Topic: What happened to video games?

@nitraM I'm keen for the Lord of The Rings game they're developing!

To go back to a previous point, I'm a bit disappointed in the ageism present in some of the attitudes of gamers.

There are pros and cons to being an older developer and being a younger one. In the sea of games everywhere you look, there's going to be a huge variety of ideas and concepts, varying quality, varying design, varying stories. It's good to have a unique idea, which is hard to come by especially one that stands out or gets attention. It's also hard to come by experience.

We're entering a time where people are seeking to maximise their productivity rather than venture through a potentially taxing creative process, both for business and attitude reasons. I sympathise with all creators in that regard. This makes apprenticeship really hard to do. We can't afford to be crap at something for a while while we develop marketable skills.

It brings to mind all kinds of philosophical questions about art and how you can balance keeping a roof over your head and doing something you love, or something that brings you satisfaction.

In my mind, art isn't just visual media. Art can be present in all aspects of skill. Driving, bricklaying, communication, bicycle repair... the possibility for artful skill is present everywhere, but many people are too taxed and too dejected to apply that, for perfectly understandable reasons.

In short, it's totally fair to be disappointed in "big titles". I have that lack of enthusiasm regarding many games myself, and for other media that I used to get really excited about - movies, TV shows, books etc. Is it a sign of the times or something within ourselves that we have lost?

Structures designed to farm us for all our dopamine are maybe taking their toll.

The simple answer is our culture has changed. The changes we see within the industry are chained to the wider evolution (or devolution) of all other industries. The modern state of the games industry weaponizes nostalgia by using technology to breathe new life into games that are well loved and respected.

The Resident Evil franchise has transitioned beautifully from fixed camera angles to the over-the-shoulder perspective-though that perspective has ingrained itself conventionally into modern RE titles, except in recent entries, which have adopted the first-person perspective.

Silent Hill 2 has been highly regarded as a remake that has reminded us of the greatness of this revered classic, though some believe certain subtleties of the original were abandoned, and thus the remake might be seen as not quite as good as the original.

I've recently completed Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, and I've only ever played the demo of the original game and barely touched the 3DS, HD and Master Collection versions. Therefore, even though I see that Delta Snake Eater is pristine, I'm not going to say it makes the original game fossilized.

Another thing to note in relation to the point of the games industry reflecting our culture, modern games follow trends more often than they dare to be unique. Back on the PS2 we were treated to a plethora of games that tried something new and that were experimental. Take The Getaway for example, a gritty and brutal story-based third-person action game where you as Mark Hammond try to save your son from a band of dangerous gangsters. You'll never see games like that these days because our culture won't allow it, unless you make loads of millions of dollars and have the power of Rockstar Games.

We're not living in a culture where free expression exists anymore in art. Arguably we're being manipulated by corporations to buy into the same kinds of games over and over again. What we decide to buy depends on how well those games translate to our interests within the realm of what our culture has decided is best-suited for our videogame consumption.

We're not living in a culture where free expression exists anymore in art

Nonsense

I think on the whole games are more consistently better than they've ever been - the medium has just reached a point of maturity and slowing evolution. If you're in your late 30s or older you grew up during a period of such rapid evolution of an entertainment medium, the likes of which has never been seen in all of human history.

We've reach a point where controllers have just about all the inputs a person can reasonably manage, and we have enough computational power that there are no longer any technical limits on gameplay design - just graphical fidelity with increasingly diminishing returns. Motion controls and VR didn't really catch on, so it's kind of natural that we're not going to see the same frequency of innovation in games as we had from the 1980 to 2010.

And frankly a lot of "all time classic" games are not all that great if you consider them in unbiased relation current games - they were just groundbreaking for their time. If you experienced them when they were new, it's extremely hard to take off the nostalgia goggles and separate them from that feeling of new-ness at the time. However, if you qualify that a game was amazing "in it's day", is it truly an all time classic?

I mean I still consider Star Wars (A New Hope) the best sci fi/fantasy action adventure movie I've ever seen and it will be 50 years old next year. Despite obvious technological advancements in film, I don't need to the make the "in it's day" excuse. I'd rather rewatch that movie right now more than almost any sci fi movie that's come out in the last 30 years.

How many truly memorable and impactful movies, shows, or books come out in a year or even over the span a decade? And not like "I enjoyed that" sort of things, something that you will truly remember for all time?

Video games have simply reached a point of maturity like other entertainment mediums. You're not going to get absolute bangers every single year. You and many of us are just spoiled to have lived through a period of crazy fast innovation and improvement and will need to rebalance our expectations a bit (if we keep gaming).

