The difference between the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X’s tech specs has been discussed in detail all over the web since last week’s big reveal. We now know that Sony’s system is marginally less powerful in terms of teraflops, but developers have been quick to point out that the next-gen console’s vastly more efficient SSD could fundamentally change game design forever.
Another indie developer, writing on the popular ResetEra forum, has echoed this sentiment. “Personally, I am more excited for PS5 because of the SSD speeds and VR opportunities,” wrote Koralsky, who’s one half of Bulgarian indie outfit Kyodai. “From my point of view, the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400rpm restriction of today. I can go into technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.”
The developer, who worked on last year’s PS4 sci-fi title Elea, added that Microsoft is being a little more forthcoming with regards to details on its box than Sony. “This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule – maybe they just have a different approach,” he explained. “Maybe they have more surprises that they want to keep a secret. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks.”
Koralsky concluded that both upcoming consoles are beasts: “I am expecting a new golden era from a game design perspective – even in AAA form.” Exciting times, folks.
Sure MS has the more powerfull console in terms of visuals but the ps5 has more power where it actually matters for devs. And tbh that is more important.
And the media seems to agree since they have not yet Said a word about the TF advantage of the series x.
@jdv95 It's a tiny difference really. In reality, PS5 games may push a few hundred less pixels. On a 4K screen, that's not going to mean much at all.
Oh my. All the clues makes sense now:
1) Ready At Dawn dev praises PS5. They only worked on VR games in the last three years.
2) Cerny says SSD is important for load-less viewpoint shifts in games.
3) Some devs says there are still exciting PS5 features to be revealed.
4) Matrix 4 comes out next year.
Conclusion: the secret PS5 feature is better VR support. I guess this excites any dev that has VR plans. Just like how any dev that made dancing games were excited about the kinect. Yay.
Games already look amazing – just look at God of War on a PS4 Pro. Next gen they will look significantly better. Tiny differences in power mean little to me. They're both clearly powerful machines. However, the SSD with its ability to change the way games are pieced together is a real game changer. To me, that's really next gen.
It will be interesting to see what devs do with that SSD and what difference it really makes. Fast Travel could be virtually instantaneous on PS5 and take a second or two on Series X but whether or not 3rd Party multi-platform Devs really take advantage, we will have to see. They may consider the Series X as the 'lowest' point and work to that speed.
Of course, there are other things to consider. The PS5 could use higher quality objects/textures at much greater distance from the camera whilst the Series X uses lower quality to keep the data smaller for those more distant objects/textures and use machine learning to upscale them. We just don't know enough yet and it's still down to the devs to push the limits of what they have. Some PC owners don't have SSD's yet either and Devs will likely design games around the 'average' PC user. Those with SSD's and GPU's with Ray Tracing capabilities will get additional benefits and able to run the game at higher resolution, higher frame rates and or higher graphical settings as well as quicker load times - but whether the games are fundamentally different because of the SSD's - at least for the first 3-4yrs of the generation - we will have to see. First Party devs could be the most likely to utilise it to its fullest but again, its pure speculation and unknown at this point in time. We may have to look back retrospectively to see what difference it made compared to series X
Its the same as the difference in the GPU - not just the Tflop number but also the CU and of course the Shader count too. With Ray Tracing occupying CU cores/Shaders, its not just the resolution that could be higher on Series X but also the quality/number of Rays used. PS5 though could use VRS more aggressively, use DLSS (or AMDs version) to upscale a lower 'native' resolution etc to create parity in visual quality. We don't know if MS has a plan to offset that deficit just like PS5 could have a plan for the deficit in GPU cores. Of course some tasks may well be quicker on PS5 due to the frequency advantage but it still has fewer cores and shaders.
I haven't mentioned the CPU because there are still some unknowns with Sony's - can it run in Single Thread mode? is that 3.5ghz in both single and multi-thread? Single thread performance 'suffers' if the CPU is set to SMT as some resources are still 'split' even if the game is only using single core code. By setting the CPU to run in Single Core mode, you get a better Single Core performance. Again though, Single Core performance may not be important as the generation ages. With PC's and Consoles all with SMT enabled CPU's, there is little reason not to design a game with Single Thread in mind - its most likely to be the games that are in development now and expected on current hardware too as they only have single thread CPU's
The reason its not really mentioned is because the advantage is minimal - the series X runs at 3.6Ghz in SMT mode so not a big difference at all.
Anyway, I am looking forward to both systems and the potential they both offer to devs. The massive jump in CPU alone will make a huge difference to game design - let alone the SSD's too.
The GPU still has to render those assets and deal with the size of the texture files.
"I am expecting a new golden era from a game design perspective – even in AAA form."
Well, I hope so. All we've seen "more power" provide previously is prettier graphics. As I've said before, it would be refreshing - and I personally would be happy with it - if PS5 games were visually identical to PS4 games, and the extra power was used to expand on other areas of gameplay, such as more fleshed out and interactive worlds, better AI for partner/enemy characters, etc.
@get2sammyb makes the series x advantage even less relevant .
High quality pixels for everyone 😋
everybody also forgets about the tempest audio engine..a separate unit that gives more freedom to the main cpu..if xbox allocates one cpu core for audio then ps5 might have an advantage in cpu calculations..
Only reason I have not upgraded my old 1080p TV in my family room to a 4K is because I have a PS4 stuck to it. So to me, power does matter.
But also what matters to me are games. If I had an Xbox I would not be playing Nioh2 now or had played Cold Steel or Persona. Demon Slayer announcement would not had included me. Or my next 3 games - Sakura Wars, TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima would not be possible.
with "PlayStation" you do not need to wonder if you getting most games. You just get them - it is almost a given.
I get that "access" 1st each GEN. Publishers being excited for PS5 re-enforces that.
between the elegant design of the CPU GPU RAM and SSD there's the impressive focus on improving audio and there will also be VR, unless Xbox create some amazing exclusives in the first year or two they're done
@badbob001 catch you when they both come out guarantee gamers like you will be eating your words.
@TheNewButler pretty sure Game Developers who have had the systems for a long time now are talking from experience.
@BAMozzy One thing I am expecting to see gradually happen over the course of next gen is PC games having an SSD as a requirement. Early on, I agree that most multiplats will still be designed to be played on HDDs due to most people still using them on PC (or even SATA SSDs, which are slower than the other kinds). But as time goes on, I'm sure that will change.
@TheNewButler Bias? if you say so
Hoho, nice. Like I saids before, given the choice of more about 15% more graphics or about 100% more ssd speed, I choose speed every time
@badbob001 Ready At Dawn have also been working on a AAA game that is a sequel to a pre-existing IP, and rumours have been around for a while that a sequel to The Order is in the works.
I'd say it has nothing to do with VR, as VR is still not a system selling factor and won't build up hype for the PS5.
@TheNewButler game makers are not usually that interested in all that my toys are better than someone else's. many have said the PS5 will change the way games are made might be because it is true.
I wonder if PS5 will match xbsx's multiple game resume feature. I would imagine this feature requires at least some of the ram data to be saved to storage (I think the PS4 keeps it in ram, which is why it goes away if power is lost). If the PS5 supports this, there should be an option to save that data to an external usb drive instead of to the precious ssd. Sure it will take longer to resume, but I rather save the ssd space for in-game usage.
On the PS4, detailed textures can greatly make up for simple geometry. I'm thinking of Uncharted 4. In comparison, Resident Evil 7 had some really low resolution textures that just took me out of the experience.
So even though PS5/XBSX has the same 16GB of ram, maybe PS5's super fast SSD will allow it to basically stream very large textures directly from storage and show insane level of detail. 4K on PS4Pro wasn't always as sharp with lower-quality textures and checkerboard rendering, so perhaps this is how the PS5 will fix it smartly and cost-effectively.
Unreal Engine 4 actually has a texture streaming option and so it may be easy for devs to toggle this feature and compare the performance difference. I would imagine PS5 has features that were actually tested with software to see if they actually make sense to have. Gone are the days of the PS3 and Saturn where the one team creates the hardware and then it's up to the software devs to spend months or years to "just figure it out". Would be amazing if multi-platform devs would add a 'mega-textures' option just for the PS5.
PushSquare needs to stop with these articles when Sony themselves aren't trying...
Let's just face it, the PS5 is weaker than the XSX and 90% of multiplatforms will look or play better on XSX...
So what? Power disadvantage didn't stop me from sticking with my PS2 and PS3 for 14 effing years...
Granted Sony isn't in as strong a position as it was in those PS2 days, with an overwhelming number of games never landing on other consoles...
This will force Sony into doubling down on their FP games, I hope...
Even though they made some stellar games on the PS4, the frequency of release was pretty slow in comparison to other generation...
Let's hope they ramp up FP productions and everything will be fine...
My only concern is Jim effin' Ryan...
@shuvamg009 Sony's PS5 isn't as powerful as the X but to say they will not look or run as well is a bit off in my opinion. Its not like 900p vs 1080p anymore - not at such high resolution and smaller pixel sizes. The smaller pixels mean that the blurry effect - caused by the fact the pixel can only display one colour so tends to be an average of what colours more pixels in that space would - is significantly reduced and with post processing, it can be almost undetectable at normal viewing distances - much larger screens or sitting very close, you may see a 'small' difference.
With DLSS and VRS for example, you may not even notice - unless you have both side by side and analyse specific areas under a microscope. Some may even be hidden in Motion blur anyway. I would advise you to look at DF's look at DLSS with regards to Wolfenstein and the 1080p DLSS looks as good, if not sharper and cleaner than the native 4k - and that's zoomed in at 200%.
Maybe the Xbox will have a numerical advantage - ie running at a consistent native 4k whilst the PS5 runs with Dynamic Resolution Scaling that drops below 4k in intensive areas - but many don't even notice with PS4 on HD TV's when the resolution drops. The Pro often has a much lower resolution because the Pro has a significantly lower (as a percentage) difference - the XB1 did too compared to the PS4 but its much closer between these two machines.
Point is, with modern rendering, higher resolution (and much smaller pixel sizes), the difference between 2160p and 1800p isn't as noticeable as 900p vs 1080p. With VRS too, you would have to look very closely at areas that you don't tend to pay attention to in gaming to see the difference - and some of that detail can't be seen anyway because its in very dark shadows.
The PS5 could use higher quality textures and assets too because it can stream in much more data and much faster too. You may see that objects and textures in the distance look better on Sony's system because they are using higher quality assets where as MS are using lower quality beyond a certain draw distance to reduce the amount of data streamed in...
Its not fair to say that 90% of multi-platform games will look or run better on Xbox. Maybe the Xbox could have a 'numerical' advantage in terms of the resolution the game is running at but that doesn't mean it will necessarily look better in action. Its clear there are difference now between XB1, PS4, PS4 Pro and XB1X but there is also a bigger gap between each. The PS4 was nearly a third more powerful than the XB1S (more on the OG XB1) and the X is nearly 50% more than the Pro - the Series X is 'mathematically' ~16% more powerful but some tasks will still be faster on the PS5 due to its much higher frequency - GPU Cache is tied to frequency for example.
I am not a fanboy, I have owned both Sony and MS's consoles since they both started competing and will own both next gen systems too. It seems that both have strengths and weaknesses and both have a different approach to their design. Some aspects may well be better on Series X but other aspects could be better on PS5. It will depend on the Devs and what their games rely on most - do they require a much faster SSD to stream assets so the Series X has pop-in or lower quality assets/textures? Do they require a faster GPU frequency so the Series X runs a bit slower, Do they require more GPU cores so the Series X has an advantage (more rays in ray traced lighting/shadows for example - although with traditional methods added as well, you may not see/notice too much difference until its pointed out after someone has spent hours analysing stills - like DF do), will devs still design games around Single Thread CPU performance so Series X again may have that advantage or maybe all of these factors combine to mean that Series X has some advantages in some areas but the PS5 has advantages in other areas - ie the X runs at a higher native resolution with a higher quality setting for ray tracing but the PS5 has higher quality textures/assets used and better load times...
Time will tell of course but right now, you cannot categorically say that 1 has a distinct advantage that will be apparent to gamers. Both are a big upgrade on current hardware and both offer a lot of potential for devs to be creative. It really does depend on which aspects are most important to the devs for their design - just like some games were more CPU bound and others more GPU bound, we could see some games have SSD streaming bottlenecks on the Series X so more pop-in of assets/textures - or a longer load time until those assets and textures have been streamed in...
This could suggest if there's a third-party Open-world game design, PS5 might be the best choice to run it especially for RPGs or JRPGs that has a long loading times we've seen in the past or currently.
I think it's quite obvious that Sony is going for full gaming immersion: A wireless PSVR helmet with 3d audio headphones to immerse the player both in eyes and ears. And the haptic triggers will try to bring a lesser level of immersion on the gamer's fingertips.
The question is: Will the gamers embrace this immersion as the next level of gaming? Or will they condemn it as a mere distraction, a niche novelty, a cheap gimmick with little lasting appeal?
To be continued ...
@badbob001 You would be looking at 2 minutes 30 Seconds to resume with a usb HDD instead of 5 seconds with the SSD.
@BAMozzy My reason for saying 90% games will run or look better is because 90% of the devs won't care to optimize for a particular system...
What Sony has shown will most definitely be on XSX (other than that audio engine and IO speed)...
And how many devs can we assume will take advantage of that???
Just look at the Pro and the X...
Pro games could look equally as good as 1X if checkerboarding was done properly...
But no one bothered after some time, and all we got was non checkerboarded lower (than 1X) res games...
See, over time these shenanigans will only apply to first party games...
Eventually raw power wins, and that leaves us with the Tempest engine and the I/O
Very few will even bother with 3D audio other than VR devs...
And that I/O speed wont matter as the jump from standard drives to XSX I/O speeds is enough to be called transformative...
