD has it's own motion issues, which is I think what they're talking about.) But I also think this Bradley fellow is overblowing it a bit, and that comments section is a hard read because there's so much PC Master Race chest beating going on. So much raving about how it's a total fail of a device vs the next 4 iterations of Quest every other year without pointing out that you need a 4080 rig to make any real use of that setup, so of course a solution costing 4x more will be better. When Quest and Apple deliver a TOTAL solution for under $1200 (from rendering to HMD) that beats it, I'll listen. The fact that we're comparing $3000+ total kits, into the future, to this and the only warts are needing to turn brightness down or fps up to get a good solution and the lenses have tiny sweet spots as the down sides, we're in good shape.
VR enthusiasts in general are stuck in that tech loop (to quote Ken Rockwell: Measurebators) that are looking at the paper spec of the next big thing, imagine how great it's going to be, declare everything else inferior, then get the next great thing, find the flaws right away, realize it doesn't live up to the paper spec's dream, then repeat the cycle.
VR is all about tradeoffs. I expect Quest 3 to have better lenses. I expect the screen to be both better and worse, all about tradeoffs, and I expect the comfort to be a downgrade, and the graphics and average framerate to be way worse unless you're plugging it into a PC, WIRED, where it may or may not actually use DP-over-USB or still use the hideous compression from before (because they don't REALLY want you using it on a PC, they make no software money that way.)
One point I disagree with you on is the pure blacks. IDK how you're seeing light from OLED pixels that are off. By definition OLED is pure black because the very nature is the pixel is OFF, without a backlight. You can't have "better" or "worse" black levels on a pixel that isn't emitting light. You might be seeing mura and thinking it's gray blacks? Or the SDE filter glare at times? I only see it if I look for it, and of course very particular dark screens like starry skies with a glow. But I've seen only pure, true blacks from mine (unless a particular game has a broken gamma curve that never calls for true black so it's always gray because the game is calling for gray.) And that's going to be a tradeoff with any backlit display type vs this.
I think there's really two primary issues though:
The BIGGEST issue is the lenses. Yes, you can't use pancake on OLED. Tradeoff. But the size of the sweet spot, IMO is THE biggest issue. Way worse than the persistance. It's very difficult to find that particular sweet spot, and even me who's found it reliably can't always find it. Yesterday I struggled, fidgeting with it for a while where it was just not quite perfect like I know it can be, and just couldn't find the right positioning. Then played pistol whip where I nearly shook the thing off my head several times. And suddenly after that the position was just right, lol. I think even the slightest off-sweet-spot positioning makes everything, including persistance feel much worse. I think that's really the one major issue.
The other is the default brightness. Yes they deceieved in marketing with 240 nits by omitting that they're not actually adjusting brightness and are tuning brightness by just going from BFI to always-on pixels. But on the flip side I think we all need to step back and ask WTF anyone wants 240 nits beamed into their retina from an inch and a half away?!?! It's insane! That's way, way, way too bright. It's great for tech demos at trade shows to wow people with how vibrant and lifelight the outdoors looks. It's not the way you want to spend 5 hours with flashlights strapped to your eyes like a voluntary Clockwork Orange.
Defaulting to MAX is the wrong default for everyone. It's an impressive demo, but it's a terrible way to play. And, because MAX means basically NO black frame, not even partial, that means its' also the only setting where the persistence is a more serious problem. If they defaulted to HALF and let you adjust from there, I dont' think this would have gained much attention or thought. Sure 0 is the smoothest motion because there's no HDR (but still 10 bit color) and is full frame BFI, but I don't think at 25-70% the motion issue is anywhere CLOSE to as severe as at 100%, to the point even that Bradley guy may not have noticed.
The more hours I've played it the more I want to turn the brightness down, not for motion, but just because of the brightness. That's a lot of light. I'm averaging 50% for most games, but honestly want to turn it down for quite a few as that's even too bright, I was at 25% for a while yesterday just for the "right" brightness. (Exceptions: Horizon 55-60% now. 70 is more lifelike still, but still also too bright really, even if that game doesn't apply it right, Townsmen it's kind of flat and dull and thus harder to see the things you need to see easily with contrast below at least 40-50%. SW There's a night area where the gamma curve is bad and the blacks crush into true-black voids at spots if too low, so 50% at least.)
I think if they just defaulted to 50% out of the box though, even 70%, there wouldn't be as much issue. Not as good as 0% in terms of "CRT-like" but a suitable arrangement.
@NeonPizza If you're playing Tetris Effect and looking at the rock floor, you're doing it wrong. Yeah some backgrounds are way better than others but the problem with a game like that in general is you never even see any of it because you never get a chance to look away from the 2D board. It exists only for the periphery. Still, the game is somehow better in VR. But it's kind of a waste in VR because you're playing a 2D game by nature even if it's best in VR.