@JDINCINERATOR I do play a lot of Playstation 2 games and it might be my favorite generation, I'm sure I was talking about The Getaway this week with someone. There were a lot new ideas there but so much of that was also down to the jump in hardware and not just story telling. When I do rotate between generations, Playstation 5 one day, Playstation 2 or 1 the next, I don't feel like there's a hold on freedom of expression. If anything I think Playstation 5 pushes freedom of expression more than any other generation and that's because issues and agendas do make their way into some of these newer games, sometimes uncomfortably so. Which is why I like retro, it sticks to the script, it doesn't have to include current events or something I don't understand. If there was no freedom of expression I wouldn't feel that way, there would be no reference point. Instead it makes me ask further questions.

I see no lack of art or expression there, and I don't play nearly enough Triple-A games to feel like any Corporation plays any role in the games or choices I make. Playstation 5 makes it easier for first time Developers to release their games, which might be why I focus so heavily on Indies, those I see as art and absolute freedom of expression. I'm very grateful for Indies, they reminded me that gaming does have a big heart and I really like supporting those studios. By the same token I can look at a game like Saros or Clara Obscura and say that they are absolutely beautiful, which is why I collect so many art-books, gaming is such an incredibly open platform for artists, it gives them the tools to realize their dreams, in living colour. I think if you take a handful of bigger budget well known games then perhaps yes it might feel like Corporations play such a major role in gaming, but they have to, games cost a lot more to make than they did on those older machines, that's before you include marketing and distribution, studios need investors and an influx of resources. That's how the entertainment industry as a whole operates, gaming is too lucrative for Corporations not to get involved.

That said there are so many studios, so much raw talent, new ideas, and so many do get overlooked because folks sometimes get stuck in a loop of FOMO, or those title get buried on storefronts. I can't comment on nostalgia, I'm approaching the hobby as a first timer, I don't have many expectations going in, the same for retro, I could see how a flurry of remasters and remakes might seem predatory if this is your meaning? but making a purchase is optional, and to my mind nostalgia means a person already has fond memories of moments they spent in the original title, if I want to relive a game I'd replay it by sourcing an original machine and do it that way, many people on here do. Retro is a popular topic.

If modern gaming/big studios are getting to you? Try Vampyre Survivors or any other popular Indie, you'll get so enveloped by their brilliance that you'll care less about the rest of the industry and just game for the sake of it, at least that's been my experience and I did care, but once it started getting to me I gravitated back towards those smaller, brighter and lighter titles and couldn't be happier for it.

@kyleforrester87 Is it? Well we can create whatever we like for ourselves, but when it comes to what sells that has to go through greenlights from publishers, agents and whatnot.

@JDINCINERATOR it’s melodramatic, there are arguably more weird, experimental games than there have ever been. I’d say you have to look in the right places but it’s really not even that hard to find. It’s not even just the smaller stuff to be fair, look at Baldurs Gate 3.

@GirlVersusGame The PS5 does allow for plenty of expression true, but I do still believe we aren't getting as much audacity as we used to. Look at the Saints Row reboot from 2022 as a prime example. Why did that Saints Row reboot decide to eschew its hardcore gangster personality for something far less appealing? I reckon it's because Saints Row was trying to appeal to the modern world we live in so it can appeal to more people and sell more copies. We wanted Saints Row as it was in the mid-late 00s and early 2010s, but the powers that be didn't let Saints Row breathe like it should have. Santa Ileso was nice and the variety within that setting was refreshing compared to the concrete jungles of Stillwater and Steelport.

As for corporations, they indeed do exist and need to exist to expand the power of videogames, but when you compare this generation to say the early 2010s, I think we're not privy to the true diversity and creative ideas that we were used to. Back then studios did get shut down if their unique games weren't successful. I think the racing game genre saw a great boost in unique ideas in the early 2010s when you look at Split/Second: Velocity and BLUR, but both Blackrock Studios and Bizarre Creations closed their doors, and I don't think there is much experimentation in the racing game genre. Sometimes I think new ideas don't sell and aren't of interest to the many because familiarity is what is preferred and what sells.

Nostalgia is great but I don't want to keep seeing games embrace the past constantly. My stance especially this generation, is that there are too many remakes and remasters that (arguably) they're defining this generation a bit too heavily. Yeah, there are a bunch of fantastic first-party and third-party original games pulling the waggon this generation, but remakes are trickling in more and more. They are remakes/remasters of the most-popular and games we've already purchased before. I don't think we needed Ubisoft to "Resync" Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, the original was great on its own and didn't need tampering with. Rayman Legends Untold seems like it'll be another example, a remake we don't need because Rayman Legends was already superb. Mind you, Ubisoft's new games are divisive, so perhaps remaking classics is what keeps the fanbase happy.

