Topic: You Died. The Dark Souls Series Discussion Thread

@colonelkilgore Yeah, bud — there’s a huge barrier to entry but then you just start to get lost in the game loop. I’m not sure how DS1 stacks up content-wise to the other Souls games, but it feels much longer than Demon’s Souls and even Bloodborne. I’m not sure that when I played Bloodborne that I was as dialed into the whole FromSoft schtick, so I probably missed a lot of the content (despite going out of my way to save-scum and see all 3 endings), but I feel like I saw most of what Demon’s Souls had to offer. In DS1 however, I’m discovering so many little side activities and optional areas and bosses. I could have easily finished the game by now probably, but I’m soaking up all these intricate webs that From weaves into the game. I do remember after finishing Bloodborne that I had the distinct impression that the game could be replayed many times over and get a new experience each time and I’m feeling a lot of that here too. Weapon and build variance would be part of the potential novelty on replay, but also the complex NPC side stories that if you do A it locks you out of B and C. “Or if you don’t do area D by point E then F won’t be available and therefore NPC G will be dead and you’re locked out of H and have to do I and J…”

For example, I’m getting help from a guide and I’m pretty sure I’d never have know how to save Solaire if I didn’t consult one. How was I supposed to know to level up the Daughter of Chaos’s covenant with 30 Humanity which opens a door with a shortcut where there is a specific larvae you hav to kill un order to keep it from later attaching to Solaire and driving him insane and attacking later. Who would have known that in their own…?

And that’s only one of many such storylines that ultimately affect how the game unveils. Normally cryptic narrative and gameplay would be a turn-off for me, but I’m fully invested at this point. It is a lot though. I’m going to have to take a break after this and cleanse my brain of all this for a while. But until then, I probably have 20-30 more hours I reckon. At least. 😅

I'm no expert on this but I would think, depending on your definition of meaningful content, that Bloodborne is longer than Dark Souls. They both have a fairly meaty DLC and an array of optional bosses to fight, but Bloodborne also has the chalice dungeons which you need to navigate in order to get the final optional boss and the Platinum.

@johncalmc I probably felt BB was shorter because I did skip the Chalice Dungeons and the Old Hunters DLC. DS Remastered has the DLC baked in so I’ll be giving it a whirl if I don’t burn out first.

I also think that the first half of DS1 has so much trekking back and forth that I don’t remember having to do in BB, so it seems really protracted until you get the Lord Vessel.

@Th3solution The Bloodborne DLC is really hard as I recall. I had loads of trouble with the main boss in it. Also some of the chalice dungeon bosses are pretty outrageous. There's a fire dog that's a bit much.

I haven't played Bloodborne for ages, actually. I should really revisit it but I'm kinda banking on them one day porting it or giving it a glow up on PS5.

@johncalmc Those are my thoughts too — surely Bloodborne will get some kind of current gen treatment eventually. A patch at least with the much requested 60 fps, or a remaster with a few graphical touch ups, or a full remake/Directors Cut a la The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, etc. (and Horizon Zero Dawn for cryin’ out loud) with full PS5 bells and whistles, ray traced 4K and the fps upgrade all packaged with the DLC included and turn it over for a reselling and make some money off of it. Surely one of those three will happen in the next few years, and when it does I’ll consider a replay as well. It might be fun to do one of those specialty builds like a bloodtinge build or something

@Th3solution yeah I totally get you about how to save sunbro... very convoluted.

Talking about extra/hidden areas... have you visited Ash Lake yet?

@colonelkilgore Not yet. I came upon the twisty tree area (I forget what that’s called) and I think Ash Lake is at the bottom of that horrible mess, if I’m not mistaken. Those blasted curse frogs litter the area so after getting a few items there (namely it’s a nice place to farm lizards) I got out of there as quick as I could. I know there is some tasty items at Ash Lake though, but I wanted to be armed with curse reversal items before going there. Is there something I need to do there?

@Th3solution I think any souls-fan needs to visit Ash Lake. It’s not integral story-wise but it ‘feels’ special and important to the deeper more occult lore. Maybe it’s just me but it felt both the most chilled area but also the closest I’d ever been to unravelling the eternally-unravelled.

Edit. Maybe my favourite Souls music at Ash Lake too.

