After days of The Last of Us: Part I cutscene and gameplay leaks, Sony and Naughty Dog have published a 10-minute deep dive into the development of the PS5 remake. The video covers the project extensively, sharing many comparison shots between the PS4 Pro and PS5 versions.
Along with gameplay, some of the top-level features included in the PS5 remake are a permadeath mode, a dedicated mode for speedrunning, many new unlockable costumes for both Joel and Ellie, and more than 60 accessibility options — one of the biggest being audio description. There's also a model viewer.
In the video, Niel Druckmann says: "More than two years ago, when we were finishing The Last of Us: Part II and we were working on those flashback scenes from the first game, we got excited with the idea of 'oh man, what if we made The Last of Us: Part I to look as good — if not better — than what we've done with The Last of Us: Part II?' [...] We felt like if we do that we could actually come even closer to our original vision of what the first game would have been has we not been constrained by technology."
Much of the deep dive focuses on gameplay changes, including a feature called motion matching, PS5 DualSense controller support with haptic feedback and adaptive triggers implemented, and the workbench animations taken from The Last of Us: Part II.
The remake will release for PS5 on 2nd September 2022. Pre-orders are available now.
Looks great. I'm currently deep into a grounded+ playthrough atm so won't be picking this up right away but damn, it looks like the the definitive way to play and experience this game for sure.
And all those who said it don't look any different or worse, just take the L. LOL
Sony must be panicking if they releasing this at this time of day.
Leaky bum time.
I'm not even getting this game, next time I think folk should keep their shirt on and don't jump to conclusions. This ain't Grove Street like Rockstar's mistake. It's Naughty Dog. It's clear there's big time improvements, that said I still think $70 is too much.
I love the nod at 9:56 to all the critics and doubters. Shame that they were forced to release this video out earlier from all the negativity thanks to leakers. First God of War's release date and then this.
Edit: Also, thank goodness you re-directed that other article to this one. Now everyone will see this update.
Looks great, definitely worth getting. If it's not for you, that's fine. But I see all the last of us 2 things being added, as promised. And the haptic feedback will be awesome.
Good to see some official content from the studio. It’s very impressive visually. The improvements to the gameplay seems like the focus was more in the finer details rather than adding new mechanics. I would like to play this at some point, perhaps after a discount. The price still seems a bit high.
Haha, well they definitely fast-tracked this video, but glad it's come out!
This definitely looks much better then the leak that came out. Can’t wait
I'm very impressed. Watching this video makes me think ND are about to raise the bar again.
We're gonna see and learn more about what the PS5 can really do with this remake. And I'm here for it.... When it's £35 or less
Not impressed. Definitely not $70 impressed.
Looks amazing!!! I will say for me, I really think Prone took TLOU gameplay to the next level, reworking level design might have taken too long, but that's what I personally wanted. Will definitely get this on sale and honestly, parts of it surpasses part 2. Can't wait to play as Joel again!
Looks neat, but still not worth 70 bucks. I'll be waiting for a price drop, not in a hurry to get it, plenty of PS5 games to catch up on and look forward to
Visually it looks stunning. Man I can't wait until devs move on from cross gen and remasters so the games can truly take advantage of PS5 hardware and truly shine in the graphics department. I remember when the PS3 was first released and the games barely looked any different from the PS2. And at the end of the gen we had stunning games like TLOU, GTA V and Far Cry 3 looked pretty good as well.
Sammy deleted his "WTF opinion article" on this issue and replaced it with this one. Interesting
Visually, looks like a big improvement over the Remaster. Especially in character model and the environment.
Improved AI will definitely make for more tense encounters on Grounded mode, looking forward to that. It’s a shame that it didn’t get the full gameplay treatment from TLoU: Part II however. That’s what I was really hoping for.
The dualsense usage looks great with the various guns and bow having different feels to them. We’ll see how well it’s done, hopefully more on the level of Returnal than, say, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.
The improved environmental destruction looks great as well.
Some great improvements overall, although I was hoping for even more.
@WCB Take the L for something coming out with less content than the original and paying almost double of what this is actually worth?
Well, this should clear things up. Looks awesome!
@get2sammyb fast tracked but evidently it they were planning to release this soon and had been working on it for awhile.
@spcspc I didn’t delete it, I redirected it. This was an evolving story and I think this is the conclusion of it.
That article was still getting a lot of traffic so I think it’s most useful for readers to see this rather than read about a situation that’s now changed.
It’s a great video and I think they’ve overall done a very good job, but I was expecting a little more from the combat encounters I must admit.
Well that didn't take long for a response.
I give them credit for the accessibility features...even though they could have just updated the Remaster with these features but yeah I don't think this is going to change anyone's mind. There just isn't enough here to warrant this remake to me but hey knock yourselves out people who want this. I just don't see it.
This didn't change my mind I was always looking forward to this.
@RedRiot193 dude there were and are plenty of people who said it's not that big an improvement in the graphics department and some even said it looks worse. That's what I'm talking about.
If you don't think it's worth the price because of less "content", don't buy it. I'm not getting it day one either.
Well it certainly presents better here. Game looks really good. Far as I can tell they incorporated a good bit of the TLOU 2 gameplay. And the animation rework is excellent. Should play smoother.
That said, it’s not a 70 dollar investment for me. I like it enough to pay 45 though. So once it drops down to that point I’ll pick it up physically.
This is clearly a case of damage control though. This feels like a deep dive presentation for a state of play. But they had to drop it early to combat that leaked video.
Good thing they did. I was completely turned off on the game by that leak. But this has restored my faith in the project.
Me too but looking at how they did this now I understand why they couldn’t go full force on the gameplay enhancements.
The level designs and sandboxes are basically identical to the PS3 original. It’s possible TLOU 2 gameplay would have broken the game’s difficulty curve without significantly rebuilding the level geometry.
That was an issue that plagued The Twin Snakes, the MGS remake on GameCube. They basically added all of MGS2’s gameplay enhancements to the first game. But they didn’t redesign the level layouts, geometry mesh, or bosses to compensate for it. It ended up neutering the game from a difficulty standpoint.
ND may have been trying to avoid that problem.
He was talking about the visual fidelity.
It’s a quantum leap over the PS4 version purely based on visuals.
That said, it’s not worth $70. I’ll wait for it to get 40 or 45 and pick it up.
@WCB I like how you put content in quotation marks even though I stated a fact. MP is missing which was a big component and very popular with the community. People even wanted it to return with part 2 but instead it is being sperated as some games of service crap.
As for graphics it's easy to see improvements and sometimes it's hard to see. Some of the shots in this very trailer I thought had more atmosphere in the original. Like the underground train area. It's hit or miss in some parts to me.
If they added some prequel dlc of joels journey to boston that could have been cool. I would have been down for that.
I guess this settles it then. Its basically just a graphical remaster. I don't think it's worthy of being called a remake. No gameplay changes whatsoever.
Yeah I think you’re right. Redesigning the layout of the areas to accomodate more advanced controls from Part II is perhaps expecting too much.
It would’ve been awesome though.
@OrtadragoonX To me it's missing some of the atmosphere from the original. And at times too clean.
@get2sammyb They've gone beyond what I thought they would do.
But then I never expected the combat mechanics to change much beyong some polish and ai improvements.
Would've payed a reasonable upgrade fee when I get a ps5 but I definitely won't be buying the game again when I can play the perfectly fine PS4 remaster
Why have games gone down the route of movies where they slap a filter over everything? Everything looks darker and blue-y in this remake. Side by side comparisons show a big change in lighting and art direction. Bill's Town had this wonderful summer evening colour palette to it and now its completely missing. Backdrops look dim. I'll stick to the remaster until this is drastically reduced. Would rather they patched the PS4 version to unlock the framerate on resolution mode and patched Part 2 to have haptics and triggers. What a let down.
