@Th3solution Because society’s set up for there to be winners, losers and an endless cycle of misery. So lots of games are ‘kill or be killed’. It’s not even a nature thing, ant and bee colonies are perfectly fine in their collectivist societies. Probably why I enjoy a life sim.
@nessisonett There is a bee simulator game I think. 😛 It might be worth a look.
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I was curious and so I looked back at my last 30 games I’ve played (arbitrary number I chose which roughly spans the last year and a half) and I count 11 of the 30 where gunplay is central to the game. Some of the other 19 have guns in them in one form or another, but they aren’t particularly important in the game, such as Astobot’s playroom (the gun is barely even recognizable as such) or Persona 5 (where the gun option is there, but is mostly an afterthought used only in specific instances). So what is that… 37% of my games are centered around gun combat. It’s a lot lower than I thought though.
But yes, probably about 70% of them are centered on killing and some form of kill or be killed scenario. The remaining 30% are racing games, puzzle games, sims, sports, or platformers.
I think I’m different than most gamers though. I’d suspect most people’s games are majority gunplay centered. For me I favor some diversity.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@nomither6 Yeah, there are guns in Batman and Star Wars, but they're not essential, and there is no gunplay featured in either game's core gameplay at all. Despite having gun-esque gadgets, Batman doesn't fire a gun. Cal Kestis doesn't use a blaster. You could remove all guns and still enjoy largely the same experience. Shooters are popular, but they're only one branch of the vast gaming tree.
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@ralphdibny I agree. In fact, I think the best action games pace their combat like a movie, because movies recognise the art of a good action sequence. I was watching a Bond movie with my partner recently, and this topic came up, because he usually hates mindless action but was enjoying the storytelling, imagination and craft behind the Bond sequences (which are widely recognised as the best in the business). You can't just have "and then they all shoot at each other" for an hour of your movie, so why do games think that they can get away with the same for six, seven hours of gameplay?
And like you, I say (or type) all this knowing full well that I've chosen a hobby dedicated to providing me with endless, often mindless interactive action sequences. I mean seriously, now that you've mentioned the series, I could go for an Uncharted game right about now!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
I also think guns just translate well to games. Like racing games too. These game types focus on having something in your hand (controller/pistol) where you pull triggers/press buttons (pistols have those too), so it just easily transports the player into the game.
We've seen a lot of melee games too, but is much more difficult to translate the subleties of that types of combat into a game. Pres button to kick is just less immersive on a technical level.
With a gun in real life it matters: where you aim and when you pull a trigger. We can translate those two into a game 1:1.
With melee combat what matters is: which body part you aim (that's already near impossible to put into a realtime game), how hard you hit (we are getting there), but also how you position your body (impossible to put 1:1 in a game). That doesn't mean you can't make a very good melee game, because you can, but you always lose some of the subtleties.
Not saying I only want gun games, because I try to alternate a game with guns with at least two other type of games always. So there's still a lot of options anyway.
@RogerRoger "You can't just have "and then they all shoot at each other" for an hour of your movie, so why do games think that they can get away with the same for six, seven hours of gameplay?"
I must say I disagree. The answer is easy: different medium, different way of telling the story. So it's not really fair to compare games to movies. The Avengers also doesn't work in novel form, but they work in comics and film.
I think video games can tell stories through combat without any scripting at all, which is what I like most about video games actually.
I had a fight with a horde of zombies that lasted for over an hour in Days Gone; and it remains one of my best moments on gaming from last year (all my favorite gaming moments last year happened in Days Gone actually). I started really confident fighting them, but then I made a mistake aiming a grenade, which forced me to flee, I ran around for a minute with a horde of over 100 zombies behind me, heart thumping, after which I found a house and decided to hold up there, only to find out I had actually been surrounded now, and the zombies even prevented me from escaping through the roof. I tried to kill them with all the ammo I had left, but I knew I didn't have enough. So I waited for them to leave, but they just wouldn't leave. Why? Then I noticed there was a window in the house through which they could probably see me. My way out? Maybe, but then I would have to think of something to distract them for long enough, etc. etc.
