Topic: Metal Gear Series Discussion

@BangEm Yeah, the rumours about a full-blown MGS3 remake, followed by further individual remakes if its successful enough, do make a bit more sense from Konami's perspective. It's nice to dream, though! And stranger things have happened, so you never know!

Yeah at this point I think we should be glad if we get one remake to begin with.

Watching a digital foundry video about MGS 4 emulation and I just found out that if you shake the DS3 it resets your camo! How on earth has this passed me by for 15 years?

@AgentCooper Especially as you created the series and made the game!

@AgentCooper The coolest part about that is that you can even do it in cut-scenes. So if Snake has green camo and you enter a cut-scene, mid-conversation if you shake the pad it transitions back to grey.

I'm excited for the MGS Collection. Will be nice to play the original three games and see what all the fuss is about.

@KAIRU Did you play 4 or 5? Or will this be your first experience with the series?

@Th3solution I played Ground Zeroes on PS4 for a few hours but that’s really about it.

@johncalmc I love this about Kojima games. It always blew me away destroying food stores in Snake Eater and how it affected the soldiers in that area. I wonder if someone has done a YouTube video of all the little details?

@KAIRU Phantom Pain is a absolute gameplay joy and is an essential last gen title. I’m always excited for someone to start this journey, please do share your thoughts when the collection arrives 👍

@AgentCooper I think I have Phantom Pain as I claimed it through PS+ a while ago.

I’ll definitely post my thoughts when I play the collection.

I have gotta say, the inclusion of MG NES, Snakes Revenge and the digital graphic novels in the Master Collection Vol 1 makes me really happy.

On the one hand, it shows a great amount of love and respect for the whole series, not just the Kojima games. It also bodes well for any potential Volume 2 containing more obscure picks like MGS for game boy colour, Portable Ops, Twin Snakes, Ac!d 1&2, Rising, Survive etc

I'd honestly be happy if a volume 2 contained one or two of the "big" games (maybe 4 and PW?) along with a portion of this selection and for there to be a volume 3 that chronicles the MGS V saga along with the rest of this selection

@ralphdibny The fact that MGSV is still readily available and playable on current-gen hardware gives me hope that Vol.2 will be MGS4, Peace Walker and then yeah, some of the oft-overlooked stuff, like Rising or the Ac!d games. There's no need to re-release MGSV again (or indeed, re-re-release it, given that it already got re-released once already) but then hey, this is Konami we're talking about.

The original two Metal Gear games just happen to be included in the version of MGS3 they're porting over but, considering that Digital Graphic Novel was a PSP exclusive, somebody involved in all of this must be making some degree of effort, and that's worth applauding!

@RogerRoger well if the rumoured games for vol 2 are to be believed then my newfound dream a of a long series of exhaustive metal gear collections may be out the window!

I guess the addition of the until now unrereleased NES games (in addition to the MSX games from subsistence) and also the graphic novels got my hopes up a bit too high for future collections!

The graphic novel was on MGS legacy collection for PS3 but I believe on a standard blu ray with its sequel so it wasn't interactive

im not a massive metal gear solid fan but i actually really like MGS4 still own a copy

I'd only get Volume 2 for any extra games. I still have my copy of MGS4 on PS3, so whenever I want to play it again, I'll just play that. I beat it before trophies existed, so finally getting the trophies for the PS3 version works for me. MGSV doesn't need to be part of a collection since you can play it easily on a PS5, but I suppose I get it to an extent if their intention is to literally release the whole Metal Gear collection at some point with these volumes.

@Kidfried Thanks for your interest in my thoughts. I moved the long answer here, in case extended discussion ensues. The Assassin’s Creed thread is locked so this one feels like a reasonable place to post it.

So regarding how to vote in a face-off between Metal Gear Solid 1 vs. Assassin’s Creed 2 for greater overall game in the current megapoll —

My personal history with the MGS series did start with MGS1, so it had its chance to really make the initial impact. However it didn’t quite resonate as high for me as it has for others. Outside of the Psycho Mantis battle, I have very few memories of that sole playthrough. Make no mistake, it is a game I really love. I look forward to a chance to replay a remaster of it in the future. But in contrast, AC2 became more of a personal obsession when I played it. AC2 vs. MGS3 or MGS5 will be a harder choice for me. Those two MGS games were more impactful and captivating to me and I flop back and forth between 3 and 5 when trying to decide which is the best of the MGS series.

