The debate on PlayStation 5 exclusives is ongoing, as Microsoft continues to discuss its commitment to cross-gen releases. While it’s traditionally been expected that new consoles bring new experiences, Sony has consistently had to defend its approach to generational transitions, as the conversation gets pushed in a different direction.
Asked about this by Geoff Keighley in a recent DualSense livestream, marketing bigwig Eric Lempel explained: “A big pillar of our company is innovation: it’s a pillar of Sony Corporation and it’s also a pillar of the PlayStation company. We are always trying to push the boundaries of play – we want to excite gamers and deliver new experiences. In many cases, we can’t take everyone with us from previous consoles because you need new hardware and devices.”
Lempel reiterated that the PlayStation 4 won’t be abandoned, but titles like Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart are simply impossible on the current-gen console. He added that the features of the PS5 controller itself set the hardware apart, and help to create new experiences. Despite this, Xbox boss Phil Spencer has said that Microsoft won’t “force” fans into next-gen because this is “counter to what gaming is about”.
You can find a full list of all PS5 first-party exclusives through the link.
[source youtube.com]
Comments 98
What world are we living in where someone has to defend having new experiences on a new console, as opposed to buying a new console just because Uncle Phil told you to?
@Matroska it’s a world where the loser has to constantly attack the winner as immoral, illogical and wrong. MS is playing victim. And let’s not forget their “generation leap” is still happening they are just delaying the cut off for two years.
@Matroska Yeah, it's a bit weird. This has never really been a thing before, alas...
Phil Spencer is full of ****
@aaronanderson16
Fits perfectly in today's political day and age!! 🤦♂️
Phil's rationale here seems a bit unfair at best. That phrase Is a poor justification for the lack of next gen caliber games on the new Xbox. Just work hard on your first party line up, man. Don't need to be all smart about how to twist public view of your console with this ***** philosophy. Gamers want great games - that's what its all actually about.
Aside from Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart how many games actually need the PS5 to run? I know the PS4's CPU, RAM, and hard disk can be bottlenecks, but I'm not so convinced everything that is next-gen exclusive needs to be. Same with Scorn on Series X, I doubt that couldn't run on the Xbone.
Microsoft isn't making next-gen only games because they wouldn't be playable by a lot of their Gamepass owners and would devalue the service for them. I can see Microsoft extending this position longer than stated if take up of the Series X is slower than predicted. It's all about Gamepass.
I've always purchased new consoles to get new experiences not possible on the old hardware. Glad to see Sony continue with what has been the standard in the past.
The funny thing is, Sony improving the base line, benefits pc gaming as well. Also, when i buy a new phone, i exciter new things that couldn't be done on the old phone. Nobody is forcing me to buy a new phone, but the adoption of new technology should be rewarded with new exclusive experiences.
Sony is in the right here, it's 1st party jobs to shows what the new console can do, it's weird if they're chained to old console limitations.
It's kind of funny that phill says they don't like console war yet all he's doing is flaming it, taking shots at sony whenever he can. The last time sony taking shot at microsoft is 7 years ago when sony shows "how to lend games" video on youtube.
Granted, it's hell of a burn, lasting 7 years and beyond lol.
@NeonTiger Lol spoken like a true Sony fan, basing yourself comment on pure personal opinion, considering Microsoft hasn’t had their event yet highlighting its games I find your comment to be, well rather sad really.
@BearsEatBeets Wrong, Microsoft have stated it is entirely up to the developer if they want it make a game exclusively for the Series X or if it will make one that will also play on the Xbox One. Get your facts right.
@wiiware I think one year at E3 or PSX a Sony dev said f*** xbox and had to apologise later as he received so much flack for it. Maybe 2016
I remember when they had showcased Fifa on ps3 to ps4 and spoke of how they could add in extra details that couldn't be added on ps3 due to the hardware may that being the boy balls or just small intricate details, that doesnt sound like much but it makes it more realistic to play. Its not all about graphics but take black ops 3 thats on ps4 compared to ps3 they had to drop buildings and many other things not only that the graphics because of the limitations compared to ps4s tech it will be similar in terms of ps5 the graphics comparison may not be huge but detailing fine lines and adding in extra bits in games will make the difference and to some people they notice these things especially in comparison videos you find on you tube side by sides. Also like alot of people say gives you new experiences im all up for buying a new console but if you dont gain much is there much point upgrading at launch if there is a small margin I would rather stay with my ps4.
@get2sammyb kind of like backwards compatibility. Was never a thing until a certain console maker had no games.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s a nice feature, but I never had time for old stuff when there’s just too much new stuff to play
@S1ayeR74 Just referring to first-party, much like Phil Spencer was.
@swagbag713 honestly
@swagbag713 Yep. It might have something to do with the articles here fanning the flames rather than being reasonable and chill about it.
@wiiware There is no right or wrong here. It's a preference thing. Just because you prefer one thing, doesn't make the other thing wrong. It's like telling people who like pineapple on pizza they are wrong. You might not like it, and you don't have to, but that doesn't make their way of enjoying pizza wrong.
@BearsEatBeets
Quite right.
Here I've fixed that last quote from Philled Sphincter in the article now.
Despite this, Xbox boss Phil Spencer has said that Microsoft won’t “force” fans into next-gen because this is “counter to what gamepass is about”.
@Vincent294 'm not convinced you have the knowledge to make these claims.
baseless opinions are just that. baseless.
