Pre-Order Returnal on PS5 to Unlock These In-Game Costumes

From what I've seen of it, I'm not sure about this game.

Looks nice. But $70 is a bit rich for me.

Renting it on GameFly instead (they started to put PS5 games). I can live without the extra costumes.

I'm currently playing through Hades, and that has become my new gold standard for the rogue-like genre. Returnal has a serious uphill battle to conquer if it wants to match that level of quality with a frankly idiotic $70 price tag.

70 euros for that game makes go for the buy it a few years down the road approach

Cannot help myself, but whatever she wear, she looks like "Sonya the Coach" from Boat Trip movie...

£70 pre-order for a few costumes.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is the least interesting preorder bonus ever, the costumes is kind of same, just with different colour. I miss playstation bonus theme like nier automata, god of war, and ghost of tshushima.

The game looks cool though

Oooph. Can't get ahold of a PS5 due to scalpers and the link to Amazon with £70 at the end means I predict this game won't even make it into the top 5 for the month. Will be lucky to make top 10. Shame, I really like Housemarque and Resogun especially.

Can you people here shut the hell up about this game being 70$ already. God if you can’t afford games at a 70$ price point than you shouldn’t be gaming period.

everyone bemused by the £70 price tag, absolutely ridiculous price. suddenly everyone needs to sell their games at £70, do me a favour, this is the same price as watching a blockbuster movie at the cinema every week for 3 months (£5 a pop)

@4kgk2 telling anyone to shut up for discussing the price is a bit rude isn't it, if you can't have a discussion and amicably disagree then maybe you should be the one to shut up? the argument isn't affordability it's not even value for money, it's simply about setting a reasonable price and most agree £70 is not

Ridiculous pricing of £69. If anything the price will more or less drop after a month or so. The game does look pretty sweet so far.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi you don’t know how much it cost to make these new games. so 70$/£70 might be the reasonable price point for these gaming companies to break even with their games this gen with the ever rising development cost.

@4kgk2 why should we? It's not about being able to afford it, it's because the price isn't justified. It's actually more like $95 for a lot of us too.

Also, can you show where you get your info on them not even breaking even? As far as I can see the industry is making more money than it ever has.

@4kgk2 What a weird comment. Myself, and many others, can fortunately make that critical distinction between being able to afford something, and whether said thing represents fair value for money.

Only young children can't do that.

Sony aren’t going to entice many to drop £70 with these

So what if its £70. No-one is forced to buy it at launch or digital. If it bothers you, relax, wait for it to get cheaper. I didn't pay full RRP for any PS5 game when I got mine. All the stores had games cheaper at launch. All this angst is pointless. Such millennials. Atari 2600 games were 30-40 quid in the 70's.

Pre-order now to get outfit with yellow on limbs or outfit with yellow on torso and pelvis.

Truly riveting options.

@ShiningStar I’m just tried of seeing people complaining about video games prices. if you can’t afford something or think something isn’t worth it’s set retail value than don’t buy it simple as that. I want a Ferrari but I don’t make a enough money at my job to be able to afford one. I don’t go around the internet complaining about Ferrari prices like you do with video games prices.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Still Everybody talks and runs too the store too pay €70 for the yearly update of FIFA, NBA2K, Madden that is the golden standard. Ubisoft games are €59,99 but the gold edition is €90. I think its kinda ridiculous too talk bad about a full game no DLC, no MT no other crap for €70. 🤪

@wiiware Good, the pre order bonus should be boring and uninteresting.

@Old-Red Its a bit crappy too talk as if every company is the same in the industry. R* had made two games filled too the brim with MT's this is a full game no other stuff in it so i think its quite reasonable im buying it day one. 😁👍

I guess people want too see the free to play route mobile games on your PS5 all the Ubisoft games have so much ads about their MT in the main game im almost baffled its not a mobile game.

@Nepp67 couldn't agree more. Anyone who 'misses' good pre-order bonus has been brainwashed by the industry. Pre-order bonuses, especially store specific ones are a joke and reinforce FOMO anxiety in people.

That’s a NO from me dog

Yes so I see it's not only digital which means it's a matter of time for the game to be way cheaper.
I dont think price is an issue if it's just about waiting for when the price is right for you.
Reminds me of The Order 1886 people were not happy about.

@hypnotoad IMHO it looks like Warframe gunplay but roguelike.
And 70 USD for that is just too much.

Pre order bonus should be locking in a PS5 order.

Most I know are waiting on reviews, they are on a budget and £70 seems to much for them for also new ip.
I think most gamers I know will pay for HZD2, Ratchet and Clank, GOW at £70.
But this game no. Anyway look at the other new ip GODFALL now £37 already.
Anyway I don’t think Sony are banking to much on large sales as you can’t either buy the console at the minute.

@4kgk2 rising development costs is a complete myth, the only time costs rise is when development is badly managed or they decide to make much more content than is actually required, there are plenty of games that end up being too long

@Hyperluminal Exactly, pre order bonuses are just an awful practice and are only made to pressure you into pre ordering the game.

@pip_muzz Good point that the lack of PS5’s out in the wild is going to spell doom for this game, I’m afraid. People are already a little reluctant to pay the high price for a Housemarque new and unknown IP, and couple that with people like myself who are quite interested in the game and one of my top 5 anticipated games for 2021, but I’m simply not buying it without being able to first at least own a PS5. I wonder how many people like me are out there.

