Enthusiast forums may be focused on the ongoing battle between Sony and Microsoft, but Xbox boss Phil Spencer sees Amazon and Google as its big competitors moving forwards. The talkative executive dropped the soundbite during an interview with Protocol, in which he dismissed PlayStation’s ability to implement a cloud-based infrastructure on par with the Redmond firm’s Azure setup.
“When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward,” he said. “That’s not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we’ve invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years.”
Sony, of course, has signed a “strategic partnership” with Microsoft to leverage its servers and further develop cloud-based gaming solutions. Up until the introduction of Google Stadia last year, PlayStation Now was the only streaming option on the market. Spencer, regardless, is thinking bigger than the traditional console wars.
He continued: “I don’t want to be in a fight over format wars with [Nintendo and Sony] while Amazon and Google are focusing on how to get gaming to seven billion people around the world. Ultimately, that’s the goal.” One step at a time, Phil – one step at a time.
[source protocol.com, via theverge.com]
Comments 138
well i guess it's hard to see them that way when you can't get anywhere near them
That's ok, Sony doesn't see them as competition either 😉
I do understand what he's saying. In a way, Sony has become a customer for them rather than a competitor, especially if they move all PlayStation's cloud stuff to Azure.
I just wonder how long it's going to take before we're all playing in the cloud. It's years away, so while I see that's where we're going eventually, I dunno... It's going to take a lot of time to get there.
Microsoft (in his mind) has moved to a different space.. that's fine.. Sony should stick to what they do best, you can be successful without turning everything into the cloud - Nintendo is happy to do what they do.. you don't have to follow everyone. By all means give people options, but focus on what you are good at Sony!
@get2sammyb yeah but people once said that MP3's will kill off physical music
but Vinyls are still being made (although mainly as collectors pieces), same as CD's
point is there will always be a market for physical media because not only do people like to own what they buy but also for legacy, i can still buy and play any PS1 game that was release today, can you say that for every PS4 game?
and looking to the future the "cloud" is the same, how many games will we pay for and then lose access to because they are removed from the service for some reason (say lack of players) after all unlike even a digital game that is still on your HDD you can play if it's removed from the store but once it's gone from the cloud then it's gone forever
What sort of broadband speeds do you need for cloud gaming though? The UK seems pretty behind on super fast fibre and I can't see it improving that quickly.
@FullbringIchigo No, you're right. There are definitely drawbacks. We're going to have to wait and see how everything plays out.
@FullbringIchigo pretty much this.
MS - lots of games on Gamepass on PC, no XSX exclusives
Sony - new dedicated hardware and next Gen games
Nintendo - the one and only dedicated handheld
They really aren't in competition anymore, they all have their niche.
Phil left out the obvious truth though, I think b/c he didn't want people to see the obvious truth, their real competition is Steam right now. Sure, Steam doesn't have a subscription service or streaming, but it's the main PC gaming service. That's what MS is really going against, he only said Google and Amazon b/c those are the only 2 he can compete against.
Just because those companies telling us what they want to happen does not mean its going to happen. Sounds very similar when EA tells us singleplayer is dead just because they would like every game to be a live service game to make more money.
@get2sammyb I can see cloud gaming getting better over the years to come and PlayStation now, xcloud and stadia becoming more popular but I think there will always be console gaming. Nobody predicted the PS4 would sell over 100 million units before it launched.
@Urrggghhh we're talking DECADES worth of public/nationwide infrastructure before we're properly ready; Particularly under this government.
@get2sammyb true, true we wont know for sure until it happens but like you said i think it's a ways off anyway and as someone else said in a lot of places the internet structure just isn't there yet to make it a totally viable option
Not surprising, considering their current strategy of getting away from a traditional, generational home console focus.
And speaking as an American, cloud-based gaming won't truly become dominant until our information infrastructure is drastically overhauled.
@Urrggghhh GeForce Now (which is actually pretty sweet despite currently limited to 1080p) requires a steady 15Gbps. Not great for "on the go", but perfectly suitable on home broadband with a "non-gaming capable" device.
On topic:
I think all three console makers have done a great job differentiating themselves from each other. The hardware between Xbox Series X and PS5 will certainly be similar, but where they differ is the difference in overall approach to gaming access.
Sony is still going to focus on traditional console gaming almost entirely to it's core. Yes, there is PS Now, but it feels more like a legacy streaming service, rather than a major selling point to access current titles.
Microsoft, while still having traditional console gaming, is pushing hard for Game Pass, xCloud, etc. Basically GaaS.
Nintendo will continue to be Nintendo - it's the only company to have it's own gaming approach category!
