Senran Kagura Burst Re:Newal was recently delayed on the PlayStation 4 as the platform holder asked publisher XSEED to remove a controversial mode which effectively allows you to fondle its cast of questionably aged virtual characters against their will. Some felt that, given cultural context in 2018, the manufacturer had made the right decision, while others argued that they’d rather make up their own mind about the games they play.
There’s some speculation that Sony’s clamping down on heavily sexualised content, especially after it refused release of bizzarro dating game Super Seducer, but many assumed that this would be limited to Western territories. However, comparison screenshots of a new Japanese visual novel which released this week in the East reveal it may be a company-wide policy. The pictures, compared to the Nintendo Switch and PC, show use of heavy lens glare to obscure sexual imagery on the PS4 only. The censorship was not present in the PS Vita version, which launched a year ago.
There’s also chatter that the PlayStation maker has requested “jiggle physics” be removed from the PS4 version of Warriors Orochi 4, as they’re present in the Nintendo Switch release but conspicuously absent from the Sony SKU. Obviously this could just be a bug or glitch, but given the wider context of what’s been happening these past few weeks, it seems like the platform holder really could be shutting down this kind of content.
[source twitter.com, via oneangrygamer.net, oneangrygamer.net]
i don't get it, if they don't censor these things they get called out on it, if they censor them, they get called out on it
how can they win?
If this is true then how the hell did SoulCalibur VI remain unchanged?
@FullbringIchigo They can't really. I really feel for the people having to make these calls.
My personal view is that it should be down to the players to decide what they want to play, but I'm not sure where you draw the line. (Because there does have to be a line at some point.)
@ShogunRok also makes a good point that there's no real consistency. We'll need a lot, lot more examples before we can categorically say there's a "ban" on this sort of stuff.
Super Seducer was just a cheesy game which made fun of itself. Its not just kids who play the consoles yet Sony feels some kind of moral obligation to stop certain games or ask for changes. There are plenty of games which have questionable content yet they are released with question.
"...it seems like the platform holder really is shutting down this kind of content."
If all this was triggered by a game which sexualised potentially-underage characters, then I'm not even gonna apologise for being blunt about it. Censor, ban and delete.
Sony needs to the wake the hell up. They were all for it years ago. Nintendo was against it, and now they allow it. Sony is now against it. But Sony is totally up for people blowing each other to bits, showing blood, guts and people dying. But sexual content.. THATS where they draw the line.. Really? Hard to like Sony at this point for me.(Yes, I play these niche games)
@FullbringIchigo Don't censor it. There'll always be people who cry about it. But in the end gaming is a wide and diverse lake to plunge into. If you don't like this game, you can play another.
A lot of people who play games are adults. I'd be glad if Sony didn't treat us like children.
@hotukdeals I must admit, I also saw Super Seducer as so ridiculous that it was clearly not meant to be taken seriously. But at the same time I can see how in 2018 some of its content wasn't really appropriate.
I think this is the problem: people look at this stuff in black and white, but really there are shades of grey. I find it very difficult to take a stance either way on this stuff, especially when every game needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis.
@get2sammyb This is kind of why we had ratings boards as inconsistent as they are. Now it's kind of overbearing to have TWO nannies hovering over games.
PC games aren't safe either, especially if devs port the PS4 versions to PC.
@get2sammyb We're also dealing with cultural differences in a lot of these cases. Anime is a known quantity in Japan but, here in the west, most ignorant parents would just see it as "another cartoon" and think it kid-friendly by default, regardless of whether it's got a massive PEGI 18 sticker on it or not.
You have to fail safe, not fail deadly, and protect those who might accidentally stumble into something, rather than those who are indeed fully aware of an issue and able to make an informed decision.
But no amount of cultural tolerance and understanding can excuse sexualising a minor. That's a red line, and I'm dismayed that some people would argue otherwise.
@Rawzuka I feel the same. I even play mainly Japanese niche titles like Nights of Azure, Gal Gun, Senran Kagura, etc.. If Sony goes on like that, I'll take a closer look at my Switch. ^^
Let the ratings boards decide and limit the games audience accordingly.
I mean sure it doesnt always work but legally youve met your requirement. Plus the internet is full of much worse and far easier to get content.
That’s it. I’m chrome plating my pitchfork.
