PS5 Pro Is '100%' Happening, Says Reliable Report

I believe it too when they are selling that $200 edge controller and PS Premium still exists. And the pc prices and overall game prices. Milking as hard as possible.

I am sure there will be some form of an updated ps5 in the near future as there always has been in each console generation. But I am not really convinced that we need a ‘Pro’ model, unless they are aiming for something like locked 120fps mode on full 4k with ray tracing. But games like HFW on 60fps already seem amazing enough, so is a more powerful ps5 really necessary?

I'm not surprised, many games are unable to maintain at least 60fps with ray tracing. You usually need to choose between one or the other.

If the Pro offers better RT Support at good framerates, then I'm game for it.

By "many games" I am referring to third party games, Sony's studios are usually pretty good at offering a Performance RT Mode.

I still think this is BS as it’s the same guy repeating the same thing over and over while not a single other “insider” has reported on something similar, so it’s just Tom Henderson and his “sources” claiming there’ll be a PS5 Slim with a detachable disk drive (which already sounds unlikely), a PS5 Pro and the most bizarre one a PS5 handheld that only works with remote play.

Also, there’s just absolutely no reason for a Pro system to exist this generation as it’s barely starting 3 years after launch, most games are still cross-gen, there isn’t a push for 8K as there was for 4K in 2016, PS5 hasn’t dropped in price as PS4 did in 2015-2016, it’s even gone up in every region outside the US, so a Pro system would come out at $600 or even $700 which is ridiculous and would even hurt the entire brand (remember that PS3 price reveal).

So long story short, it doesn’t make any sense and it’s BS.

Wonder what's the upgrade from PS5?

@Kelrics90 and yet neither latest Horizon, nor GoW had RT in them.

I wonder if the ps5 with the detachable disk drive is the playstation 5 Pro, maybe they won't do anything to the specs apart from more storage and ships with dualsense edge

Ok, yeah. Scalpers have to maintain their business,I guess.. That's why we need ps5pro.

I'd bet on a 1500 quids per unit))

@IOI people paid far more than $600 for PS5’s from the scalpers already. This will sell on brand name alone.

Utterly ridiculous given most ps5 games release on ps4 still.

I actually prefer ps5 slim 😕

@Blacksmith1985 I suspect that's due to those games clinging on to supporting the PS4. Burning Shores still didn't provide it so I cannot make an argument for it.

As for God of War Ragnarok, did it really need it? There's not a lot of scenes besides the safe house that has tons of reflective surfaces.

I still doubt and if it does happen i wouldn't be shocked if its less a Pro and more a Slim.

@Kelrics90 I mean the 4K/60fps/RT dream is still that a dream on PC's double the price of PS5's.

Let’s get some bloody first party games announced before even more hardware yeah Sony?

@WallyWest I didn't specify it had to be Native 4K, but even in games that do offer performance RT, we often lose quite a bit of res. Some go as low as somewhere between 1080p and 1440p.

A bump closer to maintaining 1440p would be a nice upgrade.

If it means 4K AND 60fps with a sleeker design, bring it on

Dear Sony. How about you stop trying to bleed us with yet more expensive hardware, move on completely from the PS4 and let us know if you ever plan on making a first party game for PSVR2 ever again. Thanks.

This time it’s 16k at 160fps, which translates to 4k-ish at semi-stable 60fps.

@Kelrics90 ray tracing is more about realistic light and then reflections

As a lot of games only offer RT in 30fps, I think we might need it.

I bought the PS4 Pro when it released.

They haven’t came close to utilizing the PS5 and there is no way in hell I’ll buy a PS5 Pro unless it’s a fantastic deal.

I’d prefer a slim, I got a ps4 pro and regretted it so won’t be making the same mistake again. Why can’t we have more games? I don’t care about frame rates and ray tracing as much as others. The ssd is the selling point of ps5 for me. Make a slim with a 2tb ssd and I’m sold

I can see it happening but I’ll more than likely just stick the PS5 I already have.

I see people are already being irrational over a complete non issue.

It will be a more powerful option if that's something that interests you. You are under no obligation to support it if it doesn't, nor should you be complaining about it if it's out of your budget range. We see the exact same thing on a yearly basis with various electronics in other markets.

It has nothing to do with what any of the studios have produced up to this point either. For almost 2 years it was extremely difficult to even get a PS5, so much so that it became a meme as to whether or not they actually existed, and yet some people here are suggesting they should have only been developing for it.

I have no issue with a mid gen hardware upgrade as an "option". If I think the cost warrants a purchase, I probably will. If not, I'll crack on with the base PS5.

@Grimwood "So far there hasnt been one (1) actual PS5 (non pro) exclusive "next gen" game"

Tell me you don't play on playstation without telling me you don't play on playstation......

@R_Ryder Agreed.
We dont even get 4K@60FPS on non-RT games at present with the PS5 and thus a Pro would be great news to finally get to the 4K target of this generation.

tbh its quite shocking that most games are still 1440P@60 and thats using FSR (so really at 1080P). Not quite the UHD generation we expected!

Only in video games do customers say "oh that's ok that the product you sold me doesn't actually do what you told me it does properly, I'll happily buy another one for more money if you say this time it really does what you said the last one did but didn't" like it's some kind of fantastic deal.

@NEStalgia What doesn't the PS5 do that they suggested it could?

I think a lot of people would be very annoyed if a pro released before devs started making games just for current gen. Plus, I fully believe this gen will last into 2030, which means both platform holders will likely be holding off as long as possible so a pro+ isn’t a costly temptation.

The only thing it could noticeably add is RT, but I think the hardware was built into both platform holders’ machines from the start and they’ll wait on devs to become more familiar with the systems before adding more costly components.

That’s my take anyway. Would I get one? If it meant more VR games at native 120 rather than reprojected then yes, I would, but I wouldn’t be happy about it I must say.

Although it would give me a good excuse to get a new console and move my existing PS5 to the bedroom where I might be more likely to play after the wife falls asleep…

Hopefully, I want to make more use of my monitor. For people who have only just got the PS5, literally nothing changes for you, you can still play every game. This is for the more dedicated gamer who made sure to get one a few years ago. This gen is already gonna start to struggle with 60 FPS, imagine in 4 years. An upgrade is very welcome to me.

@Grimwood Returnal, Ratchet and Clank and Demons Soul Remake (one of the best looking games out there) say hi.

@Intr1n5ic 8K. Not that we need it. 8K is pointless

@Andy22385 The touryst renders at 8k and the machine has no issues doing it, although it hasn't been enabled to support it via hdmi 2.1 so it downsamples to 4k. As you say though, there is no demand for it and is pointless as virtually no one has an 8k display.

If it's real and releasing in Q4 2024, Sony wouldn't announce it until Q3 2024. The PS4 Pro had 2 month gap between announcement and release.

But I don't think PS5 Pro is real, there's not the same situation that PS4 was in. There's no mainstream equivalent to the rise of 4KTVs and unlike PSVR1, Sony's treating PSVR2 like an afterthought that's going to be abandoned in around a year.

