Disabled Gamers Raise Concerns Over Decision to Scrap PS4 Pads on PS5

I do actually have a disability. Mild cerebal palsy, I think it will be a challenge for me as the ps5 controller will be a lot bigger than ps4 controller. I didnt like xbox due to being a heavier controller. I will probably eventually get used to it. Its always been the case though. Ps3 controller didn't work on ps4. Im actually surprised the ps4 controller will work at all on ps5

Literally wait two freaking seconds for Sony to properly announce more details and options and such before screeching lol. People are so impatient and demanding.

> their physical and mental issues

Slight cringe at the wording here, most of us with cognitive issues prefer this more specific phrase, as mental issues conflates cognition with mental health. These are both very real issues but they need to be dealt with differently, so grouping them into a single bucket category causes more harm than just the stigma associated with these phrases.

Luckily for me the change in controller is unlikely to affect my own disabilities, but I have to admit I'm curious as to what the community will be able to come up with, and how much Sony will support accessibility.

'Kin Ell! Not a conspiracy theorist but sure seems like the timing of recent stories against PlayStation is one hell of a coinkidink!

Sony should make playstation version of gamepad for disability people like that microsoft controller, make it for ps5 with full ps5 feature but can be played on ps4 as well.

@Gr8VngnzN4esAngr cool your jets, Sony are just as capable of fumbling the ball as any other corporation

@theheadofabroom I'm sorry, I've changed the wording in the article to reflect this.

@LiamCroft No problem, I guessed it was ignorance not malice. I'd say the physical issues some games face are very much still relevant, so if I were expanding out the phrasing with the intent that I'm guessing you were going for I'd probably say "despite physical, cognitive or emotional impairments" or similar, to make it clear that there are a wide range of disability issues affected by controller design.

I can see for instance that haptic technologies intended to increase engagement with, for instance horror titles, could be an issue for people with PTSD unless they can be turned off. Meanwhile people with arthritis may struggle with heightened trigger tension, people with missing/deformed digits/limbs may need a controller with an adapted shape, and for myself, with a fatigue disorder, I worry that increased sensory feedback may limit the length of my play sessions if they increase the cognitive load of play.

Hopefully things will work out.

@Milt you talk like it’s a completely different beast. It’s a controller. There’s no reason you couldn’t use a ds4 but not have those “features”. But sony don’t want you using them as your second controller, they want you buying more.

@Robinsad I'd guess it depends on game design, as the adaptive triggers could potentially be used to add more actions than you could meaningfully differentiate on the DS4.

It could easily be defined by compatibility checks though, like they did on the Wii with GameCube controllers

@wiiware Spot on, whilst it doesn't effect me I believe Sony, MS and Nintendo should make a game pad for this audience from launch. I am told TLOU2 was a big step forward for accessibility which was welcomed by the community so why not build on that feedback to offer a controller which increases the community support further, it shouldn't be an after thought and it may well not be in which case I will happily hold my hands up.

@theheadofabroom when you think you can use a vita to control the PS4 I don’t see why it would be a problem. Some games may have less compatibility but on the whole it’s an option that would allow gamers to both save money and allow compatibility with the workarounds.
Also I assume there will still be remote play(I know not confirmed) and many controller features are not supported on the mobiles apps

@theheadofabroom but mental health and cognitive skills are often linked?

@Panic_Attache sure, but not always. It's also important to address the primary issue, which can be different for different people.

I have low executive function because of my fatigue disorder, which leads to a reduced quality of life, which occasionally trigger anxiety and depression. The issue that needs to be addressed to make things accessible to me, are primarily those around fatigue.

My partner suffers with depression, which leads to low executive function, and so the issues that need to be addressed for her access needs, are those around mental health.

Accessibility is super important. No one should be left behind by the move to next gen because of challenges using the new pad.

And as shown by the recent efforts made by Naughty Dog, accessibility is clearly important to Sony.

I think the solution is for Sony to work with its community and develop an adaptive pad like Microsoft did. That was a great initiative and Sony should definitely do the same.

I don't think the criticism of Sony over the past 24 hours has been particularly fair in many ways. Before Series X when have you ever been able to bring controllers forward to the new generation. There are only a few examples.

And what about other devices? I cant use my old tv remote on my current tv. I cant use my old micro usb charger on my new phone which has usb-c. I know its stretching the point, but Sony must believe that there is tech in their new controller which is crucial to the experience of PS5 titles.

But this accessibility issue is really important and it's quite right that it has been raised. Sony's comms havent been the best, and any risk of cutting off a chunk of the player base needs addressing. Everyone deserves the same opportunities to game. And from launch. Not as an after thought.

So i hope Sony can work with the community to find a solution in the coming months.

@get2sammyb nope the PS5 SDK doesn't currently allow for DS4 support in PS5 games. There are a number of queries in to Sony about cross generational games though, because playing the PS5 update of say Cyberpunk 2077 should realistically allow you to use the DS4, but technically speaking it might not. Sony do have a lot of clearing up to do around this, and not just for disabled consumers / gamers.

It's an area Sony have been poor on for a while, seeing Naughty Dog take the lead they did with TLoU2 was surprising to me, because in this one area, accessibility, they are generally light years behind Microsoft. Now, that's not to say Sony aren't working on it, and specific solutions for people, they might be, but equally until we know they are these gamers are absolutely right to voice their concerns, because maybe Sony aren't working on solutions, and maybe now they realise they have too.