Are ratings enforced in Europe? Just curious. Pretty sure they aren’t in the US...at least for games. Movies, yes. Music, when I was a teen, yes (couldn’t buy 2 Live Crew). Now, not so much. Games though? My son has never had an issue buying a M rated game.
@lacerz Working in retail I can tell you there is a thing such as test purchases where officers send minors in to buy items with age restrictions, including video games.
If a store fails to ID verify or allows the sale to go through, the officers can enter the store and deliver an on the spot fine, and charge the store store manager and company for breach of the law.
Further if you believe, or have any reason to believe, an item is being bought on behalf of an underage individual, present or otherwise at the point of sale, you have a legal responsibility to refuse the sale.
So yeah? Age restrictions on just about anything are enforced. Its illegal to sell to anyone below and you have to be ID'd if you appear under the age of 25. I've been asked for ID numerous times buying games. Not hard.
@Etherwinter thing is if parents did their jobs and used the built in parental controls and buy games for for that kids that are suitable for them then Sony (and other publishers) wouldn't need to censor the games at all
we all know games have an age rating for a reason but a lot of parents just don't care now a days and buy their obviously underage kids the latest games like RDR2 for example because they just would rather not deal with their kid being mardy or being the only person at their school not playing it
Not going to repeat what i said in the senran kagura article, or get into this again, but yes it appears to be a policy change according to xseed:
In a tweet, Xseed localisation producer Tom Lipschultz responded to a fan who asked why Intimacy Mode was a problem now after it had made it into past Senran Kagura games released on PS4 in the west by saying "this is a brand new policy" at Sony.
This is beyond dumb.
@RogerRoger I'm sorry, but why exactly do we have to "protect those who might accidentally stumble into something"? How about parents instead actually do their jobs and be active in knowing what exactly their kids are consuming instead of making the rest of us suffer, yeah?
There's also a number of people still who think video games in general are all for children and will but whatever their kids ask for. So according to your logic, we should ban or censor all the violent M-rated video games out there, to "protect" those parents from making a bad decision, right?
Yeah, this is pretty lame. This gonna happen with DOA6? Which is already toned down on the sex appeal.
@MysticMask Well, for starters, it's just decent and human to protect others, but I'd agree that in this specific case, part of that protection should be about increasing awareness and educating those who don't know any better. And I agree that parents must be responsible for what their children are exposed to, even in a world where it's impossible to control access to everything all the time; you signed up to that when you had the kid, so don't complain about ignoring the PEGI 18 label on the box.
But I'm afraid you've taken my "logic" (that's a smart word to describe my knee-jerk reaction to a difficult, layered topic, so thanks) and run to an extreme with it. In both my comments, I specifically called out the example of Japanese games which sexualise characters who could potentially be underage. Perhaps I could've made it more clear, but we're not discussing violence or adult, consensual sex here; everything I'm saying is in response to some people criticising Sony for censoring what could be interpreted as child pornography.
I'm sorry if you see a lack of mature content in games as some kind of suffering. Despite really enjoying some dark, heavy and mature games myself, I'd happily give them all up if it meant sparing a single individual any emotional distress. But maybe that's just me.
@FullbringIchigo I dislike the "think of the children" argument because it's not the developers' job to be parents to children. They shouldn't be censoring games because parents are ignorant. If parents don't want to get involved in their kids hobbies then it's THEIR fault, not the developers. On top of this, education about ratings should be important. Most parents understand movie ratings, so why not try to inform them about video game ratings?
@Etherwinter that was my point, the parents should be doing it but they aint but it's the publishers and console manufacturers that get the blame for it
but on this game i can completely understand the reason why Sony would have it censored given the subject matter
Sony is more likely to censor game compared to nintendo? Is this the worst timelines?
I definitely not comfortable with this.
Everyone is discussing if Sony is morally right to stop poor (hypothetical) Jimmy Bob from accidentally seeing some underboob.
Sony doesn't care about that at all.
Every game released for PlayStation comes with a big ol Sony logo on the box, their reputation is linked to every release.
This is a niche game unlikely to ever earn Sony a noticeable amount of money, censored or not.
If there is a media scandle about this game, or any similar, it could cost Sony a great deal, especially approaching the next generation of consoles.
It's nothing to do with ethics, it's just sensible business decisions.
