Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

Well, I've just posted my PS5 back to Sony . Nothing wrong with it per se, but £480 for a PS4 Pro Plus with a catastrophic UI was a bit too much to bear.

I can't believe someone at Sony didn't go and boot up a PS4 and say "just add more stuff to this, it works really well". Friends list hidden away, having to press PS button, then options on the game icon to close the application, no folders and themes - GAH!
And while some of the updates were nice enough, games like F1 2021 runs no better on the 5 than the Pro, apart from the DualSense making some weird 'ponk'ing noises that the PS4 version doesn't suffer with.

PS4 Pro with 1TB internal Crucial MX500 SSD is still working fine so I'm definitely going to wait to see what the redesigned version looks like this year before I dip my toe back in.

@LN78 Thanks for trying though. Might have to get it repaired or just buy a new one when I can afford it!

@MightyDemon82 have you tried connecting using an ethernet cable rather than WiFi, at least to see if you can get online that way?

@NEStalgia Ok, I didn't know that for sure since you only ever mentioned your Xbox One X. Nice that you got lucky enough to still be able to get your Series X replaced.

Discipline is not always my strongest suit, but I will do my best... I hope. If I do stick to this format, then the timed exclusivity should be ok as Xbox tends to have really short timed windows that make me question the purpose, unlike the year or two Sony usually does.

I guess as long as it keeps working and is only an annoyance, then you're ok, but that's really weird that it does it even though you've never even used the drive. I get not wanting to disconnect your external drive, but you could always do it once just to test things out and then just plug in back in afterwards. Obviously with having so many games on it, you'd still have to use it, but at least you'd know if that was the cause and possibly replace it at some point.

@KilloWertz Yeah I actually had a weird almost revelation that probably isn't, with the beeping. Yesterday it beeped once. But I happened to notice that when I shake the audio rack next to it, I would get a lot of beeping. Then when I stop it stopped. I did it a bunch of times, shake the rack, it beeps a number of times. Stop shaking it, the beeping stops. But then after several times of that pattern it wasn't beeping with or without shaking it, so that may have been just a really weird coincidence. And the rack it's also not touching the PS5 in any way, which is on the floor located in front of the rack, and it makes no sense that the two should be related at all. I thought maybe it's not the PS5 that's beeping at all but something else....but, nothing else makes the same beeps PS's do, and it doesn't happen when the PS5 is running. This thing will drive me completely batty eventually!

FWIW, I'd forgotten, but I think the PS4 Pro did the beeping even when it WAS running, so this is actually a little different than that. It's the weirdest thing. I swear I find there's some device I didn't even remember I had buried somewhere behind the audio rack that coincidentally has the same beeps a PS has and for 5 years I've been thinking the PSs beep lol. I'll probably try the drive disconnection at some point, as a last resort but it has to be when it's beeping consistently enough to check cause and effect....and it seems like it wants to be elusive.

I think XB exclusivity and PS have different purposes. For XB I think they're mostly trying to use the temporary exclusivity for GP launching games to give GP subscriptions a big lure and inject new subscribers. It only needs to be short term to do that. For PS's exclusivity. Honestly their angle is kinda slimy and goes with the kind of sleazy business tactics Jimbo and crew use that makes me really dislike them. They're using their total market dominance to be able to pay relatively low prices to buy out potential sales on competitors products for what they see as key titles so that they can pretty much lock down entire genres for a pittance. Like FF, by paying the relatively small fee to buy out whatever lost sales not being on XB will miss, they can pretty much lock down the entire JRPG market as their own by taking a tentpole nobody in the market for the genre would want to miss. If you're Square-Enix, you know you're going to move less units on XB than on PS, so there's not a huge loss skipping XB, and skipping the development costs on that port if PS is willing to pay the lost sales and then some, which PS can only do because they're already most of the market so buying the competitor's volume is peanuts, which then ensures that the competitor's potential volume remains peanuts. It comes back to the whole MS-ABK thing. On one hand I hate all the consolidation around. And I hate "big tech" as much as anyone. On the other hand, Sony really needs a kick in the teeth because they play as dirty as they come and they do it through abusing their near-monopoly on the console market, such that everything they've accused MS would gain the ability to do in all their legal dealing is hypocritically things they already do themselves, and their whole complaint is that they fear losing their pseudo-monopoly and not being able to do it anymore. PS runs as dirty as Nintendo was in the 80s.....and Nintendo needed Sony to use their wallet to bribe up the industry to kick them into place. Sony needs the moneybags to kick them now....but then I'd worry that there's no one left to kick MS when it's their turn (again).....

