Horizon Online Snaffles Bungie's Design Lead As Guerrilla Builds All-Star Team Around Live Service PS5 Game

I hope its good and not another concord. Live service games have to be really,really good and the inevitable monetisation has to be acceptable to the players especially if its not f2p. I don't hate the live service model but like I said it's got to be very good and just slapping the horizon brand all over it won't be enough if the actual game is bland.

As long as Hermen is in charge of PS Studios, the Horizon IP will be pushed, regardless of its appeal.

Horizon has massive appeal and has sold really well so hopefully there's enough attention on this live service game to make it successful.

Trouble is, if this... game... doesn't hit the mark (and there's a high chance of that), it will impact the dev, and don't want to see that.
Horizon is one of Sony's IP's that I really like, I'd hate for Guerilla to end up being stripped down or worse, with heavy impact on future Horizon SP games...

I'd love to see the sales of Horizon when you strip away all the pack-in free copies that were given away with hardware purchases.

I genuinely wish I cared, but I just don't anymore. I've basically lost all faith in Sony's ability to deliver this generation. :/

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare

have a look at the number of sales of HFW compared to HZD

It officially sold 8.4m copies in 14 months. That’s a massive number, regardless of it doing slightly worse than Zero Dawn(in units, not revenue). 8.4m is more than any of the Greek God of War Games, it’s more than the first 3 Uncharted games. It’s more than every game in some series, that people still clamour for on the internet, ever managed: Resistance, Killzone, Twisted Metal, Socom, Gravity Rush(probably every Japan Studio Game ever), Jak and Daxter(it’s more than the entire trilogy combined actually), Infamous, Ratchet and Clank etc. etc.

Oh, yeah, it’s more than Bloodborne(7.6m in 7 years, having been available for $10 for years) and Days Gone too.

I genuinely think this game could be good. When I played HFW I remember some cut away dialogue in one of the villages talking about the clan wars. With multiple clans building up their respective village and fighting other clans over resources etc, with emergent gameplay during battle with unpredictable involvement of machines (e.g. a thunderjaw or tremortusk randomly stumbling across the fight and causing chaos requiring you to make choices over whether to run, take advantage of the distraction to take out other players etc), and most likely the ability to capture and harness powerful machines to support you in battle - I think it has alot of potential to be really good.

Also no doubt a big component of the game will be to team up with other players to take out machines to gather valuable resources to upgrade weapons, armour, gain special abilities etc. It all seems quite logical for a live service game. And I can see how special machines with unique resources and characteristics will be dropped into the game to keep things interesting

Personal preference would be to keep all the space mumbo jumbo out of it though. I MUCH prefer the more grounded stories the original games were telling

I’d actually be more interested in a Monster Hunter Style game than the third Horizon game. I think it could be brilliant.

@themightyant exactly. There have been far more God of War games that sold far less. GoW didn't pull huge numbers until the reboot on ps4.

@get2sammyb Usually the impact doesn't stop at that respective team... not to mention the effect on the IP itself if one title fails...
But I guess we'll see.

I don't think this will flop or be a huge hit. It will simply be something that happens and be of little interest to most.

I suppose that one of the key factors will be if it's free or not. Saying that, I don't see this as something the kids will flock to and I don't see the older demographic being prepared to pay for it either.

Personally, it's disappointing that Guerilla has put so much time, effort and resources into an IP and type of game I have no interest in. The whole world, clothing design and style is so naff. The studio is talented, but essentially dead to me now. I don't think they'll ever make a game I'm interested in again. HFW is the last I'll buy in that franchise, I'm still struggling to get through it 3 years after release.

I’d imagine an online Horizon would be endless chasing of increasing damage numbers with any tactical gameplay from the single-player games gutted in favour of a never-ending grind that just so happens to be sped up using real money. To be fair, you could just have any plot stuff outsourced to ChatGPT and it would be indistinguishable from the quality of the NPC interactions of the other games. I’m sure the chuds could make their sex doll protagonist of their dreams in a character creator even if the lack of any dialogue or emotion would only take it one shade of cardboard below Aloy as a protagonist.