@ShogunRok that was my first thought
"Jiggle physics" though lol
Westerners oh Westerners, shooting man in their face is entertainment but a little pervy guilty pleasure is disgusting ...
Can't believe a time that Sony do more censoring than Nintendo would come...
Glad that I'm getting a Switch...
Good job Sony isn’t in charge of museums. They’d be taking paintings down left, right and centre. Isn’t it the ESRB or PEGI that should be judging what can and cannot be shown?
Drawings of wobbly bits in video games is surely less corruptive than the masses of sexualised content we get on a lot of reality TV and music videos that are more readily available and can be watched on your PlayStation quite easily.
Sorry state of affairs. This new puritanism due to the metoo movement and pc activists sucks.
Now in Last of Us you can't shoot your enemies, you now have to jump off their heads.
@Rawzuka the girls in those anime games could potentially be minors... they certainly don't look older than 14 in some cases. we are talking about borderline pedophilia here... if it were up to me, none of that trash would be released on ps4, censored or not. leave that for the wild west (aka pc) instead as it is known to be indifferent to such content. if this bothers you so much, play the games on pc or beg the publishers to port said games to pc. there needs to be some sort of curation and quality control on playstation. i don't want to insult you for liking these types of games, but in all honesty, maybe you need to grow up and move on as well
Damn now Dead or Alive 6 won't sell good on PS4 without the "Jiggle physics" 😂
Honestly I never thought I would see Sony turn into a Nintendo, sad times indeed
I'm not keen on Sony's stance here. As long as the game is legal and passes the ratings board and gets an appropriate age rating, then I don't think Sony should be interfering and censoring games.
I'm against censoring most of the time. Like when they try to censor jiggle physics especially in games like soulcal and doa where its been present since early entries but the senran kagura thing is dumb. Just stick to the T&A. No need to go into molesty territory
@Xaessya Oh, I'm sure sony didn't have problem with violence, nearly all sony AAA 1st party games like gow, tlou 2, and ghost of tsushima had graphics violence.
Sony should stop with this, but if they don't I can't see it affecting them in the short term.
Games like this will just move to PC, and will, probably, thrive there, but this could be a slippery slope in terms of what they may allow on their platform going forward. I don't like it, but it doesn't really affect me. But it probably will at some point.
Parents should be responsible for the content their children consume. If they don't they're irresponsible parents, in terms of what content they let their children consume, and it is utterly unfair and laughable to expect other people to shoulder their responsibility. Compassionate or not. It's irrational and far too agreeable.
Inconsiderate parents need to consider what their children are consuming, and how that consumption affects their children. That isn't too much to ask.
Get the hell off of your bloody backside and look after your kids! Stop letting them do things that make you dislike them, and be a part of their lives.
If Sony's policy ends here, then that's not too bad, in my estimation at least
That is a fair compromise, in terms of protection and corporate nannying; I can, personally live with that. I am preparing for it to go further, however, and any more than this is unacceptable. I just won't support anything too far down the line, in terms of censorship, and support other things instead.
I can understand. I mean, where does a line get drawn? I mean, I don’t get Warriors, but I understand Suran Kengera. And I don’t think it’s about protecting the children.
And one thing certain, there’s alsays been a line with all 3 platform holders, AO games. That’s always crossed it. The question is whether anything else should be there. It’s a slippery slope for sure.
@Constable_What no, it probably won't affect you at some point unless you suddenly get into anime pedo games. there is no need to act like there is problem when there isn't one. just more people over reacting, what else is new.
by the way, it is sony's platform and they can control it however they want. if it doesn't please you, feel free to go elsewhere. nobody is losing sleep over an anime pedo game being censored other than those with questionable taste (and to be blunt) or those with some psychological issues that should be addressed.
@Porco You realize not all anime games are pedo right?
Sure no one is losing sleep over anime pedo games, but censorship is on a slippery slope. You're blind or ignorant if you can't see that. History has shown that if you stay silent while things this happen it gets progressively worse, and then it will start affecting you.
Maybe games are too gory and violent? Censor it.
Maybe nudity altogether is egregious? Censor it.
Maybe there are ideas being expressed that we don't like? Censor that too.
Sony can do what ever they want. I don't have to stay silent about it though.
Good for sony. Those games look like trash any way. Go see a therapist.