@Urrggghhh I’ve got 350MB fibre broadband from virgin and remote play to my iPad in the same room is still laggy 😬
Well he's is right as Sony dominated them this gen, but wish them all the best next gen could have some good games with the developers they have acquired
... I think 'next gen' is going to reveal very different directions for a lot of companies... I think Sony will kind of "go their own way" - similar to how Ninty has done - nobody really sees Nintendo a competitor to either PS/MS - but they're still incredibly successful / popular.. I do think the next battle is for streaming gaming (and hopefully VR) - but I don't streaming will be viable for at least another 5+ years (internet speeds are nowhere near ready yet) no harm in MS getting ready for it now though! Personally, I'd just like them to get rid of load times and ensure all games are at 60FPS (especially console racers) - then I'd be happy!
I see what he's saying too tbh, Sony have been killing it this gen but they are behind the times in some respects. Really doesn't take long for the pack leader to become an underdog.
Some people might not like the way it's going but they don't like Fortnite and Youtube celebrities, either.
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk I'm on the 100MB version which is fine connected by ethernet but the wifi in certain rooms is utter crap. So I guess it's not even just the fibre coming into the house you have to worry about.
@FullbringIchigo you can't really compare vinyl and mp3's to the idea of video games becoming digital only.
Let's assume streaming takes off and has the majority of the market versus physical. If PS6 was 100% cloud based, we could expect the hardware to be immense since they are not hamstrung by cost effectively manufacturing individual units. They just have an ugly machine in an air conditioned warehouse somewhere. They could also upgrade these machines on a regular basis so the base hardware would always be evolving. So, as a "physical fan" not only would you be relying on getting physical releases of games, you'd be relying on Sony manufacturing a console for those few who still want to play at home, and potentially iterations of this home console as the servers hardware is upgraded - not going to happen, at least not for the kind of prices we're used to. It's not like putting a new vinyl on your dusty old record player. For that comparison to be valid the record player would need to have had some kind of massive technological overhauls on a regular basis.
I think if Sony don't embrace streaming, they won't be able to keep up with MS and it's cloud based technology. Okay, we might be battling some latency issues for a long time yet, but if MS can be running their servers with the latest and greatest technology behind it at all times the games will look stunning versus what you can play on your home PS console.
Microsoft and Sony aren't competitors, but x box and playstation are.... and its been exactly that for a long time. Disney and apple aren't direct competitors... but their streaming services are.
@kyleforrester87 i think your missing the point i was trying to make, what i'm saying is i don't think streaming will become the only option, physical may well go away at some point but i don't think it will be for a while yet but even if or when it does i think we will still have digital downloads like we do today
the whole thing i brought up with Record and MP3 was that even today, years after people said that they would die out and vanish they are still here because there is still a market for them and because in some areas of the world streaming still isn't viable, there are some areas in the UK that still struggle with getting Netflix at full HD quality (even in my area fiber only nets you around 30-40mps)
the infrastructure isn't in place yet to make this kind of thing the only option and lets be honest it wont be for decades either
Valid point of view. Game streaming is something that's happening of course and even I as a gamer in my 40s can consider something like GeforceNow or whatever service that can allow me to play a game that's not available on Playstation (for example) with top tier graphics (say raytracing etc) on a non gaming device such as my home studio PC.
That's what Google and MS are trying to do, and it's fantastic, play whatever game you want on any device... of course there are some technical limitations now such as broadband quality etc, but I think it's OK for the first years, slow adoption rate is good at some point, it's like a debugging process ; )
F**k streaming and cloud gaming, and the whole Sony ain't competition is a joke xbox has never been able to compete against Sony and the PS in the first place..
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk
'I’ve got 350MB fibre broadband'
When it comes to gaming, it's not the download speed that is important, it's the 'ping' speed between hops to the server destination which is the important factor. Most online games typically use data packets of around 250Kb up and 500Kb down for communication. Therefore, it's perfectly feasible to play on a minimum 1Mb ADSL copper wire connection, as long as the ping speed is good. Some ISP's use a different network backbone infrastructure when compared to others. What this means, is that some network providers are better than others when it comes to ping speeds.
Here's a hypothetical example to try and explain what I mean. Provider X has a user in London who wants to connect to a client server in Ireland. The line is routed via 10 hops, say London>Manchester>Ireland. Provider Y has a user in London who wants to connect to a client server in Ireland. However, because Provider Y uses a poor network backbone infrastructure, their connection route from London to Ireland is routed through Iceland, then South America before finally arriving at Ireland and takes around 60 hops. This connection has many more 'hops' between the source and the destination, therefore there will be additional latency added to the overall ping times. There are certain UK ISP's where their network backbone infrastructures aren't as efficient as other UK ISP's. These networks are usually responsible for users experiencing lag in games, even though that user may have a bazillion Mb download speed, because their ping speeds are terrible.
