When was the last time you read a news story about Bungie and Destiny 2 that was genuinely positive about the game? If you only get your gaming news here at Push Square, it would be last week: the new armour set themed around The Witcher 3 looked pretty cool. It was then pointed out you could actually buy the RPG's Game of the Year Edition for less than the cost of just one of the three armour sets on offer.
A slightly unfair comparison, perhaps, since Destiny 2 is free-to-play and The Witcher 3 is an eight-year-old game, and the latter isn't on sale at all times. However, following a disappointing DLC launch in Lightfall, significant company layoffs, and now an incredibly cynical $15 starter pack that's been pulled as quickly as it was released, it's just another example of how the perception of Bungie has steadily grown more negative over time.
The problem for Sony is it's already bought Bungie for $3.6 billion to help with the company's charge into the live-service space, setting up a "live-service centre of excellence" and allowing it to consult on (and delay) projects like The Last of Us Multiplayer. How can it do so with any authority, though, when the developer doesn't seem so excellent itself?
Bungie may have been a pioneer back in 2014 as it launched Destiny, but fast-forward nine years and it feels like dark clouds have been hanging over the Washington studio for a while now. The downward turn in fortunes really kicked into overdrive with the release of Lightfall at the start of this year, an expansion that was billed as a huge story beat for the series as it nears its conclusion. The end product was not so, disappointing fans with little in the way of proper story or closure.
What's followed in the months since is a seasonal content model hardcore fans seem to have long grown tired of. Not offering enough content or reasons to engage for the handful of months each season remains active, the number of users actively playing Destiny 2 has dropped to an all-time low in recent times. It's hoped next year's DLC The Final Shape — which has just been officially delayed by four months — will bring about significant improvements, but that's now seven months away instead of three. Will there be enough of a playerbase still interested in returning to Destiny 2 at that point to make the expansion a success? Who knows.
The delay is a result of substantial layoffs at Bungie, with around 100 jobs cut. Some of those employees were on the development side and begged higher-ups to implement positive features to bring players back, while others were community-facing. The developer could have done with the latter as it embarrassingly releases and then pulls one of the most cynical, blatantly money-grabbing microtransactions the industry has seen in some time.
For $15, Bungie wanted to sell new players a "starter pack" containing Exotic weapons that have no place in the current Destiny 2 meta, a fancy ship, Sparrow, and Ghost, and some different currencies. Instead of taking on board community feedback about lowering the prices of old expansions, a higher-up has decided to try and take advantage of new players who won't know these items are actually just kind of useless. The microtransaction has already been pulled following the community's extremely negative reaction to it, but the damage has already been done. Who thought this was a good idea? The same Bungie leading Sony's "live-service centre of excellence".
The whole situation casts Bungie in a poor light, and puts some doubt on any operations it's got in the works with Sony. Someone at Bungie thought a $15 starter pack full of bad content was a good idea for Destiny 2, so is this what the live-service centre at Sony HQ considers fair game also? Such a microtransaction wouldn't have received as big a backlash as this at release as the community wouldn't have been able to so easily determine how worthless it is, so will Concord ship with one because the "live-service centre of excellence" told it to?
It's going to take years until we can determine — at least from a public-facing perspective — whether Sony's decision to acquire Bungie and set up such a centre was a good idea or not. However, as the hardware manufacturer's push into the live-service space had already been determined when it bought the developer, was Sony in a situation where Bungie was still the best studio to bet on? Who else with a live-service focus could it have actually purchased?
Hoyoverse, with its money-making machines Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail, seem to be out of reach at this point. GTA Online is a Game as a Service, but Sony's never going to buy Rockstar Games. Massive Entertainment, the vast developer behind The Division wouldn't have been let go by Ubisoft as it's now got Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws, and The Division 3 in production. The only somewhat realistic acquisition we can think of would be Warframe studio Digital Extremes. It was reported in 2020 that Sony was actually considering a bid for the company. However, Sony announced its intentions to buy Bungie just before The Witch Queen launched, a Destiny 2 expansion widely regarded to be one of the best. Sony probably thought it had bet on the right horse at that point.
