Ever the contrarians, we’re cautiously optimistic about Sony’s revamped PS Plus subscription. Based on what we know so far – which, admittedly, isn’t much – we think the overhaul is welcome and necessary, and we’ve been refreshingly surprised by some of the features. While it was rumoured, we were sceptical PS1 games would make the final cut, and are thrilled to see PS2 and PSP included, too.
The problem is that PS Plus Premium players will have to use cloud streaming to play classic PS3 games, a decision that – without context – has such terrible optics, even Sony would agree. Our understanding has always been that the PS3 is simply too complicated to emulate, although that argument has been somewhat debunked by the RPCS3 program, which runs some PS3 games perfectly well on PC.
While its performance isn’t perfect, the argument is that this is a hobbyist product produced by amateurs who will never have he same understanding of the PS3 architecture like Sony does, with its original design documentation and all. One tweet that went viral overnight, posted by Dimitris Giannakis – also known as Modern Vintage Gamer – said that emulation is “absolutely possible”.
He explained: “Emulation of PS3 is absolutely possible on PS5 hardware. Sony has never been interested in investing the millions to make it happen, however.” In a follow-up video, he expanded on this, explaining that while he believes PS3 emulation could be achieved, it would be a multi-year project that would cost many millions and could face multiple licensing roadblocks along the way.
Renowned FromSoftware super-fan Lance McDonald – who famously made a 60 frames-per-second patch for Bloodborne – added: “I can’t get over Sony announcing that they have a PS1 and PS2 emulator up and running on PS4 and PS5 hardware but they’re locking both behind a subscription fee and won’t let you play discs you already own. Also they still can’t get PS3 emulation on the PS5.”
It’s worth noting that neither the PS5 nor PS4 can read CDs, so physical PS1 media was never going to be supported for this reason alone, but we take the point. Speaking about backwards compatibility, PlayStation bigwig Jim Ryan clarified last year that “trade-offs” need to be made when designing a system, as “time, engineering resource, and money are all finite”.
So, is PS3 emulation feasible on the PS5, then, and what kind of financial investment would it require from Sony? It’s a question that, frankly, only the executives at PlayStation may have the answer to. We’ll continue to ask around on this topic and will update when we learn more, but it looks like this is going to remain an unfortunate gap in the organisation’s offerings for the foreseeable future.
[source twitter.com, via youtube.com, twitter.com]
"So, is PS3 emulation feasible on the PS5, then, and what kind of financial investment would it require from Sony? It’s a question that, frankly, only the executives at PlayStation may have the answer to"
That's all what needed to be said. Hate hearing these people suddenly "experts" that don't know what they are talking about (most likely)
Streaming is great on my setup. Maybe people should git gud at internet and location
They can still take my suggestion for enabling reading PS1 and 2 discs. A sort of reverse-remote-play app where you put the disc into your PC then it streams the disc content over to the PS5/4 which runs it on their emulator.
@Milktastrophe I dunno, that just seems like a lot of hassle. I wonder sometimes, like... Backwards compatibility is good because it's a convenience, right? So if you're adding multiple steps to the process, why wouldn't you just play on the original hardware to begin with?
(I know that good backwards compatibility can improve the games, but you get what I'm saying here!)
It’s the ‘game freak have the Pokémon models’ all over again.
PS3 emulation might be theoretically possible on the PS5 but that Cell architecture is a *****. Maybe the boffins at Sony already tried and decided against it? They got PS2 emulation running which is just as difficult.
Honestly streaming isn’t a big deal. You already have your PS hooked up to the internet and PS3 games require significantly less bandwidth than 4 or 5 titles.
@Bismarck To be fair, some people simply don't have access to a good connection where they live.
The people freaking out over this are absolute losers. You seriously want to play outdated clunky PS3 games on the freakin PS5 ? Seriously ? No one cares, Sony doesn’t care clearly and they shouldn’t.
@Bismarck I should move and leave friends, relatives etc behind just so I'm able to properly stream PS3 games?
They should at least give you access to the ps1, ps2 and psp titles you have purchased digitally
@Wasted_Smuggler Well Sony seems to think playing the old games is compelling enough to make it the focal point of it's premium tier
@Bismarck I agree, I pay a little extra for the best that is offered in our area. I stream the games plus I also stream on twitch together without a hitch.
@get2sammyb And even with a good connection it can run terribly. Was streaming Lego The Movie ( PS3 game ) earlier though PS Now and get stuttering every Now and then. Streaming 4k content from streaming services works flawlessly though. Im not an expert, but that seems more of an issue from PS Now.
The bare minimum I'd like is an easy way to play old PS3 Sony-made exclusives that don't require streaming that eats into my data cap. Killzone, Resistance, inFamous, Sly Cooper 4, Puppeteer, the Team Ico HD collection, the old God of War games, etc. Just give me proper HD remasters of those or let me natively download 720p versions of those games on PS5 and PS4. That's all I ask.
That dramatically cuts down on the cost of emulating everything and removes A LOT of the licensing mess. Seriously, just give me that, Sony.
For me it's all about the PS1 games.
Galerians, The Adventures of Alundra, Legend of Dragoon, Vagrant Story.
Let me download them and I'll be happy enough. And for the love of Hime add Crunchyroll. That's the one unique thing they have that could add some fantastic value here. Then start rolling out a feckin Bloodborne anime or something.
@Wasted_Smuggler Plenty of people care, so speak for yourself. A good game is a good game, not everyone only cares bout graphics. If the gameplay is good i'll enjoy myself, regardless of how old a game is.
@RBMango Yeah, I feel like they ported a lot of the big games but then just stopped. It would be nice to have Killzone and Resistance and inFAMOUS like you say.
@get2sammyb I wouldn't even mind paying for them again if they're reasonably priced. I'm not naive to the cost of emulating those games, so I think that would be a fair compromise. A one-and-done $10 or $15 purchase of each ported PS3 game or collection.