People banging on about resolution when the reality is that developers will always use the resources elsewhere and rightly so.

A console using the PS5 architecture but with more RAM, a better CPU and GPU could have truly amazing looking games, RT performance is the area where AMD still struggle unfortunately but should still be a noticable jump over the standard PS5's capabilities. It's certainly something I'll be interested in

The fundamental reason for the dissatisfaction is because there have barely been any games that show off the power of the PS5 yet, and if people start targeting a Pro, it feels like PS5 owners will have never experienced playing a game truly designed for their platform.

However if a Pro means we get more PS5 targeted games, I'll make my peace with it.

Why do people criticise SONY for making an updated version of their latest console but when Nintendo released the OLED Switch (with zero change to internals or anything other than an OLED screen and double the memory) people loved it. I doubt it would be a "pro" version because then they'd be charging £600 and only hardcore SONY fans would buy one. Maybe a slim version. But then most people would probably sell their PS5 and get the "pro" version anyway so it wouldn't actually cost too much.

Considering how hot it gets and at what specs the hardware runs, there is not much of performance you can squeeze out of this gen. I don't think that it will be pro.

Maybe with ps5 pro we'll get that "8k" they were advertising on the box lol

The problem the console generation is that it skipped 1440p. PC's went from 1080 to 1440p, which is a doubling of pixels. Jumping from 1080p to 4K is a jump 4 times the pixel count.

So technically speaking, if a PS5Pro launches one day, that makes the current PS5 variant the "Slim" model Hard to believe I've actually said that...there is nothing slim on the current model LOL!

OK, so I spit here:
Against PRO - well, it will make the devs lazy in terms of optimization. VRR helped them in that too. I cant stop giving Ghost of tsushima and PS4pro as example of GREAT coding.
For PRO - I hope 60fps at 4K (or atleast checkerboard) becomes a minimum.

While part of me is loathe to accept a PS5 Pro, it's clear that more and more games are going to struggle to maintain 60fps, (let alone ray tracing) especially with technology like Unreal engine 5 becoming more prevalent in newer games. The PS5 will also be four years old by that point, which for me as a day one adoptee, is a fair enough time frame where I may start to consider an upgrade. I imagine people that got caught up in the post-pandemic stock malaise, may feel like hanging onto their original hardware a little while longer.

@Texan_Survivor @gomersoul ps5 is twice the price of a series s?

@Imortist tbf since the PS5 was designed there's been a monumental power increase. Around 6-7x more TFs are in the top cards. Even the lower ranges that could possibly be in a Pro model are pushing 25-30 TF

This bothers me. A precedent has been set and as a console gamer I don't like it. Still a rumor, but still...

More hardware the better I say. Some win some lose. Just because you can’t afford something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist for others, how arrogant. If the PS5PRO will do full RT at 60 I’m down

This is still BS. Whilst we all know a redesign with attachable disc drive will come, there is no way that they are going to split their sku's with another hardware set.
This is what happens when news is dictated by twitter accounts.

Why to naughty dog?Is still exist this company?🤣🤣🤣🤣
And why they will send it to the third party devs?To make games with graphics like playstation 2?

@Titntin some games are already starting to struggle imagine in 4 years with more fidelity, Sony dont want a 30 fps gen again. If Sony think people will double dip. And they absolutely will in their millions, they'll do it.

I’ve said it before - it’s not like I need this to happen but I will upgrade given the opportunity.
Still, this doesn’t make it sound like it’s releasing anytime soon - more like a holiday 2024 release. Definitely not expecting anything official about it in the next few months.

Browsing through the comments, the consensus seems to be that this is not needed. It appears what people actually want is more quality games, specifically first-party titles. What is the point in a Pro model if there aren’t enough titles to show off its potential? It doesn’t sound as if consumers want this. Granted, there will always be those that want the latest and best version, but what are we really being asked to buy into here? Many games can and do hit 4K/60 on the current model. It’s also down to developers to ensure their games perform well on existing hardware.

The hinted remote play device sounds limited. The refresh with a detachable disc drive sounds horribly inelegant - both seem unlikely. Hardware should be kept simple for the consumer, having to mess around with a peripheral like this, even if it’s one time only, sounds like a messy solution from the 90s console era.

If anything, the PS5 could benefit from a slim iteration. As mentioned above, many do not care for specs, RT and the like. There are probably many people who have been put off buying a PS5 purely because of the design, but more so the size. A smaller unit might be just as appealing as one which promises 4K locked 60.

Personally, I’m not keen on mid-generation refreshes. I understand the reasoning, but it’s not simple and tidy. It’s the same reason I’ve gone off PS Plus. I’d much prefer it as it used to be, without the tiered system.

Sony should focus on the games, that’s what we buy the systems for. I’d rather see the money that goes into R&D , production and marketing of a mid-generation refresh go into funding more exciting software.

If a mid-gen refresh didn’t exist, would anyone care or notice. We are being presented with things to consume, therefore we consume them. We don’t really need them, we are just told it’s better.

My issue with this remains that we still havent truly seen what these consoles are capable of with only a small number of native ps5 only releases. Until that changes, i see no need for a pro

Only reason for a ps5 pro is a boost to psvr2, other than that I don't see any point

As I've said before..... If they're releasing a pro variant then they need to also do a big trade in deal like they did for the ps4 pro. Here (south UK) our local game did an amazing deal of trading in the standard ps4 and paying £50 to upgrade to the pro. Now if Sony do a deal like that then I'm game and I'll get it but if they don't then I'll stick with my base PS5 and wait for the PS6 whenever that gets released.

@Valgore

That’s not a bad deal. I traded a PS4 Pro in Game last year for a Series S. It was £40 on top, which wasn’t bad, as the S had yet to have any regular substantial discounts. If the upgrade path is there, it’s certainly appealing.

Personally think it's a joke, when the PS5 is less than three years old!! And most titles are on ps4. If we are going this route make a modular system.

I don't feel the need for one, tbh I'm probably going to have to get a better TV before I start seeing any improvements.
But that said, I don't think it'll hurt to release one for the people that do want it. The PS4 pro didn't hurt the PS4 at all, it's not like it ever became essential. It's just a pricier option for the enthusiasts.

I need the ps5 pro!

PS5 Pro will be here next year and PS5 here 2028.

Time isn't going to stand still just because devs decide to gimp their games by still making them last gen.

Do know how much a pro model is needed but let's hope it can hit native 4k (not upscaled) 60fps then an optional 60fps + raytrace + upscaled 4k (hopefully 1440p or 1800p)

@Grimwood There's no way Returnal could run on PS4.

@KaijuKaiser

notice the comments are coming from mediocre gamers...or else they would have been using ps5 to Its full potential and seen the flaws by now. And the ones just now getting the base ps5, just chill and enjoy it if you don't want the pro, or if you do, then buy it or make plans to trade it/sell it if you've done it before, that simple.

Sure. It can happen. Doesn't mean i'm buying though.
I am much more interested in a switch pro atm.

I bought a Pro in generation 4, but definitely not this time. Seems like this would be a bad look for Sony, too, given that 5s are just now becoming more available, and they’re selling so well. So many people finally upgrading to a 5, only for a Pro model to launch next year? I’m not sure I believe it… And if it does happen, no thanks, Sony.

@Vacuumator this is where people get confused. R&D and mid gen refreshes will happen regardless. They have always happened every console. If they stopped doing it, we would never have PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PS5, PS6. Money doesn't make quality software, the developers make those games. Just because you end R&D and give, say Naughty Dog more money, it doesn't then become a different game, they are already buying more developers. So it shows they are putting more money into that side. Which isn't effecting R&D. Tell that to pc graphics cards. We wouldn't be here without them either.

@IOI actually its not bs. This is happening if you like it or not.
What we will have is
A Base PS5 which is discless but be able to buy a disc drive. This will replace both the disc and discless versions, and not add another console to the mix.

What this will do, is streamline the production of PS5, instead of making 2 of the same console, they'll just make 1. Meaning the costs will be less, even when buying the disc drive, lowering the price. I expect it to be the same price or slightly lower than the PS5 discless version is now. With the add on disc drive pricing so it makes it cheaper than the PS5 disc Version.

So Summary; Faster to make, Cheaper to make, Cheaper for consumer, and above all else less confusing for the consumer, unlike xbox where its 2 entirely different consoles but marketed together, even though 1 is inferior, unlike PS5. Which is confusing for the general consumer.

Then we will have the PS5 Pro.
This will be priced at the PS5 disc version price.
What exactly it will be, im not sure. But there alot of improvements they can make. Maybe making it so there doesn't have to be a compromise of 4k 120fps. I also don't believe they really thought how much Ray tracing is beneficial and didn't implement it to well into the system, with its components. I have no idea but Sony must have something for it to be a reality.

So in the end we will be in the same position we are now.
PS5 PRO
Base PS5.

@themightyant

word

Day one upgrade for me. I’ve enjoyed my ps5 but man I still struggle with the odd shape of the thing.

Not convinced. I believe their hardware team is designing one but that’s not the same as launching one.

Other than the aesthetics of the PS5, what can they actually improve upon that most games and gamers can take advantage of? Most TV's don't support 120hz, and most games don't include Ray Tracing. Many games don't even stretch to 60fps. So, is a more powerful console actually going to improve a gamers lot, and if it can, would it be affordable or worth the upgrade?

@OmegaStriver

correction, you haven't come close to utilizing it...

@Nem

🤣🤣🤣🤣😭 by far the funniest comment on here.

N.i.c.e. a ps5 pro is fine by me.i bought and i still got my ps4 pro.word up son

Q4 2024 at the earliest is fine with me. I will be there day 1 if so.

Could be great for PSVR2, Can it handle GT7 at native 120fps? Count me in

What is graphics if gameplay is not available? My PSX gets more love from me than the PS4 Pro. Mhhhhhmm check please!

I think it would be a harder sell for this gen, what can it offer that we can't do with the current PS5? If games like Jedi Survivor still struggle on a top end PC then a PS5Pro won't help with that.

For me a PS5 slim still seems more sensible than a Pro at this point.

Imagine how great all these cross-gen games will play on a PS5 Pro!

In seriousness though, should this be true it's an absolute joke given the lack of optimised titles for the current system, how dare it need an upgrade already when people haven't even been able to get it and there's only been a small handful of current gen gamesreleased so far.

@Bez87

When have mid-gen refreshes happened previously?

I’m confused as to how money/investment doesn’t make for quality software? Money equals time, time, generally, equates to quality. Surely more time and money would help to ensure games release in a better state and provide a stable experience?

I have just tried Redfall on Xbox, and whilst I love Arkane, it is absolutely apparent that the game should not have released as it is. Graphically it is inconsistent, there are obvious glitches and from a design point of view it just doesn’t work as a solo game - huge chunks of time are spent walking across an empty map. Do I hate the experience, no, the atmosphere and world design work, it just feels like it needed more time. And money.

The only real demand of a Pro model is that it helps developers meet 4K/60 more consistently. What are consoles actually competing with now? Triple AAA games on PC are continually being released in a broken state. The cost to run the latest titles at highest settings on PC is prohibitive for many. Consoles continue to compete with a platform they will never surpass, nor do they need to. I’d be more excited for news on a PS6 that meets the demands of something like Cyberpunk 2077 Overdrive. That technology is likely a decade away for consoles.

Is the PS5 actually comparable to the Base PS4 at the same point in its lifespan? Releases for the PS5 are consistently both graphically impressive and provide stable performance. What will a PS5 Pro do to improve a game like Horizon:FW, already one of the most impressive games on any system.?

Generally I am not a fan of the continual push to persuade consumers to buy into things that they don’t really need. Nobody needs a new iPhone every year, no one. The difference in features year-on-year is negligible. A £1500 maximum outlay per annum for something that we don’t need is obviously unnecessary. The point here is does the market actually need or want a mid-generation refresh? The PS5 has only just become more readily available. Those consumers buying in now might feel shortchanged in 18 months time. Most of them won’t be upgrading.

I still don't want one. I get why the PS4 Pro happened, and that was because of the rise of 4K, but I really don't want one this generation. It is true that the PS5 could be even more powerful, but asking us to buy two systems per generation now is ridiculous. Yes, I know it would be purely elective, but to get the best version of each game, you'd have to buy the PS5 Pro. Just make the system powerful enough the first time around, as unlike last gen, there's no understandable reason for this again.

With that said, I'll believe it's happening when Sony says it is. Until then, this is all just speculation.

Probably should give some sort of current Gen only road map before leaking confirmations of more hardware on the way there Sony.

So far, early adopters have been rewarded with just a few current Gen first party exclusives, one 3rd party exclusive just released that can't even run properly at 60fps even at a native resolution that dips as low as 648p and upscale with a dated and lackluster up scaling AI. All of which doesn't bode well for the few unreal engine 5 games on the way, or that next FF game... (which has ps3 era looking character models for some npcs and looks like it could very easily run on ps4 pro aside from maybe some flashy particle effects. Or hey, maybe it has Horizon's clouds...).

I realize that these corporations have now folded in holding back tech advancement in favor of mid Gen cash grabs, Oops I mean "refreshes, " into their shareholder profit strategies. yet you may want to actually release and announce some games first. At the very least some Fan service and teasers for actual PS5 games. not movies, TV shows, and broken pc ports.

Take me out to dinner before you try and...

@Bez87 ha if you think a pro is coming at 480, you are in for a huge shock.

Also the only real mid gen refresh was the ps4 pro, so really the pro is the outlier (4k tv)

Whether it eventually exists or not one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that I will not be buying one.

I did upgrade my PS4 to a Pro version and it's one of my biggest regrets.

If I didn't already have a PS4 then maybe it would have been justifiable but it was the biggest waste of money I've possibly ever unnecessarly spent

Not interested! Ps4 pro was the worst purchase of my gaming life... And the ps5 has not yet used its potential. There is absolutely no reason to a ps5 pro right now

@Nekomichu why was the pro a bad purchase.
I have 3.
Release black, glacier white, and the 500m LE translucent blue..

