Soapbox: The Outer Worlds Highlights Just How Far Fallout Has Fallen

If only bethesda would just make a new dedicated engine that can last 1 fallout, 1 TES and 1 starfield game and than just update it or make a new one. The biggest problem for any bethesda developed game is the creation engine.

I lost faith in Bethesda when Fallout 4 came out. Not sure how it managed to both demanding AND still sort of feel like a last-gen game (the character models were so janky, and they somehow made the combat worse). It was sort of like Fallout 3, but with a horrible and omnipresent crafting system. And they turned power armor into mech suits, for some reason. And the open world somehow seemed even more barren. Well, anyway, that game taught me not to expect much from them going forward. I bet ES VI in 2025 or whatever will still look and feel janky, even as games like The Witcher 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn 2, and Breath of the Wild 2 will continue to push the envelope when it comes to presentation and/or game design in big open world titles.

And, of course, Bethesda games get worse and worse when it comes to the RPG aspects. They somehow managed to mess up something as basic as dialogue options in the conversations in Fallout 4, and, from what it sounds like, just ruined everything in Fallout 76. Ugh.

Y'know, I'm happy for Obsidian.

The Outer Worlds is going back to a classic Fallout (and in some cases Mass Effect) formula that helped so many people fall in love with games like Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

I'm also glad that everything Bethesda is doing with Fallout 76 is blowing up in their face, cause it shows they're handling things the wrong way.

My worry is how many hits to its reputation can the Fallout name take? If a great Fallout game, with all the old RPG trappings and none of the multiplayer/microtransaction nonsense came out next year and reviewed well, I believe it would still sell bucketloads. But if they tried to pull a Fallout76 again, or some other dross (don't even joke about a card game spin-off, it's too plausible) then the brand would start to feel incredibly tarnished, if it isn't already. As a massive, massive Fallout fan, seeing Vault Boy reduced to these grubby ads is like finding out my own parents have been forced to go on the game to make ends meet.

What has shocked me about this Fallout 1st malarkey is that since things had gone a bit quiet on Fallout76, I'd assumed in my naive way that Bethesda had scurried back under their rock to have a good think about their behaviour. But this tragi-comic subscription model says to me that they still believe this to be the way forward.

I agree with this entirely, let's forget the absolute sh*t show that is Fallout 76, Fallout 4 was barely an RPG with dialogue choices virtually meaningless and player builds making little difference. I had fun with it but it didn't satisfy the RPG fan in me anywhere like New Vegas or even 3 did.

Now we have The Outer Worlds which plays very much like Fallout albeit with better gunplay for me. The night and day difference comes in your interactions with its inhabitants, with plenty of dialogue choices and npc's to interact with. I've even found that you can have conversations with those affected by your actions after the quests after they have finished. Not only that but your companions regularly have conversations with the people you meet, often leading to more humorous exchanges with them afterwards when they explain themselves. Your character build also makes a genuine difference with so many different ways to approach the story and the game continues regardless of how you decide to tackle the quests, in this game you can truly role play which is ultimately the whole point of these games. I actually look forward to finishing this game so that I can play it again differently.

Bethesda are so far away from this its embarrassing and I take no pleasure in saying that as someone who has adored their games

I just wanna check the reviews for Death Stranding or the Star Wars Jedi before considering getting this. I know I'll definitely like it. I heard it's 15hrs Main and 30hrs Main+Side with a mute character, it's behind on those aspects in comparison with Fallout 4 then, so let's not get ahead of ourselves. It should be compared to 4 not 76, we all agree 76 is a disaster. I imagine all the resources is going to ES6, if that flops too then we can agree Bethesda's lost it, till then...nah.

I think there are some change in leadership at bethesda in the top of the food chain, it's weird they suddenly change from top premiere studio to this.