I do really doubt though, that you have insider info on the upcoming ps5 games system requirements.
Gaming has always and I mean always been about new hardware bringing new experiences. I’m no fanboy but Xbox are talking nonsense. Why release new hardware if game are available and capable to be put on current gen. stupid.
The way to “not leave people behind” is solid Backward compatibility and allow people to upgrade and play their old collection. Something that should be standard by now but it’s still not.
I look forward to next gen each time to decide which to buy right back to mega drive/SNES and it’s always been tricky until last gen... and looks like it’s an easy decision again. I have a Xbox1 so I can experience all their games and exclusives without paying a penny - I’ll be getting a ps5 with the current information.
Honestly, Spencer can eff off with his "not going to be forcing people into next-gen" BS. They're planning to discontinue the One X and the All-Digital Edition as the Series X launches. Gee, I don't know about you, but giving consumers practically no choice but to buy the newest Xbox system seems an awful lot like "forcing" it to me.
It's the only reason I stay a Sony fan is because of the exclusives of each console.
On one hand, I understand what Phil Spencer is going for and the fact that not everyone can afford Next Gen RIGHT NOW.
Then again, next gen is about making new experiences with new hardware, not with the same old. I'll probably get the PS5 within a year either way, but I might keep my Xbox One for another year or two, as I don't need a Series X, as exclusives will also be on Xbox One, and also XCloud. Might even go for the cheaper Series S tbh.
@BearsEatBeets So was I.... as I said get your facts right. So much rubbish being spread about the Series X and Microsoft’s strategy.
MS making the wrong decision here imo. I suppose their strategy really is gamepass and subs because even a die-hard xbox fan who has an X1X would be hard pressed to upgrade. I know I felt burned by Xbox this gen on the exclusive front- but for the next 2 years i wont have to worry about if they make a good one. I can play it on my launch xbox1 lol. I doubt i will though. Once Sony shows games that arent held back by 8 year old tech it is going to be obvious. I mean Sony said games they showed just arent possibly on ps4- that tells me Xbox games are handcuffed from a design standpoint. So it'll look prettier and have better fps and draw distances with less texture pop in etc. It'll still be an Xbox1 game with bells and whistles.
The irony of Phils stance is that the most interesting games so far for Xbox are next gen exclusives in The Medium and Scorn.
The reason I'll be buying PS5 is because I want to play new games that aren't possible with current consoles. I'd much rather the developers have the freedom to create whatever they want with the hardware available and not have to think if it'll work on a PS4.
If anything I have little reason to buy Series X at launch as their new games will play on my One X anyway.
@S1ayeR74 you don’t think there’s an equal amount of rubbish being said about Sony’s strategy? I mean in this article it’s Phil Spencer shoveling the crap towards Sony, but he’s just doing his job, trying to lure people to XSX. @bearseatbeets is correct that Gamepass has turn into such a cash cow for them. So when Phil says he doesn’t want to force people into a new gen of hardware it’s because their current base of Gamepass users are still a gen behind.
As with most things both extremes are wrong. Saying all games must work on the old hardware limits for creative use of the new hardware. Saying you cannot release new games of the old hardware denies people who haven’t upgraded access to experiences they might otherwise have enjoyed. It’s best to leave it up to the discretion of the individual first party studios to follow their own plans.
All the crap Phil has been saying has made me question in i should even get the new xbox. I own a one x and it it an amazing console, but the lack of exclusives means i play on it once a week for a couple of hours and now im wondering if the series x is even worth it. Oh well, ill getbthe PS5 and we havwbto wait and see where microsoft goes.
@Aexurion exactly. It’s actually becoming very sad that I see similar trends in political discussions and game company discussions. It’s annoying
@art_of_the_kill Except those that have the choice to buy an xbox one s, or (and this is who this strategy is really for) the people who now have the choice to stay with their current xbox console.
I mean, people need to calm down and think about this for a moment. If the XSX sold really well and sold 10 million units per year, there'd still be at least 20ish million xbox one owners who still haven't upgraded to next gen, and those people would still be able to buy in to all the 1st party and cross buy games, rather than left behind.
Not to mention this is a strat taken by MS and not Sony, so why is this upsetting you guys so much?
Two sides of the same coin, they both want to make money. Too many assumptions being made without all the facts. Exclusives drive console sales and that increases the amount of people in your ecosystem. Sony already has an unfair start by selling in excess of 100 million PS4s. Once you factor in brand loyalty and the trophy or achievements system and many people will be unlikely to jump ship. I think both have cracking hardware, but if your paying for a new console you want it to stand out from what you had before. Friend has a X1X his only upgrade path is a Series X, the 23rd is make or break on getting the console on launch or waiting a year. I'm already on board for a PS5 at launch 👍
@Matroska
It's just an awful load of hypocrisy on the one hand and stupidity from the crowd on the other.
And that's exactly what I want to hear. Keep pushing those boundaries, keep exclusive games where they belong. If someone doesn't want to buy a PlayStation to play the games YOU developed for it that's their problem, you owe them nothing.
Just because Phil has no exclusives and screwed up doesn't mean you should do the same. Very soon, after launch he'll realise his big mistake, Xbox's days are numbered.
Just keep doing what you've done for 25 years. Just like Nintendo you'll be fine because like them PlayStation is the only place to play your games.
Phil Spencer I agree................it is counter to what gaming is about faster loading times is not going to shift more PS5 units.