18 months later, though, and Bungie doesn't seem to be in a particularly good place. It's far too late for Sony to pull out of any deal now, but with disappointing seasonal support, layoffs and noteworthy drops in revenue, and unforgivable microtransactions upsetting its community, is Bungie really the right developer to have helping Sony produce live-service games? Why should Fairgame$ developer Haven Studio listen to Bungie when it can't get its own game quite right? The team needs to right the ship thick and fast.
How do you feel about Bungie helping Sony with its live-service efforts? Do you think Bungie is the best developer in the space still or should Sony have opted for someone else? Place a vote in our poll and share your thoughts in the comments below.
Is Bungie the right developer to be helping Sony with its live-service push? (774 votes)
- Yes, they're still the best in the business
- I think so, but I'm having some doubts now
- I'm not sure
- Probably not, there are too many issues
- No, Sony should never have bought Bungie
Comments 87
On current evidence, I think you've got to say no. Which is somewhat worrying as a PlayStation fan!
Yeah, its a pretty obvious NO at this point. A terrible investment by Sony where they really tried to take the easy way into first party sponsored live service addiction based predation. Doing so buying an entity that is old, and continually losing positive sentiment.
Most of Sony's decisions this gen have been in the interest of greed, and while all of this poor decision making and community stonewalling continues, it's the loyal platform fans that will really feel the brunt of it as they try and right the ship. If they do at all.
At least we have solid third-party output to look forward to!
I have been unfortunate enough to now see many of my gut reactions are still sort of valid. It isn't a good thing when negative Nellies are right in their complaining.
If I'm Naughty Dog I'm mad as hell. There have put out hit after hit. Then these guys walk in out of nowhere with the power to shut down a game?
A lot of their practices are very predatory - but isn't that almost all GaaS type games? They all use FOMO or other tactics to engage players just like Destiny.
I think what Bungie has nailed, is knowing how to engage players for years, and they have massive data on what works and what doesn't. And for the most part, even with all the negativity over the years (almost every expansion....) They still have managed to engage a HUGE number of players for 7 years and kept a studio of 1000 people financed through it.
The issue is in the fact that D2 has failed to innovate enough over time, and resources clearly spread out other places. It's a fantastic game to play, the gunplay is phenomenal. But after 7 years you're going to start to get burnt out if it's not innovating enough. Bungie should have leaned more into the MMO aspects of the game (which they've moved away from dramatically) and spaced out larger sized expansions and big overhauls versus repetitive seasons. But again, it's all good data for Sonys other games.
I own all the DLC's on PC 1200h (thanks to cross save i got a platinum on PS) and recently i decided PC gaming is too expensive to me so i bought PS5 and have like like 8-10h a week to even consider it gaming time... Now on PS5 i have to buy the stuff i already own (besides Beyond Light and The Witch the included in PS Extra) to continue? LOL
Besided those i have to buy them again on another platform?
Voted I'm not sure, simply because it's far to early to be saying its been a pointless acquisition. Marathon could do really well yet and be a huge success for PlayStation and Bungie?. So have this same vote again a little while after Marathon is out
I think at this point Bungie are a bit like a ballon. Full of air and nothing else.
Oh. And it’s got a leak.
I still think it is too early to say. Bungie has to dedicate employees to helping out with this initiative, where in the past they would have been solely focused on Destiny itself. I think the experimentation they are doing with microtransactions is a step in the right direction, especially if they are willing to eat crow and take some of them off the marketplace. We also don't know what exactly they are advising on, because it could be as simple as just the games mechanics and not just their use of microtransactions. It is hard to debate that Destiny is not a good shooter and that is the core of any live service game. I don't know, I'm willing to give them some time.
For me that seasonal loop is dreadfully boring. In any game, not just in Destiny.
I'm easy to please too. Something like Bloodborne's chalice dungeons that I can play at my own pace, with regular environment updates and a new raid every 6 - 12 months would keep me going for years.
But a seasonal grind with a time limit? Ugh. Even the Destiny gunplay can't pull me through that.
Regarding that content pack, I wasn't surprised to hear about it at all - I've used this example before because I'm playing Diablo a lot lately, but right now I'm sitting in the Diablo IV shop once again talking myself out of buying The Bloodsworn Hunter skin.
A disgustingly normal offer in a live service game.
So when I saw the Destiny thing the other day I just chuckled.
