Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

This just popped in my YouTube feed, "can Xbox dethrone PlayStation?"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L3-w9OvwUIU
Fascinating bit of history and I won't say what I think about some skateboarding through the office corridors.

Yeah I was recommended this too just the other day.

@CaptD If you enjoyed that, then I highly recommend watching Xbox's own documentary series of its history: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0il2l-B_WwadxfTkK3-NL...

I watched it when it came out and it's really good. They actually touched upon a lot of sensitive topics, such as the red ring of death and how they screwed up the Xbox One.

@CaptD The way it's going, I doubt 'Xbox' as a Console will ever dethrone Playstation in terms of Sales and I wonder whether MS will continue to 'compete' in the Console market beyond this generation.

MS aren't making people want an Xbox Specifically 'today' even if you 'want' to play their Exclusives. Just because you can't play them on Playstation for example, doesn't mean you 'must' own an Xbox Console to play as they are released on PC/Steam (so playable on SteamDeck 'consoles') and of course on Cloud (not the 'best' option, but a cheap option). If you own a Steam Deck or PC for example, what incentive do you have to buy an Xbox too. When Sony have an Exclusive, you have to buy a Playstation or 'miss-out' (until Sony bring it to PC)

With MS also talking about Steam/Epic stores on their Hardware, trying to 'compete' with increasingly 'cheaper' PC's and Handheld PC's, it seems more 'likely' MS will merge Console and their 'Surface' PC Hardware division and make a Surface Handheld PC and/or surface X Box PC to plug into a Display (like a Console) but are 'PC's - not 'locked' Console platforms.

Therefore I can see MS not even Competing with Sony Playstations anymore, not technically in that Console market. When gamers have a choice of a £500 console only playing a selection of the games a £500 'Handheld PC' can play with its own screen built in - inc EVERY game the £500 console does, that gamer isn't going to buy 'both'. It makes more sense to buy a handheld PC and PS5 for example, maybe buy a PS5 and play any Xbox games that appeal over the Cloud on your Samsung TV.

I don't know if MS will make a new gen console or not, but I doubt they'll ever catch Playstation as they certainly aren't prioritising that platform. To play a Playstation game - like Spider-Man 2, Wolverine, Horizon, God of War etc 'day 1', the only option is to buy a Playstation. That's what Sony 'hopes' by putting their games on PC later, that 'fans' of their IP will buy a Playstation to play their games 'first' rather than wait years for a port to PC. However, if you have a PC, you never 'need' to buy an Xbox. In fact PC sometimes gets 'Xbox' games first - like MSFS, Gears Tactics, AoE4 etc. Don't have to 'upgrade' your XB1 or even buy a Console with Cloud options either. So Xbox consoles are and I think will continue to be an 'option' but maybe not the best option. It maybe better to buy a PS5 and play whatever 'Xbox' games on PC/Cloud or even a SteamDeck or RoG Ally - use the PS5 for all multi-platform and Exclusives but play Starfield, Fable, Perfect Dark etc on whatever other 'devices' you have.

That's why MS will 'never' catch or surpass Playstation. Even if MS release a console to compete with PS6 for example, Series owners, PC gamers or those who play on 'Game Pass Cloud on their TV/Mobile/Laptop/Tablet may not be interested in upgrading if they can play EVERY game on what they already have. Some will upgrade for the 'performance' boost and/or 'local' play but it'll still not have the 'incentive' for gamers to buy or 'miss out' on playing games Day 1.

Hardware is just one aspect - but MS could dethrone Sony as the 'biggest' in Gaming Revenue with their 'own' platform (so not counting TenCent for example) even if their 'Console' remains 3rd in terms of Console sales. Can still have a larger install base with 'more' gamers playing their IP's, having the largest 'communities' that support their Gaming with Minecraft, CoD, WoW etc Sell 'more' games than Sony will - but their Console could become more a 'PC' - more a DirectX Box with Steam, Epic and MS store fronts, windows OS etc. Maybe their 'rumoured' Handheld is more a Surface Tablet shrunk down into a gaming PC format - a Surface Handheld PC to compete with RoG Ally, Lenovo Go, MSI Claw etc.

