God of War Creator Says Kratos Has Lost His Way

How is he too soft? This is the most natural progression of Kratos's character. Especially when you learn about what happened in the very beginning.

Kratos got his vengeance. His arc was done. He had to move on.

How do I put this. I agree with neither.

Jaffe is right, had they pitched 2018 without Kratos, I'd have been less interested. Kratos' baggage is what makes Kratos interesting in 2018. We have this legacy of a character that screwed up hard because of his quest for vengence. That quest for Vengence was viseral, it was there, it was in your face every step of the way. If you really got into God of War you were there for that Vengence, that anger, that rage. I think Ascension strayed a bit trying to accomplish what 2018 did, but in the wrong direction, trying to build him out from the man before. It was a game that needed to be released before God of War 3, inspite of its questionable game play changes and other issues.

That being said I think these changes to Kratos were necessary. 6 Games (not including the cellphone game) of this greek kratos was starting to slow down. His reason for vengence became dulled with time and had to end with GoW3 and eventually lead into GoW2018. To breath new life into the franchise in several ways. So in that Jaffe is wrong, the arc was done, the story completed. To continued we needed change.

We have lost something though, the heart of the franchise that began it all. He has become soft. There was a time Kratos would not hesitate to kill his enemies or bother with life lessons. So the real question is, maybe its time GoW moved on from Kratos. Maybe it is time for Kratos to fullfill another roll with a new God of War taking his place. A new betrayal, and a new vengeance.

One of the all time turbotw*ts in gaming. Utter utter melt.

So he's upset his writing wasn't as good ? , old kratos was basically hulk smash and very bland , this kratos is what got me back into the franchise

David Jaffe proving that he doesn’t understand what human growth actually is, probably because he’s never experienced a single moment of growth in his entire life, which is why he’s a bitter old clown making podcasts about video games that other people are making.

Dude is absolutely wrong. I like the growth we've seen with Kratos over the years, and changing as a person is a natural process.

At first I disagree since I like gow 1 ps4 story but when I think about it, I think the problem with making stories heavy protagonist is at some point the story end, you just don't care about it anymore.

Compare that to zelda that more heavy on gameplay, nintendo can make zelda games forever and not think too much about the story. In the end, I think it's better to make a new ip if there aren't new story that worth telling for game characters.

Stop giving this goon oxygen. He's an irrelevance in modern gaming.

Can we please stop pretending those were sequels to the game series?
It was a reboot (and became good) which has nothing to do with the first parts, not just a "grown up character"

"Creator David Jaffe" lol that's nice. He hasn't done sh*t in almost 10 years.

Welcome to the new chapter of - How a man in his 50s asking for attention looks like-

More like David Jaffe lost his way

Kratos' journey and progression through all the story's are brilliant. It's like life in general as everybody changes and adopts different life choices etc. This guy needs to focus on maybe making another character driven ip that lives up to his own expectations.

@Grimwood have you played Valhalla yet?

@Grimwood so where did the blades of chaos appear from then? Oh wait he didn't bring them along from the previous games that had nothing to do with these sequels oooops sorry reboots?

Pretty much saying what I've been saying from the start, feels nice to be vindicated by the creator of the series

@Grimwood lol they literally are sequels. It’s not a hard reboot if the story from the old games is literally discussed and referenced a lot throughout these new games. Maybe call it a soft reboot if you really want to go there.

I may have been a bit luke warm on Ragnarok as a whole, but Kratos himself was legendary. I've always viewed the character as one of the great gaming protagonists (yes, that includes back in the Greek days) and the recent games have only added to that arguement. I loved the greek trajedy arc and found Kratos fitted the roll perfectly, and I'd argue he was not as one note as many people believed.
But the growth in the norse arc was needed, he had been on a revenge quest for too long.

@nessisonett Big fan of ‘Melt’ as an insult. Top draw 👍

@Nepp67 Has a kid, gets disrespected by his kid, beaten up by women, supposed to be an immortal deity yet looks like his face just got pulled out of a car compactor or a weed whacker and has just been glued back on leatherface style. Softest demigod there is, goes from ripping people's heads off to being the big friendly giant/iron giant when he was clearly made to be a Darth Vader type character.

