Topic: GayStation - Where y'all at?

This is a very difficult topic for me to discuss without putting my foot in it. But basically, anyone can be whoever they want to me in my book. If I dislike you, I dislike you, but it’s unlikely to be as a result of your sexual persuasion or the clothes you wear or whatever. That’s not to say I am a saint, it is very difficult not to have prejudices but I try to be aware of them and better myself, which is all I can do really.

@kyleforrester87 isn't that all any of us can really do?

@kyleforrester87 Hey, everyone’s welcome in this thread regardless of persuasion, the point’s just to create a space where it’s ok to discuss games without the negativity seen elsewhere towards people due to those persuasions. That’s a bit of a mouthful but games mean a lot to different people and a lot now have LGBT+ themes, which used to be few and far between. The most important thing here isn’t to shove anything down people’s throats or scan you with my ‘woke detector™‘, education is way more important. Hell, I’m at Pride every year and still learn new things or make mistakes. For many of us, games were an outlet when we were struggling, whether that’s due to hilariously badly suppressed sexual preferences, depression, anxiety, pick your poison. It’s important to share those experiences because there’s always going to be others in the same situation right now.

Yeah, I'm always a little divided on this issue myself.

We are still part of a generation where diversity is mocked more than tolerated (especially on the faceless internet, where cowards can say whatever behind the shield of anonymity) but we are coming out of it. I certainly hope that I'll live to see the day where certain races, genders, personality types, etc. don't feel the need to carve out their own little corners, and we can all just be ourselves, together, without fear of prejudice. Right now, unfortunately, these kinds of topics and "safe spaces" still generally need to exist. We need them less and less, but they're not done being useful yet.

Same as the recent mental health topic which opened up. If a single lurker, too shy to post, sees something that speaks to them in a certain way and says "Hey, maybe I can start there!" then it's more than a worthwhile endeavour.

But I'll echo what others have said in defence of PushSquare. The reason I'm a regular contributor here is because I feel totally accepted and safe to talk about anything, overtly or in passing. I'm not found anywhere else on the internet because of its general toxicity (which, funnily enough, is targeted more at my artistic opinions than my sexuality, not that I really broadcast either) but certainly these forums, if not every front page comment section, are a relaxed and welcoming place.

Personally speaking, I don't define myself by the fact that I'm gay anyway. I've always felt like there's no character identity associated with those I choose to form relationships with; I'd still like the same games, films, music and hobbies if I had a girlfriend, boyfriend, undecided friend, inanimate object friend or no friend at all. The fact that I prefer the company of my fellow man in that specific (and personal, and private) way doesn't change who I am in the slightest, so I reference it very infrequently, or only when directly asked. I kinda hate the whole "gay" label. I'm just me.

From that perspective, I can understand why some people would say "Hey, we're all gamers, what does the other stuff matter?" Not because they're trying to repress it, blatantly or inadvertently, but because it really just shouldn't matter. I'm the biggest advocate of normalisation; if you want something to be seen as normal, then just treat it like normal. Giving everything labels is as risky for some as it is important for others.

So, to cut this ramble short, hurrah for the topic being here for those who need it, and long may it remain, but I can understand why PushSquare itself, as a place, perhaps doesn't need it.

Although maybe it does, because some people do. Or don't. So it doesn't.

See? This is a very complex issue!

I'm non-heterosexual. I play video games, including some on the Playstation 4. I don't know that the two things are related.

Seeing the resistance to this thread's existence made me want to participate, though. People should never "not talk about" a thing just because bigots might try to cause trouble. That's absolutely a reason to talk about it, and, by expanding dialogue, to passively "push back" as a community.

@Ralizah @RogerRoger I can totally understand why you would both see a disconnect between gaming and your personal sexuality. Honestly, in a perfect world it shouldn’t matter at all. We all know it really isn’t though and I hope there are lurkers out there who see a discussion and realise that they’re entitled to be part of the gaming community as much as anybody else. While personally I wouldn’t say that my sexuality is a sole defining trait, games like Persona 4 and Mass Effect were important because games were my escape from a truly lovely experience attending Catholic school and it felt like they normalised what I’m sure many people feel around the world every day.

The thing is, I just don’t care enough about the subject to probe too deeply - I’ve just no interest in going to events like gay pride. If they were handing out free video games I’d probably take a look though 😂 But i try and keep an open mind, it’s all good. That said, I naturally find it harder to relate to someone who’s transgender, so I honestly can’t say it’d be my preference given a choice for the main character in the next resident evil to be trans.

