Sony considered creating a lower specification, cheaper PlayStation 5 – but ultimately decided against it because the company recognised that “low-priced, reduced spec” consoles have “not had great results in the past”. The Xbox Series S represents the first time a manufacturer has launched a significantly less powerful next-gen console alongside a stronger one, although there have been cheap and cheerful hardware revisions, like the PSP E-1000 or the Wii Mini, for example.
Speaking with Japanese website AV Watch, as translated by VGC, boss Jim Ryan said the following: “The first thing I would like to say is that I respect every competitor’s decision and their philosophies. Clearly, price is a very important factor. We respect other companies’ competitive strategies. However, we are fully committed to and believe in our current strategy and the effect it will have.”
He continued: “One thing that can be said is that if you look at the history of the game business, creating a special low priced, reduced spec console is something that has not had great results in the past. We’ve considered that option and seen other executives who have attempted this discover how problematic it is. Based on our research, it’s clear that people who buy a game console want to continue using it for four, five, six or even seven years. They want to believe they have bought something that is future-proofed and not going to be outdated in two-to-three years.”
It’s no surprise to hear Ryan defend Sony’s strategy like this: the company has introduced two models of the PS5, but the only difference between them is the price and disc drive – internally, they are utilising identical hardware. Microsoft’s next-gen hardware is designed to run the same games at different specifications: 4K and 1440p. The proof, as always, will be in the pudding – but clearly it has an advantage over Sony with a significantly lower-priced SKU.
In our opinion, neither manufacturer is necessarily wrong here, as it will come down to the market to determine which approach it prefers. There’s a possibility that PlayStation may lose sales to cost-conscious consumers, but we still don’t have a clear read on how comparable Xbox Series S titles will be to their more powerful siblings – and whether gamers will even care about the differences. All of this will shake out over the next few years, and it will be interesting to see what happens.
[source av.watch.impress.co.jp, via videogameschronicle.com]
Comments 127
I understand PlayStation's decision here, but I don't think we have enough evidence of this approach to truly say whether it's successful or not.
We'll find out soon I guess, but I appreciate the simplicity of Sony's console line at least. I think they did a good job with the options and pricing of the hardware.
I think we'll just have to wait to see how Series S does in comparison. Admittedly if I didn't already have a beefy PC and wanted to get into the Xbox ecosystem this would be a pretty nice companion console to my PS5 and my Switch so I could have the best of all three, but we'll see.
The Series S is pretty much the only thing that would get me to buy s next gen Xbox in the next two years. I definitely wouldn't do that with the PS5 though.
I agree with him, don't muddy the next gen transition with low-end new generations machine. Just make true ps5 games or ps4 games with updated resolutions and frame rate on ps5.
Also next-gen xbox s is a bad value, just add $100 and you can upgrade from max 2K resolutions output to 8K output, 100% plus more power (4 vs 10.3 TF), more ssd nvme storage (which is very expensive unlike sata ssd).
For gamepass equivalent (which cost $130 peryear on cdkeys), just add either $47 psnow peryear (on cdkeys) for hundreds of games or $29 psplus (on cdkeys) for 14 games + 18 games psplus collection peryear.
I wouldn't even buy an xbox with somebody else's cash at the minute. No AAA bad boys on the horizon for a while and gamepass fillers like Grounded aren't for this old dog.
@TheFrenchiestFry Yeah same, PC at this point is a viable Xbox. If you don’t have a decent one though, this is a good option for casual players or those without 4K TVs. Sony are basing this off seemingly nothing so we’ll just have to wait and see how Series S does.
I find such talk pretty cheap from Sony. Not showing your cards, waiting off the competition and then speak in a condenscending way about the innovations of others (gamepass=not sustainable, series s=unsuccessful).
And to top that off poor communication with the fanbase (backwards compatibility, pre-order, exclusives, etc)
Sony is truly showing off some PS3 era hubris.
I don't think there's much reason to believe a less powerful model wouldn't work, especially considering how much I see people happy to play games on phones and tablets, but I'm still kinda glad they didn't. Much like @get2sammyb mentioned above, I also appreciate the simplicity of their line.
@tameshiyaku He literally said right at the top that he respects the competition but explained why they didn't go in that direction. And the only reason he talked about it was because the media asked him.
Would you have preferred he just said "no comment"?
I could see me picking one up in a couple of years time for some microsoft 1st party content on game pass.
I think the s is the worse option compared to the digital PS5. The 512GB SSD and underpowered chip-set is a no go for me. It could become a hit with parents on a budget who have younger children, who knows.
Sony, I get what you're saying, but that probably wasn't the greatest choice.
Eh, they still have 7 years to make a PS5 lite.
'going to be outdated in two-to-three years.”
And that is exactly what I said when the xbox SS was revealed. Its a scam.
I can see the S doing well, would I get one no, but at that price point and the specs it’s an absolute steal. Doesn’t mean Sony has to take that route, I’ll be more happy with Sony when they decide to support PS5 with true next gen games.
@get2sammyb
Oh it can be successful.