God of war has pretty much become the last of us where you got a child annoying you and you can't progress unless you find somewhere for them to climb up or something what kinda gameplay is babysitting npcs.

@Deityjester is that you, David Jaffe?

Even though people are dunking on Jaffe, that man created legendary PS IP with Twisted Metal and GoW.

He has the right to his opinion to the character he created. I do agree with him to a certain extent, despite liking the reboot.

Kratos has grown. Jaffe has not. Nuff’ said.

Newsflash David your Kratos was just a shallow edgy angry man designed for edgy mid 2000's teen boys. Kratos was never a good character in the Greek games he was just a power fantasy and way for us to have epic action fighting all of Greek Myth, writing wise though he was pretty terrible. Norse Kratos actually made me care and like the character, he actually grew with his audience like myself. Jaffe is just aged relic who clearly never grew up and went deep into right wing territory.

@Grimwood Um both games explicitly reference the Greek games with Valhalla basically being a somewhat love letter to them.

I don't think that Kratos is boring, but his son is definitely bringing the overall package down. I can see how some people might ***** on the new Kratos, but it's misguided.

@Deityjester Clearly you never really played the newer games and its funny you mention he should be like Darth Vader when Vader went "soft" because of his child.

Kratos in OG god of war barely had a character

I love David Jaffe but yeah I gotta disagree with him on this one. Kratos was an obnoxious, one note character in the original trilogy. He was mad and wanted to murder everyone and everything. That was it. If anything I played those games in SPITE of Kratos. Where as now in the norse games he's one of my favorite parts of them. But whether you like the new Kratos or not you should probably treat Jaffe with some respect! Afterall Kratos wouldn't exist at all if not for him. It's okay to disagree!

God Of War is up their with my all timer franchises (3rd after MGS and Resi). I'm older now and, and while I don't have kids, I appreciate the journey Kratos has been on. He deserves the slow, arduous reward of a peaceful life as a role model to his BOY. When I play GoW2018 and Ragnarok, I treat the previous games as the tragic backstory Kratos is trying to deal with and/or run away from. That makes the newer games so much more satisfying to play, the new Valhalla DLC emphasises that.

Can't fault Jaffe though, he's a fantastic creator. Thing is, he still very much comes across as the creator of the franchise as it was in it's original state.

Absolutely agree with him. Create a new IP. I’d love for the old Kronos to come back, along with the old world that was less sanitised. I’d love for the older games to be remade, but don’t trust Sony to not cut sections anymore.

Heh. Guy's a tool, absolutely, but I don't disagree that taking a non-character like OG Kratos and trying to make him sympathetic isn't a great idea. Create a new IP at that point.
Also, just my opinion but GOW 2018 has got to be one of the most overrated games ever.

He had to evolve with the audience, I played GOW 3 straight after I platinumed 2018 GOW, as I needed more! And whilst I loved it, can you imagine the Snowflake audience reaction to the sex scene, where you have to successfully stimulate a threesome with 2 women, with the required button presses! 🤣

kratos in the reboot games is not the same kratos of the originals irregardless of age. age isn't what changes your maturity, wisdom does & what wisdom doesnt do is completely change your personality.

not only is kratos replaced as a character, he has a different VA & character model from the face down. let me guess - "b-but kratos is aging with a dad bod!" . lol the only thing realistic about kratos aging is the original and this one are both gray with the same paintjob.

Well… like, that’s your opinion man.

@Shakybeeves the sex games and brutality are too severe for modern sony. games like classic god of wars, killzone, resistance, motorstorm, infamous , are just too edgy and abrasive

@themightyant Yes other people worked on it and Jaffe credits them rightfully but in the end he was the director and Sony offered him to do an external title in exchange for helping Santa Monica out with Kinetica. He's not a Kojima that plasters his own name 40 times.

@Tchunga i dont understand why people hate him. everywhere you look thats not his youtube channel people are always making personal insults about him, some of the comments here are pretty disgusting. i dont get why people personally attack others over their opinions about something entirely fictional. its very weird to me.

what did he do to people?