@TheArt I really enjoyed Fallout 4 but even after just a few hours I can confidently say that this a much better RPG than that game was. The mute character isn't an issue and given the sheer amount of responses you can have I can see why, plus you regularly have your companions chirping in anyway. I can't comment on the length but I suspect it'll be taking me much longer than the 15 hours suggested as I'm exploring everywhere and talking to everybody. If you're after an RPG then this is a lot better than 4 but if you want an open world fps adventure then 4 will be the better game, I suspect most Fallout fans would prefer the former

This was the resulting conversation after an early quest when I sold his meds to someone else, I'm playing as a nice guy 😉

Ironically, i love when you all hate something. And i wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. Bethesda are money hungry dirtbags imo. Howard and Hines should have a look in the mirror. The gaming industry is the only one that you can release something completely broken and make bank on unsuspecting consumers. This coming from someone who looooved New Vegas, Oblivion and Skyrim a LOT. Obsidian is a group of talented and determined people. Its obvious. I wasnt thrilled they went to MS but am happy they get the opportunity to take bethesda down. Sony needs to double down on this style of game with a new or existing 1st party dev. Seriously, F bethesda

Well I must be in the minority then as I tired of fallout 3, hated 4 and not blown away by The outer worlds either. Put about 10 hours in to it today. Like the setting alot more than the barren, boring, sepia fallout but that's about it. Just feels too Fallout'y for me.

I loved Fallout 4, but I’m definitely looking forward to Outer worlds when I can get it.

@Kidfunkadelic83 lol how do you not enjoy a game that much and put in 10 hours in a single day? If a game doesn't grip me in about 2 -3 hours of play I shelve that s#@!. Time is precious and I haven't got time for mediocre anymore.

I really enjoyed fallout 4. Love the direction it went, but there engine hurt the game. I'll try this game when I catch a sale. But fallout 76 is clearly one of the worst games I've ever played.

i'm glad people have finally woken up and see bethesda for what they are. i have been calling them out since fallout 3 and skyrim — for some reason, they got a free pass back then. oh well, better late than never.

@Porco The thing is: Fallout 3 and Skyrim are legitimately fun. Not amazing, and not the best of their own series, but fun nonetheless and a good enough time. Fallout 4 was barely fun, but people could still eke some enjoyment out of it. Fallout 76 is broken and unfun on purpose - by design. "It's fun with friends" can be used for literally anything, so those who had used that to defend it are just admitting the game itself is not fun.

Fallout 3 and Skyrim could be described as passable, but 76 is a cardinal sin of a game.

I'm obviously in the minority here, but I find fallout 76 to be enjoyable and fun. I like exploring the world, finding new recordings of people after the war, and building my house. I play fallout 76 several hours each day and enjoy it a lot. They have put a lot of stuff in the game since launch and the wastelanders update I am really really looking forward to.

@ShogunRok Great article Robert and so true in many ways. I have been playing The Outer Worlds the past few days and my copy of Modern Warfare is still sealed. It reminds me how much I loved New Vegas and it pretty much is NV with a coat of paint. Still though it's my GOTY this year.

I had a great time with Fallout 4. I am very tempted by Outer Worlds, but am not sure it will be as good without the total open world and manipulation of objects. Fallout 76 was never on my radar.

I cannot comment about Fallout 76 because there was nothing about it before it launched that made me want to buy and as time has gone on, I am pleased I didn't waste money on it in the first place. That being said though, I d think its more of a 'spin off' than a true 'Fallout' game. Its not really a Single player game at all and s really can't be compared to the Outer Worlds.

The closest game would be Fallout 4 but in my opinion, Fallout 4 is more of a iteration on Fallout 3. Its certainly not a step up and the base building add-on is clunky and not what I would call a worth while addition. Its more colourful than 3 but still felt dated. When you look at games like the Witcher 3 for example, that felt it raised the bar for what an open world, single player RPG should be reaching for.

I haven't yet played the Outer Worlds so I can't comment on that yet either but by all accounts, its a step up from any Bethesda made RPG's. I know people will look at Fallout because of the creator of that were Obsidian and Obsidian made New Vegas too. Bethesda are going through a very tough time with mistake after PR disaster after Mistake and yet Obsidian have released a great Single Player RPG with very few bugs, great writing and great game-play (at least that's what I hear from the reviews). Its still a very different game from Fallout 76 as the Outer Worlds is a complete single player game whilst Fallout 76 is an online service based game.

I have started playing Outer Worlds via Game Pass on the Xbox, and I am amazed at how addicting it can get. I always get the itch to explore just above that hill, all named NPCs are unique, the player character's responses are almost perfect and the colors have me hooked.

Basically, it's everything Fallout 76 isn't.

I don't wish ill on any company like Bethesda I just want them to learn from there mistakes and never do that mistake again. But if Bethesda makes another Fallout 76-like mistake it would literally would bankrupt them for sure.

@BridgeToClarity You probably don't really like the post-apocalyptic, lets-go-back-to-the-sixties setting of those games? Did you feel uncompelled to finish Bioshock games too?

Nothing wrong with that.