Nintendo is cooler than sony this gen what an odd world.
Honestly, I find this way difficult to judge. I consider myself to be liberal, meaning I think we shouldn't be too protective and people have their own responsibility. But some of the content... it is questionable. I think it is too easy to just say 'censoring is bad' and be done with it.
You might think it's tasteful, but someone else might not. That's the problem when censoring something as subjective as a video game. Sony gets to make the decisions regarding what actions to take, and I don't pretend to know what they'll take after these actions. I hope they stop here, that would be fine by me. I don't foresee them censoring what one might consider tasteful, but I'm expecting it.
I don't care for censorship of any kind, even censorship that I might find degenerate. I can compromise here because it gets close, too close, to be being exploitative and harmful. It's not quite there, but it's damned close.
The games are still sold in Japan by Sony even if they censor it and sell it in other Countries it still supporting the publisher. What makes Sony good if they still sell it in other Countries? Censorship works best when its done by the consumer.
@RogerRoger I don't really think I've taken it to the extreme though. The point I'm illustrating is that different people have different sets of morals. Some people see the extreme violence that you can do in games like GTA or Mortal Kombat to be just as reprehensible as you do to what's depicted in something like Senran Kagura (though calling it child pornography is an extreme reach in my opinion). And there are others still that see depictions of LGBT themes to be just as reprehensible. So why is it that we should take your specific set of morals to be the standard of which we should go by? I mean, considering that all characters in video games are entirely fictitious and thus no actual, real-life living persons are ever harmed in them, there isn't really any difference between one virtual immoral act and the others.
And to your last point, you're basically saying that you'd happily give up any game if there's someone that takes offense at it, correct? So that means that in addition to all sexual content, all violent content should be cut. LGBT themes are also cut as that'd cause emotional distress to some of those on the right (and some feminists when it comes to that T part). But then just having straight themes will offend LGBT people, so...no romance at all then I guess? Oh, and we can't to harm animals of any sort in any way of course, as that'd offend the PETA vegan types. Sooo what would that leave us with? Puzzles games like Tetris? Ah, but then that's a Russian-made game, and given how hated Russia is nowadays I'm sure someone will find offense at that too, so even puzzle games aren't safe...
Do you see my point? How being willing to give up anything if someone somewhere could find offense at it is a bit ludicrous once you think about it?
@TowaHerschel7 yea of course, why on earth would i think all anime games are perverted and classified as such? i am speaking specifically about the anime pedo genre — you know, games that encourage people to get a hard on over 14 year old girls. that crap needs to stop. good on sony for doing so.
You guys quoted oneangrygamer, I know you should mention the source, but this idiot was also complaining about Ellie kissing a woman in The Last of Us 2, saying Naughty Dog and Sony are spreading an agenda.
Funny how this imbecile is not okay with a lesbian kiss, but he is triggered with Sony censoring this kind of stuff. He clearly has an agenda against Sony.
I'm pretty sure that in GTA, you can go grab a hooker, then have intercourse with her, then take her to a dark street and smash her head with a hammer. Then you can steal a car and drive like a madman to smash some kids that are playing soccer.
Don't know about Red Dead, thought.
Look, there will always be a debate like "are we allowed to do this ?" or "can we let THAT pass ?" but the thing is, this kind of crazy-talking about what's right and what's not, where is good and where is evil.. All af this leads us to a world where APU will be deleted from the Simpson's world. Off course it will.
I don't pretend to have the answers here. But I know that I'm not comfortable with this vibe where others tell me what's good for me and what's not. Like I can't think by myself. I predict a tremendous backlash of all this kind of thinking in a decade : people will loose their minds, be so tired of this and go the extreme opposite : comedy will go the trash way again, like never.
As for the games, I don't like the idea of them being alterned, changed by OTHERS people than those who create the game originally. If some suits and ties think that the game is not for us western players, then don't release it. At all.
My two cents here, if you're interested in those games, buy them in the console you feel they're released in their most unchanged form, that way sales will represent actual consumer preference, and sales ultimately will force publishers to that consumer trend if they plan on making any money.
@Porco With animated characters surely they don’t need to censor it and just change the age? It’s just an arbitrary number rather than a real person with a real age.
Can you encourage someone to get aroused by a 14 year old girl? Surely you’re a paedophile or you’re not or will videogames corrupt people?
