Horizon Forbidden West Will Now Offer Free PS4 to PS5 Upgrade, Sony Confirms

And this is literally why we complain. We as consumers have the power to change things.

Good to hear. Keep everyone happy leading into the playstation event don't want anything negative weighing it down

Doesn't hurt to call Sony out apparently !! And same thing will happen with next games if you promote them as cross-gen.

Cool. I’ll buy the PS4 version and get the PS5 upgrades for free then I guess. Sorry guys.

Very nice.
I already payed the extra €10 though - I wonder what happens with that

Good, they've made the right call.

Hopefully this site can calm down a bit and we can all look forward to Thursday's showcase.

Great news. Though it won't take more than a day or two before "fans" will find something else to be angry about.

@Steel76 PS4 gamers will still have to pay to upgrade the game once they obtain a PS4 but at £10/$10 instead of having to buy it again. I think that's fair.

Called it. And now everybody is grateful for the £10 upgrade option of the same games on ps5. Told you - Sony are genius. Expect plenty of posts and fanboy YouTube videos praising Sony for allowing us to spend more to unlock higher graphic options that we already paid for when purchasing the ps5.

Seriously, anybody who can't see the benefits of xboxs smart delivery by now needs their head seeing to.

@Col_McCafferty nah, free upgrade for Horizon, $10 for GoW, GT and other future cross-gen games

@nessisonett
Props to them for listening. I was not expecting that!

Great news but the game should be $60 on ps5 too because it is a ps4 game (unless there are many differences).

Can I get my extra $20 back tho lol! All good, glad they made the adjustment for those that were upset, always a good thing!

Not gonna lie, did not expect this.
Let's complain about PS Plus again since the last few months have been "meh".

I'm genuinely intrigued to see how this all plays out over the next year or two. Happy to see this.

For everyone else who wanted fans to pay double, please make sure you send an extra $80, or whatever it was, directly to Sony, lest you be a hypocrite.

@Voltan Ah yes, apologies. Hmm, so what's the incentive in PS5 owners buying the more expensive PS5 version?

Another controversy!

😉

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife Yes. That’s me. I’m a lazy sh*te.

@Col_McCafferty see you know the score. Tell me in your head how a conversation goes where you tell a pc player that to play on 'high' graphical settings they have to pay £10 extra. How do you spin it as being 'fair' and not have them see you as a complete unreasonable loon? Tell me what Sony told you to convince you to believe that the same cross generation game being £10 more expensive so it takes advantage of the hardware you've already paid £500 for is fair. I genuinely want to know.

Still not getting any props from me. Similar to the PS3/Vita store situation, I seriously cannot believe Jimmy and his yes men didn't think this wasn't going to go well. They're not THAT stupid. They did this to intentionally push fans and see what they could get away with. It didn't work, and now they're withdrawing in order to ride off of positive PR. It's scummy as hell.

No one should be thanking them. Screw them.

@Col_McCafferty That's what I'm wondering. Will they update the prices and make retailers refund the difference?
More curious than mad tbh

@Richnj Not many on here wanted people to pay twice, rather they just said it's your choice if you want to play it so bad you'll get it on PS4 anyway or wait until you have a PS5 before purchasing the game.

I also said the plan sucked and I hoped Sony would change their minds. I'm pleased they made the right call, indeed there shouldn't have been this controversy in the first place.

Good to know they changed their mind. They listened like how they listened to the PS3/Vita store closure backlash. Now if only a certain company with a red plumber would listen to their fans too.

@Col_McCafferty "Not many on here wanted people to pay twice, rather they just said it's your choice if you want to play it so bad you'll get it on PS4 anyway or wait until you have a PS5 before purchasing the game."

Kinda feels like the same thing, especially when FOMO and console shortages are a thing.

I've been a long advocate for not buying games within the first year of launch, but having a multi billion dollar company spend millions on advertising their brand new console, and their brand new game, then telling people who have been unfortunate enough to not be able to buy the console that "you can get our new game on the console you have, but if you then are lucky enough to get our new console, well, you'll also have to rebuy that brand new game we just spent millions trying to get you to buy at launch" seems a little sketchy, and dare I say, exploitative.

@RBMango it was a conversation changing tactic. This is how business is. The original conversation was we believe in generations. That next gen games have to be £70 because production costs more. Then it changed to we believe in supporting the PS4 and ps5 with cross gen games and everybody wins because they'll be free upgrades. Ignore that cross gen games cost less on PS4. And then it changed to £10 ps5 upgrade fees...people start questioning that so it changed to buy the whole game again. They knew that wouldn't go down well...so now the conversation is spun to 'we care. We're listening'....and goes back to £10 upgrade fees...and has everybody relieved it's not £70 repurchase. And forget that the reality is these exact same games are still £10 more on ps5 - meaning you're actually expected to be thankful for paying £10 extra for games that use the ps5 hardware they sold you on the promise that games would use the hardware. And the crazy thing is....people actually are thankful and make excuses for the price difference and upgrade costs.

Yeah, but ps5 version in still 70 and 4 is 60. As there is a free upgrade, I could buy ps4 steelbook edition ( comes with the game, a steelbook, and a mini art book) or you could pay the same price for just the game , but with ps5 branding.

Good. They did the right thing to fix their mistake.

The way I read it is if you want to play on PS4 and have the "Free" upgrade, you still need to buy the digital deluxe or collectors as these are the only cross version options according to their new FAQ.

Can I upgrade my Horizon Forbidden West PS4 version to the PS5 version?

"To access both the PS4 and PS5 versions of Horizon Forbidden West, you need to purchase the Digital Deluxe, Collector’s, or Regalla Editions. Dual entitlement does not apply to the Standard and Special Editions."

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/horizon-forbidden-west-support/

@Scarla88 That information is now outdated. The free PS4 to PS5 upgrade covers all versions.

@LiamCroft

Ah ok, its just it says the same thing on the new blog post and the faq. Thanks.

I’m buying the 60$ Ps4 version to get the free upgrade even though I already got a ps5 thanks pushsquare. I can scam Sony now .

That was quick

Great to see Sony making the right move for there fans. Now let's get hyped for Thursday!

@4kgk2 People just got you a cheaper price and yet you're still passive aggressively salty. A remarkable feat really.

Glad to see Sony change their mind.

I wonder if Guerrilla are behind Sony’s change of heart? Must be frustrating to have your game marred in such controversy.

Whatever the reason, I’m glad they backtracked. Especially when they already promised a free upgrade initially.

They’ve also clarified the position going forward for future releases (I still don’t agree with it but at least they’re being clear).

Did we know God of War Ragnarok was going to be cross-gen? I must have missed that announcement previously. How disappointing.

Still going to get the PS5 version. I don't think people want to hear what I think about it and its abit obsolete now anyway but its good for those who didn't like what they saw. For me and maybe for others getting on the platform of choice is worth the extra 10 and I'm sure it will be amazing.

@nessisonett If only that were true cough PS Plus cough 🤣

Look at all the messes since "we believe in generations" last year. Put it all together. Since Jim took over, it has been one nonsense after the other. The worst PlayStation boss ever and he's not a full year in yet in charge of a new generation. He's what happens when you put a "totally" corporate suit in charge of PlayStation. You get mix messaging, dead silence and testing to see how much ***** you can get away with. People say it's not just him but he's the common denominator here.

I will be getting the PS4 version and upgrading to save myself $10. I am not sorry for doing it, either.

At this point, Sony should just sell the PS5 version for $60 because I am sure a ton of people will be taking the same path.

@PlatinumGamer if I had a PS5, the OCD in me would definitely be torn between saving £10 and having an odd PS4 game in a row of PS5 games on my shelf 🤣

I’m glad I don’t have to make that decision 😁

Nice work. Now, about that Digital Edition in the collectors edition Jim..

@GamingFan4Lyf they’ll be hoping many people won’t realise and I imagine many won’t. They’ll just buy the PS5 version not knowing about any of this.

I enjoy Playstation, but oh boy are Sony a terrible company. They will try to get away with as much as they can, and its just exhausting at this point. They can also stick their director's cut line of games up the wazoo as well.

@GamingFan4Lyf thinking about to switch my preorder from Ps5 to the PS4 version, too, simply to save 10 EUR.

