Forums

Topic: The TV Show Thread

Posts 1,261 to 1,280 of 1,793

KALofKRYPTON

Well. Chibs talked Doctor Who up a touch too much didn't he? 😂

I'd shared my theory about how how tonight's episode may play out to my partner (not exactly a Whovian) last week - she was quite quick to say that it really wouldn't be that complicated, because Chibnall just isn't that capable.

And how correct she was.
An alright episode for most part with a couple of low points.
By the time of the 'big reveal', the audience is already there and it was unsurprisingly uninspiring. There was no paradigm shattering revelation, just a watered down version of most fan theories out there. Thankfully its nothing that seems particularly franchise breaking either; on the contrary actually.

Given the cliffhanger though, they could really do without another year long production gap and loss of momentum.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
Special shout out for you calling The Master 'mid-tier'!
Life on the edge! 😂

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

belmont

You may not believe I wasted so much time on this but after Arrow ended I rewatched ... all of it.
I don't know really why I like this series so much.

belmont

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Why, thank you! But it's true, though. He's no Dalek, nor Cyberman. He's not even a Weeping Angel. He's just, kinda... there, at least until Missy came in and gave the character some energy, an overdose of charisma and a genuinely lethal edge.

@belmont It's never a waste of time if you're having fun! A couple shows have made me do the same over the years, so just kick back and enjoy, I say!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
The Master though. One of the few recurring Who villains who regularly actually does, or comes close to besting the Doctor. In fact, more often than not, classic Who included, The Doctor tends to need others to save him/her or defeat The Master.

The Master showing up always meant that something big was going to go down, The Doctor's intellectual equal and eventual frenemy.

While his story went right off the rails, John Simm's Harry Saxon run was some of the best new Who going.
Missy was great though - specifically, great for 12.

The Weeping Angels only count for their first appearance, they were cumulatively spoiled with each successive appearance!

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

crimsontadpoles

@KALofKRYPTON I've not been keen on this season as a whole, but I did really enjoy the finale today. Great to see the Doctor in a dangerous situation up against some of her greatest enemies.

It probably helps that I'm terrible at guessing what's going to happen. I guessed they were going to defeat the enemy by making the Lone Cyberman remember his humanity, with it then aiding the Doctor and saving the day in a very tired and cliché manner (I thought the flashbacks in the previous episode were going to be about him). So I'm glad to be proven wrong here.

As for the "big reveal", I should have seen it coming, but like I say I'm bad at predicting these kinds of things.

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON You're spot on about Missy being right for Capaldi's Doctor. I don't think she'd ever work opposite anybody else and, as awesome as she's been thusfar (as I've yet to finish the Blu-Rays I got) I kinda hope she never turns up to antagonise another Doctor down the line.

But I never really "got" any other Master. I'm not really one to rate threat, as much as I rate villains having a memorable impact. Daleks, Cybermen, Angels and many others have storylines and appearances which strike at the core and have become engrained in popular culture for good reason. They have curious hooks, or USPs that terrify the imagination. Thankfully I bailed on Matt Smith's Doctor so never saw the Angels become overused, as I've heard they did, but their concept is an all-time classic. Up against a dishevelled John Simm running about in a hoodie, fiddling with the mobile phone network, they're absolutely top shelf villains.

I do understand why people like the Master so much (because those qualities you mention were magnified by Missy and helped make Capaldi's clashes with her so memorable) but just not in the same quantities, I guess. There's also the actor issue; if you're a humanoid with a human face, you're defined by casting, whereas the Daleks are always menacing no matter who's driving the oversized pepper pot around the set. Some of the Master's actors just haven't grabbed me.

But it's awesome if they have you, and others. It's a cool name-drop for a cliffhanger, at any rate, and carries a decent legacy. I guess, whenever anybody mentions the show, I just think of so many other names, episodes and individual scenes before I reach his and / or hers.

And after watching a few more episodes yesterday, I reckon "Heaven Sent" will forever be first. It's where I left the show before, and... well, it's perfect. Just perfect.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

crimsontadpoles

@RogerRoger Heaven Sent is one of my favourites as well. Such a great episode, and Capaldi does an excellent performance as The Doctor.

Capaldi is also one of my favourite doctors as well. It's been too long since I've seen David Tennant's Doctor, so I can't say for sure which one I prefer, but it's probably Capaldi. Like you say Capaldi's episodes were complex and interesting, and he does a a great job as the lead role.