Oh? He must have something up his sleeve. Microsoft has acquired many studios lately so I have high hopes for them. This might be the time I have all Three consoles instead of just two
@FullbringIchigo I understand your point, but my point is it's a bit of an apples and oranges situation. They simply won't release physical media if the physical machine to play that media doesn't exist, so in that respect the only way "physical only gamers" could exist in a streaming world would be as retro gamers on old hardware playing old games. But by comparison you can put a new record on any old record player and away you go.
You don't get physical Stadia games because there's no physical Stadia console. It's not like they could release a physical Stadia game and you could put it in your old Mega Drive and it would work.
@Hengist interesting I guess you learn something new every day. So does that mean the marketing strategy of stadia is misleading telling you what resolutions you can have via broadband speeds?
It's a bit like an Arsenal fan saying that Chelsea is no longer competition..
I guess I see his point, which actually makes it easier for me to opt for PS5 as streaming subscriptions can do one.
“When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward,” he said. “That’s not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we’ve invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years.”
and this is why MS will be behind next gen aswell.
the less they focus on traditional gaming by leaning more and more towards streaming the less interest they will gain from new fans which they need.
stadia is failing because of lack of games sure but also it's performance is lacking. it can't even do the 1 thing it is designed for being streaming games properly. also the pre order numbers where already lackluster before the bad reviews came in showing that not enough people care about streaming as has been told by gamers countless of times already.
it's just a bad sign when you consider a failing newcomer as bigger competion than your established rival because stadia are doing what MS wants to do but on a extreme level which again is failing.
stadia can only be a viable system years from now perhaps at the time of ps6 at the earliest considering the state of internet speeds across the world. it seems that only japan is up to speed with that so far.
so instead of testing the waters as sony is doing regarding streaming and keeping it as a option and keeping sony as your main rival MS is doing the exact opposite which will hurt them next gen again.
Okay, if sony isn't their competitor anymore like nintendo switch, where's gears, halo, cuphead, and ori for ps4 😂
@JoeBlogs I prefer digital rather than streaming, with digital at least I still own my games even I'm not connected to internet. I don't trust gaming company with stream only solutions.
@jdv95 I don't think it will hurt them, exactly. Frankly, they seem like they are positioning themselves well for a future which you could make a fair assumption is coming. MS aren't just Xbox, they can absorb many years of "not doing so great" if they have their eye on the bigger prize that exists over the horizon. (:zero dawn.)
Remember you have an entire bunch of kids who have even yet to pick up a game controller who in 10-15 years will be the prime audience for them. They don't remember the good old days, the way they consume media is totally different. That'll be the target, not idiots like us.
Some people spend too much time looking at the sky and not noticing the huge truck coming at them.
@AdamNovice And other people spend too much time looking at the sky and get us to the moon and beyond, come on Adam, it's the visionaries who make a difference!!!
@kyleforrester87 was Sony not the first to look into cloud gaming by buying gaikai for 380 million back in 2012?
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk Things like streaming services are different. The reason why streaming services quote download speeds for gaming is due to the amount of data coming from them, down the pipe, to the user. Whereas a traditional online game communicates small amounts of data to and from the server, like user in-game position, actions taken, etc. A streaming service has to supply all the data for the game (like graphics) to the user, instead of reading it off a hard drive and then into memory, thus download speeds are an important factor for streaming. However, they can still be affected by latency if there are several hops to the server destination, in the same way as regular games can be affected.
@JoeBlogs yes and that was my point, streaming may become the norm (although it's going to take a lot of work as most areas can't handle it yet) but i don't think the other options are going to go away either
@FullbringIchigo @kyleforrester87 There are a few key differences as well monetarily. Games may not make enough money streaming. 120 a year or but two game a year. They’re basically the same thing. So casual games would spend that much already, and hardcore gamer will spend more.
You have games that cost millions, and all the Sony exclusives would make less money on Gamepass. I just don’t brink there’s enough money. Compare to movies as well. Sure, they’re mostly streamed at home, but most need theaters to make enough money. Most of their money goes there. Streams tend to be an afterthought for their performance.
Rotating libraries are also a huge potential issues. Game pass loses games, and they would be infuriating reason to stop playing a 40 hour game.
The only possible flip side for the loss of money form regular purchases is a larger market, but aside from a few mainstream games, most people who want to play them will have a console.
Footnote and COD might benefit from streaming, but more than half the market won’t I would think. And then would it really benefit COD with how many $60 copies it sells? Can we at the very least quadruple the player base to make even with the physical?