Good! Now we should complain about the price increase see if it sticks x)

I knew enough backlash would work, 9 times out of 10 it always does

@Ah-Void I don’t know... I keep hearing the Dualsense is a game changer... 😏

It’s crazy to think Sony could have just released the Dualsense for the PS4 and skipped this entire console gen 🤣

Im perfectly happy with the PS4 Pro graphics and I don’t mind loading screens 🤷‍♂️

This was never really an issue for me because I was always going with the highest edition when it was announced anyway. The Raglia statue will look awesome next to my Horizon ZD CE.

Glad others will be getting the free upgrade though.

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife To be perfectly honest, I’ve been to so many protests that nothing actually comes of that I’m just a bit done in by it. Not often it actually pays off.

@zupertramp congrats! the complaints won out! yay!

@fR_eeBritney same I'd love to just buy the dualsense & use it on my PS4 pro it's the only feature of the ps5 I actually care about

Great news. They might as well charge the PS5 version the same as the PS4 version because what's stopping us buying the cheaper version and getting the upgrade free?

I’m still a Sony fan but this kind of back and forth stuff is getting old. Glad they made the right decision but I think this generation the PS5 will be my exclusive machine some time down the road. And the Series X will be my main console for now.

Happy for everyone who will buy a PS5 in the future. And like some already said, we can "save" 10$ buying the PS4 version to play it on PS5. For me and my digital only games, it's a no brainer (don´t feel bad for a bit for saying it).

@WallyWest Yep, physical version buyers would thank that.

That was fast.

I think Sony is testing the waters of the market with a lot of their decisions in order to get a sense of how far they can push consumers before people bite back. Which is why it's important to voice discontent when it matters.

Well, back to my original plan to grab this day one on PS4.

@fR_eeBritney Having now had my PS5 for nearly two months i don't think i would want to go back to the PS4. Insane loading speeds and nearly every game offering 60fps in some form is fantastic. You also have games like Returnal and R&C what would be too compromised on the PS4 to be as great as they are on PS5. Its a great console and hopefully the upcoming showcase can reveal some actual exclusives.

Thank you Sony! We your fans will continue to support you when you listen!!! Long live King Sony and the global PlayStation empire!!!

Sony and MS both do this. Make a decision, put it out there to see what they can get away with, then reverse course if there's enough outcry. Good to see the PS playerbase called bs on the original plan and good that Sony is being transparent about future upgrades.

So they backtracked on this one game, but are announcing all future titles will cost to upgrade. Considering it's free on Xbox, this isn't good news.

So now it’s a free upgrade to PS5 from the PS4 version. So…why would anyone buy the more expensive PS5 version?

Cool! That was a quick turnabout.

Now they can put physical discs in those expensive collectors editions, right? Right?!

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife Tbh I’m not really sure how to vote with my wallet when it comes to Pride and stuff but I can turn out for a march 😂

"... PlayStation first-party exclusive cross-gen titles will offer a digital upgrade option from PS4 to PS5. This will apply to the next God of War and Gran Turismo 7 ..."

GT7 definitely cross-gen. Don't need a PS5 now.

@Steel76 “ So, I wonder what the fanboys (who defended Sony about paying for the upgrade) have to say now”

Thank you.

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife Eh, my area has become a crazy centre for transphobia so I try where I can. Sometimes just showing up for an afternoon picketing with my trans pals who’re facing genuine discrimination does something rather than nothing. Feels like you’re talking to a brick wall most of the time though. Hence the frustration.

Nice, I like sony listening its fan for once 😃

@Gamer83 yeah, Sony could have just told us to #dealwithit 👀😂

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife Alrighty.

I guess Sony is figuring let's take the L now and let PS5 users buy the PS4 version so they can get the new game for cheaper so they can point back this in the future to say "We said $10 upgrades for everything after Horizon so please stop asking for a free upgrade and $70 is the new standard."

An interesting turn of events. I wasn't bothered by it since I'm fortunate enough to have a PS5 but I'll take the cheaper price every chance I get!

@WallyWest yeah I get that. I’ve been using the PS3 recently and I could probably make a freshly pressed coffee and pancakes (from scratch) by the time the trophies have synched. It’s hard going back once your accustomed to the new but I’m fine sticking with the PS4 Pro for now. I’ll probably wait another 18 months - 2 years before upgrading to the 5 (if my Pro can hang in there 😰🤞).

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife It’s shocking the way JK is being treated but at least she’s not harping on about Brexit anymore 🙄

Silver linings and all that 😂

"...it’s abundantly clear that the offerings we confirmed in our pre-order kickoff missed the mark."

Saying you "missed the mark" infers there was an attempt to f***ing hit it. No, what you did was try to fleece and screw over your customers, and rightly got called out for it. You know what you did and you did it on purpose, no excuses.

"Last year we made a commitment to deliver free upgrades for our cross-gen launch titles" and "...moving forward, PlayStation first-party exclusive cross-gen titles (newly releasing on PS4 & PS5)–both digital and physical*–will offer a $10 USD digital upgrade option from PS4 to PS5."

Notice anything...out of the ordinary...perhaps even contradictory about those two statements? A $10 upgrade isn't f***ing FREE, is it now? Seems that wasn't much of a "commitment", was it?

I love PS, it will always be my primary console of choice, but, man...Jim Ryan sucks and Sony has been not so slowly regressing to their "We're golden gods" attitude of the PS3 era, and that sucks, too. I don't mind that game prices have gone up, they should have gone up a long time ago, what makes me mad as hell is when companies play fast and loose with the expectations THEY set. If you made a commitment to provide free upgrades for cross-gen games, they F**KING HONOR THAT COMITMENT, otherwise your words mean nothing and we can't/shouldn't trust anything you say.

Moments like this are why it's important to speak up.

@GeneJacket if the ps4 copy costs 60$ then then the 10$ makes sense if the ps5 copy is 70$ other wise why bother making a ps5 copy of the game if no ones buying the ps5 copy.

@fR_eeBritney Lol yeah. Next-gen basically starts around 2023 or 2024 after the new GOW comes out.

Wait… that statement about “free upgrades for launch titles”… am I missing something or is that a retcon? I don’t recall the “free upgrade” stuff being in any way stated to be limited to launch titles only…

Either way the $10 upgrade stinks and it should simply be $70 everywhere if they are so set on charging $70.

@twitchtvpat The PS5 upgrade is free for HFW, $10 for every other 1st party game moving forward.

As to why the PS5 disc costs more...development costs for the PS5 features and basic manufacturing costs for the discs. PS4 uses standard 50Gb dual-layer blu-ray discs, PS5 uses 100Gb BDXL discs. They expected us to roll over and take whatever they gave us, but we didn't, so they'll eat that cost this time but it's why they're not going to honor that commitment to free cross-gen upgrades, hence the tacked on $10 upgrade.

Wow, I was not expecting Sony to make such a turnaround. This is great! Thank you, Sony. Although I already own a PS5 and will probably only download the PS5 version anyways, I’m happy for the many others who don’t yet own a PS5, but want the upgrade option for later down the road when they can get one. I also think the whole, going forward, it will cost $10 to upgrade, is fair enough. It might be disappointing to some, but I personally think it’s fair as long as they stay true to those words.

This is a huge win for the whole PS fanbase. I'm glad Sony listen this time. But I wonder if the pre-order count for the standard and deluxe edition was lower than they expected. So, they reverse their decision and not really because of the backlash.

I don't have a problem with this. I see a lot of people saying they're going to buy the cheaper PS4 ver and get the free upgrade. Seems a bit underhanded to me.

And I wouldn't have an issue paying $10 for the Witcher 3 next Gen upgrade. I bought it for PS4, it's an old game, if they're paying devs to upgraded it for PS5, I think it's unreasonable to demand it for free. I'm happy to get it for free, but I wouldn't bitch if I had to throw a few coins to the Witcher.

Can we complain about ps plus now? So we can get better offerings every month lol

Well, that's that, I guess. Gee, sure wish Ryan would take a damn hint and stop pissing everyone off the first time, but...

In any case, I'd like to take this moment to thank all the defenders and Sony shills for telling us to shut up and get over it. Thank you for not being loud and influential enough that this backtrack might never have happened.