LOL 4k per eye matching TV games. The current consoles can't even reliably do 4k60 (or even 4k30) rendering it ONCE, for a TV, and you want it to do 4k TWICE, at 90fps? And you want an Apple mobile device to be the thing that does it?? I think you're waiting for PS7+PSVR4 (which probably won't even exist, but hey, while we're dreaming... )
I booted up Hitman 3 to look at the new update, and it turns our that it doesn't work with VR. They converted everything into VR, but just didn't do some upkeep to put freelancer into VR. Absolutely ridiculous. I hope it'll get put fully into PSVR2 eventually, but until that annoucement comes I feel a bit shorted. It seems kinda lazy that it doesn't work in VR since that was such a big and advertised feature.
Hitman 3 is more of a VR game to me now, than a flatscreen game.
Seeing VR sidelined for no reason other than a lack of care and proper feature maintenance seems like bad form to me.
@NeonPizza I think it'll be interesting to see how games work going forward with PSVR3. Will the PS6 natively use PSVR2? Will the next headset be an upgrade that isn't required? Will it be developer discretion? I'm sure they'll want backwards compatibility at this point.
I do agree with that California raisins comment though. I want to (within reason) enjoy what life has to offer now. Sure, VR will be better in ten years, and despite having the complexation for it - I am not a immortal vampire, so I'd rather just go on the ride I'm given.
@NeonPizza I think a Pro (I don't think it will exist but if it does) would HELP but I actually don't think it'll get everything running the way we want still. I don't put a lot of faith in those incremental half-steps and fragmented markets, though. I'm also unconvinced Sony is willing to do the incremental VR headset thing. Especially since I doubt they're making much, if any, money on the headsets. So far it doesn't seem to be their approach, but we'll see.
Yeah, with you on Runner though. I want to love it, it does a lot of things almost right, and then it really drops the ball. They did improve some things in the last patch, but the messed up controls still really kill a lot of the game. I honestly can't get past the first boss. That armored.......beetle looking vehicle. Cyberpunk minivan? Whatever it is. It just takes unlmited punishment and maybe if the controls weren't a mess I could figure out how to do it but I just get frustrated and quit every time.
I haven't actually tried Jurassic World, that's the one thing I haven't tried. I'm not into the IP at all, really, so I've mostly just ignored it. Plus I figured it's mostly jump scares. I nearly jumped out of my skin in NMS with those hostile mantis things that sometimes pop out of an egg sac and lunge lol.
But yeah, we agree on PSVR3, 2030 or so. The thing with 3k per eye, etc, is, it doesn't matter if the SCREEN has that many pixels, if the processing behind it doesn't actually render them. I don't really see a difference between a fiilter that smooths out SDE and nearest pixel matching of low res copied to a high res display, except it takes less computational power. And even in 2029 a Quest 3 isn't rendering 6-8k on a mobile chipset. I don't think PS6 will do it at 90fps either. The thing with the high res panels in Quest and Apple is I think it's all geared toward AR, not VR. A VIDEO feed showing the real world in high res, then low res AR graphics pasted over it. It needs high res for the video feed, but I think we're a long long long way away from using that kind of resolution in rendering space. Apple/Quest 5 is meant to show you your conference room in life-like fidelity, while you watch 1080p popups scaled to 2k, doubled for 4k overlayed on it. I don't think it'll make use of that in VR space (PC VR will of course, if it works with it, but that's a whole other universe.)
But yeah...you get it....we're a long way from that real dream... and won't be able to enjoy it by the time it arrives anyway, so I'm just enjoying what we have.
PLUS current VR is a chance to roll back the clock and get chaper more expeirmental crazy games. Just think, by the time that 8k per eye perfect real VR exists, VR games will be mature, mass market, and every game will be a $500M mass market pleases everyone boring Marvel licensed collect the icons copypasta. Enjoy the weird PS1 days we're in again thanks to wild west VR!
@NeonPizza By the time we have 16k display the AIs will have taken over the world and restricted us from using VR for our own good. Either that or forced us into permanent VR and we won't know.
"which i'm sure will make the PSVR2(if it doesn't get a revision/version 2 with a few upgrades by 2026) completely dated in terms of head set design/aesthetics/form factor, resolution, controller ergonomics, no sweet spot, no mura etc etc."
Aesthetics, maybe. but I think the controllers, love them or hate them are going to be part of the brand identity of PSVR2. I don't think they'll change that. Sony cares about controller brand identity otherwise they'd have fixed their horrible Dual Shock design in Y2k. Screen..... mura seems to be part of OLED by nature, so that assumes an industry-wide change to how oled works. I don't think that's going to happen soon.
"Micro-OLED?" You mean Micro-LED, right? Maybe. Sony is involved in that though no mfr is really doing much with it. The theory is great but the yield is horrendous. It actually works better on very large displays than very small displays right now. I know there's much talk of that for VR, but we'll see. Iapple supposedly will do that, but Apple's going to charge prices that PSVR + a PS5 won't touch and aim it at corporate buyers. The use of pancake vs fresnel does come down to oled/brightness though. I think PSVR3 is the first contender for that, not a PSVR2 revision. A screen change like that would change the spec too much.