I can't see this doing well sales-wise which makes me afraid any potential first party remakes will be canned ahem Bloodborne.
Hmm. I did prefer the gameplay to the irritating story when I played it a couple years ago for the first time but I was hoping for more of an improvement to get away from PS3 ‘room filled with boxes’ design. Like keep the same story beats but widen the environments to be a bit more explorable and fluid.
@RedRiot193 yes I did put content in quotes because I'm sick of how some use it as a basis for arguing if a game is worth it or not. For me it's become a negative buzzword, mostly due to all the "it's all about content" "gotta keep putting content out" mantra that folks use.
But we've known Factions 2 is its own thing for sometime now so I couldn't care less about there being no multiplayer included. And I honestly don't care about the whole price argument either which is why I never said anything about it in my first post. You either think a game is worth the rrp or you don't.
Personally i think it looks fantastic. Well done ND. Yes an upgrade fee (a la legacy of thieves collection) to go from the PS4 remaster to the PS5 version would have been a better approach, but it looks like a lot of work has gone into this.
I think the internet as a whole needs to be less reactive to internet leaks. I also think people need to remember that there are people who have worked hard on these games who deserve none of the flack received. As a studio, ND has had more hate than any other in recent memory and its completely unjustified.
If people dont feel this is worth 70 dollars/euros/gbp thats their perogative. Its their money. So wait for a price cut. Its what i will probably do. But i can fully recognise and appreciate the hard work thats gone into this. It looks great. Well done all involved.
Still don't see why it's $70?! Even the greedy Activision didn't charge full price (I mean $60 not the BS $70) for the Remastered versions of MW1 and 2 that received similar treatment as TLOU Part 1!
Just reading the description of improvements because I personally would like to re-experience this going in as blind as one can but, yeah, I'm pretty excited for this.
A little bummed it's not Tlou2 mechanics but as others have pointed out, that makes sense given the work it would have taken to redesign levels.
Still don't love the $70 price tag but what isn't overpriced right now?
Looks stunning. I am really looking forward to it. I honestly do not know why it's getting so much hate if its just the price tag that's the hang up! Move on it will be on sale come Xmas.
@NB-DanTE yeah I don't like Activision but the spyro & crash trilogy's that were 3 games completely remade from the ground up were very generously priced
Lmfao this video literally confirms what we all saw. No real game play or core design rebuilds. Exact same game play control and level design. It's literally Just visual upgrades. In some instances not Even significantly. AI is. Cute. But Let's Be real without t tlou2 game play elements it's extremely limited.
Far cry from what druckmen and Jeff suggested during that games show....
But hey, at Least theres some ulockable cosmetic nonsense and feeling Joel "touch the giraffe" .... Lmfao
70 dollars is a joke. This video views like a really desperate attempt at justification for the release and its price by elevating and listing off even the most mundane of changes, but slipping in phrases like:
"remaining faithful to the original"
" making better but not changing"
Replacing things thrown around before during and after the games show stating:
"rebuilt from the ground up"
Bringing over tlou2 game play elements"
This should have been 40 bucks max with an upgrade path for those that bought the remaster. As that apparently wasn't definitive enough a way to play before..... This is just sad to see
@WCB You're sick of people telling the truth? If something has less content than originally and people call it out. How is that a negative buzzword? If anything it's helping other people be aware. Most people aren't stupid and will definitley call out such things.That logic of yours doesn't make any sense to me.
I would have appreciated way less dev talk and way more raw, uninterrupted gameplay.
@OrtadragoonX You know quantum leap is a real small distance, right?
@RedRiot193 LOL go argue with someone who cares mate. You have obviously been triggered and creating drama over stuff I never said. Have a good day.
Hey, it’s damage control time.
All this video does is confirming that, at full next gen price, it is just a gorgeous cash grab. I was waiting to see how the combat was going to evolve because I loved it in part 2 but meh.
Last of Us is a game that gives you an amazing first playthrough but after that you realize how bad the pacing is on NG+. When it will come to ps+ extra I might give it a try but that’s about it.
The video reeks of desperation. Talking heads trying to rationalize why cleaner folds in fabric justifies a $70 price tag. What a waste of time and energy.
The visual upgrade seems to be the effect of the new art direction. If this was on PC. I would think that the PS4 version is running on low to medium settings, while the remake is set on high to ultra.
They also focus more on cutscenes and darker environments. Around the 9:14 - 9:17 mark. The gameplay look similar to the leak. First time players will have a great time though. I'll probably pick this up on PC when it goes $20 below.
Still not worth £70 to me.
What a waste of time and resources.
The Last of Us Part 2 is 40 bucks right now in the store. That game should have gotten a resolution/framerate boost for the PS5 and released together with The Last of Us Part 1 "Remake" for 80 dollars and 45 dollars standalone for Part 1.
Honestly it shouldn't be more than 40 but I'm trying to compromise.
@WCB uh okay? I'm somehow triggered yet I'm not creating drama over "buzzwords". Good luck to you then.
NOT a remake. RE-remaster for $70 plus tax. Should have been a 10$ upgrade like Uncharted.
I haven't watched the deep dive yet, but I will comment that the re-directing of the article deleting any previous comments is a bit disappointing as I got a response that I now can't read because they are all gone.
Cool. Still not worth $70. And when you call them out on this you get labeled a hater and told "just dont buy it". That's not the issue. We should call out scummy business practiced. Since JIm Ryan took over, Sony has become more and more greedy. When EA does it, they get called out, but we're supposed to give Sony a pass?
I've yet to see anywhere if Left Behind will be incorporated into the main game. It would be a missed opportunity not to
If you haven't played it before then clearly this is the version to play but this ain't worth £70 to those who own the previous versions. This isn't a remake its a remaster with a few bells and whistles added, compare this to Demons Souls and its pretty lackluster as remakes go.
The Last of Us, and this game in particular, seems to bring out the worst in some people. Haters gonna hate, I guess. My pre-order stands and I can't wait. Hopefully the title (with Part 1 added) means there will be a Part 3 (the main reason why I bought a PS5).
If only people would finally learn not to overreact or jump to conclusions anymore. But who am I kidding? Some people never learn.
Glad they finally showed why it's clearly not a remaster (though I agree with others, there's no excuse for the price).
Yes it is. But it’s a commonly used idiom. So that’s what I go with.
It’s dramatically improved visually.
But like I said, it’s not enough to warrant a 70 dollar purchase. They should have priced it at 40.
Yeah that would have been the way to go. A native PS5 port of TLOU2 (wouldn’t have been hardly any work at all; just up the resolution and add DualSense support with the SDK features to enable super fast loading) with this remake.
Would have been a good sale.
That’s true. The original release went for a neo-Western sort of look to it’s art style. It had much of the same atmosphere as a 1980s Western film which fit the story really well.
The asset quality improvements are no joke though. This release mostly matches TLOU2’s materials quality. It’s very well done. The character models are also significantly more detailed.
Jesus Naughty Dog is untouchable. It looks incredible. Definitely worth 70 bucks. I didn't even know it includes the Left Behind DLC. Plus the Work Bench animations. I was such a sucka for that in Part 2. I'm glad they bothered to bring that also in Part 1.
Now after watching the video, I'm not very impressed. Sure, it looks great for the most part, but my main problem with the first one was the gameplay. I loved the story and the characters, but wasn't a big fan of the gameplay, which is why I didn't love the game as much as the masses.