Translation - "we can't compete".
"We see Google and Amazon as our competitors".
Um, Phil, newsflash have you seen how people are not happy with Google and their Stadia and the idea of "cloud gaming" in general? Seriously how out of touch do you need to be before you understand what core gamers really want! This is why Sony will continue to dominate, it's why even the Switch has beaten the Xbox One.
I think it's pretty clear cut that I'll be avoiding Xbox once again next gen.
@Jaz007 true, the thing is though we might think of streaming as being subscription only, but in principal they could always charge a single full price for access to new releases. I’m not saying that would be good value for a gamer but ultimately they don’t have to run it as a £20 per month gets you everything deal. On Amazon Prime there is a period when a new movie release where you can only buy it, then after a few weeks they offer it up for rent too.
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk sure, that’s a good sign though so fair play to them. They still don’t have the clout MS do in this area though.
@kyleforrester87 Providing they don't get hit by that truck of course. Which is what Phil is threatening to do because he's so married to service/cloud future.
@Jester1701one
I really do agree with you about that
@FullbringIchigo @JoeBlogs but then you can’t ride a horse on a motorway. So if you want to go fast, you have to buy a car. The car in this analogy is Stadia 😂
Phil has his head in the cloud if he thinks that.
@kyleforrester87 you mean it runs slow and constantly breaks down?
Hes being Arrogant plain and simple.
Aiming for 7billion gamers while little Sony and Nin cant...🙄
That reminds me of when they were aiming for 1billion xbox ones sales in 2013.
Sounds like Microsoft is planning on leaving the gaming industry to focus on the cloud and its Office suite.
Its weird as I started gaming with Atari and then the C64 in the 80s. I've no interest where the industry is projected to be headed at this point, if thats towards Streaming and Cloud gaming.
@kyleforrester87 Very true but I just don’t see cloud gaming being the dominant force in my lifetime.
@FullbringIchigo eyyyy i knew you'd say that. Okay, Stadia 4. Whatever version we need to get to for it to be a stable experience lol.
@AdamNovice I wouldn't assume to know better than Phil Spencer myself.
man i can't wait to play the master chief collection on ps5
@jdv95
They are back to saying they want to reach billions of customers again. 2013 water cooler 🤷♂️
“That’s not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position'
Haha
As usual, "Gamer" Phil changes his tune depending on the audience he's talking to...if this was E3 you can bet he'll still be insisting to the "Wooooh!",devotees that he loves consoles & XB with the most power ever is here to stay,here's our new studios exclusives! Here, once again he's insisting its all about cloud gaming! What you can be sure of is live service games with mtx & drip feed content.
@kyleforrester87 Hmm, good point. Another question to consider, by the time streaming gets good enough, will we be seeing console generations less often due to having so much power? And also, will consoles even be as expensive to make or sell? If that were to change as streaming gets better, then that could be a big factor too. Time will tell.
Yea i mean if you cant compete...here is the thing. I loved my OG Xbox and 360 a lot. I Was severely disappointed by a lack of quality exclusives this gen. Lets be honest with ourselves. As far as hardware sales in the wild MS has taken 2nd or last every attempt. If MS doesnt step up their in housr work then their next system is basically a 3rd party (lacking exclusive content mind you) gamepass machine. If that's where they wanna go great. But the quality and consistency of their philosophies regarding development have an obvious impact on their final products
@kyleforrester87 I didn't say you do but the guy is typically blowing smoke like he always does.
@Jaz007 I mentioned above, but if servers are all centralised they can be updated as soon as new hardware releases. So the idea of generations coming round every half decade goes away, everything would potentially be cutting edge at all times. This could go some way toward offsetting the problems with latency - amazing looking games, some artifacting. It also makes it very hard for home consoles to keep up - Sony would have to release more hardware, and charge more for it, to sell to less people, since many people would be happy with the streaming option. The idea of selling consoles at a loss goes out the window. Once the customer base becomes so fragmented, they drop the home consoles all together.
That’s just a potential way I could see it going.
@kyleforrester87 i still think Stadia will fail, not because of what it is but because of Google, they can't even run YouTube properly and haven't been able to for years and that was a service that was already in place and working when they brought it
Now i actually think MS could possibly pull it off if they do it right but the internet infrastructure still needs to be redone before hand
@FullbringIchigo I absolutely agree, Stadia is likely to fail, but Google can absorb a few hits too. It’s early days.