After all, unless its more 'powerful' and longer battery life, who'd pay £500 for a 'portable' Series S, locked to 'Xbox' and requiring a Subscription for 'online' gaming when a RoG Ally for £500 plays every Xbox game, every Steam game (inc PS releases), has emulation etc etc and no 'online' Sub fees. So even a handheld Xbox maybe won't sell unless its priced more 'competitively' with SteamDeck and maybe could still release a Surface Handheld.

Seeing what Apple are doing with their M4 chip in a super thin device like an ipad pro and its AI, MS with AI in their Surface line, its not too much of a stretch to think MS will make a Surface Handheld PC with 'AI' to handle upscaling, RT etc like DLSS. Therefore I don't think MS will ever 'compete' with Sony with Console sales because MS isn't prioritising that 'hardware' and other Hardware may offer Gamers everything Xbox releases Day 1 and a whole lot more besides - inc Playstations PC releases, some of which are 'Day 1' on PC - Hellblade 2, Concorde, Lego Horizons...

Well... Xbox just made one more sale 😱 so they might not go out of the console business just yet.

Basically just got it as a game pass machine as I can't be bothered to build (learn to build) a PC at the moment 🫠

It's great to see that they finally have some games coming out that i'm interested in (over the next few seasons) Only 4 years late to the party, but still worth celebrating 🎉🎉

@Ravix Did you go for the Series X or S?

@Ravix yeah I honestly feel that right now is the best time to buy an x-box since the first half of the 360 era, so hope you enjoy. Personally I’m still on the fence a bit for a couple of reasons really, one - I have over 1000 games in my backlog and while I have very little chance of playing all of them, they’re all games I want to play and adding an Xbox into the mix would only make that more challenging… and two - while the recent Xbox showcase was excellent, without wanting to seem negative those previewed games and any future games still have to be proven to fulfill their promise, something that Xbox has struggled with in the past. Having said all that though, they’re definitely moving in the right direction as far as I’m concerned.

Hope you enjoy Gamepass and I’ll be interested to read your thoughts on it.

@Ravix Congrats! welcome to the club. Definitely lots to love about Xbox, smart delivery and quick resume being two of my favourites, looking forward to reading about your experience. What are you going to tackle first?

@Th3solution

@colonelkilgore yeah, and even though I didn't have a 360, a few friends did, and they were definitely on form then, and seem to be getting a bit of that back now. I still didn't like all the chunky space marine stuff though, which is one reason I never had one. To me it seemed like they made games for a slightly different target market and that was part of the ick factor 😅 I never knew of the old 'xbox goes hand in hand with doritos and mountain dew' adage they had, but it does sum up quite nicely why I never gravitated towards the green. Even though the odd thing like Alan Wake was there, but I just played that on someone else's xbox, so...

Main thing is though, if they release the games people want, they will get back to being equally popular. That was always the strange thing in the periods where they seemed to forget that part 😅

@AgentCooper probably Starfield just because it was the one game I thought would convince me to get an Xbox a few years ago. But then it got very mixed reviews so I don't know. Something game passy anyway. Probably going to download a few and try them out once I've wrapped up AC Mirage and see what takes my fancy. I'll use Starfield to test out the actual console and how it runs though. I got all the green ticks for my TV set up, so that was pleasing, but didn't get around to actually testing any games out after i"d finished setting it up.

So far my only impressions are "Jesus christ that is one bright UI" I don't really want the xbox logo burned in to my screen after a few seconds 😅

Any game pass recommendations welcome. But I'm in no rush to get through anything, just to see what sticks after Mirage and is a good test for the console itself.

@Ravix Congrats on your purchase. I mainly use my Series X as a Game Pass machine as well but also to play Xbox/Xbox 360 games, which is really useful.

I'm currently playing the latest game from The Chinese Room, Still Wakes The Deep, on Game Pass. It's honestly quite good so far. For a "walking simulator", it's still very engaging as you'll be doing a lot of stuff, such as climbing, jumping, shimmying and there are even stealth sections. Not to mention the engrossing story. I recommend giving it a shot.

I just love all the day one releases on Game Pass. Being able to play them for a low price with Game Pass is awesome. The amount of money you save with Game Pass will eventually offset the cost of the console and then you'll be purely saving money on every new game you play.

@LtSarge yeeeah, GTA 4 is calling me with backwards compatibility, but I must resist. I'm going to check out Fable at some point as it is one that passed me by and I want to see what it was like.

