
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is one of the few PlayStation 5 exclusives Sony has released. The game – which leverages every facet of the Japanese manufacturer’s new hardware – was said to be impossible to achieve on the PS4, but TT Games founder Jon Burton – who left the UK studio in 2019 after a 30 year tenure – argues that’s “misleading”.
The experienced programmer explains that the “amazing sequences of Ratchet zipping between many other worlds all chained together into awesome action sequences” are “mostly just cutscenes or very short sections of very limited gameplay”. Meanwhile, the Pocket Dimensions are “really graphically basic, and in fact just seem to use a lot of the same generic objects like crates that would already be available in generic memory”.
He goes on to get a bit more technical about the set-piece transitions, like a section where Ratchet leaps from a Speetle to a grind rail: “The important thing to note here is that none of this is optional, it’s forced. This is important because it means you can pre-load the grind rail section while you are playing the Speetle section. In fact, every section of this sequence is both forced and small.”
Burton does concede that there’s no doubt the SSD is being used to optimise everything, but concludes that “pretty simple techniques can be used to achieve exactly the same thing on older hardware”, including the PS3. In fact, he goes on to show a sequence he designed for LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars which utilises similar tricks.
Writing in the comments of the video, the veteran did go on to stress that he thinks the game is “great” and that Insomniac is an “amazing team”. “The SSD is fully used enabling an amazing looking game with unbelievable graphics,” he said. “The one thing I take exception to is the marketing saying the gameplay is only possible on the PS5 with an SSD. That clearly isn't true.”
[source youtube.com, via videogameschronicle.com]
Comments 118
Is he a 'disgruntled' former employee? Quite possible that the SSD would be required given that performance doesn't stutter and the quality of the assets not dipping.
Ps3 port incoming
Before the comment section inevitably piles on this man, remember that he’s got over 30 years of experience in the industry. I’d trust that he knows what he’s talking about. He’s dead on about the SSD not being strictly ‘necessary’ but in terms of optimisation it saves so much time that you can focus on other areas. It’s less misleading and more just ‘marketing’. Which as we all know isn’t exactly the most honest of professions.
He is right at some point - speaking about gameplay mechanics many (if not all) things in Rift Apart could be done on e.g. PS4 (even though I doubt PS3 would be capable of them). But devs would have to sacrifice so much other things like effects, models' quality and etc. Is it worth it? In my opinion - no.
Take it he isnt applying for a job at Sony any time soon 🤣
For what it's worth, as good as rift apart was, i didnt come away from the experience feeling it did anything particularly next gen. It just felt like another enjoyable R & C to me, (albeit, not as fun as Tools of Destruction or Crack in Time)
I put it in my ps3 and it didn't work. Just getting a flashing yellow light. Sum1 help pleez
Yeah, I guess they could probably make a very similar game on older hardware but not without loading screens or extended corridors to hide loading etc. And while the pocket dimensions are indeed small and simple, those couple planets where you hit crystals to switch dimensions - not so much.
@nessisonett Spot on ! . Its less misleading and just marketing push for the Ps5 in my eyes . Its no different when Sega used the term Blast Processing as a marketing push against the Super Nintendo .
Playing the game myself his points are valid, but the only section I would disagree with is saying the planets with dimension changing purple crystals would not require an SSD.
I think both are ultimately right. Burton clearly knows a helluva lot more about game development than I ever will, so I trust his analysis of what Insomniac is doing.
However, with these kind of assets, at this level of fidelity, it's not hard to imagine why the SSD was required and why the game hasn't been ported to PS4 as well.
People will attack this guy but its been notes by a number of people in the industry that this is true.
Yes it look and plays amazingly well, but it is entirely possible on PS4. And to say PS3 also wouldn’t be surprising considering the power that console had in some places.
I don’t believe the game would be nearly as beautiful doing this on PS4, but its definitely possible.
Removed - unconstructive
@get2sammyb Yeah, pretty sure not being able to achieve a good port on PS4 without changes to the game's design is the only reason it wasn't on PS4.