And for those saying wait 1 to 2 years, get with the program. I have a gaming friend with two missing digits due to injury, a number of gamers with cerebral palsy and other disabilities, why should they miss out on the excitement of a new generation? That's what inclusivity is, bringing everyone with us, I hope Sony do the right thing, and live up to their new marketing slogan, "Play has no Limits".

@Rob_230 I'd point out that Nintendo have had a decent enough track record for this with everything since the GameCube, but it's also fair to say they've been playing their own game, and most people on Xbox/PlayStation platforms haven't paid much attention

@Panic_Attache actually they aren't. There are serious myths about the "links" between the two due to popular culture that just don't help. My first BSc was in Human Psychology, and I maintained my BPS accreditation until very recently, there's been a concerted effort with psychology to bust these myths, because any causal links are not inevitable links, so assuming a link is wrong and does little to aid in properly addressing an individual's problems.

@get2sammyb There will be, for sure. Just wait.

@get2sammyb the SDK documentation we've been given. Sony themselves yesterday said the DS4 will only work with backwards compatible games, isn't that confirmation enough?

Edit: I'm being told a number of publishers have sought confirmation / clarification for cross generational games, specifically those that do not take advantage of the adaptive triggers as I understand it. It should be a very easy work around, because the system will pair and be compatible with DS4 input.

there's zero reason to do this other than greed unfortunately, third party PS4 peripherals have been confirmed to work on ps5, disgusting

@SirAngry in my personal experience they are which is where i was coming from.

"This is the worst news ever"

Ιt wouldn't be twitter without a massive overreaction. Yeah, I mean forget about wars, the pandemic, millions of people dying for all sorts of reasons. This. This right here is the worst news ever.

I’m glad Sony is getting bad press over this very anti consumer decision.. Microsoft has made great strides in disability gaming, it’s disgusting Sony has basically ignored that group all together apart from some in game settings..

@naruball. I agree with you.people always complain about anything.too many things.going on in the world right now.and this is nothing to me.word up son

@Mostik Microsoft DO make a games pad specifically for disabled people and it has a ton of inputs for other third party peripherals too.. where is Sony’s or Nintendo’s answer to that?

@naruball agreed, the hyperbole is often the thing that causes the eye rolling. It's a critical issue for some people, and we shouldn't diminish that, but equally we shouldn't make everything the worst thing ever. It's solvable, Sony can provide work around for most of the issues many have brought up, and they might already have them in place.

@Panic_Attache that's fine, just as long as we all realise personal experience isn't the same thing as generalisable rules. Quite often disabled people do struggle with complex multiple needs, but the root cause isn't their disability, but how their disability is treated or more specifically how they are treated because of their disability. The solution is therefore not to treat the complex needs but to solve the actual issue leading to them. Sadly that is rarely possible as it's often wider societal norms causing the issues. But it's probably not a topic for this discussion.

@naruball I find your comment and many others on here disgusting and very insulting and derogatory towards the disabled community, you may not give a toss, but disabled people might find gaming a joy and a bit of a break, but hey who cares if Sony is screwing then over currently with the next gen eh? Let’s not be nasty towards the giant corporation, when it’s competition is making great strides to help these people..
You should all grow up and show some humanity, think about the message your portraying, yes we are in a pandemic and whilst your all sat at home playing next gen Sony consoles, some disabled people won’t be... stop being so utterly selfish with your attitudes.

@S1ayeR74 and you've miss characterised @naruball's comment, which isn't helpful. They didn't say any of the things you've attributed to them. That's the sort of hyperbole @naruball was commenting against. Just chill out a little and reign it in, no body is served by shouting at each other, that's not constructive.

@SirAngry I think you need to re-read the thread and comments with your selfish hat taken firmly off...

@theheadofabroom ugh I been upset about the news but only now that you bring it up it crosses my mind how much this tension stuff in triggers will mess up with my arthritis...

Truly hope those features can be disabled the same way vibration can be disabled.

@S1ayeR74 Agreed mate, MS are leading the way on this front given the excellent coverage they got from mainstream media when they released the game pad and most importantly the feedback from the disabled community I am surprised others haven't followed suit.
As I said it should be part of the design process from the start and release along side the console itself, I am sure it is not easy but given there is a proven blue print for the MS game pad surely it is possible.

@Trajan That is an option, I have personally decided this path already, but I still plan to get sooner or later a PS5 for the first party exclusives, and those are even more likely to force dual sense features on the player.

@S1ayeR74 and so do you, look at my comments, I'm critical of Sony over this, and the games industry in general. I am supportive of anything which increases accessibility and inclusion, but your response isn't going to help that. You're just setting yourself in opposition to people, and that causes intreachment of belief, not challenge to it. I know it can be hard sometimes to act and respond with a cool head, but genuinely it's far better for all concerned in the long run.

@thefirst accessibility isn't affordability, the two things are entirely separate in many instances, even if they are sometimes correlated. This isn't genuinely an issue of affordability, it's one of making your platform accessible to people with different needs. I don't think in 2020 that's too much to ask, especially as I think there will be workarounds to many of these issues for people.

