PS5 Is Now Above PS4 in USA, While Its New-Gen Rival Flounders

Well done by Sony.

I will be one of those new adopters this coming spring, when I join the PS5 army (still enjoying my PS4 and PS3 very much).

March of next year to be exact is when I enlist 😅. Looking forward to it.

I know this has already been said by others, but I think Microsoft should get out of the business of selling consoles. With the purchases of Bethesda, Activision, Obsidian, Double Fine, Ninja Theory, etc., — plus their own first-party games — they would be the biggest third-party publisher in gaming. They would make a whole lot more money putting all of their games on PC, Switch, and PlayStation — and save a whole lot of manufacturing costs — by not having their own dedicated machine.

Unfortunately, I think we’re still a console generation or two from that happening, unless the next Xbox tanks as badly as the Dreamcast did for Sega. That, and the fact that they have money to burn, may still keep them in the console race.

(I just want Elder Scrolls VI on PS5, dammit! 🤣)

I've said it many times this Gen but i reckon come next gen MS will go 3rd party and turn the Xbox brand into a console designed for Gamepass and other services but not something you buy games on. Gamepass will become an app on your TV so you can stream games and MS will strike a deal with Sony and Nintendo about bringing Gamepass and MS library of 1st party games over to them. MS aren't leaving the gaming space far from it but i don't think their future is Xbox.

Xbox is crap, I'm not being a fanboy, I say that as someone who owned both PS5 and a Series X (and also a Switch)

@Member_the_game shouldve gave me that series X then

XBO sales wasn't that great, imagine how 11% less might be. Why don't they leave the hardware production line of work I wonder 🤔

@nomither6

I sold it to gullible friend who didn't know any better.

I took a big loss letting it go for £250 but I figured that was better than it just allowing it to gathering dust. Also I know he'll take good care of it,

I'm not completely heartless and would never have seen it go out onto the streets having to sleep rough

Microsoft should abandon the hardware business, and transform itself as a giant publisher.

@luke88

I think a lot of people (myself included) just like to flex and be able to tell people they own the next big thing.

On a serious note though, it is literally the best console I've ever owned, much faster load times, haptic feedback controls etc, my only gripe is the fact were still getting cross gen game releases which kind of validates your point about not needing to upgrade.

In my opinion Cross Gen releases should have stopped after roughly 6 months which would given people the incentive to upgrade.

@luke88 that's such a disingenuous thing to say, it's laughable. You're on PushSquare dude. You know why people buy PS5s. I mean I get trying to sound sarcastic or condescending online, but you saying you have "no idea" is such b.s. I can smell it from here.

Don't worry I'm sure people will rush to tell us Microsoft don't care about Hardware sales 🫢

Loving my PS5 (sorry @luke88 ) but having MS not longer in the race as a competitor with hardware does raise some interesting questions for me as to where the gaming industry goes.
Positives would be having third party companies not having to spend time and money optimising across multiple consoles and always having PS as lead platform. but imagine if there was no competition and MS ended up owning 75% of gaming studios (which they are slowly getting to). Can only imagine Sony would raise licensing costs massively to counter MS monopoly in software, while MS having to pay higher licensing costs and controlling all the gaming studios could raise game pass prices (and physical/digital sales) astronomically with no other consumer option.

Would be good to see a Push Square vs Pure Xbox article on the pros/cons of this inevitable future.

Big difference is that while Xbox One was at that point "closed ecosystem" with Microsoft pushing that device, Series X/S is really one of the options to enter ecosystem ie. you can subscribe into Game Pass without owning an Xbox console and Microsoft will still have your money. PlayStation is still all about selling consoles.

And after ABK whole point of comparing console sales is pretty much irrelevant since Xbox division is on par with PlayStation division in terms of revenue, while Xbox division has higher margins.

in TOP 20 most played games on PlayStation during october there were four games that Microsoft owns.

@luke88 not so much stuck, but never given a compelling reason to leave playstation. Last time it was given such a reason was when ff7 became exclusive to the ps1 and had no hope of being on an N64.

As far as ps5 goes. Plenty of reasons to own one, especially as a ps4 adopter. Your games run better on ps5. That ssd can at times fix ps4 load times or make them bearable. Some have improved frame rate etc. Ps5 versions of ps4 games tend to be better as well, not just because the ps5 has better hardware to better hit targets like 60fps or 4k, but the system level features tend to be better as well. Trophy tips, trophy progression, download speeds (cpu's got more overhead to work with so speeds down suffer while in game). Then there are the actual exclusives, especially the ones that take advantage of the dual sense. Don't get me wrong ps4, is a nice system, I can see the appeal of sticking to it. Especially for my ff7 tifa water tower theme. I miss booting up my pro and hearing her theme as she sits there looking up at the sky just before booting up ff7 remake. I honestly just don't see myself going back to it. The ps4 pro or base. They mostly get used as remote play machines. Even as I got through mega man x collection, I still find myself going to the ps5 to play it, even though there is little benefit in doing so beyond the fact it's what I prefer to use because of everything out side the game.

It's hard to explain to a ps4 gamer other than, you won't understand till you've fully adopted a ps5.

@NotSoCryptic funny right now the only thing I miss about ps4 is the themes, I loved the seasonal ones and yeah Tifa water tower probably one of the best themes for ps4 out there

Some good points raised above, which I have read and appreciate, as well as one or two comments I reject entirely. I did say I have "almost" no idea, and attempted to clarify that with an edit. I wasn't "trolling."