@kyleforrester87 i suppose the question about Stadia now is if Google will stick with it or do what they did to a lot of things in the past and just drop it completely
@FullbringIchigo yeah I agree. It might come across like I’m really passionate about streaming games, honestly I’m not, the idea is pretty scary but I do try and embrace change when it comes along. It’s a nicer way to live IMO.
after ps4 trounced x1 by a sales ratio of 2.5:1, microsoft thought it was best to take its battle elsewhere
He'll Backtrack On This Statement Later Like He Always Does
that is called bringing up a company that is panning us to death every time is not a good idea pretend we do not see them as competitors Xbox nuts will belive it like crappy gamer at least 🤣 🤣 there have been rumblings Phil might be out of a job soon investors are not happy.
Streaming is going to fall flat on its face no one wants just that.
@kyleforrester87 Maybe they'll release them for PC at that point? Like collector's editions. I dunno. Hard to say, but as long as there's a market for it, they will find a way.
@Jaz007 Yeah good point. It's also the reason why a good bunch of Netflix shows are crap. You can only do so much with a $10 monthly sub. Putting a bunch of games like God of War and TLOU2 on a service means that either the quality must go down, or they need to release less games. Or maybe it'll become more expensive? But I'm not sure that would be fine with most people.
@Octane I have no doubt there will be a market for a good while yet, but it'll become a novelty.
Thats cuz microsoft gaming console is about power and sony gaming console is about games. Learn something from xbox360 and ps4 .
Son : Mom i want new console from microsoft .
Mon :Which one ?
Son : xbox Sex.
Mom : what ?
Son : they named it xbox series X . I dont know how to make it short .
You can't see someone as competition if you can't compete with them. 😏
@David187
This is what Spencer was saying last year:
'we think about reaching the over 2 billion people on the planet who play games,'
Now hes on about 7 billion..
🤯
Haha
That's funny because i doubt Sony sees xbox as much competition. The folks to watch is Nintendo. It has been and judging by their attach rate always will be.
"Here's the thing guys, Sony and Nintendo put us to eat dust this generation and the next one might be even worse. So I decided to stop being embarrassed and changed my competitors: one that is flopping miserably - Google - and another one that barely entered the games market - Amazon. Certainly this way I will have some advantage."
@3Above
Your comment just made my day
@Shepherd_Tallon stream the games you own with max settings and rtx,going to try metro exodus later,ray tracing is used really well in that game
Can see where he's going with this actually and anyone that's tried project X cloud will agree how brilliant it is
People have become number numb! When you are earning hundreds of millions of dollars who cares what place your in. The only real goal is to move forward from where you are. Not about where someone else is. Microsoft want to move forward not backwards the same a Sony.
Every big company wants streaming. It is a easy way too totally control your customers. You control what/how/when they play. Look at some digital only games pulled of the stores never too be played. You control their options kill of the secondhand market so all the money stays in the pockets of the multinationals. Its a easy way too kill of competition and how brilliant is it that you can cut out the middleman. You can totally control the market. I will go physical as long as their is that option.
Oh I get it now.
Spencer is a time traveler from the lovely all cloudy future.. That's why hes using the present tense.
What if he a terminator sent for John Kodera Connor?
Update from 2028.
Amazon to John....'will you join us?'.....
Sounds to me like xbox is tired of losing in the units sold per console war... I mean you can't deem someone unworthy of a challenge if you can barely be considered a challenge..
@OneManDroid I mean the only real reason why NINTENDO is even included is because they're the only OG platform still alive even if just barely
@Yokaixyokai barely? their current console is selling really well and has already outsold the console that is often viewed as their hayday (the snes). Just because it hasn't been as successful as the playstation doesn't mean that they and xbox are barely in the race. They're doing fine too.
Cloud gaming has alteady failed and 7 billion people will never use cloud gaming. This further proves that Xbox as a console is dead, but some people keep denying that reality.
@get2sammyb We will never be playing on the cloud and that is not where we are headed. You have been saying that for a year and nothing has proven you right.
Stadia has failed, PSNow is just there and Xcloud still has issues which is why it has not launched. You think just cause the cloud exists that it must be where gaming is headed? Remember Kinect?
Remember motion controls? Weren't they "the future too"? How about digital only yet more people still by physical games. You never provided any evidence to support your claim.
@FullbringIchigo Exactly. The cloud is already here and been here since PSNow, but it has not been successful. Stadia is a big fat flop and Xcloud will flop too.
@Jester1701one Bingo.
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk "Nobody predicted the PS4 would sell over 100 million units before it launched."
Ahem! I said it would before it launched. It was obvious. Why would it not sell over 100 million? PS5 will too.
I hope this never works out for any company.
I don't need it or want it.
@OneManDroid It has nothing to do with internet speeds. Games are not meant to be streamed. Input lag, framerate, screen tearing and resolution drops will always be an issue and games will only get bigger.