I had (for me) a major wrist injury last year. Now, don't get me wrong, the most upsetting part of it all was not being able to wrestle and lift my son the way I use to, and the way I always had done with the other kids in my family. That said, trying to sit down and play games was exhausting. I struggled to play certain games or with certain controllers. It was stressful to not have that freedom, to not be able to enjoy my hobby to the fullest.

Physical limitations should not mean a reduced quality of life.

@Richnj amen.

The ignorance of comments here is staggering - “chill” “wait 2 years for work rounds”

Why should disabled gamers not be catered to...

Do you people have any idea already how isolating living with a disability is... how daily simple tasks that people like you take for granted are either impossible or much harder.

Not only is there a stigma to living with a disability- there are those that suspect everyone with a disability is trying to work the system, someone treat their lives as being worth less than a “fully able” person - just see the Covid coverage - “outstanding health issue” some how made deaths more palatable.

The billions companies like Sony make they could really make games and gaming accessible.

Nothing is made accessible. When it is it’s not like a normal experience.

From health care to theme parks. Sporting events - wheelchair and disability areas are always for a person and “their carer” - many disabled people want to sit with friends and family like everyone else and events don’t cater for this at all.

So if your instinct to this issue is that they should chill or wait 2 years - keep your opinion to yourself - if Sony listen and help the community how would that be bad for you?? And why wouldn’t you want Sony to go the extra mile for these gamers???

@SirAngry Ah is when people like on here blatantly post who cares, stop with the moaning, your suggest we all keep quiet, because having a go at selfish ignorant people isn’t helpful... right right I see, please do tell what we ‘should’ be saying, if we are not allowed to call selfish people out when they deserve it.

@Stocksy Thank you, I find it disgusting too with the comments on here, perhaps these people think only ‘Black Lives Matter’ but disabled folk should go away as no one cares?
It’s shocking the attitudes of some on here.. let’s hope they don’t find themselves with a disability all of a sudden tomorrow and they cannot play the PS5 because of Sony’s actions.. it can and does happen like that you know..

I can understand the concerns for players with disabilities, whether or not the ability to play will be lessened or even removed at the start of the new gen, especially with the good work that MS have done with disabled gamers in mind recently.

However, it's been a bit of an unprecedented build up so far, especially with the lack of info, pricing etc.. So, you would hope that eventually, Sony will be more forthcoming with information across the board, Including how those with disabilities are catered for, so that they can play with the same freedom, as I am fortunate to have.

I hope this will be the case, as my disabled partner has got into gaming recently, so anything that helps her play and enjoy games in the same way as I do, will be great..

I just feel patience is needed..

@S1ayeR74 I didn't say keep quiet, you're doing it again, and misrepresenting what I said. You aren't solving anything with your responses, maybe it makes you feel good, but it's not going to be effective in changing people's minds. I'm just trying to get you to see that changing your communication style and not making BS up is a better way of communicating with people. I am someone who agrees the situation Sony have put these gamers in is unacceptable, and they need to provide solutions for people. I have been highly critical of Sony over its lack of focus on accessibility, and no, one game doesn't make up for their laissez-faire attitude over the preceding decades. You can continue to miss characterise me and make false claims about what I've said, but it changes nothing positively, and is only likely to lead towards animosity, which is no good to anyone, and especially not the cause of accessibility. I'm not going to respond to you again until you've regained some semblance of calm and stop accusing me of things I've not said, and positions I would never hold, especially as I'm an advocate within the industry itself.

@get2sammyb Like how the keyboard support works in PS4, right ? Cuz some games do work with it.

@SirAngry I’m not making ‘BS’ up, I just refuse to stand by and watch when I see bigotry like you choose to. You should be more concerned about the topic in hand then those who don’t like bigots.

@S1ayeR74 one more response then, because I'm going to give you a key insight I've learned with trying to advocate within workplaces for inclusivity for over 20 years, and it's a failing I had at the beginning when trying to be an ally and an advocate. Pointing out people's ignorance and bigotry by explaining it calmly is far more effective than just shouting "bigot" or "ignorant" at people. Generally people don't understand what they've never lived, and while it can be frustrating it is far more rewarding and effective to see them as misinformed rather than an adversary. For the record I have a cognitive disability, and one that is vary rarely catered too within games, but I'm coming from a place where I'd rather convince people to be my allies than make them my enemy. We all mess up, we're all human, so I choose to treat people with humanity, even people who are rude and misrepresent me, like you.

@Trajan from the reports I read, it’s more than just HD rumble, seems the triggers can fight you back (make themselves harder to push.) That would be horrible for me, arthritis is bad enough as it is, don’t need the controller actively fighting me.

That aside, I think Sony is just tying to force developers to use the features of the new controller, and that actually makes me feel bad for anyone buying cross-platform games. I have bad memories of PS3 launch games with terrible motion controls, all because Sony insisted developers added six axis features.

@S1ayeR74 thanks for proving my point.

Did everyone forgot about this?
https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/04/sony_welcoming_feedback_on_ps5_controller_accessibility_concerns

I feel they should make a controller for people who have disabilities, because games makers can have these with there games just take a look at Naughty dog with TLOUP2 and it's accessibility options xx

@Kidfried exactly. I mean, 2020 has been such a horrible year that calling this the "worst news ever" is downright insulting to all the people who have lost their lives, including those in Lebanon.

