@colonelkilgore The user score can be ignored, since it's easily manipulated by trolls and online brigading, but the critical consensus score is... just that, an aggregate based on critical review scores, and should only matter when it comes to discussions of how well-received a game was critically. Putting aside the occasional kink in the system, of course.
Unless you consider professional reviewers to be the rightful arbiters of all things good and beautiful, then it shouldn't matter when it comes to how good you think a particular game is, of course.
@nomither6 Mario games have always reviewed well, especially 3D ones. GTA V has its issues. You have to understand that reviews often just review how well a game achieves what it is trying to accomplish. Reviews usually aren’t comparing games to other games.
@Ralizah so it definitely counts as a reflection of how a game is received by critics of course... but I was more referring to the countless articles referring to the sheer amount of 10 out of 10 scores it received... as well as just the 'way' reviewers discussed the game. I watched a few back the other day as I'm getting psyched to see the sequel... and I honestly don't think I've ever seen that much gushing from professional reviewers.
@colonelkilgore I think there’s a certain type of video game that’s ‘made for critics’ though, same as movies. You have your Spielberg, which are pretty much reviewed above a certain level due to familiarity and being technically good while perhaps not taking as many risks. Then you have your arthouse films that can vary massively in quality but often push the boundaries harder than your blockbusters. There’s plenty cult classics in video games too but God of War is a technical marvel without perhaps pushing boundaries as much as some less great games. God of War’s a fantastic game but probably not in my ‘favourite’ games as I’m one of those weirdos that identifies more with flawed games with hints of genius. But I can understand why it would review well if you were asked to give it a score out of 10.
You have to understand that reviews often just review how well a game achieves what it is trying to accomplish. Reviews usually aren’t comparing games to other games.
That makes sense , but GTA achieves the 3 core things people expect from it well - sandbox world , story , online . whereas mario odyssey is a single-player story game right ? i think GTAV should have the upper-hand based on the sheer content it has , and does well in all .
@nessisonett@colonelkilgore Also, it's part of a popular, long-running series, and critics are just as susceptible to fanboy-ish bias as ordinary players are. Just look at the reviews for Breath of the Wild. I mean, I LOVE that game, but it's not some untouchable masterpiece that descended from on high or something.
I do agree that Sony's biggest games are often designed in such a way that they play particularly well with most critics, too. GoW2018 is very fun when it's just being a game, but it also has that cinematic Naughty Dog quality to it that annoys the hell out of me but plays particularly well with critics.
@nomither6 It's not a story game, no. It's a single-player semi-sandbox platformer.
Anyway, it doesn't make sense to dock points for a game not having online multiplayer functionality when that wouldn't reasonably fit in with the game overall, lol.
Besides, GTA IV was single-player only and also scored highly. So do most of Sony's games. And Zelda games. And so on. Not everything needs to have an online component to it.
@nessisonett@Ralizah so apart from the fact I rate it (GoW 2018) at #2 all-time and meta-critic has it at #72… how does it (the GoW series) fare in terms of the reason for this thread?
@Ralizah ''It's not a story game, no. It's a single-player semi-sandbox platformer.'' - the single-player experience isn't based on completing a story ? the only modern 3D mario game i've played was super mario galaxy , and it seemed like an semi-open world story game to me. no different than the classic god of war games that had puzzles and platforming elements incorporated into the single-player campaign .
''Anyway, it doesn't make sense to dock points for a game not having online multiplayer functionality when that wouldn't reasonably fit in with the game overall, lol.'' --its not about docking points , if by that you mean taking away . i'm saying that since GTAV most likely has more content than odyssey , and exceeds on all fronts , it should have the upper-hand ; aren't games also rated by the amount of content it has ? im speaking impartially here ; if you have two good games , but one also has more options i.e more to do , then why not give more points for it ? odyssey didn't lose any at all in that scenario .
''Besides, GTA IV was single-player only and also scored highly.'' — GTA4 had online and downloadable content.
''Not everything needs to have an online component to it.'' --- thats literally not the point at all . my entire point is that GTAV has more to offer to a player , and whether they like it or not , its entirely optional and still there as content. you may say GTAV doesn't offer more to YOU , personally . but objectively speaking , if were judging a game , we have to be objective , its not about personal tastes . just being fair .
@colonelkilgore That’s an interesting one. I’d say God of War 2018 was one of the best games Sony have published but I wouldn’t in any way say that it was a great franchise personally as I wasn’t that big on the rest of the series. I honestly don’t have that many feelings towards that whole group of franchises that started in the late PS2 and early PS3 like Killzone, God of War, Infamous, Resistance etc. I think of great Playstation series and it’s Gran Turismo, Tekken, Silent Hill, even Parappa the Rapper.
@nomither6 If video games were rated mostly based on the amount of content they offered, then all companies would just make 100+ hour games and cram as much stuff into them as possible. It's more about the overall experience and finding the right balance for "just enough" of content.
I recently played through Forza Motorsport 5. The game easily has the most amount of content in terms of its career mode. However, it's just the same races but with different cars. Furthermore, there are only a dozen tracks and over 300 races. It was one of the worst Forza Motorsport career modes I've ever experienced simply because they decided to compensate for the lack of tracks by repeating the same races over and over again.
