Topic: The TV Show Thread

@zupertramp Yeah maybe the film grain is it. I figured it was the 4K, but maybe we could still have 4K if there was more film grain.

And I’m actually coming around on Ramsey, to be honest. I agree on Bill and Joel, but Ramsey has given me the essence of Ellie, so far I think. The real challenging parts of her performance haven’t started yet though. So far it’s just the annoying mysterious teenager role. The hard part will be selling her complex relationship with Joel, which definitely isn’t there yet but isn’t really supposed to be at this stage of the story. And Part 2 of course — that’s where she’ll really have to show her acting chops.

@Th3solution yeah thinking ahead I'm having trouble buying her and more importantly her complex relationship with Joel as you mention. Like someone else said she's kinda okay with just the one liners but the more she talks the less she's believably Ellie imo. And then yeah, once we get into part 2 territory I suspect the imitation will wear really thin. But I mean, that's me and you wouldn't be the first I've heard of digging Ramsey's performance thus far.

Another thing that is really grating for me, and this has nothing to do with the actress, but the decision to really drive home the significance of her knife. Like it's approaching Han Solo dice levels at this point. So my hats off to them for killing what could have just been an Easter egg style nod by turning it into some unnecessary object for Joel and Ellie to bond over.

Also don't think I made it clear enough in all my complaining that I did enjoy the third episode. Offerman just straight up works better as this particular Bill. And while I lament that some things now didn't happen with this Bill, I appreciated this more fleshed out take on things.

I just got around to watch the first episode of the Last of Us adaptation myself. Feel like I have deffo been hurt by all the hyperbole surrounding this, I thought this opening episode was fine but people online made it sound like it would be some kind of life altering experience.

The episode deviated just enough to justify its existence for me. My biggest confusion about this adaptation was like why it even existed if it was just going to be a beat for beat recreation of the game. Like sure, people who refuse to play videogames for whatever reason may get to experience this story that they wouldn't have otherwise, but for basically anyone else a retread would have seemed absolutely pointless to me given the quality of the game itself. But this finds a good middle ground I think, in that it doesn't deviate so far it'll drive the purists mad, but isn't just a retread which just always end up feeling like cheap fan film to me when they do that.

I feel like they did a good job here adding extra texture and dimension to everything, I guess in a way you are more limited with a game as you are always having to push towards the next gameplay segment (unless you are like a Yakuza game or a Kojima game I guess), but here they can spend as much time on a narrative beat as they want, within reason. And aren't forced to break the immersion with a bunch of magically placed knee hill walls right as the shooting starts, as Ellie starts walking in front of the enemies seemingly completely invisible to them.

Time will tell on these things, though. I have no idea if that might change in the coming episodes, this is all just based on the first episode. You could argue narrative is a little on the light side in the game, more focused on characters and the kind of environmental storytelling I feel only really works in games. And just generally sometimes a story already gives you exactly as much as you need, and trying to expand on those beats only robs those beats of their impact in the end. But maybe by the end I’ll have much greater appreciation for the Last of Us, a franchise I think I admire more than I necessarily like. I'm certainly glad I don't need to get Joel through any crappy stealth sections while watching this, that is for sure.

@Pizzamorg Interesting thoughts and many which I agree with.

As I was reading your comment I actually thought about all game sales that are happening now as the HBO crowd suddenly has interest to play the game and so many people will end up playing the game after watching the show, which is the complete opposite for all of us. I really wonder what the reaction, expectations, and experience will be like for those people. I’d be very interested to see their review of the game after just knowing the show. I imagine a lot of “This isn’t the way it happened, where’s all the missing back story! That’s not the way Ellie acts! Why is there so much sneaking around and shooting interrupting the story!” Etc, etc. 😂

Yeah it's funny because id argue knowledge of the games enhanced the experience, at least in that first ep, as we could see where the show zagged and zigged, what was changed or fleshed out and remark on those things. but I'm not convinced it'll work in the other direction. It takes about half of the first episode to get us basically to where Last of Us starts, for example. We all still think that opening is incredibly effective, even the old version with the PS4 art style (which I actually prefer but I assume that's a controversial topic for another time), but will someone from the TV show wonder where the rest of it is? I wonder if that'll be alienating more than anything else.

I'd also argue, maybe controversial, but the worst part of the Last of Us was playing it lol I suffered through so many boring ladder puzzles and infuriating stealth sections because I wanted to experience the next environment or development in Joel and Ellie's story. But now you don't have to do that any more, because this TV show exists.

@Pizzamorg Puzzles in games is something people will probably be divided on. I’m
playing The Pathless and it’s got this wonderful free roaming world with super smooth kinetic traversal with awesome sense of speed, a little bit like Spider-Man. But interspersed are puzzles of varying degrees of difficulty that you have to do to progress. I quite like them. And the second boss was a bit of a puzzle boss too.
And I did think to myself as I really struggled with a tough puzzle last night and almost looked it up online, “These puzzles are ruining this great experience.” But then when I figured it out it was really satisfying.

In the case of TLoU, I don’t think the puzzles were particularly difficult, as I recall. So it may be why you disliked them since there wasn’t that “Aha!” moment of satisfaction by pulling a ladder or board to the required place.
The second game did away with a lot of that, so your complaint was likely expressed by many. And despite liking the first game better, I do think the gameplay for the second game is better.

Regardless, I definitely think some of the TV show watchers are in for a rude awakening when they see how lean the story is in the game, comparatively speaking, and replaced with an escort mission with a bunch of stealth, exploration, and resource management.

Incidentally, while I’m watching the show I find myself looking around on the set as Joel and Ellie mill about, hoping I’ll be the first to find a comic or some bandages. A small part coming up that you haven’t seen yet in the show is an homage to the exploratory raiding of cabinets and shelves that you do in the game, but it’s brief compared to the constant searching you do in the game. 😅

@LN78 Yeah, there is a modicum of narrative purpose so the two can bond and chat and create a sense of cooperation. I didn’t mind them personally. A lot of games have one party member push a crate or pull a lever for another party member. At least in TLoU there’s some occasional witty banter.

I actually think the second episode of the Last of Us was even better than the first. Feels unusual in a TV show to introduce and payoff a punch of stuff in the same episode, but I appreciated it. I wish more TV shows did this, for the longest time the pacing of TV was what killed my interest.

I also liked how they tried stealth, they ***** it up and it descended into total chaos from there. They just like me fr fr. Only here there are no insta death fail states you have to restart, and as such I am sorta coming round to this whole thing.

Going in I was like ‘why does this exist’ - but I guess this is why. Every fresh playthrough I dread sequences like this, and not for the reasons intended, and here I got to just enjoy a cool episode of TV, rather than seethe with frustration at a game for an hour being stuck in the same place.

Also, about the whole ladder thing above. I ain't suggesting ladder puzzles are inherently good or bad, really. I just think if you had never played a videogame before, and then the Last of Us was your first game, I think you'd wonder why there are so many sequences of moving boxes, platforms and ladders and wonder if that is normal in modern videogames.

Oh wow, I genuinely had no idea about that. I might have to replay Part 1 when the show is over then, I kinda wanted to, but the price of entry is massive on PS5 (less so on PC which I think comes out in March?), but I was also kinda dreading some parts, but this is a game changer literally.

Wow episode three of the Last of Us was magical. The world has changed more in ten years than I think I really appreciated. What was once implied and danced around in the game, now just gets to become text here in the TV show. Awesome stuff.

@LN78 "Not to state the obvious but I don't think that particular actor would be very suitable these days."

Agreed, way too old to play a believable teenager these days.

@Kidfried "You know he's called Elliot Page."

Yeah now but not at the time of the lawsuit. I doubt the lawsuit would have happened if that was the case back then.

"Ramsey's performance specifically was praised by The Washington Post, Guardian and many other outlets actually."

That may be true but The Guardian also praised She-Hulk so....

That alone would make me question my career choice if I was Bella Ramsey.

It is difficult for me to get a read from Ramsey just in these first three episodes. At this point in the story with Ellie having her full guard up, she is kind of a massive ***** (justifiable or not) and the inherent unlikability of the character at this stage of the story makes it difficult for me to really objectively gauge Ramsey's performance.

That being said, I think episode three had two of Ramsey's best moments so far, one being that haunting sequence with the trapped infected she finds in the basement and then the 'warming up' sequence right at the end in the car, it at least shows she has great chemistry with Pascal.

@LN78 "PS "The Guardian" is not a measured and rational source. They gave "Velma" a positive review."

This guy gets it!

@LN78 Indeed, hard to think Mindy Kaling who wrote it had input into the US Office which is one of my favourites.

Wait, did someone suggest Elliott Page for the role? I suppose that was the deleted comment, yeah? Little old I think.

I don't know what it is about Bella Ramsey's performance so far but everything has just felt really forced. It's something where I have trouble really pinning down what's wrong, I just know something feels off. Had a similar opinion of Rami Malek in Little Things, for example, which I just watched recently. Performance was just off and I had trouble buying him for the part.

Oh well.

Edit: also feel the need to register my dislike of The Guardian lol. Which is funny because I remember them being good at one point but like, idk what happened. Same with New York Times and Washington Post. Though the latter two haven't gone quite off the rails in the same way as The Guardian. Honestly I'm more of a The Atlantic type guy these days.

Sorry for going so off topic by the way. Just bored.

Personally, I think the off thing just comes from cross media translations. It takes a lot to make something not just feel like cosplay to me, and even after three episodes I'm still seeing Pascal, Ramsey etc rather than being convinced I am seeing Joel and Ellie et al.

@Pizzamorg it really could be this. And so I'm sticking with the show in spite of my hang ups in hopes that it all gets ironed out by the end.

@zupertramp "did someone suggest Elliott Page for the role?"

It was me, well sort of, but I suggested Ellen Page and not Elliott Page who they are now because back in the day Ellen Page accused Naughty Dog of ripping off "her" likeness (I thought she sued but didn't as far as I can tell). It would be quite unusual if Elliot Page accused Naughty Dog of ripping off "his" likeness bearing in mind Ellie is a girl.

So I'll rephrase it in a more acceptable format for people who can't accept that transgender people were born as another sex and usually went under a different name prior to transition.

Before Elliot Page became Elliot Page they were known as Ellen Page. Ellen was a female who accused Naughty Dog of stealing her likeness for a female character they created called Ellie. Whether this is true or not I don't know but there was I think a resemblance. So when Elliot Page was Ellen Page they would have made a good actress to portray Ellie. Now because they are Elliot Page, they would not make a good fit for Ellie.

I wonder if this will be enough of an explanation as to why I heretically referred to Elliott as Ellen because in context it makes sense.