Perspective, people. Perspective.

@Nakatomi_Uk a noble idea, but one that misses the central point. No one solution is suitable to everyone, when we design things we design them for a specific purpose or people, and in doing so we ultimately we build exclusion into many of our designs. The aim is to allow adaptivity and personalisation. Some of that can be done in software, be it the games or the OS, but yeah, you're right, a big part of it has to be done via designing physical input devices for specific needs, or, if they already exist allowing a degree of compatibility via software. Sony and others needs to get far better at this, because far more people struggle with things than many of us would believe, just requires a more inclusive design process, I'm an advocate of participatory design methods, because even though I think I'm clued up and "woke" (hate that word) I can't know what someone else's lived experience is like, so include them in the design process. We've been including gamers in the design process for decades via game testing, it just requires a broader more inclusive remit.

It is a bit worrying, and the tweet from the accessability consultant doesn't help either, but hopefully Sony will put measures in place to improve the options for disabled gamers. You'd hope it would be apriority, given the measures that ND put in place to make TLoU2 as accessible as possible. Maybe it's something that can be done on a software level for example, to disable the trigger tension feature etc?

It would be great to see something like that special controller Xbox came out with a while back.

Got to love the empathy in this comment section. Dear lord, what is this site coming to.

@nessisonett sadly that's the world we live in now. Very few people willing to do the actual listening part of the communication, and people just wanting to shout at each other.

@SirAngry #32 I would love to have a sit down in a more public place than disability Twitter to have a full discussion of what's wrong with both the Medical model of disability and the new and trendy Social model, but it'll have to suffice to praise you for at least talking about the topic with some nuance

@Tharsman #38 yeah, I'm sure there are many more and better examples, but it occurred to me with my, obviously not the same, recurrent RSI

@theheadofabroom I'd be glad to talk, and more importantly listen to you.

Does this site have a PM system?

@SirAngry your quick to judge aren’t you, and how am I misrepresenting you then? You have a voice yes? Your able to use it well it seems, can you not represent yourself? What about those who can’t, I’m sure your on a noble cause to treat people, but I’ll stick to my guns. I won’t let people get away with simply telling others to wait a couple of years rather then complain about the attitude shown towards them, as obviously some in the disabled community are upset about this.

@SirAngry #61 there's a lot to what you're saying, but this is something where for me Xbox really shines: their adaptive controller allows you to use whatever hardware works for you, and map it to the game's controls. This is the sort of solution we need to see.

@SirAngry it’s not his job to “change” people’s minds. People shouldn’t be so ignorant there is no excuse. People here saying “corona” is happening and worse than this... they do realise that people with disabilities are they ones that have highest risk of dying. They don’t need to compare corona with making gaming accessible... I’m shocked by the comments here... especially the comments by one of the members of staff.

It isn’t good enough that people wade in with opinions that will have a negative effect on those already alienated.

You trying to make a victim out of their ignorance is just as shocking.

Every human has the capability of empathy. There is no excuse to not understand the basic premise of how difficult it is for people less able, whatever that disability it is.

We should not need to take ignorant comments and turn the other cheek.

We have to fight every second of everyday just to get the basic access others have naturally.

Read the comments. “Chill” “wait for 2 years” “‘most games might work”

I understand it’s the fanboys - if the same article was about Xbox they’d all be on the other side of the fence.

It’s not good enough. There is no reason every gamer should want the games not to be accessible. So why do they have an opinion. Because they are self entitled.

End of story

@S1ayeR74 actually I'm not quick to judge, that's clearly you, I still haven't judged you, I've not attributed things to you you've not said, which you have done to me and others. A bit of pot calling the kettle black there methinks. Yes, I am able to represent myself well, and others, as an advocate, what I don't need is you misrepresenting me as it's unhelpful. If you'd stuck to representing yourself I'd have absolutely backed you up, and on many of your points I'm in 100% agreement with you, but when you misrepresent people, when you make false inferences about their opinions and beliefs I will call you on it, because you're doing more harm than good. I also called out the waiting two years comment in my very first comment on this thread, before you'd even commented. I was asking you to calm down and take the venom and heat out of the communication, because it harms the discourse, as someone who has done this advocacy thing for years it breaks my heart to see many of the comments on this article, it truly does, but "going after people" in the way you have makes it harder to have meaningful discourse. That makes it harder for us to effect change, and that's my goal, not scoring brownie points in a pointless argument that serves nothing but our ego's. This is obviously a subject close to your heart, so I get your passion, and yeah, anger, but you need to ask yourself whether making yourself feel better briefly for insulting people, and not taking the time to listen and engage in thoughtful communication is worth it. If it is, then go right ahead, if it isn't then please take my well meaning advice.

@SirAngry #70 I've not seen one, but my handle is the same on Twitter, if you're on there. I'd get the impression our conversation would be quite short though unless we want to go through everything we seem to agree on. The problem is that none of these conversations seem to make it into the wider public consciousness.

Essentially for me it boils down to the fact that my quality of life could be much improved by a more inclusive society, but the medical reality of my disability will always place hard limits on what I can do with all the accessibility I could dream of.