But I agree, we don't need a new PS5 yet, we need more console exclusives and bit just in the form of DLC

Wont be getting it....we are still getting PS4 releases for most games fs

It seems stupid to me to do this if it’s true, the PS5 just like the XSX have not been pushed to their limits at all! The only reasonable next gen game so far was the Dead Space remake, and only one game Ratchet seems to have used the PS5 SSD to its advantage.
How about they knock out tens of actual next gen games first that push the PS5 before launching a Pro model? But I don’t believe this rumour anyway. Only one I believe is the PS5 Slim.
And that fact any PS5 Pro will ,illegal cost 600 plus in the UK also makes it seem bogus.

means absolutely nothing since i have a PC now . a console is always gonna be a console & releasing pro models is kind of a scam and defeats the purpose .

@TheMightyImp2 It was God awful, didn’t improve much, a bit but not a massive difference, and it sounded like Concorde taking off every time you used it. Glad to see the back of mine when I sold it. Kept my OG model instead.

I believe that if I hadn't managed to buy a PS5 at launch based on the performance of PS1-PS4, I'd still be waiting for a reason to own one a regular PS5... let alone a PS5 Pro. The only game for the system I have that PS4 can't play is Plague Tale Requiem and that's third party. Sony has literally released nothing I care about on PS5 only. Maybe that'll have changed by the time a Pro comes out, but I have my doubts.

@anon_pel222 the upgrade is gonna be releasing another ps4 again since it was better in almost every way

@TheMightyImp2 I don't know if was only my case, but the whole firmware was less smooth, and above all the pro made a lot more noise... but like... a lot. And then I didn't appreciate so much improvement to justify the upgrade

@WallyWest this is what we were talking about. I said a Pro was all but confirmed. The question now is will it need a stand to lay flat? If not i am on it day one. I liked the refreshed models from MS and Sony last gen and hope it continues.

As someone who wasn't anxious to get the PS5 during the scalping period (first two years), and had firm plans to get the revised model later this year... This has put a serious wrench in my plans.
I would feel bad getting a base PS5 now, and yet the backlog of games I want to play on PS5 is piling up.....

@Feena If it means 4K AND 60fps with a sleeker design, bring it on

Thats what I’m talking about also. I want the performance and am happy to pay for it without having to go the PC route.

People are calling this bs but have they actually followed Tom Henderson's work?

It's just an optional purchase anyways - and It will sell regardless outside of the hardcore bubble that seem resistant to it.

Redfall, Plague Tale Requiem, Cyberpunk 2077, Ghostwire Tokyo and the latest Star Wars are perfect examples that a Pro console could be beneficial. Developers are struggling to reach 60fps and even at 30fps they are a mess.

It's also impossible for them to be 60fps with Ray Tracing in 4K, this gen of consoles are barely an upgrade over last gen consoles so if anything the rumoured "Pro" versions would actually be the real "next gen" consoles.

@TheMightyImp2

The Pro’s success came with what you do with it storage side, not what it offered out of the box.

It supported SATA III SSDs. Which significantly cut down load times in games with horrible opening load times like RDR II and TLOU Part II.

Other than that the only thing it really fixed was that it made Cyberpunk’s PS4 version actually playable.

@UltimateOtaku91

Let’s just absolve the developers of any responsibility huh?

The PS5 and Series X are huge upgrades over the PS4 and Xbone.

But developers are not even attempting to optimize. Don’t blame the consoles for developers not doing their jobs.

Jedi is actually the perfect example of what I’m talking about. The PC version essentially runs all out on two threads. With RT turned off the other cores (most CPUs are 8 core double threaded these days) are literally at idle. You turn on RT and the other cores hover at around 20% utilization. I doubt the console versions are optimized any better.

So the game isn’t even leveraging the hardware correctly. Of course it’s going to run like trash on the Series X and PS5.

In a properly coded game every single core and thread should be putting in heavy work. Like 80% utilization across all 8 cores.

On the consoles you are dealing with reduced CPU power compared to PC CPUs. The way you work around this is by multi threading each core and making sure they are being utilized.

If anything Pro version would be more focused into tech rather than raw performance improvements, things like RT, FSR and Freesync.

The problem here is that most of this could be also added to base PS5 via firmware updates and updates to Sony's API.

PushSquare please what is the definition of "reliable source"? In my eyes it is official govt/company statement. What is Yours?

I can't wait to read the comments, but I'd weigh in before I'm swayed by the conversation.

I'd get a ps5 pro if..

• I had a better TV to experience these graphical processing nuances. Right now, I have a TV that was bought because of an article stating it was a great bargain. So HDR (Not good), I don't know exactly what frames per second it can produce but probably just 60, it struggles in sun light, and so on. Maybe someone can tell me if a better TV would better utilize my ps5 based on a similar situation?
• Right now it seems as if you have to compromise in graphics settings. If ps5 pro offered to have my cake and eat it to (combining performance and quality) that would be a Quality of Life improvement I would have a hard time not taking.
• More MOD-friendly. Could we get a focus on getting PC modding to PS5? I would want them to invest in that
• Gameswapping and more room for applications. A more powerful machine could potentially entice engagement by promising better multimanagement and easier game start ups like on Xbox.

@UltimateOtaku91 more than half of those you mentioned released unfinished or unoptomized though. I get the point you are making, but don't mistake the growing trend of games releasing unfinished and without proper technical optimization as a need for newer hardware.

If anything the state of the PC space proves that more powerful hardware and emerging but inconsistent AI options have seemingly only translated into developers releasing games half baked, hoping the extra headroom or too heavily relying on AI to make up for lack of optimization. We see this with absurd system requirements for games that don't even look current Gen, or that run terribly and yet do not have the features or, Visuals that would justify why this is so.

It really suggest rushed/unfinished development in favor of financial calendar deadlines and release date profit maximization all at the expense of the gamers.

Redfall is a perfect example of this. Jedi survivor is a perfect example of this. Ghostwire Tokyo had serious optimization issues.

I also think the cyberpunk fraud had the opposite effect it should have. The game was fraudently marketed, initially Lied about by mainstream and many YouTube reviewers, and despite its backlash when all was revealed: they sold more during the release than most AAA quality releases do in their entirety.

To the intelligent gamer this was fraud, to the corporate strategist this was now a new option in the overall profit strategy...

We really need an independent third party QA cerification/regulatory process that ensures we arent being sold unfinished or broken products. We don't accept this in really any other transaction.

After so many lazy games which are released broken and buggy, we need more optimisation and better code, not more powerful hardware. We have barely seen what these consoles are capable of, we need some next gen games to actually release before we even think about other consoles. Most games are still cross gen. This is stupid and taking away some of the point of having fixed hardware. Will probably just buy a PC next gen or play on something like the Asus Ally as consoles are becoming pointless if this continues

Waiting for the redesigned slim model that comes in black.

I just can't believe this is even a conversation. Current-gen has barely started. RT, while nice, isn't the be-all. Plenty of games have Quality and Performance options to give the player a choice on how they want to enjoy the game.