In the end, I still feel like we were lied to by what was said on the PlayStation Blog and such. Maybe I'm wrong, but my reaction from what they showed is that it's not really improved in the one area it needed to be improved upon the most, and that would be the gameplay. I was really psyched for this because they gave the impression it would be similar to Part II gameplay wise with the great story of the first one, but it's hard to say that an extensive remaster is worth $70.
Amazing how things change in a matter of hours. It was all doom and gloom earlier, but now it's all rosy even though what they showed confirms the issues from before. Yes, it is impressive what they did tech wise, but the gameplay is what probably 95% of people were hoping for, especially if you were ready and willing to drop $70 on this after it was announced.
I hate the leaking culture in gaming its click bait and can destroy games with misinformation
They should have come out with this earlier but I've still seen nothing to justify it being a $70 game, it's still basically just a remaster with a few gameplay enhancements and nicer graphics, yet doesn't overall look a substantially different game to the PS4 game. All the environments still look like one to one recreations so I don't think the AI improvements will have a dramatic impact on the overall game.
If you're excited for this then great, or indeed new to the game then this will definitely be they way to play it and I hope you enjoy it but it's definitely not for me, certainly not at that price anyway when I already own it
You can be sceptical and not impressed or be fine with it. However certain sites including this one already sent toxic dingos to ‘bite the devs in the…and hard’ as in previous article. 😳. Should be ashamed.
Be nice people.
As I expected, such a waste of talent from a top studio. This is alright for PC players and new players.
People say, we’ll they needed something to work on and took this project. It blows my mind that one of the top tier studios doesn’t have another project lined up with finishing up the last 40% of a current project. How can you not have something new prepared? Such a waste of talent and a waste for us who buy almost every single Sony exclusive. I’ve played this game multiple times through multiple generations, it’s so aggravating. Well, you don’t like it don’t buy it! Well I don’t like this crap because I want to play new games from Sony first party studios.
@OrtadragoonX I hope there's a filter selection like in the original. If not then the pc version can fix it with mods.
Looks amazing — Day 1 for me.
If you aren't seeing much of an improvement visually, maybe don't watch this video on your cell phone or a 1080p computer monitor. Watch it on a 4k display.
Also...SONY's fault for always letting it get it to this point. Why wait & wait & wait to show your hand and open a window for leaks to come out? At least TELL US something is something is on the way. But, as always, Sony is gonna Sony ...
At least Sony have confirmed how poor the remaster is and what we saw in the leak was real. What a waste of time and resources and what a kick in the teeth to try and charge $70 for this. What a joke
Good comment pointing out the PC version giving perspective on this controversial enterprise.
However it’s officially known they have a new IP coming and also the admittedly late MP game from TLOU universe.
It still doesn't really look all that rebuilt in the gameplay department. Sure you have the backpack and workbench features from TLOU 2, but you don't have the prone feature, you don't have the dodge feature, there aren't any new features, and the gunplay still looks exactly the same from the TLOU Remastered.
The tech looks vastly upgraded, the haptic feedback is a nice touch, 3D audio is very cool, and the accessibility options are great for those that need them. The destruction looks very good, but unless whole parts of levels change in accordance with that destruction, what use is it other than eye candy?
This is not worth 70 bucks as far as remakes go. Not by a long shot. I'm not paying anywhere close to that. That's a joke.
Just watched the video and my view hasn’t changed. The main update is the graphics yet these are one of the things that least needed updating, they are entirely good enough on the PS4 remaster at dynamic 4K/60fps.
It’s a broken idea from its initial concept.
I recently replayed TLOU. At no point did I think “oh these graphics are awful it needs another remaster” what I did think was the gameplay was a bit dated. This is the part that has changed the least in this remake.
Yes they have improved some elements, the AI of allies is appreciated, hopefully they won’t run out in front of enemies but still be unseen, but it’s hardly a reason to remake the whole game. Features like 3D audio, haptics and better animation are also great but again no reason to remake a whole game. Accessibility options are always good no complaints there. Other additions like permadeath modes, speedrun modes, collectibles, model viewers seem to be clutching at straws.
Most importantly it sets a dangerous precedent, should R* completely remake GTAV instead of making GTA6? How about Bioshock Infinite, Guacamelee! or AC: Black Flag? - these all released in 2013 along with TLOU btw.
This will be a good release for the PC market, TLOU2 will follow soon after, and to increase the series fan base. I’m sure it will have a market and likely sell well.
But it sets a dangerous precedent, and I will not support it, lest we start seeing more of these pointless remakes and less new games.
@get2sammyb How do we access the older article? It doesn’t appear to show up (when clicked on) in the news feed, was in the middle of some conversations.
@GreatAuk TLOU 2 already did get a free Ps5 upgrade.
@Goober1 That was a PS5 patch, what they want is a native PS5 version.
@themightyant its funny how different we see this.
Last of Us is by far my favourite game and I tried to replay it after finishing LOU2 and struggled with the gameplay. I agree the graphics weren't a problem though.
I'm more excited by this that I am GoWR and in theory could start commenting that it sets a dangerous precedent if studios like Santa Monica are cash grabbing by making sequel after sequel, but there are people who want it so thats great for them.
@StonyKL how are we so different?
So we agree on more than we disagree on.
The main thing we disagree on is you’re excited for this, whereas I think it’s a dangerous precedent for a future filled with remakes of 10 year old games.
@themightyant well said
Pfft, slightly better graphics, a few tacked on features and 3D audio. Naughty Dog won’t be getting £70 of my hard earned money….they’ll be getting £80. Deluxe Version Baybeee
@naruball A remaster isn't just when they do the bare minimum and increase the resolution and frame rate. A remaster is when they take the original game and increase the quality of the product.
A remake is when they build everything completely from scratch.
Part 1 is still the former, not the latter. If you want to be generous, you can call it an enhanced remaster.
@GreatAuk just to let you know that part II has had a 60fps patch for ps5. No 4k though, res is at 1440p.
So basicly the leaks were true. Graphics update, but no gameplay update. Thanks ND for saving me 70.
I still don’t see why this needs to exist. The improvements are nice but the game was fine as it was. It didn’t need to be remade.
So same game with better graphics and rumble function? No thanks.Their "definitive" version is not much different from the original. They should have used resources on a new title instead.
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Still looks almost identical to the already released remastered one. Hard pass
This games seems half way between a remake and remaster. Not fully one nor the other. If you've never played the game it will be worth it, if you're a major fan it will be worth it.
A part of me suspects its been remade to tie with the upcoming TV show and that Part 1 and Part 2 are in the process of being ported to PC in the near future and Part 1 needed a refresh prior to being ported.
Not buying this at $70.
It's all very pretty and what have you, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the same story beats, etc. For £70 I'd rather be playing something new, because the truth is I've played TLoU enough to know that I will blast through it in no time at all, barely appreciating the upgrades. £20-ish for me, maybe.
And that's a compliment to the original game, by the way, which looked great on PS3, and amazing on PS4, and still holds up IMO.
Still nowhere near enough of an upgrade. Absolute cash grab please don't buy this unless you guys want tlou2 remade next year.
I hope people crying about £70 never bought gta 5 or Skyrim more than once. And don't forget the gta trilogy, people paid 60 bucks for that...
Just wait for a price drop, like I do with 99% of games, new or old.
@spcspc We both called this, jumping to conclusions on unverified footage is not a balanced approach.
People will decide if they are up for this or not of course, but at least they can do this and have an informed conversation based on facts rather than conjecture.
Personally I was always going to get this, the definitive version of one of my fave games ever, it was a slam dunk, but I respect that people who have already played the game and are feeling the pinch will not be so keen. I can spend more than this on one round of take away meals, so its worth to me.