@colonelkilgore That’s interesting. I didn’t know it was that important of a place, and so I’ll definitely give it a visit. Now since I have the Lord Vessel and know I won’t be stuck down there. As I got halfway down the tree and realized I’m going to have to find my way back up this maze to get out of here, I turned tail and ran back. It is very conceivable to just get lost down there and not be able to climb back out, at least without an hour of head banging while navigating the labyrinth.

@Th3solution yeah probably a good idea that, will avoid any unnecessary anxiety in relation to trying to ascend the innards of the world tree. Don’t expect any answers down there… but it may spark some pertinent questions if you get me.

Also don’t read until you’re down there and have dispatched all the enemies look around the distant surroundings and those other ‘tree trunks’ may well remind you of the distant surroundings of an oft-visited and ‘magical’ location in Bloodborne 😉

I started playing Bloodborne last night. I'm about four or five hours in. I'm actually surprised by how well it runs. Is this game running at 30 frames? I can barely tell. I'd been holding out on replaying Bloodborne for the remaster that's never come so it's actually the Soulsborne game I'm least familiar with despite it probably being my favourite. And I'd heard people moaning about how it runs. But it's running fine on my PS5.

I can't remember what I'm supposed to be doing. It's been too long. I've smashed up Cleric Beast and Father Gascoigne and I've reached the Blood-Starved Beast. Got it down to about 20% health but it poisoned me to death. I didn't even know you could summon NPCs in this game but I summoned one and he got killed too. They must have patched that in after I played it or I just somehow missed the entire thing. I'm probably just not remembering it properly.

Anyway, this game has the vibes. The gothic horror tentacley thing it has going on. It's real good. Banging music too. You know when you're in a scrap when the music kicks in. Best music of any Soulsborne game I'd say.

@johncalmc yeah it runs at 30 but can sometimes seem significantly worse than 30 due to frame pacing issues. As with all games at 30 though, you get used to it after a session or two and is a great game regardless (my fave game of all-time actually).

Yeah you could always summon in Bloodborne but I agree, the summons are easier to miss (& less frequent iirc) than in Souls.

Even though the game still holds up (regardless of what the interwebs may say) I’d love a remaster, just so I could go platinum the whole thing again… unbelievable game!

@colonelkilgore Framerate has actually been stable for me so far. Really smooth. I'm not very far though, so maybe it'll buckle once things get a little spicier.

It's funny playing this again after all these years. Bloodborne was the first Soulsborne game I played and I've always held it in very high regard, but since then I've played all the Dark Souls games a few times and Elden Ring twice. Going back, I'm surprise by just how much Bloodborne holds up for me. It's actually even better than I remember. The combat rocks, and the music and the aesthetic are so strong.

It's also funny having more experience with the series now, seeing all the things I didn't understand or that I missed when I played Bloodborne originally. The first time around, for example, I had no idea that you could summon help from other players. I didn't use a guide and I didn't understand what anything did, and so I had to solo the whole thing. I couldn't parry with the gun the first time either, so I two handed the blades of whatever - the sword that splits into two? - and never used the guns. This time I'm using the gun.

@johncalmc Sweet! Glad you’re finding enjoyment there. I’m in the same boat with you as far as BB being my first, but I’ve not been through the whole Souls series yet like you. But I likewise did the whole thing solo, as I did also with Demon’s Souls. It’s only been with Dark Souls 1 now that I’ve been dabbling in summoning NPC’s. It almost feels like cheating since I was so used to tackling all these bosses solo.

The main obstacle to NPC summoning in the Souls games is the requirement to be in physical form to be able to summon. (I don’t remember how BB summons are triggered, but I think it’s just more of a case-by-case basis as to whether you talked to the NPC beforehand or did some prerequisite for their summon sign to appear?) I played nearly all of DeS in spirit form so as to not shift my world tendency toward black and so far I’m playing most of DS1 in spirit/hollowed form since… well I die a lot, and also it’s just not as much of an HP penalty to worry about burning humanity all the time to keep my body. It also saves the the anxiety of a potential invasion from other players.

As far as the parry mechanic with the firearm, I used it more than I’ve used parrying in the Souls games, but I never relied on it very much since I was so inconsistent with it. I do remember Blood Starved Beast was one where the parry / bloodtinge spamming was really effective. For some reason that enemy was easy to stun with the gun, iirc.