I do miss his old ways but I also love that he's matured now. They can still make games of his younger self again to bring it back. Can't be an angry man forever unless the next game has him being tricked into killing Atreus

Nonsense from jaffe, there's a reason why accession nearly killed the Franchise. That two dimensional angry kratos was well past sell by date.
He had to evolve, and it was done brilliantly.

I miss old God of War.
It was fast paced epic action, and felt like a proper video game, instead of a interactive movie.
Now it's too much about drama and feelings.
Too much Oscars/Awards bait.

I guess this is why I'm totally burned out on cinematic story focused games, and moved on to games that focus on gameplay.

But, just bring on all the comments of how wrong I am.

@Beeeee-AHH-eer
I hope he kills him anyway, the kid is so damn annoying.
But it wouldn't surprise me at all, if Atreus ends up killing Kratos.

it ain't what you do, its the way that you do it. The artistic debate is interesting, and a matter of taste, but I think what they did with the character, the mythological world and the gameplay in the new games was spectacular. I just finished Ragnarok and it blew me away right until the end.

I have my own critiques of the post-2018 evolution of the franchise, most notably in the TLOUization of certain gameplay segments, but to say that it's 'lost its way' is just absurd and he sounds like he's just struggling for relevance after last making a great game some two decades ago.

New Indy being pony has nothing to do with the fact that the character has grown and matured and Ragnarok's issues (in my opinion) had absolutely nothing to do with plot or character, quite the opposite. The same people who have a problem with Kratos growing and changing are the same people who thought it was unrealistic that Joel, a middle aged man, could be killed by Abby, a woman in the prime of her life who very obviously knows her way around a kettlebell. People change, they get weaker and stronger, they get less angry and their motivations change based on what life throws at them. We should want characters in well written fiction to reflect that reality, right?

I really have no interest in anything Jaffe has to say.

I can tell why people like watching him: he basically has the same point of views of your classic angry 14 year old boy and people like to hear what they think said back to them.

I'm personally glad we've escaped the milase of the white bald space marine period of gaming that he represents. And hey, if he doesn't like that, go make another game. I'm sure a sequel to Drawn to Death will be beloved by all...

@nomither6 The Last of Us Part 2 has a pretty raw rough sex scene and its one of the most brutal games out there. Sony never went "soft" they just don't make games purely for those who never touched grass before anymore.

@DennisReynolds you won't get anywhere with that argument, right wing chuds don't understand tlou2s sex scene as it doesn't include a hot model and it exists as part of a developed story, rather than something a horny teenager can beat off to in between gameplay sessions

Meh.i think Jaffe should've stayed and made it himself. He left so... he doesn't get a say anymore.

@NotSoCryptic I can understand to some agree but after GOW 3 he could only become a villian if they would have continued his ark. In the end he was becoming a monster Pandora was the last thing that redeemed his character.

I know and understand he wanted vengeance but in the end he was just as bad as the gods. Now he atleast he is a character he has something more then vengeance.

I think after he fought all the gods there was nothing left what would you make him do after that?

Thank the Lord that Jaffe isn't involved in the franchise anymore. What we are getting in those new, nordic GOWs is some of the best, more profound and nuanced storytelling to ever grace the medium. May it continue!!

I agree with him to an extent. 2018 I really enjoyed but Ragnarok felt a little off in some way, its hard to exactly pinpoint but it did feel like he had gone too far the other way.

Yeah right kratos the g.o.a.t. 🐐 👑.word up son

@get2sammyb Completely disagree. As Jaffe said between lines Kratos was NEVER ment to be pictured this way. He should stay hero. I completely understand Jaffe's inner anger that someone ruined his character. I would be upset too.

Imagine Super Mario with beard on wheelchair. Doesn't like? Me too. Because life of heroes shouldn't evolve even if some stupid director wants to.

Bless Jaffe! He should sue those who massacred his boy...