I guess I am thinking primarily about games I can only play on a ps5, or can only play on xbox. As someone who skipped the Xbox one (in favour of a PS4) there's just so much that's new to me on game pass and xbox. What's new on playstation so far this gen? Quality of life features don't really cut it for me. I can certainly understand not feeling like I do if you owned an Xbox one or if you own a half decent pc. But I think we can assume most of the people here owned a PS4. Brand loyalty and savvy marketing seems to me to be the only explanation for ps5 sales. I've seen no other serious explanation offered.

@NotSoCryptic @Member_the_game and @stonyKL (edit, just adding you so you knew I'd read your comments. Appreciated them. Just not enough there for me to justify an upgrade - only care about good new games.)

The Series consoles look like they could be an even bigger disappointment for Microsoft than the Xbox one but we still have people desperately trying to damage control while Xbox gets absolutely destroyed in console sales.
I fully expect this massacre to continue across the holidays and into next year with FF7 Rebirth.

@luke88 hahahahahahahahahahahahahah what a load of BS

All those acquisitions, and now they're stuck with the PC market 🤣 if this continues, they'll pretty much be forced to release games on PS as well, bossibly through a PS Game pass app or something

@BrettAwesome 25 millions consoles sold during 3 years is "being stuck to the PC market" since when?

Jesus. I have a feeling that some users around here wants Xbox consoles to be failure, so Microsoft will ditch them and starts releasing XGS/Bethesda games on PlayStation.
But I have a news for you. That won't happen unless Sony will allow Game Pass on PlayStation. And we all know Sony won't allow it.

The Xbox model is simply only sustainable due to their deep pockets.
Game Pass has nowhere near as many subscribers as Nintendo online - a service on a nearly 7 year old console! That’s actually ridiculous.
The notion that COD on Game Pass will suddenly make people buy an XBSX/S eventually isn’t going to work.
Sure, via PC they may pick up more subs but even the Acti/Blizzard deal isn’t guaranteed to change the momentum now.
Xbox May as well go Cloud only asap tbh.

They are a total mess and I play Xbox! We will then have the new Switch and I can only see sales tor Xbox deteriorating even more.

I hope they'll give up sooner rather than later and just abandon the market altogether. Normally I'd be against that because a Sony "monopoly" (in tandem with Nintendo) would not be a good thing either, but compared to the awful de facto monopoly Microsoft is aiming for, it'd still be a lesser evil.

So is this a comparison between PS4/XB1 November 2013 - October 2016 and PS5/Series X|S November 2020 - October 2023?

If so, the Xbox situation makes a lot of sense. While MCC was buggy for awhile and Halo 5's campaign was bad, Xbox still had a much stronger lineup in the early XB1 era than the early Series X|S era and in June 2014 they added the no Kinect bundles.

@DonaldMcRonald But that's the goal for Microsoft. Not how many consoles they sold, but how many MAU they have in their games.

And you can see that pretty clear if you look at their financials. Without ABK of course. Xbox had 3,16 billion during last quarter from "Content and services." PlayStation had 4,3 billion from "Contend and services" segment. While having twice of addressable target audience on consoles and outselling Xbox sometimes more than 2:1. Strange, isn't it. It's almost like a pivot of Microsoft to broaden their service outside of their own ecosystem works in their favour.

But general public just wants to drag them into "who sold more consoles" despite the fact that with ABK Xbox is more profitable division the PlayStation while selling less then 50% of what competition is selling.

And it's absolutely irrelevant if they created Minecraft, since they are profiting from it for last 10 years. And they are getting 70% of all revenue of Call of Duty (and other ABK games) on PlayStation. Who even cares if they are selling less consoles tbh?

And let's not pretend like Starfield was not impressive. Game was instantly 6th best selling game in US despite the fact that it ignored PlayStation as a platform and it was available to subscribers of Game Pass. And it also contributed to highest one-day addition of Game Pass subscribers in history of service.

@Godot25 That's the thing though, if console sales are much lower but revenue is still on a par with Sony then they are clearly making far more through software and services than they are through hardware. While I don't see it happening the higher ups at Microsoft could decide to cut their losses on hardware and go all in on the software and services side if that's where the real money is coming in for them.
Edit: You have even used two multiplatform games Microsoft now owns which really proves the point I'm trying to make better than I ever could.

@Kevw2006 Nah. Because console is easiest way to monetise your audience. That's why Microsoft won't stop making them.
Because you are getting 30% from every purchase on your console, and you can easily sell Ultimate tier of GamePass because you are bundling Gold and Game Pass (Gold does not exist on PC). You will be loosing all of that.

Also. Majority of Game Pass subs are still on Xbox console and not on PC. And since Sony won't allow Game Pass on PlayStation it's not like they have a chance to not make consoles.

But the point of Xbox's business strategy is that they are not "entirely" reliant on sales of consoles as PlayStation or Nintendo. In last quarter 30% of all PlayStation revenue came from sales of hardware. On Xbox it was only 19%.

@Godot25 Either they care about console sales or they don't, you can't pick and choose depending on the particular comment you are replying to. If the majority of game pass subs are console users then surely high console sales would be desirable.
If Microsoft went fully third party and released on PlayStation and Switch the increased sales and potential revenue through MTX would likely offset any losses from dropping out from the hardware side. Sony would never allow game pass on PlayStation in its current form as they would take a hit on possible losses in third party sales, however the may allow an EA Play or Ubisoft Plus style first party only version of game pass, and Nintendo would likely allow the same.