Regarding Destiny, I think it will be fine by next year. That gunplay is just so crisp and fun. A big Halo style campaign to wrap up the story will bring in a lot of players. Since the very start Destiny always seemed like an exercise in learning from mistakes/seeing what they could get away with to me.
As for Bungie, SIE haven't made a bad investment in a long time so I'll be surprised if this doesn't yield benefits. I'm very eager to see what Marathon turns out like.
Bungie was the only realistic one. Everyone else is owned. Now we won’t ever know but looking at past examples having single player focused teams release live service games by themselves ends horribly most of the time or it takes years for it to get figured out. The problem isn’t with bungie it’s more so the whole shifting trends away from everything being live service. Bungie is having a down moment but they still are one of the most proven teams that focus on live service games.
GAAS ruined Bungie as a developer. Why would I want them to lead other studios?
Seriously, you go from a nearly flawless series of Halo games to where Destiny 2 has gone and it’s obvious Sony made a mistake with that mindset.
Big however though… If Bungie could just go back to making games like they used to instead of continuous content machines, I would take that in a heartbeat. As much as I don’t like what they’ve become in their model, their gunplay is still phenomenal. I’d love Destiny if it wasn’t so… well… honestly… Destiny.
@Shepherd_Tallon exactly this. Reality is that bungie is gonna be fine and everyone is gonna forget about this once final shape comes out. We were just talking about epic and their layoffs and a month later they are breaking player records with og Fortnite. Definitely think it isn’t a bungie problem but more of an industry problem with so many live service games shutting down and it appears the vast majority of the layoffs being from live service games.
That will not be answered until we see what comes after Destiny 2.
D2 should have ended ages ago.
The world they created is fantastic, and when you get new content the gameplay still clicks and a blast to play with friends. But this chapter of Destiny is done.
New players cant even play the story the way this nonsense is set up. I would never invest to start Destiny 2 today if I was a new player.
Time to finish and move on
@NinjaSixx Tencent owns 40% and in no way would they want to sell their shares and overall epic is way way too big for Sony. Bungie was the only realistic one they could afford. Also have to look at the overall aspect of bungie and Destiny. Destiny is one of the most successful live service games there is and it is a good bet. The bigger problem isn’t with Bungie it’s with the shifting of the industry away from everything being live service.
I wish Sony could unbuy them, complete waste of money considering their heavy price tag (3.6 billion compared to $229 million for Insomniac!) and also their insistence that they will not make any exclusives for PlayStation 🤦
Haven't the majority of the expansions for this game been considered on the poor side?
I think it was just more of a response to MS splurges of late.. a knee jerk one at that. And obvs it would help Sonys live service ambitions but definitely more of a response I think
My opinion is that Destiny 2 caters to existing players and newbies are largely out of luck and will have to spend a huge amount of money to just get into the game. Most of the " unused content" Bungie removed was the single player content which made in almost impossible for any new player to get to a decent level or power without spending lots of money. Destiny 2 is become gimmicky and it seems any useful game strategy get nerfed by Bungie because Bungie doesn't want the game played that way.
@NinjaSixx when I say shift I don’t mean every single live service game is gonna die, absolutely not. The big players “Destiny, Fortnite, etc” will remain and there will always be new games that come up and do well. I mean the shift as a more balanced industry with a healthy balance of single player non live service games and live service games. So many of the best selling games this year are single player games coupled with dozens of live service games closing is what I mean by a shift.
I’m not convinced that it’s worth doing any sort of ‘shift’ towards live services. The ship has mostly sailed, you see 99% of attempts fail as the 1% remain strong. 1 or 2 yeah, knock yourselves out. Your entire future strategy? A complete waste of resources.
It definitely felt like the Bungie acquisition was a panic move at the time given Microsoft's acquisition spree. The whole dilemma of "What happens if Microsoft's acquisition spree results in CoD/FIFA (EA Sports FC)/Fortnite/GTA being taken away?" will have put Sony in a difficult spot.
I do feel acquiring Bungie and putting them in charge of live service backfired but I feel the entire live service push backfired.
Whatever else you can say about Bungie, they know how to make excellent gun/shooting mechanics, and though they are on the wane, they have as much experience as anyone at keeping a successful gas game that lasts for years - something very few have managed.
As a fully owned Sony studio, I have no desire to sneer or belittle their accomplishments. Far from it, Im hoping they can instigate an upturn in destiny 2's fortunes and, more importantly, develop some compelling new content for ps5.