@MatthewJP @LN78. The gaming god's must be smiling on me as it's back to it's old self, as if nothing was wrong 😃. I think it was related to that terms of agreement, because I had to sign in after successfully connecting to the WiFi and ok another thing about passwords at checkout. Very strange, but chuffed it's not dead!

@NEStalgia The room you use for gaming must be haunted or something. Maybe it already has driven you completely batty and you just don't realize it yet.

Yeah, it is extremely weird that it randomly keeps thinking you are ejecting a disc when you have never even used the drive before.

Both companies use tactics that are slimy and such. Microsoft is trying to buy huge studios to fix their exclusives problem because they severely mismanaged things for many years and were left with little in the way of exclusives. Sure, the timed exclusives are underhanded, but so is buying ZeniMax and Activision/Blizzard. It is the way of the industry now though, so we just have to live with it. If I want to play a new Bethesda game, and obviously I want to, I have to own a Series X. Sony is too complacent though, especially given some of the things they've done this generation. If there was something wrong with the UI on the PS4, I have confidence they would fix it in due time most of the time. Now on the PS5, there's stuff wrong with it that has been there since launch. The lack of communication, with almost everything being a secret is also annoying.

@KilloWertz whispers I see dead consoles.... No beeps today, though I didn't turn it on today...

I actually put the order in for the vr2. Hopefully I don't end up regretting that, but I did. Also ordered Moss 1 and 2 while it's on sale digitally.... And sanity has taken leave of me and I actually ordered the Edge controller too...... A moment of expensive weakness because I love my xb elite 2, it also contributed to be making that my main 3rd party machine, and though edge is more expensive and looks like less of an upgrade, I used to live my wired razer raiju for PS4. Lack of metal parts is disappointing though... I'm in the middle of finishing up hzd still and decided to put that on hold for the new controller next week. I dare anyone to call me a ps hater. I've bought my right to complain! 😂

I think I draw the line of sleaze where what Microsoft does is heavy handed but it's at least out in the light of day and everyone is free to hate or love them for it. What Sony does is cloak and dagger cover of night secret handshake sort of stuff most customers that don't hang out places like this never are even aware of. Can't do anything about brute force but being manipulated doesn't sit right...

At some point around the time Ryan and Ken Yoshida (not to be confused with Shu) took over, PlayStation ping pongs back and forth between thinking they're Sony Pictures and thinking they're Nintendo. They don't seem the remember they're PlayStation at all. as I pay 200 for a pro controller with no metal and a half set of paddles... 😕

@NEStalgia I see what you did there.

The VR2 should be a great VR headset. It's just a matter of them supporting it with games better than they did the first one. The tech itself is fantastic. It's obviously your business, but there's no way I'd pay for the Edge controller given that it seems like a mild upgrade with a slightly worse battery life. If it had a much better battery in it, kind of like what Microsoft gives you with the Elite controller, then I would have considered it. The price would have likely driven me off, but I would have at least thought about it. I hope it ends up being worthwhile for you though.

I would rather have to wait a year or so for a game than not be able to play it on my console of choice simply because one company ran things incompetently and had to do this in order to have exclusives. Them buying Obsidian and Ninja Theory were both brilliant moves, but then they went too far imo. Not looking to argue about it, so we'll just agree to disagree there as obviously neither company is good regardless. It's not like a believe PlayStation is a good company either. They are almost like they were in the first half of the PS3's lifespan, but they have the luxury of still being really successful regardless this time around. I do miss the Sony of the second half of the PS3 generation, and despite my reservations, I do hope Microsoft finally starts delivery this year regardless of how they got the exclusives.

@KilloWertz Yeah, I went back and forth on the Edge. The thing is I have the rubber coming off one of my DS5 sticks as-is, so I still need to spend at least $70 and put it off to fix that. And with the "joycon drift" hitting a lot of DS5's hard (so far not mine), I figure I'll probably end up not really paying that much more in the end to get an "upgrade" but I agree with you. It seems like while Elite goes for total premium experience, Edge is just a DS 5 with an improved plastic mold and some baubles added (for more money.) and I'm definitely not thrilled about the battery. I kinda can't believe Sony messed up on a $200 controller that badly. They've been toying with the premium controller thing since Layden's time, and that's what we got. I almost got the Scuf Layden was peddling at that last infamous E3 but decided I wasn't using the PS4 enough to justify it. PS5 is still exclusives only but it's getting more time than my PS4 was at the end (VR excluded.) Still better than a Scuf in some ways.

I saw a youtube video with an interview of the designer of the Edge saying how they created it after talking to eSports players who liked the DS5 and weren't happy with their other brand pro controller (Scuf or Razer I assume), and I just had to laugh......a modded DS5 was their answer a decade late and at the same price point

I don't expect it'll supplant Elite v2 as my favorite controller by a long shot, though ironically I may have it longer, since Elite v2 has a famously high stick drift rate as well (again so far not mine) while this has the replaceable sticks, so it may be the worse controller that lives long enough to justify the price better in some ways. Though it's $50 more.... and the battery will kill it before the sticks do. Terrible design. But I don't dislike the stock DS5 (first Sony controller ever I don't absolutely hate and actually kind of like) so a few upgrades can't hurt. $200 though for what it is is just....ugh.

I'm basically banking on needing a $70 DS5 to fix the rubber and assuming I'd need at least one more due to drift or more rubber failure, so at $140 vs $200 the upgrades seem more justifiable (-20 for replacement stick). It's what I tell myself anyway

I wouldn't mind 1 year timed exclusives if it really was 1 year timed exclusives. That wouldn't be shady, just a stated business deal. But more we keep seeing this nebulous thing that they talk about "1 year" but quietly they mean "we can renew indefinitely if we chose to and we'll never tell anyone the situation." It's the secrecy and lack of transparency that's troubling. Do the year. That's fair. Then it's done. No more secret extensions that nobody knows about. No more paid special content to make games worth less on competing platforms. Especially whenever Square is involved. Whatever their cozy setup with Square is, I'm picturing Goro Majima as their go between on the deals. Everything is always sketchy. That and the buying of exclusive content in games to make them "best on PS games." Why they do it works, you go look at reddit and you see "should I buy xb or PS" and so many people advising that a lot of big games have additional content on PS so it's definitely better. That kind of dirty competition, bribing sweetened pots, only possible BECAUSE they're a near monopoly for now, just doesn't sit well.

I don't trust any of these companies as far as I can throw them, and I agree ABK in particular is a bridge too far (though I have mixed feelings because ABK has been dead as far as anything but CoD is concerned for a decade and has been circling the drain, and only about 5 companies are big enough to buy them anyway...and most of what they have left that's good is PC-exclusive, so it actually is a natural fit...) I'm fairly torn on a lot involved there. TBH I think the CONCEPT of the buyout is worse than the reality of a well meshing company that was dying despite big profits mostly from mobile. Yet I also can't stand all the mergers, and I'll scream bloody murder if Sony revenge buys Square (though I really don't think they will.)

But the one thing I've been hoping no matter what way that deal goes down is that it forces Sony's own dirty dealings into the light of day and draws scrutiny because their content lockdowns have been just on the wrong side of legit for a long time. They got ugly mid-PS4 when they got dominant, and most of their spending hasn't been on making customer's experience better, it's been on making competitor's customers experience worse. So ugly. Classic Sony though. The fact that their top complaint on CoD, in Jim's own slightly paraphrased words are "This would enable them to do with CoD exactly what we've been doing with CoD for 10 years and that's not faaaaaairrrr!" (really, the paraphrasing is minor there because he nearly really did say that verbatim... ) is everything wrong with them right now.

