Topic: I don't like the Switch

Upgrading from mostly playing on 3DS (though I had a 360 as well), I didn't have much of an issue with the feel of the Joy-Cons. Still, the stick drift is an indefensible flaw, and I upgraded to a 3rd party pro controller (which feels better) once my Joy-Cons developed drift.

I think the system has had pretty good ongoing exclusive support as well. I've had a good to great time with Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem Warriors, Super Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (and Torna), Smash Ultimate, Yoshi's Crafted World, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion 3, Daemon X Machina, and of course Animal Crossing: New Horizons (while admittedly pretty average, I don't regret nabbing Kirby: Star Allies, either).

Of course, I'm one of those that never had a Wii U, so titles like Hyrule Warriors, MK8D, Captain Toad, Tropical Freeze, and NSMBU were new to me, and the Link's Awakening remake was so fun that it went from a title I didn't particularly rate, to one of my favorite Zelda games.

It's also the system on which I prefer to play previous gen remasters as it's lack in power (compared to PS4) really isn't an issue. I'm talking games like Okami, Onimusha, Devil May Cry, One Piece Pirate Warriors 3, Katamari Damacy, and the old Final Fantasy titles, most of which I missed out on way back when.

@MS7000 I didn't rate BOTW, felt like the million other 3rd person action open world games to me. In BOTW defence its a great game, so many people and experts can't be wrong. But something about it pushed me away.

I'm currently running Nascar 3 on the PS4 when Ive had enough will put the switch on for a change. Will look out for the more obscure titles @Ralizah and @RR529 have mentioned.

First of all I wouldn’t buy A cross-platform game also available on PS4 on the switch. In most cases the PS4 version is better.

In terms of first party games things like Luigi‘s Mansion 3 undoubtedly benefit from the joy cons .Hoovering up by moving your right hand rather than using an analog stick just feels right. It could be done on a conventional controller but it wouldn’t be as good. Nintendo’s cartoon style games also don’t suffer from the lack of power.

As for breath of the wild I played it on Wii U so have difficulty thinking of it as a switch game. It has a steep learning curve and drops you into the open world very underpowered. But once you’ve acquired the magic from the bird people that allows you to jump very high it becomes one of the best games i’ve played. I died a huge amount in the first hour but don’t think I died after a 15 hour mark at all.

Some exclusive games certainly would benefit from the extra power at home consuls have over a hybrid. Astral chain comes to mind as something that would look better with a resolution bump. It would probably be more comfortable with a PS4 pad to. My hands are small enough that the joy cons are fine.

I don't think there really is any bad consoles out at the moment really in the current generation. I love the Switch and it certainly has breathed new life into the console market. It is its own beast and I think can't be compared to other consoles in the same way that you can compare the XB1 and PS4. I don't think they are going for the same market really.

It all depends on what you want from gaming. I mean, I know a lot of PC gamers that think I am mad for having consoles when I could game on PC and, in their mind, have a higher end machine and cheaper games.

The switch is, to me, all about lifestyle. As someone who has limited game time as I share a house with two kids and a wife, as well as being someone that travelled a lot (admittedly not now), having the ability to play relatively uncompromised games in bed and then slot it in to play on screen has been great. If, however, that isn't a consideration that means much to you then it is just about the games and hardware and you have to be really into it those titles to overcome the fact that you can get a graphically superior experience on other games.

I'm a firm believer that it is the games rather than the hardware that matters. Truth be told, if I wanted the best experience for many games, i would have a top level PC. To me it is about how I can play the game and experience it. I loved The Witcher 3 on Switch even though it was the 'inferior' version from a graphical and performance perspective because I could enjoy a huge open world game in a way that would have been harder for me sat in front of a TV.

For the record I didn’t like BOTW much for about 15-20 hours. But it becomes incredibly absorbing. If you just dip your toe in for a few hours every now and then with distractions in the background you won’t break through the surface of it.

As for the build quality, my main issue is the joycons wobble in handheld mode. Kinda sucks and makes the whole thing feel cheaper than it probably is. It doesn’t help I dropped my switch and somehow the clip that holds the left joycon in place was slightly damaged, meaning if I put a bit of pressure on the bottom of it it’ll fly off the rail, so I do have to hold it a bit gingerly now. That’s my fault of course. I could try fixing it with new joycons being the final option, if it gets really annoying.

@MS7000 Yeah, those are my biggest problems with the game as well: Lack of proper dungeons, especially the themed dungeons of past entries; little to no enemy variety, and disappointing boss fights.

There weren't even cool plant based enemies in forests, because every enemy could be found anywhere, just a different skin, which made all the environments feel the same, except for how they looked. So the only differences between the regions were mostly superficial really.

And I really missed the level design of previous games. I don't think ''open world'' equals better game. Zelda games were always open in a sense. I really hope they go back to the old style; games like Tomb Raider and God of War (2018) show that it's not outdated at all. In fact, I think it gives you a certain amount of freedom, whilst also guiding you to through interesting level design. When you can approach anything from every angle, it just doesn't work. I remember finding a shrine, only to later discover that they had actually build a really neat road to it, filled with enemies, which would've been quite challenging. But I approached it from the ''wrong'' side apparently, no that whole moment was ruined. The whole concept sounds neat on paper, but doesn't work as good in theory IMO.

I thought Breath of the Wild was great and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I do think it's overrated. It definitely benefited from being a Nintendo game which meant we all had to pretend they'd just invented open world games and was a revolution for the industry, when in reality it was actually very derivative in a lot of ways of other open world games. Also the weapon system is garbage town. But other than I really liked it and I loved those little mini-dungeons where you had to solve a daft puzzle or fight a weird boss or whatever.

Switch as a console is alright. You probably like it more or less depending on a) how much you like Nintendo and how willing you are to pretend everything they do is great, and b) whether you like handheld gaming. I don't really like handheld gaming but I am willing to forgive Nintendo for a lot of their boneheaded moves, so I'm kinda middle ground on it as a console. It's underpowered and I'd never play any game I could play on PS4 on it, but it does have some great games and the Pro Controller is radical.

I got my Switch last Xmas and i love it, been on it more or less everyday since i got and its quickly become one of my favourite consoles. Being able to play console level games on a handheld is incredible and the system has some of the better games out there. As for BotW i wasn't that fussed at first but the more i played the more i fell in love with it, have over 100 hours so far with it and its easily one of my favourite open world games and driving around on the Mastercycle the Expansion Pass gives you is insanely fun.

@Ralizah Wow, I'm really impressed you remember that bit about Hollow Knight. I still haven't played it on the PS4, though. And now that I have a Switch of my own (no longer need to borrow), I might actually try it again on there. Because I might otherwise never really finish that game.

I'm slowly becoming a Switch convert, I hate to admit it! But it's really a comfortable console when you're sharing your appartment with someone. It made me rediscover gaming a bit in recent times, that's always a good thing.

@johncalmc Aside from the Pro controller (which I think is a poor man's [s]Splatoon[/s] Xbox controller), I agree with your post.

I have tried Breath of the Wild quite a few times, but I just can't find anything in which it is more innovative than other open world games I played. Yes, you can climb on anything, but to me that's not really that special, as GTA5 grants me the ability to fly on top of every skycraper, and then parachute from it. And the koro seeds (or whatever they are), are just a bit of a cheap inclusion to me to make it feel 'worthwhile', while actually in games like GTA5 reaching the top of a skyscraper was already a reward in itself for instance.

That being said, I have recently bought a Switch and am willing to give the game yet another try (previously played it on Wii U), as I've been a longtime fan of the Zelda series and just really want to like this one more.

@Octane I remember something similar to what you described where I got around the enemies without realising it. I think the developers intended for you to be able to do that, but at the same time, it feels like wasted effort designing something that can be easily be ignored. The music in the game irked me as well. There were some good track, but my problem is too much ambience. The only really memorable track for me was Hyrule Castle, which was amazing, and it was also the only dungeon-style area I liked since there were some rewards for exploring such as the Hylian shield, but even then, I remember there being gatehouses with lynels which you could completely bypass (and in fact I did).

I am feeling like I am ripping into it too much, which is a shame because there are also good aspects that I liked, such as the exploration and core mechanics of the game. You can find some creative ways to defeat enemies with magnesis and stasis, not to mention one thing I liked was randomly stumbling across a boss monster in the world (although the reward for beating said bosses were rarely worth the effort). Being able to glide over the world is also a treat, and I really loved the concept of human enemies in the shape of the Yiga clan, and the concept of the Yiga clan was great as it made sense that the Sheikah wouln't be the only clan to exist (even if the Yiga were a splinter group). I don't hate the game, it is just that quite a lot of what makes Zelda, Zelda, has been stripped away. In their quest to redefine conventions, they completely threw out most of what made Zelda enjoyable for me.

@Kidfried I would definitely give BOTW another go. It's definitely weird for a Zelda game and there's a bunch of things I don't like about it, but there's also so much to enjoy. It's an ace game to just ride about on a horse and see what you can find.

Any criticism against Joy-cons' tendence to drift is fair game.
Anything else isn't, though. The Nintendo Switch singlehandedly took the vague, shamelessly vain concept of "Nintendo Difference" and actually took it by heart.
It's an underpowered console, sure, but also one that can boast the unrivaled strength of Nintendo's portable market and use it to actually sell a - well - an actual underpowered Nintendo home system.
Nintendo's been kind of killing it this generation, and if all it took was the Wii U to fail, then more power to the Big N.
Too bad the Joy-con Drift keeps staining the system's reputation, especially given the controllers are otherwise conceptually perfect - simple controllers for multiplayer, that can be combined into one single fancy controller for more complicated games.
All of my yes.

@KratosMD For me, Hollow Knight was just too long. I had a lot of fun for 20 hours but burnt out on it. I'd have probably been more interested with greater weapon variety I guess.

Well, since everyone is giving their opinion on Zelda, I guess I should too.

The thing I appreciate about the game is how it recontextualizes open world game design. Among other things:

• It's the only open world game I've played where the main narrative is structured around the idea of an open-ended, exploratory game, and I appreciate how it functions as a sort of tour guide of Hyrule. I've never seen a game offer the main story up as an optional reward for engaging with the game before, but it addresses the irritation I've always felt with open world games, where it feels like there are the canon main story bits, and then a bunch of dicking around that conflicts with that.
• To elaborate: the 'simple' story also works well with the structure of the game. You have one goal: to exterminate Ganon. That's it. And almost everything you can do in the game contributes to that goal by making you stronger in some way. Since the entire point of the game (both narratively and gameplay-wise) is to become more powerful in order to strike down the enemy who has ruined Hyrule, this means the game is completely lacking in the sort of ludonarrative dissonance that plagues other open world titles. The story IS your adventure, and every adventure is unique. It's a completely different vibe from The Witcher, Skyrim, and other more traditional open world games.
• To continue on that theme, the game features a highly advanced mix of physics and gameplay systems that contribute to make the world itself feel like a living place. TW3/Skyrim/AC/HZD/etc. feature big, open spaces you run through to get to the story bits. They're largely linear experiences at their core that are bloated with tons of side-content and make you walk across empty expanses everywhere in order to feel like you're going on a journey or exploring. The difference with BotW, the reason it feels so alive, is this: EVERYTHING is interactive. You need to wear appropriate clothing to survive. You can use your environment to defeat large groups of enemies. You can solve puzzles or just about any situation by using your own intelligence and initiative, even if it's not the way the designers might have gone about it. Not only does the game feature a million different paths around Hyrule, but it trusts the player to find the best solution to almost any problem. I've never seen such a level of respect for the player before. It's like the polar opposite of when I'm playing a Naughty Dog game, where the game will funnel you through a glitzy series of scripted events, but I'm largely numb and detached as the controller shakes and Nathan Drake/Joel/whoever does crazy stuff with little to no input from me. A lot of games are like that, honestly. I'm never detached from BotW. The game trusts you to play it in a way that works for you.
• The simple act of moving from A to B in BotW is SO satisfying, and that's not usual for a Zelda game. Games in this series tend to restrict everything by locking down your movement so that you can't even climb a simple cliff without finding some tool in the bottom of a dungeon. I get that it organically structures a largely open environment into a linear experience, but it also leads to a lot of lost time and, frankly, just doesn't feel as fun to play. BotW wants the player to enjoy their exploration of Hyrule. More importantly, though, the fun navigational methods have an important gameplay purpose: they enable the player to follow their curiosity. Being able to climb or glide almost anywhere means the player is free to engage with the world as much as their heart desires, instead of being railroaded onto a path of scripted encounters that is the same for everyone.
• This has been mentioned before, but I appreciate how the game de-emphasizes maps, icons, and guided waypoints, and the sort of mindless exploration they encourage, in favor of exploration guided by constant engagement with the world around you. I've never played an open world game where I spent so much time studying the lay of the land and trying to figure out the best method of getting from Point A to Point B. In addition, there is almost always something on the horizon drawing you to it, silently helping to guide the player. It's very cool.
• I appreciate how there are puzzles EVERYWHERE in this game, which rewards the vigilant and makes you subconsciously query everything you see. Additionally, I like how the shrines feature physics-based puzzles, which is something new to the series. And, really, outside of Portal, how many games have physics puzzles? Not many. I hope Nintendo continues building on this new approach.
• The Divine Beasts... OK. They could be better. But they're promising. I really, really like the idea of dungeons where the entire thing is one big puzzle that you're trying to solve. I was never a fan of Zelda's traditional dungeon design, which often feels like a bunch of random challenges and puzzles thrown together in order to pad out a section of the game that, at bottom, doesn't really have much to it. Maybe give them a fire theme or something, and add in a boss that's nothing once you figure out his gimmick, and you're good to go. Ugh.
• On the topic of bosses... again, execution could be better, but I like the idea, which, I think, was to add more Souls-like enemies in terms of challenging the player. And this is one of the few issues caused by the open design: because the developers wouldn't know how far a player has come by the time they get to a boss, they didn't know how tough to make them. I think, in future games, they either need to do away with bosses entirely (the large enemies you find throughout Hyrule feel more like proper bosses than any of the Ganon clones, lol) or structure bosses so that you only encounter them after doing a certain number of things, so that the developers can balance the fights properly.
• The OST gets a bad rap, and I won't hear of it. It has quite a bit of non-ambient music, and one of the largest soundtracks overall in the series. But the developers clearly wanted the player to feel a sense of calm and peace when exploring the lands, so they decided to go with gentle piano riffs when nothing in particular is happening. There's no reason for the soundtrack to kick off when you're just foraging for food or poking around to indulge your curiosity. In terms of how it changes in response to context, and in terms of the overall quality of the compositions, I'd say BotW easily has the best soundtrack in the series.

I think a lot of people talk about not liking the plot in this game when what they're actually talking about is the method of storytelling. Because, let me be frank: Zelda games don't tell good stories. The "stories" in these games are just there to structure a sequence of setpieces, dungeons, and boss fights into a coherent whole. It's almost always very rote and gamey: "Find the [insert McGuffins] to save the world/stop [insert big bad guy]." Nintendo made the (imo) wise choice to move away from this sort of very archaic design and instead build an experience designed to make open exploration as fun as possible.

To be clear: I get why some people don't like it. And the game definitely isn't perfect. As a very 'new' experience, it's rough in a lot of ways. It's building the foundations of a new sort of open world game, and a lot of little issues pop up when you do that. Personally, I'd like to see them introduce a recipe book, a fishing rod (and fishing system in general), and get rid of the Ubisoft towers in the sequel. Also, increase the enemy variety and change up the bosses. I don't want the breakable weapons to go, though. I think that aspect of the game is well-balanced, and I especially appreciate them more after playing open world games with TONS of lootable weapons that clog up your inventory, but which you find it hard to part with.

But it's a fresh, wonderfully absorbing experience, which is why it's still my favorite big game this gen.

@Kidfried Yeah, a lot of people who say they don't care about portability end up really liking being able to play it anywhere. I think people think of portability as an "away from the house" sort of thing. Really, the system is just designed to work around your schedule, and I appreciate that versatility, since I do sometimes want to play on the TV as well.

@Ralizah Yea, and you also discover cool ways in how to use the Switch. For instance, I work in programming, so sometimes I'm just waiting on a build of a software to complete or something. I have my Switch on the keyboard of my laptop (I use an external keyboard to actually type), so whenever I have to wait for some piece of software to run, I can just look down from my screen and have a quick try at a level in Cuphead within seconds.

Another thing: the last two weeks I was really sick, and whatever position I lay in in bed to deal with the pain, I could always find a way to play Pokemon. That's just nice stuff.

@Kidfried Lol, I was doing the same with Hollow Knight when Uni was still on. They made us use their API since we were using SQL and mustache to pull info from their server. Ok, but did it really have to take about 5 minutes to build, literally every single time?

@Arugula I've not finished it either and I love it. Kind of like having a chunk left to play one day if I ever get round to it!

I’ve had a bit of a love-hate relationship with the Switch.

I fell into the hype & bought it for BOTW & SMO. Absolutely hated BOTW & felt duped. Mario was great fun, but I don’t rate it as highly as the critics.
I’ve gone back & beaten BOTW since & thought it was ok in the end.

Despite owning pretty much all the Nintendo exclusive titles & finishing them (except for Tropical Freeze), I’ve yet to play something that blew me away. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 came closest, but I was put off by the designs & Field skills.
Now I know that game will be Bayonetta 3, but who knows when that’s out. Also looking forward to the rumoured Mario64 Remake as well as the Galaxy games, so it’s not all bad.

I do weirdly dislike the Switch, simply because I associate it with the fact that I absolutely hate the direction Pokemon has gone.

I’m sure I go back to loving it when Bayo3 is out.

It feels like you're killing my babies.

I think the Switch is alright, but I'm not blown away by it or anything. Partly that might be because I play on the TV most of the time, so don't get much value from the portability aspect. So it's easy for me to treat it as a home console, and compare it unfavourably to other consoles (possibly a bit unfairly).

I've got it mainly for the big exclusives that can't be played anywhere else.

Edit: (and haven't played Zelda Breath of the Wild yet, so can't really comment on whether that's any good or not)