Meh, I'm not super happy about the price but I'm getting it anyway. One of the best games ever and I haven't played it since PS3.
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I LOVE watching people on the Internet getting VEX
I completely agree with you.
A mature take is that anyone not familiar with the games should play them and make up their own minds and not listen to the bleating of net children. Both of these titles were rated GOTY by their industry peers in recognition of what they did and how they did, and are some of the best narratives I've experienced in games. Sure, its a little challenging, but if you are that much of kid go and play fairy tale stories instead.
People still bleating their hate at this need to get a life..
@Col_McCafferty Or the other option is to rent it, which is what I’m planning to do. I have no intention of buying this at all when I own the remaster but I wouldn’t mind playing through this again before playing Part II for the first time.
The MSRP is $70 but it’ll be on sale for $30-$50 within the first 6 months after release and less than that thereafter.
I’m slightly more convinced now (this is why communication is so important) but I’m still going to wait for a price drop 🙂
I will wait for the Digital Foundry PS3,PS4 and PS5 comparisons and a discount/sale for a physical copy.
Haha what a load of hastily produced, fluffy PR nonsense and y’all ate that up like birthday cake.
I was never planning on buying this, but the video just confirmed I have no need for it. The graphics look gorgeous and I like the idea of the controller haptics, but neither of those things are good enough for me to rebuy the game. Honestly, the absolute best art of this, to me, is the game assist features they added. I don’t need any of them, but there are plenty of people out there who do who can now enjoy this game thanks to those features. This was never meant for to begin with, but for all those who are excited for it, enjoy!
Can’t wait for The Last of Us Part 1 Remastered where they add the dodge and prone mechanic from Part 2 and charge $70 for it as well.
I'll get it eventually, but I'm the same as the others on here, looks great and sounds like it's a step forward for the game, but I couldn't warrant the cost. I'll wait until it's dropped to a much more reasonable price. And by the sounds of it, we might not need to wait for too long, if we all hold out and don't buy it, it will drop like a fly.
Naughty Dog wins. End of story.
@-Sigma- well this ain't nintendo. It will be heavily discounted at some point.
this looks much much better. My initial reaction to the leak was very bad. Glad they did this
@pyrrhic_victory - 100%. It has been confirmed officially on multiple occasions. Clips we’re shown in the initial announcement video as well.
From the purchase page in the PlayStation Store:
“Includes the complete The Last of Us single-player story and celebrated prequel chapter, Left Behind, which explores the events that changed the lives of Ellie and her best friend Riley forever.”
@NojahZA yep they win the award of another tarnished video game developer.
@Titntin in the same paragraph you said make up your own mind and to listen to the critics that awarded it game of the year.
Ok so I'm dumb; What is the audio description stuff for? In my head it'd be for bind folks but that doesn't jive with 'video games'.. Confusing to me.
Game looks fine; better than PS4 for sure. Doesn't this one have breaking weapons? If so that's a no go for me. I have the PS3 game but my PS3 isn't hooked up and I played all of 10 minutes of this back in the day.
@TheArt I don’t think anyone implied it was a Grove Street situation. Ppl are mad it’s basically a reskin with some dual sense features added in and with a $70 price tag. No real gameplay improvements
@colt3211 what Last of Us 2 things are being added?
@xjulianvel I know it is included. I'm asking if it is integrated into the game. In the previous versions, you have to access it from the main menu. With this being a complete remake, I would hope they take the opportunity to incorporate this dlc chapter and weave it seamlessly into the story.
I'm very confused by the sudden change in mood vs the earlier article. People, even people that were supportive of this remaster, were questioning it based on the leaked footage. No matter what you think of the game, this video confirmed that earlier leaked footage was genuine. What it showed, is what the game is. How has the opinion on that changed simply due the source being official promo video?
And in words and video they confirmed no matter how much work went into asset updates, this is just a visual upgrade. New textures, animations, etc. A remaster. Plus some bonus modes and features, mostly modder's work. For some that love the game so much that paying more than original price for a game that still has PS3 gameplay and level design it will be fine, but for everyone else, it's $70 to upgrade a decent looking game's graphics to "ultra" essentially, and it's offensive.
The bigger story, here, though, I think is Push. To an extent, I understand it's a flaw of the article system, and non-controversial articles get it at times. But the look here is pretty bad. A critical article, which was excellent, and all discussions on it were disappeared and moved to point to this article which is pretty much a positive-spin press release regurgitation for Sony's marketing copy, on the same day Sony basically ads Push Square marketing into one of their games (Dreams.)
Regardless of intent, from no angle does it not look like Push is removing their own criticism to step in line with the hand that feeds them. There's no valid excuse on that. You guys aren't new at this, you know how SEO works. You know exactly what "redirecting" an article does. You were brave enough to be critical, and you should be brave enough to stand by that criticism rather than shoving it down the memory hole as soon as marketing copy arrives for a course correction.
The original, critical, article should stand with an "update" lead. Nothing in that article was based on assumptions made untrue by this video. It should not be subsumed by marketing and a positive spin..
@themightyant Unfortunately, this will make money. The marketing is there, and the masses really don't understand. I think we've now set up the next 10-15 year arc in gaming loaded with full price visual updates of recent games. And largely it will end getting trilogies for one price in remastered sets, and replace it with selling every game stand alone at higher-than-full-price a second time for any popular, or niche-popular title. Single player "AAA" gaming is going to be taking a nap for a little while after the last wave of releases comes out.
Look at how many are singing it's praises? The plague in gaming for 20 years has been the mentality that graphics=quality and the main purpose of a new game is to be a better tech demo, and the better tech demo is naturally the better game. This is the final phase of that. It's truly a PS3 game with a better tech demo applied over it, and too many people are willing to throw money at their screen believe that's what a new game is all about.
This is one of several catalysts, but I don't think gaming is going to be a very good place for the next decade or so. It's the worst parts of Disney's business practices that will now become the entire industry.
It will also serve to help keep the Nintendo model going that games are one fixed price forever and an assault on the concept of BC. Guaranteed, the learned lesson here is now that games do not need to devalue, just keep releasing them with updated visuals, whether major or minor, and keep jacking the price up to maintain games as "new releases" at full price, all the time. Snow White can be whatever the current home video price is until the end of time.
It will sell well because pretty sure there are a lot of newer PS users who've never played it. Or those who played the original partially (due to moving on to other games and not returning to it or whatever).
Thanks Sony for giving us PS5 owners a PS3 game to play.
Now since it's been over a year since you released a PS5 game, how much linger do we have to wait?
Looks great, and you can definitely see a lot of effort went into this remake. Personally though, it's just hard to justify paying full price for The Last of Us when I've already played through it numerous times on both PS3 and PS4, and I have a growing backlog of other games to play. Will pick it up down the line when it's eventually on sale.
@NEStalgia this is exactly the sentiment I and many others share.
Those singing praise and defending anything and everything Sony related seem to overlook the bigger picture here. A trend that is increasing and a future for gaming that is motivated only by long term monetization off recycled content and the withering of having to bring something new, fresh, creative to the table. The death of games as the passionate end product of a creative artistic collaboration, in favor of the endless revenue growth model.
This is about more than your blind allegiance to a brand, or cheerleading the corporation that makes your website, blog, or vlog relevant. It's about an industry diminishing your expectations to such a place in which you are even more so just a source of revenue extraction than you already are without having to put as much effort into that extraction.
This confirms it. They remastered a remaster of a PS3 game less than 10 years old that still holds up today AND removed the multiplayer (very underrated) and are charging $70
You can do what you want with your money, but trying to justify this as a Remake sets a very dangerous precedent.
So no prone then?
That makes me a sad panda…
@KundaliniRising333 @NEStalgia I totally agree.