Regarding AC2, I’m a pretty big AC fan (although not zealous enough to have played them all), and I think we all forget just how influential AC2 was in the grand scheme of open-world games. I think it was one of the first of the genre to set many trends which we see still used by games like the Horizon series, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man, etc. (Even Zelda BotW if I’m not mistaken has some borrowed elements). I don’t know for sure if the “Ubisoft Towers” started with the AC games but I certainly think AC2 popularized them at the very least.

AC2 was my first real exposure to that series, although when I bought the game I got a free copy of the first game bundled. Back then I was less obsessive than I am now about playing game series in order, but I did try to start with AC1 and after playing it for about 3-4 hours, I was too bored of it and just itching to play the newest one so I skipped straight over to AC2. The first game was bogged down with lackluster environments and too much of the dull exposition about the animus. Altair was also a rather bland protagonist and I immediately liked Ezio much better. The more I played it, AC2 became just an absolute benchmark in gaming, at least for me personally.

Like many older games, I don’t know that AC2 has held up over time, and by modern standards it’s dwarfed by many games now that do its established formula better. In that sense I think MGS1 has more timelessness because I suspect it still would feel fresh to play for a newcomer in 2023 vs AC2 which would no doubt feel dated compared to Horizon Forbidden West or Ghost of Tsushima.

So it does come down to subjective criteria in the end. And I suspect we’ll have a lot more of these dilemmas in coming weeks as great games clash head-to-head in the poll. When I approach choosing a greater game I have an internal and largely subconscious formula that I go through which includes:

• personal enjoyment
• emotional impact
• longevity
• influence on the industry
• innovation
• artistic merit
• effect on society
• and just overall nostalgia.

Some combination of how a game stacks up in all those areas results in a rough gut decision of which game is greater.

As great as MGS1 is and even the series as a whole, I think it’s lacking in any persistent influence in the industry. I don’t think there are modern games that are using MGS’s template or copying what it did, necessarily. That’s no knock against the game or franchise, but it’s a factor when I consider what’s a “greater game.”

I’m going to admit now that I’m being hypocritical though, because the game I consider the greatest of all time has very few copycats or peers either, so that’s why I say influence of industry trends is only one of many factors I think about when passing judgment.

I love these interesting discussions though! 😄 Having to defend one’s choice really makes for an exercise in deductive reasoning. Nevertheless, at the end of the day there’s a non-measurable emotional and subjective part of the equation, to be sure.

@Th3solution Regarding the copycats bit. Some games are great, because they've been hugely influential and many games have taken inspiration from them. Others are just so great because they're immensely unique. I think I voted Kentucky Route Zero, and there's still no game that I would call a Kentucky-like (hehe).

For me AC2 is a bit worst of both worlds in that regard. It was hugely influential, but it's not like it's ideas were so groundbreaking or well executed that I'd vote for it. And because there are so many games in the series, it's not a game that feels incredibly unique either. For me, it doesn't help that Revelations (built on the same engine as 2) is just a more fun game.

Metal Gear Solid is a stone cold classic, and even though I wasn't there when it released, and even though it didn't impress me as much as the others, I still voted for it.

• It has some great memorable moments. Like the Sniper Wolf fight, the Mantis fight, and the moment in the cell at the start.
• Without it MGS3, one of my favorite games of all time, wouldn't have existed. Voting against a game like that, feels like voting against your own parents!

@Kidfried Yes, it’s true, indeed. My GOAT pick is Shadow of the Colossus. A game very rarely emulated and still a one-of-a-kind. Outside of a few weak attempts, it’s template of gameplay and story telling has not really been imitated. So I definitely follow your logic there.

And I see your point about the AC games. Revelations was probably a better game, although it didn’t seem to have pop of newness that AC2 did. Ironically I have a similar sentiment about the MGS games, in that they got better and more fun as they went along, and so even with the nostalgia of MGS1 being the first, it’s probably the weakest of the series in the fun department. But a lot of gamers (although not you or me) consider MGS1 the pinnacle and I think it’s because of the impact of it being the first entry.

But yeah, when/if it comes to AC2 vs. MGS3, I’m going to have a harder time and probably lean toward Big Boss there.

@Th3solution I certainly agree the gameplay for these games just got more fun as the series progressed. Already I was having more fun exploring the tanker in 2, then I was exploring the facility on 1 for example. More well made from a gameplay perspective, and of course weirder as well!