I think we all know it would've been cross-gen otherwise.
Sony did the fake marketing again.
Could Rift Apart run on older hardware? For sure. But would it be less stunning to behold? Absolutely!
I love them, but here is why they are liars and misleading you. Yep, sounds like a nice guy. Clearly they could have made these cut scenes, or loaded further in advance, but they didn't and it looks amazing. Why take pot shots other than to make the news?
I enjoyed the game and that's all that matters, marketing is just that. It was a great R&C game at least insomniac are pumping out more than just licensed Lego games, As fun as they are it would be nice to see TT do something new (I'll probably still buy the star Wars game.) Doesn't really help anyone saying that they out and out lied about it, Just riles up the fanatics online.
I’ve heard this ‘complaint/observation’ a few times from people who have played Rift Apart.
It does seem like their ‘only possible on PS5’ line was a little misleading.
I remember the very first R&C game and how they would disguise loading screens between planets by having the spaceship whoosh across the screen from different angles. It was very clever and actually made it seem like you were travelling across the galaxy to reach the next destination. They only used it for the first three games sadly but I wouldn’t mind if they did something similar to enable them to bring Rift Apart to PS4.
Rift Apart is the only PS5 game I want to play at the moment but I wouldn’t just buy a PS5 for such a short game.
Does the SSD allow fast loading of levels? Yes. See the PS5 Ghost of Tsushima video of fast travel. Is this guy right that R&C Rift Apart may use the SSD but technically it could be done by other clever means? Yes. He's got a point. It's used as a gimmick in R&C but overall it's not like it's actually adding anything. So back off internet reaction force. The man's not slamming on R&C, he's calmly making a technical point.
Weren't we all thinking this anyway and he just added his professional expertise to explain why?
Next thing you'll be telling us is Ghost of Tsushima could have had Japanese lip synching on the PS4. 😉
@fR_eeBritney Always thought it'd have been possible on the PS4 and this just confirms it.
@get2sammyb Thing is, I think Insomniac were instructed by New Sony to make it only on the PS5. If it had released for the PS4, one of the (very few) shining stars on the PS5 wouldn't have been an exclusive. And lets face it, it'd look almost as beautiful on the Pro...
@MightyDemon82 I must admit, when I saw the title I rolled my sleeves up and was ready to go ‘all in’ on Tt Games... ‘who are they to criticise when they can’t even release a simple Lego game in a timely manner?!?!?’ ... but then I realised it was just one guy (who left the company in 2019) and he was actually kind of right. Maybe Tt Games need to rehire this guy. He sounds like he would light a fire under their butts.
It doesn't matter what his knowledge is, it still comes across as disrespectful to Insomniac and their achievements when he's basically saying "it can be done on a PS3".
People seem to be taking away that the PS5 SSD possibly isn't as revolutionary as advertised. My take away is if the PS3 could do some of the stuff in Rift Apart that just proves how ahead of its time it was(to a fault in a way thanks to the lack of backwards compatibility support).
Either way I see his point. I do think "misleading" is perhaps a bit harsh of a term to use though as even if all the SSD does is make techniques like this easier and quicker to pull off, that's still using the new tech in an exciting way.
@AdamNovice there's much easier and more effective ways of showing "disrespect" than going into a technical deep-dive to prove a deceptive marketing practice
Sure the no loading thing isnt new. Soul Reaver did the no loading thing all the way back on PS1 and the Jak and Daxter games didn't have loading on PS2. Many other games have done the same thing in the years since too, but loading environments that are this detailed and this quickly is something you couldn't do on a PS4 that is a fact.
You could argue that if you drop the rez & frame rate, ignore load times, reduce texture definition, object count and animation frames etc. then there's nothing that can't be done on a PS3 and would be along the lines of the R&C games for that gen (if you stuck it on a few discs anyway).
It is a grandiose demonstration of the potential of the PS5 though, and maybe that's the angle Sony are pushing.
A playable Pixar movie really.
I'm sure it could have been done on PS3 in a cutscene.
Yes, if you REDUCE the quality of every aspect, in scene, it can be achieved on older tech.