Wtf is a snaffle

@Toot1st it's a cute way of saying steal.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare if I've learned anything from the internet is that people are easily influenced. Definitely more than they realize. Someone says they don't like x game because it has z and the rest simply follow and swear they felt that way all along. We saw it happen too many times and recently with X-men.

@themightyant I‘ve never claimed that the Horizon IP is not successful (it is) and that I don‘t like it (I don’t). I just said that Hermen Hulst pushes it, because he felt in love with his baby; which is a bold claim I must admit, because I can’t look in his head like everyone else.

The danger here is this falling in love with your own product. This can make you blind. Hulst still seems to be (too) powerful, after his Concord debacle he should step down completely imo.

Horizon must be the franchise that gets the most unneeded hate, I persoanlly find both games to be extremely fun, with HFW being one of the best looking games out there!

I love the Horizon games (if hunting robot dinosaurs with a bow is wrong I don’t want to right) but I’ve never been interested in the Monster Hunter games so I’ll pass on Horizon online if that is the formula it follows. I’ll be there for Horizon 3 though.

This will do well IMO. Don't have a great track record for predicting games as what appeals to me is clearly different to the mainstream but the potential idea of this seems unique enough yet compelling enough to capture a chunk of players.

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare There is the narrative that sony only creates horizon games and nothing else.

New sony only makes AAA games, so in that sense there are by definition fewer IPs because less games are created.

This generation: spider man (miles morales + spiderman 2), ratchet&clank, the last of us remaster 1&2 (+ "soon" Intergalactic + cancelled multiplayer adaptation), mlb the show (20-24), gt7, horizon forbidden west+call of the mountain (the lego game is only sony published, not even Sony's idea), god of war ragnarok (+ cancelled multiplayer adaptation by bluepoint), returnal (+"soon" Saros) , ghost of (tsushima remaster + soon Yotei), Demon's Souls remake, Concord (butchered by the community), astro bot, (+ "soon": Marathon, Fairgame$, unannounced "gummy bears" project, unannounced new IP by santa monica, several cancelled projects: new IP by Bend, new IP by London studio now closed).

Sure some IPs have multiple installments, but I guess the cost of modern games requires that assets are re-used i.e. succesful games are followed by a sequel. Then there were quite a few unsuccessful and cancelled projects (not sure whether it is worse than in the past), and maybe You do not like any of these IPs, but is that "few" ?

@Oram77 the hate seems to stem from the Aloy being into girls.

@themightyant "Uncharted? 3 games and 2 spin offs in the first 5 years."

This was a totally different era, a beloved game franchise (still is) and not gaas. Just sayin'

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare

Unless you see the monthly sales trajectory

Yes, this was literally in the leak, they had it on a sales graph with monthly sales data and the point it enters PS Plus is highlighted. The sales were tracking at a normal rate and then flatlined the month before it entered PS Plus. If you search for it you can probably find it but it looks like a lot of these graphics have been scrubbed from a lot of sites.

You know what happens when bungie gets involved... games get cancelled.

I bet this could turn out good but I'm probably not going to be part of the audience for this. I'm not a MH fan so if that's what they are going for then I'm not interested.

The real question though would be can they move MH fans off of MH? More than a few games have tried but from an outsiders perspective it seems like Capcom has a pretty strong stranglehold on that market.

I'm a fan of the first two games but a big part of what made them great was the sci fi story - especially engaging in the first title. Live service doesn't lend itself well in this respect and it's such a monopolized space, any new IP is a risky venture. This will need some new ideas that help it stand out from the crowd as it can't simply rely on returning players as many primarily solo players like myself don't necessarily dip into live service (unless it's Helldivers 2!). I sincerely hope they pull it off.

Edit: the mechanics and graphics are already better than Monster Hunter Wilds for example (although I'm thoroughly enjoying that too).