And let's hope the game is worth it..

Yay!!! Good to see some nugget of fairness.

@art_of_the_kill Guess what? Those same people are saying we're scamming Sony now out of the $20 "upgrade fee". Sometimes, I wonder If those people are stock holders at Sony and that's why they're advocating for unreasonable higher price.

I mean where else can you see consumers asking corporations to charge them more instead of giving them fair and reasonable price or a better deal.

For all anyone knows it was just a miscommunication with their marketing team, and nothing more. Don't go celebrating about how complaining here on Push Square changed their minds, as if Sony pays any attention at all to this place. Those saying "told ya" about the $10 upgrades, guess what, those aren't new either.

Glad to see them making the right call in the end. As the platform holder they should be the ones making the transition from ps4 to ps5 as easy as possible. It’s good to know that if I don’t have a ps5 by February I can still pick up the ps4 copy and upgrade later on.

While obviously Sony still deserves criticism for this ever becoming an issue in the first place, I'm also going to take the win and be happy that they actually did end up listening and reversing course. Also, while the $10 upgrade path isn't the most ideal option (obviously Xbox did it best with Smart Delivery), at least everything is clear now and there shouldn't be another case of the Horizon 2 fiasco happen again.

At the end of the day, as I've said before, I'm more concerned about enjoying my PS5 and the games rather than get worked up over this. Yes, again, they deserved to be criticized and they aren't all of a sudden an amazing consumer friendly company. I'll be continuing to consider myself lucky to even have a PS5 though.

xbox smart delivery is free, now they just need some games.

@nessisonett change things? It was purely a set up to hide their future game plan under the guise of us having an impact. The media spins it as outrageous, people complain, they react by saying we won’t screw you this time, just every other time in the future going forward.

Not only that, they masterfully split the community into two camps, creating their own free army of shills. They won, and are laughing.

@sonicmeerkat the games are coming, no worries, and once they come xb players will not have to calculate and recalculate. It's: you buy a game, you can play it on any of the SKUs the game is supporting. I am so glad I went into XB at the tail end of previous gen and continued to do the same in this gen.
XBSX has become my main console (not by some conscious choice, it's just where I game more often than anywhere else) with PS5 sitting idle until there's a Sony exclusive I care about.
Smart Delivery is for the players. Sony's utter mess of which version you should get, director's cut pay wall rubbish and all the rest is for the payers.

@uptownsoul Microsft didnt try to double the price of gold they wanted to change the monthly price from £6.99 to £7.99 and as the games with gold are consistently awful there was push back because people thought they were going to actually get rid of gold not increase its price.

@Gaming_Heretic_Aoife hahaha! Nice find. He'd make a great/terrible politician.

Reminds me of "I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic"

What I said:

"naruballThu, 5:46pm

If there is enough backlash, they will reconsider."

Some of the reactions I got:

Col_McCaffertyThu, 7:39pm

@naruball Yeah send enough death threats and I'm sure they'll reconsider.

🤦

UromastryxFri, 9:02am

@naruball they won't because many many people will still pay for it I can guarantee it.
And that is the sad reality is seems so many people are in agreement with you and take their stand " I won't unless they lower the price or wait for a sale etc" and the countless forums that will appear about it but in comparison to how many will pay it won't even be noticeable"

@get2sammyb This isn't an elementary mistake from a team of inexperienced people from a small company, rather they're being very EA and trying to see where they can push the fan base. Jim Ryan himself has changed his stance as many times as a politician would.

I'm glad they reversed this decision but still disagree with the 10$ upgrade to ps5. Firstly it's a cross gen game and they need to justify the price increase. GoT Directors Cut was a good example of how it wasn't justified

@Bleachedsmiles I find their arguments truly bizarre, I just bought a new GPU and all my games still cost the same amount of money. They keep banging on about higher quality assets etc but PC have had these for a long time and never charged more, so how is it that these poor console developers (who we know are making record profits) need that extra money to be able to afford to do the same

@munstre The more time they spend online surrounded by other angry gamers, the more they feel like they must be right to be outraged over every single thing. These angry comments don't surprise me one bit any more.

I'm happy things worked out for ps4 owners...however i dont ever recall sony saying that all ps4 games will receive a free ps5 upgrade at all..i think that all the games that have received said updates so far have because all most have done is increase resolution,frame rates and in some cases loading times..we have been very lucky to get upgrades for free such as doom eternal and a couple of other titles that have actually been rebuilt to include ray tracing..lets not go into the native ps5 games we get for free with ps+ each month...so in all fairness if you own a ps4 and buy a ps4 version of a game and then want the enhanced ps5 edition when the ps4 eventually stops having games made for it would you rather pay £10 or rebuy at £70? Now i think its a much fairer position to be in...let the "you are a fanboy/shill/hypocrite" insults begin from the usual suspects...

@munstre Sony doesn't need to follow a fixed budget for their games.If creating games have become more expensive each generation. How come there are still indie developers?

@BrainHacker your comment makes no sense...how come if the car manufacturing industry churns out lambos and mclarens each year there are still skodas and ladas?

@BrainHacker indie developers don't make AAA games. The average gamer couldn't care less about most indie games. They only care about some exceptions that become hits (like Hades).

If you read any reviews of AA (or even AAA) games, you'll see how unforgiving reviewers are over graphics. You are only allowed to make 8/16-bit games as an indie developer or AAA with enormous budget as any other studio. There's pretty much nothing in between. Hence all the "looks like a ps3 game" comments.

@naruball careful you may upset the reviewers of some games that knock the graphics..sorry i meant constructivley critique the graphics..

Cool. Ps4 version for me.

Does anyone think Sony may be smarter than we give them credit for. By back tracking on this they now get criticism free $10 upgrades on subsequent games. Maybe that was the plan all along?

@TheDudeElDuderino I agree with you to an extent. I think Sony are playing a dangerous game thinking they are safe, but if they get enough bad publicity while their console is so hard to find, people may get tired of waiting. Sony have a great launch line up but if ms can get a few games out before the masses can get their hands on the console then what good does it do?

Setting a bad precedent here. Consumers will be grateful but keep feeding the animals...

Edit: The $10 upgrade makes sense. I was under the impression that we’d be able to buy the PS4 version and just upgrade to the PS5 version free. Thus making the purchase of the PS5 version absolutely unnecessary. I stand corrected.

Well that confirms the next GOW war will be held back by cross gen just like Horizon FW is.

Great to see they listened! But what about the collector's edition and Regalla edition copy of the game, will it still be digital?

@Northern_munkey
What? The budget for each game is set by the developer. So, the argument that game production is getting more expensive each year to justify the price hike is ridiculous.

@naruball
I know that indie developers doesn't create AAA games. All I'm saying is that if game development had become too expensive to produce each generation. How come indie devs can still survive the industry without a price increase?

Yeah. The average console gamer right now prioritize graphics over anything else. But I think there is enough niche market for devs to make money without the Hollywoodesque production. Just look at Nintendo.

Right, that's that one done. What can we all whinge about next?

Good for everyone who wanted this, shows they do listen to the costumers. I never really thought it was a big deal. I mean, I never got a free upgrade when I jumped from ps one to PS2, or from PS2 to PS3, or any free upgrades from PS3 to PS4. Same with Nintendo, Sega and Microsoft consoles. I just bought the version that I wanted. And if I wanted the next gen version I just waited until I owned the console. Don't really get why this is a big deal this time. Seems like the world got cranky lately.

@nessisonett As long as you complain and don't buy the game until the problem is fixed.

@Martijn87 Yeah, but cross gen games weren't as much of a thing then, so the chance to double-dip wasn't really there.

It still irks me that God of War and Grab Turismo will be the new "norm" of a price point that has stopped me from picking up Ratchet and Clank. Sure I can grab it on sale now but I'm planning to get it once it's offered at the price that Demon's Souls is now. I can wait, the games aren't going anywhere.

@AhmadSumadi If Sony want the PS5 release to be 100% necessary, they should stop doing the cross gen thing.

@BrainHacker indie devs dont have the unlimited budget AAA studios have and this reflects in the quantity/quality that indi devs put out...therefore they are already working to a budget within those rising costs whereas the big "hollywood" game devs dont care about rising costs as they just pass it on to the consumer..therefore i stand by my inital comment that yours makes no sense..