The point is it's too weak a console and will be outdated very quickly. That's the truth whether or not people buy it is not the point
I think with any console launch, you don’t really know what you’re getting until it’s connected to your telly- Youtube and trailers can only really tell part of the story.
I’ll be curious to see if the XBS will be ‘Next Gen enough’ for people, seeing it’s somewhere between the current standard and the XBX standard. (Admittedly I’m happy with my Switch’s graphics).
@Loftimus - Game Pass fillers like Forza Horizon 4, every Gears game, every Halo, Nier Automata, Plague Tale, FFXV Royal Edition, Hellblade, Outer Wilds, Rage 2 etc, etc.
I'm not saying there aren't any fillers but there are plenty of quality games on there. As someone who has PSNow and Game Pass I can tell you where the value lies and it isn't PSNow.
Definitely interested to see how the S does. It seems so pointless to me, but time will tell. I suppose the other thing is that Sony will continue to sell the PS4, whereas the current gen X-Box is discontinued isn't it?
I think low spec system would be cool if there was a way to update it later...kinda like a PC.
Also, at this point, Sony should just figure out a way to get Xbox Series S games to run on PS5, lol.
I don't necessarily think lower specs are that huge of a difference, especially with such a palatable entry price. But it's hard to spend a dime on a company with such a paltry software history. Looking back at the Xbox One software, they have 4 first party games and 2 expansions (Forza Horizon 3 Blizzard Mountain & Hot Wheels) to those games in the top 100 of Metacritic...and they're all some variation of Forza.
Sure, there's Titanfall, Killer Instinct and Ori titles in the top 100 as well...but that's not a good look.
Compared to PlayStation, who has 4 first party games in the top 10...with 13 in the top 100, not including third party games like Nioh, Persona, Street Fighter V Arcade, Final Fantasy XIV...that extra 100 for a PS5 digital more than makes up for the cost.
You're getting quality AND quantity. That's worth an extra 100.
@Shigurui I've had PsNow for a few months now, downloaded and completed Control, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Spider-man, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Evil Within, Evil Within 2, Lords of the Fallen, Observation.
Still have to go: Hollow Knight, Final Fantasy XV, Greedfall, Bloodborne, Hitman 2. More that I can't be bothered to list.
And it was £35 for the year. Honestly, I don't like these subscription services, and probably won't renew it when it expires. But all those games are preferable to me than the ones you mentioned. Depends what you like doesn't it.
I'm quite supportive of the Series S approach, assuming it all works fine. As someone with a 1080p TV and who isn't too concerned about the difference between that and 4K, I'd happily take a cheaper console that can still run next gen games.
@tameshiyaku hubris? Hahaha. Nice one.
I swear, some people are looking for things to accuse Sony of acting like their ps3 days.
Sony Now - "We don't see the need to have a lower spec model available"
Sony Four weeks later - Announces lower spec PS5 despite saying otherwise. Says it was their plan all along
@Shigurui yes gamepass filler like that. i've played all the big boys in my 360 days and apart from those, they are all available on ps anyway.
I was talking about myself and my own situation. I thought i made that clear.
World of difference between Series S and other consoles of a reduced spec. I think it will do extremely well. And you know what? Well done Microsoft. Its a bold and innovative move that will result in a lot of success for them
Looking at the specs of the Series S, it just seems like too many compromises were made to reach that $299 price point. That’s really all I want to say, don’t want to rag on the console too much.
If someone is using it as a Gamepass machine, I’m sure it will suit them just fine.
I think the Series S is a good idea for Microsoft but it doesn't make sense with Sony's approach. Microsoft want to get people hooked into subscriptions with Gamepass and digital games. They want as many people as possible to get subbed and play games.
Sony's strategy is to promote top end games and push the superiority of their first party output which often pushes their hardware to the extreme. If Santa Monica had to design God Of War with a less powerful machine it would affect that track record.
Whether that is the right or wrong strategy - I mean, no one knows. I think both work. Ultimately, I pre-ordered the PS5 because I am heavily into the ecoysystem and like the type of games Sony produces. That said, I am mighty tempted by the Series S with the monthly pay plan because Gamepass is good value.
@Royalblues
I see this arguement 'tempting for parents' bandied about as if it is still the 1980's and gaming is a still a kids pastime. Parents aren't blindly buying consoles anymore, the average gamer is in their mid 30s and are buying their own consoles. These buyers are going to go for the full fat experience if they can.
Even in respect of kids, they are pretty clued up themselves these days, they are pretty much educated consumers by the time they are 10 or 11 and they will be pretty explicit about what they want and again, I just dont see them settling for anything but the machines everyone is hyped for.
Think one thing people might be forgetting is xcloud, we all know how good xcloud is(even sony had talks with Ms about it ) and I think it's something that could be used to leverage series s after a couple or so years.
Just sounds like more BS to me. People want to use their consoles for up to 7 years and not feel outdated within a couple of years. Hello PS4 pro, never got one but did feel like a kick in the nuts to my original purchase. Now we won't have a lesser PS5, perhaps because the PS5 is already playing second fiddle to the inevitable pro model. Bit rich as well to rubbish Microsoft plan when it's in affect the two PS4 model albeit launching at the same time.