@Th3solution there are nearly 5 million PS5s sold worldwide. Thats a huge number for a console launch. Sony released the game expecting their consoles to be sold out. They also know when and how many new consoles will be made available. No way have Sony released this game just after PS5 launch worrying about there not being enough people with PS5s to play it so it may affect sales. That doesn't make sense. I agree the price may put people off buying at launch and that will have an affect that Sony may feel the backlash off, but sales affected by the number of consoles out in the wild clearly is something they would've considered and factored in.

@pip_muzz

But... if you was able to purchase a PS5 (like tonight) you would pre-order this game ?

@funkyplasma No I wouldn't pre order even if I received a PS5 overnight, as even after having a PS5 I still wouldn't pay £70 for it. The double impact of a PS5 shortage and a very aggressive pricing strategy by Sony is why I don't think this will sell well. If I had a PS5 and it was £40 then yes, I'd buy it a day after release. (I never pre order)

@Cyrus29 @Bad-MuthaAdebisi @Hobbesyall @RBMango @Agramonte @hypnotoad Has anyone here played the game and knows the game's budget to support their reasoning why the game is not $70? I see a lot of nagging but I don't see reasons why.

Cause it ain't made by rockstar or naughty dog? cause it doesn't have metal gear solid name on it? Please. explain. anyone.

and yes. the pre order bonuses suck, but it's better that way. Doesn't motivate anyone

@Dezzy70 but why do you think ratchet is more valuable than returnal?

If You say because of the name, I hope you aren't complaning about apple's prices being too high.

@LiterallyDoNotCare I'm only going on by what I've seen so far.
I may well change my mind after its release.
I'm gonna wait and see...and so should you.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi really? Cause Shawn Layden and Jim Ryan would say otherwise. Maybe games NOW won't jump that much, but it certainly did. David Jaffe said a few thousands was a hit for their initial twisted metal games. Cost of life has rised up and games require more employees now.

@Th3solution Sony has to give reasons to buy the ps5. This is a long term thing. Since there aren't many next-gen options, people would choose more between the few games. Returnal and Kena are set up right. Before any of the bigger name games release, they would be the first priority in getting them.

By the time horizon comes out, at least 20m ps5 would be sold. Sony just has to grab 5m in 3 days and the game probably made its money back and funded the third game.

@hypnotoad Not saying it will be good, but good lord. The game could be 30 hours long for all we know. That's longer than tlou2, which many of here would have nooooo problem paying $70 for it.

If the game flops. Gets a 70 and sells poorly. SONY should just cut them out.

@Hyperluminal 5 million PS5's sold worldwide with 4 million in the hands of scalpers. Sony's sale figures are simply stock sold to retailers, it doesn't necessarily mean 5 million households have PS5's.

@pip_muzz that's an exaggeration. They were in the 100k from what I've heard

@LiterallyDoNotCare It's problematic for quite a few reasons.

1. It's an unproven IP. In my eyes, $70 is understandable for series that have proven high quality track records and don't pimp your wallet with microtransactions.
2. It's a combo of niche genres that have found success with lower pricing (Hades, Dead Cells, Furi, etc.) I can't think of a mainstream rogue-like/bullet hell game that was priced at $60 and made a lot of money. Please inform me if you can think of any examples.
3. It's facing A LOT of competition from similar well-received games in the genre, and the install base isn't there compared to other titles.
4. Housemarque aren't owned by Sony, and don't have the financial pillow to fall back on in case this flops. They had to put their battle royale game on ice to make Returnal, so I assume they're hoping for success.
5. This is coming at a time where the base $70 price tag is still something new, and it can potentially turn a lot of people away who were going to give this game a chance if priced correctly. It boggles my mind why this couldn't have been one of their $50 games. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I might deem Returnal worthy of $70 when I finally get my hands on it. It looks fun. But, I'm not making points to expand upon my perspective and those who are die-hard PlayStation loyalists. I'm talking about the perception of the average customer, and, I guarantee you, most of them won't want to part ways with their $70 for an unproven IP featuring a blend of niche genres when other, more mainstream games with lower pricing might come out this year. And even fans of the rogue-like and bullet hell genres might find much better options at way lower prices on more easily available systems.

@LiterallyDoNotCare It's a definite exaggeration I'll confess. But the point of Sony's sales figures not conflating with the actual home ownership of PS5's stands. Earlier today Push Square posted an article about scalpers cleaning out a stock of PS5's from game. These are technically sales according to Sony but not in the hands of gamers. That's my point. It's not 4 million in scalpers hands but it is a significant number.

@pip_muzz hmm it will be interesting to see how Sony react if this game performs poor on sales on both retail and digital, but after the success of demon souls at that price point it might take a few other launch titles to perform poorly due to high launch price before they rethink £70 pricing , i myself did purchase the digital console, also i stocked up on shopto psn discounted vouchers which would give me a 12% discount but i have been burned on pre-orders once too many so i will also wait for reviews and maybe 1 month after release for patches and its first discount before purchasing.

@pip_muzz I agree that sony and ms handled the scalper situation badly.

@pip_muzz I'm slapping my forehead at what you've just said. You have absolutely no idea whatsoever about what you've just said. 4 million PS5s in the hands of scalpers, jesus wept.. even scalpers have got hold of PS5s in undesirable numbers, idiots have still bought them. Dont say its a significant number as if you know because you don't. You may feel like it is because of the coverage but..you ..do.. not ..know.

So for your point to make sense there would have to be millions of PS5s still in the hands of scalpers which they've failed to sell....which begs the question why are scalpers still buying as much stock as possible when it come in? 🤣🤣🤣 they must be mental 🤣🤣🤣 thanks for the laugh.

@funkyplasma I feel bad for demon souls remake. Should've been top 20 best sold games of the year but people just like games play for them. It's not because it's a remake, because re2 remake and ff7 remake did wonders (even if they are completely new compared to ds (demon souls, not dark souls or death stranding)

I don't usually wait for reviews to Pre-Order existing PS exclusive but I'll wait for this one. I learned my lesson with Days Gone but tbh I cannot wait to play this game.

Games prices haven't increased in 15 years. I'm fine with the new price as long as the game justify it.

@LiterallyDoNotCare Demons Souls sold only a couple of hundred fewer copies than Spider-Man on PS5 in the first week so don't worry about DS, its doing well. Considering its a much less recognisable franchise to Spider-Man its a great achievement.

If the last couple years have taught us anything, it should have been that preordering games is foolish.

@RBMango

1. How is it unproven if it hasn't come out? Weren't ghost, spider-man, death stranding and horizon unproven before they came out? It's sony. It won't have mtx.
2. How can I prove it to you, if nobody has tried to sell rogue like genre at triple A level? Those indie games don't have the nextgen graphics to grab people anyways.
3. There isn't any competition. People already bought their annual cod and sports game and bought spidey and demon souls. I've seen people say it's dry right now. It's PERFECT to release it now where the thunder ain't being stolen. Don't exclusives sell consoles?
4. Exactly. They trust them.
5. I agree
6. I added this to the last paragraph. There are other options, but they ain't triple A. Again, New ips don't start selling in their second games. Lots and lots of new ips sold well or more than well.

Posted at 1pm 53 comments later.... Are $70 exclusives the new Naughty Dog/TLou Part 2 conversation... If GodFall tought us anything wait 3 weeks and it will be down to $40

@DiddyWahDiddy True. I'm pre-ordering games when reviews are out from now on.

I like to bet myself the game will be good and so far I landed all of them, but I pre-ordered c2077 and I'm so glad I got the refund before anything of this happened, but it could've been a bad pre-order for me. I even held back because there were no consoles raw footage or reviews. God I'm glad I trusted my instints.

Is The Callisto Protocol worth $70? Asking for a friend.

Would Bioshock 4 be worth $70? Same friend

@LiterallyDoNotCare
Is Fifa 22 worth $70
Is Resident Evil Village worth $70

I preorded the deluxe edition, I'm not going to let a tenner stop my playing what looks like a great game.

@Gaming365247 No (recycled) and Yes.

Sweeet! I'll take whatever goodies I can get from my pre-order

@RBMango This is the most correct thing written on the internet as of right now.

Tired of people crying about the price of games. If the sales figures aren't met than the price will fall.

Why cry about something that by its very nature is self correcting?

Hi there fellow gamers.
Again with the price tag???
Here´s the thing:
1- Games cost money.
2- People haven´t played the game, so all we can do is wait for more videos and for the reviews.
3- It´s Housemarque. A videogame company that as clearly proved themselves in terms of fun, engaging arcade gameplay mechanics.
4- It´s a Brand New, Next Gen, PS5 exclusive IP.
Shouldn´t gamers be excited for something new and cool?
I know I am.
Same way I´m excited for a brand new title called The Medium, launching on Xbox Series X/S and PC.
New hardware, new games for us to enjoy. And sequels to our favourite franchises as well.
Just my two cents on the matter.
Cheers, stay safe and happy gaming to us all

@LiterallyDoNotCare
Because of the name and history of the game franchise. It’s not my own opinion.
Just when I talk to other PS gamers and they mention cost of new games like a Returnal or new ip.
I think if gamers like an existing ip with previous outings like HZD, GOW, Uncharted etc they seem more willing to part with £70.
Or if a new ip like Ghost of T is an instant classic.
I understand what they saying if they are on a budget, £70 just makes people more cautious.

@Dezzy70 That's my point. Just because of the name it's a bad reason to say ratchet it worth the 70. If tlou 3 was 4 hours long, is it worth more than horizon?

But that's the thing. This could be the next Ghost or Horizon.

This game looks great, and I have mad respect for Housemarque, but it's going to bomb hard. $70 pricetag and no PS5 availability will kill it before it even leaves the starting gates. It's a shame for Housemarque, they deserve better.

Just have to train myself to not buy games at release any more. If I lag 3 months behind all releases, I'll get games for around the $50 that I prefer to spend. Will still build a backlog, it will just take a little time up front. There will be a few that I will probably not be able to wait on though (GT7 and Horizon)

@LiterallyDoNotCare
This is true, just gamers being cautious.
For me I would wait for reviews and game length.
But when HZD2 goes up for preorder I will probably preorder. As I so enjoyed the first one and I’m 99% confident I know what I’m getting, more of the same, plus a bit more. I mean game taste also comes into it I guess.

@LiterallyDoNotCare 1. Spider-Man definitely isn't unproven. That was going to make money on brand name alone. HZD and Ghost had major marketing, lots of pre-release buzz, and a much more mainstream genres backing them up. Death Stranding also had the heavy clout of Kojima's name behind it. Those were guaranteed to succeed based on those factors. Returnal has none of those things. The marketing for it has been scattershot (at best), and Sony has done a poor job trying to showcase this game to those who don't already know who Housemarque is and what kind of game it is.

2. If this is anyone's first effort to sell a major, lavishly produced AAA rogue-like, then throwing it out in the deep end at a $70 price point is not going to work. The genre at that scale should be eased in that kind of price range. Like I said, I think $50 is much more reasonable, and if it succeeds and is great, it will convince more people later on to give similar games a chance at $70.

3. Absolutely, exclusives sell consoles. But, again, Returnal is a complete unknown, and doesn't have the buzz of other new IP's like HZD and Death Stranding. In regards to competition, it has a lot of competition in the genres its tackling, and there are even some games in March that are going to be heavy-hitters. Housemarque is a really talented developer, but I don't think Sony is putting in the legwork as a publisher to get people's attention outside of the crowds are already fans of Housemarque's work and Sony's track record. A few short trailers, three Housecast episodes with low viewership, and some PS Blog articles aren't enough. Not for this kind of game at this price.

4. I'm unclear on your point. If Sony trusts Housemarque, then they're failing them with their marketing and pricing strategy. They're sending this poor game out to die like Concrete Genie. If Housemarque trusts Sony, then, again, maybe that trust was poorly placed based on this. I feel especially bad for them if this is some kind of test to see if Sony would want to purchase Housemarque. They're setting that studio up to fail if that's the case.

Another thing I'll say (in case that's been lost due to how critical I seem to be of this game) is that I want this game to sell a lot. I wish Sony had purchased Housemarque a long time ago. But, I'm very critical of this direction, because if Returnal fails and Housemarque gets dented again after the underwhelming sales of things like Alienation and Nex Machina, then they really will give up on the genres they're good at this time. That would be a great shame, and I'd put the blame squarely on Sony for that. Their battle royale was them throwing their hands up in the air and trying something much more mainstream, but they're almost going all-in on Returnal not only as a financial success but vindication of their company culture. And Sony are foolishly creating an uphill battle for them by not being smarter about marketing and pricing.

@Dezzy70 I agree. Be cautious, but don't jump to conclusions.

I won't pre-order a game for a system I don't own, If I did...I still wouldn't pre-order cause no game is worth $70 to me. I wouldn't pay that for a Uncharted 5 or Persona 6 OP edition. Returnal does look great though, I hope it succeeds and I will definitely end up platinum it.

@4kgk2 If you're tired of seeing people complain about game prices and advising people not to buy "simple as that", why do you bother to read their comments or take the time to comment on them?

Ignore them, 'simple as that' and spare us all your drama.

@RBMango 1. Spider-man was unproven. New developer, new publisher. Unproven, until it was not. So because something has a name, it should be priced more and not the product itself? ok. Could've been a bad game and the spiderman name wouldn't have saved it (avengers says hello)

Returnal is set for march. No where near launch to start marketing.Roguelike hasn't been done at triple A level. How do you know it's niche if it hasn't been done before? People don't buy hades because it looks like a high res gameboy game. Why smaller indie open world games don't sell if it has the winning genre formula?

A game is worth it because it has one director on it and not because the product itself? We're not talking about suceeding, lol. We're talking about the value of it. You don't know if Returnal has any of those things. This is their FIRST attempt at a triple A game.

You repeat the same thing again.

2. They're doing the exact same thing as they would with gow or ratchet. Was ratchet on game awards? d. all stars? Only Returnal was there. why? Since game awards, which game has received more gameplay trailers? You can't put a price on it before it releases. That's what SONY thinks.

3. Like I said. The new ips I mentioned were unknown. Witcher was unknown until... well, witcher 3. It doesn't have the buzz but it CAN have it. How did these big name games and publishers got buzz? The same way Housemarque is trying to do it.

Yisus man. You're so blinded by brands, names and publishers. It's why people make bad pre orders. You can't hold it because it has that franchise name you love. The way you think, no unknown developer would reach the heights of Rockstar or Remedy because you would always put them lower by default.

No. It doesn't have competition. A bunch of gameboy looking indie games? They're call indies for a reason. What's on march? Kena? Another no big name game? Ain't that the same situation?

Just wait a bit more. They are still 2 months to promote it. A few short trailers is what every sony games get lol. Ghost had low viewership too and that was late in the gen.

4. You bring up the same point. See above. Concrete Genie would've have never been at the game awards. It wasn't. Yes. I hope they sell, but people like you aren't helping AT ALL. Telling your friends it ain't worth it before any of you played it.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi I am curious, do you work for a game development company?

@LiterallyDoNotCare you think that those that sell games aren't going to push an agenda that creates a perception of vastly increased costs, of course they are. games don't require more people, they require less, it depends how much game and how quickly you want it released, No Man's Sky was started with 4 people and then expanded to a whopping 12 people

@Flaming_Kaiser but R* didn't try to charge me $95 and I got over 400 hours out of red dead 2. Not the best example for your argument.

@LiterallyDoNotCare Forgive the massive essay, everyone.

PART 1

“Spider-man was unproven. New developer, new publisher. Unproven, until it was not. So because something has a name, it should be priced more and not the product itself? ok. Could've been a bad game and the spiderman name wouldn't have saved it (avengers says hello)”

Spider-Man is a proven IP from a marketing and public perception standpoint. I’m not talking about post-launch reception. I’m talking about pre-release perception. Spider-Man was backed by a publisher with a proven track record for high quality single-player games and a developer famous for its emphasis on outlandish combat and good comedic writing. That’s an entirely different scenario compared to the rocky road Avengers faced before and after launch thanks to its business and marketing decisions. Also, neither Spider-Man’s nor Avengers’ base price was $70.

“Returnal is set for march. No where near launch to start marketing.Roguelike hasn't been done at triple A level. How do you know it's niche if it hasn't been done before? People don't buy hades because it looks like a high res gameboy game. Why smaller indie open world games don't sell if it has the winning genre formula?”

I never said Returnal was never going to get a marketing push closer to launch. What I’m saying is that the game has had a hard time breaking into the larger gaming zeitgeist, and Sony slapping the $70 price tag isn’t going to do it any favors. I’ll keep repeating that point, because that’s what we’re debating. Also, niche literally means a specific subset. That perfectly describes rogue-like and bullet hell games. That doesn’t mean they’re unpopular or don’t make money. But, if they want to have a chance of breaking into the mainstream, publishers and developers need to be smarter about how they do it. Nier Automata has bullet hell sections, and that was a surprise hit for Square Enix. Also, I really don’t understand your last two sentences. What point are you making with the Hades comparison? What smaller indie open-world games are you specifically referring to?

@LiterallyDoNotCare PART 2

“A game is worth it because it has one director on it and not because the product itself? We're not talking about suceeding, lol. We're talking about the value of it. You don't know if Returnal has any of those things. This is their FIRST attempt at a triple A game.”

We’re not talking about product worth. We’re talking about the logic of pricing games a specific way or another. Death Stranding being priced at $60 (again, $10 less than Returnal) makes sense because of Kojima’s clout behind it. They can realistically get away with something like that. It’s entirely subjective if Death Stranding is worth $60, but the marketing logic behind it is solid. Returnal quite literally and objectively doesn’t have major mainstream attention, brand name, or director clout behind it. It might AFTER launch, but we’re not talking about that.

“ 2. They're doing the exact same thing as they would with gow or ratchet. Was ratchet on game awards? d. all stars? Only Returnal was there. why? Since game awards, which game has received more gameplay trailers? You can't put a price on it before it releases. That's what SONY thinks.”

What? Ratchet and Clank is a known IP, and Destruction All-Stars has the fallback pillow of being free for two months on PS Plus after launch. That’s why Sony put Returnal there. Because they know an unproven IP like that needs more attention. And then they deflated quite a bit of that medium-sized impact from the trailer by revealing the price to $70. Not a good look at all.

“3. Like I said. The new ips I mentioned were unknown. Witcher was unknown until... well, witcher 3. It doesn't have the buzz but it CAN have it. How did these big name games and publishers got buzz? The same way Housemarque is trying to do it.”

Witcher was not unknown until Witcher 3, and that’s another one that had favorable pre-release factors to it. The buzz for that game was nuts years before it came out, and a genre like open-world action RPG plays a lot more to mainstream attention. That’s a major case of apples and oranges.

“Yisus man. You're so blinded by brands, names and publishers. It's why people make bad pre orders. You can't hold it because it has that franchise name you love. The way you think, no unknown developer would reach the heights of Rockstar or Remedy because you would always put them lower by default.”

You’re making quite an assumption out of me analyzing the marketing and release strategies behind Returnal. I love both PlayStation and Housemarque (a lot more than Remedy, to be honest), and all I’m doing is revealing my own thoughts on a potentially damning roll-out for this game. Could I be wrong? Maybe. I hope so. But based on a lot of opinions I’ve heard and read, I don’t think I’m wrong in criticizing Sony for the $70 price tag. My criticism comes from a desire to see this game do the very best it can.

@LiterallyDoNotCare PART 3

“No. It doesn't have competition. A bunch of gameboy looking indie games? They're call indies for a reason. What's on march? Kena? Another no big name game? Ain't that the same situation?”

Monster Hunter Rise is a big one for starters. Yakuza 7 isn’t as big, but that’s releasing on PS5 and it’s a massive time sink for $60. Like it or not, Returnal has competition from multiple angles. And the optics of it being priced at $70 compared to most of the other ones at $60 do it no favors at all.

“Just wait a bit more. They are still 2 months to promote it. A few short trailers is what every sony games get lol. Ghost had low viewership too and that was late in the gen.”

If Sony was smart, they would release a demo for it before launch. That would be an excellent way to get people onboard with the game, and maybe convince them the extra $10 is worth it. If the trailers now haven’t won people over to it, I have some doubts some new ones will during the two months before launch. Again, I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I will be.

@Jarobusa mind your own business, I assume that you ask this because clearly if I say no then my opinion is invalid 😂 besides it's the publishers that usually set prices, I have no idea and don't care who has set the price in this case; Sony the Publisher or otherwise, it's too much, perfectly happy to buy it on sale, I don't care what the price is, I'll pay what I want, everyone defending the price in my eyes is a very peculiar person, enjoy the battle

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Nobody does that. The numbers are out there

@LiterallyDoNotCare the numbers are out there? this isn't the X files

@RBMango spidey was safe proof to sell. Not $60 worth proofed. That comes AFTER you play the game.

