Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

Unfortunately I found Shield pretty boring, I got to the fourth gym and stopped playing. Very run of the mill RPG at the end of the day. If you enjoyed the main game and don’t care about the dex cutting nonsense it looks like a nice expansion.

My expectations for the Pokemon Direct were low. Thankfully it was better than I thought it would be.

DLC expansions are so much better than the previous formula of releasing third/fourth versions with minor changes and a few new monsters. £27 does seem steep though, especially since some bits of the expansions feel like they should have been in the base games (the base games were more expensive than past games, and I didn't think they were as good as the older games). Price also seems high since it involves paying for both expansions and then waiting for the second one to be available. And to add to that, counting the Pokemon Sword expansions pass and the Pokemon Shield expansion pass as separate things and then wanting people who own both games to pay twice to unlock the expansions on both seems rather shady. Then there's also the as of yet unknown cost of Pokemon Home, which presumably needs paying alongside the Pokemon Bank subscription in order to transfer past pokemon (if they're allowed) into the expansions.

On a positive note, the expansions could potentially be fixing quite a few issues I had with Pokemon Shield:

• Hop: Isle of Armor is getting a new rival depending on whether you have Sword or Shield. Both rivals have fantastic designs, and it's pretty much impossible for any new rival to be more annoying than Hop.
• Lack of exploration: They seem to be focussing more on bigger areas, with hopefully more to explore. The Crown Tundra does have a theme of exploration as well. They mentioned being able to explore deep into pokemon dens, so presumably means more dungeons. It's hard to tell at this stage whether exploration will be great or not, but so far it sounds like a much needed improvement on the base game.
• Not being able to bring in all your past pokemon: 200 more past pokemon will be available to find in the expansions. And it's surprisingly nice to see that they're making them tradable into the base games, either through Pokemon Bank or from trading with someone who has an expansion. Disappointingly there will still be plenty of past pokemon that can't be transferred over, but at least it's an improvement.
• Story: Pokemon games aren't known for their plot, but the basic premise of being an apprentice in a dojo has a lot of potential. Also seems like they're toning down the football themes, which I wasn't keen on in the base game.

What has got me most excited though is that it's bringing back all 8 of my favourite pokemon. Pokemon Sword and Shield base games had exactly none of my favourites in it, but that trailer seeming showed them all: Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Latios, Latias, and Yveltal.

What has got me most spooked though is that the past legendaries were announced while announcing a new co-op play feature. My big question is can the legendaries be caught by a single player (similar to the raids in the base games), or will they only be obtainable when playing with others (similar to Pokemon Go)? If I can't obtain my legendary bird buddies due to my lack of friends, then this game will likely be a hard pass for me.

Aside from cost and whether raid legendaries can be caught solo, the rest of it looks very promising. Overall it seems like a big improvement. Not sure yet whether I'll want to get the Shield expansion or not.

As for Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX, the visuals were utterly gorgeous. I've not played the originals, so I'll be sure to try out the demo and see what I think about it. The only Pokemon Mystery Dungeon game I've played was Gates to Infinity, which wasn't great, but it's also seen as one of the weakest entries in the series. Red and Blue Rescue Team were supposedly much better.

@Ralizah It used to be a $45 game with a $45 sequel ($90 total). So it's still the same, but people are happy because they expected a $60 sequel. I dunno, the main games were kinda bare-bones. So this feels like cut content in a way. They're selling you the post-game as DLC. It used to be part of it.

I know little to nothing of Pokemon so happy to be discredited, but as an outsider who read a lot of the original hoo ha about dexit, it is pretty clear that it was because they wanted to sell them all back later. I get that additional games are normally released and that is also expensive, but it seems for a mainline game, the cutting was large and it relies on others to buy it back.

It is quite a clever move though in a way - the people who really care will buy the DLC and those that don't will just ignore it as they would anyway. As a non fan, I couldn't tell you if that is worthwhile so just chipping in my opinion.

@KratosMD Like you said; the games felt incomplete at launch. So to me this feels like it should've been part of the main game. Remember post-game in gen 2, 3 or 4? That's what this feel like, except it's €30, on top of an already €60 game (what used to be €45).

€30 is still quite steep considering this won't last half as long as the main story, which was already verys hort to begin with.

IMO, the extra content looks good, but I'm not a fan of the pricing, especially since the main game is already way too barebones as it is.

@KratosMD Quite possibly and I'm not in the know enough to argue. I think this is the issue with the game industry as a whole right now. This kind of behavious happens a lot in the industry, particularly fighting games, where you have to pay after launch to get content you used to get bundled in the game. It just seems that a very conscious decision was made to cut out something that a lot of people want and now, conveniently, you can get that back by spending money. These decisions are made quite far in advance.

That said, it does seem that Pokemon collecting has been an expensive hobby with all the variations and launches of games etc. so this might be better for fans.

@KratosMD Well, you see, that's where they've got you

''It's better than the (€60) alternative.''

I understand the argument, but it seems that years of third versions, or even ''sequels'' with mostly rehashed content and exclusive stuff on top of it has made us think that anything more ''generous'' is a good thing. It's like when company x announced they are going to replace loot boxes with standard micro-transactions. People are happy because ''it's better than loot boxes'', but my point is that it's still kinda scummy.

I mean, just look at what The Witcher 3 offered at launch for €60, and what its €30 expansion pass looked like. Sure, €30 is better than a theoretical €60 sequel, but it's still overpriced IMO. And it feels like it should've been part of the base game.

The Wild Area to me was kinda bland. There wasn't anything to explore really. The only two noteworthy structures are the tower, which does absolutely nothing. And a daycare. I was so happy to a building, but then it turned out to be another day care you couldn't even enter... So, the only post-game really was catching Pokemon you didn't have in your dex yet, but that existed in previous games as well, so I don't think it's really something to boast about.

I think the cost of the base game and the DLC combined does seem pricey. For something that costs a fully priced game plus £27, I'd want the complete experience to be something marvellous. But with the base game being very lacking in places (such as lack of big dungeons, very few legendaries, not many side activities etc), it's easy for me to be critical of the pricing.

It's a big improvement on the past method of releasing third/fourth versions, but that was a bad and expensive model.

There's also my big dislike of releasing two very similar games and making some things unobtainable in each without the other, but I won't get into that now.

@KratosMD, I've also noticed that, at least on NL, there's a decent segment of the readerbase that still wants 100% of a game on cart, no extra downloads required (and think companies should re-issue physical copies with DLC included on cart for those that want it, even if they have to pay a premium).

Those kinds of people are lamenting the loss of the "3rd version", as being able to have everything on cart is of greater value to them than the downsides of those releases.

Maybe those kinds of gamers left Sony & MS early last gen, but with Nintendo being a bit behind on adopting things such as DLC, there's still some left in the Nintendo community (I know a couple are saying that Switch will likely be the last console they'll collect for, as things like DLC & mandatory downloads will only become more prevalent with future hardware).

My last couple of posts feel much more negative than what I actually think, so to sum up my actual thoughts on the matter:

Pokemon does seem too costly this gen. However, what they showed of the expansions looked good. There's a lot of potential for them to be wonderful.

I think that's because Nintendo's games rarely go on sale, if ever. A complete edition that includes a €30 expansion means they have to lower the total price of the package by €30 as well if they want to sell it for €60 instead of €90 (base game + expansion).

@KratosMD I think that was only digital. BOTW is still €60, and there wasn't a sale, otherwise I would've bought it for Switch as well.

33% off on a three-year-old game can only happen in Nintendo land

At least Nintendo games hold their value because of the pricing. I could sell my launch copy of MK8D for 2/3rds of what I bought it for if I wanted.

Know what I'd get for my launch copy of Gravity Rush 2? Less than $10.

Which is why I always buy Nintendo titles I'm interested in at launch. There's literally no incentive not to do so.

@Ralizah True, but I also end up skipping a bunch of their games because of their pricing. I'll buy any game at launch if I really want it. But I ended up buying a bunch of games on PS4 wouldn't have bought at full price, but I enjoyed them for only tenner or something like that. Luigi's Mansion at €60 is just too much for me, if it was half the price, I'd give it a go. But I know that won't ever happen.

For my two penneth on the Pokémon thing, this whole situ reeks of let's cut the Pokédex so we can sell it back to people later. Two hefty-ish chunks of DLC is totally fine. It's that 200 Pokémon part of the DLC that has chapped people's asses, in my opinion. I know when I first saw it I cringed.

Sword/Shield is the first Pokémon game I haven't bought straight away, except the 3DS ones as I didn't have one. I love Pokémon games. But this whole game seems to have been a car crash from the start. I know we all like to pretend that Nintendo HQ is like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, where all the workers are just doing it all to put smiles on kids faces, but they're one of the most ruthless, money grubbing companies in gaming. This sounds totally believable to me, and while I expect to be nickel and dimed by Nintendo, there's a level of it that's step too far. This kinda feels like one of those for me.

That said, if Snivy is getting added back in I'll undoubtedly cave in and buy it. And this is how they get away with it.

Anyway, in more positive news, I finished New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe and it was fantastic. Loved it. They could keep making those things forever and I'd keep playing them. I do hope they port 3D World to Switch, too. I played that one on Wii U but I'd play it again. Totally underrated Mario.

I also got Luigi's Mansion 3 and Fire Emblem off Santa, so I might start one of those.

@johncalmc On the one hand the new areas look great and I'm looking forward to seeing what they bring to the game. Shield is a little hollow and feels rushed, but I'd be happy to buy and play that extra content in lieu of the traditional "third version". However, it really does seem as though the 200 old Pokémon were held back specifically to sell the DLC. Nintendo and TPCi know that it was one of the primary complaints about the game, so it doesn't sit quite right. The lack of the National Dex actually hasn't personally bothered me at all as I think there are plenty of varied Pokémon in the game, but Game Freak's reasons for the limited Pokédex now don't hold any weight given they have been able to magic a not-exactly-small number of Pokémon so soon after the game initially released. The fact that there are actually two season passes depending on the version of the game - and that it has been suggested there will be additional version exclusive Pokémon - is further compounding this issue.

Anyhoo congrats for completing New Super Mario Bros. U. Some of that looks really difficult! Did you do the Luigi U levels too?

@johncalmc The Pokemon are a free update; you technically don't need the expansion pass. However I don't know if that makes it any better, since 30 bucks only gets you two new areas. It's the price that bothers me more than anything else really. The concept art looks good, and it looks big, but that's true for most games, and when you play them it all feels a lot smaller and less impressive.

@mookysam Nah. I haven't totally polished it off. I'm in two minds about whether to go silly with it or not. I haven't gotten all the coins or done all of the secret levels, and I haven't finished the Luigi DLC. I'm undecided about whether to do it all or move on since my backlog is absolutely outrageous. It's not actually that tough, I don't think, mostly. Pretty standard Mario. Starts off super easy and steadily escalates but never goes too far until the secret bits after you've flattened Bowser.

Let's be clear: as @Octane said, they're not 'selling the Pokemon back to us.' We can trade for the returning ones or bring them forward from previous gens.

With that said, I don't understand the point of Dexit if they're just going to gradually expand the Pokedex again. Pick a direction and stick to it!

@Ralizah I actually enjoyed the ''limited'' selection (let's be honest, 400 is still a lot). Meta has finally changed big-time and now they're bringing the same old Garchomp and Landorus back, so we all know what the meta game will look like in a year from now...