@Northern_munkey I'm surprised that it's so universal, though. Like most (if not all) reviewers giving a pass to indie games, while heavily criticizing anything that doesn't look like God of War. There should be some middle ground. Thankfully, many gamers get that (free Britney posted something similar).

Wooooooooooooooooooooow!

Don’t want to get the game anyway. Not my cup'o'tea.

@Northern_munkey You're comment doesn't make sense at all. AAA games doesn't have unlimited budget. There is no guaranteed that a game will be commercially successful just because it has Hollywoodesque production.

Game devs cannot just pass the production cost of their games to the consumer, and increase the market value of their game against the standard price based on their budgets alone. Why do you think there are games stuck in developmental hell?

@JapaneseSonic Maybe they should just merge this site with their sister sites and be done with it. That would be fun.

🙄

If you can't act like a bit of a PS fanboy on a PS site, where can you?

😝

Sony are not above criticism and the PS isn't perfect BUT my God, you'd think they were forcing people at gun point to buy and play their games. That Jim Ryan has sent some big men with baseball bats to every house and promised to return if the residents don't buy a PS5.

I don't know man, maybe it's just a generational thing but I don't remember gaming in general being as toxic as it currently is.

@BrainHacker but this is what they are saying..that rising costs in producing games means that the cost to the consumer is rising hence that is "passing a certain amount of the rising costs" on to the consumer thus regaining a percentage back...maybe i was a bit ott about unlimited budgets being handed out so i will hold my hands up..my bad...but your initial comment still makes no sense..

@naruball 🤘

Shoulda stayed committed Sony to your dream of rolling over your consumer's 😂

@naruball "If you read any reviews of AA (or even AAA) games, you'll see how unforgiving reviewers are over graphics"

I'd have more sympathy if it weren't publishers and gamers who created that situation.

Publishers, Sony especially, have been using graphics as a primary selling point for decades. And gamers, both hardcore and casual, have very superficial standards when it comes to how they judge games. On this very site, a gameplay teaser was shown. The game was pretty standard in terms of gameplay, but had really beautiful, high standard of detail, and of course people automatically jumped to calling it a masterpiece and Goty. So I'm not surprised that reviewers have this stupidly high standard to what devs and gamers expect.

Likewise though, publishers and gamers have the ability to not participate in the graphical Arms race.

Nintendo obviously do not do so, and have still done well and made great games regardless.

MS kinda haven't, when you consider the Series S and their streaming service. I don't think the series X was at all necessary but they did it because they could. Even in terms of MS games, not many achieve, or even try to achieve, a ridiculous standard of graphical fidelity. And Pyschonauts 2 has proven it's not needed.

Sony didn't need to make the PS5 powerful. They'd obviously catch a lot of flack because they've billed their last two generations as being the most powerful, so they have most definitely trained their fanbase to expect it, but honestly, as long as it was marketed as a positive change, and apart from the "vocal minority", people wouldn't complain and they'd still be brand loyal to playstation, and they'd still buy it, and they'd still praise it's single player experiences as being unbeatable (and given the aforementioned Pyschonauts, and dozens of Switch games, I'd expect reviewers would too).

If you're in that group complaining about the game being released on PS4 alongside PS5, do your research before popping off. The game was originally and primarily developed for and on PS4. Then upgraded I'd assume in preparation for the PS5 release too.

@Martijn87

You cant really compare past consoles to the PS5/Xbox series x.

There were hardware limitations with the old consoles compared to the newer ones which are designed to bring over the previous gen to this gen and make it easy and seemless according to Mark Cerny himself .

But the messaging has been way too complicated more than once now since the PS5 launch and no one is to be blamed other than Sony .

The Uproar is Sony made a promise on their blog to the 120 million PS4 users that if they purchased the ps4 version of the game whether its Spiderman Miles morales , Sackboy adventure or Horizon forbidden west they would get a free upgrade . but sony has now decided because they said launch and horizon had to be delayed to next year ( missing its launch window ) Sony used that has a loophole to charge people .

at the end of the day Sony were banking on the idea people double dipping buying Horizon Forbidden West on the ps4 then buying it on the ps5 again .

@daveofduncan i'm pretty sure that somwhere back in the mists of time that the devs said it was being developed for both platforms together and that our minds would be blown if we could see what the ps5 was capable off..thst dosnt sound like its a ps4 game being ported over to me...

Everyone who stuck to their guns, I applaud you for voicing your disgust in this anti-consumer action Sony were going to blatantly do to us. Well done to all of you! We, the customers, have the power, not the corporations. Without us they get nothing!

For those of you who defended this. SHAME ON YOU! you are part of the problem.

@Northern_munkey Just look at this way. We shouldn't pay more, if the production cost of the game exceeds the budget set by the developer since it's not our fault.

It is actually more reasonable for third party devs to increase the price of their games because they are paying 30% to platform holders like Sony and MS.

Anyway, we are going in circles in here. Let's just agree to disagree.

Finally something we can both agree on 👊

@Shepherd_Tallon It's the in thing to be angry all the time at something. I'm just looking forward to playing the game, can't be bothered with that nonsense.

@JapaneseSonic Hopefully the event will create more buzz than ire, I'm looking forward to it for sure and then I can talk about what I've seen with yourself and others in the more civilized forums.

@Col_McCafferty I always thought they should just merge and become a multi platform site.

Even though I only have a PS5 I'm still interested in what the competition is up to. I have to many other hobbies and a backlog of PS games to even consider getting a switch or Xbox but it does cross my mind from time to time. I often wonder how people who own all systems have time to read/go outside/work/sleep etc etc...

Quite possibly a generational thing, but as people spend more and more time online we just see it more than when we were younger. Glad I was all grown up before proper cameras and social media were common place, young people today can't surely have much fun. My friends and I wouldn't have done half the crazy stuff we got up to or it would have been posted everywhere within minutes for all to see.

Sorry for the long post went off on a bit of a tangent there!

@daveofduncan https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/horizon_forbidden_west_built_from_the_ground_up_for_ps5

@JapaneseSonic
I don't defend Games as a Service. I don't buy digital games I always have and always will buy physical.
But that is an entirely different situation. This action from Sony is indefensible and no matter how much you try, even when changing the subject, this cannot be defended.

Demand better or get taken advantage of.

@MightyDemon82 I think the idea in having separate sites was to try and shut down some of the console war bs and create a place where people could talk about their love of gaming on a specific platform. Maybe that worked once but over time this site in particular has just become a place which attracts a lot of trolls and the inevitable arguments that come with this.

Then there are those select few who see themselves as almost being Guardians of the Old Ways and aren't shy in boring us with tales of how Sony were better in the past and how 'casuals' have ruined gaming but PlayStation in particular.

I don't know, isn't there enough variety out there to suit all tastes? I think there is. How arrogant to assume every game should be made to suit one's own tastes and preferences.

Someone above be claiming if you didn't bitch and moan about the original decision then you're part of the problem. How arrogant. If all he did was complain on this site then he did sod all either. Really naive to think anything written on this site has any extra meaning or importance.

Either join the witch hunt or you must be a witch. I'm getting bored of typing that but it's really true.

I’m glad I made comments regarding my stance on Sony’s original decision. And this is why. Stop giving Sony consent to stick it in you when it hurts. Not going to name names but jeez some people love defending Sony.

Will that collectors edition now get a disc release too or is it still the case with download code?

@nessisonett normal people change things with wallet vote - and if it's trumped by the wallets of other, still interested audiences, they have the ability to shrug and move on to a more financially appealing product/hobby, from one entertainment ultimately optional for their lives to another. Fanship and consumerist mentalities are a different story, of course. They like to buzz about everything like it's communal services or politics on the scale of importance. And anyone less than cripplingly addicted to the subject of contention is apologist sheeple in their eyes.

Gun meet Foot,
They state Last year we made a commitment to deliver free upgrades for our cross-gen launch titles with Horizon being one of them then quickly say God of War and GT will be payable to upgrade, Wasn't God of War slated for a 2021 release date before they pushed it back and wasn't GT meant to be a launch title before it was pushed back to work on a ps4 version. ?