Owned every Playstation console my loyalty was because of all things Japanese I will not be making the leap to PS5 I will switch and wait for PS6.
Besides look at the shiny new games around the corner for my beloved PS4 proves theres still life in the not too old gal.
@BearsEatBeets next-gen only games may yet be playable on xbo's through gamepass/xcloud. My phone, galaxy a20, is nowhere near capable of playing console games and yet with ps4 remote play and xcloud, I could play games the likes of GoW and Halo 5. Imagine a more stable online infrastructure, like home internet, and waaay better hardware. I could imagine gamepass streaming an xbsx title, to a xbo. Which would make xbsx exclusives, nonexistent, but not held back/limited. So here's hoping to that.
@swagbag713 I doubt they have a playstation............just come on and comment no law against it I suppose but I get your point.
Why do we even have this conversation. It's been normal to buy new hardware to keep up with the mainstream community for decades. No problem story.
Xbox - we got cross play nah nah Sony havent
PS - we dont need it, having 100,000,000 users around the world
Xbox - Well we give away our release day games!
PS - Because our games are made with passion, skill and expert craft. People don't mind paying for them.
Xbox - Well our new gen games are gonna work on old hardware. Go us.
PS - I don't think the new GT could work on the xbox 1, in fact it would probably blow up trying.
Xbox - We have game pass and it's great like Netflix for games
PS - well that's great we have PS Now which has more games and is a sideline as we devote our time to new experiences like VR and new SSD.
Xbox - Well we are gonna port games to Nintendo
PS - Well we can just game on switch then.
Xbox - not all of our games haha just some
PS - Are you okay xbox?
Xbox - Yeah, why wouldn't I be. Just look at our game plan.
Sony - Game plan?
Xbox - Yeah we're deep in 9th Inning and about to hit a home run.
Sony - You do realise we make 'the show'?
Xbox - Errr I meant we have a sure fire win.
Sony - like the microtransactions you put in all your games?
Xbox - wow Sony would you just back off, always going on about our deficiencies. Its bullying and I won't have it. Cries.
Sony - cheer up mate. Here's a copy of Astrobot for PSVR.
Xbox - now I can't stop thinking about our kinect which never worked properly sob sob sob.
Sony - wow xbox heres a hug
Xbox - but we have to social distance waaaaahhhh!
Sony - I realise its an unfair fight but with enough care, attention and innovation you could make a comeback.
Xbox - (looks at Phil Spencer) Where's the vodka?
@get2sammyb It has been a thing for most multi-platform releases since the launch of the PS3 and 360. Extremely common for third parties to do what MS is doing (minus giving away the free upgrade.)
@wiiware
> "Sony is in the right here, it's 1st party jobs to shows what the new console can do, it's weird if they're chained to old console limitations."
I think you all have taken this a little too far with assuming that the games are going to be "vastly inferior" just because they have to be downgraded from new Gen to current Gen consoles for the sake of cross Gen support.
Until game developers say as much, I do not believe this to be the case.
I also think it gives people an option to not have to upgrade their console and save money in these times of hardship when money is not easy to come by. It is not a bad idea for a company to overlap their current Gen's relevance while their new Gen makes its appearance.
It is so weird for people not to understand that.
>It's kind of funny that phill says they don't like console war yet all he's doing is flaming it, taking shots at sony whenever he can.
Sony doesn't have to do much. People like the ones in comment sections I have seen, all are more than enough to encite these wars on their own. It's like dealing with Sony's holy army where Sony can do no wrong. It is hard to reason with fanboys at times.
>The last time sony taking shot at microsoft is 7 years ago when sony shows "how to lend games" video on youtube.
There have been other occasions as well.
>Granted, it's hell of a burn, lasting 7 years and beyond lol.
Remember when Sony claimed that people should find value in high priced ps3? Buy it even if they have to work extra? because it was just that great a value? Hubris at its finest.
@themcnoisy what the heck was that?
Microsoft's policy is great for the neutrals like me. I know I can go out and buy my shiny new ps5 safe in the knowledge that I'll not miss any Xbox exclusives because I can play them on the Xbox I already own. Then in 2 yrs time I can upgrade to series X if I choose to.
Innovation is great too though. Most important I'd say. I'll continue to get that from Sony.
Neutrality ftw.
@MasterEMFG
>"@get2sammyb kind of like backwards compatibility. Was never a thing until a certain console maker had no games."
I can't believe the nonsense you are throwing in this sentence here. Xbox has games just like Ps4. You simply do not like the games Xbox has as exclusives.
>Don’t get me wrong. It’s a nice feature, but I never had time for old stuff when there’s just too much new stuff to play
I am unsure a new division 3 is going to be released on Xbox series x or ps5, but I will continue playing that game until a new one comes out. I do not want to stack consoles underneath my tv or by my computer. I want to put one machine and be given the choice to play my previous games.
Your destiny 2 is going to have to work on ps5 as well btw.
It's a great thing.
@themcnoisy just maybe in your head the conversation seems to be biased and in favour of Sony?
I do not believe in any of the nonsense you wrote above. Both console makers have their up's and downs. Stop trying to make one sound more intelligent than they are, especially with their past filled with hubris.
@NeutronBomb a very valid argument and I agree with you.
I have a ps4 pro for when I find something I wish to play. But in my case, I have an Xbox one x where I want to play with people I know. I have all 3 consoles.