While may (or may not be) a "cash grab", sure it is a case of "playing it safe". I don't doubt that this remaster/remake has some effort in it...but this is not a new creative project.
To create something new and exciting would take more time and resources and would be more risky. I think one of the potential risks in this trend is the loss of creativity.
As a business, they will get more income for less investment. And many others big publishers, I assume, will go down the same path.
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"In the same paragraph you said make up your own mind and to listen to the critics that awarded it game of the year."
Then I definitely covered all bases! 😂
Yeah I think I was trying, rather poorly I'll admit, to suggest that such accolades offer an opposing viewpoint to the equally valid critics. It was trying to support the idea that its worth reaching your own conclusions, but I'll concede it doesnt communicate that idea well...
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@Titntin I'll give you major credit for the contrition. 99% of people would just double down and move the goal post. Good on you for having character, sincerely.
@Titntin Unfortunately this will not be the only time we will need to have this discussion.
Lots of criticism on here from regular users, maybe it's valid in this particular case or maybe it isn't, but would be nice to see an equivalent amount of praise for all the hard work that goes into running this place and pumping the articles out that we all enjoy for free. Or maybe just the benefit of the doubt. Or are we all just lining up to tear things down now?
That said, TLOU is overrated and the developers should all be fired yesterday.
@kyleforrester87 i agree that Push deserves credit for all the hard work they do, but disappearing a critical article down the memory hole is bad journalism. It's a real bad look and they deserve the scorn.
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@Ambassador_Kong @KundaliniRising333 What exactly is the problem here? Our approach has been to redirect past articles concerning the topic into this one because it essentially answers the question those articles posed. The Reaction piece titled "WTF Is Going on with The Last of Us PS5?" has its question answered with this very article as Sony has published an official look.
This has always been our approach. Sony hasn't been in contact to tell us to take it down or anything ridiculous. Constructive criticism is welcomed, but think about how there are actual human beings behind these accounts, like me, Sammy, Robert, and Stephen.
@Ambassador_Kong PS does that all the time as stories progress, I appreciate this one is probably more controversial than the rest but at the same time we're talking about a videogame not Watergate so let's keep some perspective. We all saw what was said, and there will be plenty of chances to discuss the good and bad of this game over the coming weeks and months!
@LiamCroft Hahaha Robert. Human. Yeah, right.
Seems like there's been some concern about the way articles were redirected in this case. I wanted to elaborate on the thought process here.
This was obviously an evolving story where the game leaked and I wrote a Reaction explaining that Naughty Dog should respond. We couldn't have predicted what would happen next, but as it happens Naughty Dog did respond.
As a result, I redirected those previous articles into this one, as I felt it made the discussion moot. There were a lot of people viewing that Reaction piece, many of whom may not have seen the new trailer yet, and thus it was ultimately outdated information.
However, it seems some of you want to still view that article, so just to confirm you still can through here: https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/07/reaction-wtf-is-going-on-with-the-last-of-us-ps5?noredirect=true
The article will still redirect by default, but if you add '?noredirect=true' to the end of any redirected article, you'll be able to view the original version.
Hopefully this helps out and clarifies the situation.
Any further questions please feel free to use the contact form.
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@LiamCroft @get2sammyb I'm glad to see you addressing the content issue. Though that only half addresses it either for this article or future articles if you have to know the special link to disable the redirect to find content that was published as part of the site, so people that were not there for the original story will still never see it or the developments in the evolving story from the publication's editorial perspective.
Conventional news outlets, instead of burying an updated or obsoleted article, include the original article below the updated one as a footnote to maintain the integrity of the publication and it's consistent history through "evolving" stories.
This may be an issue for the top brass of Anthony or Damien, but, alternately, since you have a link to access it without the redirect, and to preserve the comments of the original piece which is an issue conventional media doesn't always have to consider, I'd recommend (very highly) including the links to the original articles like you did in this comment post as a part of any "updated" version of a story with a redirect so readers, including ones that come to an updated article such as this one after the original do not experience a time warp with a lack of the history and timeline of the evolving story on this site. Readers don't expect that as they scroll through the headlines that they're missing whole articles, and the original article escapes search engines. Obviously that would be a site IT proposition to automatically embed the "noredirect" links to previous iterations of redirected articles as part of each new redirected article, to make clear and visible the whole site history on a particular evolving story with a redirect chain. But it would help maintain integrity, and value of the site. You all put effort into these articles, and it's that content that drives readership. They shouldn't just vanish unless you already know where to find them.
This is especially valuable when the "redirected" piece is an op-ed, and not just a reported news beat. More value for readers, more transparency and avoids the appearance of impropriety for the site, and no lost work for the authors. It's a win-win-win for all, assuming there was never salacious intent behind such redirects.
I think I'm in the 'probably not worth £70' camp, but the usual outlets are already applying discounts in the UK, the lowest I've seen being ShopTo at £59 - which feels closer to a 'correct' price now I've watched the video.
I hear what you are saying, yet at the same time you are rapidly deleting comments that question the intent and objectivity behind push Square redirecting an article to another in which the tone has completely changed back to. Marketing for Sony and ND.
Neither mine nor Ambassador_Kong's comments were hurtful or "unconstructive" yet you deleted these comments yet felt them constructive enough to post long responses trying to clarify your decision making.
We all know and have see you before add updates to existing articles. You choosing to completely redirect all traffic from that article to another one without the commentary and user comments from the previous is certainly an action worth scrutiny.
Especially considering the leaked game play is absolutely representative of the game play we ultimately see in this official pr video from ND.
As I said before the comment was deleted, credibility was a concern, and you deleting our comments raising these concerns certainly is suggestive in itself. Can you objectively see our point of view on how it looks?
It would be like you burying this article as well and redirecting all traffic to your new promo video with 30 things about this remaster 2.0. As that is essentially an extended marketing video for the game.
@KundaliniRising333 @NEStalgia I hear what you're saying and the feedback is duly noted. There may be a better, more elegant solution for something like this in the future — will have to think/look into it a bit more.
Obviously there was no ill intent here, it was about bringing people to the most up-to-date information possible, but I'm sure there's a solution that finds the best of both worlds.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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I think this looks awesome and I look forward to this being my first TLoU experience. Extra cool that it won't have all those awful multiplayer trophies that kept me from playing the original releases. Good riddance. That being said, I'll wait for a sale.
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Just dont buy the game
@LiamCroft @get2sammyb There is a very simple solution. Update the article, but keep the original after the new text. It's a journalistic standard for a reason. Removing my comment as "unconstructive" makes zero sense because I think my comment was entirely relevant.
I also don't know or care what you've done in the past. Journalists don't disappear articles. They update their articles to show changes in the story while retaining their original text. It shows you have the integrity to admit your mistakes.
I don't think any of you guys are shills. I like this site and I enjoy your reporting, but I don't like the way this situation was handled. Friends don't always have to agree to be friends. If I had no respect for you. I wouldn't have said anything.
@kyleforrester87 Journalism is journalism regardless of the topic. I agree that this issue is nowhere near as important as Global Warming. I read your comments quite often and find you to be insightful and intelligent. Please believe me when I say I'm not trolling. I comment because I care about this site and the writers.
@pyrrhic_victory - Ah! My understanding is that it’s still a standalone episode and isn’t folded into the main game. I was hoping for the latter myself.
@xjulianvel Yeah, I think it's a missed opportunity to not make the experience more seamless. It's not like they'd have to come up with anything new
Straight to Extra/Premium or it's simply a sad cash grab. Or at least cut the price in half...Half game (no mp), half price
Now I'll take it. Even for 70.
No reason to replay old versions.