Netflix still drops in resolution for me and that is just a video. Streaming Netflix in 1080p drops let along 4K and your bandwidth will hit its cap much quicker causing slowdown to make it worse.
I do not get why people don't understand that? Gaming is not going to ever work good on the cloud. Cloud gaming is a gimmick and just another way to get you to subscribe to something.
There is zero benefit to cloud gaming for us as customers. Companies can not make profit off it either. Stadia has not had any new games thus far and their sales are abysmal. Yet people claimed they had Sony shook LOL.
@kyleforrester87 Why would there be no physical machine? How exactly would you play the games with no physical device? Stadia does have a physical device which is needed to access their service on your TV and connects the controller. You fail to understand that. Also third party games would be an issue, which is why Stadia lacks content.
@JoeBlogs Every game would not be available through streaming. People keep missing that point. Streaming music or tv is not the same as a game. Games require much more and lag will always be an issue. Sony makes hardware and will never give that up, same with Nintendo. M$ failed with Xbox and Google never had hardware.
When a company skip E3 and make a great impact on the show and break the sales records every year to a point it's try to break a previous generation console's record of it's own then it's obviously not your competitor mr. phill spencer it's far more superior than that i cannot argue with u.
@GodGamer the physical device isn’t doing heavy lifting. Respectfully, you’re just seeing what you want to see - and that’s fine. Game on buddy.
Well that one way to being at the top. just compete against the worst of the worst. Stadia? Really?
I'm not surprised, no one sees Xbox as competition tbh. They're consistently in last place every generation.
@FullbringIchigo @kyleforrester87 @JoeBlogs I would consider streaming to be like the railway. If you start at one end of a high speed rail track and want to get to the other end and the is a seat on the train. You get a great experience that the slower car can’t match. However if you start in the wrong place or want to do something unusual you’re still going to want your own local hardware. Just as the railway hasn’t superseded the private car. I don’t think streaming is going to make dedicated local hardware obsolete. That doesn’t mean it won’t succeed or be useful in some circumstances.
"to get gaming to seven billion people around the world"
LOL. Not everyone has and will have (especially dedicated) gaming as a hobby, this is plain stupid.
@kyleforrester87
Are you from the future too?
🤔
Strange to mention Google and Amazon?
Stadia seems to be a dead duck
Have Amazon said they're entering some kind of gaming service? And on what device? Must've missed that one.
Long term, the investment required in cloud gaming (which many people don't understand is just LOTS of physical servers somewhere) is out of Nintendo and Sony's league. The move to the cloud is happening right now across industries. Gaming will be no different - people think of cloud as just streaming games but that is the tip of the iceberg. Publishers and platform holders will lean more and more heavily on the cloud for digitals stores, services and possibly computational power. In turn, they will turn to the big hitters like Amazon and google.
The Xbox brand will sit nicely with the other gaming FLOPS I really really really don't get why Microsoft is bothering bringing out another console for?!?! It's pointless for them now. Oh well it's their money they will be wasting.
@JJ2 no why do you say that?
@Rudy_Manchego that’s what I see happening too.
@kyleforrester87
Phew...
It's alright. Just wondering
You can have as many streaming services as you want but the amount of gamers isn't going to increase that much because of it, my wife isn't suddenly going to start playing Gears of War because she can stream it on the TV. Gamepass has a lot of subscribers and is available on other devices yet that number is still lower than the number of Xbox's sold. Needing a console or PC has never been a barrier preventing people from gaming and this 7 billion thing is absolute nonsense.
I do get his point that basically Microsoft don't really see themselves as the gaming developers in the same way Sony and more so Nintendo will do, but rather they will be the platform to distribute other companies games and that makes sense.
@carlos82 But if we’re talking 10-20 years there will be so many new gamers who never knew it any different, so it’ll be normal to them, no?
@JJ2 how do you see games being played by 2050-2060?
lolz at some of these comments, the click bait title dosn't help. Maybe you should read Phils article to understand why he is refering to Google and Amazon. He is not having a dig at Sony at all. If you like it or not the future is in cloud gaming. I have X-Cloud and its awesome for when I am at work, it gives me an OPTION. Maybe because I am a grown man with a Job and money, I can be happy with the fact that I can game on what ever bit of hardware that I want, The One box only crew give this hobby a bad name.
i hope sony doesn't take its cloud gaming to azure.. azure blows. of course MS doesn't want sony to align with google or amazon webservices. since the middle of this console generation, phil spencer's been like snakeoil salesman.. this "direction" for xbox has come from much higher up within microsoft.. if it was two generations ago, xbox would have been canned, satya nadella has no affinity for gaming - it's just another thing he can sell as a service. it's why microsoft has become much less proprietary in the last decade.. the biggest server base on azure is linux, not windows server, there has concentrated effort on windows 10 to produce a reliable WSL (windows subsystem for linux).. there are even suggestions windows 11 could abandon the windows NT kernel (which has been sh*t for 30 years) and replace it with the linux kernel. it's all part of a plan where windows desktop will also be a service, imo and even if a customer chose to run it on AWS or google, or wherever, and not azure, MS is still getting the subscription. windows desktop is nowhere near the big money maker it used to be, and a one-off fee (which is usually mostly subsidised) for an O/S that people might stick with for years compared to ongoing subs of a few dollars a month? windows 10 has been garbage from the start, and the amount of dumbf***ery regarding windows 10 updates that's been coming out of redmond, its obvious it's becoming a bit of a backburner product. Everything as a service (Desktop, Platform, Infrastructure... Games) is the position satya nadella sees for microsoft. phil just comes across as a shill.
@kyleforrester87 - "how do you see games being played by 2050-2060". - holodeck. make it so.
@kyleforrester87 I'm not saying streaming won't be the future, it certainly will be if not just for the reason you pointed out. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that there will be this huge increase in overall gamers that Phil suggests just because they no longer have to buy a piece of hardware to play it on. I don't imagine that there is a huge amount of people who want to play video games but don't because they'll have to buy a console/pc first. Google Stadia has almost proved that already with its flagship title Destiny 2 accounting for around 1% of the player base, whilst an Xbox One S is relatively cheap and with Gamepass would cost very little to get going, yet it still flounders behind PS4 and even more so the Switch.
I don't doubt that streaming will be the future and Xbox is clearly being positioned as the go to platform for other companies to put their games on. That could still be quite a while away though
@leucocyte I think that's about 300 years too soon 😉
@leucocyte i would be down for that of course they will need games for an old man to play
@sanderson72 i think it's Microsoft as a whole and not just XBOX in this case, MS are more than just a game company after all
@JoeBlogs We have a winner !!
@JoeBlogs You dont need to call your self a loser man. Have some self respect.
@carlos82 - can't wait that long. in the 2050s i'll be in my 70s, and might still have the physical capability to play games. by 2320, i'll be a head in a jar.
@kyleforrester87
Why ask me?
You need to ask Spencer. He is the time traveller haha
@JJ2 he’s “from the future” because he’s looking beyond the end of his nose? Huh, interesting...
@kyleforrester87
Hes from a time when Amazon and Google are the main gaming competition haha
(That's what he said)
@JJ2 ah you’re team PlayStation4life are you? Keep it up bro!
@kyleforrester87
What? What does this ps4life thing have to do with it?
🙃
Edit
I am no team. Are you?
Weird comeback
@JJ2 So dont you think it's possible for companies like Google and Amazon to be competitive in the video game entertainment space?
Bit of an ego this guy, I'm sure they've seen the same research as has Sony that in terms of growth of the number of people gaming it is slowing and at its current rate will probably come to a stand still in the next decade. The truth is not everyone is into gaming so spending in his words 10's of billions could look like a fools folly in the near future.
@kyleforrester87
It could happen in the future but saying they are xbox main competition now is rubbish. Spencer says one thing and the opposite later. I had good laugh and thought its the best way to see it.
When he says ps is the main competition at E3 are you going to agree with him again?
Haha
@JJ2 Hmm, maybe you should read the full interview and what he’s saying might make more sense to you. In a nutshell if MS are moving heavily in to the streaming space, and Sony are less interested, they are no longer competing over the same markets. In that respect MS are more interested in going after the markets that Google, Amazon and Apple have an eye on. Therefore MS are in less direct competition with Sony than they were, especially given Sony are a customer of MS. It could well be that Sony and MS become an even bigger partnership in the future against Google etc.
That’s not to say one company is “better” than the other.
@kyleforrester87
'they are no longer competing over the same markets. '
Oh come on now... haha haha
And 'Sony are a customer of MS. '?
Theres no partnership yet
Am I the only one that’s getting weary of talk of game streaming? I’m sure it will be a significant factor in gaming’s future. But I feel pretty confident that other methods of content delivery, like digital downloads, aren’t going to vanish. Right now, my main focus is on the current and immediately upcoming generation of video games. I think Stadia’s performance has amply demonstrated that game streaming still needs more time in the oven.
@JJ2 But they are though, they are paying them millions for cloud based hosting services?
@JJ2 just complete waffle mate he is becoming Don Mattrick🤣 🤣
@kyleforrester87 you will find MS is more a customer of Sonys how do you think all the films & Music go to MS services?
very convenient to say Amazon & Google are their competitors in gaming! come on let us be real Playstation & Nintendo are the only real players in the gaming space Sony was doing Game streaming before them all.