They were OBNOXIOUS during the early PS3, but I have to say, I honestly thought they were more honest then. That was Kutaragi, and the thing was an outrageously priced pariah, but it really was loaded to the gills with tech. It was hubris, but it was honest hubris he believed in. Jim's PS is just nickel and diming their own customers and using that boon to kneecap competitors then boasting of success while pretending they're a bit player.

Despite big companies being big companies and therefore naturally evil, it amazes me how much the PEOPLE at the time really determine who the company is. First half PS4 PS had Kaz, Shu, Shaun, Jack.....those guys actually cared about the brand and the product and it showed. You felt like a valued customer with them. Iwata's Nintendo was like Willy Wonka's candy factory. Sure they gouged but you felt like the folks at the top just wanted you to have a good time and put everything into it. Matrick's XB....I mean he didn't even pretend he liked us, he openly told us he hated us and thought we were stupid with only slightly softened words. And it showed.

Now today, XB's Phil is kind of the new Iwata. The company sucks, but you can tell he just cares about the experience, and I don't think they'll shaft customers while it's in his hands. What happens after him and a standard suit goes into the chair though worries me. Nintendo's Furukawa.....it makes Nintendo feel like walking into an old school bank. You're not a person, you're a client, and as long as you make your deposit, bow, and walk out, there will be no trouble, though you will see nothing but scowls on the teller's faces. And Jim/Ken Yoshida's PlayStation feels like a mob front. The roulette table is top notch and the bar is quality, you'll have a fun visit, but it'll cost you, and you definitely do not want to see the "business" facilities in the basement that make it run....

@Kidfried People really imprint on recognizable, likable figures. It's funny: in terms of sales, popularity, and density of acclaimed releases, Nintendo and Sony are, if not at their peaks, at least not far off, despite being run by the world's most generic looking Japanese dude and an Englishman who looks like a bit of a goofy goober, respectively. They actively subtract the amount of total charisma in any social space they enter. Yet Microsoft has been flailing for years under Uncle Phil, whose charming demeanor seems to be the one thing propping up the Xbox's public image as a brand at this point.

Of course, it's the same with anything. Yuji Naka's name was the only reason anyone cared about Balan Wonderworld when it was announced. How many movies have used the name of a famous celebrity or musician as a gimmick to get eyes on a new TV show or movie? Celebrity is a powerful force.

Quite impressive how phoned-in the Persona 3 ‘remaster’ is. They outsourced it to a dev which basically ran it through Waifu2x and called it a day.

@nessisonett At least they're not charging $50 for it like the SMT Nocturne remaster.

@NEStalgia Ok, after reading half of it, taking a nap, and then reading the rest of it.... I am ready to respond.

It does make some sense when factoring in you having to buy a replacement controller anyways. Hopefully you don't experience stick drift with it if you decide to go through with it. As for the DualSense itself, it probably doesn't hurt that they made the design of the controller similar to the Xbox as far as form factor goes, which I thought was a plus. Unlike some people, I don't find it too big at all. Honestly I thought their previous controllers were all small.

True, and a perfect example is Final Fantasy VII Remake. It was only supposed to be exclusive for a year, but then that time ended and Square Enix handed it over to the PC. Their exclusivity window for both formats is long expired, but for some reason it will never appear on an Xbox console (0% chance now since it's now been almost 3 years since it released on the PS4.

For me, Nintendo's greed has been a turn-off after getting the Switch earlier last year. It's absurd that you still have to pay full price the vast majority of the time on titles that released digitally all the way back at launch in 2017. That's by far my biggest problem with Nintendo after buying that Switch.