Finally someone managed to write an effective piece about the whole situation. Reader's feature spraying truth bullets right there.
@NEStalgia this isn't the same as the leaked footage though. Even the person who leaked admitted that it wasn't at the quality of final product due to their capture method. Yes, gameplay elements that many assumed would be added are absent from both, as they simply aren't in the game unfortunately, but it seems like people are just as critical of that as they were prior. We're just seeing a more complete picture of the other improvements with this promotional release.
But yeah the leaked footage did not represent the game in terms of visual fidelity, nor did it give a complete picture of all the additions. Surely you can concede that it's fairer to judge a game on official footage, rather than a few short, fuzzy videos.
Also don't see the harm in the redirect, but that's just me. I feel like you and I have been having an extension of the same conversation over like 5 articles. Discourse doesn't end because an article becomes inaccessible. And the leaked footage wasn't really genuine. This is. It really should take priority. Still plenty to criticize even watching official videos.
@Would_you_kindly Yeah yeah we know you find it to expensive go cry me a river Jezus some people really bitch about everything. You dont want it dont buy problem solved. As a Playstation site the amount of hate that comes from the users here is baffling.
@sword_9mm You answered your own question and its quite a weird question its the same like asking why there is subtitles for the deaf.
@Flaming_Kaiser I already said I'm not going to buy it lol what is it about my comment in particular that made you so butthurt 😂
Skyrim complete with bug rereleased how many times. 🤪
Did I? So there are blind folks just sitting around listening to folks playing video games cause they certainly aren't playing them themselves.
I don't really care either way; just strikes me as odd.
This only proved it's a cash grab.
@zupertramp The footage was genuine though. This shows exactly what that did. I doubt many people that are the kind if people that comment on this sort of thing thought capture method white balance issue etc is exactly how the game renders, but it showed what the game actually is, and more importantly what it isn't, with accuracy.
I'm not sure at all how you can arrive at the conclusion the leak wasn't genuine or the same as this any more than a camera pointed at an off angle screen on the E3 floor is genuine but obviously doesn't reflect what shows on your own screen.... But showing perfect fidelity wasn't the nature of purpose of the leak, showing the gameplay was, and the official video verified its authenticity. Was anybody looking at that to see pixel level accuracy in rendering quality?
@Ambassador_Kong I do know you’re not trolling, that word is thrown around way too much.
@get2sammyb Indeed. Looks like no combat mechanics from part 2. Which may be for the best as it could have unbalanced the gameplay similar to MGS: Twin Snakes as I mentioned.
@NEStalgia it's an incomplete picture of the final product. to dismiss that as nothing seems a bit bizarre. the leaked vids reflect very little of the actual final game. they are a couple minute vids of shoddily captured gameplay footage with absolutely no context. I don't understand how that isn't relevant. Simply put: no one is doing themselves any favors, in regards to making an informed decision, by judging a game off a few minutes of quality-compromised, compressed YouTube footage on a 5"-6" screen with no info.
And yet you literally had people in the comments of the leaks saying it doesn't even look that good or it was barely any different. Like bro, I watched Captain Marvel off a cam rip and it looked atrocious but I'm guessing in all actuality it looks pretty much the same as every Marvel movie.
Not saying to put blind trust in all promotional material either but to write a game off on the leaked footage alone is straight silly.
@NEStalgia and I gotta be honest, I don't know what the propose of the leak was. am I supposed to believe ND were never going to show anything until release?
Sorry about double post btw. Afterthought.
@zupertramp But the only thing one can't do with the leak is determine the actual quality of the visual upgrades. But the people that are displeased aren't displeased by the visual quality, and the leak showing compromised visual quality isn't the problem most took issue with. We always knew it was principly just a visual update. The significance of the leak wasn't a demonstration of graphics, it was a demonstration of the first look at gameplay where ND has been radio silent beyond making hyperbolic claims of modernized gameplay which a lot of fans optimistically believed meant tlou2 gameplay. Many didn't, and yes that's kind of on the fans for wishful thinking more than ND, but regardless the leak showed finally what the secret gameplay is, and it's really still the old gameplay. ND scrambled to release this to damage control the leak (why were they hiding gameplay a month before release? We can guess...) But ultimately focuses on visuals, and you yourself are highlighting the difference in the leak vs this as visual..... But the problem is the uproar of the leak was over gameplay, not visuals, and the official video does confirm that the leak was a genuine display of that gameplay
Now, much as I am against this whole POS sixty nine US dollar, ninety nine cent port, ND never said it was tlou2 gameplay, fans let their imagination run wild, people never should have thought that's what they were getting, and when some of us were cynical about what the game is we were shouted down and told we haven't seen it yet, even though it seemed obvious, and ultimately we were right. But nd also used leading language and then made sure to never actually show gameplay while knowing what perception was among fans, do they're not absolved of their role in this. If this leak never happened, when were they going to show it, launch day when the preorders charged? The patented CDPR publishing method 😂
You’re basically the person this remake is made for.
@NEStalgia idk, feel like there are several things you can't truly discern from the leak. Expanded accessibility options? Nope. Haptic feedback? Nope. Improved enemy and buddy AI? Also no. Real time cutscenes? Didn't seem to show that either.
The leak shortchanged the amount of work that went into this and almost purposely downplayed the vast improvements made by virtue of it releasing with no explanation of anything else the game might have going for it that wouldn't be evidenced in some selective snippets of gameplay.
Now I was solidly one who thought "upgraded gameplay mechanics" meant Joel going prone and dodging and such. I was wrong and despite their somewhat leading phrasing I feel like that's more on me; I assumed. So I'm disappointed but was that the only selling point for me? Absolutely not. It was just one more cool thing in what I see as a really cool remaster/remake.
And I'm gonna disagree that some aren't displeased because of what's being perceived as a lack of visual improvement. I can cite both comments from this site and Twitter saying there's no difference in visual quality (or so little a difference that it's negligible) and that's including the first video ND released of mostly cutscenes. And the leak just went on to confirm what some already wanted to believe.
And that's some of the issue I'm having here, if you could even call it that. I just think this leak served as confirmation bias to those who already wanted to hate this.
@zupertramp The discussion around "but it took a lot of work" is misguided unless one is paid by the company. The question consumers should be asking (and to their credit, most seem to be) it's what value is added and if that value is equivalent to the asking price. The features listed, haptic feedback, accessibility options, speed run modes m these are mods and patches at worst, dlc at best. These aren't tent poles that warrant releasing something as a brand new game priced the same as Xenoblade 3, star field, FFXVI. These are $0-10 addons.
Sure they spent some time rebuilding identical levels. If that was a good use of time for a studio that's put out exactly 2 games since the PS3 is another question. But even if we take their most self promoting viewpoint, they still didn't create $70 of value.
Think of this, most of the industry is bent on live service where the expectation is years of improvements, add ons and whole new content for the same $70. And here comes ND (and atlus and falcon, and all their defenders.) Insisting that minor enhancements cost as much as full games? Imagine if the next "season" of a non f2p service game (cod excluded but that's probably changing to f2p anyway with warzone) cost $70? Or even 60. Every rebalancing, physics enhancement or graphics update cost full price?
I'll give nd credit that at least they added funky mode and made the game shinier before trying to pretend that their updated build and coat of paint has the same value as the latest new game with years of updates. Atlus and falcom didn't even bother going that far.
But as for the leak, from what I've seen, most of the conversation prior revolved around the lack of shown gameplay. And the leak provided that finally. Of course a "Shakey cam" for lack of better word footage isn't going to showcase the graphics, but we already had a feel for the graphics from the cutscenes. That being said, you honestly are counting in-engine cutscenes as a feature? 😆
For me fwiw, I don't actually like tlou, like, at all. But my interest in the topic is genuine in terms of Sony as a publisher and the industry trends in general. Today is fans of a game I don't care much about getting screwed. But that leads to, tomorrow, a game a do care about getting screwed. Like persona and ys8.........
