Topic: GayStation - Where y'all at?

Quoted for truth.

There's always somebody dragging the side down (not that I consider myself part of any "side", of course). What I find most offensive is that these misguided twerps think that they're making these ridiculous arguments on my behalf. Once had a very bizarre conversation with an "active member of the community" about that kinda thing. Was quite terrifying.

We're all human beings. That's enough of a "side" for me.

I had a phone call off my adult son who lives with his mum from a far away relationship. Anyway he said 'dad I have something important to tell you'. I was like 'okay what is it?'. He replied 'I have to see you this is important'.

I had to dwell on it all night. I was like oh no, he's involved in drugs, gambling, debt or all 3. He lives in a relatively urban area which had me really scared. Shi*. Couldn't stop worrying. All night worrying until I could drive around.

So anyway the following day I drove around and he jumped in the car. Sweat dripping down my brow - 'So okay what is it? He followed up with 'I like boys'. Errr 'what?'... 'I'm gay Dad'.

I punched the air. 'Thank f''k for that' He was like 'so did you want me to be gay?'. I actually didn't care about his sexualuty. I just cared he wasnt going to be assaulted or killed by the local drug peddlers.

@themcnoisy It’s always reassuring when parents are perfectly ok with it. Clearly, it’s preferable to being involved with the local drugs scene, that’s for certain 😂

@nessisonett The scene has gave him a new lease on life, I was trying to give him some advice on gay clubs. I used to house share with a transvestite who was an elaborately dressed welcomer to a minor gay friendly club in the city 20 years ago. Having a game of command and conquer on our ps1 setup with a tether cable then he would get into makeup and dresses etc before heading out. Good Times. It was only £10 drink as much as you want. Didn't even pay half the time. Cheers Ricky. I don't have enough gay mates nowadays back then was brilliant!

I’m kinda with @Tasuki. I don’t see a need to add extra labels to gamer. Yet here I am contributing. My thing is, you can have any opinion you want as long you’re respectful. Now this is jokes aside, I think jokes are jokes. I mean people being serious there. You have can have any opinion about whatever being right or wrong. Pro this pro against this whatever. We as people disagree about things all the time on any matter serious or not.
What matters is not attacking each or shoving things down each other’s throats. Being civil about it, and, at the end of the day, still being friends.

@themcnoisy It's moments like these that, despite my social anxiety, I wish this place was a bar or pub or something, where we were all hanging out for real.

Because then, I could buy you a beer for being such a good man.

@themcnoisy that's brilliant!

@RogerRoger
I agree with you on not being a fan of labels. Fair play to anyone who wants to label themselves. But I have a few issues with them, I often feel a quick label is used to lazily define a person and it comes across as quite dehumanising to me, and for so many, you're just stuck with assumptions and negative connotations for whatever label it happens to be.
I guess it's all part of me being frustrated with how judgemental society can be.

Games, like other artistic media, absolutely have the power to remind people that they aren't abnormal or alone, and that's important. It can simply be as small as putting a smile on someone's face, or as big as saving a life.

I've noticed within wider society that when minority groups take issue with something that is "the acceptable face" of homophobia, racism or any other form of bigotry the viewpoint of the oppressed is more often than not shot down as being unreasonable. Moreover, when someone who is not LGBT says something like "oh, I can't see what's homophobic about that", or "give me examples", it compounds and further perpetuates the issue. Truth is that western society is typically so conditioned to not seeing bigotry that it simply continues. There's no nice, polite or civil way for someone to be a bigot. And as someone who was often the punchline of quite a few jokes, something "being a joke" does not make it any nicer or any more acceptable.

Arguments such as "this has no place in gaming" also allow homophobia (and other forms of bigotry) to perpetuate. It gives a subtle nod - however unwillingly - to people who hold those unsavoury views. I don't doubt that those who have written that such topics shouldn't exist here have done so out of a genuine desire to avoid conflict and nastiness, but it silences LGBT perspectives - and that's wrong. It's in effect the same as when someone says "I have nothing against gay people, I just don't want it right in front of me" (which is clearly a homophobic thing for anyone to say).