I play a lot of unique indies. Vampire Survivors is fantastic and it's morish, same with Ball X Pit and Deep Rock Galactic Survivor. My favourite indies are Huntdown, a cyberpunk retro side-scrolling shooter from 2020 that's probably the biggest hidden gem game I know, and games media largely ignored it. Then there's Neon White, which is a fast and thrilling time attack game that'll always make you feel like a badass.

Don't get me wrong, I am pleased with what the industry churns out, especially when it delivers genuine surprises (like Stuntman Hollywood's announcement), I just think our culture has informed videogames in a way that is less expressive than it was 20+ years ago.

@kyleforrester87 I guess that depends on what qualifies as weird and experimental. Games like Untitled Goose Game, Big Walk and Thank Goodness You're Here are great when it comes to humour. Yet I still think we haven't had a truly gritty and raw game that pulls you in like The Getaway since The Getaway came out in 2002. Watch Dogs: Legion is definitely not in that ballpark. As for Baldur's Gate 3, I think it's a success story which has paved the way for indie studio success, and it is lovely to see Triple A step aside a bit.

@JDINCINERATOR I do think the long development cycles and higher investment stakes of current game development has blunted some of the studios to be more risk averse to what they may have been before. But at the same time the sheer volume of developers and game releases, including growth markets, has made for an equal portion of experimentation and diversity of free expression just by sheer volume. Every month there’s games released that seem to be novel, but they exist alongside many remakes and sequels also.

So in my experience I am never far away from having an interesting and creative game to pull from my backlog, but I also have a lot of remakes and sequels to get to also. There’s just a lot of everything! 😅

@JDINCINERATOR not sure what to say about that really. The Getaway was alright but I have never considered it a benchmark game. Plague Tale? Got lots of rats in that game. Rats are pretty gritty.

And I could list 10 indie games that are weird and experimental without relying on humour.

@GirlVersusGame I understand what Volition et al were doing, they wanted to make Saints Row more accessible given the world we live. However, fans of the franchise considered it a betrayal of the Saints Row identity, and thus many hated it. I think the truth is the reboot is enjoyable if you strip away your expectations tied to the series.

New ideas seem to only be left to the indie studios, whereas the triple A arena are too busy perpetuating the money-making ideas. After the success of games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Clair Obscur, I wouldn't be surprised if triple A studios create their own versions of these games. Wherever money can be made the triple A studios will jump all over it, and then they'll cut studios loose afterwards because that's what they do. No money is ever enough for them, they're ultra greedy and although the creators do love what they create, I do feel as though making money is more important than making great games in the triple A sphere. Maybe it's no different to how the Hollywood system handles films, the big ones perpetuate the ideas that sell, then the smaller studios and indie film makers give us uniqueness. I am seeing that Hollywood is seeping into games too much, but that's not a bad thing considering we've witnessed some excellent original videogames based off Hollywood film franchises. From Robocop to Indiana Jones to 007, there is definitely a good amount of success going around when Hollywood invades videogames-and they're not just licensed videogames based on specific films anymore.

The term "woke" invades our culture way too much that the word has lost all proper meaning. Whenever I hear the word I think of mindless hate and an unwillingness to accept underrepresented demographics. Then again, I'll admit some of these "woke" games are a bit too soft and nerdy for my tastes. Take Mixtape, it's a great game and I'm glad it's garnered critical success, but it can be way too obsessed with the 80s and with itself.

Back to Saints Row reboot, I think it's a 6/10. I didn't like the trailer for it and I thought they ruined Saints Row, but there is fun in there, and it does improve on the franchise in a few ways despite sacrificing its own identity. I agree, Saints Row 2 was the absolute best because it was liberating. Saints Row 2 wasn't trying to be GTA as much as the first game, The Third was a lot of fun but felt stripped back, and IV was kinda like 2 in the bonkers department, but still didn't have the brass SR2 had.

Driver: San Francisco was off-the-wall and that's why I loved it, well that and that it felt like an old-school car chase movie/tv show but it's a game. San Francisco showed how you can create an insane premise and thread it deliciously into the gameplay experience. Again, the kind of whimsy San Francisco represents is rarely seen in modern games.

I don't sense any aggression in your response at all, and it's lovely to discuss videogames with a like-minded community.