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Topic: The TV Show Thread

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KALofKRYPTON

@Th3solution @LN78
Absolutely loved the first season of The Expanse. Best 'proper' sci-fi show since Babylon 5 for my money.

Never got around to watching the rest. I should really.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 It;s an easy thing to miss if you weren't hooked in to it.

B5 was very much one of those 'you had to be there' sort of things I think. I'd always recommend giving it a go - but very much in the context of when it aired.

It is still I think a relatively unique show since it was planned out to run for 5 seasons and did so (with extras). It did what the BSG remake did - present a serious sci-fi drama - but earlier, and for my money, a lot better.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 Good call!

Cards on the table though - I dislike new BSG. I'd probably appreciate it more now, but I wasn't interested in the political mire and the eventual religious bent they lead the story in to. As for the ending...
Blood and Chrome was the BSG remake I wanted - that was great.

Also, BSG remake really started the ruination of American sci-fi television. Every studio wanted to emulate it to the point of having almost nothing around that wasn't in 'gritty BAFTA' territory - even Stargate!

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 I don't think 9/11 was the catalyst for the sci-fi though. Enterprise was running and just going in to its best season, Stargate was going strong and even launched the arguably hokier Atlantis spin off and even Farscape returned with the great coda of The Peacekeeper Wars.

The mid-2000s were pretty good. Near the end of BSG's run, things started to change.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny I haven't heard of anything outside of your confirmed list, although I haven't been paying too much attention to the whole crossover (as I don't actually watch the shows; I just lurk on DC news sites).

***

@KALofKRYPTON @LN78 Here's where I step in and disappoint both sides, by saying that I've actively given up on watching Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica recently.

I got the former's complete DVD box set and was really excited to start it; might've even posted about it around here, and said that I was enjoying it at first, which I was. Got towards the end of the fourth season and just gave up caring. It's when things got a little bit serious, and way more serialised. I think the last episode I watched was an extended forty-minute interrogation. I liked the characters and premise, and it was brave at times, but it lacked a compelling hook. I was also conscious of its competition with Deep Space Nine and felt that both shows harmed themselves by trying to outdo one another. At some point, for my OCD's sake, I'll go back and finish it. Not in any hurry, mind.

The latter, I very deliberately walked away from. My partner and I started watching it together and we made it as far as the two-parter where Michelle Forbes shows up. I found it so offensively bleak, so hideously repugnant and without redemption, that I refused to go any further. I hated every character, every plot development and every message it was trying to convey. My partner finished it on his own. I will never, ever watch it again. I shouldn't have expected anything better from Ronald D. Moore who, in my book, is only good for illustrating the definition of a shameless hack.

Just to try and help out, wasn't 2009's grimdark failure Stargate Universe an attempt to change the somewhat-upbeat and family-friendly Stargate franchise into a Battlestar Galactica contemporary?

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 Stargate Universe, Sanctuary, the V remake, Fringe, Falling Skies, Terra Nova, Revolution and the majority of American sci fi since the end of BSGs run has shared similar characteristics, largely that of heavy drama and multi-episode/season long arcs.
After Stargate, I can't think of anything that was in a similar vein to it, or Star Trek on TV - very little hokeyness, even less joviality and the notion of a 'monster/villain of the week', self-contained episode was all but dead.

Enterprise was cancelled near the start of BSGs second season - for as different it had started from the TNG era shows, by it's last and best season - it was very Star Trek.

There has certainly been somewhat of a resurgence in lighter sci-fi television in recent years, but the effects of BSG remain.

EDIT: @RogerRoger yeah. Stargate Universe is the veritable poster child for post BSG sensibilities.

The impression is that everyone must now see the likes of SG1 and Atlantis like the silly 'Wormhole Xtreme' parody - 'the concept still has merit so let's continue to exploit the brand but in a 'modern' (ie. BSG) way'.
And the resulting show was, like BSG, mostly entirely morose.

Edited on by KALofKRYPTON

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

ralphdibny

Thanks @RogerRoger, I know they're trash but I just love them, they are like crack. I'm super excited for the crossover, probably got a few weeks before I'm caught up enough on the missing shows to watch it though!

ralphdibny

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 If you're familiar with SG1, watch an(y) episode of Stargate Universe. You'll see what I mean ๐Ÿ˜Š

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@LN78 I kid you not, this very morning I went to shave and thought "let's try something different" so today I'm sporting a (neatly trimmed, not badly stuck-on) goatee.

Well, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction... I guess you've found yours!

@KALofKRYPTON I have a friend who adores SG-1 and Atlantis, but who loathes Universe for the very reasons you outline. He keeps trying to get me to watch it, and I've seen a fair chunk of his favourite episodes (particularly from Atlantis) so it's only a matter of time. Even though it's a much bigger undertaking, I have a feeling I might get along with it a little better than Babylon 5.