How the hell you gonna know a game is worth $60 pre release? That comes AFTER you play the game

Housemarque is a quality studio too lol. Their highest score game is higher than sucker punch and insomnaic highest scored game of this gen. Ever actually. You can judge if they are on the same level AFTER you play the game.

But avengers is proven as much as spiderman was pre release lol. Crystal dynamics last game was an 88. Higher than spiderman. But crystal dynamics name and the avengers brand didn't make the game's price worth it right? Because people knew AFTER they played the game that it was not worth it.

Dude. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SALES!!! ofc it won't sell as much because it's not an established ip, open world filled game. We are talking about if the game is worth the full price. You will know that, AFTER you play the game.

That hades is no competition for Returnal. Returnal will slaughter that game's sales. You know why it isn't on xbox or ps4? Cause it doesn't sell because nobody buys indies that look like mobile games (sorry). You can't compare Hades sales to Returnal. Returnal is a triple A game. Returnal can push the genre forward into mainstream. Is Diablo niche? The genre is niche because nobody tried to pushed it. Might sell so insanely good because it's something fresh. You never know. Well, you will. After you play the game.

Exactly. Nier Automata did it. Why can't Returnal? Guess we have to play the game.

Just because it has Kojima, it doesnt mean it is worth the $60. Sorry. Fanboyism blindness syndrome. The it is worth the $60 BEFORE playing the game syndrome.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi go look dev team size now and then. please stop being so ignorant.

@RBMango I am not making an assumption. You are clearly blind by brands and names. Bought a google phone for $300 and it's as good (ram and it has more freedom and features the other removed) as a $1k samsung or iphone, but people buy those 2 because of brand blindness.

Monster Hunter Rise and Yakuza don't have the budget or graphics as good as Returnal has. You don't know if Returnal is a time sink. Nobody knows. Why people in this site think they have a sauron eye?

a demo is a GREAT idea actually.

I apologize for being anal. I am excited for the game because we need that alien game (guess mass effect feel) void to be filled.

@LiterallyDoNotCare it's not ignorance it's just opinion, video game prices are often priced to squeeze every last penny out of every consumer, I will though ignore you, thank you and goodbye

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi dev sizes it's not an opinion. It's a number.

This pre-order put me off to even ever getting the game. Lame lol

@LiterallyDoNotCare I can see this is going to go nowhere other than in circles. You asked to explain the reasoning, and I did. We'll find out who is right and wrong come a few months after launch. I just hope Returnal is great, and that it gets the sales to keep Housemarque financially afloat and justify their push to keep developing arcade-like gameplay.

Also

"You know why it isn't on xbox or ps4? Cause it doesn't sell because nobody buys indies."

Hades has sold over 1 million copies since it launched in early access back in December 2018, and that's without being on the PS4 and XB1. Dead Cells has sold over 3.5 million. I think Returnal could learn a thing or two from the development, marketing, and release strategies of those games. Unproven IP's smartly budgeted and marketed. Something Returnal desperately needs instead of a $70 price tag.

@RBMango but I haven't said the game will be worth it or not. You say it is not worth it . I just said you are wrong for assuming that and jumping to conclusions. I am not picking a side.

They have tried the indie way. It failed. They are going triple A now and that's not an option those 2 other indie devs have.

@Hyperluminal “there are nearly 5 million PS5s sold worldwide.... No way have Sony released this game just after PS5 launch worrying about there not being enough people with PS5s to play it so it may affect sales. That doesn't make sense.... sales affected by the number of consoles out in the wild clearly is something they would've considered and factored in.”

I’m not a business expert by any stretch and would never claim to be. I certainly hope the game does well. As noted, of the PS5’s “sold” only a portion of them are in the hands of potential game buyers. Whether they be stuck with the scalpers, or sitting on a shelf with someone who paid $1000 (a quick eBay search shows this to be the average going rate) and so has given $500 extra to scalpers instead of to Housemarque, Sony, Ubisoft, etc. That’s about 8-10 games not bought with that money. Perhaps everyone who paid $1000 for their PS5 feels perfectly comfortable and financially stable to drop another $70 on Returnal. I surmise that many have spread themselves pretty thin and ate into the gaming budget by buying from scalpers. Will the games sales figures be adversely affected by the cluster that is the PS5 launch? I don’t know. You say no. I say there is no way that the game sells as many as it would have otherwise. I know this because I am one of them who won’t be buying Returnal, and not for lack of wanting it. And like I say... for every PS5 sitting on eBay or a PS5 sitting in a home that had to dip into their software budget to pay over retail for the console l, that’s a potential copy of the game not sold. If the game sells well then it’ll be no big deal, which is what I hope, for Housemarque’s sake.

@Nepp67 I'm okay with good preorder bonus as long as the game reviewed before it launch, so we didn't buy it blindly. Or if psn has refund feature.

After Fallout 76, Anthem, Cyberpunk, etc. if you people still pre-order games, than you deserve to be swindled...

@Th3solution you're making too many assumptions. All the figures you mention are guesses. In fact everything you've said is just how you feel about it. Just as easily as you say buying from scalpers has eaten into a what you assume to be limited budget, I could quite easily counter with if they can afford a PS5 at inflated cost from a scalper who's to say they don't have the means and will to freely pay £70 for a game (I know you acknowledge this as a possibility) After all, isn't it logical if you can afford to pay twice as much for a console that you had every intention of paying normal RRP but come launch day circumstances meant you had to quickly decide to pay double, the chances are you can afford a game at normally RRP.

