Capcom, why? You were doing so well! Just when you're on the verge of thinking Capgod is back, the Japanese company does something really stupid to remind you that yes, this is still modern Capcom.
Aside from the divisive and now controversial Dante battle theme saga, Devil May Cry 5 has been shaping up brilliantly. It looks immaculate, it supposedly plays superbly, and Nero actually seems pretty cool. But then GameSpot goes and, er, spots the option to buy character upgrades with real money in the latest build of the game. Bloody typical.
Indeed, you can purchase orbs with real cash in Devil May Cry 5, using them to bolster the power of your characters. Orbs can, of course, be earned in-game, but being able to buy them in bulk with actual dosh opens up a whole load of questions. Will the game be properly balanced so that you aren't grinding for hours just to upgrade your heroes? Or will Capcom push you towards spending real money to speed up the process? It's impossible to say right now, but let's face it, publishers don't put microtransactions into their games unless they think that they'll make money.
GameSpot got the chance to ask director Hideaki Itsuno about the option to purchase orbs, and his response was: "With giving people the ability to purchase Red Orbs, it’s something we want to give people as an option. If they want to save time and just want to get all the stuff at once, those people can do that. But on the other hand I don’t feel you have to get all the moves." Yeah, doesn't exactly fill you with confidence, does it?
It's also worth noting that in Devil May Cry 5, orbs can be used to revive your character when they die. Spend some and you can respawn at your point of death, rather than at the last checkpoint. You have to spend more orbs to respawn with more health, and the cost goes up the more you use this feature. Potentially dodgy.
What do you make of this? Feel free to shake your head in the comments section below.
"...on the other hand, I don't feel you have to get all the moves"
Is this implying you have to grind like hell or buy red orbs to unlock everything?
Never change Capcom.
The moment I learned about this I scratched DMC5 off my list. Shadow of War is all the proof I needed to avoid any game with microtransactions, optional or not.
I won’t right it off just yet. Hopefully this won’t be a huge mess, but I won’t be surprised if it is.
Everybody is turning into Activision, except Sony.
Well now ill wait for the reviews instead of a blind preorder. GJ Capcom just after my favorite game MHW you just gone back to paying for a ending.... 😑
WTF CAPCOM wat were u thinking? u were on a huge roll wih monster hunter then announce resident evil 2 remake n dmc5 then u go do sum dumb like this, i thought this was a troll fake news, but this is real, never felt let down so hard like this
Sounds like the exact same thing EA says, we want to give players options.
The game was looking so good as well, I just don't see the need to add in mircotranstations.
Uh oh. Next up — You’re gonna have to buy ink ribbons in the Resident Evil 2 Remake to be able to save your game progress.
Dualshockers did an article earlier mentioning how many red orbs you get during play. It seems red orbs are used for revives as well unless you want to go back to the last checkpoint. Their conclusion was the game seems fair but the game could be rebalanced again.
Capcom just giving us pplllaaayeeer choooicee, lol.
But seriously, this change the game from "preorder the digital deluxe edition" to "wait until I'm 100% sure the economy is not balanced for real money". Sigh.
Edit: Also can capcom be more creative? Like, sell us $5 weapon or costume or anything after the game launch or something rather than screwing the economy (orb) that's already in the game. Make us pay for new things rather than pay for whats already in the game capcom 😠
I swear, if Resident Evil 2 includes microtransactions, I'm gonna scream.
Oh no, a company gives players, in a SINGLE player game, the OPTION to upgrade if they're less skilled or just want to get upgrades quicker. Lets sound the alarm and boycott. This is seriously dumb stuff to cry over and I blame game 'journalists' particularly in the Western territories, for as much of the bs as anybody. Instead of waiting until they get an idea how orbs are handed out they jump the gun and assume it will be unfair. Capcom did just release RE 7 and Monster Hunter: World, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this.