Microsoft had to cut corners somewhere to keep the cost low...
And if they manage to price it the same as the PS5, then hats off to them...
I'm still on the PS wagon for the foreseeable future, but this topic of XSX vs PS5 is like beating the dead...
XSX is clearly the superior one, and contrary to what others think, I believe the gap in performance will only widen over time...
@Ryall As I said, it's a choice. Have more games in suspend state, have less storage for games. Also, it's healthier to not fill up SSD as it can use the free space to distribute writes evenly to reduce wear.
Actually XSEX has it's own dedicated audio chip.
Confirmed on Windows central.
@shuvamg009 you are probably right in the sense that the old way of doing things will slow down progress. other than 1st party sony games, which will have 0 load times, i do believe we will see some loading benefits with 3rd party games on ps5 that surpass the series x, but they don't be as prominent. still, i would rather trade some arbitrary pixels on screen which won't be noticeable in favour of faster load times at the end of the day. even upscaled 4k on the ps4 pro looks indistinguishable to most people... by the time we get to native 4k, it won't matter and it will just be diminishing returns. brute force has its limitations so i like that sony is intead focusing on other areas that are more important.
People are not being interested in reading a technical "long and boring wall of text" is the reason we have people who believe Xbox is marginally more powerful than PS5.
It still baffles me because it's an either/or:
Probably praising the Xbox as well TBF.
0 load times is more important to me that BC or a significant graphical leap. Sitting though ESO and The Witcher 3 load times made loading screens the bane of my console existence. That alone sold me on a new console than anything else.
If I may give my 2 Tflops...err I mean 2 cents...
In previous consoles HDD and was very similar and GPU TFlop and the obviously more advanced chip and memory were signals that the console would perform better overall. Now we have a very different situation with a SSD outperforming the other like a generational difference (I think Sex will need a SSD upgrade in 3 years with the Sex X) and a very different chip custom with I/O strong focus for ps5.
Gpu power (flops) alone isn't enough to draw conclusions (especially if it's less than a couple more) and for that matter is Xbox even saying SeX is more powerful overall? No they arent saying that. They only say the most powerful xbox.
I'm really sick of hearing about specs and graphics. That just doesn't excite me. What real new features do these new machines have? What can they do with the games that they can't do now BESIDES just having better graphics?
@TheNewButler Benchmarks aren't the whole story either, fam. That's just gonna confirm hard numbers.
Triple A games supporting VR mixed in with standard players. Nolonger will VR have to have it's own exclusive library. Reading through the lines from people like Mark Cerny, Kazunori Yamauchi, and the developer above, it's clear. 3D audio, more datathrough the pipe so that data can be loaded faster in all directions. Faster framerates. Innovation in world designs. I got a strong feeling about this. Will definitely be great in racing/vehicle related games as well as fps titles.
Also, PS5 will be easier to develop for & have less bugs/glitches & be easier to patch. People don't understand the developmental benefits of this.
@beavis64 The thing I want to be fixed in console games is the draw distance. Metro Exodus is a perfect example of it.
@Jake3103 I know right if you look at HZD on a pro what will we get when we get a two times more powerfull system.😃
@Callmegil Send him a email maybe he will Send you a wall of text. 😋
@Heavyarms55 it plays games and does it well. There's literally nothing else it needs to do.
@ChipBoundary So do my PS3 and PS4 and Switch. So do my 3DS, Wii U, Gamecube, PS2, SNES, Game Boy Color, Wii, GBA SP, etc etc. If the only thing it has on offer are better graphics, then I'm just not impressed. All the systems I mentioned play games and play games well. They also had new features over their predecessors that I liked.
PS3 played Blueray movies and had an internal hard drive. PS4 supports VR. Switch is a hybrid console. 3DS has 3D gaming and streetpass wireless features. SNES had a controller with more buttons. PS2 played DVDs, Gamecube had a vastly better controller and supported memory cards and the Game boy player. Game Boy Color added color. GBA SP had a rechargable battery and support for wireless multiplayer with the correct adapter. Wii had motion controls, Wii U had the game pad and full backwards compatibility with Wii.
In case it's not clear, I don't care about graphics. I want good games and new features from a new console.
How did you work all that out?
You stated that 3rd party designers (specifically for multi platform games) always develop for the lowest common denominator.
So the reality is, yes they may design for XSX SSD speeds over the the PS5, however this works both ways, meaning they will ALSO develop for the PS5s lower proccessing power.
Basically as what happens now, most 3rd party games look and load basically the same for both consoles.
This isn't like PC where designers can slap on a minimum requirements and it's up to you to meet them.
Barring any PRO / S versions the hardware is staying the same, as such devs have to design for those specs.
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