@Col_McCafferty
You say I'm "arrogant" for stating people defending Sony's actions are part of the problem and I "did sod all".

All it takes is one person talking about it to spread the word, Sony may not look at this site but we are not limited by it. People here talk, they also talk elsewhere (as I did, not just here as you think). This raises awareness that when enough people call out these blatant anti-consumer actions across enough social online platforms that it reaches the ears of these corporations, as it did, to force change for the better. I have a PS5 so this meant no difference to me, but should I blindly accept them treating PS4 owners with that disgusting practice? No, because it's wrong.

It's not a sense of entitlement either, £/$10 is marginally acceptable to upgrade to new and better features but forcing a second purchase on people not lucky enough to be part of the new generation yet when they initially spoke of cross-gen upgrades is unacceptable.

Remember Battlefront 2? All it takes is gamers coming together to make change for the better. Again, I'm not saying we should be "entitled" to anything or everything ridiculous but when we are blatantly being taken advantage of we should speak up.

I'm not disingenuous, I'm not picking a fight here. And I don't disagree with some of the points you've made in this thread but to call me "arrogant" without considering the bigger picture is not fair. I, as one person, did as much as any one person can in spreading the word everywhere I could think of because my sense of morality couldn't let it lie.
When you said that this site is, in so many words, driving a wedge between PlayStation fans, I agree, they are and we should be coming together but I can't understand how anyone can defend what they planned to do from a customer standpoint.

@Shepherd_Tallon I get what you’re saying. But the problem isn’t with those that aren’t concerned by things and therefore don’t comment.

The problem is with the comments actively defending these practices. The more they do it, the more others have to complain to be the louder voice. If Sony is seeing comments/tweets/general buzz and it’s all in their defence; why should they bother changing?

@GADG3Tx87 But I wrote comments stating that I thought the decision sucked and I hoped Sony would change their minds. They have done so let's move on.

It's interesting you mention Battlefront 2. You're correct in saying that there was a backlash and they made changes BUT the problem was a very vocal subset of gamers still went on and on about the original decisions and BF 2 struggled to lose its reputation as a bad game. The fact was they regularly updated and improved that game, adding new characters and maps and tweaking weapons and stuff and it was a brilliant MP for Star Wars fans. I played it for over two years before finally putting it down when I got the Platinum. To some gamers though the damage had already been done but I had a great time with it and tbh it remains the only online MP that I have ever really taken to.

Constructive criticism is one thing but a lot of the discourse is anything but and targeting individuals for not joining the witch hunt is not a good look.

The only reason Sony changed it's mind is because they declared something else previously (last year's free upgrades for cross gen public statement), and they risk being opened to law suits.
Without that, all of the complaints people have made would have fallen on deaf ears.
And now they've publicly ensured that moving forward everyone will have to pay 10$ for the PS4 to PS5 upgrade. So all the complaints people will make on this subject, for GOW Ragnarok and other future exclusive titles, will certainly be in vane.

@Col_McCafferty how typical of you. You could simply eat some humble pie and admit you were wrong. Which you were. But nope. Better twist it so that you can keep attacking me.

There is no high horse here. I simply stated that Sony could reverse this decision if enough people complained about it. For some reason you decided to interpret it that I was urging people to send Sony death threats.

But yeah, I'm in the wrong here.

I've been wrong in the past and happily admitted so. Can't say the same about you.

Power to the gamers, well done everybody.

@Col_McCafferty
Maybe I was overly harsh I admit. But perhaps you can understand why, I couldn't understand the thought process of people defending that. Again, I'm not saying we should be entitled, I know I certainly am not entitled to anything but surely somewhere you must feel we were being taken advantage of? I just think it's disgusting since customers are the very reason for any corporations success.

I edited my post above to add, do not mistake it's intent if it came across the wrong way, I'm not trying to pick a fight. And there are several points you've made in this thread that I agree with. It just hurt to be called "arrogant" because I perhaps have a strong sense of morality.

I'm sure it was you (I think) that made a point of this website pretty much driving a wedge between PlayStation gamers and that is true as of late. We shouldn't be at each others throats. And I also don't feel that this site, or PureXbox should write blatant articles about the failures of the other side just to stir the pot for clicks. If I want Xbox news I'll go there (presuming of course it's only Xbox related) and vise versa.

I hope for peace, for all of us in the future and for us all to enjoy talking about PlayStation here, after all this is one of the very few PlayStation only websites left.

@Richnj Yes, Sony has focused on graphics and it makes sense that they are expected to deliver on that. I don't see a problem with it. It's a good selling point. But what about AA developers who can't keep up? My point was about them.

Are we only allowed to have 8/16 bit or AAA games? Sony focuses on graphics because they can. Others don't have that luxury and for some bizarre reason reviewers expect them to have the budget of an AAA game. Sonys'/ MS' focus should not affect how AA games are reviewed. And Sony could make some games with smaller budget if they're not a mainline game of their main IPs. This attitude dissuades them from investing in smaller titles.

The main thing here is we definitely need three healthy games companies, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.
All this back tracking and good will and some consumer friendly stuff is mainly due to the competition.
I think there is no way any of three would be as gracious and consumer friendly if there was no competition about.

Time for the Falcon and winter soldier quote
"You've got to do better (Sony)."

@naruball The death threat comment wasn't aimed specifically at you, just a general observation that when a minority of gamers have complained in the past they have taken it too far.

But in the interests of peace, I will take that back. I just come on here to talk about the games I like man, all the 'politics' wears me out.

@GADG3Tx87 This is the first article I’ve written on the Horizon PS4 to PS5 upgrade situation, and it’s a positive one to say the whole thing has been remedied. Not sure what you’re talking about. 🤷‍♂️

@LiamCroft
Then I humbly and sincerely apologise for that comment, Liam. I may not have correctly noticed.

@GADG3Tx87 Fair enough.

This debate is done, for now but even then offering a free upgrade creates a new problem. Why buy the PS5 copy when you get the same game at a cheaper price by buying the PS5 version which you can then upgrade? There has to be an incentive now to PS5 players!

But what if what they offer isn't seen as justification for the price increase or it's something PS4 owners want as well but aren't eligible for as part of the upgrade option? Maybe then they'll raise a stink about it and then demand the same.

I don't know, it's nice to offer the free upgrade but as Leia once said to Han, "It's not over yet!"

😉

@Shepherd_Tallon LoL the thirst "Partnerships with people like Jade freakin Raymond". Dude, let me know her epic contributions since AC1 so that I could thirst with you.
Had they went with Amy Hennig.. then I could get the excitement. Jade tho... nah, a bussines suit with not much to show for in the last 10 years.

I think calling out hasn't got anything to this. They just checked their previous statements and saw huge risk of being sued for false advertisement. That is why they did another clear statement about future upgrades and prices.

@Col_McCafferty
Yes, I agree and see your point there. Which is why I did say it's marginally acceptable to ask a small fee to upgrade to better features, textures or whatever the case may be, that's not too unreasonable. It just felt wrong to charge people who do not yet have a PS5 full price a second time to have those things.

I myself have bought the standard disc version on PS5 because one thing I dislike about the upgrade process is that it is digital. Which of course there is no other way to do it, I just prefer to have the version I choose as a physical copy.

I do also disagree with their decision about a digital code in the collector's edition. I would have thought that collector's would prefer a physical copy for the purpose of a collection. It seems like a silly decision. But it also occurred to me about the people who bought the all digital edition, what about them?

And then I thought that maybe they think or understand that going all digital means they never intended on ever buying discs or collector's edition in physical form. I just don't know what to think, is it a safety decision incase they buy it and can't use a disc or something else? Not a clue, I just don't get it.

Again, apologies to all if my post came off overly harsh or I caused you, col, any stress or anxiety, this was not my intent and it is sometimes difficult to express yourself over texts. I just didn't see why people were defending a situation where they were clearly being taken advantage of. I love PlayStation and it was something that brought much joy to my childhood in the 90's so to see Sony treat us like that felt awful when I consider the beginnings of PlayStation and how its customers, for the most part, that kept it going.