@KilloWertz LOL! With controllers, I'm amazed that these companies don't make small and large or something. It seems like you're either in the camp that thinks the XB controllers are egronomic perfection, and DS5 being more like XB is the biggest improvement they could make to their cramped old controllers, and the other camp thinks DS3 was the best controller ever made and anything you can't palm is too huge. For me? Yeah, the XB controllers feel just right, and every prior PS controller was small, cramped, and cheap, so DS5...I still like XB's ergonomics more, but it's the next best thing. DS4 I "hated less" than DS3. DS3 is the single worst video game controller I've ever held. I think I'd put the no-name generic pads above it. PS3 is possibly my favorite PS but that controller.....it was soooo bad....

My theory for FF7R is that it became "generational exclusive" meaning it may appear on Series Z but not X or something. Though that's still sketchy because if Sony had actual exclusivity they would be marketing that exclusivity, so I don't know how much of that is Square alone being extortionate and trying to shake down MS for GP money or how much is some really sleazy (as in legally questionable) stuff between them and Sony that can't be public. But yeah, that's the kind of stuff that has to go and makes me really uneasy about the companies. If you bought it you bought it, good for you, but if there's a handshake in a smoke filled room to wash each other's backs by knifing the competition.....that's as dirty as it gets. And it's the kind of stuff that exists not to benefit their own customers but only to hurt their competitor's customers. It's like mob dealings.

Speaking of the mob. Nintendo! Nintendo's greed's been turning me off since the 80's but Stockholm syndrome runs deep and here I still am... A friend of mine back in the 00's had done a cost chart comparing the Wii and all the required attachments accessories and a game to get a complete system, vs the "six hundred ninety nine US dollars" nightmare PS3, and the numbers actually came out that TCO on PS3 Phat was cheaper than Wii! That's Nintendo in a nutshell. Of course Hiroshi "Totally Not A Yakuza, Honest!" Yamauchi was still running the show from behind the shadows back then, so they've slightly softened in their old age. Only slightly. Mario gets a $5 sale now and then....

@NEStalgia I am using my PS3 again at the moment to finally finish a game I had played and stopped almost 13 years ago, and I agree on the controller. The system is definitely the most influential PlayStation for me, completely changing gaming for me once I got it mid-gen, but the controller is obviously small and cheap. It's battery life is decent at least, and it's the last PS controller to not have the stupid touchpad, so it's not all bad I guess. Aside from the stupid touchpad, I obviously think the DualSense is their best controller ever.

I doubt we'll ever really know what happened with FF7R. I know the Yuffie DLC for the PS5 version renewed the deal until the game went to PC, but anything that's ever been noted is long over with. I've gotten the impression that it's Square Enix just not bothering at this point, but who really knows. Maybe they're all part of the Japanese mob.

For all the crap that Sony rightfully gets for being greedy, Nintendo comes off as the worst. I got a Switch a little under a year ago and my excitement to jump into an ecosystem I had rarely experienced in my life was quickly extinguished when I realized how expensive most of their games are regardless of how old they are. It's an absolute joke that even games that were launch titles like Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild are still $60 on their eShop and rarely ever go on sale (even then it's lazy sales). Physical copies can be had for cheaper, but even they should be $30-$40 at this point before any sales. Me coming in 5 years after most everybody else and having to pay the same prices is an absolute joke.

@KilloWertz lol the touch pad... I admit theres one and only one place that is actually indispensable:. FFXIV. That terrible UI is so bad, and so dependent on a mouse, the touch pad is actually useful. If not essential. But the "map button" is otherwise the most useless thing. I can't believe they kept it for PS5!

I'm hoping the edge is their best controller ever once they bill me

Square with the mob? Nah, Sega, Konami absolutely. Nintendo was born of the mob. Square? The mob doesn't deal with bumbling like that lol. Yeah I really can't tell if Sony or square is the offensive party. I figure Sony doesn't have true exclusivity if they're not advertising it otherwise there's no point. But otoh why would square bring crisis core to xb yet not 7? It's not like they don't think that franchise has sales potential there, so their hands must be tied. All so weird.

