Topic: The TV Show Thread

@Th3solution I know i'm not the resident Marvel afficionado, but i've definitely watched my fair share over the years. Did you see WandaVision? I quite liked that a few years ago, maybe the the best of all the movie spin offs? It was also like they fleshed out that certain segment in Saints Row 4 haha you'll know what I mean if you know the bit I mean. It's a classic trope done well and it tied in to one or two of the bigger movies. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

Jessica Jones had real potential and dealt with some pretty mature themes like mental health, addiction, abuse, but the fact it's part of this extended New York quad or even Quintrilogy of other hero shows I think they backed themselves in to a corner by having all of that going on after. Tie-ins to less interesting shows diluting everything for everyone and for me it was too much to bother keeping up with that whole NY universe 😬 I'd highly recommend the first season though for those well done matute aspects, and for David Tennant's character.

The extended NY thing was probably why I couldn't keep up with Daredevil too. I lasted maybe 2 seasons. I can't remember how much courtroom drama it included, but perhaps not enough for me. It could of been out at a similar time to when Better Call Saul was out too, and when there's something far superior it's sometimes hard to enjoy the usual decent to pretty good shows when something outstanding makes everything pale in comparison.

@PegasusActual93 hehehe, an understandable reaction. I think they missed an opportunity doing it this way, but it's been executed to perfection, so I'm not complaining.

@Ravix <harumph> Just checked Disney+ and they proudly stated "S2 coming April 25th". WTF?! Three days after it everyone else gets it? Annoying... they probably do it to have time making Norwegian (and other Scandinavian) subtitles. I get it, though. While I don't need subs (well, I do, because of reduced hearing, but I use English subs anyway), I guess I would be pi$$ed off if I was someone who didn't speak English and it was there but I couldn't watch it. Probably generates a few angry support emails.

@Th3solution Of the ones you mention and based on the fact that you didn't love Daredevil s1, I think maybe Jessica Jones s1 is the only one I would wholly recommend. I thought that was really good. I also liked Echo, so if you saw Hawkeye (I assume you did, as it wasn't on your list), you may be familiar with the backstory for that one (though I think it stands well enough on its own).

X-Men animated came out when I was in my early twenties and I never watched it, so I have not seen X-Men 97 either. I've tried to get into the original series awaiting the new one, but it just didn't gel for me. I think that is one where your enjoyment may be tied closely to how fond memories you have of the original.

Circling back to the Netflix shows, I liked them all to some degree, but I felt, outside of casting, they were mostly wasted opportunities, the first season of JJ being the exception. Even the derided Iron Fist had its moments, mainly because of Jessica Henwick and Simone Missick delivering excellent versions of Colleen Wing and Misty Knight, AKA "The Daughters of the Dragon". They were my favourite part of the entire Netflix mess. Their Punisher proved that Bernthal is an awesome Frank Castle, but I the show they put him in lacked something I can't quite put my finger on. So, I would also hold off on Born Again until you've given Netflix DD another go and maybe checked out the other seasons and shows, should you decide to do so. I don't think you'll like Born Again much better than Netflix Daredevil, so you're not missing much if you still don't like Netflix DD, but should you develop a liking for the latter, then Born Again will be a better experience having seen the other seasons anyway (I would also add a Punisher watch, should that be the case... Bernthal is a really good Punisher)

Agatha All Along was fine, but I didn't love it. Kathryn Hahn is a treasure and the cast is great, but it felt very disjointed to me. What If...? was a very mixed bag and I would give it a miss unless you're really into the Multiverse angle (to be fair, What If...? is probably the place they come closest to doing it right, IMO, but they are too dependant on the MCU movies for it to really spread its wings)

Those are my long-winded thoughts on the list you provided. Worth adding that one of the things that soured me on the Netflix shows a bit was that I wished they would embrace the source material more and not shy away from the fact that they were adapting costumed crimefighters from comic books. They seemed almost ashamed of the source material at times. So if you prefer your superheroes deconstructed, gritty and realistic, this may actually hit the spot

Whatever you go for, I hope you have a good time with it

@Ravix Thanks for the info. And yes, I did watch WandaVision and quite liked it. Honestly I haven’t disliked any of the Marvel shows that I’ve seen. Moon Knight was probably my least favorite so far, but it was actually okay too. Oh and Ms Marvel was also mid-tier, and I’ll give it credit for its unique style and diverse cast, but it was a little too teenage-girly for my tastes. Still, it was worth a watch. But I do think WandaVision was probably the peak. Loki, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and Hawkeye weren’t too far behind. I even liked She-Hulk. I give Marvel credit for at least trying to keep things fresh with various stylistic choices and creative approaches to the shows, even if a lot of them don’t quite land.