@Bleachedsmiles Firstly, I just want to say I agree with you. I think Game Pass and PC offer a much better deal. I never buy games full price (I refuse to), and the only reason I'm a PS user is console VR, otherwise I'd be on Xbox already.

Concerning the £10 graphics/DS rumble upgrade, I think the argument often made is that the console as a platform is generally a very closed/unique system architecturally from generation to generation (which has it's strengths and limitations), and isn't as simply scalable as PC. So on PC, a game at launch can be released which will work 10 years ahead with no dev input. Unlike on console. This is my speculation and assumption.

However, I do not think the price hike is justified, owing to the volume of digital sales made directly from online storefront (with very little overheads compared to physical) offering a greater profit margin - and also the fact that the consumer gaming market is objectively way bigger than it's ever been. Gaming devs like Sony, Ubisoft etc. have been enjoying far greater profits even accounting for things like inflation and investments, as evident on their public accounts with no problem whatever. The many arguments for £70 games is completely flawed in my informed opinion.

@munstre Ok...let's assume this is correct. That it takes extra money to offer higher quality assets...so £10 extra cost is considered 'fair'...why did Sony never charge for pro patches? A simple question...did the pro patches cost them a loss to offer ps pro gamers for free?
Now consider pc versions of their games that have graphical settings...do they charge extra to unlock any of those settings?
Now I want you to consider how games are actually made. That these games are not made on ps5...they're made on pcs. They're then optimised for platforms. You've heard the word 'optimised' before I'm sure. This means that those higher resolutions and framerates and texture assets are already there...and downscaled to perform well on ps5, PS4 pro, PS4. They're not spending extra to ensure these cross gen games look better on ps5 - this is what you paid extra for by buying the ps5 console.
Now, lastly, I want you to consider that talking about new 'next gen' only games is one thing...talking about cross-gen games is a different conversation. So telling us what Sony told you that 'the increase to £70 is to offset production values of these games'...why are these exact same games, with the exact same production costs...costing £10 less on PS4?

These are simple questions. Why are pro enhancements free. Why are cross gen games less on PS4?

Ps5 versions are simply making use of the hardware you've already paid £500 to make use of. That's the reality. And I can't see how anybody can consider paying additional £10 to enable them to get higher frame rates, better textures, and make use of the controller...acceptable when you've been charged £500 for these things already.

Lastly. Consider this. Pc graphic options. If offering different graphics options cost publishers a loss then what incentive is there to release games (usually for less than £60rrp) on pc? Why is Sony keen to get into the pc market ifntheyre gonna make a loss on every game because they're not charging £70 for those higher framerates and better textures...as well as controller support?

Let’s not get to carried away they are still charging £70 a PS5 game in the UK on release.
Forza horizon 5 and Halo no matter what console £50 that’s £20 difference.
What Microsoft charge next year is another question with games like Starfield being PC and new generation only who knows at this stage.
Definitely an interesting cost battle ground from the two companies.

Don't see what the big deal is.
There was no such thing as free upgrades on previous generations. Remasters were full price releases and no one complained.

Paying £10 for the upgrade is not much more than paying for a McDonalds, a couple of pints of beer, or one of those funko things.

@naruball Yore right, AAA shouldn't affect AA. I think AA is collateral damage for that AAA graphical arms race.

But it's also why, despite being a heavy critic of 343i and even Halo Infinite, I didn't criticise the graphics when it was shown off. It's why I don't pay much attention to review scores, and especially not the random number dropped at the end. It's also why I have been arguing against Metroid Dread being a full price release. I personally recognise not all games are not made equal, and we should be more informed in what we are buying.

I'm not sure how to change how reviewers operate. I only know to be mindful when I do read a review, and to continue to downplay the importance of scores when one is "problematic".

@carlos82 Yes...because they develope games by aiming high and downscaling. People that defend it seem to believe higher quality textures and framerates are developed specially for ps5 builds.
And then the argument shifts to...'well others are doing it too'...referencing the likes of EAndoing the same...neglecting that of course EA jumped on this if Sony is pushing it...it's EA. If Sony wants charging extra to use ps5 hardware yet EA still was do any of us here think these Sony fanboys would be defending EA?
And if you're gonna use the argument of 'well others are charging for upgrades' then why aren't you also questioning why plenty of others (including far smaller publishers than Microsoft, aren't charging for upgrades?)...
And then...even if you convince yourself that games are so expensive these days that the price increase is warranted...ok, fine, I can understand it and accept it...but then when these EXACT SAME GAMES are released on PS4 (which God of war, gt ect will be) at £60...why does increase production costs only effect ps5 versions of those EXACT SAME GAMES. You're getting no added levels. No different textures. You're paying for what the hardware you already paid for allows.

Well, good move Sony I guess. I mean the outcome is the right one for Horizon and the plan going forward is clearly stated.

I really hope after the show case we get to spend a bit of time and excitement talking about the great things Sony has in store for us all instead of their plans to nickel and dime us and burn their goodwill into the ground.

@nicc83 there was such a thing as cross gen games though. Tell me what the price difference was between same games hitting PS4 that also came out on PS3?

Xbox last gen was 180,Sony this gen is all about backtracking.

Now adjust europe prices last time i check 10€ are not 10$.

Good that they’ve backtracked somewhat, don’t forget they still tried to get away with this, luckily enough people made their voices heard. I still utterly dislike Sony’s direction so far this gen and will not be buying their overpriced games at launch.

‘We believe in generations’ They sure do, they believe in charging you more for their new generation.

@get2sammyb so you feel that having to pay an extra £10 for a higher settings option is right?

@Old-Red
In the UK the cost total is £70 HZDFW PS5.
The competition for Forza Horizon 5 is £49.99
No matter what console.
So that is £20 more in total.
Even the PS4 is £10 more than FH5 at £60.
All prices from Smyths Toys disc boxed games.
Sony are mugging you lot of with
PS4 games at £60 and PS5 at £70

People got what they want. I don't know why people complained in the first place about the upgrade cost because if the difference between the two games is extremely different then paying more than $10 makes sense.

Sony just trying to make back some of those development costs makes sense. $10 is nice but eventually people are going to have to pay more for upgrades. Eventually.

@Fyz306903

Just to name a few: call of duty ghost, assassin's Creed IV, Every sport Game, Tom Raider, the last of us, Zelda twilight princess, breath of the wild, need for speed most wanted. And if you would go even further, basically every remaster within the first 2 years of a console. The only difference is that most of the console had no backwards compatibility. So the real message to every console maker now is to remove any backwards compatibility in future consoles. I'm not defending Sony, they did make a promise and they should keep it no matter the cost. I'm just saying cross gen games weren't a problem in the past so we shouldn't make it the biggest in the world. I rather would have liked to see them only release on the PS5 to really make the most of those games. But considering not everyone is able to get a PS5 now. It's great we have a choice which version we get.

@ATaco Yeah, some people are defending the price increase (because, poor multi-billion dollar industry 👀) but by making all of these games cross-gen, Sony are making way more money than if the games were made exclusively for the PS5 (as they should be at this stage of the current console gen). Having ones cake and eating it too springs to mind.

@BrainHacker I can think of one other off the top of my head... LEGO fans (specifically AFOLs) often make excuses for being ripped off by TLG. I see it all the time online. Putting 18+ on the box suddenly makes it ok for TLG to double the price because they know AFOLs have more disposable income than say, parents with young children. It’s a con most AFOLs seem willing to be taken advantage of.

@nessisonett tou che mate tou che

This will probably result in the future in less cross gen releases. It is also is weird why there is a price different.
Is it supply vs demand? With games, it typically is more a 'demand' issue so more demand on PS5 drives the price up. I also don't think, this is the case.
Perhaps people on PS5 are more willing to pay for it as people who own a PS5 have more money or a more hardcore gamers and thus more willing to pay than people for now staying with a PS4?

Or is it more effort to create the game for PS5 than PS4 and therefore more expensive. If I look at Cyberpunk 2077, I think that's definitely not the case.

I'm really curious, and maybe someone can shed a light?

@LiamCroft God of War Ragnarok?

Not once have Sony or Santa Monica referred to the next God of War as being titled Ragnarok, as evidenced in the PlayStation Blog article that you linked to. Are you still basing this off the fan made logo that they used by mistake a few months back? Because that was retracted and replaced soon after!

