Topic: Corona Virus Panic/Discussion Thread

@LieutenantFatman
The benefit of masks is that they can prevent you from being infected by airborne droplets.

The disadvantage of masks is that they can cause you to touch your face unnecessarily potentially transferring infections from your hand to your face.

If you have the self-discipline to put the mask on with clean hands and then not touch your face until you’ve washed your hands again then they are of benefit. If you don’t they aren’t.

@LieutenantFatman The italian equivalent of NHS says that masks must be used only by those having symptoms of respiratory disease or by those working in public with people at risk. Even FFP3 masks are basically useless since the filters won't stop the virus: what any kind of masks can do is to stop saliva and mucus which convey the virus, but nothing more.
I see a lot of people wearing surgical, FFP1 and FFP2 masks, but I'm sure nobody uses masks only once, transforming them in some kind of filthy sponges...

Masks are absolutely helpful, especially if everyone wears them. Organizations like the CDC have been lying to the public in order to try and dissuade them from buying up all of the masks on the market, because healthcare workers need them far more than people who aren't constantly in the presence of the sick.

With that said:

• They're not going to be effective enough to filter out most of the viral particles dispersed when someone coughs or sneezes near you. You should still behave in public like you have no protection, because social distancing is still the #1 way to prevent the continued spread of the disease.
• Paper masks should be carefully discarded as soon as you're back home, followed by prompt hand-washing.
• Wearing a mask and touching it when you're out in public is probably worse than not wearing one.

Probably the biggest benefit of them is that they can make you mindful about not touching your face. Normal paper masks aren't going to save you if you're in a space with infected people who are coughing a lot, however.

Given the huge number of asymptomatic carriers of this disease, once masks are more plentiful again, I think everyone is obliged to wear one when out in public.

@KratosMD I've not heard that, so I can't speak to that point. I'd appreciate a link to whatever source you're referring to.

Anyway, that would probably highly depend on how long you're wearing the mask, what environmental conditions are like, and so on. I'm sure if it's moderately warm and you're living in a mask, that's possibly true. Masks do help, though. There's a reason so many healthcare workers in the States are terrified about mask shortages right now, and why masks are recommended for people who are caring for COVID-19 victims.

Considering the large number of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic people, it's highly probable that many, many people are spreading it without realizing it. Which is reason enough to wear a mask when out in public either way.

Yeah, masks aren't meant to protect yourself as much as they are to protect those around you (with the exception of masks with filtration properties, such as N95 masks, which should be saved for healthcare workers).

Growth of infections has either levelled off (or at least is growing more slowly) in societies where mask usage is more common place such as Japan & South Korea, which is why there is growing consensus for the populace to wear masks when out and about. Anything that covers your face (such as a bandana) will do, as it's not about keeping yourself from getting it. You're to assume you already have it all times, and cover your face with anything, to keep your own particles from getting out.

Thanks @RogerRoger I (and my colleague no doubt) appreciate the sentiment.

It was pretty weird not teaching the past two weeks despite the fact others, like my partner, clearly were. Though trying to cram a month's worth of work and preperation into two weeks before thd lockdown was quite exhausting.

I'll be kinda glad to go back to some kind of normality in my routine!

@KratosMD

Ah, yeah, you don't want to just wear them any time you step outside, or live in them all the time.

They are useful, however, when combined with proper hand-washing and social distancing, especially in hot zones. Moreover, it helps to slow spread from asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic individuals in public spaces where you're around other people.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-26...

"However, there is an essential distinction between absence of evidence and evidence of absence. Evidence that face masks can provide effective protection against respiratory infections in the community is scarce, as acknowledged in recommendations from the UK and Germany. However, face masks are widely used by medical workers as part of droplet precautions when caring for patients with respiratory infections. It would be reasonable to suggest vulnerable individuals avoid crowded areas and use surgical face masks rationally when exposed to high-risk areas. As evidence suggests COVID-19 could be transmitted before symptom onset, community transmission might be reduced if everyone, including people who have been infected but are asymptomatic and contagious, wear face masks."

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/would-everyone-wearin...