A console's success is all about hype, buzz and mindshare and in my opinion, it will be the full fat consoles that all of the focus will be on at launch, these will be the consoles demonstrating what next gen is capable of. Every website out there will focus on the main consoles and how fabulous the games will look, the S will be relegated to a 'by they way, this game is also available on S'.
Price will limit some to settling for the Series S, but I just dont see anyone who has the means choosing the series S over the true next gen consoles.
While the price of the console doesn't bother me too much since it's just an entry point and a one off cost for the next 5-7 years the cost of the games do.
I've been a bit peeved over the last few days over the price hike for the games. I've got my console on preorder and have been mostly loyal to PlayStation since the PS1 and even though I can actually afford the games, I know people who can't. I know people who couldn't even afford many games this gen and it feels like we're being pushed away.
They say that prices haven't changed for a couple of generations, that's not true. In the UK last gen I was paying £37.85 for physical games day one. Day one on PS4 they went up by £10 and sometimes higher. Now they're going up by another £20. It's too damn high.
They say games cost more to make and I'm sure they do but they also sell more than ever. In previous gens when a game sold 100,000 copies it was considered a success and qualified for Platinum Status, now games sell in the millions and Sony have even bragged about record numbers for their exclusives.
Honestly, I am considering cancelling my preorder because it's difficult to justify what they're asking, especially Spider-Man Miles Morales costing £51.85 for what is essentially a 1.5 game and more than I've spent on full AAA titles this gen.
As for the competition, the Xbox, and their GamePass I have issues with that too. The choice of games is under Microsoft's control and the games you WANT to play may not appear for months, years, or ever.
I'm seriously considering ditching 'modern gaming' and going backwards with my library.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant, this has been on my mind for days.
waste of money, if you're paying £70 for a game are you really going to get any benefit from buying a cheaper console at launch, makes absolutely no sense
the company recognised that “low-priced, reduced spec” consoles have “not had great results in the past”
and what low-priced, reduced spec console would sony be referring to here? i can't think of any other than the special canadian red wii which removed gamecube and WIFI support. that was more of a novelty console though and a strange experiment with limited supply at the end of its life cycle. so yea, i have no idea what sony is referring to here. sounds like this is more empty PR talk in all honestly.
that said, i don't think a low end ps5 would be a good idea since i assumed that it would hold back progress of "next gen" software. seeing as sony is now making ps4 ports of "next gen" software, however, we are already going to be held back for another 2 years at this rate.
As an offering straight to the budget, digital only /Game Pass market, Series S makes a lot of sense and will sell plenty. 50%+ of the gaming public won't notice the difference between S and X anyway. They just want FIFA, CoD, GTA Online, Fortnite and Lego games.
Really, Xbox are just kicking off the generation with a vanilla and Pro version, rather than launching it mid-gen.
Will it mean the absolute cream of the gaming crop ends up on PS5 in the opening years ? I hope so, but that might not be as profitable for Sony overall.
The price of games has never phased me since I bought Street Fighter 2 turbo on the SNES when it launched.... this was early 90s and I paid £60 way back then!!
The Series S seemed a great idea until the PS5 digital rocked up at around $100 more and a full fat next gen experience. It's still a great budget console, especially paired with Gamepass but I do think the digital PS5 will take quite a bit of its market now
@Royalblues series s is cheaper than my mid range smartphone and thats really telling...like Ed boon said If you look at a company like apple their best sellers are the cheaper models se and 11
it is going to cause developers headaches for a start.
@TheFrenchiestFry That's definitely me. My pc is 2.8ghz i7, a gtx 970 and a 2tb hdd (not even ssd). For me to upgrade that to match the specs of a seX (not including monitor upgrades etc), it would cost much, much more, than just buying an xbox. I will have 3 months game pass ultimate free just from using bing searches, and presumably there will be some more in the box, whether that be a month or 3 or 6 or whatever. No brainer for me.
I am definitely holding off on the ps5 though.
@tameshiyaku Also, Game Pass isn't sustainable at $10-$15 per month. What they're doing is trying to get people signed up for the service at such a low price and then will raise prices as soon as everyone's hooked. So in a sense it's not sustainable in it's current form
This is funny... Didn't the PS4 Slim sell way better than the PS4 Pro? 😏
Edit:
1️⃣ 2DS sold better than 3DS
2️⃣ PS4 Slim sold better than PS4 Pro
3️⃣ Xbox S sold better than XBox One X
4️⃣ Cheaper video cards in any card Gen sell better than high end cards every single time.
@get2sammyb well you don't have to be outright rude or insulting to come across as condenscending. But hey, I didn't hear it in person. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited as anybody else here for the ps5 and consider it a must buy, but I do feel Sony needs to be a bit challenged by its fanbase and it's competition since I feel they did get a bit too comfortable in their current position. At the beginning of the ps4s lifecycle they were way more consumer friendly.