To me it doesn’t make sense to have Ragnarok as the middle game if the Norse mythology story arc is going to be a trilogy….makes sense to build it up to the third game - we still have Fimbulwinter to take into account before we actually get to Ragnarok proper!

Might as well only do two games if the next one is Ragnarok because what are they going to do for the third game?

They just need to state this on the standard version on the PSN store as it still says ps4 only.

Oh look at that all that complaining actually worked. Good thing I’ve had a ps5 since launch so none of this matters to me

@JayShaw I think the argument of consoles being a closed and unique architecture was more valid for ps1-3...expecially 3 which was highly criticized by Devs at the time for the 'cell'. Which is why ps4-5 are so much closer to pc.
Also this is why console manufacturers have Dev kits and sell dev kits. The Dev kits help with supporting the controller functionality too. You have to wonder how many here that defend the price hike on cross-gen games would buy a Sony controller that came with the catch that to use it you'll have to spend £10 more everytime you purchase a game. They'll be some crazies that will defend that as a great deal, I'm sure...but fewer than those that will be here defending god of war being £70 on ps5 and £60 on PS4. Because let's be realistic...this is where any sort of extra work is going over the games engines that are designed to support multiple generations of console as well as multiple pc settings.

If the argument wants to be that games cost more to make so it's only fair the price increases...then charge £70 for PS4/pro and pc versions.

I think their only purpose was to make some money from second hand game copies..It would be really easy down the line to grab a ps4 used copy and upgrade it free to play with my ps5..i can do this with death stranding that copies can be found as cheap as 10euros.

Only that isn't the best example, @Bleachedsmiles. Hardware scaling is taken into consideration when creating PC games. Consoles make use of all of the hardware's features to the fullest extent with limited hardware. A PS4 game does not magically transform into a PS5 game due to improved hardware. Without a new SDK that includes the essential changes in the code to take advantage of the new hardware, you won't be able to brute force or completely utilise the new technology. I'm not advocating for Sony to charge for this. The "high" settings debate between consoles and PCs, on the other hand, is not a match made in heaven. To allow the "high" settings on consoles, members of the development and testing teams must dedicate themselves to allow it.

@Alan_cartridge_ These aren't PS4 games. Games don't get made for the lowest powered machine first...they get scaled down. Sony have said themselves that these aren't PS4 games. They are however cross gen games...and being sold cheaper on PS4. Which automatically contradicts the whole "making games is costing more they have to be £70".

good that Sony backtracked for his decision to charge Horizon Forbidden West PS4 version to PS5 version, i hope future PS5 games don't have this problem

@Bleachedsmiles they lowballed us and then expect praise now they have given us a less rubbish deal. This new U-turn after a backlash culture is a horrible PR tool. They believe it doesn’t damage a brand. It does. This U turn doesn’t make me think more of Sony. Less. I own 11 Sony consoles in various forms. I can’t be accused of not being a Sony fan in the first place.

GT7, H:FW, and GOW @Bleachedsmiles First and foremost, we're all built on a PS4 dev kit first. All game design considers the slowest hardware. Sony does not design titles to be downscaled to work on the PS4 they work on the PS4 first. This hasn't changed. Work is then completed to utilise the PS5 features and improve the experience. You can't create a game around the PS5's SSD speeds and then say, "Hey, we'll lower a few settings and have the world with insane pop in and 30 seconds while we wait for it to load." The design limits of HDD storage and CPU are always taken into consideration unless you liked the performance of Cyberpunk who designed the game just like you claim.

@4kgk2 Only for Horizon Forbidden West though the rest is all with a €10 upgrade.

@Bleachedsmiles So you snap your fingers and its a PS5 game?

@fR_eeBritney That's weird af. They will justify their purchase out of brand loyalty, even if they are getting rip off in the process. Double the price for an 18+ Logo? LMAO

@Dezzy70 reading the comments on here over the past few days some people are more than happy to be mugged off.

@Marquez so...

3D audio is also included with PS4 games.

The SSD and faster loading is something that comes with having a better console and we should not have to pay to use it every time we buy a game. The same goes for higher resolutions and frame rates.

Smaller files sizes? Really? You think it's OK to charge extra for that?

Which leaves dual sense implementation. Surely this is something that should just come as standard and be expected when you buy a PS5. You honestly feel OK having to pay an extra £10 to use it? As I've mentioned before, if it was a case of turning on dual sense in the settings menu took you to the store to pay £10 for every single game you buy, you'd be OK with that?

The way they're approaching dual releases has shown them up for the tosh they've been spouting. Fair enough, if it's only a PS5 release I can understand a slightly higher cost at the beginning of a generation, because of the lower customer base. But as soon as they try to get a piece of the PS4 pie they really should concede the extra charge as the game has inevitably been held back on PS5 in order to run on PS4 in the first place.

@Old-Red they’ll be charging us for patches next. And some people will be like... ‘well, developers don’t just fix their games for nothin’ 🤣

So I can buy the cheaper PS4 version, and upgrade to the PS5 version? Surely everybody will just do that and save themselves some pennies?

@Marquez Yeah, I don't think I'll ever agree with the points you make. They seem like standard progression to me and should come part and parcel with buying a new console.

I think the only people who are OK with this are the ones to gain from it by working in the industry, people who have money to burn or journalists who get games for free or can claim the costs back in tax. It's simply shafting everyone else.

Either way, they have soured my excitement for this game now. Instead of looking forward to its release, I'm now happy to wait for a second hand copy of the definitive version. Hopefully enough other people will do the same so they have to rethink the prices this gen. We've seen here how quickly they back track, it really wouldn't take much to make them do the right thing.

@Col_McCafferty
I don't know where you when during the 3DS vs Vita days but THAT was toxicity. Especially since it happened on message boards like GameFaqs which weren't as well moderated. Gaming has always been this toxic, even back to the old schoolyard arguments of Nintendo vs Sega.

That being said, being critical of things and always wanting more is our right as consumers. If there wasn't any backlash you'd be paying those $10 to upgrade. Now, you don't have to. It's a win and I don't see why we shouldn't continue to voice our displeasure since ultimately it's our money and Game companies should be working hard to earn it. Sometimes I feel like people have lost the value of the dollar since they seem more and more willing to just throw money away unnecessarily.

3d audio in not a gimmick though..i feel that every ps5 game sounds better than ps4 maybe due to the ssd that can stream less compressed and bigger audio files.

@Hardcore_Holly Not only that, but you're getting two copies of the game of you buy digitally for PS4 but only one of you buy for PS5. In a multiple console house with a PS5 and another PlayStation, you can have two people playing both versions at the same time, whereas if you buy the PS5 version, there's only one license, so IIRC somebody gets kicked off.

The £60 purchase gives you more than the £70 purchase, unless they backtrack again and say you get a PS4 copy free with the PS5 version.

@sonicmeerkat not every game supports smart delivery just first party games and some 3rd party.

@munstre I'd say that actually it's fine to charge the same for the PS4 version as the PS5 version, as long as your purchase allows you to play the game on the other console generation.

If the game was developed for both generations on the same production budget, I feel like you can argue that it's the same thing and the level of experience you get depends on your hardware. Upgrade for the best experience, or put up with a reduced experience for now, and take advantage of the extra features when you do upgrade. The only time I think there should be a price difference, is when the next generation upgrades were developed after release. That's extra work that wasn't part of the original budget, and you can either charge more for it, or write it off as public relations spend.

The way things are at the moment, publishers are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and it ends up as a tax on early adopters.

This is the prime example of why constructive (and vocal) criticism is healthy for the entire gaming community. Kudos to Sony for backtracking on their predatory practice, and hopefully they stay on track with being a consumer-friendly company. Time will tell.

So are they dropping the PS5 game price to £60? Bit mental if not.

@Marquez "Negligible load times due to the ultra fast SSD
...and almost certainly, a smaller install size versus the PS4 version."

I thought these were inherent benfits of an SSD, not something that requires extra time and money to impliment.

"All of these improvements requires man hours that need to be paid for."

At an estimated profit of $300m, I think HZD covered these extras. You argue that extra cost is required as if these games have a thin profit pargin. I expect HFW to have massive profits too, without the extra charge.