"Despite messages from some health officials to the contrary, it’s likely that a mask can help protect a healthy wearer from infection, says Benjamin Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong. Both surgical masks and the more protective N95 respirators have been shown to prevent various respiratory infections in health care workers; there’s been some debate about which of the two is appropriate for different kinds of respiratory infection patient care. “It doesn’t make sense to imagine that … surgical masks are really important for health care workers but then not useful at all for the general public,” Cowling says."

Mask wearing is most beneficial when everyone does it, though. If I'm protecting you from myself, and you're protecting me from yourself, then the overall spread of the disease will slow.

I went cycling today, if I'd put a mask on before I left, didn't touch it during the bike ride, took it off carefuly and then washed my hands and face properly afterwards SURELY that would have been better than breathing in all the crap I undoubtably did. Bit hairy riding near the curb past people, or someone on a moped stopping less than 2 meters next to you at a set of lights etc. to be honest.

@kyleforrester87
No one seems able to agree on that. But to be fair, who needs a mask when you have a magnificent beard?

@LieutenantFatman true, and right now I have neither!

@kyleforrester87
I did not anticipate that possibility.

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@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I hope it all goes well for you. I agree though that being able to go to work allows you to keep a level of normality to your life. I also feel lucky as it means I do get to see other people routinely. As much as I joke about missing out on the gaming opportunities of the lockdown, I think I would struggle after a while.

The commute to work is also amazing at the moment!

Cheers @Thrillho!

I think that's part of why last week I was all over the place... Just a bit antsy and the suddden impact of the whole situation threw me right off balance.

And I don't doubt the commute being amazing one bit... Especially as my partner has already been going in to work and it's knocked 10 minutes or so off our journey!

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Good time to be going back with a couple of four day weeks just coming up

@LaJettatura
Thanks matey, stay safe.
I'm making sure I'm always wearing gloves where possible at work when outside. No masks available, will see what happens moving forward.

My wife and I watched the Trump briefing yesterday following on from the head physicians graphs a week or so ago.

I can't believe Trump is getting away with this one very simple sales strategy.....

He has price conditioned the USA on death. It's an age old sales tactic (somewhat lost through the 90s). The best salesmen use it every single pitch. I was going to give a breakdown of how this works but I can show you some maths instead.

In the coronavirus outbreak this sky high price conditioning has been set at between 100k-250k deaths and everyone has bitten. The news is reporting an expected quarter of a million deaths due to Trulps briefing a week last Sunday. So here is the evidence why that is overblown.

Even if the USA hit Italy type contagion currently at 16k deaths approx and rising there would be less than 66,000 deaths based on the population being a little over 4 times as many. As I mentioned it's still rising, however Italy have now hit peak. If everything was the same a little over 100k deaths would be an adequate number to propose to the people of the USA.

We now have population per square kilometre. The USA sits at 36 people - Italy sits at 206 people. This is a massive difference. Italy are a population of people on top of people. The USA has large proportions of the populace living in open land. This has a huge impact on the virus infecting people.

So my guesstimate would be 90k deaths at the top end of the scale. Trump has successfully price conditioned his own country to believe a crazy figure so when it is lower, he looks like a hero.

@themcnoisy That reminds me of Hulk Hogan during his time with WCW, he would leave for a few months when the WCW Nitro show would clash with the NBA play off season, so ratings would start to go down. Then he would return (conveniently when the play offs finished) and he would later boast that the shows were losing viewers when he was gone but they came back when he did.
Actually come to think of it, Hogan famously did a promo where he said he'd carry Trump on his back. It all makes sense now.

@AdamNovice Taking credit for a known quantity. Although to be fair to Hulk Hogan, his hulkamania was pretty awesome. Can any of the current crop hold a candle to his showmanship? I was a fan growing up, Razor Ramon, Million Dollar man, Macho Man Randy Savage. That said its the story lines with 123 kid, virgil and the wrestler who said 'woooo' and wore red trunks (can't remember his name) natural boy or something. They stood out. Bushwackers, Brett the hit an heart, Legion of Doom etc.

@themcnoisy Absolutely I agree. The wrestler today are far better talent wise but most don't have the personality to match. Stone Cold Steve Austin was on Raw the other week and you can just tell from the way he talks that he was from an era where a wrestler's personality was allowed to come across.
Oh the guy you couldn't remember his name was Ric Flair.

@LaJettatura Good information, thank you.

@LieutenantFatman Ah, that's reasonable and I appreciate your reply. Thank you.