Really Sony? How about the sales of the OG PS4 since the PRO launched? You did it this gen and I hear the OG PS4 is still selling better than the PRO. Will you do it again next gen? I'm willing to bet you will.
@JJ2 But the Series S is basically the Series X but with less ssd and at 1440p. Unlike other lower-end consoles, it shouldn't age poorly quickly.
While I'm a bit wary of the RAM cutbacks, I think the Series S is a fantastic idea. Most engines can be scaled back, and it makes sense to have a system with a weaker GPU for people who don't care about hitting 4K/are on a budget. The Series S is mostly next-gen in the ways that matter and, crucially, the CPU in it is actually fairly powerful.
@SolarSailor hmm, reminds me a bit of psplus 😉😭
The lower spec, not-aiming-for-4K xbox doesn't appeal to me at all but I'm sure it does to some people. Seems like a risky move to me as I thought most people swapped over to 4K TVs this Gen...
I had a ps5 in my basket on Amazon the other day and decided not to pull the trigger. I remember my excitement queuing up on launch night to bag my PS4, I just don't feel it this time. I'm going to see how the whole £70 a game pans out and might just save my money for a pc instead. Sony are going to continue to release their games there and yeah.. It's a tough one, a really tough one.
have to agree as the fffffffffffffffffffff up that will be the xbox line up who the hell do joe blogs work this out. didnt they look at wii u confusion and the disaster that turned out.
@HotGoomba
It already cant do what the xb1x does
Most TV to buy are 4k now already. They even said devs are free to push 4k if they want even if it's a '1440'p console. That 1440p machine thing is marketing bs even the ps5 pro wasnt marketting that.
The RAM and storage is ridiculous
I don't care tbh. That's what I think though
Edit
Heck even the xb1 S was marketed as a 4k machine
@tameshiyaku it's a confusing strategy with 2 xboxes for next gens launch imo. I mean all PS5 gamers will start next gen on powerful equal footing. Whereas xbox I'm actually quite worrid cos those who pick the weaker xbox might regret it down the line and have to fork out more to upgrade. Plus how many parents might accidentally buy the weaker xbox s for their kids during the hols and then their kids are gutted cos their friend has the more powerful xbox x. It could look like a stealthy double spend strategy. Look at the spec differences: xbox series s (4 TFLOPS, 20 CUs @ 1.55 GHz 10 GB GDDR6) vs xbox series x (12 TFLOPS 10gb, 52 CUs @ 1.825 GHz 16 GB GDDR6). Its like comparing a minicar to a SUV! I mean on paper the xbox s is 100-150% weaker!! Gaming on console is about graphical prowess and computational power no? Weird why divide up the base into haves and have nots?! Sony might have messed up its communication but those of us with brains know Sony are reliable at providing games and keeping next gens fans united. The big thing to ask is what great indie and AAA exclusives can I play on xbox in 2020/2021... What will I be playing in the coming 365 days! No?
Considering there's no direct equivalent to this situation, I'd say that Jim is just lying again. Probably to save face.
Also, even though they aren't direct comparisons, the closest we have would suggest otherwise. The lower spec Xbone and PS4s did better than the high end versions. And the Switch is selling extremely well.
Low spec and cheaper sells well. Usually better. So if anything, history tells us the exact opposite of what Jim is saying.
It'll more likely succeed because its £21 a month with lots of games. Maybe Sony could've released the PS5 Pro at the same time but made it £549
That would save a mid gen revision.
Mr. Ryan forgets that the Pro and X were outsold by the PS4 and XBO. More than 50% of the consumers still preferred the basic versions instead of the ones with extra powers.
@JJ2 1. The Series S has 4k upscaling, I mean it's not full 4k, but I don't think that that's a deal breaker for most people, even if they have 4k TVs.
2. The Ram is lower because of the 1440p res, and I don't think that teraflops (If that's what you're referring to) is a consoles' whole identity
3. The Xbox One S doesn't have 4k. It has 4k upscaling, like the Series S. It DOES have 4K Playback (for dvds, blu-rays and streaming), but like every console since the PS4 Pro had it (excluding the Switch), including the Series S.
4. Honestly idc either lol
5. The Storage isn't great, not gonna lie, but just but an hdd for Xbox one, 360, and oh games. Also the files will be less because they are 1440p.
0. The main reason why I'm even getting the Series S, besides it's price, is because the Series X can't fit under my TV. (I know. Sad). It's a 4K tv, but I'm fine with anything that's 1080p or higher.
@bbq_boy nah, console gaming isn't defined by computational power, that's the PC master race's territory 😉 wouldn't get hung up on the numbers though. Have you seen warframe, witcher 3 or hellblade run on the switch? Pretty impressive. So I'd say innovation and optimization rather defines consoles.
PlayStation and Nintendo have been my go to for two reasons, 1. fantastic exclusives and 2. Japanese games. But I can see myself getting a Xbox (either one) for 3rd party and indies instead of waiting for them to be on plus.