@ralphdibny You're welcome! I've been stung by too many US television shows being cancelled halfway through arcs, so I'm waiting for them all to finish properly before I get underway. Enjoy!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@LN78 Apologies; that wasn't my intention.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger cripes, that will be a lot when it's all over! I think by the end of this TV season there will be something like 29 seasons and 2 web series to catch up on already...not to mention seasons to come. I think Star Trek is currently at 33 seasons and 13 movies and 6 shorts so the arrowverse is catching up! It should pass it too because there are like 5 shows a year in the arrowverse

Edited on by ralphdibny

ralphdibny

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger I'm happy to go on record and say that SG1 is fantastic. It middles a bit here and there in later seasons, but even the lows are decent television.
It's one of the few shows that I'd say is just really fun to watch. It also gets some great performers in for guest spots and recurring side characters.

I'm not all that keen on Atlantis on the whole. The main villains look like reused Morlocks from that awful Time Machine remake with Guy Pearce and the team feel like iterations and amalgams of the SG1 core characters in one way or another. Add to that that half of them are just terrible on screen. Paul McGillion, Jason Momoa and Rachel Luttrell are painful to watch. I have all the time in the world for Jewel Staite though, and Joe Flanigan's Colonel Shepherd is great - since he's basically Nathan Drake in space ๐Ÿ˜‚

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Well, I may pick and choose to begin with. I've heard early Arrow is a bit too serious for its own good, but my best friend loves Supergirl for being more upbeat and having a sense of fun. As a Batman fan first and foremost, I'm also interested in giving Batwoman a try.

But you're right, they're adding more and more shows every year, so it's gonna be quite the undertaking! In small chunks, as long as I don't get the crossovers mixed up, I should be okay.

@KALofKRYPTON I have been shown that special episode where it's basically a comedy, and halfway through they all become supermarionation puppets. Didn't it have Claudia Black in, as some kind of space pirate or bounty hunter or something? She's always brilliant to watch (and yes, speaking of Chloe Frazer, I also thought that Joe Flanigan would make a superb live-action Nate). I also remember seeing Atlantis become something of a sanctuary for out-of-work Star Trek alumni, with both the EMH and Trip Tucker showing up in recurring roles.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
On the Arrowverse, just to repeat stuff I've probably written before ๐Ÿ˜œ
Arrow is... Bad, and gloomy and not at all like the comic character (apart from bits of one Mike Grell run), and is structured like Lost for the majority of the run.
It never really improved either. Amell is awful. But, it is easily the most 'Batman' of the Arrowverse shows.
Supergirl started really well, as did The Flash, but both became mind-numbingly formulaic as time went on. The Flash was easier to bear, the effects budget and the willingness of the producers to throw up any of the DC universe nonsense bonkers stuff help it greatly.
One of the biggest issues across the Arrowverse is something pretty common to a lot of epic fantasy I've read; you're often left with the sense that the writer never wants the protagonist(s) to succeed, or to have any lasting joy. It's pretty draining.

Legends started badly, but with Arthur Darvill's departure soon became pretty self-indulgent with farce - and all the better for it!

Black Lightning is probably the best show for the 'capes', though it tends to suffer from the common issue of inconsistent power/ability levels of the heroes. But performances and writing are usually great and tends to feel like a somewhat lighter take on black characters than (the excellent) Luke Cage.

The sadly cancelled Swamp thing is easily the better show from the DC TV shows.

The crossovers are mostly OK. Buts of fun that are handled pretty well on the whole considering the inherent limitations of being TV shows.

Crisis ended up being a bit... 'meh', but did have some truly brilliant moments of fan service throughout.

As for Batwoman. It is genuinely one of the worst productions I've seen in a while. Possibly ever.
Top to bottom, of the 7 or 8 episodes I watched, I really can't think of anything actually good about it. If you get through the entire series, I'll give you a tenner! ๐Ÿ˜‚

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Don't offer me cash money to watch bad things. This is me you're talking to here; Gungan-loving, Schumacher-supporting, Neelix-tolerating me. There's a risk I'd start asking for back-payments and bankrupt you in seconds!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger See, those things - while much maligned - all have some redeeming qualities, however small (OK, that's a pretty hard sell for the Gungans - but in a film with incredible music and lightsaber action).

It's not that I don't 'like' Batwoman, and I don't, but more that it is objectively bad; in all areas. The scripts, the plotting, the porformances, the characterisations, the relationships, the editing, the rudimentary at-best politics, the production values, the direction. It is all bad.

I and anyone else can easily take pot-shots at the Arrowverse shows for plenty of shortcomings, but none of the rest feel so very half-arsed in all things.