Phil speaks more rubbish then a Politician 1 min he's saying Exclusives don't matter then he's saying 2 years and we r good 2 go then hes saying can we end the consoles war then hes slating sony then a few days later hes saying sony arent in there sights apple and Google are he needs 2 make his mind either its sony there gunning 4 or its apple and if its apple hes taking on a monster the biggest and 1 of the richest in the world if xbox cant beat sony they have got no chance at the big apppe ive already made my mind up ps5 all the way why because I can play all xbox games on a pc (thanx phill) so y buy the xbox id like a few of my old games 2 work u no mw (2019) last of us2 but other then that I want new games not them remasterd bull brand new pure ps5 games with the new hardware new features from day1 not 2years later and when Phil is on stage and he's got that smile on his face like the sun sets in his crack how many of u would like 2 chin him ive always been PlayStation always will
We are all tech heads and always want to have the best available technology. But buyers WANT selling points that sell these consoles to them.. Sony has the right formula that works that’s why they’ve dominated last gen. The studios are trying new game ideas and coming out of their comfort zone. Taking Guarallia games and Suckapunch both producing two solid new games that are LOVED!
To sell a new piece of hardware you have to give the buyer reasons to want to buy it and what it can do better then the previous model. This is seeing our favourite games play and look so much better and Sony is doing this just right! It’s looking what gamers want and what works and what doesn’t work!
They are hitting the exclusives on the head and they are giving gamers more choice on the hardware then previous gen. I seem to think they lacked a little on controller designs and giving the gamers a more personal look I feel Microsoft did this solid this gen! But looks like Sony is filling this gap this gen.
It does my head in what Phil is saying. Sony aren’t forcing next gen on anyone. With the new consoles soon to be released, it’s common sense that people expect next gen games. Phil is only saying this as he admitted himself that Xbox series x won’t have proper exclusives till at least 2 years time. So why don’t xbox delay the series x to be released till 2 years time? And also Phil talks about not forcing next gen, but this is the same people, who have stopped making Xbox one x consoles. Why not just have the Xbox one x as the lead console for at least another 2 years? Total bs from Phil & he’s only saying it to cover Xbox short comings on next gen exclusives. Sony have left the PS4 in the sunset off last of us 2 & ghosts. Xbox have had the most powerful console made & didn’t make anything that truly showed off what it can do.
@Richnj Unfortunately (for xbox) I'm sure I'm in the right here. I guess we have to see the number of next-gen console sold to see who's right. Do people buy new things to play games that's designed for 7 years old console, or to play new exciting games that's only possible because new generation power.
@TrolleyProblems Actually, there's already game devs from microsoft that says this, they make one of exclusive games for xbox x only, the medium (https://www.explica.co/bloober-team-explains-why-the-medium-will-not-come-to-xbox-one/).
Quote from the devs: In theory, any game idea could be re-examined, but in our case it would mean completely changing the main characteristics. Thanks to the power of the Xbox Series X, we can develop the game in the way we have always imagined, said the creative.
@TheFinalBoss710 @TrolleyProblems here are the xbox fans, with your awesome banter. Gonna drink a beer, you can sup your Fanta. Marcus Phownix gives you kicks, beat years ago by the order 1886, crackdown wow what you done? Slapped on down by Infamous second son. But you got Master Chief, battered by Sackboy in his sleep, cortana eeek here's a horde, of playstation fans we got on board. So why dya come to a PS site and speak a ton of xbot *****? We got Aloy you got hmmmm, we got Nate you got hmmmm, we got cloud - mate we got cloud, and not that cloud you claimed was sound. We got Dreams you have depression, We got Astro for an upbeat session, we got games which are fantastic - epics acclaim is pretty emphatic, PS5 is where its at, for all of gaming off the bat, let's look forward the futures great, it's not the summer of 2008. 360 - yeah that was brill, red ring of death but otherwise chill, good times and memories but thats so then, when GTA V wasn't in the top ten. This is gaming there is no choice - between a behemoth and a Jealous voice, xbox wake up - stop beating this drum, competitions good for everyone, offering nothing and clinging on, to the absolute disaster of xbox 1.
I would expect a few current gen ports to next gen, but not the other way around, not in the long term at least, that will only ever hold the technology back. That's like demanding 6 year old mobile devices to run games and apps that barely work on current mobile phones.
@themcnoisy the moment you started nonsense in poetry for Sony, I was done with you. Reason and logic falls on deaf ears in your case.
Simply put, I have a ps4 pro. I have hdz. I have unchartered series.
I also have full master chief collection, all gears, and no Forza.
I also have switch with Zelda. Mario's and every thing else.
The point is, I am not a fanboy. I just have issue with "fanboys", whether it's you a Sony pony or an xbot.
My issue is with those who sing praises for one side and b**** about the other. Whether it is your side or the other, it is simply stupid.
@wiiware by that logic, no games should come to Xbox or ps, because pc is simply more powerful.
The point is, most developers are ok with it. Some make peace with sticking with one. Others can support both. It's in developers hand. No one is forced.
MS is supporting Xbox one platform for 1 to 2 years. Sony is still producing Ps4.
At the end of the day, both companies are doing the exact same thing. One however doesn't like to highlight it as a positive thing, other does.
@wiiware If people only played on new consoles for games that are only possible with next generation power, the Switch wouldn't be as successful as it is.