@Impossibilium that's a really bad idea having only one company selling proper consoles,there would be no reason for sony to be at all pro gamer without competition....yeah there's nintendo but they're in there own little nintendo world

Gamepass is where MS's focus lies this Gen. They obviously want to sell their console, and it is a fantastic machine, but its becoming more and more about gamepass. I have no doubt they would have the service on every console if they could.

Acquiring big publishers just gives more weight to their sales pitch when the time inevitably comes to approach Sony and the others.

On the flips side, as subscriptions plateau and box sales fall, it may give more incentive to launch games on other platforms over time. At the end of the day, despite very deep pockets, we all know MS loves money. They will pull in more of it from a dominant PS market buying games on top of their own eco system.

Who knows though i suppose. A healthy competitor breeds an environment were inovation thrives, and thats good for us as gamers.

And yet I continue to play my Xbox more right now. I don’t know why video game enthusiasts care so much about sales of consoles. How many consoles Sony sells has very little impact on any of us.

I have all three current gen systems (Switch included). Prefer the PS5 out of all, but hope all three ecosystems / brands / companies / etc. don’t go anywhere.

@Impossibilium that's the thing, some people think that was always the long term plan, but if that was the long term plan, why keep stuff like Starfield and Hellblade exclusive/away from PS despite Starfield Initially being developed for both consoles before being snatched away and Hellblade's first game being on PS before the sequel being made exclusive. If the plan was to be a publisher, it would want to make sure as many games were in as many places, so they can establish a continuation of that down the line for future sales from its happy customers.

They are just going to rake in Activision money and then try to buy even more publishers and repeat the cycle until they dominate the gaming industry like the dominated the PC industry with Windows. I'm still shocked how the Windows operating system looks the same now as it did in the year 2000. You see high end gaming pc's with sh*tty little icons on it, and grey boxes that pop up, MS is so low effort and always will be 😥

@Kevw2006

Microsoft went fully third party and released on PlayStation and Switch the increased sales and potential revenue through MTX would likely offset any losses from dropping out from the hardware side.

Are you sure? That does not sound accurate. Selling a few extra million copies of a game, would more than likely not offset the loss of 30% of every purchase on their store/hardware. Without that, Microsoft would only make money from their own games, and not everybody's games like they do now.

I just don't see them going 3rd party, dont forget the next xbox has already leaked from the FTC trial. If they had any thoughts of going 3rd party, why cancel Starfields PS version for example, which according to reports had years of dev time

I think it'ds much more likely they will release their own hardware until cloud is sufficient enough that they do not need hardware anymore. Why release gamepass on ps and Nintendo when they can stream it to your tv/phone and bypass the console

People saying Sony won’t allow GPU on their platform, it would be a different story if Microsoft didn’t make hardware anymore.

You would see a different type of GPU on a Sony ecosystem, probably one which just has all their first party titles, and not much 3rd party stuff.

But we know MS are in console business for the next Gen. beyond maybe different as you will be 10yrs down the line, cloud will look totally different, streaming and so on.

@Kevw2006 It's not that hard to understand
They care about sales, but their business strategy is not dependent entirely on sales of console. They are growing their business despite selling less consoles. Unlike Sony and Nintendo. They go only as far as sales of consoles will let them. You could saw that perfectly during WiiU era.

If they cared only about sales of console, they wouldn't release first-party games on PC day one (like Sony). But they see PC (especially Game Pass on PC) as a growth vector for their subscription service. But on the other hand if there is a guy who wants to game on console, they have Xbox for him. That's why Starfield (for example) is not on PlayStation.

If anything this is a bad thing overall. Good for Playstation/Sony as a company but… barely benefits any of the gamers and without the competition from Xbox will be a massive downward spiral in innovation (not that PS has too much as it is) pricing, and pushing the industry forward.

You should all be hoping it was more neck and neck.

It’s kind of mindblowing (and not at the same time) that people will argue from a fanboy standpoint rather than a “I want the video games industry to be healthy long into the future” standpoint.

@DonaldMcRonald I wouldn’t really say Spiderman is an original IP either…

@Sakai Admittedly I haven't really though through the more intricate details as I was mainly just theorising so I'm happy to concede any flaws that people spot. As I said in my original comment, I agree that it's not something that I actually see happening. However, if Microsoft decide that the demand for Xbox consoles just isn't what they would want it to be, as despite what many people say about them not caring about console sales I just don't see a company going to the trouble of designing and releasing a console and then not caring if people buy it, then they may decide that it's just not worth them continuing in that market. Phil Spencer has already said that they had threatened to pull out before and he managed to convince them otherwise.
The existence of plans, and even development, of a new console does not necessarily mean that it will actually ever be released. There are many products that enter development that never make it through to the production stage. I'm sure that Sony are currently developing the next PlayStation too but I would never give a 100% guarantee that a PS6 will release, there's many things that could change between now and then.
The decision to cancel the PS version of Starfield was taken very early in the current gen when sales were much closer. It being exclusive could have given Xbox the edge. It made sense to make it exclusive.

@Kevw2006 i think we can both agree that their will be an xbox next gen, but after that who knows. I just think it makes more sense to make their own console until cloud makes the whole xbox/nintendo/ps conversation irrelevant, because it will be streamed to your screen without the need for hardware.