@nessisonett you went to a Chtholic school, that must have been hard, i went to a C of E school and that wasn't a walk in the park as a person who doesn't believe in ANY kind of God (it was the only school around where i lived back then) but i remember when a girl in my class was expelled for coming out as gay

now i'm what people would label as "straight" (but i hate labels) so i can never fully understand what she and others have been through (although i was pretty much bullied everyday for being short and over weight as well as the not believing thing but that's another kind of thing entirely but i know what it's like to be attacked and ridiculed for being different) but i can tell you i was disgusted at what happened but what was worse is most of the class was happy about it because she was "unnatural" (their words) and "against the laws of god"

i can tell you i was pretty happy to get out of that place

but it just goes to show i think that a persons upbringing is also part of the issue, a parent or institution can influence a persons views on the world for a life time and they pass it to the next generation and the next and so on so sadly i don't think these kind of prejudices will ever go away

@kyleforrester87 No interest in going to pride? But we had B*Witched a couple years back! It’s the height of sophistication 😂😂😂

@nessisonett I did see B*witched had a gig near me recently, I did more than casually suggest to someone that we should go 😂

@FullbringIchigo Ahh well, I have nothing against the Notorious G.O.D in any of its forms but it’s one way to put you off! Especially when you have to sit in class while the R.E. teacher talks about absolute nonsense including my personal favourite - ‘Being gay leads to incontinence’. It was a wild ride, I’ll tell you that.

@kyleforrester87 They could give out free consoles at a Pride event and I still wouldn't go anywhere near it. Such things are my idea of a waking nightmare. There is no truer phrase than "each to their own", which is why I dislike labels so much.

@nessisonett Oh, I'm with you, and support this topic being a thing for those lurkers, as I said.

I'll also admit to getting more than a little annoyed at BioWare for spectacularly mishandling romance in Mass Effect Andromeda, and for feeling a little more connected to certain games (like the Mass Effect and Dragon Age trilogies) when they give me a romance option I actively want to pursue. Gaming is awesome, but so often becomes the simple act of guiding a pre-defined character along a pre-defined story, even after so many barriers have been broken in the area of player choice. I understand the reality of the situation, and I won't instantly hate, say, the next Star Wars Jedi game if Cal Kestis shacks up with a lady friend during the course of its storyline, but in games where a cinematic narrative isn't the primary focus I personally wouldn't mind seeing greater diversity in available options.

I just won't start waving flags outside of the developer's office if such options aren't included, either. I think that's where some people get nervous nowadays, and actively won't address certain issues or include certain representation, because identity politics has become such an easily-flammable touchpaper and they're wanting to avoid controversy. This kinda thing is (apparently) so very difficult to get right, and therefore so very easy to get wrong.

@RogerRoger reminds me of the last episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia

@kyleforrester87 People keep telling me to watch that.

@nessisonett my favourite was when they was going on about who a man my "lay" with and then proceeds to give you a list of things he "can't" and i just remember thinking "but aint Eve basically Adams sister and didn't all their children also have children together so according to the bible the entire human race was created through incest"

seriously why anyone in this day and age gives those stories any credence is beyond me

Until we have a world where labels don't exist or at least matter, equal and fair representation on diversity in games etc, then threads like this are important. I don't think anyone would of been adverse to a thread for female gamers for example - as long as the people in the thread conduct themselves appropriately.

A lot of games allow you to put 'yourself' into the game, they are not all a defined character with a background history and even an 'implied' if not obvious sexuality. Nathan Drake for example is a white Heterosexual character and sexuality isn't just implied, it plays into the story too. A number of games have a love interest and some that use that as a motivation for the action. The original Donkey Kong and subsequent Mario games were about rescuing the 'Princess' and that was Mario's motivation to overcome the obstacles in his way. It doesn't have to be overtly sexual to imply sexuality or be an 'adult' game either.

Gaming has moved on a lot, but we still here that some game developers have to convince investors/publishers that going with a Female lead is 'right' for the game. Horizon: Zero Dawn devs for example had to convince Sony that a female character was the right choice as the lead and that's in a time when Strong female leads are more common and a lot more games are at least giving players the choice of gender. Sexuality doesn't always come into the story or the relationships of the characters you meet but when it does, even if its implied or very subtle, so much so that heterosexuals don't even notice, sexuality of the characters is still obvious.

The Last of Us, especially 2 it seems, will have a LGBT lead character in Ellie - something that was met with animosity from some sectors of the gaming community. Gaming, I think, has to have diversity in its lead characters, not only to feel more inclusive for all gamers but to also show that differences in colour, gender, sexuality etc doesn't make them any less a person for it. Regardless of the genders, its still love that drives the lead character to rescue the captured partner for example - going back to that man rescuing captured woman that Donkey Kong portrayed. Maybe Revenge for the death of a loved one as we have seen in some, the wife killed so man seeks revenge story - why can't it be woman seeks revenge for death of wife or man seeks revenge for death of husband?