Oh no doubt the biggest complaint I have about Sony is that they're becoming more Nintendo-like. Getting into the Nintendo ecosystem definitely has advantages in that there's just so many games, as far as Japanese games anyway, that you can't get elsewhere. But... Yeah the "switch tax" isn't myth. 1st party games are price fixed to "not dilute brand value". Heck WiiU games are still full price on a 6 year dead console that failed on launch. Not even Sony could get away charging $60 for the ORIGINAL PS3 tlou version. But Nintendo does it! They've always been that way. I love the handled nature of switch but it's definitely an exclusives machine. But the exclusives sure are expensive. And you know they'll do $70 for switch 2. And that's means permanently $70...

I do love my switch in general, but, I definitely have cut down what I buy on it and buy more for ps/xb on sales end got a phone/controller set up for streaming locally from the power consoles rather than use switch for a lot of purchases. But then falcom had to go and make the switch version of trails better than the ps version.......

@NEStalgia They kept it because it's actually needed on certain PS4 games, so with the backwards compatibility it pretty much had to be there. They could have shrunk it or moved the buttons slightly away from it so you wouldn't touch the edge of it from time to time by accident. The only other option would have been to remove it and then allow people to use the DS4 on the PS5.

Yeah, it's hard to believe Sony doesn't have something to do with it, but who knows. Given that Crisis Core is on all systems, obviously Sony didn't bother paying for that.

I have less of an issue of PS5 games being $70 because I know they will drop in price. If you are all digital, the price will still be $70 from time to time, but eventually games are part of almost every sale, so no big deal there. I'm physical more often than not when I am able, so eventually games drop in price permanently. You don't get it on the one time an exclusive is on a digital sale on the Switch and you're screwed. Some games physically seem to have been on sale for a long time via Best Buy like Breath of the Wild and such, but even so there are so many exclusives that are $55-$60 still even physically. If I grew up a part of the ecosystem, it'd be different, but there's no way I'm supporting that level of greed given that I'm completely new to the ecosystem. It's not like I don't have more than enough to play regardless even by skipping most Switch games.

@KilloWertz I think the touch pad would be more useful if it had a screen. I know that's shades of WiiU, though really shades of Dreamcast... But thatwould be a useful controller innovation. I'm still amazed that Sega had a more advanced controller in the '00s then anyone has in 2023 for 4x the price. I don't think it would have been a problem for bc if it used ds4 controllers or allowed mapping of touch like phone apps do, but yeah I guess they're stuck with it going forward.

The price thing is really insane. The only reason to be ok with current pricing is if you know you won't be spending it. You'd think setting a price the whole market will pay makes more sense than day 1 gouging then running sales to the real price but.... Yeah on the Nintendo side.... Even if there's a digital sale it's $5 off or something. They did that voucher program with pre paying $100 for 2 games that was ok. But in the US they ended that after a few months, while they keept it up in other territories. It's just a giant middle finger from them always. It's definitely turned me off from them. I used to buy everything back on 3ds where everything was 40-50, but permanent 60 on switch is offensive except specific games. It's extortion, though, Nintendo doesn't have that cod/fifa money rolling in for nothing like Sony/Ms do so I suppose they do need higher margins. And physical, even used, holds value because sellers know street price isn't really going to change.

But yeah they've always been like that. Worse really. It was Sony rolling in with big money that finally put them in their place, but they're returning to their old ways and now Sony wants in on that racket. I'm hoping MS can put both in their place but then I worry for 15 years from now who will be able to put MS back in their place.

It wasn't long ago that Pokemon games were always cheaper than normal prices. With switch they just realized everything sells like crazy no matter the price and doubled down on it. Kart 8 is a, what, 2014 game? And it's still in the top no 10 charts like gtav but at $60....

@Kidfried I just hate that with the touchpad I can never quite guarantee it’ll work.

With GoW: Ragnarok you open the map by pressing the left side of the map and at least half the time the first attempt at pressing it results in the main menu opening up instead.