In this context I used to play a lot of CS:S, mostly gungame. I can't pay that sort of intense twitch-reflex game any more without crashing hard within about 5 min, so now I play a lot more strategy and tactical games like XCom, Hitman, Zachtronics stuff. For action-oriented games like Tomb Raider or Deus Ex to be accessible I need to pause a lot and make extensive use of smart vision modes.

@Stocksy and again, with much of what you say I am in agreement. It absolutely shouldn't be @S1ayeR74's job to educate, or in your words "change people's minds". I agree. Just like it shouldn't be black people's job to inform society that their lives matter. Sadly we live in a highly ignorant society, and often those with the smallest voices, those with the least privilege do have to take on these roles because if they don't nothing will change. Is it fair, no. In fact it's deeply unfair, which is why I'm an ally and an advocate. My issue @S1ayeR74's initial comment was how they misrepresented @naruball's comment, and what that might do to the discourse. They then proceeded to misrepresent me. It's got nothing to do with making people the "victim" or "victim blaming" it's simply about trying to have civil discourse. I want change, and hurling insults around and angering people doesn't serve that, and yeah, sometimes we have to be the bigger people. It sucks, I agree, and if you think I'm out of line then that's fine too, I'm willing to listen. However, as someone who has attempted to change minds I just wanted to impart some of my learned wisdom from my own personal praxis.

A good opportunity to highlight the great work done by the Special Effect charity.

https://www.specialeffect.org.uk/

https://www.youtube.com/c/specialeffectcharity

@SirAngry I reported him for flaming, because it feels like that's what he's doing

@theheadofabroom I'd rather try and communicate, but it seems I've failed on that score, and as it takes two to tango part of the fault must lie with me. I hold them no malice, just a shame I've not been able to engage meaningfully with them. Maybe after some reflection we can both try again.

PSN: should now be in your notification email, send me an invite and I'd love to chat.

@JapaneseSonic my good man it's an in joke with quite a few people who know me well. I can be firery when needed, but I try my hardest to remain calm and chilled. It's better for my mental health and those around me, friends used to try winding me up, it rarely worked, just find I'm more effective this way when communicating.

I'm deeply saddened by many of the thoughtless and ignorant comments on here, but I also know from experience the vast majority of people don't act out of intended malice, even if it might seem that way to others. So I'd rather not treat people like they're scum until they've proven beyond all reasonable doubt that they are... looking at you Yves Guillemot.

@Swe345 Sony barely just announce this and before they can follow up with options, alternatives, etc OR even backpedal on this design choice and allow some method or way to cater to disability, you get completely people who completely throw poop on Sony who will 100% do something to rectify this.

Don't screech at me go tell Sony off via DM, PM, email etc cause the more people that tell em this design choice is dumb the more they will wake.

I ain't the one who decided to make the hardware and software work like this a thing.

Ps. I have a friend who is almost 100% blind, has to stick himself with needles daily incase his blood sugar level is too high, as well as keep his heart rate from being too high. He has difficulty on a ton of faster paced games and anything non turn based JRPG in general but he works around this and I'm always there to be a really good friend for him and make him feel better when he starts to feel down about his conditions so shut the hell up about compassion kid.

@TechaNinja OK, deep breath. You do realise the inherent contradiction in your responses right? You initial accuse these people of screeching, your very first comment, #3. Now to you it might seem like screeching, and sure your perspective is valid, but it did come across as insensitive. Now reading your latest comment, #82, you say, and I quote:

"Don't screech at me go tell Sony off via DM, PM, email etc cause the more people that tell em this design choice is dumb the more they will wake."

So you acknowledge these people should bring it up if they want to effect positive change. You can see the potential contradiction in your comments can't you?

Look, I don't think you are coming from a bad place, but the things you've said are insensitive, and it's clear from your latest comment that actually you do get it. So why the first comment? Genuinely, why make it. Are you defending Sony? If so why? Do they pay you? That's not a snide comment, but a genuine question, I've often found employees of organisations act defensively when said company comes under attack and often defend things they normally wouldn't. Either way, you can clearly see there's an issue here, and it's on Sony to solve, so I don't really understand the defense of them.

Isn't there a trackpad on the PS5 controller? That's what the big white square is. Same place as the black square on the ps4 controller.

@SirAngry Man I wish but I don't work for Sony and I know to give em shiz for doing dumb shiz when they do it. Like seriously you gotta resort to such a silly ad fallacy like that?

This whole situation is just another dumb thing that if enough people contact Sony in a bunch of different methods will make em realise they dun goofed bad.

It's stupid as hell indeed what they have done is moronic but yeah if enough people tell Sony they should fix things. Putting something or someone on the firing squad line is fair when bad decisions happen but at the same time when you get people who put all their energy into doing so instead of actually trying to contact them and seek a solution or even help work with others to raise a voice up of the issue.

Disappointing given that Xbox controllers are all cross compatible and that the big Green company has been the one to invest so much time and effort in creating that adaptive controller. Sony be are a company that make big money, and really at the end of the day, they don't seem to give a stuff about the players.

"PlayStation's accessibility specialist, Mark Friend..."

Well, that's one position where I would never want this dude replaced with anyone, he sounds perfect for the job lol 😆

I mean, I want the new controller to be used in full so I can't say I disapprove of Sony discontinuing the DS4 for PS5. It may come with challenges for some but overall progress and innovation must be made and used. New work-arounds will happen and these concerns will be worked out, especially with third-party products, I would imagine. We also don't know a lot about the PS5 at this point and this may be a bit pre-mature.

@TechaNinja depends where in SIE you'd be working I guess!!! Not all departments are created equal, lol. Is the decision dumb? From the outside undoubtedly yes. However, if they are going to require DS4 support going forward, poor hard pressed Devs are going to have to map controls for all PS5 games out multiple times, because the analogue sticks, triggers and bumpers are all more fine grained on the DualSense when compared to DS4. So from that perspective Sony's decision isn't so dumb. However, it is dumb because they didn't consider all perspectives, and it sounds like a certain Mark Friend has his work well and truly cut out for him.

But getting back to the "screeching" thing, sadly marginalised groups have to "screech" sometimes to be heard. We don't know if these people haven't contacted Sony directly do we? As they're all seemingly activists I actually think it is safer to assume they have done as you've suggested and contacted Sony directly. So I view these comments as awareness raising, protesting if you will to bring it into the public consciousness, to try and drum up support, and here's the thing, it sounds to me like you actually do support them. So it makes your initial comment all the more baffling to me. lol. Marginalised groups often need outside support, you can give it, or not, but I don't understand those who oppose just for the sake of it.

@Kidfried there's plenty of money to be made from disabled gamers, it's just a catch-22 that they can't get the figures for that until they make the investment to make their platforms accessible.

The Steam Controller API, for instance, has been a huge boon for disabled gamers on PC.

@Kidfried sorry, but how do you know there isn't profit to be made? Hey, I think our society is far to capitalist for its own good, but the market is supposed to provide my friend, and the reason it isn't has little to do with profitability, which is easy to test, and to build into any product development. The reason capitalism doesn't provide is because the incentives are often not worth the effort, unless we make it worth the effort. Sony could easily do what Microsoft have done, they choose not to. The question is why would anyone feel the need to support a company that excludes people as a choice? Do you not what disabled gamers to be able to play games? Again, genuine question. I'm assuming the answer will be no, so why provide cover for Sony? I genuinely don't get the position, sure, you don't have to support us, it'd be nice if you did, but equally you don't have to oppose us either. You don't even have to have an opinion.

@SirAngry The comment I replied to actually was claiming this was nothing to be worried about, because their are worst things out there, well yes you could be disabled, or be made so tomorrow.. and to those people I’d imagine not being able to do something they enjoy IS a big deal and does NOT deserve to he downplayed. Their is over reacting and then their is blame and anger when it is justified, ironic considering your comment in Black Lives Matter.

@SirAngry No your coming across as a bit self centred, for instance you claim I am mis-representing an entire group, so you know every disabled person? Look at the story many are clearly upset by this decision, and I think some comments in here are definitely insulting towards disabled people as do others. I don’t think telling people to just shut up and wait a few years is helpful to anyone.
And it seems the comment by Narubell that you agreed with, stating many people are hyperbole over this in your reply to it, has been removed by the mods, so they must also agree it was in poor taste.

@S1ayeR74 no I claim you mis-represented me, and one other commenter. Which you did. Made no other claims beyond that. The rest of my comments were aimed at getting you to understand that this misrepresentation wasn't conducive to civil discourse. Although I'm now starting to realise that maybe you've not been taking the time to actually read my comments, and are patently just assuming things about me and responding to what you think I've said, or what you want me to have said. Sorry, you're not going to get away with it, I won't let you. I'm anything but self-centeted, yet again you've made an inference about me without any supporting evidence. Here's the thing, you've added to the toxicity of this discussion. That's on you. I can understand why you might have done that, and where you might be coming from, although I don't know for sure, but that understanding doesn't excuse it.

Given the Stunning accessibility features of TLOU2, I don't doubt that Sony will do well by disabled players around the world. Plus it's likely the new rumble features etc will bring new possibilities to the table for disabled players, and the fact that the DualSense has firmware that can be updated just adds even more to the mix. Change is always both exciting and stressful but Sony will do the right things I'm certain...

Well there's an awful lot of selfish, close-minded, and ableist comments in here by people this doesn't affect.

Is this the worst thing that is literally happening in the world? No. Is it disheartening and frustrating to players it affects? Absolutely. I for one am very much looking forward to several of PS5's launch titles, and I would absolutely be frustrated if I physically couldn't play them because Sony didn't take the time to make the platform accessible to people with disabilities.

Sure, you can make the argument "the platform hasn't even launched yet!" Development doesn't happen in a vaccum. Sony should be accounting for these things at launch. Especially because they apparently have a person whose job is literally to ensure they account for these things, and that person is apparently being ignored.

Folks in this discussion are saying to quit your whining. If nobody complains, nothing ever changes. So get over yourselves. And show a little support for your fellow gamers over corporate entities for ****'s sake.