Is this topic still going? I thought it would have been done and dusted by now..

@Northern_munkey if my comment come across like that like apologies. I was simply referring to the fact that the game devs HAD PS4 in mind prior to the game being announced. I'm in no way saying the PS5 version is a port.

No worries i just wasnt sure myself and thought i'd share that snippet with you in case you had been misinformed..

@Richnj Although we benefit from the SSD automatically, getting the best out of it does involve additional work. So extra code specifically for the PS5, which would need testing and maintaining in addition to the PS4 code.

I guess it's not just about the money, also the time available to get it done.

@Marquez No, gross revenue was $400m

https://www.thathashtagshow.com/2020/12/22/alleged-twitter-leak-god-of-war-made-half-a-billion-horizon-zero-dawn-made-400-million/

Which was 8 million sales, and of which, 35% was digital, meaning less built in costs for Sony, a platform holder, to pay out. I picked $300m because it's minus the $100m it cost to make and advertise.

@Alan_cartridge_ Jim Ryan himself has said that these ps5 versions were built from the ground up to take advantage of the ps5 hardware. What does that mean when the exact same game is released on PS4? Like you said...you can't create a game that takes full advantage of the SSD and expect it to just run on PS4 if the game was designed around using an SSD. I'm not suggesting you can. These are CROSS PLATFORM games. So how are these games being designed to take advantage of the ps5 hardware?...one would assume the benefits the ps5 version will offer will be hardware based if not design based (as they are being designed to work on PS4 too correct?)...which mean what? That the SSD will simple do what an SSD is made to do (faster loading times), and the visuals will differ by having higher resolutions, and maybe some extra bells and whistles the development tools allow...and the framerate will be doubled. These are things afforded by the more powerful hardware. These are things you see on/off switches for in pc games. Should these things have an addional £10 extra cost for the ps5 versions? The game is fundamentally the same. And games are always scaled down to be optimised. You've never seen the term 'downgraded' used before towards a game that looked good when first revealed but not of the same quality when released? It's because they make those high-quality textures ect first...then lower the resolution of them till the thing runs stable on the weaker hardware.

See this is the thing. There's a difference between designed for and optimised for. This is why people kicked out at Sony backtracking over 'we believe in generations' - it limits games at a design level.

@munstre I have no idea how easy 'scaling up' would be. Scale down. That's easier. Again, like I said to the last guy, these games are cross-gen...they're designed with being able to work on PS4 in mind...but they won't finish the PS4 version and then starting working on the ps5 version. They'll be working on the ps5 version and scaling that down to work for the PS4. Because at a design level the games will be exactly the same. Visually they'll be optimised differently.
You state Extra Dev time and money to optimise...and then say resolution boost and framerate are easy... I understand any time you spend working on a game costs a publisher money. But is that really worth £10 extra charge when games looking better and running faster is why you paid for new hardware to begin with?
Cross gen games aren't offering you anything that couldn't be done on the PS4 remember.

Sony will release more of their games on pc. They've invested in a studio especially to deal with this. And the games won't be years apart with their pc ports either...regardless of how much you want to tell yourself they will. So when games start hitting PC 6 months after the ps5 versions...with better graphical features...for £60 whilst they still push £70 ps5 price tags...on top of MP paywalls...will you question the extra charge?

Toxic fanbase saves the day!
Dumb decision from Sony on the first place (they did always say launch titles but oh well) but I hope this doesn´t create a precedent for entitled fans to complain about every little thing they don't like, like Snydercut fans that think they can flame and troll to get what they want. Ugh, man.

@arsmolinarc you can “hope” all you want. The world today is exactly what you think it is and exactly what you “hope” won’t happen will happen.

Edit: That came off as insulting and that’s not my intent. Just so you know.

I was paying (actually my parents were) 50 to 60 American dollars for my Genesis games and SNES games back in 1990.

That was 30 years ago. It's a miracle that we have been paying 60 bucks for top tier games all the way to 2021.

50 dollars in 1990 is the equivalent of 115 dollars today. At some point prices were going to go up. Inflation is a real thing.

So don't see it as paying a 10 dollar premium just to play the PS5 version. I doubt Sony thinks they're charging more because they are gracing us with the privelage of playing on their latest console.

The 70 dollar price point is very clearly an inflation adjustment. At some point prices were going to go up. Did some of you really believe you were going to be paying 60 dollars for the rest of your lives?

How could Sony have even thought their initial tactic was even good? It was a convoluted mess from the get-go! Why would you not allow someone to upgrade/downgrade to begin with? $80 or you're screwed with only one option? Whoever came up with that strategy was just a straight up idiot.

@SM1FFY01 So true, they need to add some indies again since those are the ones I usually don't buy unless they're on a deep sale.
It's just hard to satisfice everybody.

@fR_eeBritney Hmm I still play my PS4 with the kids. I promise you, you will NEVER won't to load a PS4 game after PS5. Also yes the controller is friggin amazing I bought the new red one and haven't even used it yet. Just wanted it ready 😁

@Bleachedsmiles
I’m no dev but ‘ built from the ground up to take advantage of the ps5 hardware. ’ simply means it’s a native PS5 game.
Specifically designed for next gen is different and I think that’s how they introduced Forspoken ‘Project Athia’

@Would_you_kindly

Y’all really need to experience the loading times. Or lack thereof. To me that’s the game changer.

Like the PS4 version of FF7 remake vs Intergrade. I played half of the game in back compat mode and now I’m finishing the game up with the free upgrade. It’s night and day difference on loading. And the load times were already heavily improved over playing on PS4 hardware.

It went from about 35 seconds down to about… a fade to black from the menu into gameplay? Maybe a second, two max.

@TheRedComet I'll get an SSD when the prices eventually go down but ATM the increased price for less storage isn't worth switching from HDD's for me even with the faster loading / installing times

@GreatAuk Sony is posting record breaking profits and they are taking 30% from everything being sold in their store. I would agree about the inflation if the price hike was from a third-party or indie dev but not from a platform holder like Sony.

Just like matrick, to all the naysayers that complain about complainers, if you want a better Sony, then you need to kick and scream for a better Sony. They don't ignore us after all. Noise is risk.

If you don't, Sony will keep looking like Nintendo.

@get2sammyb said "I'm glad they reconsidered, and it’s good they’re listening, but too many backtracks this year from Sony.

Get it right first time."

Yes you are spot on about this.

@Bleachedsmiles next-gen games are just costing more. for example, COD vanguard just costs $10 more, Xbox or PlayStation. if Xbox just decides to eat the cost and be competitive, I'm sure, it won't last long and third-party games you will be paying for $70 in a year or two. this has nothing to do with smart delivery tag, just a different way to say it's free upgrade or not, game dev can easily opt out.

@xiaobinlu0719 One has to kick it off. If you honestly think that if Sony wasn't pushing for £70 price tags EA and Activision and the like would still be pricing next gen versions £10 more then you're crazy...because they'd be a huge backlash (Sony fanboys being some of the most vocal).
Also, £70 for next gen production costs would be easier to accept if we weren't talking cross gen games. These games haven't been designed to take full advantage of next gen hardware - they have to still work on current gen. And the ones that have been designed to take advantage of the hardware haven't been £70 so far (flight sim, the medium).
Cross gen games are literally the same game but with higher performance settings - which pc releases have seen for decades and not once have you heard publishers say 'we have to charge £10 extra if you want to unlock raytracing' ect.

If games cost more to make these days then the simple solution is to raise the price across the board. Why keep it £60 where the vast majority of your sales are going to be? Hell, people buying the PS4 version of this for £60 and then upgrading to the ps5 version for free should bankrupt Sony.
I'm sure the price will go up for all games. I'm sure production costs are increasing. The point is these are cross-gen games that are being sold at different prices where the only fundamental different will be perfromance.
But never use Activision or EA eagerly jumping on price increases to claim it's justified.

Also, this mess has everything to do with smart delivery - as none of this would have been an issue if Sony had their own smart delivery. One purchase and you're done.

@twitchtvpat Sure but there's a lot on the list, not arguing quality here.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/optimized

Any news on why they are still charging £60 for PS4 + PS5, but £70 for PS5 only? Just looks like they're trying to overcharge the unsuspecting.