Topic: Red Dead Redemption 2 OT

I love coming home to the gang at the campfire after being away hunting for days (that day/night cycle is rapid). I especially love the way that each character remembers how Arthur treats them. For example, I was teasing one of the girls and the following morning she asked if I was going to be nice to her today. It's very immersive.

@LN78 @kyleforrester87 @BAMozzy Digital Foundry have examined the HDR and essentially said that it is basically SDR upscaled, so that scaler just changes the white balance and all of the lighting levels are completely incorrect for a HDR display. I thought I was going mad with this game constantly adjusting it and I even booted up Horizon to see if I'd done something with the TV but that looked incredible, I've turned the HDR off now and it doesn't look much different.

I do find it strange that such a high profile big budget game has issues like this and the dodgy 4K reconstruction on the Pro

@LN78 a little bit, I know they sometimes do have a separate video for HDR but for something so obvious it seems strange not to even mention it

@carlos82 It's a weird thing really, I actually started playing with it turned off last night and by the end of the night I'd found myself preferring it off.

It looks dramatically different on/off on my TV, not really BAD by any stretch, but I guess washed out is the only word. I wasn't sure if it was an artistic choice or something.

@kyleforrester87 yeah washed out seems like a good way to describe it, shame really as the lighting in this game is amazing and I can only imagine how incredible it could look with true HDR. For me the likes of God of War, Horizon and good old FFXV are still the standout games in that regard

@carlos82 I can't comment on the PS4 (Pro or base version) as I bought for Xbox One X. The use of HDR does seem to be more 'subtle' and reminds me more of watching some of Netflix shows which are HDR but you feel you have to check if your TV has actually switched to HDR because it doesn't look as 'spectacular' as the HDR demo's. Certainly the first Chapter, the snow wasn't exceptionally bright. I thought though that as you move on and into chapter 2, when you start to see the green coming through the snow, the skies brightening up etc, the colours become more vibrant although still seemingly more 'natural' than bright and saturated. Certainly doesn't seem washed out, crushed etc. Its not the most impressive or most 'extreme' use, and by extreme, I mean pushing the TV to its limits by having extreme brights and excessively saturated colours and shiny materials. This is 1899 after all and things like plastics and vibrant, unnatural dyes are not in use.

As for Rockstars implementation of Chequerboard rendering, its their first and only version to use this method. It maybe that the decision to try it came very late on - maybe with pressure from Sony because of the X and its native 4k. I don't know for definite but as we know, all other versions just use 'native' rendering techniques and the Pro is the only one to use CB rendering. It would make sense for the XB1 to use it too to deliver a 1080p image and would probably have helped with the performance in towns a bit as it would be rendering lower than 862p (960x1080p essentially). Other games, especially Sony's own studio's, may well have had a LOT more time and support from Sony and other studio's who had also implemented CB. After al, GG used CB in Killzone:SF back in 2013 and the best use of it on a Pro in H:ZD so had experience that they could pass on to Sony Santa Monica for God of War. Rockstar may well of only had months or even weeks to try and do something for the Pro. Maybe they will update the game, get some help from GG or Sony to improve it but for all we know, the decision to go this route rather than native and upscale on Pro could have been a late after-thought.

Most developers have their own variation on this technique - often built into the engine. The principals maybe similar but there isn't a 'standard' for it. As such, I think its worth giving Rockstar the benefit of doubt and see what develops. We can't blame them without hearing their side. I don't play GTAv but I don't recall that being updated for Pro enhancements so isn't this Rockstar's first Pro enhanced game?

@BAMozzy it's essentially not HDR at all on any of the consoles, the scale in the options doesn't affect the peak luminance but the white pixel brightness of the SDR signal, so something like a white painted wall is the same brightness as the sun. It also explains why light sources such as torches/fireplaces don't appear to be brighter than much around them. I doubt it's an artistic choice but probably HDR coming to the fore fairly late in its development cycle, perhaps it'll be something they patch in at a later date.

As for the checkerboarding, there are so many different interpretations on the Pro from those built in the system to the quite magnificent solutions Insomniac and Guerrilla Games came up with for Spiderman and Horizon respectively, the latter of which has fantastic HDR support too. I will say that this isn't as bad as that digital foundry video suggests, as that was almost entirely zoomed in for the duration but it is softer than I'd expect, this could be just a result of halving the resolution on one axis coupled with TAA, it still looks great overall just less impressive then I'd expect from such a large budget title. Maybe they spent too much time playing with horse balls

Anyone know how severe the loss of content is for those who didn't pre-order or get the special edition or whatever? I'd rather not wait until the complete edition comes out just to get the full game.