@Kidfried hey, if I miss read your comments I apologise. Just sounded to me like you were making excuses for a multi-billion dollar corporation which is currently having its best year on record for profits. lol. Which, to be honest with you people absolutely are doing, however if that's not what you are doing then sorry. Truth is if Naughty Dog can do what they did with TLoU2 so too can other developers, and if Microsoft can develop adaptive controllers why can't Sony? PlayStation is certainly way more profitable than Xbox, so not investing in a similar program is a massive oversight, and one all gamers should be on at them about.

He then goes on to explain that he "currently uses the Xbox One Adaptive Controller connected to a DualShock 4 with extra buttons on the back to play games. That setup won't work on PS5 at launch."

Right..

I'm all for supporting disabilities but being angry/upset that Sony does not support this is just ridiculous. Especially as there is a next gen console from MS on the way as well..

@naruball

This is a gaming website. For covid talk there are more then enough places to go.

@Grimwood It doesn't really help disabled gamers at launch though does it?

@Dominatso Wow. So disabled gamers should just shut up and put up with what they have? That's a great comment. MS have done a huge amount to help and prove it can be done. Sony should absolutely follow suit as a multi-billion business that proclaims inclusiveness.

@SirAngry Sony and any company should be doing what Microsoft have.

@VroomVroomSpork Exactly this.

@Tacktful Nintendo Switch Controllers and Joy-Con have updates. They also have advanced feedback. That doesn't mean they're accessible for disabilities.

@Rob_230 Xbox 360 pads are PC compatible and also compatible with the Xbox Adaptive controller. Wired USB versions of the Xbox OG Controllers also work with the Adaptive controller.

Why is there SO much hate on here? Sony and Nintendo could do better for disabled gamers. Microsoft have made great strides. But everyone should agree that making those options available for all gamers is a better thing and should be the natural choice for all hardware manufacturers.

When the article headline says 'ps4 pad' does it mean the controller or the touch pad?

So I will not be buying a PS5 because I cannot use it my thumb like many other older gamers not necessarily disabled but as far as gaming goes I guess I am technically a disabled gamer so yeah I had to put together a custom controller just so I could use my thumbs less and my other fingers more I use a custom scuf thing that was like $45 that I put together myself so with the PS5 launch until whatever companies come on with the kits that to take apart the controllers and reassemble them in the ways that are actually usable I will not be buying a PS5 unfortunately sucks to be me

You would think they would focus group these things in advance, no? I wouldnt book an event or meeting at work without thinking it all through.

This is an adjustment we're all forced to endure every generation. The controller isn a couple mm larger in some places, but most of the change is in the contours. These changes are made in part due to changes and additions in technology, but primarily focus on improving comfort and accessibility.

The whinging is premature and completely ridiculous. Remove the periphereals and it literally amounts to people crying about having to accustom themselves to new tech. Literally the same frustration we all face in this scenario, including developers. It completely ignores the fact that it was these very type of changes that allowed them the accessibilty to game in the first place. These companies have heavily focused on accessibility in recent years and assuming these changes were made in spite of that is moronic.

Sony should make a controller for disabled people like Ms did. That has nothing to do with DS4 not working with say Astro bot when you blow on it or the triggers acting like springs. DS4 simply wont work in the same way.
However a lot of games will be accessible with DS4 specially in the launch window have many cross gen / BC (and therefore DS4 supported) games.
This whole DS4 controller topic is blown out of proportion and you know why. 🤔

Edit
It would be interesting to see what the discussion was like when we found out DS3, 360 controller would not work AT ALL on ps4 xb1. 🤔 I'm curious

So Microsoft was lazy and didn't innovate and are being applauded. The console no innovation controller the same. So they are trying to use the ole political strategy. Don't look at what we didn't do we are being proconsumer. Look at bad Sony not being consumer friendly. What's funny is are eating this up.

Microsoft does a very good job of this , sony will to after they see the success should be a patch out, i use an xbox360 joypad on steam if i buy cyberpunk 2077 on steam the xbox 360 controller will still work or a dual shock 3 if you have the set up its all in the software.

@Mostik or if they did controller mapping for all new titles so more frequently used buttons will be easier to get to depending on level of function and play style.

@Cripple_Boy999 It is a very good point, you feel that this is the least they could do. I am no programmer but surely this is a pretty simple thing to implement and invaluable to those that need it! Happy to be corrected but why isn't this an option in every game?

The problem is facetted.
It's not the fact that you as a gamer with accessibility problems have to wait for there to be something out it's also that specialised controllers and parts for it costs a lot, it's extremely heavy on a budget in comparison to "just" having to buy a controller which we know can be costly enough in itself. On top there is also the need for the risk of having to have to learn to handle new software, the time it already takes to set it all up and so on. Work arounds are also fiddly and not always the most reliable especially with "outdated" hardware.

It might be available later on, but the point is that it'd be a big QoL thing to be able to have reliable support from the publishers side and not being gouged even more than avarage to have just some of the same possibilities as the average person.
Heck. You don't even have to be further from the average than having smaller hands than whatever focus group have been set as the average in focus for it to be hard to get controllers that are comfortable and usable. As the average is often very narrowed to bigger hands. Even when looking for something as simple as a gaming mouse.

@Mostik I don’t believe it would be too big of a hassle for them. I think most developers see this problem as a small issue that only affects a small group of gamers and isn’t worth their time when they could be using it in other aspects of a game. For me it is very useful though.