There is no way emulation of PS3 games on PS5 is “mission impossible”. They just don’t want to invest the time and money in it. Which is understandable. But if hobbyists can get a emulator running, there is no way Sony cannot with all of their money and know-how (which obviously includes a complete understanding and unrestricted access to reference materials for the PS3 and it’s Cell processor). We don’t even have themes on PS5, so that tells us something about Sony’s attitude toward these things sometimes.
Definitely wish they had emulation running instead of streaming, but at least in my case the streaming via PS Now works great for me in my tiny backwoods town in central Missouri (US). I also tried the streaming via Gamepass ultimate recently, but the input latency was so bad it was completely unplayable. There’s a MS data center 50 miles away, so I’m not sure why it wouldn’t work for me. I guess what I’m saying is people should just try it for themselves and see how it goes, because it seems like everyone’s experiences differ wildly. It might not be as bad as you think, or it might be much worse! 😅
@WizzNL ok yes a good game is a good game. But why are people complaining about not being able to play PS3 games on PS5 ? A system that’s over 15 years old. If you still have a PS3 this shouldn’t be a problem, just continue paying on it. And if you don’t have a PS3 and really wanted to play PS3 games you would have bought one off a second hand retailer by now, if you cared so much. This shouldn’t be an issue in 2022 to complain so much about PS3 emulation.
Think it’s pretty obvious that for all the push now to support bringing backwards compatibility Sony still don’t really believe in it making them money. It’s niche. So why spend money working out how to emulate ps3 games to a decent standard when you can save time and stream them. check which site I’m on And I for one applaud them. Nostalgia’s nice to dip in to, but if I wanted to spend any decent amount of time there I’d have kept my ps3.
The more I think about these new tiers the more I’m left wondering just what they’re offering extra beyond sticking psplus and Now together. They sound more like a good promotion to let me know Returnal is coming to ps now.
I really hope we get more information soon on just what third party deals they’ve done. How long these games stay on the service for. How long trials are. And what the cut off point between trial and full release on the tiers is. They really haven’t communicated this well at all.
Honestly who is still playing ps3 games that doesn't still own a ps3 or two? I mean, I barely have time to keep up with games and I have games from the ps4 that I still haven't gotten to. There are games I'd love to revisit on PS3 someday but that's not any time soon.
@DualWielding if it wasn’t for Gamepass, Sony would never even think about revamping ps plus and adding PS3 streaming. The pressure from Microsoft forced them into this situation, they really didn’t care to do it in the first place.
Thank God I still have and use my PS3. It seems like it's still the only way to consistently enjoy those games.
With a PS5 and a PS3 (and maybe a Vita) you don't need anything else to play the majority of Sony's games.
@PhantomMenace84 honestly right ?! Who even has time ?? I enjoyed the PS3 generation and I had incredible memories from it, but that’s a chapter that’s now closed. I don’t even get nostalgic over it, I just look forward to new games and experiences.
@Wasted_Smuggler The people who really care will play on their PS3. Seriously, they should just do a kickstarter for the fund to emulate PS3 on PS5 and stop demanding that Sony fund their niche request.
Jim Ryan over and over has shown his disdain and even contempt for “old” games and certainly wasn’t going to spend a penny to let gamers play their collection - “they look and play rubbish” is basically what he said…. Who wants that?
Then he says old games look amazing pay us £100 a year to play your old games but only if we have them in the collection we release
The optics look bad because they are bad.
It’s basically if you want these old games put your money where your mouth is and we will take it.
Nintendo and Sony really are terrible when it comes to BC and old games and yesterday did nothing to help that at all.
Loud minority that won't play the backwards compatible games who stir the pot on twitter for clicks. I'd love to play older games, but I imagine within five minutes of picking it up I'd move on unless it's FF7/Tactics. This isn't a service that a many would actually use.
@Apfelschteiner @Wasted_Smuggler Sony clearly disagree lol. They are putting those in their top top tier. They obviously believe they are a big pull for many. Else they’d be in the bottom tier or not featured at all
Seriously why do people on here constantly say “people won’t use it and don’t want it it’s niche” Sony just made it a massive part of their most expensive tier. They did that from extensive research and knowing what gamers want. That’s a fact
I have GB Fibre Optic but there's no way in hell I would be willing to pay €120 just so I can play old games I likely already own. For games that I don't own I feel there should be a means to purchase them. I said this already on a discussion thread and I'm saying it here.
@Wasted_Smuggler yeah, especially with huge games like Horizon and Elden Ring that take 30-100 hours depending on how much you want to play. Not even including any multiplayer components.
I guess some people are way more serious about completing their backlog lol!
@RubyCarbuncle I own hundreds and hundreds maybe into 1000 of playstation games over Ps1/2/3/psp…. Physical And digital having an offer to pay them for £100 a year doesn’t seem consumer friendly. I would like to access all my digital games at least from my ps5…
@Bismarck What? seriously? what a ridiculous statement to come out with. Fibre Optic still isn't available for a lot of people as it's likely still in the process of being rolled out. Streaming is good for you is it? would you like a medal to go with that? 🙃
Emulation of the ps3 is no doubt fully possible but yeah it’s totally a money question. I wonder how many hours in total have gone into the PC ps3 emulator? Now imagine paying those people who’ve probably put in countless hours for that time and that’s already cost quite a bit to get to this point.
It then doesn’t even work for every game so you’ve got additional overhead to tweak it when you add a title and a ton of testing overhead. Then you’ve somehow got to make that money back. It’s easy to see why they don’t do it.
I’m sure there’s many engineers who would love to do it for a job though.
@Apfelschteiner exactly people who actually care about playing on PS3 would have by now, either bought a PS3 online, are play on the PC through emulation. People who are complaining about it on PS5 on the other hand are just annoying. It doesn’t need to happen, it’s not important and sony shouldn’t waste resources trying to make it happen, I mean seriously it really shouldn’t be up for discussion in 2022.
Emulation would be good for preservation but, realistically, I can’t even keep up with current gen releases, when am I going to play old games?