One thing really getting my goat is that the industry has framed the conversation successfully. Each of these games on question this week exist due to platform changes. Tlou because they needed a new engine for a PC port and exploited console owners to absorb r&d. Persona because of the Xbox, switch, pc ports and are soaking ps owners because they can. Ys8... Ok that one really just makes no sense at all and feels like a charity request. Meanwhile ys9 is still broken and customers really should be entitled to an update for that poorly running hunk of junk especially on switch.
As for the leak, it showed what was missing from official releases, gameplay not being different. You might still be happy with the release despite finding out they're no prone play etc. But I think a lot of people that expected that aren't ok with that, and the leak is that informed them and it was confirmed here. It won't matter, it'll unfortunately sell to the masses, and that's why it falls on it's too make sure this kind of thing is a pr problem for them even if profitable, otherwise they will absolutely continue these antics.
@NEStalgia fwiw I don't like the price either. I've never defended the price other than to say everything is expensive at the moment so why not games. More resignation than a defense. But, even then this is the launch price which no one is required to pay if they don't want. That's why, in spite of really looking forward to this game, I still haven't pre-ordered. One, because pre-ordering is kinda dumb (unless it's a physical edition that could sell out) and two, I'm not sure if I want to pay $70 when I could probably just wait a few months and pay less. Much less I'm guessing.
But on the whole, the value added is greater imo than some people are giving it credit for. This is subjective though. I really love this game and maybe it's because I spent several months recently in a playthrough where my sole focus was capturing photos but this game really does look dated. There's this really large contingent of folks who won't even acknowledge that. Which I find odd. But for me, just the graphical upgrade means a lot. And in turn, is worth paying for.
And yes most of the disgruntled conversation is around mechanics, i.e. lack of prone and dodge. I almost took a screenshot of someone on Twitter saying they are going to sell their collectors edition when they get it because there's no prone. Lol. So yeah I get that's most of the criticism I'm just pointing out it's not the entirety of it.
Kinda like I'm not saying real time cutscenes is THE feature, anymore than cupholders are when you're picking a car, but it is something that's built in and maybe worth one's consideration. Just seems if some bit of work they've done, however small, benefits the seamlessness of your playthrough then credit where it's due.
I'm not entirely convinced this will sell all that well anyway. Or better yet, it will sell well but with all the negative press and people now having a more complete picture of what's on offer, it probably won't live up to whatever projections they may have had. Because I'll admit they botched this, much like Sony does, because this should have been a comfortable, right out of the park home run.
Still in a world where we have Nintendo, (or heck even Apple) it's hard for me to really grasp the fervent outrage toward ND/Sony here. They are certainly all guilty of shenanigans and if that's a bridge too far don't buy, or wait for a sale (at least in Sony's case because those other two companies wouldn't dare sully their reps pandering to broke plebs).
Wow that was longer than I intended.
@OrtadragoonX Nice! Hope so
@zupertramp That's just it. The price point really can't be separated from the conversation. Most people on the internet may not articulate what they really mean very well. Many are probably not aware of what their opinion/reaction/emotional perception of a thing is, they just know what their reaction is. But if ND came out and priced this at $35....maaaaaybe 40, I don't think the backlash would be anywhere close to what it is, for sure. There's no way this should have cost more, or really as much as, Lost Legacy which was all new content. When you get to the point that it's obvious companies are throwing everything at the wall to see just how much they can get away with, it absolutely deserves blowback. If not for that, we'd have been saddled with the whole XB TVTVSPORTSTV box with mandatory spy cam, and Sony, absolutely was going to go down the same digital activations route until the blowback happened to Matrick.
I think there's become a monumental schism between value perception and price points, and I think a LOT of what we're running up against in games conversations on this stuff isn't so much one particular title or another, and trying to drag conversations down that path ends up in finger pointing, name calling, and arguing over color chips in the mosaic. I think the bigger argument going in is actually one of economics, and the industry moving away, really for the first time, from pricing products at a fair price with a reasonable value offering and a symbiotic trust with the consumer, toward "get whatever we can get while the getting is good" explotative pricing that's, honestly, insulting. And they've moved toward embracing churn instead of establishing long term customer relationships. The symbiotic relationship of seller and buyer is being rejected in favor of an exploitative model that treats the customer as nothing bot a resource to liquidate. People, rightly are chafing at that, and games like TLOU get attacked, and the "effort" appears to get attacked when what's really being attacked is the presumptuous, offensive pricing that is a direct insult to the buyer from the seller. When a seller stops respecting their customers and treats them as a disposable resource for consumption, ideally, the buyers SHOULD revolt. It's the framework business is built on.
Sure, they CAN charge that, yes, they CAN squeeze blood from a lot of stones and milk the whales, but they do so at the cost of insulting many existing customers, and that cost definitely needs to hurt them. "Don't buy it" won't hurt them enough, because there's enough whales out there to make things profitable no matter how exploitative. It has to hurt them in terms of PR, image, and trust. That's what they're really injuring, and that's what, even if they CAN milk the whales dry, can force them to show restraint and (pretend to) treat customers respectfully with reasonable value in their offerings.
Nintendo has gone a strange route in being both the "budget" and the "premium" option at the same time. Nintendo defies logic and always has. In some ways they're the cheapest console to get into, and that gets them into a lot of hands. But then they're the most expensive console to own. I remember back with Wii, it was $199 and PS3 was $699. On the surface, Wii was for plebs, and PS3 was for the rich boys. I had a friend run the calculations on the necessary accessories, controllers, starter set of games, etc to get a "complete setup", and the Wii ended up more expensive than PS3, lol. I'd say Nintendo is Apple-like in the way they gouge, but then they also have the lower barrier to entry, so they're at the same time, the budget console and the premium console. Very weird.
But Sony trying to go the "luxury" route and following Nintendo is strange. That's not their market, and it never has been. They've always been dominant because they've been the cost effective, value priced product, and the two times they failed radically (PS3, Vita) are the two times they tried to go luxury. They killed Sega by being cheap. They killed Nintendo (but Nintendo is a phoenix) by being cheaper for devs. Being "for the masses" has always been the core of their success. So far it's not hurting them, I guess, but usually these sort of blowback events affect the following generation, not the current one were momentum is in place.
With them aligning toward PC and services, too, it's almost like they sense the end of consoles coming, and are just trying to milk the remaining customers while they can in a last push.
@NEStalgia one thing that sticks out for me here is the broader convo on price points. I can honestly say my perception of a reasonable price is detached from valued added at point of production. Because frankly I have no idea about the economics on their side and really never have -and don't care that much if I'm being honest. Like when I'd send off for my $30-$40 copy of Rise of the Triad or Sim Ant in PC Gamer or whatever (back in the 90s)... did those prices reflect production costs? I have no idea but I can't imagine these games cost anything more than the man hours it took the nerds from that era to program/render graphics and gameplay. We're probably talking really small teams with really low budgets. And the money they charged then has little of that buying power now in any market. Yet the budgets and employees on AAA titles have grown astronomically, further blurring the lines in my view of what a fair price is. So fair price for me usually just comes out to whatever I can reasonably afford. Feel like it's that way with most things. Believe that's called price elasticity.
And so then we get into a larger conversation about capitalism, which I'm absolutely not here to defend but rather acknowledge the reality of its existence and its impact on how companies decide on price. Which is to say, it's always been about "what's the most we can ask for this without having adverse impact on demand." That's the universal calculation. Maybe you're right that there was a symbiosis before but idk, I'm more cynical on that.