The game at its current state, is not possible on older tech.
So yes, it can be done, but, the experience would be less in all regard.
@OmegaStriver was thinking the same thing. This 4k game at 60fps with all the effects and transitions can be done on a PS3? Or is he talking about a 720p version? I mean yes, any game could be done on PS3 with enough sacrifices. Guess I am missing the point here.
@OmegaStriver "The game at its current state, is not possible on older tech." - I think the point Jon Burton is making is the exact opposite of that. While I accept a hit to the resolution/fps would be required, especially for the base PS4, the old girl would be capable of running this game as the load times are not affected by common objects stored in RAM.
Gameplay would be the same and more copies would have been sold. However, I can think of 450 plus reasons as to why Sony didn't allow this to exist on the PS4 and none of them are technical arguments against the 4.
He undoubtedly has knowledge and experience, I just don't get why he felt compelled to create a 6 minute polemic against a few lines of marketing copy. Also, the comparison to the Lego game at the end was eye-roll inducing. Seems like he may have entered the crotchety old man phase of his career a bit early. Looking forward to the eventual deep dive into the blast processing controversy of '92.
He's not saying anything that hasn't been said long before, he's just going into detail. We always knew R&C wasn't a "proper next gen game", it was artificially locked to PS5. Same for Demon's Souls. Same for all the cross-gen games. Which is fine, but people won't let go of the idea that we're just playing prettier looking PS4 games still being a problem.
Marketing should be called out, lest it create a false narrative. People actually believe this stuff, and once enough people believe it for long enough you get a long standing "truth" that was never actually true.
@nessisonett Idc if he has 30 years experience or not there's no way they could get the game to look as good as it does now on older hardware nor would they be able to get it to run as well as it does either.
Experienced or not people like him are just irritating. PS4 is last gen now, the console has had its time in the spotlight.
@frankmcma Any game can be done on PS3. Sure go play Shadow of Mordor on it and say that then.
My thing is....why did he feel the need to call out this particular game. We never heard this guy talk about any other platform's marquee titles. I believe that's where the hate is coming from with PS fans.
As much as I enjoyed Rift Apart it kinda came and went and had absolutely no reply value. Glad I didn’t splash £70 on it.
This man is not wrong but Sony are good at making something seem unique to shift their hardware, even when it’s not.
There was a lot of (unofficial) talk before release of how you could use rifts to jump between worlds at will. Wasn't surprised when it was actually a very limited game mechanic that was massively oversold.
@Rafie I'm not sure why Jon Burton got involved in the conversation but for whatever reason he's highlighting the fact that Insomniac/Sony said it wasn't possible without the PS5 & SSD and he's just blown that idea out of the water by proving that something (admittedly less flashy) was done on the PS3 years ago.
I honestly kinda agree. I was expecting much more from the rifts, still my favourite game of this year so far though!
@sanderson72 Why now?! Why talk about it now? I fully expect him to also critique other games as well. I do agree with him about the game not needing a PS5 necessarily to run it. I thought it could be done on PS4. Definitely not on PS3.
Anything can be made to run on older consoles if you're willing to sacrifice other aspects of the game.
The Witcher 3 runs on Switch, so… yeah - it’s possible to experience the game on lesser hardware. I don’t think Insomniac or Sony would deny that. But like Sammy says, they technically are correct to say with the graphical fidelity, speed, ray tracing, and 60fps, of course it could only be done on PS5.
Advertisers do this all the time where they don’t technically lie about their product, they state something that is true and allow the customer to assume things. I’m not aware that Sony ever said the rift-jumping was the sole reason this was a PS5/SSD-only thing. Clearly the whole package of performance is what they technically meant.
@Rafie Perhaps he's got some down time as he's waiting for his new studio 10:10 Games to produce something? Either that or he's going to demonstrate flashier rift movements on the PS4!!