Could you imagine the cost and time implications to release ports of all their games on PlayStation and Nintendo, just to make an inferior 1st party only gamepass on those platforms. It would be absolutely astronomical, just to.provide an inferior product with less games. It's a point that alot of people dont seem to take into consideration in my opinion.

With Cloud, the cost to reach those same gamers is practically 0. It just makes more sense looking to the future

@Godot25 I understand perfectly fine but you seem to be completely missing my point. By your own admission Microsoft's revenue has been massively bolstered by the acquisition of some fairly large multiplatform IPs that are arguably likely to be bringing in more revenue for them from other platforms than they are from their own. Does it not even seem remotely possible that they could decide that that it the way forward for them?

Microsoft did this to themselves. Their apathy towards games for so long led to the narrative Xbox has no games and it was mostly true until they had to spend $80B acquiring two publishers and a handful of studios. More importantly, they release all their games on PC, which completely eliminated any need or desire for me to buy another Xbox as I'm primarily a PC gamer. I make sure my PC stays beastly and buy PlayStations and I'm good to go.

They get more game sales with their strategy, but the hardware suffers, as you can see.
The Xbox One was a disaster. 11% behind that is apocalyptic.

@Sakai Completely agree. Despite me keeping my mind open to other possibilities, I think it's a fairly safe bet that we will see a PS6 and next gen Xbox. I think those will be the last traditional consoles as we know them though. Everyone knows Microsoft's position on cloud and Sony seem to be getting their act together there too so I expect that anything after the next gen will be heavily cloud orientated.

@Kevw2006 No.
Because if you stop making consoles you are at the mercy of others. Sony could refuse to put Game Pass on PlayStation and then you are basically *****. And I have huge doubts that you can offset all lost Game Pass/Gold revenue by releasing your games on PlayStation. Especially since you need to let 30% of your revenue to Sony. And I don't think Sony would allow GP on PlayStation even if Microsoft was not making consoles, because Game Pass directly competes with their own service.

There is no doubt that Microsoft is already working on next Xbox and they will release it. Even if Series X/S will sell less than Xbox One.

@Godot25
I suppose those numbers are sufficient to keep going. Yeah, some people want Microsoft to fail. They're the rich kid with the "pay to win" mentality. They paid alright. But they ain't winning. Can't blame some of us for giggling about it 🤷‍♀️

@Godot25 Sony allow EA Play on PlayStation so there's no reason they couldn't allow game pass. Dropping out of the console market they would no longer be a rival, they would become partners much like they would be with EA, Ubisoft etc. Although of course you completely ignored the fact that I was speaking about a first party only game pass. Do you really think Sony wouldn't like to have Starfield or TES6, for example, available on PlayStation?
If they were purely in the software side of things they also wouldn't have the outgoings involved with being in the console market too, sure they might end up bringing in less money but they would be spending a lot less on that side of things too.
As I've said, I don't actually see any of this happening, but I don't see it as being completely unrealistic that it could happen.

@PixelDragon Microsoft tried to pretend that they are nobody, so they can own ABK.
...same as Sony pretended that PlayStation would go bankrupt if Microsoft will own Call of Duty.

It's almost like every company tried to pursue hyperbole to "win." Shocker. I know.

@Kevw2006 But Game Pass is not only about first-party games, as you for sure know. And I really doubt that Sony would allow Game Pass on PlayStation even if it was "first-party games only" because that would include Call of Duty. And Sony pretty much relies on 30% cut from Call of Duty sales.

Game Pass with only first-party games is nonsensical. Nobody would subscribe for service that is providing 1 game every three months. And it's hardly imaginable that it would be sustainable for Microsoft to provide that kind of service. You need third-party content to sustain subscription service. Otherwise you are cooked.

EA Play is allowed on PlayStation because they are not including "third-party" games in their service. It's just their own games. And if you remember, Sony even had a problem with that for a long time.

Microsoft fail with a lot of projects here are a few:
Zune MP3 player
Windows Phone
Cortana
Windows App Store
MSN
probably the Xbox Console eventually
the thing most people should worry about is will xbox overtime ruin or destroy bethesda and activision

I hope Microsoft d get their act together and start being more competitive. I know people say they should just go third party but that would leave Sony without any competition which would be disastrous for everyone.

Insane it took 3 years though.

@K1LLEGAL "It’s kind of mindblowing (and not at the same time) that people will argue from a fanboy standpoint rather than a “I want the video games industry to be healthy long into the future” standpoint."

I can't think of anything more healthy for the longterm future of this industry then what MS have been doing with 3rd party acquisitions for the last few years. I pray, for health reasons of course, that the world's second richest company continues to consolidate and aquire the biggest publishers in the industry.

In case we forget, in the longterm healthy words of Matt Booty, the new President of Content and Game Studios at Xbox - "We (Microsoft) are in a very unique position to be able to go and spend Sony out of business."

@Oz_Momotaro Yeah, that would definitely be part of their plan, if things went that way. EA and Ubisoft have already laid the blueprints out for that, by putting their games into optional subscription services. Game Pass could easily fit on PlayStation, as long as it was Microsoft-owned game only.

@Intr1n5ic Matt Booty wrote an email about 3 or 4 years ago talking about spending Playstation out of the business.