And I mean, you can obsess over every single unit sold to determine if you are enjoying your console of choice, and prove you're "right" but that would mean anybody who bought, played and enjoyed a PS3 were "wrong", because it lost to the Wii.
Or, and stick with me because this is going to get crazy, but maybe your enjoyment of a console and its games shouldn't be tied to ideas of "console wars" and their 'newness' or graphical capabilities. Maybe, games can be enjoyed at any level, and what Nintendo and Xbox are offering is just a different level for gamers who aren't constantly chasing the horizon.
@TheFinalBoss710
That's where you're wrong. The first Exclusive is Spider-Man Miles Moralace which launches before Christmas this year. Demon Souls and Horizon 2 are rumoured for around February. Every single one of those games launch in less than one year. Watch the reveal again and check the dates at the bottom of each one.
@Richnj absolutely fantastic response. Well said.
if you think Sony has produced enough quality titles on PS4 then you're delusional, if you generally think there isn't enough on PS4 then you're delusional, ps5 is a carrot, ps5 with ps5 exclusives is carrot cake
Sony dont even need to defend themselves lol. MS are spouting some serious desperate nonsense lol. Its so silly.
@themcnoisy You might want to add a trigger warning, that was some serious cringe. I seriously hope you are no older than eight. The two comments you made in this article are some of the absolute worst of all time and you have some growing up to do. And some English lessons to partake in. Totally juvenille and asinine.
I think Sony will still continue to release great exclusives, but damn, fanboys on both sides seem to have the combined IQ of half of a gnat.
@aaronanderson16
Oh, it definitely is!
Where lots of money is involved they infect each other with sad traits that seems to spread faster than Covid-19 seems to do. There's no ignoring that.
@TrolleyProblems It's not stupid though, my responses may be a bit silly but the points are valid. Microsoft wants it's customers in a never ending subscription akin to Microsoft Office. High price - low content with the same old tripe rolled out. It's their business strategy. I don't like were MS are taking xbox to be honest but PC is their natural domain.
Sorry for offending you, I was only having fun. I game on everything too.
@TheFatPonyo love the way you took my original comment so seriously. Look at this, '. A massive install base with low software sales = failure.'
If you really want to advise me on partaking in grammar classes, then you should revisit school and learn basic maths. Unlike TP above you are clearly a troll, coming onto a PS site to act all grandiose about your xbox fanatasicm. It's a playstation site, here's the xbox website you have been searching for, feel free to talk to these people instead;
www.samaritans.org
So Microsoft continues to say they will support current gen yet at the same time discontinued the Xbox One X? They want people to move forward to. They don't want people on the old gen. They are doing some cool things but they really need to focus on the games. Hopefully they can do that this coming gen. But by then it will prob be to late at least for me. I'm going PS5 this gen. Currently PS4. And before that, even tho I had a PS4, I was invested in the 360. It all came down to the games ..... And the fact PS4 had party chat lol
@themcnoisy
I didn't say anything about install base, sales, or Xbox, what kind of drugs are you on?
And about your comment...don't worry, after that post, nobody will ever take you seriously.
@Stocksy so why does my death stranding look and play a heck of a lot better than your version on ps4? Not to mention even way better than the guy with a pc that was just middle of the road in 2013.
The point is games have can and always will run based on the hardware they have access to and it's not TOO much more work to tune games to work on multiple spec levels.
Say what you want but my pc today can and would run circles even around your "next gen" console.
Seeing how microsoft will have not only the most powerful of the consoles but also the weakest (through support of original Xbox) and it will just go to show the ability of devs to down scale their games which they've been doing for pc now for years.
Oh look, another Push Square comment thread riddled with hate, ignorance and hypocrisy 😞
@Richnj The reason switch is successful because it's a handheld that play exclusive games, zelda botw and mario oddyssey. And switch is not shackled by old gen, nintendo throws wii u like a bad habit after the switch launch lol, the switch is not hindered by the wii u.
@TrolleyProblems The problem with that statement is nobody cares about pc since AAA games sells less on pc compared to console, that's the reason gta 5 and red dead 2 is not launching as the same time as console. I don't even remember the last time there's AAA pc exclusives that aren't available on console. There's that AAA mmo spaceships and that's it.
Also most of pcgamer didn't have $1000 vga card, just looks at steam hardware surveys, most of successful pc games is the one with old bad graphcis like csgo, wow, and mobas.
I understand why microsoft does this, they know their new console will not be as successful as ps5 so they don't want to develops games exclusively for it, where as sony (and nintendo) knows that if they make compelling exclusives for their console, many will buy their console.
Heck, sony least successful console (ps3) sells about 87M, they're know their going to sells ps5 as long as the price is right.
Anyone who says otherwise is full of poop, it's as simple as that. When a a new console release's the majority of people what to see games that are only possible on that hardware, because it helps to justify the money they've just spent otherwise there is zero point in buying said new hardware.
@wiiware The Switch being portable, or it having exclsuives, or it being "hindered" by the Wii U (which is a funny argument to make considering the power similarities and regular Wii U ports), or the Wii U's failure don't actually address the argument being made here.
Switch games are highly praised and are selling very well despite the lack of power.
I've also noticed you've changed your tune on what constitutes a successful console. Which is something you should keep in mind. Xbox division has been profitable for the last couple of years at least. Not because of high number of console units sold, but because of services and games being sold. And unsurprisingly, MS are going to focus on selling services and games rather than units in to the future.