Sony's studios have actually done a pretty decent job adding in 40Hz Modes and "Performance RT" modes.

I'm sorry to say, but AMD really hasn't put much into RT performance. Nvidia is killing it there - and even if you look at those cards, DLSS is essential at getting better framerates with RT. So throwing more AMD horsepower isn't going to help when AMD is barely a consideration for great RT performance on PC.

I know a Pro would be an option, but the optics surrounding it aren't good.

If anything, we need better upscaling techniques on consoles.

All that shiny stuff you see on PC with all the great RT effects aren't running natively at 4K and sometimes not even natively at 1440p. It's just that DLSS has advanced so much that no one even thinks about the base resolution anymore.

Now, if once UE5 engine games start to drop (or just more advanced game engines in general) and it's found that the PS5 doesn't have the horsepower to handle it, then I could see where a Pro might be needed. But I don't know that will be the case - I think there will still be Performance/Quality settings there as well (unless the developer is reaching to push the hardware as far as possible).

@Intr1n5ic The conversation about the pro consoles, whether it's PS, XB, or Nintendo, this gen or last gen, it's always the same dialog "yes, we need a Pro console, this console already struggles to run things at a stable fps, it already drops to low resolution we need a pro console that can run games at the standards that they told us is what the console we already bought is supposed to do!" Almost unanimously any support for the pro console is due to dissatisfaction with the current product not actually living up to what was promised, not because the pro console is adding something new beyond that, but the promise of getting closer to the original product's claims.

IMHO, Tom H. is not a "leaker" but rather an intentional component of Sony marketing. Step one: release rumor. Step two: evaluate current interest level and potential market share through social media response. Step three: adjust corporate strategy to capture largest market share possible.

Sony's marketing team is all over this like 70s Miles Davis on a pile of pure Peruvian flake. Guaranteed.

@UltimateOtaku91 Dude Star Wars is not good example when the best gaming PC's out there can't run it, the issue is Respawn not the hardware. Been playing Redfall all day (its not as bad as i thought but that's not saying much) and the issue again is a Dev thing, the game looks and plays like a last gen game and does nothing that should trouble a Series X. As for Cyberpunk? That plays and looks fine on current gen consoles, yes its not a perfect 60fps but that's won't change with a Pro console.

Ray Tracing and 60fps/4K are luxury things PC's way better then the PS5 have trouble with and its why many PC gamers go fir 1440p over 4K as it allows them higher framerates and RT. Console gamers really need to reset their expectations of what console gaming this Gen is and will be until its end.

I’m not buying it. The PS5 just barely got to the point that the average consumer (who doesn’t follow stock tracker websites) can find one. More power will never be the answer for lack of optimization—it’s just a band aid. Also, game development costs are out of control so developers are going to become more resistant to spending extra money on effects that most consumers will never notice (I’m not talking about hardcore gamers with optimized game setups).

I do believe that Sony R&D is working on the next thing. But I fully expect a PS5 slim (that’s cheaper to manufacture) will release before a pro version. The PS4 Pro was needed because of demand from 4K TVs but there’s nothing pushing people to ask for more from the PS5. With only like 3 PS5 exclusives, I can’t imagine Sony will launch upgraded hardware. It’s much more profitable for them to keep selling the PS5 for the considerable future.

@NEStalgia That conversation is limited to people who don't have a particularly good understanding of how much power is needed to achieve those figures for certain types of games. The PS5 already does native 4K at 60 for several, native 4K at 120 even for others. The problem is, some consumers thought it was going to do it for huge open world experiences like Horizon, at a $500 price point, which was never going to happen. That has nothing to do with the original products claims and everything to do with peoples knowledge of hardware capabilities at this price point.

It launched relatively underpowered compared to what you could create on a PC at the time to achieve mass market adoption, but there will always be a market for those who want more power, and as pointed out by others, developers will always welcome more as well.

The thing I don't understand is why people care so much about it being an option. It's a completely pointless topic to be bothered by if it's something that doesn't interest you.

Considering how tough it was for some to even get a PS5 in the first place (some recently at that) I can't imagine most would be to happy having to "upgrade" so soon.

@Intr1n5ic It's not a limited conversation though, it's almost unanimously the only reason any support of a "pro" model exists, is the idea that the base model is not living up to 4k60 promises. The last gen "Pro models" promised 4k60 as a standard, and it didn't happen. Then the new gen promised finally getting 4k60 as a standard. Now rumor is we'll be told that the new-gen-half gen is the one that will really do it (for just a repeat purchase at a higher markup and it's yours!) Which will of course not meet the expectation (and then more games will be delivered worse on base consoles because a pro "exists"), and then the next gen will be sold on the promise. It's a repeating cycle. They don't actually put the effort into delivering the promise and instead move to sell you a replacement item for more money that will claim the same promise. But only the gaming consumer actually puts up with that. No other industry would tolerate that market. It kind of works on PC because it's an accepted hardware treadmill where no purchase will satisfy more than 3 months ever. That's not a bad thing, but it's been like that for a long long time. This is new to the console space the idea that your console is a disposable rental on a hardware treadmill. If that's the route the industry is going, I'd say anyone that buys a launch model console is just a fool, the "real" generation starts years later when the "real" hardware arrives. Who would have gone nuts for the past 2 years buying a PS5 if they knew the "real" PS5 would launch in 2024 and their PS4 could play nearly all the same games? Making this a predictable cycle will hurt generational launches, though given the scalper issues maybe a sales decrease is a good thing.

@UltimateOtaku91 Not that I disagree on hardware but if they actually just throw away the gen before it even starts after selling hundreds of millions of consoles I'm officially calling the base model the PS-32X forever more.

@Andy22385 There's also been a monumental price increase on that level of PC hardware though. Consoles landing at over $1000 or even $750 isn't a good look.

Considering how many console's they've sold and will sell in that time, they'd already have a 30fps gen regardless. The majority of PS5s would not be Pros. If they don't want most of their players getting 30fps experiences they're going to have to focus on optimizing games for the base model either way, while increasing target platforms with a Pro.

Thing is, Jim was very giddy about the PS4 Pro at 6 mo in when 20% of PS4 sales were Pros and it overperformed expectations, talking about how some consumers just want the best pretty much because it exists, etc. But....then shortly after that they stopped talking about sales of Pro, and within 2 years they killed it. The Pro didn't really sell all that well overall despite the early adopters buying it quickly. And then it left a lot of costs in terms of multiple targets and test platforms, managing the licensing across the 2 platforms etc, and surely just cannibalized sales they otherwise would have had anyway.

@NEStalgia "It's not a limited conversation though, it's almost unanimously the only reason any support of a "pro" model exists, is the idea that the base model is not living up to 4k60 promises."

What promises are you talking about?. Where did they promise to always deliver 4k at 60fps on this hardware. On games where it's achievable we've seen 4k 60 and 4k 120, but if anyone thought that was going to be the case for everything, then they have a complete misunderstanding of what a £500 machines capabilities are.