Whats that got to do with what I said? You made it about what Xbox is doing. I’m saying if there is a lack of competition in the industry it can cause issues going forward. If Xbox bought Nintendo; that is not healthy either. If Playstation buys Konami; that could be beneficial as they were being passive and not releasing games (that is starting to change now) etc etc. But thanks for bringing up something completely random? Kind of proving my point about the fanboy standpoint.

Also I get it you are mocking the word “healthy” but it’s a relevant term that can be applied to the state of an industry so… yea.

@PixelDragon Yeah. It's almost like Jim Ryan have not said: "Our Business Would Never Recover' If Microsoft Degraded Call of Duty on PlayStation," right?
Luckily we have his statement in writing

@ROTTIEMAN16 Yeah that would be the extremely negative consequence if that happened. PlayStation is bad enough when they’re in the lead (in terms of sales and popularity). I’d hate to see what it would be like if they had no competition at all. Nintendo would have to release a console with specs comparable to PS5 (or PS6) for real competition to occur.

But then again, maybe things go the way of movies or PC gaming, where games (or subscriptions) would be available on all devices. Of course, that would only happen if Nintendo would also go along with all of it. I could see a world where that would work out

PlayStation releasing their first-party games on PC was already a step in that direction. And games like Minecraft and MLB The Show show what it’s like when first-parties release games on other consoles. Imagine Mario, Halo, and The Last of Us releasing on PlayStation, Xbox, Switch, and PC. That might actually work! (however unlikely that might be 😕)

“Moreover, it’s worth reiterating that this is the situation in the United States, where the Xbox brand is strongest – in countries like France, Sony is closing on 90 per cent market share against its nearest rival.”

Do they just flat out not consider Nintendo a rival? Nintendo is pretty big in France, and I can’t imagine that they have a 90 percent margin on them.

@K1LLEGAL I see you chose to completely sidestep everything else I said.

My bad with regard to that email, if he said it 3 years ago then he definitely doesn't have the capacity to apply that kind of healthy industry thinking to any decision making going forward.

What you call "competition", I call an attempt by a megacorporation to buy a controlling majority with their substantial wealth advantage. That's why I find comments talking about longterm healthy futures amusing.

I don't read articles like this and derive enjoyment because of fanboyism, it's because I enjoy watching companies who operate like MS eat s**t.

@Ravix Yeah, what you describe is currently their long-term plan, fer sure — buy everything until no-one can compete with them anymore.

But, plans can change. Especially when they look at what Epic tried to do; they swang their Fortnite money around trying to compete with Steam, and five years later the Epic Store is still not profitable — and they’ve spent more money than they made with Fortnite in their attempt. See also: Embracer Group.

Whether Microsoft will actually learn those lessons is another thing entirely. Unlike those companies, they have the cash to stay afloat no matter how badly things work out for them.

@luke88 I didn’t see your first comment, but as someone new to the Xbox ecosystem with purchasing my Series S, and more recently upgrading to the X, I agree with the sentiments and thoughts of your second comment. The main reason why I’m even keeping my PS5 at this point is because of the PS4 games that I already own. This gen on the PS5 I think that I have played two first party exclusive games that I have actually really enjoyed, Ghost (yes, it was a PS4 game, but the PS5 upgrade just makes the game that much better) and Ratchet (which was just a thoroughly enjoyable game) and I can’t recall any third party exclusives (I’ve tried playing FFXVI but on an oled it’s absolutely gross (like car sick gross) because of the instantaneous refresh rate of oled panels, it just doesn’t play nicely with that game). But the rest of the exclusives from Sony (which really are few and far between) feel like games I’ve more or less already played on the PS4. I even just picked up Spider-Man 2 the other day (so started by playing the most recently patched version) and although fun so far, I’m not sure it’s all that much better than the remastered version on PS5 (I have a master series Sony OLED and will say the game looks great in certain respects and just, I don’t know, off or weird in other respects; I certainly prefer the graphics and maybe even overall game of the original and Miles more so far).

I say all of this just to support your point, for someone new to the Xbox ecosystem, the Series X is just a more enjoyable piece of kit to have (by the way have you tried Ori while playing in 6K? On an OLED, just amazing looking and playing game!). The Elite Series 2 I think is the best controller I’ve ever owned. You can get GamePass for cheap through various means, especially compared to PS Premium (which I’m letting expire this month and won’t renew at any tier now that I have GamePass and will just repurchase ST6 and SMB4 on Xbox). Back compat is also really a neat touch (Lost Odyssey is fantastic, which as an old school Final Fantasy fan, I’ve loved). Picked up the Metal Gear 360 collection for cheap, and Red Dead on the 360 too for pennies. Again, echoing your point. For someone who has never been in the Xbox ecosystem, having a Series X makes the whole new gen thing actually exciting (and despite what people say, Xbox has some great exclusives). Especially as multiplatform games seem to run better for most games on the X, which again on my Sony OLED which Sony says was made especially for the PS5, the X games just look fantastic. Whereas the PS5, at least for me, just feels like a PS4 Pro 2 and most of the new Sony first party games just feel like 2.0 versions of their PS4 counterparts, which just goes to your point about the PS5 in practical terms seeming like a simple quality of life upgrade more than anything.

And all of this comes from someone who has owned every PlayStation system since day one of the PS1. Now if there is an actual remaster or remake of The Legend of Dragoon, then I’ll get truly excited about my PS5 (middle aged men and their nostalgia for PS1 JRPGs lol 😂).