@wiiware
>The problem with that statement is nobody cares about pc since AAA games sells less on pc compared to console, that's the reason gta 5 and red dead 2 is not launching as the same time as console.
This makes me wonder why every fanboy always claims to go with "I don't need other console when I have ps and pc combo".
I understand that people ***** when it comes to making their stories believeable.
>I don't even remember the last time there's AAA pc exclusives that aren't available on console. There's that AAA mmo spaceships and that's it.
Agreed.
>Also most of pcgamer didn't have $1000 vga card, just looks at steam hardware surveys, most of successful pc games is the one with old bad graphcis like csgo, wow, and mobas.
Yep. I agree. It's one of the main reasons why I wonder how I am so fortunate that every fanboy I speak to ends up being one of these elites who carry 4000 worth of pc.
I wonder how many of them just throw this ***** to make their console choice sound credible.
>I understand why microsoft does this, they know their new console will not be as successful as ps5 so they don't want to develops games exclusively for it, where as sony (and nintendo) knows that if they make compelling exclusives for their console, many will buy their console.
At the same time, I doubt that people will be able to put together a pc that can reliably put out graphics and frames in same class as the new consoles coming out this November.
Basically, what you said above about vga cards is pretty much why I believe that putting games both on Xbox and pc isn't because they believe their console won't sell.
It's simply their platforms. Both of them are their platforms.
I am not going to make random predictions for now regarding who will sell what and how much. It is not worth it discussing it.
>Heck, sony least successful console (ps3) sells about 87M, they're know their going to sells ps5 as long as the price is right.
It isn't only because Ps /Sony gets the price right. Ps is nostalgic for alot of us who started gaming way back in the day and purchased a ps1. We found it to be amazing back then, when compared to any other console out there.
I am quite comfortable in saying that ps2 was amazing. People have had fond memories around 2 of Sony's consoles before Xbox og even found its footing. Xbox honestly couldn't compare to ps2.
While Xbox 360 had rrod issue. It wasn't a bad console at all. Rather decent. I couldn't afford ps3 in 2008. My parents weren't able to afford it. I bought my 360 and ps3 in year 2011.
Ps4 VS Xbox one is rather simple to discuss.
Xbox axed it's own strategy by placing ass***** in charge of its marketing and management. Ps4 used that momentum and dashed to finish line.
Continuation...
It is not that Sony is doing something remarkable. It is a combination of people's nostalgia, experiences from their gaming time when they were young, and their competitors just being plain stupid that got them where they are.
With that said, MS has put quite a bit of effort in turning things around. They have done a very decent job at it.
I also believe that I can't find even one site that comes close to favoring Xbox like this ones bias/favour towards Sony. I mean we have got a joker above who is reciting poems for Sony while bashing microsoft.
Media has strength. Bias makes it tough to guage things. Finding neutral opinion is tough.
Being owner of all ps, some vaios, surface machines and two generations of Xbox, I can tell you that I will put my trust in Microsoft's service far before I will in Sony's service.
Their vaio machines burnt me hard. I have lost abit of trust in them.
Also, let's not forget the hubris that sony has shown in past. Ms isn't the only one that has made mistakes. Sony has made some too.
@Richnj I agree. It is precisely why I believe that Microsoft doesn't care which platform you buy/play games on, as long as it's pc or Xbox. Their key performance indicator isn't entirely reliant on sales of console any more. They guage success differently, as you mentioned, by the sales of subscription now.
It would be nice if people understood this.
The PlayStation fanbase has been on the decline for a while now (every gen the "winner" does this), but this is a new low.
When you see the Xbox One, budget PCs, or heck, the Switch play the same games the PS4 Pro "can't" you'll understand a little better the game Sony is playing here.
@TrolleyProblems In the end, I think all console maker right now going with their own separate ways, sony with classic console strategy (with a dash of pc port sometimes), microsoft with subscription service, and nintendo with half console, half portable solutions. It's a bit of fresh air really
And I actually want them all to succeed, I'll buy playstation for exclusive and 3rd party games, I bought switch for their exclusive games and the switch is perfect for playing indies, and I have gamepass subs for pc.
@Richnj Correct me if I wrong, but we never see the xbox division succeesful or not since their division is combined with other divisions, usually succesful division (like playstation) is being separated so investors can see that their profits and invest more on their parent company. I think microsoft isn't chasing after console sales anymore, rather they're more focused on subs numbers.
@TheFinalBoss710 You're a pleasant little fella!
🙄
@wiiware You can Google 'xbox division profits/revenue'. It's been taking in around $10bn a year for the last couple of years, which seems to be roughly equal to what Nintendo took in. It is also around (at a rough guess) 60% of what PS took. A difference that is understandable given how well the PS4 has done. From what I can gather, that's been around a $1bn in profit. And that seems on target for MS who last made $125bn revenue, of which around $10bn was profit.
There's also info on how there's more active monthly xbox users than Xbox One consoles. Game Pass subs continues to grow too. Again, confirming why Xbox is trying to grow subs and users.
@Richnj That's pretty good, although I think most of it's revenue is from minecraft, which is one of the biggest games in the world. And their profits will only grows since they're releasing their exclusive games everywhere from their own pc store, to steam, and switch.