I still buy the game on an annual basis and would say absolutely not. The player base is constantly unhappy, the game is over monetized and they clearly waste a lot of money, they made a mess of D2 launch and that was after redoing the game entirely.
I've always felt that PS overpaid for bungie. 3.6 billion is a pretty crazy amount for a dying fps live service game. I am interested to see what bungie do in the future but just mro live service I imagine
I haven't really played Destiny 2 since it's first year. I found much of the changes they made from Destiny 1 completely backwards and diminished much of my drive to play it. Every so often, I would try to jump back in, but since they switched to the free-to-play, seasonal model, I've found pretty much nothing to interest me. It's sooo bad at onboarding new or lapsed players.
That said, the foundation of the game is solid, so there are plenty of talented artists working on the game, but management seems to be completely detached from reality. There needs to be a serious shake up in the top brass and decision makers at the studio.
I probably sunk 1000 hours into Destiny 1 and countless more into Halo; even played a ton of Myth and Myth 2, back in the day. Bungie used to be one of my favorite studios, but I just can't understand the template they're using right now.
I really hope they use the Final Shape as the final DLC for Destiny 2. They need a hard reset. They're playing a game of attrition that no one can win.
The issue isn't Bungie its Sony trying to jump on the live service train long after it took off. Fact is new live service games aren't really happening now, F2P anime gacha's are about the only ones taking off but stuff that Sony has planned and stuff like Suicide Squad are destined to bomb because the audience they want would rather stick with Fortnite.
yes, people forget gaas are FUN (to their market) to a level they keep coming back after years. Destiny 1 was like that, Destiny 2 is mid and people are still there. The tlou thing was about not being years good, not about monetization.
@nessisonett I think Playstation's bet is a sort of "scatter-shot" approach. They've got 10 (theoretically) live-service games in various stages of production, but I don't think they're under the impression that they'll all succeed. They just need one big hit that will justify the expense of all the others, but they need to cast a wide net, since the live-service player base is incredibly hard to convert from one game to another.
I also think the majority of those live-service games aren't 1st party, so the general Playstation single-player pipeline is largely unaffected.
It was a billion dollar mistake by Sony. I guarantee that TLOU mp game was probably going to be in line with The Day Before, but way better. But Bungie came in and said it didn't have enough microtransactions to try and trap people in. So Sony being a Bungie lap dog said scale it back because they think Bungie is the king of live service. Even though they are supporting a dying live service game as we speak.
@KundaliniRising333 I 100% agree. It's the first time since before the PS3 that I'm looking over the fence to see what the competitor is offering, and it all stems from the decisions Sony has made this generation.
I said NO when the news first broke and still stand by that.
They sold full price games with very expensive DLC, then added in a store, traditional season pass and then new at the time battle passes, along with removing story content that you purchased. Destiny NEVER should have been a success.
F ALL OF THAT!
And Sony bought them for their expertise to implement all of that crap into their own games?! 🤮
Customers that support that crap are ruining gaming.
I have never played Destiny, but I just found out about the "Content Vault". Very motivating for new players...
"Massive Entertainment, the vast developer behind The Division wouldn't have been let go by Ubisoft as it's now got Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws, and The Division 3 in production."
It's far more complex than that. MASSIVE is the drive core tech developer of Ubisoft's Snowdrop Engine. Many of their games use it now, they would be losing their core tech arm after converting games like Farcry over to using it. I would not be surprised if they ditched Anvil editor and the underlying engines they keep hooking up to it in the future and finally shelve that tech in favor of snowdrop, once they actually optimize its code and stop processing raw text.
Only reason they got Avatar was because they were the tech providers for snowdrop, not because the developer was of any quality. The Division 2 was a flop and The Division 1 was a mess. I'm honestly confused how there is a Division 3, I'm pretty sure that game is going to not win them any brownie points. Don't even get me started on how boring their new star wars game looks.
As far as Bungie goes, I've been confused by the acquistion from the very start. People have been complaining about that train wreck for years. Forsaken was probably as close as hte game ever got to the original vision of Destiny, which Destiny has never managed to achieve. A lot of good faith put into the game, but as it stands bungie is a shadow of its former self and has no idea what its doing or how its going to survive. Honestly I think they should step away from live services and find some way of repackaging destiny to move it away from its current live service model. For them to give advice to Sony developers is a bit of a joke. Then again some how sony took a good thing like Uncharted 2's Multiplayer and ruined it on Uncharted 4. Haven't been back in some time.