@zimbogamer usually I'm the same buddy but I had to be sure as I've always liked the idea of a fallout game in a more colourful world. I cant say I hated it but it never got past "hmmm its ok" in the time I played it.

@carlos82 lol thats pretty funny. Does the whole game have that kind of humor to it?

@BridgeToClarity I totally understand that but as you said I usually try and go back a few months or years later and give it another show. I think it's mainly cause I have a family life and can work 90+ hours a week that if I am not entertained I have to move on cause there are so many great games and so little time.

@Kidfunkadelic83 no worries yeah I know how it is. I was like that with a few so called amazing games. I tried my best to get into it but it just didn't grip me. I usually give a game 3 -5 hours depending on the genre (RPGs you have to give a little more time) but at the end of the day games should be fun and not a time waster

Well you are ranting about a spin-off game that anybody could have told you wasn't home to be proper Fallout game, so yeah it does look pretty stupid.

Best rpg I've played in a good long time, probably since Mass Effect (not Andromeda). Everything about the game is pretty much superb. I just have three major qualms:

1. You can't holster your weapon (correct me if I'm wrong). Highly irritating, but strangely manageable.

2. You cannot see your character during cutscenes, only in the menu (which kind of defeats the purpose of in-depth character creation).

3. And three, there is no romance (huge advocate of LUV :} lol).

But yeah, truly a worthy purchase imo, and it's a call-back to the good ol' days when rpgs were first and foremost roleplaying experiences — shooters and gimmick-pigs second or third. Good on Obsidian for answering the call of the fans and delivering this sweet gem to us weary seekers, lol.

Bethesdaaa... they're off in left field right now. I wouldn't be optimistic about ES6 at this point. The way they've decided to conduct business is just disdainful in my opinion, but it's left a gaping hole for other companies (Spiders, Obsidian) to help fill the void and take up the torch, so it very well could be a blessing in disguise. But it's still disappointing to see such IPs get flushed down the toilet nonetheless.

To the future! It's not the best choice, it's the fan's choice (he he).

@ellsworth004 so far yeah, there seem to be plenty of options to tell people you simply weren't listening and don't really care why you are there and you can be pretty mean to them. I have softened a bit though as the first companion Parvati is a little sweetheart.

@PunkRx_Lockly

1. Hold Square

I enjoyed Fallout 4 and even played through it a couple of times for the platinum trophy but I've made more choices with consequences in the first few hours of The Outer Worlds than in the entirety of Fallout 4.

@PunkRx_Lockly you can holster your weapon.....just hold down the square button a couple of seconds

Thanks guys. I thought I was going to have to play the entire game sticking my gun in people's faces, lol. Me arm is tired !!

@carlos82 Yea no doubt I'm sure I'll love it but I'm just saying we should simmer down with the "let's bash the old toy and forget quickly all the fun it gave us because we got a new one". What didn't Bioware go through with Andromeda, people with huge expectations they ended up nitpicking facial animations. This Outer Worlds wasn't highly anticipated and I've seen some of its facial animations but it gets a pass because...I'm saying years to come when Obsidian is ever big, it'll probably suffer the same fate.

@Salt_AU yeah very annoying that !! 🤣

I NORMALLY WONT HIT THE CAPS. SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW THIS GAME RUNS LIKE BUTTA SMOOTH?? AND BL3 CO OP (and solo to a lesser degree🙄) IS STILL GARBAGE. Sorry and thanks.

@TheArt 'What didn't Bioware go through with Andromeda, people with huge expectations they ended up nitpicking facial animations'

Or the fact it was the next chapter in arguably last gens best franchise with high production values and super hype promises. We got an RPG lite looter shooter with a crap story, characters and enemies. Andromeda has basically finished mass effect as it is, was and always will be absolutely appalling. The single most disappointing game I have ever played. No nit picking here.

Fallout was a great series, 76 is a rubbish game. Franchise ending sub par rubbish. It has nothing to do with the developer being a big name, more so the fact both games (Andromeda and 76) are a cash grab of unfinished ideas and amateurish bugs by a developer who should value their marquee ip more.

@MBII @BAMozzy Comparing The Outer Worlds to Fallout 76 isn't really what this article is about. Obviously they're very different games — but that's the point.

The Outer Worlds carries on the legacy of what Fallout used to be, and therefore it makes me unhappy to see what Fallout has become.

