Topic: Baldur's Gate 3

@Th3solution sounds good. I wouldn't worry about the sword, there will be more, and your main tank may change to another character that doesn't need it anyway.

Yeah, I quickly realised easy was too easy after I'd learned the basics of this type of game, but its good it is always there if you ever do need it.

Ah, a fellow monk (my Dark Urge is a Drow Monk/Druid) but I haven't really experimented much with it after my main Sword Bard playthrough. You are probably up to where I left my Dark Urge Playthrough, in fact. Although it's probably best a game not to leave on the backburner for months, as I can't really remember what I was ever building towards 😅 but I do know Gale isn't in my party this time.

I still remember the awe of taking everything in the first time, my Act 1 was probably 100 hours and only a small part of that was hoarding a bunch of stuff I wouldn't ever use 😛

What would you say stands out most to you, so far? The game structure? The World? Lore? Characters? Presentation? I probably couldn't put my finger on it, so perhaps it's an unfair question.

To me it felt like all the characters made first impressions, and then evolved as you learn more, understand more, interact more, and that is where it shines, as they aren't just characters in your game, they are people with their own histories, motivations and personalities independent from your personal story. Which is pretty rare for video game "secondary characters"

I hope you found Withers by your own initiative and not a guide. Though, I do feel everything is quite well placed to make the regular inquisitive RPG player find things naturally and in a rewarding way. I remember being intrigued by a big locked door nearly instantly. Can't quite remember if that is linked to that or something else though 😅 I do remember stumbling in on some combat pretty early too, after talking my way out of one situation, it was a trial by fire, so to speak.

I'm probably going to end up loading BG3 to see if I can remember exactly which quest path I was on in the Grove, instead of watching TLoUp2 finale now, aren't I? 🤦‍♂️

I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3 again now. I was in a quest mood and it's a great quest so the backlog is on hold. Again.

I'm a bard this time. Wildly overpowered speech check abilities. I love it because I like to play RPGs lying to people and tricking them and convincing them. I'm really into speech checks. I don't know why.

Started it yesterday morning and I think I'm near the end of the first act. I've played this game twice before, and as with both of those other times I feel like I'm underlevelled all the time. I don't know how. I do absolutely everything and go everywhere. And then I look up on Google what level I should be for a fight that's tough, and it's like two levels higher than I am, and I'm like how?

Although, I've found two quests this time around that I didn't do on either of my other playthroughs so that's probably the answer. I think I must just be missing stuff every time. Regardless, I'm getting through it so it's not the end of the world, I just would like to do a more complete playthrough at some point.

@johncalmc I would say if you've got to the end of act 1 in a day you're probably missing quite a lot 😱 I mean, even if you'd played 24 hours straight, I'd say you'd have to do that 4 more times to get closer to seeing everything.

You might be a very fast and efficient gamer, but I feel there's a lot of stuff that requires not following markers, talking to unmarked NPCs, exploring at random, finding books and notes that lead to quests, that kind of thing, which i imagine would be hard to do at pace.

I genuinely can't imagine it being possible. But I don't want to say "did you see x,y,z" as I wouldn't want to spoil any natural discoveries.

@Ravix Well I did nothing else all day and I've played it twice before so I kinda knew where to go etc. I've got one more thing to do, and then I'm pretty sure I'm ready to leave and go to the next area unless I'm forgetting about anything. That said, I do think I'm missing things, but I'm rubbish at following guides and I don't like it. I did look up on a guide though a rough outline of quests and reading it I think I've done them all and I've explored the whole map.

I have seen at least two things though on this playthrough that I'm sure I never did before. They weren't big things or anything, but there was a whole small area in a basement that I'm sure was totally new to me. It's a strange game in that you can play it repeatedly and see different things. I recall, in my first playthrough two of the party got into a fight and I had to choose a side and we killed the other. Pretty wild actually, but I've never seen that scene on either of my next playthroughs, or even had the argument kick off that starts it.

It should be noted that I also might be misremembering where Act 1 ends. I think it ends when you move from the first place to the second place. So if that's not the end of Act 1, that's where I'm at.

@johncalmc yeah, if you know where you're going it's going to be faster for sure. I was just wondering whether, say if you missed something first time, and you're following a similar path as you know how to do so quickly, that maybe you'd be missing the same things every time by following the same main path that you already travelled, if you see what I mean.

Yeah, I wouldn't follow a guide as guides tend to miss things in favour of being efficient anyway by providing optimal routes, rather than fun exploration.

Was the basement the book based quest? I remember a certain basement and a very interesting book.