I don't know any of this but my point is neither do you, but I'd say there's not enough PS5 consoles to make such a significant impact on sales of Returnal judging by what we've seen so far in the market. UK Week one Spider-Man and Demon Souls sold over 18,000 (physical) copies each, out of all PS5 owners in the region. Thats sounds low but its actually very good. If that's a good number I really don't think consoles in the hands of scalpers will be an issue in sales for Returnal.

@Th3solution 5 million PS5's sounds impressive, until you consider there are over 100 million PS4's out there! Agree with your point. It's going to be very hard for Returnal to do well with a $70 price tag and targeting only 1/20th of the ammount of machines. It's sad for Housemarque, but unless Sony paid them a huge set payment for sacrificing their customer base, this game might put them under.

@Hyperluminal Fair enough. I’m sure I am projecting my own frustration into the situation — because I’m torqued after relentlessly combing the internet for 2 months looking for a PS5 (I refuse to pay over retail).
Truth is, none of us really know, I suppose. Certainly my initial post that Returnal is doomed was hyperbole to make a point. The quality of the game looks too high. Like I say, I’m not anything close to a business guru, so in an effort to sound as empirical as possible and less histrionic, I did a little quick Google research (that makes me an expert now right? 😜) —

This is straight from the horse’s mouth — a quote from Housemarque a couple years ago:
“Despite critical success and numerous awards, our games just haven’t sold in significant numbers. While some of them have reached a massive audience due to free game offerings across various digital sales channels, this unfortunately doesn’t help pay for development, which gets costly for high production quality... We know from those numbers that quite a lot of people have played those games, but I think it's more that they don't want to pay for them. They expect to get them for free... Actually, Super Stardust HD sold more for PlayStation 3 [ten years ago], when it had a fraction of the owners that PlayStation 4 has now with Nex Machina. So maybe those people have just moved on. They are not active in the market any more... The core thing is that there's no paying audience for games like this. Or we can't reach them, and I don't know how those people can be reached if they haven't heard about our games [already]."

There is no clear sales numbers for Nex Machina on PS4, but the best info I could find was that Nex Machina sold roughly equal on PC as it did on PS4, and Steam numbers estimate 30,000 sales there on release with lifetime sales of maybe 50-100,000 copies worldwide. If those are the PS4 numbers too, that’s an extremely low attach rate for a console that has 110 million units out there. I’m sure your conclusion would be “See, the number of consoles out there didn’t help their games sell. There is no relation.” And my conclusion would be, “If there is 1 game sold per 2000 consoles, the game will benefit from more consoles.”

There are many interpretations one can draw from the numbers and none are going to be firm in the current unprecedented setting — global pandemic, massive economic instability, a launch period title in a scalper situation, an aggressive higher price tag for Returnal, a new IP and new genre for the company, etc, etc. So you’re correct — none of us know. Nevertheless, Housemarque executives sound extremely nervous about how poorly their games sell historically. So just to assume, “Eh, it’s going to sell fine because Miles Morales sold fine...” is probably misplaced optimism; just like assuming that it won’t sell is also based in prejudice. I think we’re all guilty of extrapolation into an unknown situation.

What I think will happen (again, don’t misconstrue this as anything more than what it is — a semi-ignorant PlayStation fan on the internet pontificating) is the game will perform under sales target at first, but will see decent long-term success over the life of the game once more people have a chance to buy it. I think the game will get a second wind 2-3 months after release once people like me can get their hands on a PS5 and likely after the game has a 10-20% price drop.

@LordSteev 5 million is HUGELY impressive for a console launch. And Sony are launching Returnal two months after PS5 was launched. Sony is fully aware that the install base will obviously affect sales, especially for a brand new I.P. from a developer who's never had a game sold at AAA prices. And yet they've still decided to do it. I don't know why everyone is worried about how many PS5s there are in people's homes. It won't be the factor that decides if the game does well, the price will.

@Hyperluminal
Respectfully, I disagree with you. If one out of 100 PS4 players buy a game, that's one million sales. If one out of 100 PS5 players buy a game, that's 50,000 sales. It's math.

@Th3solution I'm not saying it will do fine because Miles Morales sold well. Everything I've said is to do with console sales. I mentioned Spider-Man and Demon Souls to illustrate that if they are selling then it stands to reason that there are enough PS5s in play, not in the hand of scalpers, for any game released on PS5 to stand a chance of selling well. All I have been trying to demonstrate is that the problem with scalpers hoarding PS5s is not at a level so significant that it consistutes an appreciable percentage of them overall.

Everything else you've said I now agree with.

@LordSteev you are misunderstanding me though. Why are you comparing PS4 with PS5?

There are 5 million PS5s already sold. Thats a record amount for a Sony console launch. Sony planned to release Returnal 2 months after the console launch. Clearly they are not concerned with selling as many on PS5 as they could on PS4 for whatever reason, be it the demographic of console owners or they tastes, and yet thats what they've decided to do.

The trouble with this new generation is that games are being developed cross-gen. This wouldn't have been an issue before. Returnal is PS5 only just like how games used to be for new consoles when the launched. Nobody ever worried about launch game sales before. Launch games are always going to struggle for sales compared to games in eststablished consoles, but they are there to entice and attract people to the platform.