@ShogunRok The point I was making though wasn't so much about it being a different game as much as it being a spin off from the main franchise and you might as well of used Fallout Vault mobile thing or saying you don't like what Halo has become now its a RTS (Wars) or the Top down shooter game they did. These are spin-offs and it just so happens that Fallout 76 happened to be the last release but that's a spin-off from Fallout 4.

I wouldn't have argued or made any comment had you used Fallout 4 as that was the last Fallout mainline game and Elder Scrolls had already had its spin off in ESO so it was probably the easiest franchise to try and make a Service based game out of but its not really what Fallout is and, unless 76 really has ruined the name, I could see a Fallout 5 being released that would be much closer to the Outer Worlds - but being a Bethesda game, full of bugs for months on end...

@BAMozzy I think why Robert used 76 was that he was saying the Fallout as fallen so far away from what made Fallout so great. Instead of making spinoffs and a service based game all they have to do is make a Fallout game like Outer Worlds, a single player RPG and it will sell well. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.

@PhantomXIII Here's another controversial opinion. I see ppl constantly criticizing FO4 and Skyrim for having limited rpg mechanics. Yet at the same time praising games like HZD and Witcher 3 for being great 'rpgs'. Being a great game and being a great rpg are two different things. Whatever the case the Bethesda games are a lot more of an rpg than both Witcher 3 and HZD(especially the latter). I'm not defending Bethesda(the F76 situation is a total sh*tshow no matter how you twist it), i'm just saying that you don't have to bend reality at your will just to make a point.

@TheArt yeah I agree a lot of the criticism of Andromeda was ridiculous in terms of its visuals, I remember Horizon Zero Dawn getting a bit of that as well and that's a gorgeous game to look at overall.

Had Fallout 4 been the most recent entry it would have been a different story as that is a very good game and one I still play, it just didn't cut it as an RPG. Certainly a lot of the reaction for this game has been born out of Fallout 76 and its many many problems, not least of which was launching the game without npc's. Then Bethesda made it so much worse by delaying that update but having the gall to introduce an extremely pricey subscription service that offers what should be largely basic features and even then it didn't work, all a couple of days before a game launched which does everything that the fans wanted from their series in the first place. The Outer Worlds doesn't do anything new but rather it brings together lots of aspects from the better rpg's of the past, combines it with some brilliant writing and player choice. All in a world that isn't bloated with meaningless content and in a year which has seen the big developers spew out the likes of Anthem and Ghost Recon it's quite refreshing to play, and reaffirming that graphics and big budgets are meaningless without passion and a clear idea of what game you want to make

Both Bioware and Bethesda as a developer have been incredibly disappointing this generation. To the point where I've lost all faith in both.

But if we look at Final Fantasy 15 and Metal Gear Solid 5, they were released in a very much unfinished state as well.

So i can only imagine what some of these publishers will try to pull next generation where things will be even more challenging.

@themcnoisy I just played through mass effect andromeda in about 70 hours and it was the most fun Ive had with a game in a long time. I can see the flaws and I can see why someone that was superhyped would be disappointed. But having played it a couple years after release with zero expectation I can objectively say it really wasnt that bad of a game. Just mass effect on the PS4, with subpar facial animations and too much filler content, but mass effect nonetheless.

Voiced character dialogue choice should be more like Kassandra's from AC Odyssey. If you don't want to do a quest then just tell the quest giver to f**koff! Malakas!

I've been playing Outer Worlds since it dropped on Friday, I need to have a break so people don't worry about me...

This is what Fallout 4 should have been. All systems streamlined and some elegant solutions to series-long problems (the inhaler for health is fantastic - I can see a lot of other games taking this mechanic in future - no more inhaling 20 bread and 20 tomatoes mid-combat!).
There are times it feels like Fallout, sometimes like Mass Effect, and occasionally like Bioshock.

Bethesda are pretty much dead to me now.

@ApostateMage
Malakas is one a-hole.
Malakes is many a-holes. (plural)

So, you should say that Bethesda and Bioware are a bunch of malakes.

Just doing my Greek duty.

@Genrou Saying that 'Fallout' has fallen so far away by considering a spin off as an example and using that to compare to a brand new IP that has its roots in the Single player RPG that was the main Fallout games is wrong.

Its like comparing Destiny to Halo Wars and complaining how far Halo has fallen now. I am not saying Halo is great btw but that you can't really use a Spin Off to complain about how far its fallen. I bet Obsidian would love the Outer Worlds to be as big (in terms of IP recognition) as Fallout and that its getting Spin Offs.