It seems microsoft can make good games but not good enough that they can sells it exclusively on their hardware/pc store. I think by the end of next-gen we will have xbox games on ps5 or ps6
@wiiware I'm sure I've heard them say they'd put Xbox Live on PS if they could. Obviously they have with Switch. I think the biggest hurdle to getting Xbox on PS, is Sony themselves. They aren't going to want to pay MS for an OS. Though you never know. There may come a future where MS provide the software and Sony provide the hardware. It's definitely something Sony does with their phones and did with their laptops.
But you are right, MS is making lots of money on multiplatform games. I think the end goal is making 'Xbox' the game equivalent of 'Windows'. They may still make their own hardware like the Surface devices, but the focus will be on software.
Quite frankly, with Nintendo at least, I'd rather be using Xbox services than what is currently available on the platform. A fully featured and unified system (and with free MP if recent rumours are true) would be an exciting prospect. Though I doubt that will be a reality within the next generation.
Seems like Microsoft is digging a hole again when the new Xbox can only play games that are on XBox One! A retro machine for the first 2 years.
@Richnj I think microsoft will be more successful if they're in gaming software business rather than hardware, I definitely buy gears and others microsoft ip if they're available on ps, even though I can already play them "free" on xbox pc app. Make gamepass pc their main platform, and sells their software on anywhere else.
And maybe making custom expensive surface compact pc like alienware, it will be cool to have series x like casing but with windows 10 (and steam) inside
So far, Ratchet & Clank seems to be the only game I saw on Sony's showcase that isn't possible on PS4.
Demon's Souls? Remove ray-traced effects and downgrade textures. Boom PS4 possible. It's also a remake, so, it's not exactly a new game that requires a PS5 to play (the PS3 version is just as highly-regarded and only $20 on PSN - and if you argue that not everyone has a PS3 to play the original, then you are only strengthening Microsoft's argument for focusing on backwards compatibility).
Gran Turismo? Remove ray-traced effects and downgrade textures. Boom PS4 possible
Spider-Man? Use the PS4 engine.
Horizon might not be possible on PS4 - it depends on what else the new hardware is doing with that game with AI. Visually, the game could just need foliage reduced, draw distances reduced, and textures reduced to be PS4 possible. I also don't see Horizon being available until late 2021, so it's getting close to the end of cross-generation anyways.
I am not here to bash the PS5 by any means. I am excited to get one to play Sony-exclusive games. But, so far, only Ratchet & Clank and maybe Horizon stood out as the "needs new hardware" game - and I am not even interested in Ratchet & Clank.
Keep in mind that Microsoft's approach to cross-generation only applies to Xbox Game Studio games.. Microsoft showed The Medium, which Bloober Team said is only possible on Series X. The developers of Scorn also said that the game wasn't possible on current generation - though it is also a PC game, so I guess it will be "hindered" by also being a PC game (at least according to opinions on this site that it will be "hindered").
Bottom line: by the time PS5 starts getting it's influx of 1st-party games that are impossible on PS4, that is when Microsoft's cross-gen window for it's own games expires. So Microsoft's strategy isn't entirely absurd.
However, I don't think Microsoft's messaging is going to make Series X consoles fly off the shelves at launch except by those who really want the speed and visual upgrades of the new system (or the Xbox One version of these new games run like utter garbage).
Then again, that doesn't appear to matter to Microsoft - I guess being a trillion dollar company simply by running the worlds computing has it's advantages.
@swagbag713 No man I was agreeing with you sorry if I upset you.
Phil Spencer contradicts himself constantly.
will say it again how he is still working at Xbox baffles me.
@wiiware you are absolutely right about that. To be honest I am happy with all 3 and will be upgrading soon enough. I enjoy games way too much to pick a side and force my self not to buy the other's console.
Pleasure speaking to you bud.
They just want you to buy a new console. I'm so sick of the whole it won't run it excuse. First The Outer World's tried it and it was laughable. Now Sony tries it.
It has nothing to do with whether it would work or not. It has to do with making you buy a new console. Also the whole down porting conversation is silly because most consoles have similar architecture nowadays. It's barely a port.
The Switch is only special because of what it has to use to be portable.
@Arugula life is about playing what ur happy with. Yeah games age like hardware but that won't take away the element of nostalgia and having an immersed experience on an older game. Even this gen people are still playing ps2 games and ps3 so ur comment is a big pile of hot turd. Aslong as people enjoy gaming and like them, then good for them. Have u even played got or tlou2 or even ff7 remake. It shows that despite having older hardware u can still get great results and great games regardless of power and speed. Consumerism is a bitch, god even on xbox one, 360 titles look amazing, try dead space and tell me u don't still feel immersed in that environment.and all for next gen but I'm not gonna rush myself just because sony or ms want us to.
MS have only been able to do one thing this current gen and that's change the long gap between new consoles, but they failed with that and had to re-release Xbox 1 with the X version. Because that is what the console should have been and now they want to do it again and basically forget about X1 completely.
And next gen they will still be playing catch up because I can't see any new exclusives for 2 years after launch
MS still trying to spin having no next-gen games.
No, Sony, you can. You just don't want to. I can bet that lots of the new games that will come out on the PS5 will be again locked on 30fps too.
The biggest mistake Sony could make is to change their strategy. Exclusive games sell hardware, that is a fact. Nintendo proved it and Sony proved it. The industry doesn't need to change because of an overweight mouthpiece called Phil who's only objective is to try and force Sony into making a mistake.
Phil Spencer is a wind up artist trying to stir s***. He says one thing and does the opposite. He has now started the mother of all console wars and then says console wars are not good for the games industry.