"No other industry would tolerate that market. It kind of works on PC"

What???

"If that's the route the industry is going, I'd say anyone that buys a launch model console is just a fool, the "real" generation starts years later when the "real" hardware arrives."

Good lord you're dramatic. So there was no point to a PS5 purchase 2 and a half years ago because a more powerful version might arrive several years later, that's your position on this?

Errr, just like there was an upgrade to a 3080 and upgrade will come out for a 4080. $1,000 GPUs become "old" in 18 months

Software development (what games are) does not stand still, neither should the technology that runs it.

Consumers can decide if they want the upgrade or not. They can plan their own "hardware cycle"

Yeah, not really interested….

Ok how loud is the fan gonna be?

I’ll believe it once I hear it from Sony

@Intr1n5ic I'm thinking some of the distaste comes from having bought a system that was never fully utilized before a new system was available. That's, yeah, a bit of a blow. You waited out stock issues and scalpers and finally got your hands on the current gen and a year to year and a half later your console isn't really next gen at all. Meanwhile you got what, Demon Souls and Gotham Knights to show for it? If you don't see how that's kind of a kick in the teeth, idk man. Hell, I can easily afford a new console but geez I barely just got this one.

Also, Sony is banking on people's ignorance with their claims in regards to what the console can and can't do. I'm not sure I'd be too proud of taking their side on that strategy. Kind of with @NEStalgia on this one.

naaaaah, I'll wait for the PS6

@zupertramp You're talking as if it won't be fully utilised going forward, that they won't continue to get the most out of it until the end of this generation.

The situation with stock and scalpers absolutely sucked, but are you saying the option shouldn't exist for those who purchased day one because someone picked one up last week?

"Also, Sony is banking on people's ignorance with their claims in regards to what the console can and can't do."

They're not banking on anything. The console can do what it claims to do.

Bring it on. As gamers seem to say about almost any topic, the more options the better right?

What many are failing to realize is that there is a whole crowd out there that wants the premium experience and there is zero reason not to cater to them with a version of the console that mainly an enthusiast will care about and people who haven’t bought a PS5 yet will have a better option when jumping in.

The PS5 Pro, like the PS4 Pro, will be an optional upgrade for those who don’t want to choose between “Performance” and “Frame Rate” mode, have the disposable income for it, and care enough to begin with.

I’m thankful we’re in a newer console landscape where the Walmart bargain bin rooters can be served without sacrificing marketing premium quality to those who want it.

Much like PSVR2, this is an option to enhance the overall experience. If you don’t want any of this, great. You’ll still have a base launch console that will be supported for a decade like every PlayStation before it.

For those of us comfortable spending the cash on getting the best, I’m all for it.

@Agramonte The "hardware cycle" is the whole entire reason of buying consoles instead of PCs though. If doing the whole non-stop upgrade path, why not just end consoles, everyone plays on PCs, everyone choses their own hardware cycles, everyone gets to buy from more than one digital ecosystem....

@Intr1n5ic Why would anybody (at least adults reasonably responsible with money, not teenagers that just spend spend spend on whatever the hot new item is) spend $500 on a 2-3 year placeholder that's never really utilized for much to wait for the real product to arrive? The expectation of that is half of what killed Sega's consoles. People just learned to wait for the next thing.

Unless we're moving into the cell phone cycle of new hardware every other year and the end of the idea of generations, and it just becomes PC cyle of never-ending hardware upgrades. Which I'm not even entirely against, if that's the real cycle and one define their own timeline between upgrades. But that also becomes a mess. A scenerio where there's no such thing as "PS6" there's just PS5 - 2028 ver. with different res/fps/particle settings for the 2024 ver and 2020 ver.... , pretty much like Agra said, but also like I said to Agra above, then why even bother with consoles, there's not really a point anymore.

The current gen set a standard of 4k/60 early on. MS said it in so many words about their consoles (where the pro console discussion also exists identically with the rumors etc.) I can't recall if Sony said it or implied it but that's not really a counterargument. The idea is they didn't tell customers "this is what this console does occasionally until it doesn't because inefficient software will really be designed around the next model that's better" it says "this is why PS5 is great." With an asterisk that says "in a future revision." Consoles aren't PCs. theres not an expectation of continuous hardware upgrades yet. And again, if it does go that route, there's really not much point to consoles anymore. Why buy a new PS5 every few years for the "current current gen" when PC exists? The point of consoles is they aren't that.

@Agramonte

THIS!

@Intr1n5ic yes games will continue to get better whilst leaving the base PS5 behind. Just seems like a bizarre strategy. And absolutely anyone can buy whatever they want day 1 or day 2000... I guess what leaves me a little bewildered is selling a revamp 4 years into a console cycle that was hobbled for 2 years.

And idk, kinda feel like you're saying some consumers expected 4k/60fps on everything when they shouldn't have but also the console achieves what it claims it can do which is 4k/60fps. You don't see any room for misrepresentation there, depending on the consumer's knowledge?

@NEStalgia "Why would anybody (at least adults reasonably responsible with money, not teenagers that just spend spend spend on whatever the hot new item is) spend $500 on a 2-3 year placeholder that's never really utilized for much to wait for the real product to arrive?"

What's your definition of "utilised", because I've utilised the f**k out of mine. And what does the "real product" mean exactly?

"I can't recall if Sony said it or implied it but that's not really a counterargument."

You not being able to recall if it was even said is not a counter argument to you stating that they promised 4k 60 as a standard?

It's not that deep. There will probably be a more powerful version available for those who want it. If you're not one of them, cool. If you're not one of them and you want to waste your finite time complaining on the internet about why it even exists, you do you.

@zupertramp Leave it behind where? How much more powerful do you think a pro version is going to be that it will make the base version completely obsolete? I would be willing to bet that the advantages won't be significant enough for most to justify upgrading. There will however, definitely be a market for those who want the more powerful version regardless.

And sure there's room for misinterpretation if you don't have the knowledge, but isn't that the case for a multitude of things in life. Did you want them to put labels on the box detailing exactly what type of games they think will be able to do 4k 60 for the next 8 years?

Good!

Make it powerful enough to give me 60fps and Ray Tracing in one mode and I will be happy.

@Intr1n5ic You could have "utilized the f**k" out of your real version of PS4 (Pro) while you waited for the real version of your PS5 (Pro) just fine. If the launch console is always going to be the inferior version of the generation, why buy it and not just only buy the eventual "actual PS4/5 (Pro)"? People did it last time because it was a new idea and 4k happened. If it's predictably going to happen every gen, and everyone knows the launch version is the worst version, the value of the launch version drops considerably. Again, see also Sega 32X, Sega CD, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast in rapid succession. People learned quickly to just wait for the next better one shortly after. It had a negative effect on the platform. I'm not saying Sega and Sony are in similar overall positions, but I don't see Sony intentionally duplicating a business strategy that helps deteriorate the FOMO effect they currently benefit from, when the Pro model last time also failed to set the charts on fire after the early adopter stage and they mostly stopped talking about its sales.