Money could have been much better spent on bolstering what Sony was already good at in my opinion.
Now with bungie under Sony's roof maybe Sony will have the excuse and mindshare to use the limited dlc that will be removed eventually even though player's have bought it.
they are certainly not. bungie has no business in meddling with sony's internal studios. perhaps sony asked them to? but that was the wrong route as well. ultimately, sony made a big mistake in purchasing bungie. they will pay the price for it soon enough as that studio has clearly lost its way.
Yes. Hear me out: Bungie is famous for dropping the ball with its Destiny franchise. We all want "live services" to fail, and Bungie is well suited for this.
Microsoft buys Activision and ZeniMax (Bethesda) and several other developers. Sony responds by buying Bungie, basically acquiring the Destiny IP and not much else. Yeah, as a PS owner who bought every PS console and handheld, I would say that was a bad decision.
@Splat 100%. They should be pissed, they drop us amazing games and bungie probably told them to drop the game because they didn’t sell predatory packs.
I think it’s still a little early to tell. I don’t think Bungie was a bad purchase as some have suggested. Live service games hit or mostly miss. Even some that didn’t do well at the start can turn things around. Bungie is having a bit of a hard patch. I think Sony trying so many live service games is a huge gamble. Knowing Bungie’s experience, I would want their opinions, but I wouldn’t take it as a final word.
Plot Twist: no one wants another live service.
You can buy the key for the upcoming dungeon in D2 for the same price as one of the witcher skins. That's insane. All the weapons in that "starter" pack can be gotten for free.
We all know Sony overpaid for bungie. My main suspicion is that bungie is sabotaging itself to get out of their agreement. Bungie has long been the industry’s serial dater, and doesn’t stay with one “owner” for long compared to its peers. Am I the only one who wonders about this?
Well... a terrible idea deserves a terrible execution. May be for the best. The sooner this is over the sooner they can go back to making great single player games that sell consoles.
no they’ve made halo & sucked ever since
No wonder Jim Ryan is jumping ship, too afraid to stick around and see the mess he has made.
@Ken_Kaniff the sony today is definitely not the sony of yesterday . you want ps2 and early ps4 sony ? thats long gone . ps3 sony wasn’t bad either . but ps5 sony is terrible , still the worst playstation of all time going into 2024
Sony should just sell Bungie and get off from life service games. Playstation community was not built around these games.
The votes here are kind of hilarious and out of touch. Bungie has pulled off a rare feat rarely seen in gaming. How many Live Service Games do you know of that lasted this long and isn't world of warcraft?
I'll wait.
Who would you rather have in charge of Sony's push? 343 Industries? Literally any Ubisoft developer? lul.
Sony made an amazing acquisition with insomniac and a terrible one with bungie imo.
$3.6 billion was a ridiculous price in comparison and there’s no way they should have authority over naughty dog etc just because they created halo and destiny. Sony madness at its best.
@Kelrics90 most of the top most played games on steam are OLD live service games
Right now for a witcher collab with bungie. 20 bucks per armor. 60 if you want the lot. Bungie left activision to just become another activision.
@Kelrics90 I rather be out of touch then support bad business practices from mini activision.
Also are we forgetting the huge loss in revenue bungie is experiencing and will continue to experience until they get their ***** together? Not to mention the layoffs.
But yes I'd rather bungie in charge of this push. So it can fail. Live services need to die.
Square Enix.
It’s a MMORPG, but Final Fantasy XIV has been an amazing showing for Square Enix. From its disastrous 1.0 launch to the redesign and launch of what it’s become today…and it’s been around since the end of the PS3. The lessons learned from that crash and burn would be priceless.
The second this acquisition was announced I said it was the pointless acquisition of all time. Bungie is a totally overvalued developer that somehow continues to fail upwards, presumably because a lot of people got Halo for christmas when they were kids and the rose-tinted glasses are fully engaged.
Even if you like Destiny, divorce yourself from that for a second and think about it as objectively as you can. Destiny was mediocre on launch, middling reviews, and it got better over time. Destiny 2 learned nothing from that, also launched mediocre, made many mistakes, and then it improved over time.