Good for them, but I only care about Horizon 3. I hope that's coming along nicely as well.

If I’m not mistaken, recent follow up interviews about the shutting down of TLoU Factions 2 was less about it not being a good game or a projected commercial success, rather the studio realized that to do it right would commit them to pouring massive resources into it and would sacrifice their ability to focus on their passion for their single player projects. I can only assume this Horizon MMO will demand the same reallocation of creative and development energies…

I don’t doubt we’ll get a single player Horizon 3, but I can’t help but think that this game will hamper Horizon 3’s development (or any other potential single player projects). Unless Guerrilla Games is somehow better equipped to juggle it than Naughty Dog, who have admitted now that trying to do both live service and new SP games well was not possible.

Either way, I don’t know that I’m interested in the MMO style but I like the IP. I’m trying to keep an open mind.

Must be for another horizon online game because the co-op game should be near to release

I could see it working if done right. I agree with the sentiment that it's probably better than a third Horizon game, since I think the gameplay potential of the IP is mostly played out on a single-player level.

@nessisonett "I’m sure the chuds could make their sex doll protagonist of their dreams in a character creator"

In a Sony-published game? Yeah right.

@AdamNovice Mario Kart stays at the top of the charts regardless of whether it's part of an active bundle deal or not. Let's be real.

Oh boy... here comes another stinker.

@ChrisDeku I'm with you on the Monster Hunter style of game set in the Horizonverse, could even have it set when Humans first started coming out of the creches to explain why its all new and no one is as efficient as Aloy is at taking down the robodinos

I do not like the idea of “live service” games, in particular.

I cannot actually understand how Horizon could function as a “live service”. Perhaps they are trying to go down the route of “co-operative” play, like Monster Hunter? And have no story at all?

But “live service” will always make me think of Concord, and Anthem. Two huge disappointments.

@Retron weren't the bundled PS5/HFW more expensive than the base PS5, by like $50? I'm pretty sure they would count that as a sale since it wasn't technically bundled for free, just at a slightly discounted game price, right? I could be misremembering though so don't quote me on that.
The Horizon games are great but I rank the first as a better game compared to the second. Story was more interesting to me, it seemed predictable in the second game.

The nerve some people have to come to this comment section with a bunch of nonsense, get thoroughly corrected and still keep going. The internet at its best.

On topic: I was late to the party on HFW, just finished it last month, and gosh. How much better this is compared to HZD. Just fixing the inventory management alone made me sink dozens more hours. Best open world I played since Cyberpunk. I'm very excited for Horizon 3 and whatever this online game turn into

@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
You’re not the only one. I absolutely loved HZD as well but was surprisingly bored after the first 5h or so of HFW. And you’re right: The sales for HFW are what, less than half of those for HZD? Millions of consumers clearly agree with our sentiment.

The insane level of push for this franchise is unprecedented for Sony, to my knowledge, and it would be unusual to not see the coincidence that this only started after Guerilla’s former studio head became a big PS boss. It feels adjacent to nepotism.

All this being said, I actually have a fair amount of confidence that this online game could be big—as long as they stay solely focused on making a fun game with an addictive game loop that has an attractive art style. With the talent they have, as long as they avoid other distractions, this feels like it has a good chance to be successful.

@Max_the_German it must have some appeal since its one of their best selling ips

@ChrisDeku according to vgsales days gone sold 8.9 million copies (500 more than HFW) and it didn't even get a sequel.

@EDNoresult Days Gone sold 7.46m copies by 2022 according to the Insomniac leak.

Fobidden West sold 8.4m units in 14 months, that doesn’t include the PC port or anything. It also sold these units at a high average price.

The reasons Days Gone didn’t get a sequel are complex and various. It’s not simply a case of it not selling enough, its sales are quite strong(with some caveats).

Im a huge fan of the series and im very much looking forward to horizon 3. But i have no interest in multiplayer of any game. I think them going wirh a more styleized look with this is a plus. I think it has possibilities but ultimately time will tell.