@QuoVadis One thing about your post is a bit unfair as you're coming at both consoles from a different perspective. Having had every PlayStation since the PS1 the PS5 will not feel all that different and if you're used to Sony's style of first party games then PS5 games won't feel very different to you. However, being completely new to the Xbox ecosystem everything will feel completely new to you on there as you're getting to experience everything for the first time. For example, if you had played previous Forza games on the Xbox One do you think Forza on the Series X would have the same wow factor? Particularly if you had gone from a One X instead of the standard model.
We're at the point of diminishing returns now where the improvements between generations aren't as noticeable as they once were, despite what Sony and MS try to make us believe.

Rival? Xbox already won their thing. God Phil said Stadia is their main rival 2 years ago and he won that glorious battle lol.

@x3King84

You could say the same thing about Sky TV and Virgin Media

Essentially they both show the same TV channels but the user interface is completely different

I've had Sky for 18 years and when I go to a friend or relatives house who have Virgin I just can't take to it, the whole thing seems wrong to me.

I know that's a bit if a strange way of analyzing it but that's how I feel about Xbox compared to Playstation

@Kevw2006 Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I totally understand what you mean and I agree. Luke88 made the point from the perspective of someone new to the ecosystem and gave his impressions. So I really meant my post in support of his (especially seeing how unfavourably his opinion could be taken). The only thing I would say is you would be right that it wouldn’t be fair to say the X is better than the PS5 objectively if I’m using my perspective as a newcomer to Xbox as the standard for making that judgement. It’s just that it isn’t quite what I was trying to say. I mean, at the end of the day, consoles are just big plastic boxes (very big plastic boxes in the case of the PS5, that I suppose aren’t actually boxes lol) that are a means to play games. So personally, for me anyway, I care less about which logo is on the box that I’m enjoying the most at the moment or this gen (which really is the Switch anyway). So I’m not trying to say that Xbox has won this generation or that I’m in or not in the army camp of Sony (like the first comment in this thread). I mean these sorts of comments you have to take with a pinch (and often makes me wonder about what the age or maturity is of the people making some (many) of the comments I’m reading here or elsewhere on the internet). Which is objectively winning or better or some such, an interesting question I suppose for many, certainly on here, is something I’m less concerned to argue about.

Again though, I agree it would be unfair if that was what I was trying to suggest. In light of the whole Sony is demolishing Xbox thing, I was just giving a different perspective as you noted, which I know I’m not the only one who has had such an experience this gen (if you look at posts on Reddit or videos on YouTube etc., and Luke88 too is obviously an example of such too.

@DarthOreo

Your comments were removed from here by the admin before I got chance to actually read them but I did get an email notification and managed to read it that way.

For the record I was just winding you up over the post count. Wasn't meant to be taken seriously (as I'm sure you hopefully didn't)

Hope we're all good 😂

@Kevw2006 Respectfully though, I do disagree about the last point you made. I remember my mom bringing home the NES in 1990 (we were late to the party and getting both the SNES and N64 on Christmas morning during the respective years those systems came out. Nintendo has always been my preferred platform to enjoy games on because many Nintendo first party games are simply delightful. But the weariness I feel from Sony (or even AAA games in general sometimes) certainly is not there at all with Nintendo. It’s funny they churn out similar franchises and games each Gen of their systems (with of course very different and new ips each system too) but opposite to what Sony or Microsoft puts out, their games often feel just as, if not more fun, fresh, and creative than what preceded them. Not every game they put out is a winner of course, but the variety, creativeness, fun that keeps their new games delightful and fun, is something that, from the perspective of a middle aged man (late thirties, who needs to get back to writing his thesis lol), Sony hasn’t had since maybe the PS2 days. Just because Sony is 5 gens in doesn’t mean it has to keep just doing the same thing over and over again. Maybe it’s just the feeling that I am kind of tired of the main experience offered by Sony essentially feeling like I’m just playing something that is in between a game and a movie that has me less enthusiastic at this point about Sony’s offerings. Anyway, I’ll stop with the rambling (or waffling as they used to say to me when I lived in Ireland lol…I do it a lot as you can tell from the length of my comments 🤦‍♂️).

@QuoVadis I hope my original reply didn't come across as overly defensive as that wasn't really my intention. I actually agree with most of what you said as putting myself in the same position I think I would feel the same way you do. While I love my PS5 I am yet to be wowed by it it the way I have with previous consoles.
Couldn't agree with you more about Nintendo too, they seem to have some weird magic where they are able to keep franchises that date back even further than PlayStation and Xbox feeling fresh far better than the other two do.

@2here2there Because it’s a Game Pass delivery mechanism. That seems to be pretty much the only thing that they care about.

@Kevw2006 Oh no not at all man, and it was a totally fair point to make. I will say though, personally, I have less interest in PlayStation and Xbox as a whole these days compared to Nintendo (no question I’d keep the Switch if I could only have one. Wouldn’t even have to think twice about it). And yeah, I don’t know how Nintendo does it. The whole, we don’t do it unless it brings something new to the table can be frustrating sometimes in some respects, but really, I am so thankful they approach games and hardware that way. I mean for example, I love classic Zelda games (Skyward Sword, however, can go die lol Brutal game). Although Breath of the Wild isn’t perfect, (Tears far less perfect than Breath) and I would love a game that harkens back to the more traditional gameplay, I am so glad Nintendo keeps things fresh and interesting, and has lots of variety in their output, within a series and between ips. Origami King is another example. It gets hated on for not being TTYD but man, I’m glad they did something different. What a fun and delightful game. It had me laughing out loud and the changes they made were creative and enjoyable. I’m not sure how Nintendo does it. I won’t die on his thill ‘Nintendo is better than the rest’, since, I mean, we are just talking about video games, but man, I’ll die on this hill all the same lol!