Jaffe is entitled to his opinion as we all are but that doesn’t mean he’s right. The original God of War game is an all-time classic that is made better with the growth Kratos as a character and Sony Santa Monica as a whole over the last nearly 19 years. Jaffe is a pretty intelligent dude but sometimes these rants of his don’t really show that.

@themightyant I 100% agree with you. He would have repeated repeated. Gow was done turning into halo in that fact and would have been road into the dirt Ascension and the psp games was done feeling it. Ascension was a poor attempt to cash in on the brand and was already going down the path of halo.The reboot was nessery and kept it respectful to the orignal games and built Kratos arc from that. Jeffy hasn't done nothing since God of War except Drawn to death as far as I know. He is that 50 year old man who won that one football game in high school and when you see him that's all he talks about because that was the only time in his life he did somthing amazing. Jeffy and Cliff blenski are one of the same jeffy left sony and had a ego and tried the whole make my own studio thing and cliff left epic after his fame with creating Gears of War also with tons of ego and set out to make his own studio and failed the fame went to their head with the hole Rockstar attitude of not needing anybody.

i agree i much prefer the originals

Man spitting facts.

Honestly? Kratos is a straight-up punk b***h now. I found it impossible to get more than 30 mins. into either reboot, try as I may. I must agree with David Jaffe on this one, and while they're only 2 opinions, they are nonetheless valid.

I couldn’t disagree more, Kratos is still who he is and he just grew in a very natural and convincing way that actually made him MORE interesting. But I mean he proceeds to force the gates of Valhalla open with his bare hands at the beginning of the new DLC …it’s not like he’s teaching gender studies in Athens.

I like the new kratos ,although I do wish they would've kept the gore of the originals

"Creators shouldn't let their life experiences inform choices when it comes to writing characters" has got to be one of the wildest takes I've ever read. To use Spielberg as an example just calcifies how clueless he is. As if Spielberg's family life and divorce haven't reverberated through almost every film he's ever made.

Ok so when Kratos character became stagnant the series saw less success. Look at GoW Ascension. It showed a drop in interest.

I love OG Kratos too, but after 3 there really wasn't anything left to do with him unless you ignore the game's ending.

2018 Kratos really does feel like a natural evolution of the character.

There were moments in Ragnarok that were so subtle that blew me away and I think 2018 worked so well because it was about Kratos evolution as a character. I loved the older games but the same thing today just wouldn't have the same impact as it did back then. I've really enjoyed the ride we've gone on together and can't wait to see where they go next!

I really loved the older games, but the new games are so much deeper. Jaffe deserves credit for the great stuff he has created......but I haven't agreed with his thoughts on a lot of stuff for quite some time.

@DennisReynolds lol that’s funny. video games is the quintessential & original “touch grass” hobby and still is.

@Mephisto2869 The new games ARE gory. Have you seen those wulver kill animations? Absolutely brutal

I always viewed the original Kratos as a parody of masculinity. I laughed a lot at his lines in the first 3 games. Throw in the jokey sex minigames and you have what I thought was a fun beat-em-up game with a sense of humor.

In terms of big spectacle set pieces and boss encounters, the new iterations absolutely fell short.

I don't mind the evolution they chose but to still have him mixing in the realms of gods, but completely get rid of that spectacle is basically just making an entirely different game and slapping Kratos in it, then writing in some story beats to really loosely make it all fit.

Sony first party output has over consolidated their library into gameplay designs that overlap between most of what has been on offer, and it's starting to run a little stale for me. I would much rather have some originality, versus these 6-8 year dev cycle, 150-300 million dollar bloated budget monstrosities that can feel very repetitive and sometimes basic in terms of gameplay, in favor of what amounts to generic playable movies. It really saps a sense of identity and creativity between them all.

@DogPark exactly , it was humorous and a fun game that had edge. there’s still some of us out there that want a pure fictional gaming experience and couldn’t care less about the character being “relatable” or “likeable” and not a whole bunch of super deep narrative , cutscenes out the ***, interactive movie walking simulators .

the reboot should’ve been an entirely new game with a different protagonist within the same universe as god of war at the least . but i’m sure they didn’t do that because they needed a familiar character and brand name as a safety net because it wouldn’t have sold as much

Having just finished the DLC today I must say I completely disagree. Kratos is in a great place right now.

