Eye-Opening PS5 Sales Data Reveals Why Microsoft Is Porting Xbox Games

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare MLB hasn't always been cross platform. In fact it was quite a big deal when the league mandated to Sony that future releases be multi-platform from MLB 21 onwards.

It was the first time people saw a Sony published and developed title on a competing platform and was arguably the start of Sony's shift to a less rigid policy on platform exclusivity - even if, at the time, they were more pushed than chose to jump themselves.

The games are also developed in-house by Sony's San Diego Studio, so very much a 'real Sony game', even if they don't own MLB themselves.

but a new table from Circana really puts into perspective why the Xbox titles are going multi-platform.

I don’t quite understand how this is supposed to be the “why” behind Microsoft multiplatform push. Why would this table put things in perspective all of a sudden? Only new perspective that could be derived from this chart are the Forza sales. Most of these titles have always been multiplatform. If anything, that perspective should have been obvious a long time ago.

Namely, if you want to maximize sales potential of your games, it would probably be ideal to publish it on a platform with the most users.

Only thing this table shows is that Microsoft bought two of the biggest third party publishers in the world and therefore own many of the game releases.

And that Sony hasn’t released much in the same Q2 period. Although Q3/Q4 will probably look different when they include the sales of Death Stranding 2 and Ghost of Yotei etc.

I think it’s time for Sony to buy some big publishers of its own, so it can boast about having a large output as well .

[i]not really a Sony game[i] given that MLB has always been cross platform.

All the Xbox games on that list have always been cross platform, except for Forza and Indiana Jones.

Using the same logic, would you say that Doom, CoD and ES are also not really Xbox games?

That really is mad when you think about it. But honestly Microsoft’s problem isn’t a lack of quality games, especially with them, well, buying devs who make good games. Very happy to get them on PS5 as a consumer, couldn’t care less about anything else.

If anything, this HAS to piss Microsoft off in a way. Sure, they're making money on these titles being on PS5, but think of how many millions more they could have sold if they hadn't put them all on to Gamepass.

There's absolutely no way the GP math for these big budget releases truly works in their favor. If it did, they wouldn't be doing this at all.

If Microsoft brass isn't staring daggers at the Xbox decision makers, they should be. There is no world in which GP truly makes sense for Microsoft from a business perspective. This all proves that.

I’m just happy Microsoft helped Sony out of PlayStation’s live service quagmire by filling the game release gap PlayStation created with Xbox (former) exclusives.

@MFTWrecks But think of how much money they'd lose over the MANY years they hope to keep Game Pass subscribers still in their Ecosystem, buying all their DLC, Battle Passes, etc through their store because that's where they play these games. With 35m+subscribers paying just $10 (some pay more and Ultimate for Day 1 on Console is $20 but just for ease, lets say $10), that's $350m in revenue per month. How many Studio's can you keep open and keep paying their development Costs with $350m a month, effectively paying for the Games 'in advance' over time instead of 'hoping' thy sell.

And most games don't sell 10m copies in the first month or two when the game is at its highest, it may sell 2 or 3m in its first few months, but most of its '10m sales come after big price cuts. Also doesn't stop 'sales' on those platforms, it reduces them in favour of player numbers, getting those 10m+ others that wouldn't have bought to play it. You can't say they've lost sales as the vast majority probably wouldn't have bought and the rest would only buy in a sale 6-12+ months later.

Forza Horizon 3 wasn't a 10m seller, PS5 sales of FH5 will probably beat it and that's not including ALL the sales from PC and Few on Console that prefer to buy. Some people still want to 'own' their games - even if they use Game Pass to access games earlier but they'll buy in a sale later as usual...

It turns out that MS was right, this (PS5) IS an Xbox. 😁

It’s amazing what you can do when you spend $80 billion + and fail spectacularly. If Microsoft didn’t spend that money all these game would still be on this list except forza horizon 5.

xbox did pay almost 70 billion for activision blizzard at that time it was worth more then nintendo itself...

@lacerz I’m really weirded out by this narrative that Xbox is somehow “helping Sony out” by releasing these games on Playstation, when literally all of these games (except for Forza) would have released on Playstation anyway.

Edit: Never mind, i read it wrong, my bad. You were talking about former Xbox exclusives(Forza) and not these cross platform games

@Fartingale Exactly! The list would look exactly the same even if MS didn’t acquire Zenimax+Activision. Don’t quite understand why this chart is supposed to be so eye opening.

People act like Xbox are bringing these IPs over to Playstation for the first time or something, when all of these titles, except for Forza, have released on Playstation for decades lol

xbox fans rather play games on game pass then pay full price for games that why xbox had no choice but to give up and embrace full third party.

@LogicStrikesAgain sony gets 30% of that xbox money..