But the fanbase for the franchise never seems happy. From the outside looking in - I played Destiny but haven't played 2 - it seems like everyone who likes the games likes them in spite of themselves. All people do is complain about it. This weapon sucks now, everything costs too much, not enough story, pointless pvp, whatever.
Maybe I'm unlucky and only see the people moaning but it seems like Bungie constantly gets it wrong with Destiny, and then couple that with the cratering revenues, the lay-offs...
Sony bought a dud with Bungie. Total waste of money. And they shouldn't be letting Bungie dictate what other teams making live service games are doing, because from my perspective, the only reason their live service game is a success is because of brand loyalty.
I do not quite understand how people argue here. It does not seem to me that anybody here has much clue.
In my humble opinion, It will take a couple of years until one can see whether the Bungie acquisition was good or bad. And likely one will never know, since it is mostly the Bungie "expertise" SIE was after, and Bungie's impact may not be visible.
At the moment the only visible impact is that a GaaS running for 7 years(?) released an expansion which was not appreciated as much as the previous ones, and that Bungie influenced SIE's decision to delay, or put Naughty Dog's multiplayer on ice. Nobody knows whether that was/is a good or bad decision. People just assume that Naughty Dog's multiplayer would have been the best thing since sliced bred and Bungie just sabotaged that. Whether that is true or not nobody knows.
Then concerning Sony's missteps(?) in direction of GaaS: A very large fraction of players doesn't play anything other than COD, Fortnite, (ex-)FIFA, minecraft, roblox. I don't like any of these titles, and from my perspective any investment (marketing, financing development) is a waste of money. For Sony it is probably very beneficial. Am I interested in GaaS ? No. But, if this fills Sony's wallet to support more risky games, I am all in for that. So far, concerning Sony's recent GaaS attempts, GT7 seems quite successful (though, I don't really know, but I have my SP fun with it), and destruction all star presumably wasn't. Not sure whether there was any other attempt (?). Compared to those, I could imagine, that Bungie still does much better. I personally have no idea what makes up a successful GaaS game, and whether Bungie actually has some "unique" expertise in this field. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But, I would be surprised if anybody in here would have any clue.
Personally, I think GaaS are double-edged swords. On one hand people seem to get enjoyment out of a long running franchise with continuous evolution. On the other hand they exploit people's weakness and create some kind of addiction, and do not necessarily bring real enjoyment to people. But, I have not engaged into any, so I just imagine what it could be like.
Concerning IP acquisition: I don't think playstation is where playstation is by buying IPs. They managed to get interesting titles to playstation, and acquired expertise to create amazing new IPs, or acquired studios which had been in the process of developing new IPs. In that regard I don't think MS strategy to buy up every IP they can get hold of is a good strategy. It gives the illusion of amazing content, but is not necessarily a good investment in the future. But, maybe it is and everything we will play in the future will be cod, minecraft, doom and candy crush and never anything else.
Concerning playstation in general, at the moment there are few positive life signs from playstation studio's, so it is hard to say whether there is an amazing future ahead for playstation studio's or whether everything goes downhill from here on. Maybe we get some in December or we have to wait for the next year .
Can't help thinking there is so much drama behind the scenes at Sony HQ that it would make for one hell of a TV Show.
Of course starring Harvey Keitel as Jim Ryan.
Bungie were better run and less money grabbing under Activision that says alot about the company. Bungie has the worst monestisation practices in the business, Name me one other developer that has deleted paid content from there customers! Its a huge shame as there shooting gameplay is up there as the best in the business its just everything else around it that lets it down.
On a side note I wish Push Square would stop saying Destiny 2 is Free to play thats very misleading as most of the free to play content has been deleted at least all the meaningful content has.
definitely not, the thing they did with the vault alone is ridiculous and downright wrong. I started D2 a few weeks ago, its extremely bad for newcomers. On the other hand Sony itself has no clue what a good Multiplayer or GAAS game has to look like. So their marriage seems perfect.