@Intr1n5ic I mean we're two years in and it already can't do 4k 60 for what amount to ps4 games. Like, do we need a more powerful console or just time to optimize games for the console that exists is kinda all I'm wondering. Yes, obviously down the road the specs will be grossly insufficient but should they already be? And if so, were consumers not somewhat mislead? So if anyone were asking my opinion, which they aren't, I'd say maybe let's not throw a 5 Pro into an already muddled generation.

But Sony will do what they do. Given the lack of enthusiasm for the PS4 pro, though, I'd be surprised if a PS5 Pro were in the cards. I've been wrong before.

@NEStalgia You could have "utilized the f**k" out of your real version of PS4 (Pro) while you waited for the real version of your PS5 (Pro) just fine.

Could I? So continuing to listen to my console sound like a jet engine on any mildly demanding game would have been just fine. Continuing to experience the annoyance of long load times on everything I play would have been just fine. Not getting to experience Demons Souls, Returnal, and Ratchet and Clank for 4 years would have been just fine. Not being able to play Spiderman 2, FF 16 and FF 7 Rebirth this year would have been just fine. Not being able to purchase my psvr2 and enjoy GT7 as I have been daily for the last two months, all just fine.

I said this to you once before but it's worth repeating, you have a habit of speaking on the behalf of others as if it were fact. You should try speaking for just yourself instead of stating what others want or would be fine with.

Phuck that...

The only games that will benefit from this is the first party games, everyone else are just going to do enough.

No point sinking $600+. Dont you guys do it ppl, no matter how wow'd you guys are.

A Pro version was inevitable but I definitely won't be getting one. My launch PS5 is good enough for me.

@Intr1n5ic You're going out of your way to denounce perspectives, including historical background on the effect of such things in the long term, including declaring that only the uninformed should have had any expectations beyond what was delivered, while BOTH the groups in favor of and against hold their opinion predominantly out of the opinion that the current product is not delivering on expectations currently, and then claiming it's the opposition that's speaking for others? I think you're confusing speaking in concert with others as speaking for others.

I don't think there will be a PS5 Pro, but if they do bring one out I will buy it. Just like the Switch Pro rumors this is bs. I do need a 2nd PS5 so I can retire the bedroom PS4 Pro.

If a pro comes out surely it’ll be £600+ which imo is ridiculous for a home console…

@NEStalgia Have we moved past you telling me I would have been just fine sticking with my "real" PS4 Pro?.

Are you now speaking for me again, because I'm in favour of a pro version of the PS5 even though the current product is delivering on my expectations.

Edit: It's 22:15 here so I'll reply to any comment regarding other things I want or would be fine with tomorrow.

Still hoping to see a PS5 slim. But I'll believe it when I hear it from Sony.

The Only Pro console I'm buying is a Nintendo Switch Pro. I'm perfectly happy with my PS5. The only way I'll upgrade to a more advanced console is if I buy an 8K TV first, and that's not happening anytime soon.

@NEStalgia the 4060ti for instance is launching at what 450..now what would be the price once the 50 series are out next year. That would definitely be possible in a pro model and absolutely below 600, which given the ps5 is 500 I'd say it's reasonable and it offers a massive increase to what we have now. Sure the top cards are ridiculous in price but we'd never be looking at those in console anyway.

@Dodoo I mean a PS3 was that price in 2006, that's pushing 1000 now. People paid it even then

Desperately need more performance.

The shambles of game releases in the last 6 months says it all.

Granted a lot of that was just poor optimisation from incompetent developers, but it's clear we are hitting the buffers.

Getting 60fps out of games will become increasing harder, and even at 30fps, games are running at seriously low resolutions and pushing the limits of how much they can be upscaled, even with AI etc, without looking awful.

Pro can't come come soon enough. Those who don't care about performance/graphics, can sit there nice and happy with their base models. I'd especially look forward to a pro enhancing PSVR2, with less reprojection and utilising higher refreshes etc.

My whole thing about a PS5 Pro is they haven't really justified that yet because there have been very few PS5 only games, and I'd argue none of them really maximized the potential of the current hardware, so we don't need a whole new, more powerful system just yet.

Part of the reason I feel that way is their insistence on cross releasing games on PS4/PS5. If they decided to finally leave PS4 behind, then waited say about 2 years of PS5-only releases, I'd be open to a Pro. It's just too early for me.

PS4 Pro made a little more sense back then because it introduced 4k, which was badly needed at the time. Can't think of a use case argument for a PS5 Pro at this particular juncture.

@SgtTruth

I see some people want that 4k/60fps but I don't think that's out of the question on the current hardware (at least dynamic 4k/60fps). Like you said, I think devs just poorly optimize their games combined with a culture of releasing unfinished stuff, and that's why we see the performance issues on new releases. Do we really need new hardware already when devs haven't fully tapped the current PS5? Seems a bit early when we haven't even seen what the box we already have can really do.

@NintendoEternity There's never going to be a Pro version of the Switch. But there will be a Switch 2 someday.

@Andy22385 There was two versions of the ps3 at launch, at $500 and $600.

@XenonKnight indeed, but that's gotta be pushing 800 now. Imagine base PS5 was that price

@IOI I agree with you about the pro being bs news. Sony hasent even started making money off the ps5 hardware or break even their still selling it at a loss. Also we just don't need it ! Their would be minum increase in specs .. These people who are wanting these midgen upgrades buy a PC so you can upgrade and keep up to date that's what I do. Let me tell you even on their that hasent been leap in bounds in tech since the ps5 launched.

@Lexluther23 In August 2021 Sony announced the PS5 disk edition was no longer being sold at a loss:

http://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit

I’ll be surprised if the digital edition doesn’t also sell at a profit now too.

I was annoyed when the PS4 Pro came out, especially when it was just two GPUs in "Crossfire" mode and didn't equal doubling frame rates like we might have expected. It was still technically 4k and 30FPS. I didn't really see the benefit.

So, colour me sceptical on a PS5 Pro. What are we going to get, exactly? I haven't seen anything that's pushed the PS5 to the limits. It's still as quiet as a mouse. 4k@60FPS is commonplace (as it should be).

Will it be all the ray tracing stuff turned on at 4k/60? Will that really be worth the extra cost and new SKU? There's little point in adding 8k support in this generation.

@Vacuumator refreshes have happened in every console. Just not to the extent of the PS4 PRO.

PS1, most notably, original and the slim, tech advancements made the slim half the size of original. Other iterations happened with different ports in the back as tech grew.

This Gen also give us the Dual Analog and DualShock (same year). Alot of games needed this controller so technically many were locked out of games if they didn't get one.

PS2, Original and the slim. Later down the line they made a network adapter and a 40gb harddrive which allowed to store its files and increased loading times. They made a tv ps2 combo released in the US and also a video capturing capabilities PS2 but never released in the West. between all these were different models with different inputs as tech grew or went away.

PS3, Fat, Slim, super slim.
But throughout the generation they got rid of backwards compatability, they slowly grew in harddrive size and by the time they got to the super slim the tech had advanced enough to allow for alot more sustainable components.