@Jriibz Read my comment again. Carefully.
Yeah, I know that. That's not what I was talking about.
@Enigk the age is one thing... but the content is also a concern. even if the characters looked over the age of 18, perhaps sony is not comfortable with the sleazy and perverted nature of the game (i.e. fondling breast mini games). it is their platform and if they don't hold those games in a positive light, they need to be censored or removed entirely. let's get real for a second... there are no more than maybe a 100k people worldwide who actually want and crave this type of content. in other words, a very niche audience. sony will not exactly lose much revenue from those folks leaving the platform. preserving a positive image is far more important than pleasing a few perves. if someone wants to jack off to anime characters, guess what? there is an entire sub genre for that within the anime industry and it is called hentai!
In an ideal world nobody would sexualise underage people. However we do not live in an ideal world and there are people out there who do sexualise the underage. I think that this kind of content should not censored because it would be much better for one of these people to view animated children rather than feeling the need to go out and find a real child to exploit. I hope my point came across as I am hoping because that's going to sound real weird otherwise
Good riddance to the Benny Hill type humour. Goodbye to the way male developers sexualise females. I wouldn't want my female friends, family members both old or young, female colleagues or gamers or any of your mothers, sisters, wives, gfs treated like a piece of meat. Well done Sony.
More outrage, I'm shocked.
I don't feel like Sony should be making these calls.
That game that was banned in the UK? That's up the ratings boards to decide. They (I'd hope) are in a better position to judge content than Sony.
With some games it's fair enough but I'm reminded of silly little changes that Nintendo always made when localizing games... We're not all kids you know.
Informing the public about mature or "questionable" content is the job of ratings boards.
Keeping it out of the hands of children is the job of retailers (if they're alone) and parents.
It's disturbing to see the extensive censorship apologism on here. All of this content being censored was previously allowed to exist on the platform with little issue, after all. People who didn't like games with heavily sexual content didn't need to play them. Unfortunately, some can't seem to be happy unless they're policing the content others consume.
There's simply no excuse for this sort of draconian censorship, and, until Sony changes this policy (not expecting them to), I can't support them or new games on their platform in good faith.
Additionally, Japanese developers who want to release Japanese PS4 games have to talk in English with American censors first.
Talk about total cultural imperialism.
This keeps up, PS5 won't be a day one purchase. They're bowing down to pressure from idiots on twitter and in Western games media (which is an absolute disgrace right now even compared to how it was in the 90s when writers assigned themselves animal names) and spitting in the face of people who have spent a lot of money on their systems over the years. I know some will act like this is no big deal, but it can become one very quick.
I'm not one for jumping on the 'boycott' bandwagon, especially when everybody all the sudden seems to be screaming to boycott something, but I could see myself spending more money on Switch and for the first time I may seriously consider getting a real gaming PC.
I'll wait to see what happens with my favorite franchises but this is seriously pathetic behavior. Hilarious to me how people can accept violence and even will argue it doesn't cause people to be violent but a grown ass woman in a string bikini or some jiggle effects (because real boobs don't bounce) and it's the 'evil male gaze' 'patriarchy' and everybody teenage boy is going to grow up and be a serial rapists. Really pathetic mentality and more pathetic that Sony is giving into idiots who think like this.
The funny thing is, a lot of people I know who aren't happy about this new policy are women. You know, the people the moral puritans seem to think they're protecting.
Games tend to benefit from 'media scandals' much more than they are hurt by them and that holds true even today. Just look at GTA V. It should have no business selling what it does given how hyper sensitive people are these days. Even better example is Kingdom Come: Deliverance, just based on game design alone it likely would have bombed hard had it not been for the fake outrage directed it at by halfwits who have no clue what they're talking about.
Censorship in general needs to stop. I mean who do you think you are telling me what I can or can't look at/say?
Yet all these years we've had women's breasts bouncing around like basketballs in Dead or Alive and even had a beach volleyball game from that franchise. Yet now it's one company censorshiping its games while others like Nintendo are not you'd think it would be the other way roubd
@Porco Aren’t these games more ecchi than hentai though? These games are no Urotsukidoji. First and only hentai I saw many years ago and only anime I ever turned off as it wasnt for me but I wouldn’t want it banned. You start going down a slippery slope if you stop media just because a few people enjoy it. We’ll all be listening to Ed Sheeran, watching Avengers movies, playing Fortnite and reading Harry Potter if we’re not going to bother with less populare fare.