Hype killed. :/
Microtransactions def shouldn't be a thing in Devil May Cry 5 or elsewhere in video games, its greedy and funnily enough still results in the closure of talented developers despite earning so much money from gullible customers. Still, I don't understand the alarm to go far has shatter the confidence in the game, its looking good so if you hate it that much just buy it used. DMC4se had the same kind of microtransactions. It was hardly an issue at all getting everything in that game. If Devil may Cry 5 weren't the using the same models, it'll totally be wrong so I hope they don't get tempted or do anything fishy with RE2. Honestly all this outrage be it of youtube or social media is wasted, companies really need to get a stronger message that this rubbish isn't wanted.
It happened...it finally happened.
They came for a game I care about.
I know I can't cuss on this site but I am...a little beyond miffed right now.
@pimpjuice I know your upset but that doesn't mean you need to use language like that. Further more you have been warned about your language in the past.
Please be mindful of the community rules when posting next time you won't get a warning.
WB said exactly the same BS "option" talk with Shadow of War, only to, months later, remove the microtransactions entirely and having to completely rebalance the game's economy. This is ridiculous. I didn't buy SoW because of that and I'm not buying DMCV after this.
Why is this an uproar or a surprise? They did this with DMC4 Special Edition and no one said anything about it, of course they put it in their latest DMC game.
My friends and I certainly didn't have any issues playing DMC4 or Shadow of War without them, boycott if you want, I'll be enjoying the game and not giving them any extra money.
@wiiware They sold costumes and skins in DMC4SE, I'm sure we'll get the same in DMC5.
@Gamer83 I'm leaning towards benefit of the doubt as well. If the devs who make the game make it to work the way it should, ,1200 orbs per weapon or whatever, and the game plays fine, and then the money guys at HQ want to sell you 1,000 orbs for $5 just b/c, well that's fine. I rarely if ever hear anyone complain when a game like DQXI gives you 5 free skill seeds for pre-ordering. So if it's like a pre-order bonus, only it's a pay for it bonus, well that's fine. As long as the game is developed before the money managers got involved. If it's $60-to-start and you need to pay real money for each weapon, well that's a whole other story.
But they've made so many DmC games at this point, which all pretty much work the same, if they want to give people the option to buy every weapon Day 1 they would normally unlock for free anyway, well that wont' bother me any.
Though it will require a review now to make sure. Not that I was buying it before it hit $20 anyway, but I'm not buying a really hard game and then paying for easy mode.
I might still preorder this but I'll probably just wait for a Black Friday sale now.
@adf86 That's a terrible idea. It should just be go to the last checkpoint. This is affecting game design. Somethings just shouldn't be option in terms of difficulty.
@Gamer83 The red orbs revives just reek of greed combined with these mictrotransactions especially since it's just sounds like a bad option to have. Sometimes even giving an option like can be bad game design. DMC was never supposed to be an easy series. I just don't trust them to treat the MT as an afterthought.
Why do these companies keep saying it's about player choice? It's not, it's about greed and making more money and that's it. If it was player choice have an option in the menu for free or a cheat code, not to mention that if you think people would like to pay to skip playing your game, then you probably haven't made a good game in the first place.
Secondly the it's "optional" nonsense has to stop, it's not optional as many games have proven that for these to exist they have to design the game around them, whether you buy them or not, so everyone is affected. Look at Battlefront 2 and Shadow of War, those games had to be completely rebalanced when such things were removed to make them work properly, so was that optional?
I hope Capcom sees sense and removes this nonsense or by some fluke it doesn't completely unbalance the game especially as they have been riding so high recently. The real shame is that this has gone from a definite pre-order to I'll have to wait and see how it turns out.
I'll speak with my wallet.
Keep micro-transaction away from my paid game.
I’m not sure if I’m more frustrated that Capcom seem to have forgotten that the journey and challenge is what makes this sort of game work, or that there is a group of people out there that will buy this so they can quickly platinum a game to impress a friends list that doesn’t actually care about how clever you are for robbing yourself of the content of a game.
The only reason Capcom does it is because they know people will pay for it.
"...on the other hand, I feel I will not buy this game"
Microtransactions have no place in a single playergame we payed £50 for. No exceptions.
I'm NOT willing to give Capcom the benefit of the doubt here. Chances are, the grind has been artificially extended and the game balanced with microtransactions in mind. And when that happens, it makes a game considerably less fun. Pass.