I'm surprised that you're not so keen on The Master, but that's fine, it would be boring if everyone liked the same things. The Master/Missy is my favourite of the Doctor's enemies. He's nearly as intelligent as The Doctor, and he's a serious threat. There's usually something horrifically bad unfolding when his plans come into action, and he often gets very close to succeeding as well.

Edited on by crimsontadpoles

nessisonett

@RogerRoger @crimsontadpoles Heaven Sent is one of the few episodes of Doctor Who in the last decade that I could say with certainty that it stands alone as a fantastic episode of TV. It’s well written, acted brilliantly and is hugely gripping. It’s a shame his run was quite spotty, its highs were really high.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

KALofKRYPTON

@crimsontadpoles
It was alright wasn't it.
Still has a few 13 problems though.
Not really sure whether the whole thing was meant to feel insideous or not. The villains certainly, but The Master negating the Lone Cyberman really ruined that.
And what should have been the most significant villains 13 has ever faced were dealt with in true 13 fashion within a few seconds .

@RogerRoger Yeah, hoodie Simm was crap, the tapping stuff was crap too 😂

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

JohnnyShoulder

Looking forward to Season 3 of Castlevania this week. Also may give Season 2 of Altered Carbon a bash, as I enjoyed the first season although I found you really needed to pay close attention.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

RogerRoger

@crimsontadpoles Yeah, if you'd asked me before Capaldi, I'd have said Tennant but hands down now, it's gotta be Capaldi every time. Tennant had moments where he wore a little thin. Capaldi is consistently brilliant and captivating, regardless of overall episode quality.

And thanks; glad you and @nessisonett agree with me about "Heaven Sent" being a true classic and all-time great. Even though I was remembering bits from before as I watched, I was still gripped.

As I said above, I get why everybody loves the Master / Missy so much. I just don't really respond as well to the elements that make his / her character so successful, not until Michelle Gomez was in the role and I finally "got" her (probably because of the unique combination of her portrayal opposite Capaldi, and how they worked so wonderfully together). And that's cool, because they're the only Blu-Rays I own, so I'm happy to live in my little bubble over here! Give it a couple weeks and I'll be all over Disney+ anyway.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

Finally finished all of Capaldi's episodes. Cried. Going to miss him, and not going to continue watching the Jodie Whittaker stuff as right now, I'd just hate her for not being Capaldi, and that isn't fair.

@KALofKRYPTON @crimsontadpoles I take back what I said about the Master, by the way. I get it now.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger I'm not a 'crier' for the most part. If Who was ever to bring me close, it's that last interaction with Missy. The dialogue on 12's part isn't even that good - but Capaldi and Gomez just sell such genuine emotion, that even if you weren't a fan of 12 or his run - that would move you.

Yeah. The Master. What a b***ard!

Good plan on not jumping straight in to 13. The drop in everything but budget would be jarring.

Edited on by KALofKRYPTON

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Completely agreed. And it was the contrasting of Missy with Simm's Master, and how it explored the many sides of such a complex personality all at once, which was the key. Deconstructing her over the course of the season, and having her turn good in her final moment, only to be shot in the back by her darker side, was beautiful. My only complaint is that the editing could've been a tad smoother, showing her entire final moments at once, rather than intercutting them with the Doctor's preparation for battle. Would've had a bit more of a punch, I think, although I get the duality.

It's made me order a raft of associated tat. I need my shelves to be bigger on the inside.

Couldn't sleep and went on YouTube last night, and it randomly suggested a scene from a Jodie Whittaker episode where a Dalek goes on a rampage. I watched it out of curiosity and was incredibly impressed with the effects and production values, but then she showed up and I just went "Nope, not yet."

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Hahaha - I have very little Who tat. Though I have a very good recreation of Baker's 'first' style scarf - which is plenty!

That episode is a pretty good example of the that season as a whole. At the very best, you might come away from it thinking along the lines of 'that should have been better than it actually felt'.

I like JW, she's a good actor, I don't care that 13 is a woman - but she's not that great at being The Doctor. Whether it's the direction coupled with the scripts, I don't know. But it's usually pretty 'off' feeling, in a way I can't really say new Who has felt before.