Sony's mistake isn't releasing it on PS5, its pricing it at £70. For a new I.P. thats a risk that will definitely affect sales, but then Miles Morales, which is a well-recognised franchise, is little more than expanded DLC and people still paid £70 for it.

@Hyperluminal
I have a sinking suspicion that when Sony made their initial release plans, they hadn't taken in to account how Covid would end up affecting everything from product availability to shipping container shortages in China. It's my hope that Sony is going to use Returnal as a loss-leader to provide new console owners something new and unique to help justify their purchase, since all of the initial release titles missed their initial release dates.

I hope Sony is willing to bear the initial financial hardship that this will undoubtedly cause Housemarque. Due to the current shortage of PS5's, each copy sold would have to make 20 times as much money as a PS4 release. If sony just threw Housemarque to the wolves and hasn't been able to manufacture the ammount of consoles they originally planned on, it looks like real bad news for Housemarque.

@LordSteev that I can totally agree with. I think thats exactly what any new IP in a console launch window is, a loss leader. Its there to draw attention to the PS5 and make it more attractive than the competition. (There is a shortage of PS5 stock but don't forget there's already a record-breaking number of them sold through to gamers.)

It just so happens that isn't too difficult because MS have taken to selling people the Emperor's New Clothes; a new console with nothing new to play on it. Somehow they've convinced people backward-compatibility is so desirable its the primary selling point.

PlayStation has been doing that since PS2 and it was nice but never a priority. I can't stand MS' approach. Robs us of all the excitement of years of waiting for new consoles and new games developed specifically for them. As for Game Pass, it gets mentioned so often like its so amazing, and admittedly at this moment in time as MS try to build the subscription base it is good value, but PSNow never gets mentioned and it is arguably as good. If only Sony offered it in more countries and perhaps tied PSPlus into it.

@Hyperluminal In the long run, I have real trouble seeing how Game Pass doesn't end up a complete failure. I just hope, in it's death throws, it doesn't drag down the over-all quality of games like I think it might.

I really like Housemarque, and I think they have the talent to become AAA. I just don't like how this situation looks like it's playing out for them. I'm hoping that maybe behind the scenes, if indeed Sony is using this as a loss-leader, that there's more benefit to Housemarque than is readily apparent. Maybe Sony plans to buy them and make them in-house. Or maybe Sony is helping to foot the cost of making Returnal. Because if not, I just don't see this shaking out well for Housemarque.

@LordSteev well reportedly Sony are in the market to buy development studios so maybe Housemarque and Blupoint are among them. I hope so, they've been so good for so long.

As for GP, I hope it fails if its going to be pushed as the primary way to play games. I really can't stand MS. Everything about them is cynical. They don't create anything, they absorb or appropriate. What they don't have they try to buy, they don't innovate. You'll never see them risk anything on cutting-edge gambles like PSVR. I swear PSVR was a highlight of my entire life. Imagine having a childhood dream realised, actually playing immersed inside the game environment. RE7 VR should be held up as pivotal a moment in time where VR showed it's the future. I've never been so scared in my life 😫

@Hyperluminal
You're talking to a guy who had 3 separate 'Red Ring of Death' incidents with 3 different xbox 360's, lol. My hate is real!

I've always thought for VR to become mainstream, someone's got to take a hit. For developers to invest more time to make better games on it, more people are going to have to have access to it. I think it's going to take something along the lines of "Playstation 6 VR!"

Some large producer of platforms is going to have to include it, quite possibly at a loss, for it to get in the hands of enough gamers so that more developers are forced to take it seriously.

I hope Sony does buy Blupoint and Housemarque. As much as I hate Microsoft, I love Bethesda. (not their recent online fumblings, but all their single player stuff, bugs included) If their games aren't going multiplatform, I'm going to be stuck buying an xbox just to play them. The definition of a system seller, I guess.

Sony should be looking for more of these. I'm still PS5 first, but I'll get an xbox, too. Sony needs to think about how they can get some xbox crossover people, too.

@LordSteev well I think Sony are going the right way about it. Encourage people to move over from MS by offering great games.

MS will always do well with the FIFA, COD ect crowd because they're brainwashed enough to throw money at recycled rubbish but I hope their business model implodes on them.

@Hyperluminal
I think what Sony doesn't have, and what a solid developer like Housemarque could give them, is a good, original first person shooter.

What I don't get about gamepass is, if everyone has access to everything, where's the incentive to make ANYTHING good?

@LordSteev there isn't any, but I won't go as far to say they wouldn't make anything objectively good. What I would say is that they'd have no desire to take any risks or provide anything new. We'd get fed a diet of what's most popular and what suits MS to present to us. I know its not a direct comparison but look at all the dross Netflix produces. That new Star Trek is so woke and happy-clappy i can't stand it.

@Hyperluminal
I don't think I'm woke, but I'm sleeping with one eye open. 😉

I pretty much only use my TV for sports and gaming now, lol.
I don't like any of my entertainment preaching at me, for sure.

Haven't caught any of the new Star Trek, and I don't really like many new shows, for the above mentioned reason.

@LordSteev don't blame you mate. It's all crap. Especially anything that comes from Disney.

@LiterallyDoNotCare Dont get the disrespect towards Housemarque either everyone is acting its some crappy studio.