I refuse to buy any micro transactions as a matter of principle and I don't see that ever changing if that means I don't play certain games then so be it
Scum. Cash for cheat codes.
I'm not going to rob myself the ability to play DMC V, but I won't support them for including MTX in a single player game.
Pre-owned it is.
Can you imagine microtransactions in a Monster Hunter or a Souls game?
"Ehi, you stupid! Don't you know you can just buy the weapon/armor you want without spending time killing enemies and exploring the map?"
Wow. They sure now how to kill hype for a game....
Oh Capcom, and you were doing so well with RE7 and MHW and the E3 presentations... now this. I don't want to save time on games, I want to you know, actually enjoy playing them. Saving time is something I think about when it comes to chores.
I think I'll wait and see the final product before I fall into rumour traps. However if I wanted to complete the game easily I'd rather choose easy/casual option than pay microtransactions.
How about you just give single player games cheat codes, you know invincibility, all the moves, whatever!! You don't have to make people pay to get all of the stuff at once in their paid games, there are other design options. I understand they probably won't affect the game too much but it's the insidious creep of these transactions into single player games we should be worried about. No time for this nonsense.
Sucks but I'm still buying it.
You can earn them in game whats the problem? if someone wants to spend the money they have worked hard to earn on something they enjoy then I have no issue with it.
I don't get Capcom Monster Hunter World, RE2 Remake which now everyone will be monitoring closely now I bet they will add MTs for ammo and extra ribbons and mentions in comment above
@hotukdeals I'm ok if devs get extra cash thanks to people wasting their money for aesthetics add-ons, but I also fear that minor MTX can soon become a trojan horse to MTX that could ruin the main game experience.
In Theme Park you could fool your visitors just increasing the salt percentage in your chips to sell them more drinks. The problem is: are devs gonna add extra grinding just to sell us MTX?
From Hero to Zero in 1 go. Off the list
@Gamer83 Yeah but it's this kind of attitude that allows publishers to get away with more and more crap. Stuff like Destiny 2's shaders, for example. It needs to be pointed out and then stamped out or companies start taking the p*ss — we've seen it countless times before.
It's been confirmed that it works the same way as in DMC4SEE, which is to say, they're irrelevant.
@Deadlyblack So it's the same as any other DMC then? In previous games it's nearly impossible to unlock every upgrade on the first play through, you either need to replay on the higher difficulties or grind in Bloody Palace to get everything. This is probably just for the casuals who'll only play it once on normal and not touch it again.
... and with that DMC5 has dropped from a „maybe I’ll buy it“ to „maybe I’ll buy it for 15 in some sale someday“ - farewell for now Dante
Added this bit to the article, which I think is absolutely worth worrying over:
"It's also worth noting that in Devil May Cry 5, orbs can be used to revive your character when they die. Spend some and you can respawn at your point of death, rather than at the last checkpoint. You have to spend more orbs to respawn with more health, and the cost goes up the more you use this feature. Potentially dodgy."
"Is this implying you have to grind like hell or buy red orbs to unlock everything?"
Hasn't that been the case in most games anyway?
There have already been clarifications that the orb economy won't make this game any more of a grind than the previous DMC games were. If anything, it's even easier to get everything, WITHOUT the microtransactions.
I would expect the uninformed masses to blow a fuse over nothing at all, but I expect better from supposed game journalists.
@Orpheus79V No need to use logic. Just outrage.
@Nickolaidas There have been one too many times lately that journalists, even here (though they don't call themselves journalists, so I guess it's ok?), have blown things way out of proportion, so no surprise really. It's all about them hits.
I'm confused. DMC4SE has microtransactions (even has one package of 300000 Red Orbs).
Until the game releases, how about people calm down. If you are on the fence about the game, wait to see what the reviewers have to say.
I don’t care for myself. The devs always seem to make this stuff easy to ignore in AAA games.
I don’t like these companies preying on it’s customers, but at the same time, in order to make these games, you have to ensure you’re going to make your money back.
@Nickolaidas they aren’t journalists.