Content has to be meaningful, otherwise it just worsens the overall product. And GTA V has plenty of meaningless content, especially in its online component. But even if it did have flawless content, the game would still be rated based on how well it does what it seeks out to do. And the more stuff you put into a game, the higher the expectations will become. GTA V could be rated 10/10 for its story mode alone, but if it adds an online component and it turns out to be bad, then the rating of the product as a whole will be lowered, even if the story mode is phenomenal.
@nomither6 Super Mario Odyssey has a premise and a barebones narrative thread to connect its worlds and setpieces. That's about it. I wouldn't call that a "story game," personally.
You understand Metacritic is just a review aggregator, right? These critics aren't being told: "Super Mario Odyssey vs GTA V: choose one, and only one!" The games aren't being directly pitted against one-another.
Anyway, one game having more content than another (however we're defining that) shouldn't mean anything when it comes to how highly-rated it is. More content doesn't mean a "better" game, frankly, and, as I pointed out, most of the games with the highest average critical score don't even have much, if anything, in the way of online content.
@colonelkilgore I've only played GoW1 and half of GoW2018 (so far). Didn't like GoW1 at all. GoW2018 is fun, but, so far, it wouldn't be a top ten sorta game for me.
Objectively speaking, GoW is a consistently high-selling and critically-acclaimed franchise going back generations, so I imagine it must rate highly for a lot of people.
Like I said before, my choice for "great Playstation franchises" would be:
Silent Hill
Persona
Monster Rancher
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear Solid
I'd probably toss in Gravity Rush as well, despite how short-lived it was.
@Ralizah I can agree on Metal Gear Solid… and although I’ve only played VII Remake & XV (& knowing the reception most of the entries that I haven’t played received) I’d agree with Final Fantasy too. Obviously, no two people will see everything the same… but that’s decent going I reckon.
@LtSarge ''If video games were rated mostly based on the amount of content they offered, then all companies would just make 100+ hour games and cram as much stuff into them as possible. It's more about the overall experience and finding the right balance for "just enough" of content.''
-pretty much made sure i implied that in all my responses ; of course the content has to be good . i said that gtav offers more content and exceeds on all fronts at what it tried or did do - thats why i think it should be rated higher . because the more content that it does offer , its actually good - so why not give it the more points it deserves ? quality is definitely better than quantity any day , but if the game also has quality-quantity(lol) , then thats even better .
''Content has to be meaningful,'' — agreed .
''And GTA V has plenty of meaningless content, especially in its online component. '' — well , it is an 8 year old PS3 game . I believe for it's time a lot of the content was at the best that a console could possibly offer/allow at the time . if mario odyssey was ever rated higher for that reason of GTAV being old as dirt these days , then thats understandable .
''But even if it did have flawless content, the game would still be rated based on how well it does what it seeks out to do.'' ---yes , i know , im all about being objective here.
''GTA V could be rated 10/10 for its story mode alone, but if it adds an online component and it turns out to be bad, then the rating of the product as a whole will be lowered, even if the story mode is phenomenal.'' — you're preaching to the choir .
@Ralizah ''You understand Metacritic is just a review aggregator, right? These critics aren't being told: "Super Mario Odyssey vs GTA V: choose one, and only one!" The games aren't being directly pitted against one-another.'' — yes , & i admit that it escaped my mind for a second .
''Anyway, one game having more content than another (however we're defining that) shouldn't mean anything when it comes to how highly-rated it is. More content doesn't mean a "better" game, frankly, and, as I pointed out, most of the games with the highest average critical score don't even have much, if anything, in the way of online content '' — lol , its not about online , but i hear you ; agreed .
Just to throw in my two cents in this discussion, I think the greatest PlayStation franchises would have to be ones that have had so many consistently great entries as well as been long-running. So my choices would be:
Metal Gear Solid
Kingdom Hearts
Resident Evil
Yakuza
Metal Gear Solid and Kingdom Hearts are easy picks for me just because how well-rooted the franchises are in PlayStation and how in-depth they are. The lore is just vast and it makes you truly appreciate the attention to detail these franchises have received over the span of two decades. I'm still relatively new to Resident Evil but even I can appreciate the history it shares with PlayStation. The PS1 trilogy is phenomenal, REmake was also phenomenal and RE0 was fairly good all things considered. I haven't played RE4 yet, but I know that game had such a huge influence on the gaming industry. Then we got RE5 and 6 which weren't that good but the series managed to find its way back with RE7 and 8. So overall, I think RE deserves a spot with MGS and KH. Yakuza is a tough one because it's been receiving one phenomenal entry after another mostly during the PS4 era but not so much in the previous generations. The PS3 titles were great though, even if they didn't reach the same heights as the PS4 ones. But I still feel like Yakuza is another deeply rooted franchise in PlayStation, even if most people discovered it only recently (including me).
Final Fantasy fits in here as well, it's just that I don't like the franchise that much (yet) to put it in my list, lol. Hopefully down the line, I'll play more of the series and see if that changes my mind.
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