I am sure Fallout 76 has damaged the Fallout name but I would still expect a Fallout 5 to have a lot of buzz and hype - like Elder Scrolls 6 despite a disappointing launch of the spin off Elder Scrolls online (although I believe that has turned things around). Of course that is dependent on Bethesda repairing their image too because People will want another Single Player RPG set in the wastelands of Fallout.

I am one of those that bought Fallout 4 because it was a single player RPG and was disappointed because it felt dated but it was a 'Fallout' game. I would be likely to buy a Fallout 5 too because its likely to be a 'Fallout' game and not a spin-off like Fallout 76 or Fallout: Shelter. Fallout 76 is a 'different' game even if it retains some similarities to the game-play of the main franchise but being an online multiplayer game, its a spin-off set in the Fallout universe because Bethesda wanted a service based online multi-player game and Fallout, not only because they had all the assets already so could create something relatively easily, but also the IP recognition of the 'Fallout' name would help to sell the game despite it being different from the main franchise.

Its like ESO too and if that was still getting all the negative press that Fallout 76 has, people would still be hyped for Elder Scrolls 6 because that would be a return to the series and expected game-play rather than be some spin-off that is different.

I am NOT going to deny that Fallout 4 didn't live up to hype and expectation but I would still expect a Fallout 5 announcement would generate excitement and anticipation - especially if its accompanied by a trailer that not only looks like a game for the generation and shows of the single player RPG action and mechanics that Fallout has become associated with - V.A.T.S. for example I bet would get a big cheer from the crowd. I know some will still be apprehensive because of 76 and Bethesda's record and reputation this generation but the Fallout name and next 'main' game in the series could very easily eradicate any bad taste that the spin-off will have left.

I know New Vegas was a great game too - even if that too was a spin-off, and people hope 4 would be more like New Vegas than Fallout 3 but there were a lot of people that enjoyed 4 and would buy 5 despite 76...

My point still stands that you cannot look at 76 as a way to show how far the franchise has fallen - its really like saying Assassin's Creed has fallen so far because of the Chronicles games and comparing those to whatever great new IP that was like the main AC games comes out.If anything, 76 is a sign that the Fallout franchise was 'big' enough to try a spin-off in its setting.

@BAMozzy just nailed it with just this paragraph:

"Saying that 'Fallout' has fallen so far away by considering a spin off as an example and using that to compare to a brand new IP that has its roots in the Single player RPG that was the main Fallout games is wrong."

Exactly what I'm saying, it's just insulting. Outer Worlds might be spectacular but it owes a lot to Fallout no matter how you look at it. Not to mention Obsidian made its name from FALLOUT: New Vegas.

@BAMozzy I am guessing you are too much a fan of Fallout to see what Robert is trying to say and are clouded by OMG they said something bad about Fallout, how dare they.

The thing is why's push something like Fallout 76 when it's clearly not the Fallout game people wanted? People wanted a Fallout game like The Outer Wprlds? Of course we can't compare The Outer Worlds to a single player Fallout cause Bethesda was greedy and didn't listen to it's fan base. Same with Fallout 4. If they would try and make a Fallout experience like New Vegas (or even 3 for that matter). People wouldn't compare The Outer Worlds to 76 or say the franchise has fallen but they refuse to listen to the fans and consumers instead they listen to the stockholders who I am sure don't care about the game like the fans and consumers do.

@TheArt @BAMozzy So you're saying Fallout hasn't fallen off a cliff with Fallout 76? You're saying The Outer Worlds isn't a reminder of what Fallout used to be? And that's including Fallout 4, which is not an RPG in the same way New Vegas or Fallout 3 were.

Lads, come on.

@ShogunRok That's not what I am saying at all. Fallout 76 is a disaster but I doubt it would have existed had the IP not been as big as it was. Its also a very different game though and not meant to be Fallout 5 but a Multiplayer set in the Fallout space.

You wouldn't say Elder Scrolls had fallen because of ESO at launch or say Halo had crashed rock bottom with Halo Wars because all of those are different games - spin offs that are using an IP and its lore as the basis for something different.

I have no issue with saying Fallout 4 was a disappointment - more because it felt dated instead of pushing the franchise forward on a new generation hardware. I also think though that Obsidian would love to be in a place where the Outer Worlds has had a few sequels and spin-offs with such a high brand recognition that Fallout has. Its not just games either as Fallout also has a lot of merchandise and recognisable imagery. As such, I can see Fallout 5 being a big game with a LOT of hype and excitement that the main series is back with another single player open world RPG.