So they didn't have a huge sing and dance the improvements they made in the other versions as they were more subtle, compared to the fast jump to 4k.

The money side, it just doesn't work like that, you've just simplified everything. Yes money is time and more time creates a better game and more polished in Theory. But give me an example where a First Party Studio Game hasn't been polished and isn't a better game than their last?

I'll give you one.... Days Gone, more money than pretty much every studio, more time than every studio and still that game came out and wasn't great (I personally enjoyed it but it was rough at the beginning).

Japan Studio's Last Guardian. More years than I can count, more money wasted on the long development. By the time it came out, it couldn't ever recoup the money spent and was quite outdated.

So instead of thinking money is the answer to great games, its more trusting a developer to deliver on their vision. Money doesn't make a great game its the great team behind it.

Example Star Citizen nearly a billion dollars they have had and still isn't even finished.

Redfall example isn't about money, they didn't have to release it, someone made them. They have only just released DeathLoop, in the grand scheme of things and they have the money with Microsoft backing them. So this just shows money doesn't equal better.

Sony literally have the best tech in the world to create the best video games, with there sound studios and the world famous capture suite which they rent out to many third party developers.

Yet they have invested lots of money into new studios, in the last couple of years.

R&D is a whole other entity, they are probably building the PS6 as we speak and they probably have a small team tinkering with the PS5 making it better, probably stumbled onto something worth doing with a PS5 PRO. I believe the team used to be called ICE.

Consoles are always going to compete with PC because the graphics cards inside consoles are from the big players in the PC World. So what they do on the PC side helps the console side. There are so many players in making a console not just internal Sony.

I hope that helps.

The value proposition is nonexistent. If anything it will make the regular PS5 cheaper, which is a plus.

Almost every game I play today I can play at 60fps or better on my 5 year old graphics card. The PS5 is more than capable. Having a PS5+ with say 6700XT-ish performance will sound nice but all these studios are building their PS editions around support for the original PS4 in almost every case.

You aren't seeing low FPS/performance due to the machine being uanble handle it. You are getting under 60 because the game developers decided they don't care to target 60 on console. You could have a PS5+ be more powerful than a PS7 and it can only do what the game lets it. The only reason XSX games all hit 60 is backend stuff from Microsoft to upscale.

Try for example most EA or any Ubisoft game from last gen. On PS5 you only get 900-1080p at 30 FPS to this day because the developers locked it in... you can have a 5-6 year old GPU and run it over 60 at 1440p easily. The machine has nothing to do with it.

@NEStalgia

"nonstop upgrade path" is up to the consumer.

I never upgraded to a PS4 PRO or a Switch Oled or a 4080 or 13900K. Steam top cards still include 1650s and 1070s. Just because a new part "exists" is not a reason to upgrade for many PC gamers either.

Let consumer decide - no need for an artificial 10 year development ban.

And consoles will continue to exist because of Windows. Microsoft's Mickey-ware still cant reliably "Suspend" a game to this day.

@Agramonte it's up to the consumer sure but it's still a non-stop upgrade path where previously, with consoles, that was not the nature of the business. There was no path for upgrades until the next cycle.

What you describe with PCs is yes a non-stop upgrade path whether every consumer buys the new part or not.

@NeonPizza I think we all know that's the case for YOU But what you're describing is an extreme niche of money-no-object enthusiasts which is generally not at all the console market, and is, honestly, even an extreme fringe of the PC market. The kind of person that just says "ohh, $3000 new toy" isn't even normal, or even common in the PC world, and you're jumping a decade or two ahead of yourself on the 90/120fps thing. The consoles aren't even reliably or without major res/gfx drops hitting 60, and I 100% guarantee you even if Pro exists, it's all about 60fps, and while a handful of indie/arcade (and of course VR) focused games will aim for that 90 mark, I don't think you'll find most games shooting for over 60 any more than already are.

I'm not say there are NO customers who are otherwise PC-first who would also have the best PS because why not, but what's more debatable is whether doing full R&D, setting up production lines, part purchases, alternate distribution systems and then an entire industry of licensing/testing/mandating devs support and test another target device and dev kit is justified by placating that very tiny market.

Again I go back to PS4 Pro. They were all starry eyed in the first 6 months when they launched it, it was 20% of hardware sales, it greatly outperformed expectations and Jim had his all time best quote where he pretty much declared gamers to be irrational and buying things just to have the best/newest. But then after that early adopter wave ended it just kind of died. They stopped even talking sales numbers, it only stayed on the market 2 years. Nothing really indicates PS4 Pro was very successful. If anything it was like Vita, a marketing blitz for a year, it then kind of silently failed, and they never really talked about it again.

Even as you describe "sell the old one" - that means a lot of sales of the Pro to upgraders are just cannibalizing sales of the regular model with higher cost to deliver and higher costs to manufacture such that the slight difference in margin isn't likely worth it. I get that to enthusiasts, particularly PC enthusiasts "buy this year's model, it's always the best!" makes sense, but....it really doesn't have much backing in the console space.

If anything it tells me console is entering a death spiral where they're just becoming PCs with all the same problems as PCs which were the reasons people played console to begin with, and cloud replacements can't come soon enough.

@Agramonte If developers are struggling to produce one target that performs optimally, and are already whining about having 2 targets with Microsoft, now imagine the fun when they have 4 targets just on the big too consoles. If they can't be bothered to optimize for ONE PS5, do you honestly think they'll optimize for two?

We're back to the PC problem: No matter the code problem just replace all your hardware and brute force it! Console couldn't get away with that before. Now we're pushing that it should. You don't want the 2024 console, the 2025 console is just around the corner! But then just wait for the 2026 console that will run it all ALMOST at 60fps! (for that year anyway.)

After 7+ years of multiple PS5, who'd be excited for PS6?

Again, unless we really drop generations and go with a 2-3 year upgrade cycle, drop the old one after 9, or 12 years or something from mandatory support and whatnot and there will never ever be a PS6....I suppose I could embrace that.

@Andy22385 true!

@NeonPizza spot on, it doesn't affect anyones experience in the slightest who has the original PS5, they can play every game and they got what they paid for. For the enthusiast who want a bit more power what's the issue with them having an upgrade. I just want to take more advantage of the monitor I have. I couldn't imagine going 8 years between consoles now, especially with how much graphics cards have come on since the PS5 was indevelopment. The power upgrades are astonishing.

@NeonPizza Exactly right. I try not to get in to these conversations online because at times it feels like I'm talking to people whose mindset is, I don't want or need this, therefore why would anyone else.

@NEStalgia

There were games that ran awful on Ps2, PS3, Ps4 just like ones on Switch. Having 1 option was never a golden age when talking about optimization.

I rather go by history than on a prediction. PS4pro never prevented me from keeping my PS4 for the entire generation. Publisher kept supporting the "baseline" game just fine (they still supporting it today) If anything, the mid gen "enhanced" version is where developers cut corners.

Horizon Burning Shores on my PS5/4KTV is stunning to me. If that is the new baseline game for console play. I see no need to upgrade (Ps5 or TV) any time soon.