So… I think this past weekend’s adventures through Dark Souls has been amongst my most frustrating yet. I’m still very overleveled and doing okay for myself, but the areas I finished didn’t necessarily correspond to character strength, or even to player skill. Those areas included Lost Izalith, fighting Bed of Chaos, and then going to Duke’s Archives and Crystal Caves and dispatching Seath the Scaleless. Also I tackled (for the second time) The Great Hollow so I could make my way to Ash Lake. Then experienced the ridiculous pitch black of Tomb of Giants where I’ve taken a break for now after navigating through to the boss gate.

I’m not sure if I’m just getting a wee bit burned out on the game or if these areas are really as annoying as I felt they were, but a few times this weekend I felt like I’m ready for this nonsense to be OVER! 😅 So many ‘cheap’ deaths to gravity. So many cryptic and twisted paths and trolling of the player. Wow. I mean, I’m still quite enjoying it, but these areas were a bad run of environmental obstacles and ‘read the mind of the game designer’ type of mechanics. Kudos to anyone who cleared these areas without use of a guide. Between being lost in the dark, falling on invisible paths, having the floor fall out from under me, being kicked into the pit, and getting permanently cursed… I’m wondering what other one-shot death tricks or ways to drive the player insane are left.

But for @colonelkilgore , the one reprieve I had was my visit to Ash Lake. Outside of the hydra (much easier to kill this second time around since I knew the water drop-off trick and it was actually easier to see the underwater boundary) there was a serene quality to the area.

As far as Soulsborne lore, I do see the significance as well, although it’s been a while since I played Bloodborne but the Hunter’s Dream is apparently one of these world trees? Like perhaps Ash Lake is a connected area with all the other realms having their own tree? There is another great franchise that does this and I’m worried to say which n case you haven’t played it yet, but the ending of the third installment has similar (but more overt) interconnecting worlds represented by physical structures.

Nevertheless in Dark Souls it doesn’t come right out and identify the connection, so I’m not sure it’s real or imagined by the fanbase. Regardless, it’s a pretty cool area, if nothing else it was calm and serene amidst the cramped, dark, twisted, and dangerous areas I’d gone through before and after. 😄

I’m getting close now, I’d suspect. And like I say, for the first time, I’m ready to move on to another game. Still, I’m invested in the series quite firmly now. I probably won’t have much time this week but hopefully polish it off by next weekend…? Maybe.

Yeah, I think that’s what the implication is but there nothing concrete to know for sure. In all honesty, it may well just be Miyazaki being fast and loose with the lore and in terms of details that even he hasn’t got clear in his own head. Your interpretation is what I take from it though 👍

@colonelkilgore Come to think of it there is a significant area of Demon’s Souls that also has a significant hollowed out giant tree… Another possible clue that there’s something to this.

@Th3solution 🤔 yeah that’s a good point too. Maybe we should’ve been calling these games tree-likes all along 😉

@Th3solution @colonelkilgore I'm not sure any of that means anything like that the games from different series are tied to each other. But there things which you notice that can pop up in the games which you notice as play through more of them. It is more like a Miyazaki stamp or signature. Or something. 😆

Finally finished Dark Souls Remastered. What a wonderful journey.

I’ve said a lot about the game and so I don’t think I need to carry on too much more. The DLC area was really good and quite difficult. Especially the DLC bosses. Both Knight Artorias and Kalameet were really challenging, but I was so overleveled and equipped to the gills that I got by both of them on the first try, but it was close. Especially Kalameet. Doing the DLC made the main game final boss feel like a complete joke. Especially since I went ahead and summoned Solaire. Literally didn’t even have to heal once and I smashed him in about 4-5 hits while he had his back to me fighting Solaire.

Regardless, just such a fun and rewarding game. It makes me want to jump right into the next From game, but I’m going to cleanse my palate first for a while. I did go to GameStop looking for a copy of DS2, but couldn’t find one. If I find it cheap I might go ahead and get it. We’ll see

Tagging @TheBrandedSwordsman since you were interested in how I ended up. Really loved the game. I’d say it’s a better game than Demon’s Souls, but not quite as good as Bloodborne, to compare to the two other From games I’ve played. It’s a game I could see myself playing again with a different build to see some of the things I missed.

Incidentally, I save-scummed to get both endings. I liked the Dark Lord ending better, tbh.