I'm gonna cash in on gamepass while it lasts

@BAMozzy now let’s take away all those who stacked up for years for way cheaper using old methods that were available and all those who brag about using Microsoft rewards points or whatever they’re called and suddenly that number drops significantly

@BAMozzy have to remember that many dont pay that much a month too. Mine was £100 for 3 years with the gold upgrade trick and lots get it free every month with MS rewards

End of the day MS is a Publisher now. They have to be with the amount of studios they own even if Gamepass wasn't a thing. The console wars are over and Spencer pretty much admitted they lost so it makes little sense to not release on PS5 now just like Sony has little reason to not support Xbox with games like Helldivers 2.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare brand identity is a console war I suppose. Not sure why people are ashamed to support it. All brands are in competition with each other for profit corporations. It’s the same for every other industry I.e automotive. Except in other industries, companies don’t give away IP without some type of mutual deal. But MS with each passing day is truly just a publisher which they haven’t directly said.

MS might as well just rename Xbox to Xbox Publishing as they will continue to acquire in the future I’m certain. As they put everything on all the platforms this will allow for them to acquire more. Xbox as a unique platform is gone. But MS still has its true winner which is windows, so Xbox hardware will likely just be the cheapest entry for a console/PC. Which could prove very popular if they keep the design bespoke and powerful for the money one pays. Either way I still want good competition. I hope that the Japanese brands retain almost all of their IPs and don’t put them on other consoles. PCs don’t count as they don’t compete with consoles. Young lads and their families still buy PlayStations. When that lad is over 18 and gets his first real job then a PC becomes a reality.

Bit of a weird one. We were keeping Mincraft and Call of Duty. So never porting. And they have billions to recoup from their take over anyway. I have forza 4 on steam deck so know I don't need another map of icons in my life, the rest will be bargain bin anyway. There's no Mass Effect moments there for me. Bough a 360 for it. 😁

Yes, after 100 $ billions worth of acquisitions you get top selling game franchises to put your companys sticker on them. Infinite money with zero identity at play.

I don't get why people still support Microsoft, knowing how bad they are.

GTA V still on table... unbelievable. It really must be "more copies you buy, more you win".

@LogicStrikesAgain I agree. Reading this list and the only game that was an xbox exclusive was forza horizon 5. You could argue maybe Indiana Jones was for a short while but that's about it. Every other title have always been multiformat. PS trying to rattle the cage again albeit a bit more gently.

@Hylian-Likely how is it embarrassing exactly? The only real xbox exclusive there is forza horizon 5. We've got the spiderman games,the god of war games,astrobot,uncharted and god knows how many other "bangers" as the cool kids call them. OK some of these have been ported to the PC but Microsoft had had to start bringing their games to the ps5 to ensure their future is much more stable. That's embarrassing if that's even the right description to use..

Microsoft and Sony make little to no money on hardware. Microsoft making 70% on software sales for PS5 releases will definitely make Sony pay attention.

It's refreshing to see that hard work and commitment to the things they love got Microsoft this far.

Didn’t everyone know this already?

It’s always about the line going up.

MS wouldn’t port their games if it wasn’t a money maker for them. People aren’t switching consoles at a large rate to go get Gamepass.

It works for both sides.

While this looks kind of funny, it mostly just highlights that very few games were released in this quarter. Expedition 33 was one of the notable games and I’m assuming that isn’t included in Circana data(Circana only gets digital sales data from companies signed up to the agreement, mostly big companies).

Just like FH5 being the best selling game of the year is interesting, but with 3m sales being the best it just highlights that no big games released this year. Big games, like Elden Rings and God of Wars etc, easily sell 3m+ in their first few days.

You mean how it would have been without them buying Bethesda and ABK, apart from Horizon those games would have been on playstation anyway and charted exactly the same.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare this. $ony started losing their way at the end of the ps4 era (great gen btw), and when the ps5 gen started, they just went off the rails imo

M$ is playing chess, not checkers.
And NO i’m not “rooting” for M$ or whatever a fanboy might think, im just speaking on the state of the industry. i want all brands to be great so we can have great games, but $ony is too comfortable

I wonder how many of those Bethesda games might not have released on Xbox due to some timed-exclusivity deal, if Microsoft hadn't bought them. 😁

Good thing everyone gets to play these games.

The only fact that i got from this list is the majority of people in the US loves AAA games, yearly sport games, and one "indie" game.

My main takeaway: The 2.5B for Mojang in 2014 and the 7.5B for Zenimax in 2020 were very well invested, the 69B for ABK in 2022 less so.

Just goes to show the absolute state of PlayStation first party gaming right now.

All it shows is that Microsoft bought some publishers. It’s only Forza that wasn’t originally multiplat.

@Hylian-Likely OK brother from another mother 👍

Considering the magnitude and nature of their acquisitions, it's not eye-opening to see so much Microsoft on there at all. The fact that Forza Horizon 5 tops the list however, despite being several years old and priced like a new game, does indicate that there was a significant gap in the PS5 catalogue. This should probably give Sony some pause in the sense that they missed an opportunity to address that themselves.