11% down on Xbox One? My God, I didn't think it was that bad.

@QuoVadis yeah, I agree with most of your points. My main consideration with any new console is games I can't play anywhere else, and there aren't enough of those on ps5 at the moment, in my opinion. Game pass is also absolutely unreal and incredibly cheap for me, currently.

@Kevw2006 certainly makes a good point, though. Coming to Xbox again for the first time since the 360 has certainly had a big impact on my experience so far. However, I think the same could potentially be true for lots of Playstation fans if they discarded brand loyalty, which goes back to my original comment: I'm not sure why so many people have bought a ps5. I expect the majority of them already have a PS4 and would have a similarly positive experience with the series X.

@x3King84

I agree 100% that Forza is better than Gran Turismo Forza was basically the reason I bought an Xbox..

Trouble was once I was done with that I just found myself going back to Playstation all the time

Ah but, you know.. monthly active users, player engagement and so on. Those are the metrics that really matter, right? Right?

@StonyKL Without Xbox you'd be buying games for 100+ GBP and I'm not talking about any premium edition just the base game, need i remind everyone sony were the one's who raised the price of games this gen and everyone else just copied that blueprint.

There would be no key site to get games cheaply either, CDkeys never seems to have any PS keys aside from memberships.

@luke88 At that point why not get a pc? If you decide your purchase based on exclusive games then a pc has the most value there

Would love a good pc, as I haven't had one for years, but I don't currently have the time, space, money or expertise to really get the most out of it.

@x3King84 Eh....to say Forza is FAR better than GT is completely ignorant. There's some pros and cons to both. As you can see in the current versions of both games.

@DennisReynolds The problem is that it can't work unless it's streaming only unless they physically port the games to the ps6? and switch2? I don't expect them to be compatible.
Thankfully it doesn't look like just outright buying publishers is doing much for them.

@Deityjester Need i remind you it was Microsoft that introduced micro transactions and subscriptions for online play? Sony is mild in comparison. Microsoft breaks ground in gouging.

@Rafie love both but Forza is more for me. It’s just more approachable. And the races can get long on GT. But I like how GT controls better.

@Deityjester Take Two Interactive were the first to announce price increases for next gen games back in July 2020, they established the new price point for NBA 2K21. Sony and Activision followed suit 2 months later.

@Nem Bait and switching people including me about Skyrim/fallout 4 mods, selling tlou three times for full price, forcing people to purchase only Sony branded Bluetooth headset for new handheld and ps plus tiers is what you call mild?

@Intr1n5ic take two doesn't produce consoles and remind me how many titles have they released in the past 10 years that havent been re releases, like two?

You explain to me why the bigwigs at Sony think it's ok to charge their consumers 70 GBP for a game that came out on the PS3 and was re released on PS4 🤔 i do not recall taketwo doing that with their multiple gta 5 releases, a two time re release costs more than RDR2 did at launch how is this even defendable.

@Deityjester Compared to what dlc microtransactions did to games where they launch incomplete to sell off the pieces as DLC and having to pay for online play that was always and still is free on PC? Definitly. Those sony transgressions are mild. Buying tlou 3 times? It's the same game, you don't need to buy it 2 and 3 times.
Bluetooth? Sounds like an inconvenience, but a one time purchase. Dunno what these fallout and skyrim mod thing is. As far as i know they are available the same way they are on Xbox.

Oh you don't like the tiered subs huh? Guess who started with those? Microsoft breaks ground and the others copy. Can't blame Sony and Nintendo for jumping in once Microsoft proves it's a worthwhile scam. They would leave themselves vulnerable if they didn't. Microsoft are experts in gouging and bait and switch schemes. Sony is a novice by comparison.
Not saying that Sony is great. I hate these things as micro transactions, dlc and subs. But as they say, Microsoft is the root of these evils. They started it.

@Nem No point even debating someone who doesn't even know about the mods bait and switch, a lot of people purchased Xbox one's and/or pc's purely because of that. There are no tiered subs on Xbox either, gold never had tiers and gamepass was either gamepass alone or gamepass bundled with gold.

If i get gamepass i can use it on two different systems, I have to pull out a dusty launch PS4 or buy a PS5 to get two games a month and online play that is free on pc, you tell me who's getting gouged here besides people who buy systems based on exclusives.

*The American Giant

Interesting to see a lot of PS centric players predicting Xbox will leave the console hardware space (Is that what they secretly want so they their beloved console gets more adoration?) It seems Xbox will continue to support hardware alongside its vast publishing and cloud arms well into the next decade. After that who knows. Microsoft itself did become very much obscenely successful from software. I like both consoles as they offer great things in diffrernt areas. The more console options we have the better. One day in the not too distant future we will rue the loss of console hardware altogether.

@Deityjester lol... you do get that they are DLC right? I don't care what you want to debate. It's fact that these things exist cause of microsoft. You have to pay for them cause of Microsoft. They are carved out of games cause of MS.

I get that you have personal grievances with some things and that is alright. But the scale and impact of what Microsoft did in no way compares to what any other games company did.
If you don't see that, well i guess you need new perspective.