I'm guessing Sony will have a do it all service, not a one-trick pony. IMO Sony will come out on top again.
@Rudy_Manchego it was an announcement that the two developers had signed what's known as a memorandum of understanding - essentially a letter saying both parties are interested in working together. "It’s the beginning of the kind of conversation. so not sure where you heard they pay them millions of dollars that is a lie.
if anything MS pays Sony & has been for a very long time Music & Film & TV.
@David187 Er no mate. A memorandum of understanding that they will be partnering and Sony is investing with Microsoft in their azure platform for cloud gaming. That involves money. Sony is also helping develop semi conductors for Microsoft. That investment is happening. The money MS pay for Sony licenses films is minuscule. Microsoft as a company is bigger than Sony btw.
@Rudy_Manchego
As far as I know, (which is not much , PSN is still on amazon and has been for years right? Ms as a cloud company has been competing with them and others for years. Xbox is competing with PS.
Idk didnt get any update on what the Ms/Sony 'understanding' ended up being.
Still using a cloud service doesn't change the fact PlayStation is a leading gaming platform at this time we r speaking and will be for the next few years. Projections in the far future and saying Sony isn't competition now in gaming is just plain stupid.
Spencer is like a politician. He says one thing and then the opposite some time later I bet you at E3 hes going to say PlayStation is tough competition and he 'wishes they were there' haha
@JJ2 I see what you are saying (and don't 100% disagree) but I also see what Phil Spencer is saying. I think his point is that he sees gaming is on the verge of being very different and changing dramatically and I think a lot of people interested in the industry are still fixated on the past model of success. Traditionally, hardware is king and the gateway to people buying games so you try to tie people to hardware.
From that perspective, MS has 'lost' the console war this generation. They have sold less consoles, made less games, sold less games. Sony has sold more consoles, made better games, and won the gen. Nintendo has also done pretty well post Wii U with the Switch. If a game sells well, lots of money is generated for the publisher and platform holder.
However, this type of revenue flow is very very risky. A game bombs, you make less money. If you delay a game, your profit projections drop. The real money made this generation is in digital transactions and subscription services.
Microsofts strategy, across industries, has been very specific. Device agnostic, service and subscription heavy. Office 365, Azure services, Dynamics, Dev Ops, PowerBI are all subscription services that you can run on any machine. They have invested heavily into being cloud providers in the same way that Google and Amazon have. It is clear, to me, that Microsoft want the XBOX brand to not be about a machine under your telly but a service you pay for monthly and leverage their cloud infrastucture to play.
In that sense, Microsoft will be going up against the other big cloud players, Amazon and Google. Sony does not have that sort of infrastructure in place and it would be very costly for them to do so. Now I'd agree with anyone that says cloud services, cloud gaming etc. isn't there yet - the Stadia has poor offerings and won't work globally because of the signal requirements. A bad launch too. I think the PS5 'generation' will still heavily feature physical sales, exclusives and all that.
BUT, and this is my point, we can see the massive changes this generation already. Digital subscription services have driven the profits this gen. Xbox, Google, Apple, EA, Sony have all got a subscription gaming service. MS, EA and Sony are looking to make those services multiplatform (if they haven't already). They are looking at the Netflix model and everyone wants a piece of that pie and the battleground for that future, is going to be the cloud. All these digital services and online offerings will want to utilise cloud services and again, MS, Google and Amazon are those big players that offer that. The memorandom of understanding between MS and Sony is a clear move that Sony want to utilise MS's space and that is a win win for them both.
Now, I don't know if this future will come to pass but you can see why platform holders want it to. Xbox are investing heavily into the future and I think the war over who makes the best exclusives and flogs the most machines will be less and less relevant compared to who can drive and win the most subcribers and service users.
@Rudy_Manchego
It's a fair and interesting debate. All what your saying is relevant.
But.. the fact is (and the whole point) PlayStation is very much in competition with Xbox in this timeline and present moment. Spencer is simply avoiding to acknowledge the facts or trying to show xbox in a relevant angle for Microsoft.
And again, I'm certain Spencer will say very soon that PlayStation IS the competition and contradict himself once again.
@Rudy_Manchego erm no to you mate you just said Sony hand over millions to MS when did that happen? the money is minuscule give it a rest. why are you willy waving about who has the most money are you 10? nobody is saying MS is not a big company where did you get that part from?
you sound like your on that MS kool-aid. Amazon has the better cloud tech anyway so I hope they stay with them. you sound naive Sony makes all the things you need on those services CONTENT it is after all why people use them.
@Urrggghhh thats just England up in Scotland its super fast
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