@Bismarck you are obviously not being completely serious but well done on triggering a few people. Your point isn’t irrelevant though, if you want lots of jobs and nightlife you move to a city. If you want to be able to stream games reliably and at a low cost you need to be somewhere with the infrastructure.
@PhantomMenace84 yea I’m way too focused on current games that have come out recently to even care about playing games that are over 15 years old. If they make a modern day remake of my favourite PS3 games then cool, I will support that. But I don’t need PS3 games emulated on my PS5. You know the PLAYSTATION 5 which I bought to PLAY PS5 games on.... LOL.
All the ppl here telling other ppl get better is classy move 👌.
I think they can do it and they just dont want to, streaming PS3 games through PS Now is ass even eith great internet.
Having to pay for backwards compatibility in subscription manner is just not ok.
@Stocksy Agreed I feel the exact same way. My bedroom is full of games and it would be nice if I could play them all on the one machine instead of having to pay a ridiculously expensive Premium for that privilege.
Marc Cerny himself could do this alone I reckon, he's a smart guy.
@Bismarck some people are too cheap to pay for high-speed internet. They wanted the most affordable option yet complain that they can’t stream games. You can’t have the best of both worlds. You gotta pay up for that high-speed if you care so much about streaming.
@Snake_V5 Knack 3 baby!
@kyleforrester87 Only if you pay for it people probably wont take just running games. I dont know how much it will cost.
The guy also says it will cost millions and might hit some roadblocks and may take several years. As a company that does not sound really like something i would go for.
Just give me the old way remasters and let me pay them for it. Just me the classic way just like Demon Souls, Shadow of Colossus i would love to pay for Heavenly Sword just to play it again.
@Flaming_Kaiser I don’t personally think it is worth the effort, it’s just whether it’s technically possible or not. The problem is, when you have Microsoft doing it just for fun, it makes Sony look bad.
@Wasted_Smuggler I had a 3MB option in the Netherlands for quite some time. Not everywhere there is that option to have high speed internet. And like it or not some people dont have that much extra money to spend.
I like spilling dirt on companies where it is justified. In this regard about emulations it is absolutely d*** move of a Sony and everyone knows it.
@Shepherd_Tallon Galerians was an awesome spin on the survival horror formula. The PS1 library was legendary in general. So many classics, hidden gems, etc.
@Shepherd_Tallon Yeah, the PS1 had some absolute classics on it, many of which we never got over here in the UK. They do seem to be finally rectifying that though (Chrono Cross, the Saga series), but yeah having the ability to purchase/download PS1 games a la carte on PS5 would be ace.
@kyleforrester87 I know but lets be honest here look at the money i think Sony does not even come close. Look at what they bought lately.
They buy everything they bought Activision Blizzard and Bethesda FFS. They have contracts with the militairy, Windows, Office yeah thats quite a big difference.
Thats why i always laugh when people act like they are the small guys. Yeah Sony is big but its like telling that i can do the same things like Christiano Ronaldo.
I think they should make ps3 games downloadable for the ps3 console if you have one, plenty of pre-owned consoles available for next to nothing if streaming ps3 games isn't your thing
@Ralizah I think have the game somewhere here. Parasite Eve 2, Legend of Legia 1/2, Breath of Fire 4, Legend of Dragoon, Final Fantasy 7/8/9, Twisted Metal World Tour, Resident Evil, Dino Crisis and im missing quite a few games.
@Royalblues Freedom Wars and Gravity and Rush i loved the games but they sold terrible and dont forget Soul of Sacrifice. 😁
In the end we all have a hand i losing these fantastic games by not buying them... ☹️
And yes i own all these games physically. 😁
It really is a shame. I still got my PS3 hooked up because I do go back to play it still if there is a dry season in recent game releases. For example I still have Ratchet and Clank Into the Nexus installed on my PS3 when the time is right. Never played it at release but I still intend to get to it. Or how after playing Persona 5 I wanted to go back and play Persona 3 for the first time. Had to dig up my PS3 to play it but I don't regret it because the game was awesome!
I would prefer however to have it simply playable on my PS5. Heck do it like Nintendo did by just putting a Wii emulator in the Wii U. Worked great! Do that for PS3 on PS5 and I and many others would really appreciate it Playstation!
Speaking for myself. Not being able to download PS3 games easily killed my interest in tier 3.
PS1-2 games are nice to visit for a moment but I’d put serious time into Motorstorm again.
For the people who say just play it in PS3, I do; but my PS3 controllers are getting very worn and it’s expensive and difficult to get new replacements.
@get2sammyb @Bismarck I have great internet and streaming PS3 games is a mediocre experience compared to either playing on disc or download.
I am fine either way, but I do kinda hope people make a lot of noise so that sony start something on it.
@kyleforrester87 My apologies i didnt read the first line.
I mean at this point we should all expect to be disappointed by Sony! More and more I am thinking the actual devs and their games are saving Sony time after time!
The announcement was bad, honestly. At least do a State of Play video with bits of the games you have on the service to entice subscribers...at least show us the retro games...
But yeah, PS3 emulation is 100% possible with effort...too bad Sony doesn't want to even try (for now!)
@Wasted_Smuggler "some people are too cheap to pay for high-speed internet."
Yup everyone knows that everyone is wealthy or at least well off so were just too damn cheap 🙄 I'm glad you're doing well for yourself but there's other (poorer) countries besides the one you're in.
@Shstrick Maybe that's because too many people are using Xcloud (in addition to other services) in your area, and thus, the Data Center gets overwhelmed serverwise.
PS Now don't have as many subs globally. That's why they are merging it with Plus
My suggestion in that case is that you use Xcloud, later in the night
I just want to play my psn purchases, I have a sizable digital library of ps3 titles and it'd be great if I could finally play those on my current system too.
@render not how many Hours? How many Years?