Day one stuff does probably help with the customer value once there is stuff you want, for sure. And now the overall catalogue seems in a place where I can justify having the sub to myself as there is some games that, even if they came to ps5 eventually, I'd be paying £50/70 digitally each to play them once anyway. And there's some stuff from my PS wishlist that I'd be buying for £40/50 in sales when I got round to it.

How do you usually get your gamepass subs? I've read a few things how different people stack them for the best value?

@Ravix Lol, I assume the Series X then. 😅
The cheaper Series S console is supposedly what the majority of people have but it’s starting to become clear that it won’t be able to run many of the newest games going forward.

@Th3solution I was going to plump for the full on "X gon' give it to ya" gif, but I thought i'd not be as on the nose. I mean, the series S is just an aversion to all our senses and sensibilities, isn't it? And it's rubbed devs up the wrong way too.

I also imagine at some point they will have to the abandon their "it has to run on S right now" strategy. If Fable development starts to struggle, for example. I imagine the games closer to being out have managed it, Indiana Jones etc. But some of the 2025 releases, who knows? 😱 there's already been some third party mishaps where games have to release later on Xbox. And at some point you think they will want that to not be happening 😅

@Ravix I pay for mine monthly but I also get a 'free' month at least every quarter because of being an 'Xbox' Ambassador and completing activities to 'earn' enough points to get a free month of GPU. I also do Microsoft Rewards to earn points that I convert to Game Pass (or to Xbox Credit if I see a Digital game I want). I could buy 'Years' of Game Pass Core and then try and convert that to Game Pass 'Ultimate' but I did that when I joined GPU and as I effectively only pay for 2months out of every 3 (max), I don't mind having it set up this way.

As I only pay 2/3rds of the Annual cost maximum because I get a month 'free' every 3 months, its easy to add pre-paid/gift voucher codes, like adding the 3months I got with the RoG Ally, and then when the 'free' runs out, I have it set-up to pay monthly so I am not worrying about my Subscription running out or losing access.

What I will say though is I do think too many focus on the Day 1 'exclusives' ONLY - the Games that MS themselves are making and putting in to Game Pass. 2022 was 'awful' for MS with nothing 'major' of their own - yes you got Deathloop, Grounded, Pentiment etc but arguably 'nothing' to 'justify' Game Pass, yet if you look at all the Games added Day 1, inc MLB for example, you could save by playing on Game Pass over those playing without - regardless of whether that was on Xbox or PS5. Games like Persona, Like a Dragon or Plague Tale so whilst you may have a PS5, playing those on Game Pass could save you 'money' that you could 'buy' a few extra games on PS5, maybe not have to 'miss-out' on a Game because you can't afford to buy both right now.

I don't know that my method for getting and/or paying is the 'best' value. I maybe could save more by stacking Game Pass Core pre-paid cards/vouchers from CDKeys (or similar) and try to convert them to Game Pass Ultimate (Although I don't think its 1month of Core gives 1 month of Ultimate these days), but it suits me and I'm not effectively paying 'full price' over a year, I'm not worried. I still feel I get a LOT of value considering its costing me less than 2 AAA games a year yet play more 'games' than I would get to play for the same cost. I feel I get 'great' value without having to try and find some loophole to save a few extra pence a month. It's probably costing me less than £2 a week.

By comparison, just to subscribe to Twitch/YT for a month to have Ad Free viewing costs more than Game Pass - subbing to support your Favourite 2-3 streamers a month on yt or Twitch would cost more than a month of Game Pass Ultimate. World of Warcraft Subscription costs about as much as Game Pass does and if you look at SkyQ for example that brings 'movies' before they are aired on Freeview TV without Ads too, that has a massive 'monthly' fee involved in that too - with no guarantee you can watch Digital Films you've purchased if you leave Sky...

@Ravix I've always just paid for one month of Game Pass for Console at a time whenever I feel like subscribing. To be clear, I don't subscribe to Game Pass every month, only when notable titles get added. And I also don't subscribe to Ultimate because that's a waste of money for me as I don't play online games. Yes, you do get access to EA Play as well, but you might as well subscribe to Game Pass and EA Play separately. That way you can get e.g. one month of Game Pass and one month of EA Play (in total two months of subscription services) instead of one month of Ultimate for the same price.

I also recommend checking out Forza Horizon 5 and Sunset Overdrive if you want some really fun games. The former is the best open world racing game I've played and the latter is the most fun Insomniac game I've ever played. Both are just pure fun.