Ok, Sony, now you're just incoherent. Stop trying to damage control your weaknesses, and focus on your record breaking preorder success. And maybe tell us WTF the UI looks like of the piece of software and hardware we've apparently bought all you've produced of and we don't even know what it is or how it operates yet. And if we have to re-buy Spidey for the upgrades?
"“low-priced, reduced spec” consoles have “not had great results in the past”"
Yeah....wouldn't want to be in the same bin, as Wii, DS, Switch, 3DS, or, you know, PS2, the weakest, cheapest console of its generation that became the greatest seller of all time! And lets forget that PS3 was a dust collector until the features were stripped out of it and the price dropped. No, forget that, long live PS3 Phat and Vita, moar power! Moar money!
That's cool if offering a 1080p model doesn't fit their strategy. But just say that rather than pretending winning the price war doesn't always equate to winning the console sales war, when that reality has never not been true. And is the principal strategy by which Sony has always won (and even crushed Sega with.)
This is a PS fan site so of course there's an automatic bias of "who would buy that other brand? I wouldn't!" but if there was a 1080p version of PS5 for $299 the sales volume would make PS2 look like a failure.
Or looking at it another way, in 2019 there was a 1080p PS4 and a 2160p PS4. There was a 1080p XBox One and a 2160p XBox One, and a discless 1080p XBox One.
In 2020 there's a discless 1080p XBox Series, and a 2160p XBox Series. But there's only 2160p PS5's one disc and discless, and nothing to compete with the 1080p model price point.
Just because Sony didn't do it this gen doesn't mean the idea isn't sensible. The 1080p PS4 and XBox One decimated sales of the 2160p PS4 and XBox Ones. No reason to believe that won't also be true for XBox Series, and wouldn't have been true for PS5, had Sony chosen to make one. They simply decided not to for whatever market or business reason. Jim's just denying Playstation history in this statement, which is understandable considering the business side of the company is probably looking at a $300 Nintendo and a $300 XBox and demanding answers about "why are we not in that market? We're always the price leader!"
@Kefka2589 Hence why I stated they weren't direct comparisons. Still, even when new customers had both options, they routinely picked the cheaper, lower spec option.
That's why the pro was being outsold 5-1 when it was an option.
I'm waiting for pre-order to open where I live to get a PS5 (still haven't decided if digital or classic) , but I'm thinking on getting maybe a Series S down the road... I have a games PC also but there's certain charm in having a dedicated box for game pass and fast storage (PC with ssd is not fast, is just good specs).
@HotGoomba
Ok that s fine. I'm not debating whatever idc I said haha.
Hope you know it cant handle xb1x assets (=/= resolution)BC its 7.5gb RAM for games and an extra SSD will cost two fingers
😃
@JJ2 Eh, if it really can't run anything Series X can, you win, but from reports, it seems to be capable, so we'll see once it releases.
@HotGoomba
I meant xbox one x
@JJ2 Nah I still think that it will run everything that the One X can. Just because the Teraflops aren't as great, the CPU and GPU should help it be a comparable sibling to the Series X.
Will it be PS5 or Series X or PC powerful? HA. But it should run most things well.
I see a lot of garbage talk about comparing different versions of consoles and overall sales. Not, Not, absolutely Not relevant. We are talking about launching consoles for a new generation, forking out a chunk of money for brand new hardware, £70 per game why would you immediately jump onboard a new generation and aim for a much inferior experience to save the equivalent of a few games in the short term. Garbage garbage garbage logic.
All i know is that my PS5 is pre ordered.
Good, I wouldn't want them to be held back by such weak hardware, with Series X they will never have the quality level of PlayStation exclusives, you can't downscale high quality textures to 30 percent of it's required resources, you gotta work downwards and up, it's why games like Watchdogs needed to be downgraded before release because those assets couldn't run well on mid tier
Xbox series X is $25 a month for 24 months it could help lower income people. Problem is chances are many will not have the credit rating and will be refused the offer.
Best buy offered me $27 a month for 18 month for my PS5 purchase interest free. Or money back in the form of reward points. I picked the rewards as I can and will pay off the credit card day one with no interest.
4K "HDR" breaths so much more life into games today. I feel its a must for the next generation of gaming. You do not have to go for the high end TV's to enjoy it!! I bought a TCL 43" TV on sale 3 years ago for my PS4 Pro. It was just $259 a great way to to see what 4K HDR brings to games. HDR is what makes them so great not so much 4K. I wife still enjoys the 55" 1080P Plasma TV for general use.
@Kefka2589 A few years ago Sony themselves stated that the pro represented 1 in every 5 PS4s sold. That's the only indication of sales and split they've given, so that's what I'm going by, since it's all we have to go on.
As it stands, I think it's a pretty solid bet that the series S outsells the X. I wouldn't make any other predictions though.
There is only one question I want to ask Jim Ryan right now.. Can I play the PS4 version of Yakuza Like a Dragon on my PS5 day one?
*If anyone can clarify I would be very grateful
@Richnj Thing is are they counting the PS4 sold before the Pro even launched?