Even with my Fios Gigabit plan streaming PS3 games on PS Now was visually offensive, I had input lag galore every other minute and the screen would constantly turn black. I would almost be tempted for the premium tier if it didn't include PS3 games 🙂
That tickled me. Even felt the need to explain the joke to my non-gaming wife.
I must be lucky because whenever I streamed ps3 games on psnow they worked almost perfectly. Played through Darksiders, All the Batman Arkham games and many more.
All i hear is how ***** it is and it worked fine for me.
On the other hand i'd still prefer to download them. If we can't download them, i'll get over it.
@Juanalf I don’t pay a lot for internet because I don’t need that much bandwidth, I don’t do streaming or uploading or even online play. I just pay for basic internet.
However, people who have weak internet and can’t stream should not be complaining. You get what you pay for. I was being insensitive when I said “cheap”, so forgive me. I get that people have other financial commitments.
It's not possible to emulate the PPU's on PS5 grade hardware at a decent frame rate.
The games that work decent on rcps3 on pc are games that don't use the PPU's and that's on hardware better than the PS5.
Were a way off hardware wise before it's feasible. Sony know the hardware ofcourse but the folk who spend their time reverse engineering it know a decent amount and if Sony did make their own emulator it doesn't mean that it's going to run easy.
Ever since they made this announcement, I've been wondering why I wouldn't just be able to play the PS3 games (discs OR downloads) I already own on my PS5? I'll be interested to hear more about this in the future. I admit I'm FAR from any kind of technical guru but if it can run them one way or another, why not what I already own? ......Although I suppose I could still just use my PS3 for them.
I'm also curious to know if any of the PS1, 2, 3 or PSP games that never had trophies (RESISTANCE: Fall Of Man, for example) will be getting them now?? That may 'change the game' for me if so......
If they could improve the streaming quality of the PS3 games I would be interested in signing up to the higher tier. Metal Gear 4 was akin to me playing any game with my glasses off.
All I know is I love going and getting achievements from Xbox 360 games on my Series X. STILL trying to get through FFXIII-2 (which i’m not liking) but no doubt it plays amazing and love not having to plug a 360 in to play it. BC is awesome.
@K1LLEGAL I went back and finally completed Far Cry Instincts the other month. I had two left to get and just never bothered. Had the random urge to go for them, booted up the game, spent a couple of hours, and got both. Ten plus years apart. Same save file. Same game. 100% completed now. It's not the first time I've done this (though this is the biggest time gap in between the last and most recent earned achievements) and it won't be the last.
It's a thing I just can't explain how good it felt to do. Something I know won't work with this subscription services.
@lolwhatno I can emulate ps3 games on my pc & it's less powerful than my PS4 pro so it's not impossible it's just that emulation can vary between games some will work fine & others won't they'd have to invest alot of money to make an emulator that works well enough to charge people for it
Once again sony gives australia the shaft i guess its not enough we pay 40 dollars more than americans for games. Now they still wont bring ps now here how long do we have to wait.
@kyleforrester87 Doing it for fun no. Microsoft is doing it because they can do that.
Why? Because all Xbox Consoles share one thing in common with each other and Windows: Direct X API
And because all Games that came to Xbox (no matter if it was the OG, 360, One and Series) must work with Direct X (mandatory) in order to run. that makes it that ALL Games that came to a Xbox console Backwards Compatible with Xbox One/Series. The only thing that keeps them from coming are Licensing issues (and some have issues with controllers, for example that mecha game from the OG that had such a giant controller)
Of all the PS consoles, only 2 of them have an API: PS4 and PS5 (both of them using custom (aka watered down) versions of Direct X 11). Compound it with the fact that both PS2's Creation/Emotion Duo and PS3's Cell Processor were a real pain to work with (specially compared to PS4 and PS5 (which don't even use a Dual Processor architecture but an APU) which adopted AMD's x86 Processors rather than going on their own). You get the Idea why emulation of these 2 consoles require very much High end PCs for example or why so many PS2 and PS3 had to be remade from Scratch or ported from PC versions in order to bring them over to PS4 and PS5
Glad to see we're back to crying about BC. We haven't done that since the beginning of this gen when that is all the competition talked about because they embarrassingly had no new games to start off with.
@lolwhatno Seeing as though one of those people that you are referring to (Modern Vintage gamer) is an actual games developer with a lot of experience and knowledge when it comes to emulation, I think he knows a lot more than you think he does.
@Wasted_Smuggler I would also say that if it wasn't for the terrible Xbox one launch Microsoft probably wouldn't have bothered with BC either
Sony just needed to hire RPCS3 core developer team and investing millions of bucks and spending several years on the project would not be needed.
It’s bad enough we had stupid “fanboy” wars over PlayStation vs Xbox , the on-going acquisition wars, and exclusivity wars. Now we have subscription wars, PS Plus vs Gamepass.
Everything is a battle for some people. Play on whatever you want and keep your nose out of the business of others. Is that so hard ?
I lose brain cells reading and listening to some of you.
The PS4 and PS5 CAN read CDs, there is misinformation spreading about it missing support due to not having a laser for it which is false. Sony just didn't include the ability to play audio cds with the modern consoles
It's one thing making the ps4/ps5 emulate older games from the hard drive, but it's a different all game to actually getting the console disk drive to read the disks.
But, if anyone can do it it's sony, especially when it comes to ps3 games that run on Blu Ray disks, you know, Blu Ray that sony invented and owns...
@Richnj did the same with Blue Dragon; something like 14 years later just to get the last 4 achievements. Had to load up random saves to finish them off. Absolutely mental that it works so well. Also Dragon Age Origins and a few others 👌
*just checked True Achievements and I think my biggest time between first and last achievement for a completed game is Feeding Frenzy at 5018 days, 22 hours and 40 minutes (Blue Dragon was 4507 days). I find stats like this so interesting because i’m cool.
I have PS3 Slim bought on 29 December 2019 and already have 42 PS3 games in physical (and keep collecting PS3 games until 60 PS3 games) so I don't even need streaming PS3 games service.