@nomither6 The point is you're complaining about lack of sex scenes dude that's sad, if you want that stuff there's this site that has a name that ends in Hub why don't you go to that. As for violence yeah all the M rated Sony games are still pretty violent, TLOUP2 again is known for its pretty graphic violence and Ragnarok itself had its fair share of violence.

Of course Kratos wouldn't stay the same forever, but the problem I have with these "new" GoW games is that the lack of fan service and audio/visual references to the original trilogy sets it too far away from the source material. It took them one free DLC to understand the importance of fan service and Valhalla alone was better than the two full games. Watch this, and you'll understand what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXzY54_5qAc

@DennisReynolds i only said that response to reciprocate the context and extremity of yours which was essentially painting everyone that criticizes the sex appeal of a game under the same brush. it’s very prejudice to say the least and after reading you say - “ you're complaining about lack of sex scenes” , exposed your true intentions. you tunnel visioned the word “sex” and completely disregarded the rest of my comment as if that was the jist of it and ignored everything else .

hell , the mini games were literal QTE screens with a object shaking on a table lmao, it was no big deal compared TLOU2 but what made it good was the entertainment and humor of it. i hardly played it myself but i appreciated the novelty of it because i just like edgy things, you know this man

Sounds like sour grapes. He's just pissed off and holding on to his baby. Just get over it already. move on.

Totally agree, love God of war 1,2,3 & the PSP games. Yes the new ones are ok but as usual they have to change things to cater for the usual crowd. All the crafting of weapons doesn't interest me. Love the original story driven fixed camera action, easy blades of chaos upgrades, no ***** just brilliant to play.

@Tchunga violent yes ,I wouldn't say gory though, the boss deaths in the originals where really something else.

@nomither6 I focused on the sex part of your comment first and then i focused on the violence side so try reading i dunno.

I feel that it says a lot about a "gamer" when they cry their video game doesn't feature 3D pixel boobs and sex, if you have to turn to a game like God of War or Mortal Kombat for your kinks then yeah as i said you should touch some grass.

@caiol92 God of War 2018 literally gives you the series most iconic weapon in a powerful scene, has Athena appear and shows a vision of Kratos killing Zeus. Ragnarok goes far far deeper what with tons of mentions to the Greek games including mention of both his daughter and his brother, you also have talk of his Sparta upbringing as well as how magic worked in Greece and why its no longer there. You even see hints of the Ghost of Sparta starting to creep their way back in as well into Kratos.

I liked the originals more. Kratos felt like a wounded hurricane of vengeance, who was wrecking chaos around him and just could not stop until nothing was left. Pure anger, pure hatred, untamed power to destroy. This kept me glued to the screen with my jaw dropped. Newer GoW games are just...different. Yes, it certainly feels that Kratos has gotten older and tamed his inner beast to an extent, and this EXACTLY what makes the games less appealing to me.

He is right, I'm afraid..
Ragnarok is a great game.
The Valhalla thing.. not so much.
But he is soft as Mr whippy right now..
It's all flowers and feelings..

This article is shameful.. it's missing a lot of context. He admitted to having a bias towards the character as well as openly loving God of War 2018. He also said they should use their personal experiences to make new characters.. not add on to existing ones. Which I feel is definitely a correct take.

Kratos pretty much killed everyone in GoW 3, there weren't many avenues left to explore

It's called character growth Kratos needed a change he couldn't be the same for all these games it wouldn't make sense also gow2018 outsells all the other games by a lot

@Terra_Custodes I mean for a blockbuster AAA video game its pretty deep and certainly has more to say then very angry bald man killing Greek Gods in violent ways so the 14 year old boy playing can scream "SICK!!!".

Also darling many many things can be deep on different levels to different people. All you're doing is raging and acting pretentious because a video game and its studio aged with their audience and didn't want to just rehash the same old story. End of the day what made the original Greek games so good was the spectacle, action and how they pushed their consoles to the limit, Kratos though was no Dante or Bayonetta he had little character and was just a power fantasy for the people playing. What the Norse games done was give Kratos a character, give him depth and give him motives that aren't just blind rage and vengeance, he's by far a better character.