And that’s where the Netflix Marvel-verse feels like it’s come up short, as the shows seem overly gritty and take themselves quite serious, as @FuriousMachine alluded to.

And thanks for your insight too, Furious, that helps narrow things down. I’ll keep Echo as an option because I did actually enjoy Hawkeye. And since Rav has recommended Jessica Jones S1 also, that will likely be my first stop if I venture into Marvel shows in the near future. I watched the first episode several years ago when it released and felt slightly confused as to what was going on, but honestly I wasn’t totally committed and so I think I need to try again. I think going in with appropriate expectations will help. These shows are Marvel in name, but I think I need to realize the colorful costumed hero aspects of the IP is not going to arrive and so I’ll probably enjoy them more if I’m not expecting Chris Pratt, Robert Downey Jr, and various CGI effects to fill the screen.

yeah, the new york or hell kitchens heroes isnt avengers happy go lucky heroes. Its feels more like a normal people getting powers, but you are still living a hard life. I love marvel but the Avengers are a pretty bland bunch of people. Hulk makes my day in those movies, until thanos ruins the day. Go Daredevil. By the way if you like Xmen, you will like the animation series old and new

@Th3solution Only happy to help I remember one specific bit from the Netflix shows that annoyed me. I don't remember which show and the exact details, but I think it was DD were the showrunners included a classic villain from the old comic days that was quite silly, so they made him a decrepit old man that had nothing in common with the character other than the character's real name and then shuffled him off so the character couldn't be used again without breaking canon (I think maybe they killed him, too, but I'm a bit hazy on that). Sure, it was probably intended to be a nod to the comic fans, but it felt more like a middle finger to me.

And, yay! Another one that didn't hate She-Hulk! We're few, but a merry few, my friend!

@FuriousMachine weird. I checked out Disney tonight and instead of it being out now it says 23rd. Don't know if it's a middle of the night release to time it up with the US folk getting to see it. Can't see why it'd be an even later date for you though, really, at most it should be related to the same release time GMT+1, 2 etc

@Ravix Like I said, most likely due to not getting the episodes early enough to have subs made in time.

@FuriousMachine yeah, I was just thinking they'd surely just release it and then add subtitles for those who need it at a later date. I don't know, really. Never thought about it before. I don't even know how many languages they dub for new releases, there must be places it comes out where accessibility and language options get added post release though, because it'd be pretty impossible to cover all bases 🤷‍♂️ and a lot of people in Europe speak English better than the English to boot!

As there is also a 'delayed' release in the UK (because we have to wait for Americans to get home and have access to it 😤)... decided to watch The Last of Us tonight instead 😁

@Ravix Max and Apple TV+ always release day and date here with their originals, subtitles or no, but Disney+ have some annoying delays. "Daredevil: Born Again" only had a next day delay, which I can live with, but three days behind greatly increases risk of spoilers, especially for high profile shows. Really annoying.

Seems all my gnashing of teeth over the delayed release of Andor S2 here was for naught, for in spite of it clearly saying that new episodes would be available on the 25th, three days later than elsewhere, the three first episodes are indeed available today. Well played, Disney+, well played.

@FuriousMachine haha, I suspected as much. Good news it is actually releasing for you. And I'm sure it wasn't a simple misread of 23 and 25 😉 PushSquare watch party tonight then 😛

And I actually managed to squeeze in both episodes of The Last of Us Part 2 last night, so that was a bonus of the late European release of Andor spurring me on to watch something else in it's place.

@johnnyshoulder Very good stuff, isn't it. The whole show knows how to play with the old emotions, and I was hooked again from the very start. I really enjoyed the first episode before it even got to the more tense and dramatic parts so it turned into one long back to back episode for me

@Ravix I've not been this attached to a set of characters and story in a TV series since peak Game of Thrones. I was late getting to that, so fitted in the first few seasons in a relatively short space of time.