Nothing you can't live without.

Ahh, sweet. May just go pick the game up, in that case. Thanks!

@KirbyTheVampire And actually the “preorder bonus” is actually more like a Day 1 Edition bonus — every case of the game that was shipped to be sold on Day 1 release has the download codes for the bonus items in it (also includes access to a new horse). I went and bought it on Day 1 without a preorder and still got the bonus. By now all those copies might be sold, but depending on the retailer they may have some left over that they are still getting rid of.

I caved in and grabbed myself a copy of RDR2. I'm about two hours in, having finished the first two story missions (still in Chapter 1). I can see where some of the complaints of it being too slow come from, but I personally love these atmospheric, slow, dialogue-driven missions so far. I can't wait to continue my time with this game. The graphics are gorgeous, and I'm really digging the snow in this! I can't remember the amount of times I've just run around in the snow looking at the tracks I'm leaving behind.... So far the characters are also being introduced and developed at a nice pace, each with great voice actors as is standard Rockstar fashion. No real complaints so far, apart from the controls being very convoluted. Not particularly a bad thing or something that has hindered my experience so far, but it's taking some getting used to. I'm sure I'll be putting a lot more hours into this later today.

@Tjuz I think when talking about it being slow, it's more about how Arthur handles and that coupled with a control scheme obsessed with holding down buttons before an action is performed. It's definitely started to grate on me after a while and with every mechanic introduced it seems to get worse. It's certainly a fantastic game and the world is incredible but I'm becoming a bit more bemused as to why so many reviewers apparently haven't noticed any of these and more nagging issues that I've come across

@Tjuz Just wait until the game opens up and allows you to basically do what you want. If, like me, you want to loot all the dead on a battlefield. then having to go up to 'every' body, hold down a button for half a second or me, wait then for Arthur to get into the perfect position to then crouch and do a search, wait for him to stand up and then move to next body and 'repeat'. If you have 30 or more 'dead' to loot, that can take quite a while compared to some games where you could spend 10secs or so just running over all the bodies and have picked up every bit of loot and be back to doing the 'fun' stuff. Maybe the reviewers didn't bother doing this too much, more keen on getting through the story and some side quests than spending too much time looting, exploring, shopping etc so they could get to the end to write their review. It doesn't bother me too much but I can see why some may find it slow or will grate after a while...

Its not that the game is bad or less of a game because of this, its beautifully animated and the attention to detail is great too. Shopping is more realistic as you can just see what you want and pick it up to examine or just buy. The catalogue idea is great too - and whilst it is essentially like the old menu system of shopping with some detail and/or stats, the presentation adds more to the immersion.

I do think that its considered 'slow' because of all the animations - even just picking up your hat after its been knocked off can take a few seconds as Arthur bends down, gives a bit of look over before putting it on his head and handing control back to you. Its not a 'fast' game either when it comes to movement speeds. The snow chapter 1 is more of an extended tutorial - giving you an introduction to the gang and mechanics. When you get to chapter 2 though, that's when things open up and leaves you more to your own devices. That snow area is also more linear in story progression too and leads you through the basics so its relatively well paced in terms of story. I haven't progressed much into Chapter 2 yet or really gone too far from that initial area/town. It could really drop in pace if I decide to go off hunting, resource gathering or exploring.

I don't have a probably taking the time to loot the dead but having someone in the gang tell me to hurry up the whole time drives me crazy.

I've been playing the game all week, I'm kind of "meh" about it really. I'll keep playing, maybe it'll grow on me.

But it's not immediately fun, like BotW.

And I just wish it handled like MGS5.

This game has really clicked for me now. Every minute away is spent thinking about it. I can see this becoming one of my all-time faves. I've not even progressed through Chapter Two, story wise. I've just been doing odd jobs, bounty missions and wandering around the world.

@carlos82 @BAMozzy I definitely meant story-wise. I've seen complaints here and there that the opening hours of the game were too slowly paced. I can see how the gameplay might become a bit tedious at some point with all the extended animations. So far, however, the extended animations have added a sense of realism that I've personally really enjoyed, but like I said, I'm only about 2 hours in! I could hate the slower animations in 10 hours for all I know.

I've been playing it like a hunting simulator. At my own pace, slow and steady and it's been absolutely fantastic.