@lolwhatno - Dimitris Giannakis is a lead dev at Nightdive Studios and he's been coding console emulators from scratch for over twenty years. He's well up on his knowledge.
Still have my PS3 and it is where I will keep playing my PS3 games, but yes it being a streaming only option is weak. Also gotta love the people saying ‘just get better internet lol’ like that’s an option for everyone.
I’m wondering if the problem is not that The PS5 can’t play PS3 titles through emulation but I can’t enhance them, Resolution boost,higher frame rate etc. because I don’t think most people would be all too impressed playing a sub 720P ps3 game that struggles to hit 30fps on a 4K TV on a ps5 where most native games run at 60fps. But I don’t know I don’t work at Sony nor do I have a YouTube channel or Twitter account I’m trying to promote.
It's simply just laziness, they absolutely could make it work, they don't want to
@Bismarck Sorry, but your comment about people needing to git gud at internet and such for streaming is one of the most asinine statements I've ever seen on this site. It's not my fault that the cable wiring in this house is so bad I can't have cable internet, so I have to go with DSL since none of the other better alternatives are offered in the area (like Verizon and such).
The new PS Plus is a mess overall, with backwards compatibility that should have been available on the PS4 and PS5 for free being locked behind a subscription and them being too cheap to bother doing actual PS3 emulation. Sorry @lolwhatno, but just because Sony hasn't done it yet doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't and that people that suggest they could have done it by now are wrong. Sony isn't right about everything, and it's clear they care more about their bottom line than offering real value with this new PS Plus (unlike Xbox with their backwards compatibility and Game Pass).
@Kooky_Daisuke true however MS sorted their backwards compatibility out at a time when they had to. They had no new games coming out and it filled the release schedule with something. They also have a lot more money to throw at it than Sony do.
I know it’s not ideal but if people are so bothered about playing ps3 games you can pick up a console and games for peanuts and play them the way they were meant to be played.
I have gallons of diesel stockpiled in my garage, I used to fill my old car up with it.
I've recently bought an electric car but I can't put my diesel in it. I'm complaining to tesla.
@Bismarck Australian internet disagrees with this
My PS3 still sits alongside my TV and it just works, playing PS3 games in full with DLC as required.
Problem is that Sony is on the back foot with regards to backwards compatibility; as @Arkantos2990 said, the X Box has the Direct X and Windows APIs to call on - they just got more complexity added to them as time went on so recompiling a game is much easier than anything Sony have. Sony's recent systems have all been a branch of BSD Linux so the emulation would have to be written from scratch.
Also, the sheer grunt to emulate the Cell AND its inter-communicating SPUs AND its graphics card is going to be a serious ask and quite possibly beyond a PS5's architecture unless you're going to use all its cores to try and emulate the background processing SPUs and that adds another bottleneck.
Cerny is a clever bloke but even he might have looked at this and worked out that a very low frame rate emulator was a step too far.
'Sony's...(insert 'EVERYTHING' SONY does PlayStation wise)...Are Causing a Storm on Social Media' If anyone can, SONY can make a PlayStation play 'ALL' PlayStation discs some how. I wish they would but have given up on that dream/hope now
The Cell was… A beautiful disaster. That’s how I’ve always looked at it.
Funny thing is that if Cell released today, developers would have a much better grasp of how to use it out of the box. Modern GPU architectures from nVidia and AMD operate on similar principles to Cell; it’s one reason they are unavailable because they are great single instruction number crunchers for floating point operations, making them perfect for crypto mining algorithms. If crypto had been big back in 2006, the PS3 probably would have taken off with that crowd since Cell’s SPEs were built with the same objective in mind; crunch a bunch of numbers repeatedly and efficiently.
Cell came at a time when developers were used to multi instruction processors. It’s very concept was radical and Kutaragi, being the egoist that he was, thought that developers would take the time to learn his esoteric radical architecture. Outside of Sony’s first party studios, everyone hated the design.
But I will say that without Cell, games like Uncharted 3, Last of Us, and Resistance 3 would not have been possible on PS3 hardware. The RSX GPU was weak as hell; the 360’s GPU was far superior. Thanks to the SPEs, Sony studios could off load polygon positioning calculations to them to assist the RSX, as well as performing other GPU tasks like anti-aliasing algorithms. Without Cell, those games would never have released on PS3 with its dog crap RSX GPU.
A lot of this comment section doesn't understand the technical aspect of PS3 emulation. You can't just flip a switch and make it work. Yes it's possible to emulate but because of the CELL architecture which was notorious to work with it would take years and many millions of dollars, not even adding licensing issues with all the different companies. So yeah I really don't blame Sony for deciding it's just not worth it. Yes RPCS3 is a thing but that has been in progress for many years, is still glitchy as hell for most games and requires a pretty beefy PC just to run.
I think the PS5 could do it, but they would need some hella good optimization in the emulator to pull it off.
They’d have to leverage the Tempest audio chip to assist with SPE emulation. It’s a similar concept to Cell in terms of how it functions, and it wouldn’t be needed for audio for PS3 titles.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the PS5 ran audibly louder playing emulated PS3 games over PS5 games. It would tax the system to max. But I feel like it could be done IF Sony was willing to spend the money and get together the old Cell SDK team from Naughty Dog, who understood the Cell better than the engineers who designed it.
@sanderson72 first of all Direct X is used by both Xbox and Windows by default with other ones like Open GL and Vulkan coming into play later in the Xbox One's Cycle (mostly for Windows)
Otherwise what you said is true. The PS3 is such a complex machine in it's design that the only people that could fully understand it are the very people that were involved in the Console's creation (the former IBM techs that created the Cell Processor and the Hardware Architects of the PS3 itself). The problem is NONE of them are working on those companies nowadays (some are even retired)
And the problems of creating a PS3 for the PS5 are increased because of one design decision Cerny made: The PS5 uses an APU (the x86 equivalent of ARM's SoC that is used on Mobile devices (and the Apple Sillicon Macs)) rather than using the Dual Processor Architecture, in other words, it uses a Mobile-like Architecture. I don't say it's a bad thing when it comes of Modern Gaming, but when i comes of emulating PS2 and PS3, it's not that ideal
@K1LLEGAL You are cool.