I'm still curious to see how the quest 3 really behaves (I won't be buying one at least right away.) I see a lot of potential negatives to the flat visor. it LOOKS nice, and I wouldn't hit my visor with my controller when pulling things close to my face anymore, but there's potential issues to that. The optics being one of them (It may well have a compression effect based on screen to lens distance, making the depth look more shallow.) For an AR focus that won't be a problem.
The controllers: The wrist straps are for legal liability purposes, no way they're coming out. The design....IDK, again I think they're going to make the design part of brand image and that won't change. I agree they're kind of cumbersome, I agree it's a pain grabbing controllers without pass through......but....idk, anyone confused by how to hold the controller too much probably shouldn't be trying to use VR My biggest annoyance with them, really, is Light Brigade where you have to hold your hands together to "pray", and that's just awkward. Ironically most it interfered is horizon when crafting new tools (scripted) and tying rope windings...those controllers clash too much.
Wireless. I hear you....I hear you on having it as an option.....I get it all, and I don't disagree, even I'd like the option even just for pistol whip and synth riders.... but.........there's a tech support cost associated with people with noisy radio environments. I mean I don't disagree with wanting it optionally as youdo, but then you have batteries, you have new circuitry on the headset, you have charging ports on the headset, you have safety certifications for the battery and charger, you have wireless transmitters on the console, licensing registration for radio frequencies in every single bleeding country/zone. And PS5 drops the connection to my DS5/Edge controller from 3.5 feet away if I drop the controller to my lap behind the chair arm.......I don't trust Sony's ability to build antennas.
@NeonPizza I don’t doubt there will be another headset, I simply question if they’re will be a PC sequel approach at all where you can choose which headset to use. I hope not honestly to force new features to be standard. I do hope for backward compatibility though.
And are the rings really bad? I haven’t used then, so this could be wrong, but to me they look better than a quest controller because I can let go more and do hand gestures without worrying about dropping as much. So from my (potentially just uneducated) perspective, the rings are a generation above the quest controllers.
I think a price drop will happen just line with PSVR1, and I’m sure that’s planned. Maybe not PSVR $200 Black Friday deals, but I could see $300 Black Friday later on.
I also agree about the sweet spot stuff.
Today I’ve just got myself a PSVR to try out for myself and my kids to see how we get on with it before considering putting down over £500 for the PSVR2. I’ve only got the headset itself for now. I know I’ll need the camera and move controller but what I’d like to know is how many move controllers would I need?
Can I still get the adapter to use it on PS5 for free still?
Also I tried putting on the headset to see how it fits but I could still see out the bottom no matter how tight or how I positioned it on my head, is it a cause for concern?
@MaccaMUFC I hope you and the kids enjoy psvr, there are some great games on the system.
You can try and order a free adapter, I think they are still available but if your headset was preowned then the previous owner may have ordered one in which case your unit will be refused, They are on eBay I think.
As for moves, you really need two but the odd game does support one and I would suggest looking on the store game pages.
I'm surprised it didn't come with a camera but then the original unit didn't which also surprises me.
@MaccaMUFC I could see out the bottom a lot of the time, but it never really bothered me. I also have it go away if I have the back of the headset higher up on my head. But even if that doesn't work, I wouldn't worry about it.
You'll need two move controllers.
I don't know for sure, but I imagine so. I'd just submit a request and see what happens.
@CaptD@Jaz007 Thanks for the replies. I’ll submit a request for the adapter but if that’s a no go I can get one for a fiver from somewhere.
There may be some games that I’d prefer to use the controller so would the PS5’s DualSense work with the VR headset or would I have to buy a PS4 DualShock controller?
@MaccaMUFC It depends on the game. If it uses the lightbar, then you'll need a DS4, if not, then it doesn't matter.
For example: Resi 7 doesn't use the lightbar and can be played with a Dualsense.
Hitman VR uses the lightbar, so it needs a DS4. Astrobot also requires a DS4 as an example.
@Jaz007 Hitman VR and Astrobot are among the games that I want for the PSVR so it looks like I’ll need to add the DualShock to the list. It’s all adding up buying the camera, move controllers, possibly the adapter and now the DualShock, that’s before I even buy any games! It’s turning out to be an expensive investment this 6 yr old VR headset.
Finally got to boot up Call of The Mountain last night, my first PSVR2 game, and for the first time I actually got motion sickness. Never got it on PSVR. I was blown away though. It's just phenomenal, though I don't like when the vision 'narrows' as it pulls me out of the world. But for now, I think I'll only be able to play it for an hour or so before I need a rest.
@NeonPizza Why wouldn't Astrobot be able to run at 90FPS like Moss? Horizono and Resi 8 are very demanding games. I'm not sure what about Astrobot gives you that impression.
@ScarletSpidey You should be able to get rid of narrowing vision in the settings. I think it's called vignette. I can't stand it in VR games and it makes me feel more sick instead of less.
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