There are decent episodes. But not many.

There are good ideas. But rarely realised very well.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON I don't usually go for props (they're the first dangerous step towards cosplay; I don't say that in judgement of those who enjoy cosplay, but rather in fear of the knowledge that it wouldn't take much for me to become one of them) but I've ordered Capaldi's second sonic screwdriver. The rest is standard fare (soundtracks, figures, LEGO, some Funko Pops now that I like them) but I couldn't resist having one to occasionally pick up and wave erratically about my head. At least your scarf has a practical function!

Despite the strength of "Heaven Sent" and "Hell Bent" as a triumphant payoff to many ongoing arcs, I think Capaldi's final season will be my favourite when I invariably rewatch it down the line. Figuring it out fresh in the moment gives you a lot to consider, but knowing what's to come and what they're striving for will make it more satisfying to see, I reckon. Part of me thinks production was rushed because, as I understand it, Capaldi had announced his departure before the season aired, and Whittaker was announced midway through it. The BBC wanted to capitalise on the "She's a woman now!" buzz (for better or worse) but giving things a little longer in the oven might've made them even better than "Heaven Sent", because the concepts and performances behind it are there.

No problem with a female Doctor here, either. The show's been going that way since 2005 anyway, it's an incredibly liberal production, and there was plenty of groundwork done during Capaldi's tenure for it to feel natural. I've never seen Whittaker in anything before, but in the brief clips I've seen of her Doctor, she lacks the energy of the character. There's less bounding around, less quirks and facial ticks and dramatic flair to the whole thing. Capaldi was a flamboyant alien; Whittaker comes across as positively ordinary in comparison. Charming and capable, I'm sure, but I don't buy that she's an ancient alien.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
I suppose a key thing is that, for all of the previous Doctors grandiose posturing, there was a usually a purposeful and and least competently directed delivery. Even every time the Doctor waxed lyrical on the merits or folly of the human race or the villainous machinations of whoever was about that week - it was part of what was going on.

With 13, JW usually seems like she's paused to give a lecture - no matter the situation. And make no mistake, the lecture is aimed at you, the viewer.

I saw a thing Peter Weller did once about direction and being directed on film; his point was about people being filmed in a moving car, with one actor being the driver. Weller was critical of the vast majority of classic cinema and shows that really fail to portray the supposed driver actually driving. The focus being usually on dialogue of the scene rather the fact that these are supposed to be people travelling somewhere.
He went on to talk about why someone is in any specific place in any specific scene; 'why is the character in that space? What are they doing there? Would they be in that space if not for this being a scene designed to deliver dialogue?' - I think he gave some examples, but it reminds me of 13's run quite a bit. There's a lot of movement through locations and scenes that seems entirely contrived and at odds with how people (The Doctor included) can reasonably be expected to behave. Couple that with the penchant for launching moral tirades towards the audience, it becomes off-putting.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON I think the show's going to be struggling to best the Doctor's speech about war from the end of "The Zygon Inversion" for a long while yet. Maybe it never will.

That's always been the beauty of the Doctor; they can preach without being preachy. They can pontificate without pretension. It takes tremendous skill and self-awareness to do that. I'm sorry to hear Whittaker's tenure has lost that because, you're right, that'd just get annoying very quickly.

As somebody who's forever noticing when actors "driving" cars take their eyes off the road (seriously, highways across the land should be littered with actors' corpses by now) that's quite a telling example to cite. I know exactly what you mean, in the broader sense. There are numerous shows which lose that awareness and it breaks your immersion, which then likely heightens your feeling of being targeted by the speeches. It's difficult, though, because as a writer I know how easy it is to know where you want everybody to end up, and reverse-engineering those outcomes can sometimes inadvertently lead to, as you say, an entirely contrived and artificial journey to get there. It's an occasionally-unavoidable pitfall I try to keep in mind and limit all the time.

But if I were writing for a major global flagship brand like Doctor Who, I'd be even more conscious of it. At least these messages are pleasing somebody somewhere, I suppose. A critic, probably.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
As an aside, I've decided to make good effort at going the the 'Eighth Doctor Adventure books'. I've read a couple before, but I might try and do all 77(!).
Starting off with 'The Eight Doctors' - already noticed something that became canon through error and something that I fully expect to be expanded on in 13's next season

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Top

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic