Final Fantasy XVI developer Creative Business Unit III — an internal studio at Square Enix — set out to try something new with the series' latest instalment. The team's goal was to create a Final Fantasy title that could attract a "new generation" of players, and the main thrust of its plans manifested as an all-action combat system.
In an interview with Game Informer, producer Naoki Yoshida admits that crafting the combat system was the hardest part of development. After all, the mainline games have stuck with turn-based or command-based battles for decades. The only outlier is Final Fantasy XV, but even then, its comparatively simple system has nothing on Final Fantasy XVI, which takes inspiration from fast-paced, more complex action titles like Devil May Cry.
"Probably the biggest challenge had to do with designing the battle system and going into full real-time action," Yoshida says. "Instead of going back to turn-based, we said, ‘Okay, this is a chance for us to challenge ourselves to try to do something that the series had never done but that we want to really try to do, and that’s moving to the full action-based system.'"
But what about something like Final Fantasy VII Remake? Square Enix's well received revival managed to successfully combine both action and command-based mechanics, to create a rather unique (and satisfying!) battle system.
Well, Yoshida does bring it up: "There was always the option to maybe try a hybrid type of system where we have action and turn-based elements, but again, rather than trying that and having something that’s not complete and not satisfying, we decided to focus fully on just bringing the action."
The team took its pursuit of all-out action seriously, of course. One of the project's key members is combat director Ryota Suzuki, who had a hand in creating some incredible action games at Capcom, such as Devil May Cry 5 and Dragon's Dogma.
Not everyone will be enamoured with Final Fantasy's move into the action RPG genre, but it's clear that Creative Business Unit III had a vision right from the start — and it appears to have executed on it very well.
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[source gameinformer.com]
Comments 44
Can't wait for this game I enjoy ff7 remake combat it was great. And ff16 will be no different.
Yeah the DMC style battle system is the biggest concern for me as I hated dmc5, that style of gameplay isn’t for me.
So I’ll have to play the demo to make a more informed decision
At least they've committed to it, it might not be the direction I'd personally like but I'd much rather they went all in one way or the other. I'm still not entirely sold on this, I did really enjoy XV but wasn't too keen on the FFVII remake and these days I struggle to find time for many long games and Zelda is currently filling that role. Still I'll be keeping an eye on it
I'm looking forward to trying a demo but if the combat is a weightless floaty mess like FFXV or Forspoken then it can sod right off.
Why are we still saying "action rpg"... Action game yes. rpg? So far there's no sign of that.
I still can't imagine dmc combat for a multi hundred hour epic adventure. It still sounds like a slog.
Totally, dude. Who wants a system where you can control an entire party of characters without sacrificing the action feel of the combat? No, only being able to control one character feels much more "complete" in a series defined by its party-based combat and character dynamics.
@KaijuKaiser Seriously, you've made a hobby out of attacking anyone who isn't singing praises about one of the biggest RPG series becoming not an RPG. If you hate RPGs, love action slashers, and only play FF "for the story", then hooray for you. But people who have supported a series for almost 30 years because of what it is are justified in not being pleased with that series being taken to become something else.
Turn based combat should be forbidden
Hybrid felt pretty complete on FF7 Remake
@NEStalgia God man how much negativity are you going to bring to this game? If you don't like it, stop clicking on the article
I am still disappointed that we only play as one character instead of a party.
Playing other party memebers besides the MC in past jrpg's, helped me connect and actually care about them as characters.
The story and characters of FF16 has to be very good, to replace that feeling I used to have.
@ApostateMage Especially 15, I hated that game's combat.
@KaijuKaiser When the next Soulsborne is a cell shaded cartoon art style with easily accessible gameplay for all and fans just "embrace it or move on" then we can talk about FF deciding to become Bayonetta of War as an ok thing.