Anyway, definitely have no problem agreeing $39.99 or possibly $49.99 at worst would have been the sweet spot for a game like this.
@zupertramp Well one facet of game development is that the developers themselves have chosen to bloat their budgets to obscene levels for no apparent reason other than because they can and they want to, and then demand consumers foot the bill. There was no need to bloat these games to hundreds to thousands of employees with multi-hundred million dollar budgets. They told consumers they wanted that (meanwhile, Nintendo demonstrates that games made on 1/30th that budget can outsell any of them and gain wider appeal, even if then the gouge through the nose for them.) So I have little sympathy for devs and their budgets. If they can't manage money, that's their problem, don't demand consumers foot your overspending. But they've cultivated this weird market where people feel their "patronizing artistes!"
And when talking about discretionary items, especially media, I still find it odd when we talk about inflation since the old days. By that standard a DVD and even a book should cost $70 or more. Heck the game goes obsolete and needs a remaster, a book does not. Maybe books should be $200 because it's a lifetime access license. The idea that discretionary items can rise indefinitely in price never makes sense, as consumers just pull back on spending except for a more moneyed tier of consumer, but wierder as the gaming industry has ever more competition and so many titles releasing. If each costs more and more, that means consumers will end up buying less and less of them, and more and more titles will fail, given that the console market itself is pretty static in size, and they keep banking on the same people just paying more and more forever, or a young, spending market always popping up to spend more on it. That's a disastrous recipe. The whole formula has gone lopsided. Devs need to reign in budgets (now, we'll look at Atlus and Falcom....they're making games on shoestring budgets and now gouging....I'm not sure that's really a reasonable analyses in that light.)
For the market demand side, there used to be a symbiosis. And pricing was determined at one time (across the board) on cost + margin. Everything was determined by what the cost was to produce, what the market size is, plus a percentage for margin. It was the 80s with the whole "greed is good" mantra which turned that on its head and turned into this whole new wave "charge the most you can charge/what the market will sustain".
That model is an unmitigated disaster for anyone but investors, and it broke most of the free market system. It led to runaway inflation (even before now), the boom-bust cycle in the markets as we violently swing from soaring heights to the necessary collapses. Forced the endless merging into duopolies across the board, and a completely unsustainable market based on the ruinous idea of infinite growth, because it's less a free market system and more a mercantilist system. BUT not all industry took that approach, and gaming was a reasonably balanced symbiotic industry with a certain balance between producer and consumer, and was pretty stable. And, gaming was largely not publicly traded, which is a huge key to it all. It's only in the past few years it seems like gaming has mostly been taken over by non-gaming executives, fully public companies and merges that brought that full investment "soak 'em for all their worth" mentality. Valve/Steam is one of the few private companies left, and Gabe has explicitly said that that's why he keeps it that way.
In reality I think they're overplaying their hand and need their consumers more than they think they do. Catering only to an affluent market segment like that while profitable for now risks boxing it into a niche as the masses move on to new avenues, including mobile and subscriptions. Within 5-10 years we might be getting another round of Patcher telling us consoles are dead. And next time he might not actually be wrong. They, though successful at the moment, are starting to look like an out of touch dinosaur with a relatively tiny market niche of radically overpriced products in face of cheaper, more popular competition.
XB, to its credit is focusing heavily on ADDING value, while PS is focusing on extracting it, and we'll see long term how that pans out. Fanboys going on about sales figures aside, I think it's clear that PS is worried about that long term, otherwise they wouldn't be pouring so much fanfare into the new subscriptions and undercutting GP heavily.
Right now it just feels like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, while leaning hard into those future mass market trends, while also trying to milk their dinosaur console customers, who may or may not be more affluent and less self governing, for every last penny before the well dries up. But those dinosaur console customers who see what's going on have a right to be angry, and I hope can make a big enough noise to force a course change.
The "cash grab" language gets muddled. While they put work into it and it's not literally "we recompiled in a new API so please buy again" like Falcom and Atlus are asking, I think the very nature of the product, a re-release of the same product updated for current hardware as a new game at full price really is by nature a cash grab. Exploiting a market condition and the current temperament of the current customer base for maximum gain for a product that under another condition would clearly not be worth the asking price, really embodies everything a cash grab is about. People may complain about criticism, but I think the more these things suffer blowback whenever a company steps out of line with market expectations, even if profitable on a spreadsheet, helps correct their thinking to avoid tarnishing their image, the next time.
(Edit, sorry ,that came out way too lengthy! But I hated to delete content after writing it (unlike some people ) so I left it here.
No worries on the lengthy reply. It's crazy how long a reply can get when you feel you haven't even said that much. Not sure I catch the deleted content part but in any case I'm not too interested in getting mired in an overly complex economic discussion. I frankly hate talking economics. Could be that I'm a child of the 80s and all I've every known is the unfettered capitalism that you say is a broken free market. I see it as just where capitalism is and always will end up but we can agree to disagree on that.
Not sure endless inflation on discretionary items was where I was going with my comments but yeah they are always going to go up when other costs (and wages) go up. But with considerations like market size also dictating how much prices can rise, as you've mentioned. Interestingly I've bought textbooks that were a couple hundred. Another racket for another discussion though.
Also like, the bloated budgets... I'm bewildered because budgets for every artistic medium have that. And it's either your thing or it's not. But I don't know that the companies churning out any high budget content are forcing the costs onto consumers because that assumes consumers have to buy but they don't. Big budget stuff isn't for everyone and that's okay. That's why there usually exists room for indie stuff. Movies, music, literature... I'm happy there's a spectrum. Should there not be?
But anyway, to swing this back around, I still think the leak was essentially a low blow. Even more statements coming out now about how much of a misrepresentation it is of the final product.
I could be wrong and this could be a near identical replay of 2077 but I'm willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. And I stand by the notion that this is probably the best approach to this. If they've yet to screw over consumers thus far, is it not possible people are just jumping to conclusions? And that's rhetorical, I'm willing to agree to disagree on this as well lol.
Sigh Like this comment from yet another article about TLoU Part I:
"The problem is that they are thinking of two different things.. the Naughty Dog Developers are looking at how much work they put onto it and how technologically superior it is... But that's mot relevant to most consumers.. consumers don't care about real time vs pre rendered or any of that... Only how betters it looks, and to the untrained eye it doesn't look $70.00 better"
Like, it's so back and forth depending on who you ask as to whether the issue is mechanics or it just doesn't look good enough. The mechanics criticism is somewhat more fair, even if certain mechanics would have broken the game, but it doesn't look that much better?! No one being honest can sit down right now, boot up TLoU Remastered, and say it looks even close to as good as 2. Which is what this remake is doing. Feel like everyone agrees 2 looks amazing. Probably the best looking game on PS4 but then you tell people well hey let's make the first one look like that and then suddenly the difference isn't that drastic in their eyes. It's like, what?
Dodge Button Absent
Nostalgia Up For Resale
When Will I Go Prone
There are approximately 18 hours of gameplay (average from HowLongToBeat for TLOU1 + Left Behind) so a $70 price tag = about $3.89 per hour for a current gen experience. Multiple playthroughs provide a significant value-add.
I’m sure many will be just fine waiting for the price to drop (or not playing it at all), but it’s really not Naughty Dog’s fault inflation is a thing.
To each their own, but I love the game so much that I’ll be playing on day 1. Just finished an additional playthrough of the PS4 Remaster and I’m hyped for the remake.
Spend your money on what you think you’ll enjoy. Let others do the same without raining on their parade. It’s that simple. 🤷🏽♂️
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