There's tonnes of hidden areas though, which is what makes it fun to just randomly explore away from quest markers. I know when I break out of jail there's a stone door that leads to a random area, and I don't think it's ever marked for a quest going that way 😅 but I imagine going the other way with a different allegiance is also possible too.

I think I actually found Ethel's place in my first playthrough after having missed her in the grove. Which is probably not the optimal way to do it but it made for some surprising events 😅

I swear it probably took me that long to just do the creche area and its related content on the route toeards it, I think there was a large outer building and puzzles once there, and then a set of quests within once you get in too.

I do play games slowly though, regardless, so 😁

As for my exploration into an old save, I feel I now have a grasp on what I was doing. I'd encouraged the death of a little girl (bad Dark Urge, bad) and I've unlocked a new quest I'd not seen because of it. Which means I probably don't have to go to a swamp (I still might just to get the lore and fight some stuff) but the given quest is one I want to see through as it's a suitably deadly and efficient solution to a problem.

I'd also annoyed Mol, so decided I might as well push it to see what happens, and I ended up in jail. A jail I know too well.

Can't remember if I'm helping Pandora or not, she just screams for guards if I enter that room, which I did from the other side during my escape. I know there's that extra door to explore more too, but I'm not sure I'll bother with that this playthrough.

Don't know if I'm helping Szaza or not 🤔

I'll probably leave the grove 'as is' for now, as I've yet to explore beyond that area yet, and I think there's quite a lot to see.

@Ravix The basement was part of the lost cargo quest where there's a merchant and stuff down there. I've played it twice and missed that both times. I don't know how.

And yeah it's a total concern of mine that knowing where to go because of what I did last time means that I'll probably miss the same things that I missed last time. I have tried to go everywhere and I keep talking to people.

I'm always just concerned I'm never at the right level. Weirdly, this doesn't happen the further the game goes. On both my previous playthroughs, I found that by the time I got to Act 3 I'm overlevelled for every quest based on what guides say. So I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm better at finding everything in the later areas.

@johncalmc I'm determined to get to the bottom of it now 😅 I can't see why you'd be underlevelled. Do you pick one route or do you do both

The Underdark and the Mountain Pass when travelling to Moonrise Tower? I know it's possible to do both, as I did that, but I can't quite remember the ins and outs of it as its been quite a long time.

Both routes have plenty of combat opportunities though, so you'd expect to level up there.

@Ravix “What would you say stands out most to you, so far? The game structure? The World? Lore? Characters? Presentation?”
Yeah, that’s a tough one, as the whole package is the impressive part — The fact it has such high quality presentation but also extremely deep mechanics and lore. But I’d say the openness and branching paths and dialogue is the most impressive part to me that I don’t see in other games apart from Detroit Become Human and other story centric games. The branching narrative options and extremely deep mechanics of builds and how to approach the gameplay. That’s what sets it apart from others I’ve played.

The characters aren’t extraordinary, although they are growing on me, and eventually I think I’ll grow attached, but so far they’re relatively standard fantasy characters.

I do think the actual main story is just okay right now. The tadpoles in the brain thing is a little weird and maybe it’s because this is my first Baldur’s Gate game, but the set-up isn’t necessarily what I like about the game. It’s fine and it serves as a good way to connect to the cast with this shared conflict of being infected with this alien species(?), or whatever it is.

“I hope you found Withers by your own initiative and not a guide.”
Yes, I did find him on my own! Just exploring around and opening doors. 😄 Astarion is a fantastic lock picker.

I’m actually surprised how quickly I’m able to access respeccing as a result. I barely have started my build and don’t really know exactly how to develop everyone, much less have any gold to spare to use his services. 😅

@johncalmc I’m new to the game, but is it possible that because you’re talking/charming yourself out of a lot of conflicts that you’re avoiding fights and not getting as much XP and therefore leveling up slower? It’s a concern I have about games that allow me to bypass combat because I worry that if I do that too much that I’ll rob myself of much needed experience for leveling.

@Ravix Both the first times I played it I did Underdark first and then went back and did the Mountains. I will probably do the same here because I think Underdark is slightly easier and I'm underlevelled. Then when I've done both I'm the right level or over. Then in Act 3 I end up over because I do everything I can find. At least that's how I remember it. I'm sure the last time I played it I was something like 4 or 5 levels over the recommended for the big optional baddie at the end.