@ShogunRok my lad always plays as Ivy because he says he likes her whip sword 😂. Yeah right 🤣
I think half the problem with games being made like this which stem from Japan is the legal age of consent. Not that the censorship of this game bothers me either way as I'm not interested in the game and also know right from wrong but I'm just glad our legal age of consent isn't 13 like it is in Japan otherwise our market would be flooded with alot worse.
@MysticMask You've answered your own question, though; different people do indeed have different sets of morals.
This is a news story about Sony deciding not to sell a game which... okay, let's say "walks a little too close to the edge with regards to the forced sexual exploitation of potential minors" (if we're being specific). We, as individuals, were invited to comment on the news story and I, as an individual, agreed with Sony's position.
You're asking me why my agreement with Sony should be "the specific set of morals to be the standard of which we go by" but I never said that it should be; I just said that I agreed with Sony (who are perfectly entitled to decide what they do and do not sell on their platforms, by the way, for any reason because they're the owners; despite being gay myself, I fully agreed with the recent high-profile case which found in favour of a Christian bakery who refused to sell a cake with a pro-gay slogan on, and this news story is no different). Heaven forefend the day my personal beliefs and perspectives are used as a blueprint to set law, but I'm all for individuals deciding what they like and dislike, and I support Sony for making a tough decision, that's all.
And let me make this absolutely clear once more; this is a discussion about a game in which potentially-underage girls are forcibly sexualised. All of the other "examples" of Sony censorship in the story haven't been confirmed, and the source quoted is dubious. I am only specifically speaking about censorship in terms of protecting minors and avoiding the normalisation of child abuse. If you want to talk to me about my stance on violence in gaming or the #MeToo movement, let's do it someplace else (there's a forum here for just such occasions).
I'm sorry if any of the above seems heated; I'm usually quite diplomatic. I'm just really, really struggling to see how somebody can try and defend the content that Sony has censored in this one specific example. If we were talking about any other subject matter, my personal comment would obviously be different, because every case is different and there's never any "one size fits all" response. I think Sony realise this, because they're clearly dealing with censorship on a game-by-game basis.
Since you skipped over the areas where I agreed with you, I'll skip over my own personal conviction that I'd sacrifice myself in any way to protect others from harm, mainly because that point has been abstracted beyond what we're currently talking about, and there's enough information in the above paragraphs for you to extrapolate what my response would be.
But cheers for the debate. Always good to examine these issues thoroughly and openly, and Push Square is a pretty good and safe environment in which to do so when compared to other, more vitriolic parts of the internet.
Usually I despise censorship as I think if you don't like something, it is your responsibility to find something else to play rather having developers cater to your whims. However in the case of letting the player effectively be a pedophile, I understand.
I don't think teenage girls should be depicted in this way, so I 100% agree with censorship like this. Arguing in the name of consumer-choice is odd to me, as that discussion should be limited to micro-transactions and similar superficial stuff, not serious matters like this.
My thought has always been that games like this are fully aimed at Japanese gamers, most of which are teenage boys as far as I know. They are not aimed at adult Westerners at all. So I don't feel they promote pedophilia. The question for me is whether these games should be marketed outside of Japan in the first place, considering the majority of Western gamers are adults, it ends up in the wrong demographic by default. It's an irrelevant question perhaps, since I still think it should be censored, whether it's in Japan or elsewhere. Censoring stuff like this does not hurt anyone.
Sony is a distributor and platform-holder, it is fully within their ethical or moral right to decide what their platform is used for and what it wants, or doesn't want, to associate itself with.
@RogerRoger How do feel about 14 year old Ellie making out with her gf on E3 then? They should delete that obviously!
@FullbringIchigo Man poor Sony. If only there was a board that rated games based on age. Or that our current systems had a parental control of some kind that locked what a parent set. A man can dream eh?
@Tako I'm gonna quote myself here:
"If we were talking about any other subject matter, my personal comment would obviously be different, because every case is different and there's never any "one size fits all" response. I think Sony realise this, because they're clearly dealing with censorship on a game-by-game basis."