Some women gamers have wanted strong female leads, to not see females as the victims or 'sexual' titillation for teenage boys so why shouldn't we have fair representation for those gamers who would come under the LGBT+ umbrella, have some positive role models, positive representation in games - not only for them but to show that they are 'people' too. A thread like this can help those looking for positive representation too - if we do get to see it in gaming. A thread like this can help to find support, find friends - not just other LGBT+ friends but friends that accept them for who they really are, not the persona they feel they have to put on.

I know PushSquare has a zero tolerance to prejudism but that doesn't mean that people can feel comfortable being who they are, chat about games openly and freely. Just because PushSquare will not accept prejudism, doesn't mean that some won't be prejudiced until a moderator is on hand. One day, I hope a thread like this is unnecessary because of fair representation, acceptance of differences etc but I understand the world isn't like that now. It seems to be becoming more divided than unifying.

Just for the record, I am not gay or bi-sexual - not that it matters if I was. I truly believe that there are only 2 groups of people - those who I would be happy to have as 'friends' and those I wouldn't. Everyone starts as the first group but through their actions can become part of the second - gender, sexuality, race, religion etc have NOTHING to do with which group they end up in at all - its mostly (if not all) down to respect (or lack of) for others and myself that determines whether I would be happy to associate myself with someone or not! That being said, I want to see diversity and inclusivity in gaming and acceptance in gamers too.

i remember watching a show once on the creation of Star Trek Voyager (huge Trek fan here) and i remember this bit where they said they actually had to hide the fact the Captain was going to be a woman from the higher ups because they didn't want them to do it, it wasn't until filming started that they showed them and by that time it was to late so they had to stick with it and i find it sorrowful that kind of thing still has to be done today

it would be interesting which to know which group i fall in

That's easy - you fall into the first group - the group where I would be happy to call you a friend and be happy to be associated with. You have never shown any disrespect to me or others (at least as far as I am aware) and therefore have given me no reason to be in the 2nd group.

I don't want to be associated with people that show disrespect to anyone regardless. That doesn't mean that people need to share the same opinions (like lifestyle choices, gender etc) but that they can respect each other for who they are.

I must say, I like this community on Push Square, because it's not tainted by political pressure (yet).

As with so many other gaming blogs or sites, there are agendas in place that silence peoples opinions. I believe wholeheartdly in freedom of expression, and opinion, and people have a right to disagree with whatever your opinion or view is.

For the record, being offended is a personal right, not a right that means that just because you don't agree with someone they should be silenced. Not everyone is going to share one persons viewpoint, and you might not share theirs. I would never stop someone from projecting their views, but you can be sure I'd give my opinion in response to said view, whether I agree or disagree with it.

The problems come when people start to throw around heinous phrases like "hate speech" or "racism" or the likes, when they have no idea what they're talking about. People use these phrases often as a punchline to undermine the opinions of others that do not fall in line with their own moral code. This is disgusting, and is what really annoys me most about gaming sites these days. Leave your "holier than thou" entitlement at the door, and just learn to accept that people aren't always going to agree with what you're saying.

Despite all this, I hope this thread is well received, as I have all the respect for LGBTQ people, although I wish there were less need for threads such as these, as at the end of the day your sexual orientation has nothing to really do with gaming on the whole, and therefore shouldn't be a point of contention.

I really like the idea of this thread, it gives people a platform to speak on about specific issues away from the large crowds on other general threads, and tackles important issues with diversity and the discrimination that people of different sexual orientations face nowadays unfairly.

My opinion on homosexuality? I personally love the fact that is becoming much more of a normal thing, even as a straight guy I can be happy to those who prefer men as all I want is to see people as happy as possible and if them loving someone of the same sex brings them that emotion then I am all for it.

Some of my greatest friends I have met have been those from the LGBT community and I have no prejudice towards anyone based on their sexuality and preferences.

I do dislike the fact that on platforms such as Twitter, there are minor groups of the LGBT community that have to make everything about pride, such as when we had the WW1 Poppy Memorials and there was uproar over some people saying we needed to wear rainbow poppy's or we were homophobic.

But you get people like that in every community, and of every sexuality and gender.

Again though, really happy to see this thread and hope it goes some way to allowing those in the LGBT community feel more comfortable and have their own dedicated thread to discuss all kind of things!