Despite still finding 7Rs combat satisfying, in a way he's right. Altho this is more probably due to it being split into 3 parts, but Cloud and co. have a pretty small moveset even towards the end of the game. With only a few important moves ever actually mattering. Meanwhile 16 seems to take into account any and every move allowing for different combos you can easily switch too of which there are many. Combat just seems way more robust than ever, when it comes to action games in the series anyway
@NEStalgia they call it an action rpg cause it's an action rpg lol. And they've already said 35 hrs for main story, 70-80 for everything
Good decicion. While if prefer traditional turn based battle system I'd rather take a fully action battle system over that hybrid battle system of FF7R. Either commit fully to it or don't do it at all imo. Always needing to navigate menues because e.g. the AI didn't do anything on their own (or constantly switch between them) completely ruins the flow of the battle. I didn't enjoy FF7Rs battle system at all
I can't wait for the Game of Thrones/Witcher era of RPG's to be over with so we can get something different that's not just copying and pasting the same two things over and over again.
I’m fine with this. Let FF7R do its thing while FFXVI shines in its own way. I’m so pumped to play it!
@NEStalgia NES i am surprised i have to teach you of all people the rules. But i will try my best to catch you up to speed 🙄
Rule 1 you can’t go to the actual games post and talk bad about it even if it is in a constructive non harmful way.
Rule 2 on the actual games post, you are allowed to comment things unrelated to the game if and only if it is making fun of another console brand.
Rule 3 if people are sick of hearing it, it needs to stop unless it is making fun of another console brand then it is completely relevant and you might even get some thumbs up.
Rule 4 by no means are you entitled to your opinion that others might agree with and choose to engage in conversation, cause those that don’t agree do not have the ability to skip past your post and comment with others that agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful and remember the best way to have others forgive you is say things about the ABK deal or use the word monopoly in articles that it don’t pertain to. You can thank me later friend HAHAHA
@Joker1234 I agree, and yet I'm hesitant because the next mass market pop culture phenomenon that that masses uniformly and predictably are corralled into for endless profit milking could be something even more insipid. Humans can't seem to handle more than two pop culture themes at a time.
@Green-Bandit LOL, you're totally right, I forgot all about the rules of Internet. "I bet Phil Spencer will play FFXVI while crying about his monopoly being blocked even though it's a crummy action adventure abusing the name of a legendary RPG series" Did I do it right?
@NEStalgia for a first attempt i will say you did decent. I think you will be back to following the rules of the forms in no time. As for me being an accountant i am just glad i didn’t go to the UK for learning math. See that was an example of what not to say. As an accountant any company with more money than the another company has no right to purchase a company that’s for sale to use on platforms that currently didn’t offer the products. That is the example you can learn from. This is my last free lesson of the day, check back tomorrow for one more free example and then the other examples will be charged in the form of micro transactions, meaning you can pay for what you want and complain for what you was never going to spend your money on. HHAHA
@NEStalgia Why does action combat preclude from being an RPG? Maybe I’ve missed something, but won’t this still have stats behind everything?
I think that’s a fine change, it doesn’t change it being an RPG, it just changed the way the RPG combat works.
I agree with them. I absolutely despise FFXII gambit system where the most effective way of playing the game is be not controlling anyone by using gambits. I buy a game to play it.
Also the waiting periods in the ATB FF's always felt like a waste of time for me.
Either give me a tutn-based game where I can strategize and plan all of my party actions or give me an action game where I control the character.
@Green-Bandit Pleaaaaaaase sell me the examples as NFTs!
@Jaz007 It doesn't. This always becomes a sticking point whenever this game/series is discussed because whenever someone critizises the action-adventure direction of the game vs RPGs, people automatically assume it's a statement that it's about turn-based vs action.
Just a quick list of games that are actual ARPGs: Diablo, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, (Fallout is a bit of an outlier, as 3 and prior was really turn-based, 4 tries to hide the turn based aspect), Ys, Tales of, Like a Dragon (before 7) & Judgment, and so on.
All of these are ARPG/Action RPG series, and whether an action vs turn based does not affect whether it's an RPG or not, we definitely agree completely there, and I've stated that frequently when the topic comes up.