@DennisReynolds what a very ignorant response. your minds already made up, believe what you want. my comment that contained one sentence about it 😂 was in response to another guy mentioning it anyway .

two sides of the same coin , remember that next time you have another bigotry rant

@DennisReynolds Indeed, but other than those scenes from 2018, every other reference in that game and everything in Ragnarok are all dialogue through silent hallways. The one-take approach gives zero room for epic cutscenes or flashbacks.

Please, go and study some philosophy - Aurelius/Nietzsche/Heidegger and learn what profound actually is.

This is what a dumb person trying to appear clever looks like.

I kind of agree with him, but where else could they have gone with Kratos? Although the accepting yourself nonsense of Valhalla rang hollow to me and should have been called 'Sympathy for a Genocidal Maniac'.

@Grimwood God of War 2018 is a direct sequel to the previous games.

If was a reboot and a change of tone and direction, but still a a sequel. Everything that happened in the previous games is still canon.

@themightyant That would be so interesting and make one hell of a boss fight! lol

@nomither6 I never had a bigotry rant i just find it very strange how a subset of gamers complain when games don't feature sexualized outfits or nudity.

He's more introspective, but I just took that as the shift into the Norse mythology.

I have to agree with Jaffe. I've only played half of 2018 but when it wanted me to go pick flowers was when I gave up.

@Terra_Custodes I really don't care for what you think. Have a day.

Why does everyone insist on attacking Jaffe for his opinions? We can agree or disagree but seriously, attacking a man who voiced his opinion like he kicked your dog. Come on guys. Until we hold ourselves and our community to a higher standard gaming will always be looked at as a kids thing. Grow up

Every time David Jaffe opens his mouth I’m glad he’s not making video games anymore.

I don't know enough about him nor do I care.

Kratos had a family prior, now has a second family with Atreus. I think people think oh Kratos was only a killing machine but was he? Did his brother in the PSP game change much, did the main story entries family characters in cutscenes.

I think it varies. I don't mind stories in a sitcom with guys working stuff out I'm fine with it. I don't mind a father son dynamic in a game or a tv show. Does it depend on the scenes yes, but do I care that much now not really. I'm not one for relate-ability or emotional story telling so to me the story was fine, I just didn't like the gameplay/level design/missions.

I just found the Horizon world more interesting, but I had no interest in the open world/missions in it. Cauldrons I thought would be the better part of the game and I didn't like them either.

The characters are fine though. I don't mind them being focused on of certain details, scenarios. I don't mind whatever sitcoms cover of family matters/character presentation (I say as re-watching Family Ties, not talking modern sitcoms with this), or games. But it's not a priority for me in games.

He may have changes because of Atreus and others after the events of the other games because the prior family was prior to the events or during battles of the previous games.

I don't find the character that much worse or better between entries just the gameplay and story telling wasn't for me.

I prefer the niche Sony IPs same with Konami, same with Capcom, same with many others.

The major IPs aren't for me and the continuous Sony IPs just aren't my thing they changed them for a different audience and while that's fine I just don't like the direction they went in gameplay and story. Ratchet, God of War, Gran Turismo.

@Terra_Custodes As if your comment wasn't pretentious enough you then use Nietzsche (the edge-lord's favourite philosopher) as an example of a "deep" and "profound" thinker... did you miss the "/s" off the end of your comment by any chance?

@NotSoCryptic "A new betrayal, and a new vengeance."

so nothing in there about a new fresh original idea, then

Kratos didn't go soft, he just grew to realise his actions have consequences. He still does a lot of murder, he just considers his options first

@SuntannedDuck2

"I don't know enough about him nor do I care."

and yet you wrote a whole ass essay about it

@Zman0069 and we can call him a melt

@MattBoothDev hell, even his appearances in Soul Calibur and Sony All Stars Battle Royale are canon

@gnomedeplume speaking of unoriginal.