The 'name' Fallout has been damaged with this spin-off but all those that wanted Fallout 5 and not some online multiplayer set in the Fallout world will be excited by it. Whether it delivers or disappoints, we will have to see but whilst Fallout as a franchise has had a 'bad' time during this current gen, I don't think its fallen yet to the point that gamers would question why Bethesda are continuing with this IP.

Its too early for the Outer Worlds to be anywhere near Fallout status - I bet Fallout merchandise will still be popular and has a big fanbase. I am certainly not saying the Outer Worlds hasn't been a reminder of how great Obsidian are and a reminder of how great Fallout 3 and New Vegas were. Fallout 4 though was Fallout 3.5 essentially and that was part of the problem - it wasn't a big enough step forward from those old last gen games that the Outer Worlds is reminding you of.

If anything, The Outer Worlds shows where Bethesda perhaps should have concentrated more on with Fallout 4 instead of adding some clunky base building bolted on to Fallout 3. I can understand why they decided to use Fallout as a Service based online game - partly because of the Fallout name which would be easier to market and something gamers would recognise, partly because they had all the assets to keep development costs low and the Elder Scrolls had been used already leaving them little options. It was an 'easy' option to use to create an open world multiplayer service based game but the disaster that was Elder Scrolls online was at launch, it didn't affect hype and excitement for ES6. Bethesda as a company are in a bad way right now with their Reputation but I would bet a Fallout 5 announcement would be met with excitement and hype as it will be returning to the Single Player RPG that Fallout fans want.

I am not denying that Fallout 76 has been a disaster and dragged the Fallout name right down but a LOT of that was down to it being a Spin-off that few people wanted and Bethesda haven't done anything to turn it around. If you think a Fallout 5 announcement would be met with the same animosity and disappointment the announcement and subsequent issues that 76 has, I think you would be wrong. You don't hear people saying how 'big' games have fallen when some spin off is released instead of a desired sequel.

@ShogunRok All I'm saying... especially to a lot of these comments is, after Obsidian has had 2 heavyweights like Elder Scrolls and Fallout in the industry then we can begin comparisons. Yea Fallout might have fallen off to some people but a lot of people still love 4 and are still playing Skyrim. Till Outer Worlds makes that mark then we can really begin the comparisons. But it's your soapbox and you can compare what you want but I mean... Skyrim shook grounds!

Loved Oblivion and Skyrim, not fussed about Fallout generally, but thought New Vegas was pretty good. Bethesda have gone down the pan a bit in recent years for sure. I am seriously tempted by The Outer Worlds though

@TheArt Well technically Behtesday only has had 3 Fallout games (Fallout 3, 4 and 76) and two out of the three were not very good to the fan base. The one that most people regard as the best was done by Obsidian. It's also funny how Bethesda doesn't like to mention New Vegas hardly.

@Genrou And would you? If you helped bring someone up and it so happens they're getting all the praise and people quickly forget to give you credit for it. Naturally, you're going to stop mentioning or associating with them so they can grow on their own and avoid the disrespectful comparisons.

Ah, the Internet. Same as it ever was.

@TheArt Thing is Fallout wasn't even Bethesda's to begin with. They didn't create the lore, the story, the factions etc. etc. It wasnt theirs to take credit for. Sure The Elder Scrolls, they can do that with if someone like Odsidian made The Elder Scrolls VI for example.

They did the same thing Obsidian did take someone else's ideas put there spin on it. The thing is they just are butthurt that Obsidian did it better then them. And alot of there fans are too because Bethesda isn't the all great company that they think they are.

@Ichiyama Same as it ever was.

@Genrou Maybe Outer Worlds can be all the RPG it wants to be in that 15/30hr length, compared to having a lot more going on in Fallout 4's roughly 30/75hrs length. Then there's the 3rd person, Outer Worlds is 1st only I hear, how'd you view all your apparel purchases or findings. Then there's Dogmeat. It might have strayed from the pure RPG path but Fallout 4 is no pushover. It's hours of FUN.

@TheArt Hours of fun???? Yeah ok, that's why I ended up turning off Fallout 4 after playing it a few hours an have played and beat New Vegas so many times I lost track.

While I will admit Fallout 4 is not a bad game, it's just a bad Fallout game if that makes sense at all.