“low-priced, reduced spec” consoles have “not had great results in the past”
Not sure about that. Look at Wii, gameboy and switch as a few examples...
@Darylb88 Claims were that they would not certify any game after July that did not work on PS5, so I am going that game is not under the 1% of games that wont work.
@get2sammyb I've never been a PC gamer but completely get the idea of having minimum and maximum specs. I don't believe that the Series S will hold back the Series X at all. Microsoft have the most powerful and least powerful consoles for the upcoming generation but also have two vastly different yet equally enticing options for gamers. I'm a gamer who prefers physical media so I'm going to buy a PS5 with the disc drive (probably when they bring a slim out). I've always owned all 3 consoles (or 4 in the Dreamcast generation ☹️) so I was always planning to buy an Xbox Series X too. But I'm also fairly convinced by the Series S and using it as a GamePass machine in another room as it will also play the digital games I've acquired through Games With Gold.
@Subsided Not true at all. Look at every PC game over the last 15-20 years. Minimum and maximum specs work. Series S will play every Xbox game o er the next 10 years including multi-platform games.
Shame they didn't do one. Would have lead to me getting a ps5 sooner
Okay, two things:
1 - Nintendo Wii
2 - PS2
Jim has amnesia.
That's all folks
@__jamiie that shows why it doesn't work, not to push things to their best, like with watchdogs and many others, they needed to downgrade the assets even on the highest end to get them to run on the lower end
I’m pretty sure Sony couldn’t pull it off. I don’t know if MS can either but the way they handle backwards compatibility is promising. You can take a game that was made 20 years ago, when only the original Xbox existed, pop it in an Xbox One X or a Series X and each time it gets better. That’s purely hardware improving a game without any need for the developer to have done a thing.
@Subsided But it does work. It always has done in PC gaming. This is purely just an extreme version of the PS4 Vs PS4 Pro and Microsoft have given gamers a real choice rather than just disc or no disc.
@Kefka2589 Probably not, especially given the murkiness around the translations and the intended meaning. People were assuming it meant stronger than expected when compared to that of slim. If I had better data or references, I'd use them.
https://www.vg247.com/2017/02/03/ps4-pro-sales-are-stronger-than-that-of-ps4-slim-says-sony-cfo/
@__jamiie it works to release half baked versions of games that will never reach their true potential but not for the best of the best looking game
@Kefka2589 @Tharsman Yeah I mean I guess the MS marketing deal means that SEGA can't be super clear but hopefully that is the case. I am happy to wait for the PS5 upgrade.
The S will sell well at first but just die after a year I bet. Even the disc-less PS5 will be the same I reckon. People want the BEST versions of their Next-gen machines. Well I do anyway
Promising that the lower spec one can do the same, just at a lower resolution does seem a little optimistic to me. What if someone wants to make a game so adventurous, that it cant even run at 4k on the more powerful machine?
@Subsided Not at all. Do PC games rely on the minimum performance??? No. They achieve the best specs current hardware can deliver then scale back to make it accessible to all. What don't you get about that? Why don't you think scalable performance works? I know that my PS4 Pro performs better than than my OG PS4. I know my Switch works better better in docked mode. No developer is building games for Series S. They're building them for Series X and scaling back. Xbox have the most powerful console this generation and games will be scaled back for Series S and PS5.
@Darylb88 I do hope for PS fans the upgrade happens, but got to keep the game was already done and finished for PS4 and this is just a translation.
The Xbox version was a complete port, and their upgrades might had been part of the porting process. I plan to play it on XBox, but honestly, if the game came for Switch I would play it there instead, it looks like a ridiculous fun game regardless if it has the biggest bells and whistles.
@Balosi "What if someone wants to make a game so adventurous, that it cant even run at 4k on the more powerful machine?"
That game would likely end up lowered to 30fps before sacrificing 4k, but i would not be shocked if such a game simply does an equivalent reduction on that console. A game that forces 2k on the next gen extreme hardware might force 720p on series S, but I think the press would slaughter such a game in every platform.
You honestly think anyone will give a positive review to a game that does 2k/30 on a PS5?
How many people had sub 4k tvs? Or can’t tell the difference? Lots. Series S is for them. As several people have pointed out the past three years has been developers making two different versions of the game just for one platform (one s and one x, ps4 and ps4 pro). And most games are cross platform (ios, android, switch, pc, etc.) so developers are used to scaling effects to match gpu power. This is an interesting experiment. In 4 years when Microsoft wants to release a pro series x model, how will series s owners fare? Will Series S be limited by its reduced system RAM? Will Series S limitations inhibit Series X development and, if so, would those developers choose to only release on Series X? So many questions..
@tharsman yes, if it is displaying reasons it needed to make the sacrifice. I dont see why games need to be locked into a minimum res and frame rate, if they want to use the power on other things.
@Balosi These days, they will be hit in reviews, but regardless, the way the GPU sounds to be designed for the Series S, it will regardless push a quarter of the resolution the Series X can.