As someone who has never played Destiny or Destiny 2, I think the Destiny 2 model has revealed itself to be fundamentally flawed. I occasionally hear about the fun that community is having over there, and think "hey, maybe I should give it a go". But then I remember that most of the historic content is now gone from the game, so it would be like jumping into a TV show at Season 5 or something, and my interest is immediately killed. I imagine I'm not alone. So there's this huge barrier to entry for new players, who don't want to join a game and have no idea what's going on. I also imagine that the community erodes over time, as it does for every game, as new releases and new interests take priority. (Plus 2023 has been absolutely full of really good, longer games which would take players away from Destiny for long stretches...) So you've got a model that increasingly makes it harder for new players to onboard, while losing old players.
Perhaps the model should be more like FF14, which everytime I read about it it's going on about how the community is growing and very loyal.
They should have used the money to buy a better studio that added great games,genres, and IP's to Playstation studios. Or used the money to expand the studios they already have.
Said it before, Sony should bought Ubisoft instead. They have experience with live service and single player games. Also they have XDefiant coming out that was being billed as a COD killer. If it does take off then there is ur COD replacement if MS does make it exclusive. Which I can't see them doing.
@StrickenBiged Spot on, totally agree. I was about to say this very thing, which a few others have said in these comments but you effectively summarized. That is, the biggest issue with Bungie’s approach is that they created a weird situation where the early player base will naturally attenuate whilst any new player base is effectively shut out of joining in. It’s a recipe for eventual failure. Well, unless you can get the dwindling core fanbase to pay skyrocketing costs for microtransactions, and… welp, it seems like they’ve now found a limit that even their most loyal fans will not pay.
If they made it friendlier to join in as a new player, I would have almost certainly tried the game at some point. I’ve come close and really wanted to see what the game was all about, but everytime over the last few years that I come close to jumping in, the barrier to entry is too high now, due to things like the vaulted early content and lack of good onboarding options.
Based on yours and others comments, there’s a huge number of people like us out there.
@EvilSilentFrame finally a person who can think logically here. Like you said bungie is going through a hard patch rn and everyone will probably forget it once final shape comes out next year. Doing 12 out the gate was dumb but instead focusing on 6 spaced out covering different genres is a good idea. Also think a lot of Sony fans are pissed off cause they didn’t show off any new single player 1st party game at the showcase and only new live service games was a dumb idea. At least give us some sugar along with the medicine
@Shepherd_Tallon I agree i hate to play because you have to thats why i never want a subscription with rotating games it's like putting a timer on gaming having a second job.
@Flaming_Kaiser Exactly. I have enough deadlines in work. I don't need them in my hobby too.
@Nexozi Ubisoft would be a bad move. Yes they have several live service games but most of their games are right in PlayStation’s wheelhouse anyways. On top of that Ubisoft is insanely huge and adding all of that headcount would be a ***** nightmare
@lacerz last year it would appear like it would happen but now it’s highly unlikely. Given Square’s renewed commitment to Xbox support they are taking a page out of capcom, sega, and fromsoftware’s playbook and realizing to make the kinda money they want they need to be multiplatform
@Fishmasterflex96 Sony seems to be moving away from their single player experiences though. Which I think is a really bad decision and hope they reverse it. There doesn't seem to be much in the works for single player games. The only game I know about coming for sure in the future is Wolverine. There's a Loki God of War short spin off coming as well going by rumors. As for the size of Ubi that's a lot of talent to pick up at once. Also the teams are well established, it's not like you'd need to come in and make loads of changes.
@Oz_Momotaro But I did like Destiny though! It’s just their practices that drove me off of it. It’s clear Bungie can make a solid game, but their management is questionable with continuing engagement in their game. I don’t know anyone that still plays Destiny 2 because they’ve actively pushed away a lot of regular players. I knew a lot of “Destiny 2 is my game” people, so it’s weird to see that they’ve all left since the Sony acquisition. The bombed a bit when they were paired with Activision too.
@EfYI "Sony, where are the games!?"
thats an easy one to answer, they are being worked on? i feel like they are stuck in a difficult spot. either people complain games are announced too early and are too far off. or they complain the game was announced and it keeps getting delayed. i feel like 2024/2025 is going to be a big time frame for first party games.
I was optimistic at first, but after the major lay offs despite Sony allocating 1 billion in talent retention I lost all faith. There’s a difference between making a multiplayer mode with extra monetization and a live service, and if im Naughty Dog im mad at Sony for trying to make me do the latter.
They should make Bungie develop a new FPS to rival call of duty. The have the potential to do that, and Sony will have a new FPS multiplayer franchise.