We are all human and essentially the same, and in a perfect world it shouldn't matter - but this is sadly a world where every day all sorts of hatred goes on all around us and people are mistreated for being different. So, I think some people label themselves and draw attention to those differences not only because it is an important part of fighting for an equality that is still so elusive in certain places, but because the alternative is staying silent and conforming to society's pre-packaged acceptable view of what they should be. The view where differences are fine as long as people keep shtum and carry on.

@themcnoisy Both parts of that story are brilliant

@mookysam
Well said matey, some good points there.

@themcnoisy
Agreed with everyone here, was great to read that.

What does everyone think about the diversity of protagonists in video games this generation?
I thought last gen on the ps3 was very poor overall, seemed the majority of main characters were young heterosexual white males, most with the same bland personality. But how are we doing now?

@LieutenantFatman I reckon Sony themselves are definitely getting there. Last of Us 2 is going to have an openly gay main character in a relationship which is unheard of in video games. Horizon did a good job of having a female main character that stood on her own two feet and was a total badass. I hope Resi 3 portrays Jill well as I felt they did a great job with Claire last game. Plus, Cyberpunk seems to let you be whatever you want to be, which is totally welcome. It’s a good time just now with genuine progress being made and I hope it continues onto PS5.

@LieutenantFatman There's a long story about me being dragged clothes shopping by a bunch of girls in my college days which I'd type out, but am pretty sure everybody would be able to guess its outcome (or tell their own version). Labels can help some start their journeys, but clinging to them does more harm than good, and using them as judgemental shorthand is always a bad idea.

Having said that, I completely agree with and support @mookysam and his arguments for the positive nature of labels, and why we still need them today. We're on the right track, and we'll get there someday, but we're still riding the tail end of a hugely intolerant era in human history.

***

As for the nature of gaming protagonists, I think it's gotten better, but slowly and in more "socially acceptable" ways. These things take time, and that's okay; I'm certainly not here to flip tables and demand overnight change, not when I understand why fear exists.

Because of that, I don't think we're gonna see a gay male lead in the next couple years, not in a story-driven Triple A game. We've been given a choice (Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed, etc.) but all of those franchises have mishandled those choices at one point or another. Meanwhile, there's been more focus on getting women front and centre (and rightly so, as sexism against women impacts a much larger percentage of the world's population) and this has led to LGBT+ representation focusing on the acronym's first letter. Gay women are more "socially acceptable" to the entrenched male gaze which currently informs the marketing companies to give The Last of Us, Part 2 the go-ahead to star Ellie, but shoot down the idea of, say, giving Cal Kestis a boyfriend.

We'll get there. Maybe not on PS5, but we'll get there.

Japanese companies are usually better on the "player diversity" front. I don't keep up with Western AAA stuff anymore, but last gen felt like a million games featuring the same angry white dude shooting people, which got old for me quickly. Not as a political thing, mind you (I genuinely don't care about "being represented" in the media I consume), but just because it was dreadfully boring.

@JoeBlogs I could go into a massive nerdy Star Wars paragraph here, but I was merely picking a recent male protagonist with an undefined sexual preference when I mentioned Cal Kestis. Long story short? Yes, all manner of sexualities exist in Star Wars. The repression of one's own desires is indeed part of what caused the downfall of the Jedi Order, but it doesn't mean those desires don't exist to begin with. Same deal with Vulcans in Star Trek, who people assume are emotionless when they're actually fighting to suppress their emotions all the time instead.

And you're absolutely right, I'd love to play a game with a BAME woman of colour as the protagonist, because they're equally rare. Twice in BioWare RPGs, I've crafted Hispanic and African-American male protagonists simply because I was bored of making the same white guy in every character creator. To return to the Star Wars example, my favourite character in Jedi: Fallen Order was Cere, not Cal, and I'd have loved to play as her for a couple levels. We've had plenty of supporting BAME women (Nadine in Uncharted: The Lost Legacy also springs to mind) so why not make one playable?