What the? What did you call gold and silver? Those are literally tiers. Am i speaking chinese? You are moving the goal posts. Guess what? Game pass is another tier as well.

I was bait and switched and gouged way harder on the xbox 360 than any playstation. From the console itself made to break from RRoD to bait and switch with exclusives by having several at the start and only 3 IP in the last years. With the OG Xbox they put a pay wall on online gaming. Then they brought us the beautiful horse DLC to Oblivion that resulted in unfinished releases being the norm.
Heck i remember Fable 3 and it's micro transactions weapons. Completely ruining the franchise. I remember being shocked to see them drop.

I don't pay for online. I was not scammed by Sony. They adopted the online pay wall after it worked on Xbox and gave them money so they could keep up with the infrastructure. They left it up for quite a while and Nintendo even more. They kept delivering exclusives till the last years of the freaking PS3 when it started as a dump of arrogance people didn't want to buy. That is what made the ps4 a success.

No, Sony has not schemed me or bait switched me so far. I don't adopt ps+. That is all.

Your grievances are of the personal level and don't equal the damage a paperweight console and decades of gouging a sub to be able to access your internet do and every modern game does with carved out dlc and Micro transactions, all cause of the doors provided by Microsoft. It's on a completely different level you don't seem to get or don't want to get cause you need to buy a sony Bluetooth, like Microsoft and Nintendo never did proprietary stuff. Guess what? You can buy a 3rd party SSD for the ps5 while the xbox is proprietary. That by itself saves you more money than a silly headset.

Also, gamepass is a bait and switch scheme too. You will get to enjoy that one soon enough.

@Deityjester Are you moving the goalposts because you were wrong? Now you're saying the first console manufacturer? If that's the case, sure, but that's not what you originally stated. Take Two, and more specifically 2k games, were the first to announce they were raising prices for this gen.

It looks like PlayStation is winning this generation's hardware battle again by miles, the PS4 out sold the Xbox one by 5 to 1 and it looks like this generation will do the same or even better. Microsoft are clearly making so much money from their other revenue streams, that they simply don't seem to be bothered that they are damaging the gaming community by making these software house purchases and turning their games into Xbox exclusives. Surely any software company would prefer to be able to sell their game to both PlayStation owners and Xbox owners, but Microsoft seem to be testing whether these exclusives will get them a larger market share, but it does not appear to be working.
I absolutely loved Skyrim and played it to death with every race and gender, but even that burning desire to play Elder scrolls VI will not persuade me to buy an Xbox! I guess I'll have to continue replaying the fantastic Baldur's Gate 3 and hope Microsoft will one day relent and make their new games cross platform. If they don't then these software houses will surely see their profits diminished.

@themightyant You are right yes Xbox has all these revenue streams; above and beyond just the consoles sold. But I just really would hate for them to go third-party, which I think a good few people here hope for.

@Nem you say Gamepass is a bait and switch; but I have been enjoying it for years for very little upfront cost. Not sure what is wrong with that? Everyone who has spent the last few years saying it’s “unsustainable” etc has actually just been missing out on its incredible value. Even if they were to pull the rug out from us and destroy the value of gamepass - it’s already happened - we have already had the value. You just missed out on it.

@K1LLEGAL I have not. There is no sense in paying to have access to a gigantic list of games you will never play.
The scheme is to lure people in, destroy the competition and then raise the prices.
I did not miss out. I am thoughtful about what i buy and when i buy it. I got everything i want. I don't usually buy games at launch so it doesn't have that much value to me. Also... you own nothing. If you cancel you lose access to your games. What sort of value is that?

@Nem it’s very good value. each to their own but i’ve played a LOT of games on gamepass to completion. And life is too short to play them again. So losing them in the future is fine. Its a rental service and it works for me. I got the 1000gs in LAD Gaiden already for instance. I’m very unlikely to ever play that £45 game again in my life. But it was awesome. And great to play it on the sub.

@kirkn
History tells us they will ruin Bethesda and Activision.

As an owner of all three of the major console manufacturers, I don’t want to see any of the three “just go away and become 3rd party” as many in the comment section have implied. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but you have to really think what consequences this could cause? Prices for both consoles and games went up during a pandemic. They went up during a global recession. What would they raise them to outside of a recession? None of the three are more guilty or innocent than the next. If you take one or two of them away, you’ll be left buying the next console for over 1000 dollars/pounds. You’ll be left buying each game 100+ dollars/pounds. You really want its competition going away, think again.

And I’m disappointed in these sites that punch down while on top. I get it that there will be console wars and keyboard warriors, but the writers for these sites have a responsibility to not egg it on. A site dedicated to the PlayStation brand should be focused on that. Over half the article written above is about the Xbox. I know this isn’t going to be a popular opinion on here, but while on top, you should never punch down. If you have a PS5/4, then enjoy your console. If you have a Xbox Series or a Nintendo Switch, then enjoy your console. Absolutely report and boast the PlayStation brand, but don’t have half or the majority of the article about how the competition isn’t doing as well. It’s cheap and uncalled for especially when the market share in some areas is close to 90 percent in favor for your top console choice. Sammy do better next time.

@Deityjester so on the logic that MS makes more money in gaming now, I don't understand why they also raised prices? Surely if they offered their games for £30 new instead of the £70 for Sony game then they might start taking more share from Sony? They now boast about fleecing their customers more than Sony do so they could subsidise 3rd party games as well. It would definitely make me start buying the 3rd party games on Xbox instead of PS?