@Martijn87 You do that! You will be very rich
@Nexozi Ubisoft has to solve its numerous work place culture problems. Also Sony isn’t moving away from single player, it’s just expanding into multiplayer. Sony didn’t do themselves any favors with not showing any big new single player 1st party games at the showcase. If there would have been at least one or two in addition to the live service games it would have went down a lot smoother
@Nexozi
It's hard to say Sony is moving away from single player experiences when they've released so many single player games this generation. What Insomniac has put out along with GoW and Horizon, not to mention the Bethesda and Final Fantasy contracts.
There hasn't been any "good" news regarding Bungie and Destiny since they pulled that anti-consumer ***** with TKK. The fact anyone bought D2 shows just how naive Bungies fanbase is (fact). On top of that though, Bungie hasn't released a good game since Halo CE (fact) and only rides on their diehard fans. How can this be proven? Most of the original Bungie team left and formed 343, who has continued the much maligned Halo series in Bungies absence. Nothing about the gameplay has changed drastically, the writing is still just as bad, and the series has always been a silly sci-fi that took itself too seriously. All that changed was the developer name who helmed it.
It's time people accept the fact that Bungie is no better than Ubisoft, R*, or CDPR... Extremely poor at their craft with a fanbase that doesn't know any better if something of quality came and struck them in the head.
@Nexozi but they aren't? they are still making plenty of single player games? sucker punch , naughty dog , santa monica , firesprite , bluepoint , insomniac , just to name a few studios are working on single player games. i'd rather they focus on building these games and showing them off when they are ready to be announced and they can be like hey it will be out on this date.
Bungie is pretty evil with monetisation. I recommend watching their GCD talk about Trust, Retention and Revenue to get an idea of how they work.
@lacerz @Fishmasterflex96 @twitchtvpat
I'm just replying to all. As the last couple of responses are just making up stuff that I haven't said. I didn't say Sony had stopped making single player games. I didn't say anything about the amount of single player games that have been released so far for the PS5. My point was that there is a greater focus on live service games. Which is true, it's why they bought bungie! If you go back you'll find stories about them wanting more live service games.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/sony-pouring-216bn-into-rd-for-live-service-games-and-extended-reality
The company aims to dedicate 55% of PS5 game development spending to live service games in the current fiscal year, ramping up to 60% for following year.
Though apparently this number has been revised down:
https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23954006/sony-playstation-live-service-games-marathon-last-of-us-factions
Probably not, though they can likely offer advice about what NOT to do, as well as technical know how, all of which is useful.
But then I’ve never believed Sony’s reasoning for buying Bungie. I’ve always suggested it was a bit of a panic buy / covering their bases after Microsoft’s intent to buy ABK & COD. Fact is Bungie was suddenly available and I don’t think they could risk losing another of the most played games/shooters/developers on their platform.
We now know COD isn’t going anywhere, but at the time this was less sure, Microsoft were offering MUCH shorter assurances then.
It was also felt Sony needed a marquee purchase at the time, to counter Microsoft.
Bungie isn't the right dev to lead their own live service game, let alone be the steward of Sony's GaaS projects. If Sony really want to make bank in this space they need to be looking to someone like HoYo.
While I think gacha is abhorrent, they make extremely high quality games that are F2P fair, know how to retain a playerbase with regular content and monetise in a way that attracts millions of low spending players. Obviously Sony couldn't afford to buy HoYo but they should look to their overall model.
@Nexozi yes they are expanding live service games , but they also hired and purchased developers for this purpose. all i was saying is people want to act like there is less focus on single player games , when the focus is still there. the problem is the bar is set higher and higher to give people the best game possible.
@nomither6 I couldn't have said it better myself. PS5 is definitely the worst generation so far, and looking ahead it seems it will only get worse.
@Ken_Kaniff unfortunately . but hey , atleast the ps5 sold 50million right ?
@nomither6 lol yea but that 50 million is from them riding off the good will from the PS4. Between now and 2027 or whenever the PS6 comes out I have a feeling MS will start to sway to market there way. Like I said in my OP it's this is the first time in 10 years I'm starting to look over the fence.
@Ken_Kaniff oh definitely, i was just being sarcastic about the 50million. its definitely because of the merits of the ps4.
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