@BAMozzy @LtSarge yeah, I'm currently thinking - do the trial - then get 3 months Ultimate or Console, and see how much I use it. There's games coming up that I'm going to be buying anyway, so it'd probably end up as another supplemental subscription at times. 3 months worth to play a couple of big titles, and have access to some random smaller titles seems pretty good value.

But also, I could get 2 years of core for about £64 (so one AAA title) and then boost it to Ultimate and get 2/3rds of the sub time, I guess.

Is Gamepass Console literally just gamepass without EA and online? It seems like that would probably suit my needs overall, as I have PSN anyway for online games, and not sure if there's a bunch of game pass stuff I'd play online anyway.

Oh, and can you buy subscriptions via the store on Xbox using credit/funds you've added to your console wallet? Equivalent to how it works on PS? As on PS I will get wallet funds, then do my subs and buy games from that, rather than making a payment for each one from a card or PayPal.

@LtSarge Yes I believe that old trick of 36 months Gold/Core converted to 36 months of GPU is no longer in place its more like 3months of Core 'converts' to 2 months of GPU so 3yrs worth of Core would give you 2years of Game Pass these days.

Of course that will save you money and if you join Xbox Ambassadors programme (which if you complete enough activities will give you a Free GPU month every Quarter (3:2 ratio) and MS Rewards, you can actually save more. As I said, I prefer to keep paying monthly and doing Activities daily, weekly or monthly to earn points and a 'month' of free GPU so I only pay for 2 out of every 3 months anyway - which probably equates to about the same ratio of Conversion 3:2.

If you aren't expecting or intending to play on Xbox every month to the point that you are better off only paying for the 3 -5 months you actually are going to play, maybe it makes sense just to pay the full monthly price rather than pay less per month but overall pay more. Cost and Value are going to vary from person to person based on their own preferences and usage.

I find Game Pass Ultimate to be 'essential' for me - not just because of the 'Online' aspect, because I also have PC hardware - a 3080ti Gaming Laptop and a Handheld PC - but also a Samsung TV. Game Pass Ultimate combines Game Pass PC, Game Pass Console, Game Pass Cloud and Game Pass Core, as well as adds EA Access and 'Perks' for a 'little' extra. That means I can play almost anywhere on almost any hardware. Start playing on Console, jump to the Handheld PC if out and about or play on my Laptop if the TV is in use. I don't even need to turn the Xbox on to play on my TV, I can stream with a 'hardwired' internet connection (not some 'iffy wifi') at no extra cost. It suits my situation the best. But if you don't want/need PC/Cloud gaming, EA Access or Online access, even if its just a bit more, I can understand why you don't subscribe...

Game Pass Console is just giving you the access to games on Xbox Consoles without Online access requirements to play. As I said, Ultimate combines Game Pass Core, Console, PC & Cloud and adds EA Access and some other 'perks' too into one 'complete' package. Many of the games these days require 'online' to get the 'most' out of, or even in some cases, won't be playable without Online access at all. Without 'online' access, you are limiting which games and/or content you can play as a LOT of games these days have 'online' requirements - not just for co-op or multi-player modes these days!

If you wanted to play Halo, Forza, Gears, CoD, ESO, F76, Sea of Thieves, State of Decay etc with 'friends', its great to have Game Pass Ultimate for example as you can just jump in to play with friends, even if its not a game you'd 'buy'. Even if you don't play and would never buy CoD at all for example, you can play 'Zombies' with your Friends at no 'extra' cost. It makes Social gaming 'easier' if everyone can all play together, not just those who had £70 to buy the game...

At the end of the day, the 'Console' tier exists for those that don't want/need to pay for online access. It maybe easier to add/cancel Game Pass Core and/or Game Pass Console depending on whether you are playing online and/or accessing GP games that month. Playing just a SP on GP, cancel Core to save a bit, want to play online add core for a month, no games on GP but you want to play an online game you own, cancel GP, keep Core - its maybe more flexible for your situation...

Is one of those 'activities' to go onto other gaming forums to post about xbox and game pass by any chance? 🤣

Arhh an Xbox ambassador, that explains everything.
Imo the Xbox ambassador programme is indicative of everything that is wrong at Xbox, going out championing and not pointing at the failing aspects will ensure that the failures continue and actually accelerate as the management at Xbox will believe that they are doing a stellar job.
Plus we have to put up with all the guff.