I can't wait until the 23rd July to see this great line up M$ has that is going to revolutionise gaming. It's laughable the bull he is sprouting. More boring Halo and God knows what.
@TheFinalBoss710 you seriously think VA and SFS put Xbox on “par” with ps5?? Smh
Then you clearly have no idea how both works.
VA and specially SFS a smart solution and ground breaking, is really impressive.
No doubt about it and
no one should downplay it.
But Ps5 IO storage system is just on another level, and to say it’s on par is just simple stupid and wishful bias/fanboy talk.
“Sampler FeedBack Streaming”
「What SFS enables is fine-grained control to stream in/out parts of a mip.」
(Jame Renard, the guy working with SFS)
Thus making Xbox’s ssd more efficient and effective but while texts are the most demanding, there’s other assets and works need to be done as well.
So SFS alone doesn’t close the “gap” between ps5 I/O storage system.
PS5’s solution is, not just independent from the CPU but also has a very minimized communication cost.(“Accessing even a small memory array costs way more then doing an operation”) and with over 2 times I/O throughput compared to Xbox. With (seems like everybody’s forgetting now) the 12 channel flash memory, DMA controller, two I/O co-processors, coherency engines, GPU cache scrubbers and SRAM cache.
@TheFinalBoss710
Xbox explains SFS as this.
Consider a game that wants to load 20GB of data.
Which is quite misleading.
Let’s be fair, first of why should we assume ps5 needs to load the full 20gb of data? We know ps5 can do Sampler Feedback. And most likely will use Oodle With Kraken as well.
(Note: SF and SFS is NOT the same thing.)
Secondly, since both companies work in the same space they likely know the challenges as much as the other.
PS marketing doesn’t seem to be interested or focus on fancy names and marketing tech.
There’s still a lot of what we don’t know about the PS5 and it wouldn’t be a surprised if they already worked on this as well.
Take Unreal Engine 5, no doubt SFS is a great feature but next-gen more likely have other good solutions as well.
Anyway, if a game is asking 20gb of “text” data for Xbox it will only be 8gb, thanks to SFS that is truly impressive no question about it.
BUT that’s not the end of the whole of the story is it?
SFS will essentially free up a significant amount of RAM to be use else where in the system.
Since there’s still other assets like mocap, model shape, audio, etc etc.
and there’s still other works and operations, the file request, the mapping and checking still all happen within the cpu core for Xbox, while none of this is on the PS5 cpu, the DMA controller can communicate with the SSD controller to allocate memory virtually itself and the management, file checks and mapping to page tables is all done within the 2 dedicated code processor along side another pool of SRAM which feeds through SSD and is likely a faster local cache that ties into the other features this entire memory subsystem has in those GPU scrubbers.
Again, communication cost is prohibitively expensive.
Xbox VA and SFS both works with the GPU and the CPU as well.
And they need to communicate with each other to work.
Communication is a big bottleneck in performance for modern processors.
“Accelerator design is guided by cost.”
“Accessing even a small memory array costs way more than doing an operation
And a lot of what we think of memory cost today is really communication cost”
(William Dally, Nvidia Chief Scientist)
PS5 microarchitecture is much, much more focused on the I/O then Xbox.
With all the costume hardware PS5’s solution is for better communication
and being completely independent from the CPU, thus “eliminating the bottlenecks”.
And this, is just a part of the ps5 I/O complex.
SFS, a single accelerator of software and hardware filter combination specialized for textures is NOT going to do that or what the other accelerators for specialized work load does, that is implemented on the PS5.
So no, VA does NOT put it on par with ps5 and doesn’t even close the gap.
And so even with a highly efficiently compression algorithm like BCPack+SFS that improves and betters the IO
throughput, while it does help somewhat “level the playing field”.(Not on Par)
But is unlikely to full compensate for all of that.
@MasterEMFG Interesting that you think Microsoft was the first ones doing bc or something. When both sony and Nintendo have several consoles that were bc, like the ps2, ps3, pretty much all game boy models, the first ds (probably the 3ds too but I've never owned one of those) and the wii/wii u, even the switch has a bit of it although they got rid of the virtual console.
Seems more likely to me people didnt stop caring about bc until sony decided they were done caring about it.
@Jbuggydroid Did your 360 have some kind of issue or something? The part about the ps4 having party chat seems weird to me since the xbox had it since the original. Gonna guess you mean because of xbox live though.
@jbreez00 I know they weren’t the first, but it became a big part of their narrative about midway through this last gen. Was never this big thing stressed or countless websites touting MSs emphasis on it as what is separating them.
But don’t get me wrong... sure I think it’s a good thing but a game changer meh.
Most of my experience old games are better left for memory and at least most everyone I know doesn’t have time for older stuff anyway. When they do it lasts an hour and back to newer games.
@jbreez00 to clarify I mean this. Microsoft had a great online service with their party chat for one. It was just miles better that what Sony had on the PS3. And at the time it where most of my friends played their games because of the live services were just better. Then Sony improved greatly with the PS4 and then they had the games while Microsoft floundered hard.
I'll buy a Xbox SX for game pass and cross platform and a PS5 for the exclusives. I've always owned a PS for the OG and the X is my very first Xbox. But if I could only have one due to fiances I really think I would go Xbox this gen as it has more power and game-pass is such good value. I think this next gen will be a lot more competitive than current
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