I just checked TA for mine, it says Far Cry Instincts was 5,805 days, and I have Gun as around 5,700 days. That's nearly 16 years between my first achievements and my last ones.
I have a longer history with these games than I do my partner or our two sons.... That's kinda sad.
Removed - flaming/arguing
@TheRedComet and i'm not denying that the PS3 is such a advanced machine at the time and a testament of Sony's Philosophy when it came of Hardware Making and how Revolutionary they were back in the day. And i believe it still is today, more than a decade after, one of the best consoles out there along with it's very predecessor, PS Vita, Sega Dreamcast and both (unpopular opinion for some) the Nintendo Wii U and 3DS
Lmao I am not paying for the Sony emulation. I already own any game I'd like to play, and am not paying for a service to play them when I have a PC perfectly capable of doing it, for free, with features this new probably will not even have.
I can even get PS3 games running (kinda poorly by today's standards, but fine by PS3 standards) on my rig.... For anyone serious about game preservation and playing games that you probably ALREADY BOUGHT invest in a decent PC or even an Xbox Series S for emulation.
It is not illegal. You own the license that you need to play the game already. Sony has already tried...and LOST a court case that details that it isn't illegal for anyone to have access to this software that enables you to play games you already legally bought.
Don't fall for this upset even if you have great internet (I have 450mbps, it's amazing). The PS3 games still run like absolute crap even with great internet especially something like MGS4 which already ran like crap.
It’s more complicated than you think.
It’s not laziness. It would be an enormous financial undertaking. They would need to build a team that knows Cell like the back of their hands, but are also intimately familiar with the PS5’s architecture.
Unlike with a PC where you can brute force many of the calculations, the PS5 doesn’t have the cooling overhead nor the raw power to perform PS3 emulation like RPCS3 on a solid gaming rig. So the team would need to be capable of extreme manual optimization of code, on both the PS5 side and the PS3 side, to pull it off. It would require every asset the PS5 offers, and they would need to get creative; for example, finding a way to leverage the Tempest audio chip to assist with emulating the SPEs.
And they have to do this without exceeding the PS5 cooling threshold. The PS5 doesn’t run its APU at max clock constantly; it fluctuates wildly based on draw, game needs, and cooling necessities. They would need to take that into consideration as they built out the emulator.
What would be nice is, if they have PS1 and PSP emulation up and running, how about allowing me to download games on those systems I own digitally from previous consoles and play them on the new console, if they are also availble in these new services. I am almost sure Sony wont do this, as you had to re-buy digital PS2 games on PS4, even if you had bought them on PS3.
I suppose that while the ps3 servers are up and running, that remains an option. I mean, it'd be nice to have a do it all console, but its better than nothing. Though the price of old ps3s and their games are steadily creeping up, and will likely continue to if no other way to play them is made available.
I wish we had an option to stick our already purchased PS1/PS2 discs in and play those. Even if we had to hook up a USB disc reader to read from and feed the data in. I'd like it equally if they allowed you to download the games you already bought on their storefront. (I bought countless PS1 classics on PS3 and now they're just not available I guess. Awesome.)
I'm about ready to just buy a PS2 and the discs I want and be done with it. I could slap myself Will Smith style for selling my PS2 and games years and years ago!!!
Well that you mistake. You should've never sell your console and it's games because one day they become so valuable on the Grey Market that you'll never get them back. That's why it's more better to invest on repairing your old console as well
But you could actually get a BC Fat PS3 and be done with it no need to buy a PS2
@Balosi Well i suggest investing on External Hard Drives o Data Bank so you could place your games there rather than Uninstalling them
Give me some sly cooper collection and im good to go.word up son
Removed - offensive remarks
What WORTHY ps3 games aren't remastered already?
Maybe some sony, rockstar games?
I think that's it, lol.
XBOX X&S for backwards compatibilty to last gen, and some PS3 and PS2 era games, bc games owned, not rented, BC game upgrading, web browser, cd play, a smaller non goofy looking console, exclusives not as good as Sony exclusives, and odd asymmetrical sticks placement. Also game pass.
PS5 for, no web browser, no cd play, bc to PS4 games, disappointing bc to other than PS4 games, excellent exclusive games that MS can only dream of having, big ugly odd looking design, "normal" symmetrical stick placement, and good a history of hardware durability. Also nothing, to date, as good as XBOX game pass.
@Would_you_kindly I didn't say it's impossible, just that the people saying it's easy and that Sony are lazy are wrong.
@IslandLogic I said that "most likely they don't know", plus being a game dev doesn't mean anything in this scenario. He makes video games so now, he suddenly knows about console architectures and emulation? nope.
@Shigurui And that's why I used the term "most likely", some people know what they're talking about. I was specifically talking about the average twitter user sitting on his couch and complaining. Also, don't know a lot about that guy, but console to console emulation is really different than console to PC (depending on which he does).
@KilloWertz I never said that, and you're correct. My point was that it's not as simple as most of these people think, one of them was talking about how Sony just doesn't want to invest the "millions" to make it possible. Throwing such a vague number on this issue is proof that he doesn't know what he is talking about (IMO). You can't know exactly what problems will arise during the development of the emulator.
were people expecting native ps3 support? i could have easily told you it was going to be cloud streaming only. its pretty much psnow combined into ps+ and ps3 games were only playable by streaming on psnow. not sure why this is still something people talk about when most of them know its not coming.
@Wasted_Smuggler I disagree with every single thing you said in this comment section:
Old games being bad / people who don't have good internet are just not wanting to / no one wanting old games.....
But you hit the nail on the head with "some people want to make everything a war". It's such a weird mentality, trying to justify your choice by insulting every other one, deep down, I hope that console warriors are but a bunch of teenagers. (that will hopefully grow out of it)
people keep brining up 360 b/c , but they announced they are no longer adding any more titles to it. and i still have a bunch of games that were never added. so yeah they have b/c but its far from perfect.