I'm finding most of the differences (apart from the obvious ones) to the game are going over my head, as i've not played the game since it came out

I’m debating in my mind about Andor S2 and TLoU S2 if willing to wait and be able to binge them when all the episodes are released, or whether I want to do the weekly waiting game by watching them right away. I think I going to have to jump in with everyone and watch at release, too much FOMO, and also worried about spoilers. Not that I can spoil TLoU2 because I know the game, but the show is obviously going to change some things.

@Ravix Can't discount me misreading it, even though such a thing never happens And, "annoyingly", I have an online gaming session tonight, so won't be able to watch them until tomorrow night at the earliest anyway... and tomorrow I get "Clair Obscur" too, so I will have to figure out a way to watch Andor while simultaneously playing CO

Still working through season one of ER. I dunno why this show didn't grab me out of the gate in the way something like The Pitt did, but I'm glad I have stuck with it, as I feel like I am enjoying it a little more with every episode. Maybe its a me thing, maybe its a them thing, or maybe its both, but I just feel like I vibe with these characters and little more with every episode. It is also really forward thinking, and while it may not necessarily tackle issues with the sensitivity and deftness you may want, I think there is an authentic, honest, way it navigates a lot of its most challenging topics, these characters aren't flawless paragons who exist on either end of the good or evil spectrum, and I think it gives characters more dimension and humanity that they do oftentimes bumble and stumble and trip around very heavy themes. And maybe it is all by accident, but I think it really works in creating a show that feels like it has texture. That it isn't some Hollywood product with all the edges sanded off.

@Th3solution 😁😁😁

I feel like I can definitely recommend watching the first two Last of Us episodes asap. I'm glad I made the snap decision last night. And I can especially recommend it as you're someone that really loved the games anyway. It's still every bit a character drama, and I'm disappointed in myself for not trusting i'd be in to it this time for some reason. Sure they could expand on every little thing more and more, and I believe I'm on record as saying that about S1 tbh, and I really enjoyed that. It's just i'd happily watch more of these characters in 12/15 one-hour episodes a season, and get to really dive in to every aspect of every thought they have because all of the non-infected elements that make up their far-from-normal lives are so interesting to me, but TV has to move on and have zombie fights etc, so it will never be just that aspect, but it's still damn good character drama, and the simple moments are still some of the best moments, and the tension is always there.

Thoughts? @JohnnyShoulder @FuriousMachine

Actually, I think they could even convert it into a stage play where you limit it to plain character interactions and it'd still be great. So have that idea for free, Sony. That'd be quite amazing, actually. Any of the large scale action could be portrayed by music and voice over narration.

@Ravix Rewatching TLoU S1 I was struck by just what you said, the character drama. I really enjoyed my first watch but I remember thinking that there wasn’t enough action and too few scenes with the infected. But on the second go I came to appreciate the pacing and focus on the characters better. The games were always going to have a heavier emphasis on the action and the conflict (although they do an excellent job at character development for a game) but a TV show is all about the drama and having infected jumping out every episode would quickly take the show down into the territory so many adaptations follow, and it ends up being much less satisfying. Having recently watched Fallout I can attest to that fact. The show was pretty good, but my favorite parts were the character development aspects and the plot twists. The gory kills and shock violence was okay but I think it worked better as a comedic relief, oddly enough. I have never played a Fallout game so don’t have any attachment or context for any of it. I’m not even sure if the storyline has anything to do with the actual narrative in the games, but I suspect not.

@Th3solution it's funny that it's the aspect I want even more of (hence my edit about it being something they could turn into a stage show. A full on live theatre production) I feel if they could get away with it they would risk more episodes without action, too, but there are a lot of people that do want the action elements more often too. The infected sneaking is usually good, but any big action scenes I'm usually just waiting to get back to what the characters are thinking and feeling (which can be done on the fly in video games because you are the character and they often say what they are thinking to you as the player) Although, to be fair, season 2 nails the action as well. Even if occasionally I do have to roll my eyes at it (it is a video game, after all, so it can be forgiven for having those few noticable "only in a video game" moments.)

It's clear what I like about it though, as I'm someone that really enjoyed the Bill Episode first time round. And TLoU can be equated to Westerns, I feel. The slower and more cerebral, the better. And the action, violence etc is just a byproduct, a culmination of characters making decisions, and the world being a generally sh*t place to survive in.