I've never played The Last of Us and likely never will, but I'm pretty sure context is king. From what I understand, two consenting individuals in a narrative-driven game that will obviously explain the emotional maturity required to survive in such an extreme dystopian situation is clearly different to tying down a schoolgirl against her will and touching her all over as she struggles.
But then I don't really think you were looking for that answer with such a dog-whistle comment, so please accept my apologies.
Context, context, context, context, context, context, context.
Fast becoming the most important word in the English language, and not nearly enough people on the internet know what it means, apparently.
"Two consenting x"
See this is where you are not getting it. They ain't adults and its under the same media that is censoring the evil anime games. I guess its just ok because they gotta push their own narrative.
Well look at you popping outta nowhere! Comradery! Gotta back up the poor Sony! Context is king indeed! That being said I myself don't even play said games they are obviously niche and meant for other people. Just though how utterly rubbish it is for a company to actively cherry pick when it has for over 20 years not cared about a thing until a lil while ago. Makes you think what changed.
@Tako I'm sorry, but you've deliberately misquoted me; I specifically said "two consenting individuals" and then went on to make comments hopeful for a narrative explanation of their "emotional maturity" in the context of the game. I also guarantee that I haven't edited that post since making it.
If we're gonna do this, let's do it accurately, please.
And if The Last of Us II is shown to be exploiting Ellie's relationship or character for sexual or objectifying purposes when it's finally released, I guarantee that I'd be just as outraged, if not moreso (because there's no cultural identity background for Naughty Dog, a Western developer, to hide behind). So far, we've seen a kiss between two individuals of a similar age. We haven't seen anything anywhere near forced groping of a minor by an adult, so to draw the comparison in the first place is flawed.
It was an extreme comparisson. But I thought it was just. Literally nothing else was shown outside that kiss. Shes just a kid it was weird af considering the game is aimed at Adults. Why even show us that? We know shes a lesbian from the last game so ??? That being said I agree on this game's content being weird but they have their own market and I doubt a kid is gonna buy a game from playasia or something.
Ie: uncensored jpn version
@Tako Well, considering it was a brief glimpse designed to generate hype and get people talking about it, I'd say Sony and Naughty Dog (or at least their marketing teams) chose to show the perfect moment at E3, because here we are. I'm pretty confident, and very hopeful, that it'll all make sense in the context of the final release.
But that's fair enough, and thanks for bringing it up, because we've kinda got two case studies now - how to perhaps handle these themes correctly, and how to perhaps not.
And like you, I'd very much hope that there aren't many kids into uncensored adult-targeted games, but I'd still respectfully maintain that it's up to Sony what they sell on their consoles. This specific example obviously crossed a line for them and I respect that; unless they take the unprecedented step of making their internal assessment procedures public, I doubt we'll ever fully understand the criteria, which is where I agree some confusion in fans and gamers can be caused.
Just to be clear, that's not me calling for full disclosure from Sony, nor am I trying to suggest how they should run their business. I respect their choice; what I don't respect are things that are borderline-illegal (if not just straight-up illegal) going unchallenged.
I think it goes without saying that this will not last, unless SCE wants to completely concede the Japanese market to Nintendo which, as a now California-based company with heavily western-focused titles as their main output, they may be happy to do that.
Speaking of Nintendo, we had a period of this sort of heavy handed censorship with the Wii U and 3DS, which absolutely didn't help get titles like Tokyo Mirage Sessions out to wider audiences, and in fact Probably hurt the sales of titles like FE Fates. Granted, those are first-party titles Nintendo had significant investment in, and these are third party titles by small companies with a limited reach, so perhaps when it's Sony's own purse strings not being affected they really won't see any downsides to these new policies.
That said, the bulk of my PlayStation enjoyment has came from Japanese third-parties, especially in recent years, so I can't help but be a little worried for the future of Sony's Japanese Third-party relations if they continue down their current path.
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Thanks for understanding
This is just pushing me to buy these games on other systems. This really seems like the first step towards PS3 era Sony. Talk about a total joke.
@Enigk it panders to the same audience, so what difference does it make? in this world, there are cultural differences whether you want to admit it or not. if japan has no problem with pedophilia-like content and wants to keep promoting it, they have the right to do so. that said, this might not fly in the west for obvious reasons. nothing is stopping someone from importing said game. also, i don't see a very niche game like this encouraging censorship on the whole... if anything, violence and sexual content has been increasing over the past few years in the west so it is misguided to assume censorship is going to suddenly worsen. some content is just plain wrong whether you want to admit it or not... and pedophilia-like content found in some of these games absolutely need to be censored or banned. it is disturbing that japan continues to create such content but that doesn't mean the west is obligated to adopt and accept it.