I agree that this game could also be on PS4, but come on...at least have some exclusives for the PS5 too. As much as I'd love to have this game to play right now, it gives me something to look forward to when I actually get my hands on a PS5, and this is the game that I will buy for it first (unless more come out later). Other than that, I remember the PS2 Gamecube Xbox era...any one remember how bad loading times were for Crash 4: The Wrath Of Cortex???? The loading for that game was horrible for PS2...a little better for Xbox and almost no loading for Gamecube...not really sure where I am going with this, but it shows that the SSD is what really matters with a console, and who would want to play the newest game on an older machine where they would be waiting for more 'loading time' than actually playing?
This guy also has a video about how PUBG could run on the genesis.
His videos on some of the stuff he's worked on is interesting like Sonic 3D's FMV. His videos where he guesses how interesting things in games he didn't work on could've been done haven't really interested me.
I thought it could probably run on PS4 but they can't bring every game to PS4 aswell as ps5 I know I wouldn't bother upgrading if every game I could play on PS5 I could also play on my PS4 pro
@sanderson72 It's clear he's doing something. I for sure didn't expect that from the Lego's game head. Well I'll get my popcorn ready for the comment section of that said video. I'm sure we're gonna see a lot of "experts" on developing a game and lots of sayings about how this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
@Rafie https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-star-wars-developers-set-up-new-studio/
Looks like we've found the reason for the delay of Lego Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga too...
This is like saying that a game could be done on N64 because it uses polygons.
The techs are old, the usability is new.
The amount of detail, fluidity and volume of textures, models, and size being loaded with minimum hiccups could not be achieved on older gen.
So to say "this could be done on ps3" if there was less textures, less geometry, smaller spaces, longer loading times... you are saying this couldn't be done.
Though what he says about marketing lies is true. They made us believe the rifts were main part of gameplay, but they are only main part of the narrative, and the gameplay portions that use them are extremely controlled.
It could have been done on the PS2 if they just scaled back everything.
@Phelaidar What he actually said was “The one thing I take exception to is the marketing saying the gameplay is only possible on the PS5 with an SSD. That clearly isn't true.”
He makes reference to a similar loading of different areas effect on the PS3 - not that R&C : Rift Apart could run on the PS3.
Personally, I found it a well explained discussion over marketing hype.
@sanderson72 Damn a lot of them bounced to other studios and such. I was wondering about the delay. Good looking out on the article.
Pretty much every ps5 game i've played so far (not upgraded versions of pre existing ps4 games) could all run easily on the ps4 but the hit to resolution and frame rates would be too much of a compromise unless you had never played the ps5 versions as a comparison..remember back when you used to get coin op conversions on your spectrum 48k or c64? I loved outrun and space harrier in the local arcade but on my humble speccy it was awful..any game could be made to run on any machine but that dosnt mean they should...
It can be done on gameboy colour, but the game will be different lol.
@nessisonett Lol do you really think ratchet can be done on ps3?
@Northern_munkey That's because we only have ratchet ps5 as "true" ps5 exclusive games, returnal can be made for ps4 with 30 fps and less effect I think, and demon's souls is ps3 remake.
I think that Returnal is the only game I've played on PS5 that would be massively compromised on the previous consoles. Not impossible, but it wouldn't be the same experience. All the others so far have essentially been a nice luxury.
@Northern_munkey Totally agree - I remember some of the Arcade conversions on the Speccy too!
I think Sony are somewhat hamstrung by just how popular and capable the PS4 has remained in its dotage.
Old gits like me, who can't see a reason to upgrade to a PS5 yet, are quite happy to have all the games come to the 4 and we see this as an injustice against the old girl when we know it's capable. Then again, I'm running a quiet Pro with a bloomin' fast SSD up its bum so my view is slightly skewed!
However, I appreciate Sony need to keep some games in reserve to allow people to justify spending £450 on a new console.