But what action-RPGs all still have in common is a form of character progression as opposed to player skill progression, and ultimately, still a math-based system where the character abilities and equipment change base stats that under the hood determine the capabilities of the characters in combat. The foundation of the RPG is still the player building up a character that is inherently stronger or weaker, and the gameplay revolves around strategically building the character, playing the math game. That's the appeal and hook of the RPG in general.
Nothing we have seen so far about this game indicates that's the design here. It seems purely based on player combat skill progression. While equipment modifies things, it's ultimately a reflex game, not a math game that is being played which runs contrary to everything that differentiates an RPG vs an action game. The fundamental foundation of if the gameplay involves being more skilled at action, or if the gameplay involves making intelligent character build choices.
As Diablo IV is getting reviewed now is in a lot of ways a great time to talk about the differences, as that's maybe the poster child of everything that defines the modern ARPG, loot-based or otherwise, And everything that FFXVI is not demonstrating similarity to. Not that, say, Tales of and Diablo are that similar, as one is loot based and one is not, but you can see the similar foundational gameplay loop of character strength improving through character build choices rather than player skill/reflex skill. It's a wholly different genre that revolves around a very different gameplay concept.
Now, we haven't played the game yet, but from what they have showed us, this game revolves entirely around the skill/reflex development instead of through a character progression system focusing on build capabilities. Different mindsets and player bases entirely.
@KaijuKaiser See, this has become a new thing, if a game shoehorns a "skill tree" that resembles systems used by RPGs as a method of progress-gating unlocks, people start calling it an RPG. That's a TOTALLY different design ethos, and a completely different game loop. GoW is not an RPG. It sticks in XP and a skill tree, which as become meme-level oversaturated in games, but what it's doing isn't an RPG-like character build loop, it's just a replacement for progression-gating that "feels" more interactive. Personally? I think GoW would be better removing that "AAA checklist" skill tree. It doesn't need it. It doesn't benefit from it. It's a somewhat artificial interactive element to an otherwise conventional gradual unlock. But...that's another topic.
Nioh is the poster child of player skill based progression over character build progression. It's perfect dodge or die: the game. It's the very definition of an action game, alongside DMC, Bayonetta, and potentially this.
@KaijuKaiser He has a habit of foaming at the mouth when it comes to hating on FF16. Doesn't it have to be for everyone no, are some people not going to be happy sure. He takes it on a different lvl and every post on FF16 about his disdain for it.
@KaijuKaiser @NEStalgia I can't wait for Final Fantasy XVII to come out and be a match-3 puzzler so you two can join forces 👊
@Markatron84 LOL, that's basically the TL;DR right there
I think they entire discourse would be so different toward this game had they merely implemented a hybrid battle pass system like the remake and dragon age.
Although I suspect the combat in its current form doesn't have enough depth to justify pausing to issue commands, but even then, you could have had it an option for combat and item using. In my opinion it's a far less ridiculous way to tailor difficulty than rings that basically Automate combat for an already simple dmc combat system and gear system.
None of that really touches on the move from full on rpg to whatever this ends up truly being. So, I suppose the simplistic combat aligns with the simplification overall.
The big problem may lie in them trying to keep a massive rpg runtime for a game they simplified into a semi linear action game. The allure of rpgs is exploration, gear, choice, and customization. The risk with this is that the systems will grow stale, drawn out, and repetitive over it's long run time. It may be that they should have made this a 15 hour main story affair to match the simplified systems, either that or at least have kept a full gear system and deeper skill trees.
@KaijuKaiser
You're calling gatekeeper, and trying to belittle someone else's opinion?
@NEStalgia i strongly Second God of War needs to do away with the “RPG” lite stat’s. Mostly cause it’s not well designed and cumbersome. Especially in the 2018 reboot. Not much better in the sequel. To me it’s an action/Adventure game. One of my favorite games on PS hands down. So this isn’t to say i don’t like the game. I just dislike the skill tree.