Beyond that, the biggest surprise for me is the lack of EA titles in that top 10. Long may it continue.

@Northern_munkey To be fair Indy was never meant to be on PS5, we know for a fact MS cancelled the PS5 version early on.

"From Microsoft"

Minecraft - an existing game they bought
Doom - an existing game they bought
COD - an existing game they bought
Oblivion - see above and literally on PS3
Indiana Jones - was a multiplatform deal
before acquisition
Forza Horizon 5 - finally something they created

Let's be honest, for the most part, this is just Microsoft buying things to put their branding on

@DennisReynolds but that means it was on PS5 before Microsoft took over, so it would have been on PS5 with or without Xbox

@carlos82 Yup agreed, "just slap a X logo on it" has become their slogan.

@AdamNovice At very least too much to be allowed to be a closed ecosystemsystem platform holder.

4 of the 6 games would have traditionally been on playstation platforms anyway, so all this really shows is how aggressive, greedy and irresponsible Microsoft have been, buying up all these developers and publishers.

You could argue that they've actually just still taken a number of games away from the platform, by either blocking Playstation versions, closing talented studios or cancelling interesting projects that would have come out on multiple platforms originally.

My concern is that future Sony could become valve. If every title goes multiplatform does Sony need to invest as much money in making it’s own titles, especially given the high risk and huge costs of such investments. Why not let third parties take those risks and just pocket the guaranteed 30% cut on everything sold on the platform?

I hope Sony continue to invest in their studios and make the quality single player experiences they’re known for. With Microsoft out of the picture, I’m not sure I see a huge incentive for them to continue to do so, at least on the scale they have been in the past.

Only actual MS game is FH5.

As is usual Microsoft bought their way into the market.

very surprising to see that after only buying half the gaming industry for 80 billion dollar, MS managed to become the biggest game publisher. Also very surprising to see that if You sell on more platforms You make more money. The big gaming platforms have been all wrong all the time, there is no benefit in exclusives. It is a myth that exclusives attract customers to Your platform. It is also a myth that games developed for a single platform better exploit the features of a platform. All games should just be multi platform, that will drive innovation and increase profits. /s

OK, but this is looked only one-sided. If sony ports some titels to Xbox those will go sky-high too. Why? Well the people from one of the ecosystems suddnely get good games while waiting for the new releases. Not sure where the news here is to be honest.
What would have happened if MS was the winning party in terns of consoles and Sony ported God of war, uncharted, Horizon, Ghost of tsushima , etc? Same thing.

@Neither_scene I don't think there's any real need for concern. Sony knows they need their big first-party releases to continue to attract people to their platform. The situation on PC is not really comparable, since Sony needs to give people reasons to buy into each new generation. They have an advantage due the enormous back catalogue that people can take from one generation to the next, but that alone is not enough. I'm sure Sony understands that.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare not sure about "XBox". Most of the "Microsoft" seems like Bethesda and Activision Blizzard with a Microsoft logo attached. Franchises that were from those publishers in the past and have always been on PlayStation. I guess those times are over as well. Well see how many Microsoft shuts down. Forza, Call of Duty and Minecraft will continue. Don't think even Elder Scroll or Doom can escape the Microsoft axe. Sad times. Hope I'm wrong.

@Old-Red if you can't beat 'em, join them - and then beat them at their own game

@get2sammyb You already know their response is going to be along the lines of "actually release more 1st party games" when they already know they are on their way.

@Dodoo
"As is usual Microsoft bought their way into the market."

As did Sony - remember they had zero studios when they launched PS.

@ElectricWizard Yes at launch of the playstation 1.... you know back in 1994, how is that even comparable?

@Oram77
Because Sony also "bought their way into the market".

The passing of time doesn't change that.

@Shaun2018098 @Andy22385 Of course there are some that pay 'less' or have managed to stack a deal for a few years so barely pay, but that is also why I chose $10. All those Ultimate Subscribers on console are paying Double that which balances out someone getting it free that month or two people only paying $5.

Point is, $350m is a very conservative estimate and MS state it brings in 'more' than that a month. It was more to illustrate that huge sum of money every MONTH coming in to MS so they can keep making games. If a game costs 100m to make, they can effectively make 3.5 games a month, yet only give one away every couple of montths - its still sold too btw so it still gets revenue from Sales.

The fact that MS are choosing to sell on PS is no different to Sony expanding to PC. Microsoft already release on PC and have their OWN PC platform to support - unlike Sony who release on 3rd Party PC platforms. Therefore the only 3rd Party 'hardware' MS can target is Playstation and Switch for additional revenue.

FH5 will likely sell more than FH3 did (before Game Pass hit 'sales' because it will sell more on PS5 alone. If FH3 was 'profitable' on Xbox, just think ow much more that IP has generated now, how much larger its Community is, how much 'growth' that IP has shown.