2880p on Series X => 1440p on Series S
1440p on Series X => 720p on Series S
720p on Series X => 360p on Series S
At the same time, developers can decide to treat the Series S differently, if they want to throw in the work, they can decide the Series S version will not sacrifice its 1440p resolution and instead cut, example, draw distance.
I'm getting annoyed with all the FUD and poor or agenda reporting twisting Jim Ryan s words
So much stupidity too.
@koffing
'This is an interesting experiment. In 4 years when Microsoft wants to release a pro series x model, '
I guess the SS would be retired long before then or replaced with a more capable model.
@Loftimus - I wasn't questioning your situation, I absolutely respect your decision to not buy into something but to dismiss Game Pass as nothing but filler is way off the mark.
@GADG3Tx87 let me know if you cancel your pre order lol still waiting to get mine lol
I thought microsoft would have plugged Xcloud when marketing series S, as that would extend the life of the console and even mean that some ps5 users would buy it as an xcloud hub. As network speeds get faster, streaming will be even more prominent, and with them being ahead of Sony in the streaming market, you'd have expected to hear more about it alongside the usual spec talk.
I hope they don't do that. It's fine you just need to make more digital version of the PlayStation 5 and more of the disc version PlayStation 5 and increase production and send them to the store for more do you want to survive that's all Sony has already won and that demand is so high
@Kefka2589
So, what you say is that there are no more consoles sold last years? From all the sold consoles was about 2/3 the basic version. You are still talking about millions of consoles.
Bring on the ps5 pro 💪🏻
This is nothing but Jim Ryan being all defensive, and a total hypocrite, if he was so concerned about lower spec models Sony would never have made the PS4 a lower sled model by making the PS4 Pro. Same thing even if the timescales are different. Ryan is full of it and should just stop talking really as he is only digging that hole deeper and deeper for himself.
@Subsided So what do you think is going to happen with PS5 games launching on PS4 for several years yet? Your very hypocritical and naive with your comment there, blindingly defending Sony totally ignoring the fact they will be doing the same as Microsoft.
@NEStalgia They could never match the Series S pricing, the PS5 costs too much to make, the only reason they have the PS5 digital at its price point is due to the inflated games prices, they know the majority who own that console will buy the games form their store, which you cannot return a game to once it’s been downloaded or streamed, once you buy it they have you. Now they can control any sales that occur and I bet hardly any PS5 digital games will be in sale for a while.
The PS5 was going to be priced higher, they have had to match the Series X, and now as you said they are purely in the defensive. Send them a message and buy second hand I say.
@S1ayeR74 years isn't accurate and it's also not forever, I'm perfectly okay with a quality curve for a console where it gets better all the time and not stopped at the start like Xbox will be
@Subsided The sheer blind dumb hypocrisy is very strong with you I see.. you must enjoy being lied to? Using your logic Sony will actually be worst then Microsoft, because Microsoft will support the Xbox One for 2 years where as Sony will be supporting the PS4 for 3 more years, that means cross gen games for 3 years on the PS5 holding it back all the way...
@S1ayeR74 not 3 years lol, you're just making things up, and like I said all it means is a gradual improvement as opposed to Xbox which will always be held back by the Series S
@S1ayeR74 over designed, excessive cost to produce hardware that can't compete with the market price.... Where have we seen this before? "Starting at $599.99!" . It's the inverse of ps3. They spent more on the hardware design than the market could sustain and failed trying to pass the cost on at purchase. They did the exact same thing here, but knew the market wouldn't tolerate the excessive launch price, but are trying to pass it off by just gouging on games. Silly. Playing the quarterly game at the cost of the long game. Very western, not very Japanese. Meanwhile Microsoft is being very Japanese....
They're in for a rude awakening. They assumed "because it's PlayStation" people would buy anyway. And they didn't expect an economic crisis that REALLY will hit that strategy hard. I think they're sitting back looking at preorders and thinking nobody cares about the price hike because everyone loves Sony. Imo, even looking here at the hardcore fans, many many of us are buying hardware now just to secure it because we know it'll be hard to get, and then plan on sitting on game purchases up to a year, playing our backlogs on a shiny new ssd, and waiting for sales. Including digital. That's going to hurt , they're PAYING us to take the hardware.... If were not buying many or any games because the price is off-putting without sales were robbing them blind for a quarter or more. They'll have no choice but to spur interest with sales. Lower margin positive earnings are better than bottomless debt on loss leader hardware.
Meanwhile MS will be converting a new mass market of fifa/cod casuals into recurring payment revenue......
I expect a rocky year one or two of ps5, as a fan, followed by a company scramble to fix their then broken image as a fan favorite. 2023 will be a great year to be a ps5 gamer.
@Tharsman you have missed the point
But what happens if the S version makes up 90% of the sales? Do game makers really want to spend a lot of effort adding things for the X version if the masses are using the S? X owner could end up with less games pushing their system to the limits if devs target S specs.