@RogerRoger You calllinf this stuff child pornography is an insult to victims of actual child pornography. Get real dude. Not to mention in the US this is demonstrably and legally not CP, so you’re just wrong. Though I suppose if you live in the nanny states that are the UK and European countries it is.
@thatguyEZ i think your self entitled attitude is a joke. you are part of a very small, niche, demographic who sony doesn't want to pander to any longer. find what you crave on steam. have fun!
@Tako Massive success in the West is probably what changed.
And I'm not defending Sony, I think by and large people should be able to make up their own minds. But context is always a factor, regardless of the issue. Nothing is as black and white as the internet attempts to make it.
"Censorship in general needs to stop. I mean who do you think you are telling me what I can or can't look at/say?".
Flawed logic is flawed. They most certainly have been telling you what you and can't look at for ages. Child pornography for example.
Try inciting violence against a group of people and see if nothing happens to you.
Have people like you forgotten that they live in a society with rules and laws?
@Gamer83 Plenty of other games have been condemned by the media and ended up not selling well. There is no definite proof that those games sold well because of controversy.
Meanwhile even Nintendo is moving away from censorship.
@RogerRoger I just want to mad props for having so much respect for others opinions. The world needs more of that.
@Porco If stories like these weren’t printed most people wouldn’t even be aware of this kind of stuff. These games will likely sell a few more copies now out curiosity.
I personally never attach an age to characters in games. Apparently in Bravely Default they changed character ages in the west but I don't recall them ever mentioning their age in the games. Just an arbitrary number in the instruction book or something I think.
I find it strange how much people object to this stuff in games but will happily commit mass murder in them. Murder is a more serious crime but not in a video game ethics it seems. In violent movies people get more upset when an animal rather than a human dies. I don’t understand the logic. How can people be selective? You either agree or disagree with criminal acts?
@RogerRoger Eh, the point that I was making with that question is that it's extremely hypocritical to me for someone to be perfectly okay with mowing down (in both senses of the word) dozens of pedestrians (who also didn't consent to being violently murdered) in something like GTA, yet find this content to somehow be so much worse for some reason. And Sony was perfectly okay with this mode that had been in the past 3 Senran Kagura games on Sony platforms back when they were released in the west, so all of a sudden having an issue with it NOW is also rather hypocritical of them.
To your second point, how exactly is censoring this mode "protecting minors" in any way? That's suggesting that not having this mode censored is somehow "harming minors"? What actual minors are possibly harmed in the making of this game when 100% of the people involved in making it are adults? To say that playing this somehow "normalizes child abuse" sounds awfully similar to the case that Jack Thompson (and others, some to this day even) made with regards to why violence in video games is "bad". If killing dozens to hundreds of innocent people in GTA and RDR hasn't produced hundreds of serial killers, then how is this somehow instead going to produce hundreds of child abusers?
And to the last point...um...you wanted me to instead continue arguing the points where you agreed with me? Or to, I don't know, thank you for agreeing with me on those points? I'm actually not trying to be snarky or anything here, but rather genuinely confused as to how I'm suppose to acknowledge when you've agreed with me in a debate. Thus far your replies to me have come off as quite diplomatic to me, and I quite appreciate it!
@Porco I don’t think you know what the word entitled means friendo.
People saying anime games is automatically a pedo game. It’s not folks. Should we automatically start calling games like cod and gta murder games?.
definately not true about Warriors Orochi 4 unless it didnt change in NA version or they dulled it down , but as for history im pretty sure the Bra wasnt invented back then so staying on the historical side of it its accurate LOL. its not like they are 90% naked like Dead or Alive extreme and based in time where there are shoulder boulder holders
How I see it is if Game of Thrones on television shows Rape, and Incest for Children to see among many other sexual acts, and violence, then why isn't television being censored even if it is HBO children can still turn to the channel more easily then switching to a M Rated game that the parent should of not bought them. Some Parents should just abort their child rather then having them if they can't raise them properly.
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