I might have another look at a guide now for Act 1 and see if I can pinpoint what I'm not doing that's leaving me underlevelled. I need closure. I've probably skipped half the game :')

edit: I've seen a few things I haven't done - small things. But I've done most of it. I have also discovered that I'm nowhere near the end of Act 1. What I thought was considered the end of Act 1 is not considered the end of Act 1 apparently.

@Th3solution The game is allegedly balanced so that you can talk your way out of trouble and you get comparable experience to fighting. You can also double experience by talking to people and then also killing them. I actually do that quite a bit, particularly in one of the big moments in Act 1 - I trick my way in, do the things I want to do trickery style, and then start taking everyone out.

@Th3solution interesting. Other such games with that classic branching RPG dialogue option style, and clearly created in very much the same way in that regard would be: TW3 and KCD very interesting, indeed 😛

I wouldn't worry about XP and combat, my Bard talked our party out of plenty of situations, but I still had to fight an awful lot of the time, and usually on a fairly large scale. I think you get a bunch of xp for just doing certain things too, discoveries, sticking to tasks, solving problems etc.

I won't try to convince you of anything in regards to any story or characters, nor should anyone else, as you are only just setting off on your journey and it is for you to experience. Everyone's journey is going to be different depending on what they do too.

All i know is it's a game I wish I could experience for the first time again

@Ravix So, just a question, do you think it best to stay true to one philosophy and morality throughout the story, or is it okay to flip-flop? (Like be evil sometimes and be good sometimes, or romance one character and then dump them and romance another). Usually I pick a role and try to stay consistent, or if the game allows, I might try to go all the way to the good on the morality meter, then after maxing that out go all the way evil on the morality meter. This way I get to see more of the game and all the different options.

The game is so long, it feels like I’m going to end up being a mixed bag of choices. And still not cover it all. Just wondering if I dampen my experience if I side with one person or group once and then go against it another time.

@Th3solution I'd just weigh up what you think at the time based on the events, what you've gone through, how the people around you start to influence your morality or views. There is literally no way to see everything in one play through. So as long as you feel it was right at the time yoir good, and you will get to see the consequences to deal with later.

Treat the characters as people and not game options, I'd say is the best thing in that regards.

I know for example you mentioned SH was a bit chippy, and I'm wondering if maybe you met her and then instantly exhausted her dialogue options without considering what they were and how she'd feel with the questions you asked, and maybe how you'd feel being put under a microscope as soon as you met someone in a very, very weird situation.

Go with your gut is the best advice, and I've probably said it in many different ways by now.

Hopefully it kind of makes sense with what you're wondering. Do things. Expect consequences. Treat people as you would (or your character would, in this case)

People can change based on their experiences (especially people with a case of the old brain parasites 😛) so some of what you say can be achievable, but I'd let it come naturally based on what you know and feel at the time rather than plot it out beforehand.

I actually used to make little character, story and motivation notes that I could refer to as well. Writing down my thoughts and theories at the time, and going back to them if something changed etc. So I could have a few notes of what I thought or knew someone's ambitions or plans to be in case something later on was relevant to that just to make sure I was making a decision by considering evidence I'd already gathered, or to gain greater understanding of what was going on.

@Ravix Ok, sounds good. In that case I’ll probably be fairly consistent-ish with doing a “good guy” playthrough. Some decisions and conversations are obviously more binary than others, and some seem to be larger watershed moments than others, so I can experiment on the fringes with the smaller events and then stay mostly true with my character’s role of trying to do the right thing on the big plot points. But some of these morally grey areas are harder to navigate. Sometimes I don’t want to side with any of the involved parties. And the game even gives that option! It’s just so fascinating!

I do wonder what it would be like to just be a jerk and kill everyone I come in contact with, like Withers and Astarion and Lae’Zel and just be the biggest jerk in Faerun. Can you beat the game if you kill off your whole party and try to solo everything? 😂

@HallowMoonshadow Yes, definitely having a blast and I will admit that as I was playing I did think about DOS2 more than once. In one sense I felt some relief that after BG3 I’ll have DOS2 to fall back on to satisfy the Larian appetite that I’m cultivating. In another sense I felt like I may have peaked too early and going back to DOS2 might feel like a let down after BG3. As you know I’ve purposefully taken the approach of trying to crescendo my Souls journey and am saving Elden Ring for the climactic project after first hitting DS 1-3, I wonder if BG3 should have been saved. BG2 is another that I’m curious about, although it’s not a Larian game, and going back to it would be interesting for see if it holds up as an all-time great.