@Wasted_Smuggler Sony should put the effort to remake or remaster the remaining games stranded on PS3 that people care about like Resistance, Good of War, and Sly Cooper. I can't think of any other first-party games that should be on PS4/5, but aren't.
@Stocksy It's the opposite. It's too niche to offer at the lower level because it would just be an added cost for people on the basic tier who don't want it.
@PenguinL It's just that it's very annoying to keep hearing people go on about PS3 games. Sony have looked into it and run the numbers and it just isn't worth it. There are people who are getting PS3 games working on PC emulators, and they say it is easy, but what is not easy is getting it to a high level of quality. It would be a major headache and drain of resources to run such a service, and ultimately, it would probably be unprofitable. In general, people don't want to play PS3 games, and if they do they can stream them or they can dust off their old PS3. It was nice that Xbox did allow gamers to play their old games that they owned on disc, but that was probably losing them money. The other thing is gamers are incredibly entitled and a lot of gamers refuse to pay for a service that want to recieve. If you bought a game on PS3, you paid for the game on PS3, you didn't pay to play it in perpetuity on all future hardware. Expectations have changed along with software and hardware design, so everything from PS4 on will be available in future. Sony is also right to charge for PS5 versions of PS4 games if they put significant resources into the game.
So the question is why won't people like you just let it go?
@RevGaming MotorStorm Pacific Rift & Apocalypse, Little Big Planet 1 & 2...
The only PS3 games I'd be interested in streaming are probably Alice: Madness Returns, Arkham Origins and Persona 3. So if they're available, I'd probably pay for a month to play those, but otherwise, not that interested in paying to stream games I already paid for before.
@Richnj haha jeez you got me beat. I’m gonna have to go and finish off Hexic HD or PD0 (fat chance).
@twitchtvpat they stopped due to licensing issues but at least with the ActiBlizz acquisition they may soon be able to add Tony Hawk/Cod/Spyro/Crash etc to BC.
Honestly, I think it would look less bad optically if they just said the classic games thing is for PS1 and PS2 and PSP and they just never mentioned PS3 at all. Streaming is the big issue, because everyone hates it. Everyone hates streaming.
Everyone hates streaming if its from Sony, or google for that matter!
Meanwhile the same commentators love xcloud and nvidia streaming options and its the future of digital consumption?
Ive never understood the disparity between these views as ive used them all and they are very similar. I dont wish to play old titles on a new machine myself, but ive always subbed to 'now' (I dowload ps4 titles), and ive tried streaming some ps3 stuff and not had any issues, it seems perfectly ok to me.
To my knowledge modern vintage gamer worked on emulators for the original xbox, did the switch versions of shantae and also worked on the new versions of quake
@Wasted_Smuggler I agree, a 2nd hand PS3 is dirt cheap. Whats holding people back?
PS4 games are much more relevant today so I can understand wanting back compat on those. But for the niche that want PS3 games you can just buy a PS3 right? I dont expect my new TV to play videotapes either. If I really want that I buy a VCR from some vintage store.
Wonder why Microsoft soft stopped doing emulation? obviously it wouldn't effect Sony emulation of PS3 3rd party games.
I’m sure I’ve heard John from Digital Foundry talk about how Sony have handled their emulation using streaming on one of their podcasts and he’s basically said it’s gash and hardly fit for purpose. Jim Ryan said it’s great though so obviously I believe Jim.
@lolwhatno My bad. Obviously I read your comment wrong. Yeah, in the end, who knows how much money it would take or what problems they would run into. It will be hard for me to ever believe that it couldn't have been done if Sony really cared about doing it though.
@lolwhatno I agree, we can't know how much it would cost, and as a matter of fact, we cannot know wether it would work and how well it would work.
If it's true that there are PS5 APU available, one could try running RPCS3 on there and see if it's possible, being mindful that you would be on a different OS and with different graphics APIs. Aside from that the PS5 should be pretty much a standard x86 PC.
And also, are we really sure that making an emulation software really would be more expensive than having who knows how many servers for streaming, with custom CELL hardware around the world to be powered and maintained?
There is one thing I don't understand though, how can the licensing be a problem for PS3, but not PS1, PS2, PSP and even PS4. PS2 games on the store have essentially been repackaged by the publisher itself from what I know, so no problem there, but what about PS1 and PSP? And why can we play PS4 games on PS5? The disk explicitly says that they can only be used on an authorized PS4 system. Is the licensing for PS3 necessarily different than PS4?
Am I the only person that feels like this doesn't really matter, in the grand scheme of things? The majority of the critically acclaimed games on PS3 have subsequently been remastered or re-released on PS4 or PS5. Arkham Collection, Bioshock Collection, Nathan Drake Collection, Last of Us, Burnout Paradise, Modern Warfare, Yakuza, GTAV, Journey etc... they all have playable versions on PS4/PS5. The only big guns missing are GTA4, MGS4, Portal 2 & Red Dead.
@KilloWertz No worries, you raise a very good point though, I quickly typed my initial comment without much thought. i didn't think that there were this many people that knew about the topic. Should've checked more before commenting.
Still in HFW btw?
@BLNX Yep, people bring succesful emulation stories on ps5 but fail to mention that a lot (don't know if it's all) require heavy modifications to the system (let's not talk about security).
And to your point about the ps3 licensing, sorry can't help. I'm as clueless as you are.
@DETfaninATL it's not currently possible to run PS3 games on a PS5. What the cloud streaming they're offering here does is run PS3 games on different hardware and then send you the image of the game.
The reason why Sony won't let you do that for PS3 games you own is it costs money to stream and they don't want to sign up to giving away money so people can play their own games.
The discussion is whether Sony could make it possible to play your PS3 games on PS hardware, but even if it is possible, it would take a lot of time before we could do that because the PS3 hardware was very weird. Xbox hardware has always been more standard which makes it easier for Microsoft.
From the PS4 onwards Sony has been more normal on it's hardware design, so I hope backwards compatibility won't be an issue in the future.
Well just sony showing how out if touch they still are, lets see if they change their mind after spartacus bombs... #allpraisethemessiahthatisphilspencer
@ThomasHL Thanks for the simple explanation on that - I genuinely appreciate it!
I was thinking more of resistance, killzone 2-3 and InFamous. That's literally what they should remaster.
Rockstar is gta4 and rdr1
Dead Space with the remake isn't needed.
there's nothing else worthwhile to remaster imho. Not gen defining.
bet they are all 5 of them 🤦♀️
It'd be nice to be able to download and play older titles, but despite owning a few PS1 games on disc, I don't feel it's Sony responsibility to make PS5 compatible with those old discs in any way.
Honestly, when it comes to PS3 games I would be far more interested in seeing VR remasters of the games for PSVR2 than just being able to play the same flat versions on PS5.
Games like Killzone 2+3 and Resistance 1-3 would be so amazing in VR... a completely new way of experiencing familiar games. Please make it happen Sony!
As much as I dream about the ultimate PlayStation system that has the ability to play its vast history, I’m resigned to the fact that I’m probably always going to have my PS3 hooked up in addition to whatever their latest console happens to be. Ideally, the industry would care more about game preservation, but in comparison to films, books, music, any form of art, it’s a very young and immature industry. You can tell because one of the top upvoted comments on this article calls people who want it “absolute losers”.
In the end, if you really want to play those games, it’s best to rely on yourself for them, rather than fruitlessly waiting for full backwards compatibility or paying yet another service for a half baked solution.
People keep saying there’s only a few games worth playing that are left to remaster/release/remake from the PS3 era of gaming, but that’s only true if you play only the most mainstream critically acclaimed stuff exclusively.
Best to just buy a PS3 if you don’t still have one and collect and play what you want at your leisure. No matter how weird someone might try to make you feel by playing “out of date” games, do what’s good for you.
i feel like i took a time machine in this article , it feels like the same things people were saying years ago when the ps4 came out. i'm glad i kept my ps3 around , i don't really play it to often tbh , which is why i never bothered to get psnow because it would be a waste. but i still have the itch to play it every once and a while.
@Wasted_Smuggler You do realize that new gamers start playing by the millions every year, who have never played a PS3 game? I honestly feel bad for people who have such a myopic view of gaming - if it isn’t a AAA cinematic third person action adventure with a metacritic of 90+ released in the past month, it’s trash.
No doubt about it, giving access to PS3 games without having to buy another console would be a consumer-friendly move.
@k3lt0n not going to lie it takes a while to get used to how the games looked back then , and how they play , fps ect. a lot of the games didn't really age well to 2022. naughty dog pretty much said they had to redo their ps3 games to even get them to work on the ps4.
@k3lt0n if they want to play ps3 games, we have a product for them and it’s called the ps3. They can buy one.
@Wasted_Smuggler So now we're quoting Don Mattrick like it's a good thing? That's the state of Playstation - Xbox at the launch of One? That says a lot.
@k3lt0n What Sony really should have done is include a huge library of PS3 games available on the PS Store to download without the need of a PS Plus subscription. They should charge a premium price for each game the consumer wants, and they would have to have an online connection to access the servers to play the game.
On the side, If you have a PS Plus subscription, these PS3 games available to purchase would be discounted at a reduced price. As far as PS1and PS2 games, they would be available for streaming.
"The RPCS3 program, which runs some PS3 games perfectly well on PC" yeaah no, rpcs3 runs most perfectly at 4k60fps with 16x anisotropic filtering, i don't know how people can stream ps3 games on psnow that looks 100 times worse than using rpcs3 which makes the game look like it's running on a ps5
@PegasusActual93 I've got a measly 10300h but a 3060 but i can run most games at least in 4k30 like tales of xillia 1 and 2 or drakengard 3, haven't tried with many games but these run perfectly like you're playing natively on a ps5, can't imagine what the ps5 cpu and gpu can achieve since if sony decides to do it, it's nothing like rpcs3 guys it's the guys who made the system in the first place lmao
@lolwhatno Yep, I still don't have a flying mount yet though. If I did less side quests and more main story quests, obviously I would have had one and been done with the game a while ago, but no way I was rushing through this.
PS3 RPG games are not exactly demanding and also you are ignoring 90 percent of what i was saying, 1. how expensive it would be to do full compatibility, 2. It would take several years, 3. They have to go through all the licensing between companies and 4. All that work for what? Sony wouldn't make a penny from it and lets be honest only a fraction of PS5 owners would even use it. So yeah I don't blame them for not doing it.
@DualWielding it's not about the appeal of streaming, it's about the costs that comes with it. Don't forget that they are also expanding the service to more markets. Especially that Sony uses Azure from Microsoft to make all this happen.
@KilloWertz And I have yet to know that there's one, won't google it. Please do tell me if you ever find one, glad to hear that you're still enjoying the game. Happy gaming sir.
@Milktastrophe ermm, while ok, ps4 and ps5 can't read CDs, they at least have an optical drive, my PCs haven't had one since late 00s and I would assume its the same for most people, laptops too haven't had drives installed for years
@Bismarck Literally no one cares.
@Bismarck @Bismarck Literally no one cares.
I really don’t understand how people were expecting anything different from what Sony did. They are reacting to Gamepass, none of this looks like it is coming out of years of planning.
I’m personally quite happy with the proposition. I get more at the same price. I was happy before, I can’t complain now.
But hey, if you are disappointed? Jump ship, you don’t own anything to Sony and it’s the only way to really hurt them.
The XSS is cheap and easier to find. Maybe a gaming PC would be even better, but that’s expensive and you have to deal with Windows. Hopefully the Steamdeck changes that, though. One can hope.
My 2 euro cents.
I have great internet, and I still don't want to stream games. I will never play games via streaming.
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