It's a shame more than anything. This time they've taken a pretty good character and built a crap show around her, at the same time reducing Kate Kane a shallow, selfish brat with all the nuance of character of a teenage lad's idea of what lesbians are like.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

nessisonett

@KALofKRYPTON Batwoman seems to have gotten OK reviews, at least compared to other DC ventures. Iโ€™m really not a fan of Ruby Rose so wouldnโ€™t go near that show at all but itโ€™s always interesting when critics like a show, especially a fantasy (sort of) show but itโ€™s seemingly terrible.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Well, now I'm even more curious to see it, just to compare its reality to the general "yeah, it's pretty good, with tons of potential" reactions I've been reading (as @nessisonett mentions, although I haven't ventured into any review comment sections). I was hoping Kate Kane would be handled a little better than you've described, though, regardless of everything else. Shame.

It's getting late, so I'll spare you an essay in defence of Gungans. Just know that I could...!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@nessisonett @RogerRoger
Critic reviews for Batwoman are mostly bull****. Even the ratings for the last episode after Crisis were a series low. The people championing it aren't the ones watching it, and the supposed target audience (because it obviously isn't comic/Arrowverse fans) aren't actually going to watch it other than to bark up on twitter to say how great it all is.

It's made with an eye firmly on virtue signalling instead of anything else. That goal could have been achieved by just making something good, or at least something as good as previous CW/DC shows that just happens to have a lesbian character front and center rather than just cobbling something together and writing dialogue for soundbites.

It really is awful. Hardly anything makes the slightest lick of sense and even trying to disengage your brain doesn't work when Kate is forever acting like sex pest to her married (to a man) ex, repeatedly letting the psychopathic murderous villain go free on purpose (only to kill some more), having ridiculously misogynistic encounters, beyond pathetic fight and action scenes, the worst supporting cast and characters ever put together, having zero tangible stakes, Kate taking over Wayne Enterprises (kinda, sorta, maybe, never explained) by virtue of saying she's Bruce's cousin, Kate being Batwoman and perfect at doing so instantly (apart from when the script requires some sort of awful decision making) and direction and edits making all of that markedly worse.

As I say, shame. Batwoman has been a great character in the comics, and really well rendered in some of the animated stuff. But this ain't the one.

Honestly. Tenner if you finish the whole season! ๐Ÿ˜‚ #safebet

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger early arrow and some of flash does tend to suffer from some poor writing, like characters sound the same as eachother, using the same dialogue. "And then I realised..." is a favourite line for them. I think arrow in particular suffered from a plot summary being spoken to different character before every advert break too (which is alot of summaries in 42 minutes!). Serious? I'm not sure, just a bit hammy. Some actors seem a bit insincere in their roles and Stephen Amell is particularly wooden in the first few seasons. I stayed with it because I knew that like Smallville that they would start introducing other DC characters and ultimately I came to love Arrow and all the characters in it especially most of the new characters that were introduced in the customary post 4 season switch up. It's just a bit like a soap opera. You know it's trash but you just love tuning in to see what your favourite characters are up to! I think arrowverse wiki has all the air dates for the episodes so it shouldn't be too hard to watch it in order and I would start with arrow because alot of later Arrow harks back to early seasons.

I tend to agree with @KalofKrypton on most of his points, Flash and Supergirl start off fun but become formulaic. It's usually to the detriment of a main character becoming mopey and unlikeable but every time Flash or Supergirl become miserable, I still tune in to see characters like Joe, J'onn, Alex, Maggie, Julian, Ralph, Nia etc because they are mostly fun to watch.

You are definitely spot on about Legends, I wasn't so bothered about Rip but Vandal Savage was woefully miscast. I also found Hawkman to be fairly unbearable but I think they realised what worked and ran with that and mostly dropped the baggage after the first season.

The jury is still out on Batwoman as I've yet to watch it, I suspect I will still love it even if it is trashy! I like her character in the books so...

Having said that, Titans is quite a departure from the books, not sure about Beast Boy eating that guy's heart when he was a lion in the cage and Kori's outfit and make up and characterization is just a bit ridiculous. However I still enjoyed the show, Dick Grayson, Hawk, Dove and Wonder Girl being stand out characters for me!

I love Black Lighting, not sure if it is just because it is more on the nose but I certainly felt more for the plight of black people in America than Luke Cage made me feel. Having said that Luke Cage season 2 was a massive step up from season 1 so I am gutted it got the can.

P.S. @RogerRoger the Gungans are fun especially the chief! I quite like Neelix but I prefer Phlox, I probably draw the line at Schumacher but Phonebooth was pretty good!
Edit: just googled his other films, Lost Boys, Number 23 and flatliners are pretty good too.

Edited on by ralphdibny

ralphdibny

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