If true(I don't understand tech stuff like 99.9% of people online seem to) Then next year all PlayStation games will be for PS5/PS4 & now PS3/2&1 to Oh dear I hope SONY doesn't read this then + give it time and we will then see things we haven't seen be done before I bet
The truth of how needed this super ssd is will come from if these games get ported to grandma’s pc next year. Sony’s interest in that market does kind of contradict statements that it’s only viable with such fast hardware
Yeah, well maybe this could have been done on PS3 and PS4, but flying mechanics and lip syncing certainly couldn't /s
@sanderson72 i am enjoying going back to a lot of my ps4 games via bc because in a lot of cases i get to play the ps4 pro versions which were much better in a lot of cases so i can understand why people such as yourselves are ok to hold off getting a ps5 at the mo i myself would tell anybody to get one as soon as they can and enjoy better versions of the games they love..the ps4 has loads of life left in it..
@wiiware really? I didnt know this? Demons souls is a ps3 remake? My god i've been in the dark for so long..thanks for bringing me into the light..🙄
Sure, people could pull something like that even on PS1, after all we did get Soul Reaver who has a similar mechanic and zero loading time between transitions.
Problem is: could you pull that off with the same level of fidelity on PS3/PS4?
That's it I'm selling my PS5. I'm going back to PS 1 apparently everything will run on it. 😂😂😂
The guy is right, its all just marketing to trick you into buying a PS5 as fast as possible.
Look at the slimy marketing tactic they used before the PS5 launched with the GOW teaser saying it would release in '2021' Haha. I laughed so hard then because I knew it was bs. We haven't seen even a single screenshot of that game yet, I mean hell they promised Horizon this year as well and they can't even get that game out before the end of the year.
So needless to say the guy is right, and you should take everything Sony says with a grain of salt, I know I do.
Every developer thinks is the big s**t until they are asked to do those things, i met a lot of people like that in college. Of course the game could run on a really good pc not only on ps5, games are developed on pc after all. Would it be easy to do on ps3? Lol no, first because the ps3 tech was such a mess (from dev point of view) a lot of simple games didn't come to ps3 and second because of system limitations, is not about if the idea can run or not, is about the idea felling good.
@wiiware Yes. I watched the video. He goes into great detail as to why the underlying tech is possible without an SSD.
To be fair, the PS3 is a monster piece of tech. Its just a shame that it was so hard to develop for it. I remember lots of people mass bought PS3 for its computing ability. Including NASA and the US Airforce.
@nessisonett The underlying tech is possible, but the game won't be. Ps3 has 256MB ram, ps5 has 16GB, I don't think ps3 can render just one characters (ratchet or rivet) real-time lol.
@Northern_munkey Now you know, look into the light my child
I (and others) are feeling very vindicated by these statements. I’m going to make some popcorn and read the defense force bile in the comments now.
@Voltan That’s not what he’s saying. Of course any game can load something behind a load screen or stream in during an elevator/corridor/door animation. He’s saying what Ratchet and Clank boasted about being only possible on PS5 is very possible on even a PS3. We literally had an article on here this year about Argonaut achieving a Portal-like effect on N64, which is a couple of assets away from being a Rachet and Clank “rift”.
@wiiware The PS3 doesn’t have 256MB RAM, it has two different sets of 256MB RAM, both XDR DRAM and GDDR3 VRAM. And besides, you clearly haven’t watched the video or honestly really know anything at all about his argument if you’re saying that it’s not possible because there isn’t enough RAM. The entire point of his argument is that there are millions of workarounds and tricks used by developers on a daily basis to fool the user into thinking that there’s more going on than there is. They made Portal tech on an N64, it’s absolutely possible to create this rift technology on a PS3.
30+ Game Dev: Ratchet tech is marketing hype, can be done on a PS3.
@NomNom Because Sony PS3 is so amazing
Good grief!
@CielloArc Why move the goalposts to make a “Blast Processing”-esque BS marketing attempt true somehow?
Of course the fidelity would scale with the system Nobody is imagining the PS3 has PS5 level pocket dimensions, and nobody is even saying PS5 is not great piece of hardware. It’s just not as special or unique as Sony is trying to claim it to be and fanboys need it to be for some reason to validate it.
Boo this man, boo!
@AdamNovice spot on. Also, maybe he should work for CD PR as they seem to have problems making games for any console.
It's clearly not as easy as this man suggests.
🤔
@JapaneseSonic Lol, it is the internet after all. Don’t forget — we’re all virologist and public health experts, economists, and gurus in sociology and anthropology and know the intricate historical and cultural details of nations of the world we have never even visited. 😂
But to be fair - game developers probably know less about marketing than the average joe, and marketing people surely play less games than we enthusiasts play. And industry analysts… well that’s just a fancy term for someone who just happens to have connections and can follow the money. 😉
@sanderson72 Wait, so now we want ALL new PS5 games to also come out on PS4?
I'm confused.
@Col_McCafferty He could clearly have Cyberpunk 2077 running on a handheld powered by a potato, most likely. 😂
I think my biggest "omg this is next gen" moment was firing up my ps2 for the first time and seeing the amazing lifelike animations of tekken tag. I don't expect that moment to happen again.
Oh no, R&C could've been played on a PS4!
Because of that I'm going to throw my PS5 out the window, what a con.
😝
It's clearly a big step up but maybe for some people not big enough. Whatever.
This gaming industry is no different to the rest of the audio video market.
When new tech is released there is lots of smoke and mirrors and PR.
It’s standard in the industry.
Unless there is a massive change like old fashioned cassettes for music to CDs most tech advances are minor but good and used for selling points.
I'm really not sure what riled him up so much he thought he needed to say anything about it.
Of course you could play it on a PS3. If you sacrifice fidelity, framerate, population density, graphical variety etc. and are willing to wait longer when you can choose to jump to multiple dimensions rather than one.
As for the SSD tech in the PS5, it's still pretty unique and has huge potential. I'm sure there's lots more to come that will show it better than R&C.
Any that's not 'fanboyism'. Similar technology is being rolled-out on PC's. So folks other than Sony see it as an important technology going forward.
@nessisonett Like I said before, the technology is available even on psone (for example, soul reaver switching between different world), but there's no way ratchet & clank rift apart, the whole game, including it's high resolutions graphics and RT can be done on ps3.
Sure maybe if the resolutions, polygon count, framerate, loading time and RT is compromised, maybe they can port it to ps4 (not on ps3 lol), but at that point, the game is not ratchet and clank rift apart, but the inferior port of it.
People keep getting caught up on "the game with it's current texture resolution and poly count couldn't be copy-pasted to a PS4/PS3", but that's not what the article is talking about. Nobody's denying PS5 is a GPU/CPU upgrade that allows more detail and objects at once. What's being denied is the marketing claim that the game uses the hardware to permit a game design that would be otherwise impossible, which isn't the case. Only the visual detail isn't possible on older machines. Just like the visual detail of HFW running on a PS5 aren't possible on the PS4 version, yet it's otherwise the same game.
@wiiware But the article and video are about the rift technology. Not the whole game. Please point out where he says the whole game can be ported.
@sanguinekhajiit It doesn't matter how much effort he put into it, the fact is he's taking other developers's work to basically say "it's not as revolutionary as you think" it's like seeing a good magic trick only for some pillock to come along and tell you how it's done.
If he wanted to do something useful he should be telling developers like CDPR and Bethesda how their broken games should have been done in the first place.
@Col_McCafferty No, not at all. I'm hoping to see some proper new gen games wow me on the PS5 - just there's been nothing so far.
I was just saying the PS4 seems to be getting a lot of the games so far but pushing R&C onto the PS5 exclusively was a marketing move by Sony to push their next console. Nothing wrong with that but the fact that it looks like it would run on the PS4 given the inside knowledge of an industry veteran.
I want to see games on the PS5 that blow my and my Pro's socks off, not something that wouldn't make the Pro struggle too much. Something to make me want one. Just not seen it yet but I'm sure it'll come (maybe Dragon Age 4?)
Honestly a lot of Travelers Tales past games weren't exactly the most polished experiences so I don't think he has much ground to stand on.
This is one of those really difficult situations where I don't know if I should believe the expert or random commenters. Tough call really.
Not going to go against what a guy with that much programming experience says but I'd imagine there'd have to be some concessions that would make the game far less impressive in other aspects.
@AdamNovice uh, terrible analogy and weird strawman argument, but whatever dude. carry on.
Personally I believe Ratchet could run on ps4, but load times would cripple the experience. Frame rate visual fidelity would suffer, texture pop in would be visible. As much as I love all this tech talk, I'm past caring to much. I love the 16bit era more than any other gen. The Snes, Megadrive still have better games. No high end GPU, SSD, just great gameplay. That's what its about all said and done.
I am glad that this is not on PS4, we need more PS5 centric games.
Titanfall 2 had a level where you could switch between two timelines instantly
@nessisonett I think even psone can do rift tech, although it's impossible to do it with the graphicals details and no loading time of ratchet ps5.
Yes I can agree it could be done, but would PS4 and PS3 players be happy with the results? What would they look like in a side by side comparison?
Decided to actually look at what games he'd been a programmer on and it turns out...he didn't do much of that in his 30 years. The games he actually was in the trenches for was stuff like Sonic 3D Blast and...Sonic R...and some muppet racing game. Before sitting back and taking a lead role in the Lego games. Just going to say that none of his games sound like they've ever been as ambitious as a Ratchet and Clank game, so while he's had years of experience...I don't think he's had the right kind of experience.
I think he's being disingenuous. Yes, any game can be done on old hardware with enough sacrifices but you wouldn't get a solid 4K60 with the speed of loading that the PS5 is doing. You'd get 1080/30 at best.
Are we forgetting that when Microsoft dropped the Xbox Series S some developers were complaining that creating parity with that and the Xbox One X was going to hold their creative vision back? If that's the case then what would the PS3/4 do to a game like this?
He is right in a way but just sounds salty.
@GADG3Tx87 Was just going to say something similar. Of course it could have been done on older hardware, but not with nearly the same level of quality.
The SSD loads in the assets super fast. On PS4 even to do the same thing would probably have left us with textures that looked like mud for a bit before the hardware could catch up with the environments.
Maybe he says this later in that conversation though. I didn't look it up.
As the tests have shown you don't need the super duper internal SSD to do this, even the slowest pcie 4 sdd with 3,900MB/s reads and 3,200MB/s writes can run this game the same way.
Could the PS3 play the Rift apart game: NO
Could an amended version of the game play on the PS3: YES
Would they be the same game: NO
Every single game follows that logic. The new Flight Simulator game on Series X would play on a PS3 if you removed half the assets, changed the AI, framerate, resolution, etc. What does that really tell you other than you can reduce the quality of a game and claim it can play on inferior machines?
Thing is, Jon Burton never said that the PS3 could run Rift Apart. What he said was that the rift effects are not reliant on the PS5 or its SSD and that similar/identical effects to them can be produced on previous gen hardware.
Given what he said and his explanation, it would be perfectly possible to have Rift Apart run on the PS4. Yes, there would most likely be a bit of a trade off in graphics (1080p 30fps for base PS4, Pro with better frame-rate/resolution?)
In the end, Sony have decided to make it a PS5 only release which is their decision to make but their reasons why is what Jon Burton is disputing.
I think a lot of people are missing his point. Sony definitely implied that the rift warping was made possible by the ssd. Since those parts are on rails, that’s not really the case. Like many people have pointed out, though, being misleading and using misdirection is fairly standard practice in marketing, so it really isn’t a big deal. And obviously the game would be a lesser product on older systems. I don’t believe he’s claiming otherwise.
I think it's interesting that he's bring this up now after leaving the industry. I don't recall him attacking First Party games and Platform Holders when he was at Tt Games. So I guess he's not that honest after all, because he was keeping his month shut for 30 years.
@GamerDad66 He's not leaving the industry, he's setting up another studio called 10:10 Games with a LOT of ex-TT staff. Something's clearly rotten in WB Studios.
https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-star-wars-developers-set-up-new-studio/
@sanderson72
Not really rotten but WB as whole isn't doing that well, AT&T even considered selling them.
@nessisonett I'd trust that his company also just announced their ***** LEGO star wars game and they are trying to create free publicity.
Why wait until now to say something?
And then he says "but Insomniac are great" after he calls them liars basically? Nah, ***** this guy.
@arsmolinarc He doesn’t work for TT anymore. He isn’t involved with Lego Star Wars. Stop being a child.
I think Jon Burton and everyone who's agreeing with him is completely misunderstanding what R&C is doing.
Of course, instant level swapping has always been possible. Neither Sony nor Insomniac has said otherwise.
You can always use trickery to hide loading screens in the background while playing a pre-rendered video, force players into a small section while the next one loads and have assets loaded into memory before they're even needed.
Sony has literally explained that in the Road to PS5 presentation.
What's intrinsically different with R&C is that it's not using any of this trickery. It is literally dumping the entire previous level and loading in the new one into memory as soon as requested.
As Mark Cerny explained previously devs would need to keep assets that would be needed in the next 2 min of gameplay loaded into memory, but with the SSD they could have things loaded into memory that would be needed as soon as 2 seconds.
That way they can push for unrivaled levels of detail without any compromises, and that's exactly what they've done with R&C.
Nothing misleading about that.
Kind of a stupid criticism to make tbh, of course you can also get RDR 2 running on PS3, only that you would need to cut down everything that makes RDR 2, well RDR 2.
(Size of the map, models, textures and everything In between).
That's like saying Microsoft advertising Forza Horizon 5 running at 4K at max settings is only made possible on SX is misleading because you can also run that game at 1080p on Xbox One.
@Spiders not sure why you're so mad about it.
@NomNom I’m not mad at all. I’m a little disappointed for all the technological marvels of the PS5, there’s nothing new under the sun, but mostly I feel embarrassed for all the fanboys who refuse to believe Sony sold them some snake oil.
@Spiders Yeah, new tech is always like this though and it doesn't help that substantial progress between consoles seemed to end with the ps2-->ps3 transition. I don't think PS4 fully hit stride until Arkham Knight came out, so we will probably have to wait until 2023 until we receive something on the PS5 that truly feels next-gen. With that being said, I have immensely enjoyed Returnal, R&C, & all my optimized games running on PS5, so I look forward to what the PS5 can pull off in the future when every aspect of the console is optimized.
@PanFriedSoup I hope so. In fact, I believe that there likely is something innovative gameplay-wise that can be done with Sony’s SSD tech, but the sector of the industry than could put the resources to work to do it have become so risk-averse that our only chance is Sony first-party — which now has a track record of presenting common 3D coding solutions as proprietary technology (e.g. Horizon’s camera geometry culling) and the fanboys fall for it and never push them to truly do something new and special.
I totally agree with you on the tech jump too. I think Dreamcast was the last time I really felt that leap where new possibilities seemed imminent, save VR of course.The NHL 22 footage looked like the same game I played on PS3 a decade ago in everything but resolution.
@Deadcow Well said!
I enjoyed the game a lot. I could care less about someone rebutting marketing about it being possible only on a PS5. Whether that is technically true or not, many of us bought it and enjoyed it and that's all that matters.
@nessisonett a lot of games don't look or run as good as they could because optimizing cost man-hours.
In a year or two games on x|S and Ps5 should look and run better since the two have nearly identical architectures (AMD for both could and you) and extensions. Meaning that future cross platform game engines already include optimizations towards the architecture that it wouldn't normally have. What's technically possible isn't ever going to happen because no company is going to make a game in assembly. Just as we need faster and faster computers as the world moves away from C-like languages towards Python.
@ecin I hate Python. I understand that it’s the future but it rubs me the wrong way. Probably the colon throwing me off every single time before indentation. Probably doesn’t help that I have extremely horrible memories of neural networks through Numpy tied to it.
While I do agree the game could have released on PS4, the sacrifices they would have had to made to other aspects of the game just isn't worth it in my eyes...
I still rate Rift Apart as my 3rd fave R&C game, the OG Trilogy being #1 and Future Trilogy being 2nd.
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