I think people just like to moan about anything nowadays. The controller hasn't even been released and people are complaining about it not been accessible, why don't you just wait instead of complaining, who knows it may be more accessible than you think

@Kidfried sorry it's taken so long to reply to you comment, #117, had important things that needed doing or I'd not be able to pay my bills. Any way, of course explanations of behaviour aren't necessarily an excuse for behaviour, but most excuses for behaviour usually include an explanation of the behaviour, and that's where I personally felt your comment, #91, fell afoul. Here's your comment in full:
"There's not enough money to be made from disabled gamers, so they don't include them. It's such a harsh reality, a good reminder that companies like Sony aren't here to make the world a better place."

The first part is excuse, the second part is the justification / explanation. You didn't include your own personal views, which seem contrary to what you stated in the comment, so yeah, it reads like you were excusing the behaviour of Sony and justifying it. Sure communication takes two, the person sending a message and the person receiving the message, I happen to think you could have been way clearer, you were in your follow up comment, so we've come to an understanding, but please don't think I was unjustified in seeking clarity on your initial comment, because it did sound like covering for a multi-billion dollar company. lol.

I also see you didn't respond to the part of my comment, still, which asks how you know there's no profit in catering too or including disabled gamers. That was a comment made without supporting evidence, or any understanding of the context. An internal Ubisoft survey of customers seemed to indicate that anywhere between 12% to 17% of gamers playing there games suffered from RSI, arthritis or other disability. That sounds fairly significant to me. Long and short of it is this, Sony should be doing better, and we don't need to be excusing or explaining their behaviour for them, they should do it themselves.

@GeminiEightySix because if people wait and see they might find there is no solution, so by raising their concerns, even if unfounded, they are seeking clarity, it really is that simple. If Sony can give them that clarity great, but given the guy in charge of this internally at Sony, Mark Friend, is backing these gamers up and agreeing with them that this is terrible... well, it sounds to me like Sony don't have any answers.

@__jamiie actually I don't believe that is the case. That's not to say what Microsoft are doing isn't miles better, it is. Nope, just that I personally think there has always been potentially far better and simpler solutions to all of this. @Theheadofabroom mentioned the Steam Controller API, in comment #92, Sony and Microsoft could simply allow a far greater range of devices be supported via software within their OS like this. They don't because they want more for licensed products / official products. That's a conscious decision both have made.

Microsoft made a conscious decision to build the adaptive controller and therefore include all gamers. Sony and Nintendo didn't create that. What has happened from Sony since then has been very disappointing. As the leader in the console market they should have shown how great they can be to all gamers. We shouldn't be looking to third party solutions to solve disabled gamers needs. Sony should have stepped up and made PlayStation a shining light for all gamers. Instead they chose to get other people to try to make their controller work well for people with disabilities.

@SirAngry Sony have already said that PS4 controllers will only work when playing backwards compatible games and that to play any of the new generation of games the new controller will be required, I don't think you can get more clarity than that. As for the PS4 controller not being fully compatible with the PS5, there's no reason it can't other than Sony not wanting it to be, but this isn't something new from Sony, the only time I remember the previous hardware being workable on the next generation was the PS1 & PS2 but again I think there may have been some restrictions. As for work arounds like peripherals to allow you to use a different controller these usually come from a 3rd party source, which no doubt will be released some time after the PS5. I'm a transplant recipient myself and also on dialysis, now a side effect I have from dialysis is I get uncontrollable hand spasms which occur randomly from gripping objects be it a controller, a fork, a can etc now that can happen after holding a controller for an hour likewise it can happen after holding it for 5 minutes, it's purely random, for me that's any controller I use and when it does happen these spasms can last up to an hour and the only thing I can do is put the controller down and wait.

@__jamiie @GeminiEightySix many of the solutions gamers deploy use official joypads as pass through devices, I've got some bits and bobs together myself and used my maker skills to develop solutions for two of my friends. It's actually a bit bizarre, because Sony actually make some damn fine maker boards, their Spresense boards show they can build components that allow makers to tinker and build solutions for themselves. If they gave us a maker board that worked as a joypad core we could build solutions ourselves, it'd help. So when I talk about clarity, I mean whether or not it's going be easy to just switch over current solutions and use the DualSense as a pass through device, it'll require work no question, but it's clarity aorund this I think that might help. Any way, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, and I hope thing improve for you soon.

@_jamiie, none of that I disagree with, I'm just pointing out both could do significantly better, I've even said repeatedly, multiple times that Microsoft have done a better job, just saying they could do better, and how they could do better, that's all. I think either giving people kits around which they can build specific personal solutions, and Software support for an API to allow a broader range of input devices to be used would be better.

@SirAngry I completely agree.

I'm a bit concerned about the DualSense's haptic feedback. Due to my disabilities I have to have the vibration switched off on my DualShock 3 and 4, I'm hoping that there will be the same options on PS5 because it won't be immersive for me, it will hurt!

@__jamiie
"@Dominatso Wow. So disabled gamers should just shut up and put up with what they have? That's a great comment. MS have done a huge amount to help and prove it can be done. Sony should absolutely follow suit as a multi-billion business that proclaims inclusiveness."

I said that it is ridiculous to expect Sony to support MS hardware, what he was complaining about.