@SarcasticPeanut It doesn't really work that way. With modern game dev there's basically only one version, the highest end future tech PC version. Every other target is just built off that one. Each console brand needs its features added. Share buttons, online interactions, trophies/achievements, and any hardware peculiarities (dealing with ps5s lower sustained performance but having a higher oc peak in bursts that XSeX etc. ) But generally it's all one high end build of the game with features disabled, resolution reduced, etc for the lower end builds.
Prior gen console holds back the game mostly because the cpus in 8th gen consoles were absolute garbage. Ps4 and x1 basically used the same trash tablet cpu to keep it cheap to produce. That's way they "hold back" games that are cpu bound. But XSeX and XSeS have the same cpu, clocked slightly different, and even severe gpu differences don't affect the game design. Or just turns off the demanding effects and reduced lod and draw distance and loads smaller textures. Ms smart delivery is about delivering the right asset pack, which was already made for pcs. Ps5 of course only has one flavor, 4k, bit the games already have lower res assets, even Sony games, because of pc versions. Usually those are just sampled from the 4k version anyway.
So no, successful XSeS can't hold back XSeX games or ps5 games. At worst some games may hit lower fps on XSeS.
@S1ayeR74 3 years or not it's still not the entire cycle, it will only get better, and then why don't you explain why they need to downgrade? Go on
@Kidfried you can't tell a difference with first party titles but you can with 3rd party titles. I have a PS4 Pro and my son has the X1X. Destiny, Far Cry 5 and Red Dead Redemption 2 look much better on the Xbox One X. They run much better too. I've just gotten so accustomed to the Playstation ecosystem that I don't want to switch.
@Subsided You look the fool defending Sony. You are the one constantly claiming the Series X will be held back so you can do the explaining, because the same logic applies to the PS5, all third party games are made in the exact same computers, the same dev teams, so come on enlighten us as to why you believe the Xbox will be held back.
@S1ayeR74 No matter what someone's opinion is of something, please do not go around calling fellow members idiots.
@LiamCroft are you a staff member or a moderator?
@S1ayeR74 Staff member, why?
Personally I think Sony/PlayStation made the right call, deciding to keep both versions the same identical aside from one not having a Disk Drive.
As to whether or not Series S will outsell the Digital PS5, it may very well do so, but I doubt PlayStation or their fans will care very much.
The issue with the next-gen of consoles is that we will not see the power of PS5 and XSX to soon, only 2-3 years in the cycle, as much as sony wants to kid itself you can't just end support for 110mil players. Think about the PS2 era. And already having diminishing returns on the graphics, you will not see any game changers, the industry is so mature allready. That's why most titles that will come out will still be on the PS4 and XBO. I have a org PS4 since launch and a Pro for 3 years, as much as I like the PS5 and the spec bump don't see a reason for the PS5 for the moment. Not a deamon soul's fan and MM will be available on PS4. And if GOW will come out next year, after 3 years of development I can tell you that it will be available on PS4 to, just bumped up for PS5, it's all about money. They want to sell more game copies.
@S1ayeR74 they will be held back ..for a time ..but not for the entire lifecycle, you seem unable to comprehend this
@Subsided Ah so you finally u detest and the PS5 WILL be held back by having games on the PS4, finally.
@S1ayeR74 I never said it wouldn't while they were also made on PlayStation 4 but that's still only a coue years and only a limited selection
@Subsided Three years as stated by Jim Ryan and I doubt very much it’ll be limited to 3 games.. by the time Sony has proper PS5 exclusives out Microsoft will have had a years worth at least I’d proper Xbox Series exclusives out.
"Based on our research, it’s clear that people who buy a game console want to continue using it for four, five, six or even seven years. They want to believe they have bought something that is future-proofed and not going to be outdated in two-to-three years."
Quite the shade there.
Let's not forget the Series S CPU is (marginally) more powerful than the PS5 CPU.
For people who aren't interested in 4K, there's no reason it won't be able to play the same games.
@TheGamerKing It isn't weaker than the One X. Their GPUs are roughly equivalent (though the Series S has hardware accelerated ray-tracing etc.), and the Series S CPU is far more powerful than the One X CPU (and even more powerful than the PS5 CPU).
The Series S is for 1080p/1440p displays (which most people still have).
@tameshiyaku I'm actually very interested to see what xbox will bring exclusively next gen. They have more gaming studios than 5 years ago. Yeah Nintendo do have some sweet games. The various weaker/powerful consoles launch at still feels like division. Colleague at work just been given a weaker phone cos they broke their original one. Same OS, same brand. But its very clear they've got a slower system. A delay to browse etc. But hey ho... Let's see if the weaker/stronger console strategy works.
As a PlayStation gamer that also has a Xbox one x I think the series s is a great idea I’ve pre ordered a ps5 and I wouldn’t consider a series x yet till there’s something on in but as a gamepass subscriber I decided to go for a series s to get a next gen Xbox I could always upgrade in the future but for now that will do.
@__jamiie of course it doesn't work, PC gets massively upgraded whenever new consoles.come out, and the middle ground requires.more power then a console, with lower spec Xbox it means that it will be holding all releases on it back
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