@KaijuKaiser I'm excited for 16 I'm also excited to see where the ff7 remake will do and go i know they updated the combat system so the ai can do more I do get there u coming from.
Here we go again with what is a rpg or what is not final fantasy is and will always be rpg.
It's interesting because I usually prefer turn based combat and was over the moon when it was announced the mainline Yakuza would go in that direction. I haven't played any FF games up until recently when i started FF15. I weirdly enjoyed the combat so I feel like I'll get on with FF16 just fine.
I am thinking about playing FF7 Remake - should i? or should I wait until after I beat FF16?
@KaijuKaiser Might buy SF6 as it comes out on my birthday!
@KaijuKaiser
It's clear that FF has a long history of being mostly turn based.
It's also clear that Square Enix lost their way following Sakaguchi leaving, and have been chasing trends since then to try and catch up to them instead of driving them.
The person is expressing their opinion, regarding a good background of the games being a certain stylist choice that lasted for a long time.
The people behind it have chosen to deviate from that to get widespread sales and emulate western games.
What is wrong with disagreeing with that and also thinking it's a wrong direction for the game series?
Final Fantasy had always been about changing up the battles. I don't really like the new generation chasing but FF7R had great combat so I'll give it a shot. At least with Yoshida running things it won't be an unfinished mess, so it will still be a great game even if it deviates a lot.
@Pat_trick
The ATB was arguably the most strategic combat system the series ever had.
Many of Final Fantasy’s best boss fights were built around the intricacies of the ATB system combined with their unique counter moves to your actions.
The fight against Ruby Weapon in FFVII was one of the best boss fights in the entire series. It required intimate knowledge of his main pattern, his deviation routes based on your party’s condition and actions, and knowing how to use the ATB to your advantage.
Same for Shinryuu in FFV.
@feral1975
They relegated turn based combat to Dragon Quest and took Final Fantasy down a more experimental road with its various combat systems following the Square and Enix merger.
I think it was the right decision to make. As much as I loved the ATB system in other games in the franchise and I think it’s still the best combat system they have had up to this point, they couldn’t just keep recycling it for every game.
I mean weirdly enough the ATB system was developed specifically to give Final Fantasy a more action oriented feel to the combat rather than the stat based Dragon Quest one at a time system that FFI-III used. So even back then Sakaguchi was slowly turning the series into more action heavy combat than its competitors in the JRPG genre.
I think FFVII Remake’s combat system was absolutely genius and it was the perfect marriage between the old ATB system, FFXIII’s combat loop with the stagger mechanic, and FFXV’s real time action system for primary actions. Once you got in the groove of managing all three of your characters it became absolutely stellar and the low level bosses were as fun to fight as most game’s final bosses because of it.
@Jaz007
I mean hell one Square’s best RPGs they ever made was an action RPG.
Secret of Mana.
@Joker1234
I mean to be fair a lot of JRPGs are so anime infused that it almost hurts. Like look at Fire Emblem these days.
And I say that as a guy who loves both anime and JRPGs to my very core. But the simple truth is that the anime feel JRPGs do the same thing as the developers who are trying to turn their games into the next Game of Thrones season.
@OrtadragoonX I wasn't the biggest fan of the art direction of Fire Emblem Engage but I would still take something like Fire Emblem over the same Game of Thrones/Witcher style of RPG that we see today.
@Joker1234
I think it depends on the subject matter of the game.
FFXVI’s story is apparently really dark and ultra violent. The western Witcher look goes well with a story like that.
Plus it still has some of that classic Japanese flair with the character models. It’s anime inspired in that regard.
Absolutely should have had a hybrid system. Listening to the loud minority doesn't go well. listen to the long time fans
@C25CLOUD Yeah I already have FF16 pre-ordered. I won't be playing for awhile though, due to me wanting to work on my backlog a little bit first.
At least I'll have the benefits of several months' worth of patches by then.
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