Also, games are way longer than movies, so they can get away with longer sequences in general. They're more interactive, so in general it should take longer before you are bored of it. Real life is even more interactive, which is why I have had "dialogs" with people for hours, sitting at the same table, even though nobody would even think to turn that conversation into a film script.
@Kidfried Okay, perhaps my comparison was a little clumsy. That's a fair point.
It's tough because gaming is such a unique art form, thanks to the randomisation of the player. Your story from Days Gone was entirely dependent on your input. Without making that grenade mistake, you might've stayed confident throughout the entire encounter, which might've resulted in you feeling unthreatened, comfortable and therefore a little bored. It's awesome that the game adapted to your sudden panic like that (and seriously, thanks for sharing your chaotic struggle to survive; my pulse is racing just from reading it!) but it's equally possible that, either by playing on a lower difficulty or by taking a second longer to aim, you'd have had a totally different experience.
By semi-scripting some key action sequences, my favourite games manage to hold my interest regardless of whether I've been stuck in cover for twenty minutes, figuring out tactics, or whether I've just breezed through in thirty seconds, chaining headshots whilst absorbing bullets. That isn't to say I haven't enjoyed games with long stretches of mindless action (sometimes it's exactly what I need) but I certainly prefer ones with some kind of periodic payoff or feedback. I'm sure, as the A.I. technology advances, the lines between scripted action and totally free interactivity will become even more blurred.
So, when they come to turn this conversation into a film script, who'd you wanna play you?
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Th3solution that's really interesting actually, i might actually have a look at my list from March '20 until now and see what games you control a gun in!
@RogerRoger Unless I actually want to do something specific, I often choose my entertainment based on how restless different parts of my body are. Having not done a lot in this last year and a half, I've found that my hands are so restless that I'll often play games over watching something. Occasionally even into the "shared" entertainment time with my partner in the evening where we would usually watch something together (we've still had a lot of time for that anyway).
If my hands and eyes are busy, like if I have to do something on the computer (like writing my CV a couple months ago) or driving my car, then I'll listen to music! Admittedly it's a lot rarer that that would be the case.
I don't disagree with either you or @Kidfried , I think the points you are making might be slightly different. The appeal of something like Uncharted is the swashbuckling action, comedy, scripted events, treasure hunting, a bit of combat etc. But when you are just gunning down generic pirates for 10-15 minutes, it slows down the pace of the game.
On the other hand, (I assume, because I haven't played it) that one of the appeals of Days Gone is surviving which Kidfried's point illustrates perfectly. Same with something like modern Doom, it's fun to bounce around and blast hellspawn to erm, hell 😅. I think the key difference is whether the trope is forced and out of place or whether it feels organic to the structure of the game. If it feels both forced and organic, then well, maybe that game just isn't to your tastes 😅.
Forgive me if that sounds like I'm putting words into either of your mouths, I don't mean to. I was just offering an opinion on what both of you have said. Bit tired right now so I can't really grasp how well I am getting my point across 😅.
@ralphdibny No, I get what you mean (at least from my perspective). You don't play DOOM for the story, just in the same way that there are far better shooters out there than Uncharted. If you're looking for a certain type of gaming, then there are optimal design choices and experiences out there. And I think that drags me back to the point I was originally trying to make with those GIFs, because you can enjoy all types of gun-free experiences, from cartoonish simplicity to complex cinematic action. I got lost in that awkward movie comparison, so we'll just pretend like I never made it!
I also wanna highlight that @Kidfried makes an excellent point about controllers, and having direct control over things in your digital hands, and being able to replicate a 1:1 experience. Pointing and shooting guns (or projectile weapons in general) are an amazing fit for gaming for exactly that reason and then, as you branch out into other genres, the returns start to diminish.
Anyway, glad it's not just me who's constantly got music on whilst writing!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Skyward Sword certainly had a go at sweeping certain body parts out with a sword. I wish all modern controllers were split in 2 down the middle to be honest. Lazy gaming is way better. One hand behind your head and the other down by your legs. The Switch is awesome for playing in weird but comfortable positions 😅
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Topic: If guns didn't exist , what do you think games would be like ?
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