But these games take for effin’ long to complete that I feel like in my current phase of life I can’t be investing hundreds (thousands?) of hours to play all the progenitors before feasting on the main course. Still, don’t be surprised if DOS2 shows up within the next year as a game I’m playing. Speaking of, @Ravix , have you considered Divinity Original Sin 2? Sounds like it would be right up your alley.

Anyway, back to my BG3 run, I actually like what I’ve seen of Wyll so far, but I’ve only just met him and had him join. I switched him out for Astarion for the time being, but I don’t want to abandon my lock picker for long though. Wyll does seem a good character with an interesting back story. I know he’s the forgotten step-child of the party, from what I’ve seen, but I’m not opposed to investing time with him. We’ll see. I did read something somewhere that he was a late addition or late revamp by Larian? Something about during play testing whatever character he replaced or grew to be was heavily problematic in the early stages, so they had to last-minute modify him into what he is now in the game. I’m not sure of the details and I stopped reading since I didn’t want to expose myself to spoilers. From a gameplay perspective I can see how he may not add a whole lot to the party as far as skills though.

I’m definitely using Shadowheart and agree that the cleric skills are handy and I very much like her combination of healing, defense, and both melee and magic options when attacking. I reckon she’ll be a regular in my party. It’s just I want to toss her sometimes when she gives me the pompous condescending holier-than-thou spiels. 😂 I’m sure she’ll grow on me, and I’m trying to keep her happy because I value her in combat. And I need to know what that little mysterious relic box is. 😛

Gale is just so well voice-acted and has some funny one-liners in the early moments. I don’t know much about his background, but the way he brushes me off to keep his past history a mystery is more humorous and less grating than the others, who all want to bite my head off for prying. 😂 But as Rav said, I need to consider them as real people and how a person might respond when I ask about them. I do like that the game really cultivates a relationship in a lifelike way where (at least it sounds like) you see characters develop naturally as you get to know them. And even with my own character (stayed with the generic “Tav” name) I’ll probably evolve as you have with Ciara. To start I’ve been mostly virtuous, fair, and trying to not stir up trouble. I’m trying to comfort people, and not escalate, but I have my principles and when someone crosses me, the fists come out! 😅 I’m doing well on the wisdom checks and have been trying to discern people’s thoughts and motives as often as possible. A lot of people don’t like you prying into their thoughts though, I’ve discovered!

Its my shtick and I'm running with it @HallowMoonshadow 😛 in a world where everyone loves TW3 and BG3, it is still massively underrepresented in the RPG space.

And you thought @Th3solution would be vanilla, and yet they are now asking me whether they can murder the entire party and carry on on their merry way 💀 how to admit you're the dark urge without admitting you're the dark urge, amirite? 😱

Yes, you could murder the entire party, although touch Withers and we will all hunt you down by sunset. But I wouldn't advise murdering the entire party in a first playthrough as 70%? of all the best content involves the party members and you would just be making the game much worse for yourself. But, you know, Dark Urge playthrough 2, go wild 💀

If you do want to murder everyone, maybe start with Gale, especially if he starts a-thirstin', if you want to see the game reward you for it in its own unique way.

If not, go back to the advice of, treat these people as people, whether you like them or not

Also, yes Gale is well acted, they all are when you get into the meat of their tales, and he's definitely one that has a more affable first impression. First impressions, pah!

@Ravix 😂 Sound advice. Yeah, I wasn’t actually planning to murder the whole party but I was just curious since the option pops up on nearly every one you meet, including Withers. What kind of psychopath just attacks everyone they come in contact with? Although the thought initially came to me due to Withers being quite creepy and scary at first glance so I wondered how often people just attack him not realizing how important he is.

But yeah, after I said that about recklessly executing the party, I thought that maybe that might be what the Dark Urge playthrough is supposed to be.

@Th3solution I think there option to be evil is for all, like a very paranoid person thinking all these other people are against them might be one to murder them before they murder them back. Or just killing like a crazy murder hobo because their character is pure evil. But Dark Urge is in some ways much more subtle, and in other ways very, very unsubtle. And it's not necessarily up to the player

So... Alfira came to visit...

Asides from the mildly spoilery photo mode fun from my second playthrough above i'm actually a bit sad now. I'm very much glad that my Bard playthough was my one and only true canon playthrough, and this is just some random alternate universe with the Dark Urge in it. It's made even worse because my Drow Monk/Druid can't even play the damn Lute 😭

I might have to load my Bard save and have a listen to the songs in their full glory, as this is very much not that 😭

You know that thing I said about being at the end of Act 1? I wasn't. I totally misremembered where Act 2 starts. I'm still in Act 1. I was way off :')