At the end of the day, you are still buying Microsoft products and spending your time in their games - dominating both 'Sales' and 'engagement' metrics on a Sony platform - yes Sony get money from that but the narrative of Xbox has 'no games' is now Xbox games dominate on Sony's platform, where are Sony's games?

@ElectricWizard But it does though, why didn't MS buy ABK at the launch of the original Xbox, not half through their 4 fourth console generation?

@Oram77
Sony were the big fish and opened their huge corporate wallet and put the squeeze on Nintendo and Sega (contributing to their downfall).

You don't get to now cry about it because the next big fish is splashing the cash.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare @Vaako007

not that I support console wars, but I do like brand identity

Not sure why people are ashamed to support it. All brands are in competition with each other for profit corporations

"Brand identity" and "fanboyism" are irrational and only lead to pointless arguments. "Brand identity" is basically the cause of the "console wars".

"You prefer the things you own because you rationalize your past choices to protect your sense of self.
The Internet changed the way people argue.

Usually, these arguments are between men, because men will defend their ego no matter how slight the insult. These are also usually about geeky things that cost lots of money, because these battles take place on the Internet where tech-savvy people get rowdy, and the more expensive a purchase, the greater the loyalty to it.

Once a person is branded, they will defend their brand by finding flaws in the alternative choice and pointing out benefits in their own.There are a number of cognitive biases which converge to create this behavior."

You can read more about it here: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/19/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty/

@ElectricWizard No tears are being shed, I'm actually against Sony/MS buying anymore studios anyways.

@Oram77
Agreed 👍

Thank you MS and Xbox!

LOL. "outselling heavy hitters like Assassin's Creed Shadows". The game is horrible that is not a hard accomplishment.

Cool .yeah microsoft is doing they're thing for they're ports for ps5 games.Word up son

@KonstantTrouble The game's quality is not really relevant in this discussion, only its commercial performance, which seems to be very successful. So yeah, it is an accomplishment.

• Buys a lot of publishers
• Suddenly half of the best selling games in another platform are from your company
• Shocked Pikachu face

@johnedwin that's bs though 🤣 and its more likely to do with spending 70billion on Activision etc gamepass as been around years without multiplat it's only after the big 70 billion spends they did it

Wow all the Microsoft purchased these companies blah blah blah , yes they did and it just shows that the purchaes were gd business , if bungee was dominating the charts would you all be saying well its a company that Sony brought so its doesnt count ? ? No it would be sony knew what they were doing in buying them

Oh and by the way if bungie were dominating the charts I'd be saying gd on em

I think most gamers are over looking the fact that Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in releasing Triple A Games anymore they aren't very profitable. Microsoft and Sony are looking at the Netflix subscription model and have been for quite sometime.
Which means more crappy games on a subscription service, just like Netflix.
This is why your getting excusive ports on both consoles the question is who will win the base platform for the subscription.

@Martsmall People who are using that as an argument to say it somehow "doesn't count" are silly and should be ignored, however there's no denying that those large, multi-studio publisher acquisitions are the reason why Microsoft is able to dominate those charts. None of the other platform holders have ever outright acquired a publisher, Microsoft has done it twice, with one of them being one of the largest third-party publishers in the history of our medium. Them going on to dominate charts is an expected outcome from this, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

For what it's worth, I feel the Zenimax acquisition was excellent business for MS, especially compared to the Bungie deal in terms of value.

@DennisReynolds its not about owning studios its about owning Intellectual property and franchises. Like when Netflix purchased the rights to stream Friends on its subscripting platform it cost them over 100 million for a few years rights.
This is what we are witnessing, the race of Microsoft and Sony grabbing as much IP and franchise in order to win.
And in Disney's case the question has been brought up with owning Star wars IP, how long can you pump out movies and shows till franchise fatigue sets in.
So, as of right now... Yes the console wars are over and good riddance it was stupid to began with not like Saga and SNES days.
But now we are entering a new era the race for Digital IP ownership and subscription base streaming.

@BAMozzy Minecraft was third party and selling millions on PlayStation before Xbox bought it so no surprise it’s still selling well. And 3 of the others all belong to series that were third party and selling millions on PlayStation before Xbox bought them so again no surprise to see them still selling well on PlayStation

Its worth remembering that this data is from the USA and some of the titles on that list are likely reflective of that. It would be interesting to see the data looks when compared to other sales regions.

@Oprahs_cellulite What "crappy" games have been released on Gamepass and Plus? Also Sony are so into subscriptions they don't do day 1 1st party games on it and only do a day 1 indie once in a blue moon, even Helldivers 2 has yet to touch Plus.

@Oprahs_cellulite

I think most gamers are over looking the fact that Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in releasing Triple A Games anymore they aren't very profitable. Microsoft and Sony are looking at the Netflix subscription model and have been for quite sometime.
Which means more crappy games on a subscription service, just like Netflix.
This is why your getting excusive ports on both consoles the question is who will win the base platform for the subscription.

Interesting point, but I don't think I fully agree with the statement. I would say "Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in funding console exclusive triple-A single player games" if it's too risky. For the moment they both fund and publish triple-A single player games, you don't need to look far into the past to find examples on both ends (Indiana Jones, Doom The Dark Ages, Death Stranding 2, Stellar Blade). But they would prefer to invest money/resources in triple-A live-service online games which might result in bigger profits. I guess the difference is that Microsoft now owns many smaller double-A studios (Obsidian, Compulsion, Doyble Fine, etc.) who can create smaller games in a shorter time, while Sony only has 2 or so and is additionally relying on third-party studios.

@Shaun2018098 Irrelevant - Minecraft and ALL the updates for over a Decade now have been owned, published and funded by Microsoft. These IP's are Microsoft Owned IP's and Microsoft funded their development, greenlit these projects etc.

It doesn't matter if 'Doom' was on PS in the past, Doom the Dark Ages was entirely funded by MS and Published by them, they OWN Doom. Since Sony bought Bungie, Destiny is a Playstation owned IP as is Marathon that had NO history on PS hardware.

They 'could' have decided NOT to release on Playstation and expected Playstation gamers who want to play Doom or Minecraft or Oblivion (which was Exclusive on Xbox for some time) to buy their Hardware or 'miss out'. However, you are still buying a Microsoft Product, spending money on their games and spending your time in their titles regardless of the 'box' you choose to play on. Its still a Microsoft owned and Published game whether you 'like' the situation or not. Tomb Raider is not a Square Enix game anymore, Destiny is not an Activision title anymore - Doom , Minecraft, Oblivion, CoD etc - these are Microsoft owned IP's made by MS owned Studios and funded by MS's money.

@ElectricWizard true that, I’m just bitter 😅

@Old-Red Aside from Tango, what talented studios did Microsoft close? Arcane Austin was a husk of its former self by the time Redfall released, Roundhouse Studios and The Initiative didn't release anything, and Alpha Dog Games was a mobile game dev.

Tango Gameworks is the only studio that Microsoft closed for no good reason, but even they are still alive and well with Krafton, so no one is missing out on their games.

@gaston I mean, that's not too far from what Sony thinks, so...

@BAMozzy Is that concurrent subscribers or lifetime? Is that consistent or a peak? Huge difference. If Microsoft aren't touting it, then I question how amazing the numbers truly are. I have a hard time thinking GP alone nets them $4.2b annually. But maybe I'm out of the loop on Xbox's financials.

$350mm/month sounds great. But they are also paying millions to every dev who has a game on the service. Even if it's a fat, one time check, those checks are plentiful and they are eating into that pot of gold, no doubt.

Plus, if they had so much cash around from GP subs that they could afford to keep studios afloat, as you claim they have, then they sure as ***** wouldn't be shuttering so many studios and laying off so many employees.

And let's face it: the reality is, if GP's model was such a straightforward money maker, everyone in the business would be offering a 1:1 copy of the service. Which they are not. Truth is, gussied up numbers or not, they have undoubtedly left money on the table by putting big $70 straight into the service.

(I'm letting it slide that you assume 35mm subscribers are all paying the full $10/month rate when offers like a 12 month sub cost $75 and the service offers countless promotions to bring that rate far below $10/month, as I think it probably safely accounts for those subscribers who pay for the higher tiers of service.)

@TrollOfWar I don't think there’s anything wrong with a little bit of brand identity. That’s why some of us are here. We like Playstation. Not all people who prefer a brand are automatically fanboys. If people all over the world can go crazy over their favorite sports teams then i’m fine with a little bit of harmless brand support.

I agree though, some fanboys (from both sides) can be very immature and annoying. But i just tend to focus on the people here who do have well thought out opinions on the industry, in stead of focusing on fanboys’ biased takes and truncated views.

@Oprahs_cellulite "I think most gamers are over looking the fact that Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in releasing Triple A Games anymore they aren't very profitable."

Pretty sure that's not a fact.

Exclusives sell consoles. Even if, unlike Nintendo gamers, most ps gamers don't buy first party games, they are a good reason to justify their purchase. It's not about making huge profits from the AAA games themselves, but bringing enough people to your platform. Same with hardware.
(btw this also not a fact, just my opinion)

The only Microsoft port I've bought until now is Hi Fi Rush. I was going to buy Oblivion Remastered but i found out that the game is filled with crashes, stutters and horrible performance issues. Not gonna give my money to Microsoft for doing this half assed remaster. Thought about getting Age of Mythology Retold but apparently this game also has technical issues. I wanted to pick up Doom The Dark Ages but I'm aware that performance on both PS5 consoles are worse than the performance on Xbox Series X and i don't have a TV with VRR support, so...

If Microsoft keeps doing these ***** ports, then I'll skip all of their games

I'm waiting to see if Gears will run fine on PS5 because i love this franchise, but I'm sure as hell won't be pre ordering this game

@BAMozzy Gamepass isnt the money maker as you it to be. And they would have made bank of they sold COD normally every year people buy it anyway.

@BAMozzy Lets say it in a way you understand Microsoft bought most their big ips they didnt develop them.

@Dodoo Its a American company they only do hostile takeover. Or they try to kill of the competition with dirty tactics.

The only REAL homegrown xbox game there is Forza. The others are a logical result of Microsoft buying out the biggest third party publishers in the industry.

The reason this makes Sony look bad is because of their own fault too with their disastrous live service push and VERY LACKING first party output.

This generation has been pretty tepid. Covid didn't help obviously but at what point does that stop being an excuse? It's been five years already.

@johnedwin please name me these games that would be on this list that would have been made instead? people keep saying this, but i don't see any one naming games that would actually sell to be on this list.

Aside from Forza Horizon 5, I'm seeing games in this top 10 list that all would've come to PlayStation anyway had Microsoft not made the fairly unprecedented move of purchasing two of the largest publishers in the games industry.

@arsmolinarc but its a valid one , its one of the biggest what if's in gaming imo, if we weren't 2-3 years behind where would we be right now? i'd still say sony handled a difficult situation the best they could. we still have ghosts coming this fall which looks amazing imo, they invested in gaming around the world including stellar blade , phantom blade zero , and lost soul aside. i know their new approach involves not revealing games too early but it would be nice to have some kind of updates on games currently being worked on.

@LogicStrikesAgain Unfortunately the fanboys (on both sides) are often the loudest vocal minorities, thinking that their views and opinions represent an entire player base and they don't tolerate opposing opinions. They make gaming communities more intimidating.

It's amazing. Either through acquisition or development there's no denying that MS and its umbrella of studios and iP have made and released some proper bangers lately and more continuing to come.
And somehow ponies still complain and blame MS - even when they get to enjoy those games on their PS.
All I'll say is, for honor!! Sees you all in a few weeks when team Green joins Helldivers .

@MFTWrecks First off, it is concurrent Subs and growing - not as much as they predicted/hoped but still growing in concurrent Subs. Whether some do leave or not, they are 'replaced' by new Subscribers to keep over 35m Subscribers in their ecosystem.

That $4.2bn is 'net' btw before you consider what money is spent out on Games. Yes they do pay money to 3rd Party - but again with 350m, their Studios aren't likely to be costing 10m a month to develop their game - they may cost maybe 100m or so over 5yrs+ which equates to less than 2m a 'month', including all the 'external' costs, paying voice actors, hiring Voice recording studios etc. Its not as if they are adding the latest AAA 3rd Party Developed games day/date which would cost MS 'millions', but mostly indies which only cost upto 100k to make and some 'AA' games from smaller studios with 'little/no' Marketing budget for their game to 'compete' with AAA.

Some Publishers want to 'boost' their numbers and hope to get more on board early in the game than others and some won't put their game in a Sub service at all - but regardless, with that much money coming in, You can give each studio 4m per month to keep making games so they effectively are 'paid' for by Game Pass, Sales of them and all the 'extra' Content that releases will of course be 'Profit'. That still leaves a massive chunk of cash to 'buy' games that month for Game Pass and of course still earn money from ALL those that still BUY games (especially those not on Game Pass), and content through their Store. You don't Sub 1month to play games like CoD, Oblivion, FH5, Sea of Thieves etc, these are games people play for months and months.

Its not a 'straightforward' money maker - you have to balance your Subscription Revenue with all the Costs and that includes ensuring a good variety of 3rd Party too. When MS started, they only had 5 Studios, but Game Pass has grown and Grown - so have their Studios in number. They have a DIFFERENT model to Sony, one more Service driven than Sony's Sales. MS are more about how many people use their Products/services in both Business and Leisure activities, Sony are more about how many units they've shipped. That too will make it 'risky' for others to do but Ubisoft and EA do with certain tiers of their Subscription services so they must believe that selling isn't the ONLY option to get revenue in - just like Game Pass Subscribers still spend money on extra Content, cosmetics, DLC etc - Indiana Jones DLC costs money whether you played the game 'free' via Game Pass or not, Same with Doom and Starfield. It gets them in 'their' ecosystem spending their time and money! It's not just limited to their Console either.

As for the studio closures, in case you hadn't noticed, that's happened Globally across the entire industry - Sony closed Savage Games after acquiring them in August 2022, cancelled numerous games and lost about 10% of their workforce. MS has lost a bit more, but also Expanded the most and needed to 'reorganise/restructure/integrate' 3 separate companies into 1 'functional' and more efficient company - you don't need 3 separate Publishing divisions and ALL the marketing/PR and HR etc that each has.

@Flaming_Kaiser They still made 'Bank' as you put it with Call of Duty - despite it being on Game Pass because believe it or not, it still SOLD very well and whilst BO6 maybe 'Free', the Battle Pass, Cosmetics and Premium Rewards from Events aren't free - the place where the 'money' is made now. Arguably, its got more people in and spending money on those extras where they get 100% from each sale and 70% from every Playstation or Steam gamer that bought the game and all those extras that fill the game today...

Whether they bought the IP's or NOT, they also bought the Studios that created them, The only difference is that the 'Publisher' who released the games before are now owned by MS but the Studios behind those IP's are also now MS owned - just like Sony has the Studio behind Halo, Destiny, Marathon despite only one of those games ever being associated with or releasing on Playstation, although was an Activision Game. I believe Sony/Insomniac own Sunset Overdrive although Microsoft own/owned the Publishing Rights but Destiny is a Sony Game and own the Creators behind Destiny. The only reason they don't own Crash is because they only bought the Studio who created it, not the 'Publisher' who owned the rights to it as many devs gave up their rights to get published or were owned by the publisher anyway. Creators of CoD left that IP years ago, Activision hasn't 'managed' its IP's or Studio's very well at all but I digress...

It doesn't matter who 'published' and/or owned the IP's, what matters is the Studio's behind those, the creators of. If Sony doesn't buy IP's, although I'm sure they've acquired them through Publishing deals (they keep the IP whilst the dev gets their creation published) which may help when Sony decides they'll add to their Studio collection, but they also acquired Destiny!! MLB is a licenced property, like Spider-Man but Destiny is a Sony game now.

Its not as if Doom was made by some MS studio created just to make Doom from now on - like they did with Halo and Gears when Bungie/Epic stopped making them for MS and part of Bungie going independent was making two more Halo games (ODST/Reach) and give MS everything Halo - inc the rights. They weren't independent for long as Activision, the Publisher they'd partnered with for Destiny, bought them and now its a Sony game so why aren't these any different??

@BAMozzy 350m a month is excessive to me. Obviously the people paying £3 a month is balanced by some paying £15. But most people shop about. Can easily find 12 month codes for £60 with a simple Google. You're forgetting millions are on the gamepass core too for £40 a year too. Which are included in the numbers (and thats why they said subs have gone up when they haven't really because they added those millions to the GP sub total recently). With the gold conversion, MS rewards, GP Core and 12 month 1/3rd of the price codes all being in the number I'd be surprised if it's half that 350m number.

So Microsoft acquires lots of studios and people are surprised that most of their games are in the top 10

@MFTWrecks they also announced the made 5 billion from gamepass

So they make more money on PS5? Wow how magical.

I think their games are generic third party appeal garbage but that's just me. I find them forgettable and boring, but people enjoy what they enjoy so by all means if people enjoy these types of games, why not.

Or is it audiences are desperate? Heard of their quality and finally get to experience them?

I have all consoles and still found them uninteresting personally.

Other then Hi Fi Rush or South of Midnight, Forza Horizon 1 or 2 didn't appeal to me at all. I mean when NFS Unbound is 'ok' but has a structure problem or any other problems (but fair artstyle and other things it was willing to risk) and The Crew. Yeah FH as competition besides TD Solar Crown I mean. What competition is there really. XD That and Tokyo Extreme Racer revival is just more of the highway racing then the drift sub series.

That or whatever that other 3rd party drift open world racing game is I forget if it's still coming along?

State of Decay would benefit on PS5 as I think it has some appeal there, who knows if 3 goes to PS5 maybe at some point.

Indy was..... pretty standard. Came later to PS5 of course.

Doom was fair. It's always third party as well.

COD always sells enough so not question there. But it's always third party anyway.

Age of Empires 2 Definitive edition is there, not 4.

Obilvion is what it is, a remaster of a game that I think was on PS3 not just 360/PC, but may be worth experiencing again. Better than Skyrim again. Might as well.

Not Fallout 3 or New Vegas but still.

I don't see anything appealing here really. Just safe games, with safe ideas/boring locations, gameplay, themes and more, besides a fair remaster of a game I respect but had no interest in anyway.

What a weird headlight to go with Push Square team? XD I learned nothing.

Even if MS is (big if) a publisher, nothing has changed for Xbox users, still getting great games on GP and we can still buy games if we want. Only seems to be a problem on other platforms. If you have an Xbox there really are no complaints.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare been saying for ages. Microsoft are doing much better than people give credit for (sure they spent all the money on the developers). But why would you buy 6 Microsoft games on playstation for full whack (they aren't the cheapest) when for that price you could buy an Xbox machine and have access to so much more. Sony have fallen off the wagon not producing enough this round. Next round of consoles I'll likely not bother other than Nintendo. Finally just buy a decent PC when these consoles aren't supported anymore.. and I think they will be for some time yet. Lol still got PS4 games coming out now.

@Andy22385 I was talking in Dollars by the way and whilst there are some that only pay a few dollars for Game Pass Core or got some special stacked deals, most of those loopholes are closed now - you don't get a year for upgrading. On Xbox, it costs $20 for Ultimate which is more than double the amount for Core and why I decided to use just $10 - more to illustrate than give accurate or precise figures. MS announced over 35m Subscribers and so if you take an 'average' of just $10, that's $350m - some are paying $20 which offsets some that may only pay $5 a month for core. Its more about illustrating how 35m+ people every month paying a 'relatively small' amount adds up to a Sizeable income - that equated to about $4.2bn a year - but has now grown to nearly 5bn since they last reported they had 35m Subscribers.

MS themselves has stated they got 4.2bn a year Net, where as that 350m would be Gross. MS today has come out and said Game Pass is generating nearly $5bn a year or about $420m a month...

@naruball Sure, that maybe true ten years ago when the 360 and PS3 were around. But things have changed, most gamers aren't drawn to exclusives games anymore in order to decide what console to buy... but to their digital game library they own on that said console.
Which is why we are see less and less console exclusives being made.

@BAMozzy well if you say so its strange they never shout how much profit they make with Gamepass though. You made my own point they need to make the game worse with terrible skins to make money. Let's be real they would have sold all the copies if it was in the store. And with payed online gameplay they would have made more.

@Flaming_Kaiser How can you say they don't announce it when they have now stated they make nearly 5bn a year Net from Game Pass. Sales of those 'same' games still have money coming in too combining with the Subs and sales of all the 'extra' content bought for those games - many of whom wouldn't have purchased 'extras' because they wouldn't have bought the game or at least not until its on sale years later and all that seasonal content is now not available to buy, not spending money on Cosmetics as the games 'life' is over.

Those Skins and Battle Pass system were introduced under Bobby Koticks Management, under Activision and those 'terrible' skins as you put it is what pays for all the FREE Content (maps, weapons, modes, events etc etc) that other games (and Call of Duty) sell as post launch DLC.

Black Ops 3 had 4 DLC packs - each with 4 maps and a Zombie Map and then released a Zombies only pack - you either bought or missed out. Some of the most Iconic Maps (both MP and Zombies) were only available as DLC. Now EVERY extra Map (MP or Zombies), weapon, modes, events etc are FREE because they sell MTX to fund all seasonal content and Warzone too.

You get a LOT more Free these days than you would have 6yrs ago. They may run Warzone and Seasonal content more like a F2P game but that just means you don't need to spend money at all. That was the system BEFORE Microsoft agreed to purchase, let alone before they took over and the 'two' releases they have Published (as owners) were both greenlit and built with Activisions 'management' and funding method.

Everyone on a Console has to pay to play online - even on Xbox. You need at least Game Pass Core/PS+ Essential to play Black Ops 6 and to play Black Ops 6 all year on PS5 vs Game Pass on Xbox, its cheaper on PS5 and that includes the annual sub fee.

Its cheaper on Xbox to Buy CoD and pay for Game Pass Core for a year than spend $20 a month for 12 months and then 'lose' access if you stop paying $20 - of course, if you play other games too via Game Pass, the more value you get from your Sub fee as a consumer, and from MS's perspective, its still regular income contributing to that $5bn a year just from GP

Regardless of what you think about GP, MS themselves are seeing increased 'revenue' from their gaming division in every area - inc Sub services and software sales - only Hardware has declined - which makes sense as Xbox is everywhere, not just their OWN hardware...

If they get you to play via Game Pass (as opposed to Steam or PS), they get 100% of all revenue - inc on all the Cosmetic MTX sales as they are sold through their Store so make 'more' money from each individual bundle sold, from each player who spends money on their Platforms. They may lose the 70% 'game' sale on PS5 but gain from an extra Subscriber and all the money they spend through their store. Every game these days - inc Single Player games - has DLC or some Post release content - none of that is 'free' with Game Pass so they get 100% of the revenue of ALL sales of their Content, 30% from all 3rd Party Published content and the Sub Fee for GPU all contributing to MS's Profits and everyone, regardless of Hardware is contributing to MS's profits and MAU's by spending time/money in a MS product or Service!

@Questionable_Duck Not sure we know what Sony really thinks. Maybe Sony just follows MS and just looks at the player count: "if we sell on more platforms, put the games on subscription services, the player count goes up, how could we be that wrong all the time, thinking that exclusives will driver players to our platform and will increase profits on the long run", or Sony rather thinks that a fair amount of exclusives is needed to actually give consumers an incentive to move to playstation, but also sees the importance to make some advertisement on competing platforms for their titles in the form of playable, purchasable ports rather than just videos. And moreover sees the importance of multiplayer / live service titles to be on as many platforms as possible, because otherwise it will be very hard to compete with similar titles which are on more platforms in this very competitive space.

Tbf Forza is the only original MS ip in the list, and maybe Indiana Jones.

Just confirms how the live service push ***** up the release pipeline. PS5 could've had at least 3-4 more exclusives at this point if they stuck to what worked last gen.