@Wesker Well they should still do some research before posting articles with the intention of riling people up.
@naruball @Nickolaidas This is some backwards logic. What good possibly comes from ignoring it?
I find all the outrage over microtransactions tiring, I really do, but there's no getting away from the fact that they're bullsh*t, especially in a single player game.
Get that crap outta here.
@Th3solution. hahaha thats a good one.blue ribbons.word up son
@ShogunRok "I know your upset but that doesn't mean you need to use language like that. Further more you have been warned." Sincerely Tasuki😝😂
Now on a serious note I 💯 % agree with you down with the scummy practices
@ShogunRok Backwards logic? You referring to me or you?
Look - if Dante's movelist was all but unobtainable via regular means (i.e. playing the game for 2000 hrs to unlock everything unless you cough up real cash), then I'd agree with you.
But this isn't what this is. Here, in this game, it's an option. Either play the game for 8-20 hrs (a timeframe which resembles those in the past DMC games) to unlock everything, or pay up 5-10 bucks extra to unlock everything from the get go.
There's absolutely no reason to hate microtransactions if they're done like this. Heck, if anything, this is EXACTLY how MTXs should go - a way for those who don't wish to invest some time in the game to unlock everything WITHOUT ruining it for those who want to unlock everything in a reasonable timeframe.
But sure, let's all melt the internet because hating MTXs after BFII is the cool thing to do.
If I am ever tempted to pay to bypass the reward structure of your game, then your gameplay loop is poorly designed. Who is this for? People who want to play the game but don't want to play the game? Easy mode used to be free.
Microtransactions have no reason to be in this game, or any other full price single player game, except as meaningless aesthetic peripheral content.
Fair enough. However, microtransactions were in DMC 4 SE and didn't effect the game at all. If they work the same here, it's hardly this huge issue you're all turning it into. Not all microtransactions are created equal, just like not all other forms of DLC are the same.
@Gamer83 I agree, but I still think it's worth calling it out when it happens in a game like this, where we've had nothing but good news and the title in question sounds great.
@Nickolaidas No, I feel the conversation ends at "there are microtranactions in a single player game". Whether they turn out to be intrusive or not doesn't factor into the argument — at least not yet. Ideally they take nothing away from the game, but the simple fact that they're incorporated in the first place is cause to be concerned.
I think just fobbing it off as "it'll be fine" is naive.
@ShogunRok It's also naïve to consider they're intrusive when the facts so far say otherwise.
But hey, don't let that stop you from raising torches and pitchforks.
Not the first time microtransactions have been in single player games. Again they were there in DMC 4 and didn't effect a damn thing. Lets be real here. Capcom isn't Rockstar or a Sony first party, which is an instant free pass on PushSquare, so that's why everybody is so 'concerned.'
Bang bang bang pull my wallet's trigger
@Gamer83 No, but let's not pretend that Capcom doesn't have a long and recent history of screwing things up pretty badly.
@Nickolaidas Don't think that's naive, more cautionary. When you're pointing out something that potentially impacts a game's design for worse, then that's certainly not naive, is it?
@Nickolaidas Juar because they say it doesn't make it true.
@b1ackjack_ps The gold orb was bought beforehand though, and wasn't tossed in front of your face like "infinite revives" or "you don't have enough red orbs, buy more?" They will be tossed into your face in the game most likely. Capcom claiming it won't affect the grind also doesn't make it so. Believing a claim they can't prove like that makes no sense.
Honestly, I agree. I'm of the opinion that microtransactions are not inherently evil, it's how they're used. This article is automatically assuming they WILL be used in a rather negative way and isn't even entertaining the idea that they won't. Of course, this is also how you spark fan discussion and a rather smart way of going about it as well.
Using Shadow of War as an example, a lot of people boycotted the game purely for the fact it had microtransactions but I literally did everything in the game WITHOUT microtransactions. They're usually just there for the older gamers who have jobs, families, etc and may not be as skilled as younger folks who typically have better reflexes and more free time to spend.
There is another side to this though, which is the side we see a lot more lately. Just the fact they exist is often times a red flag. Given that microtransactions are often used in scummy ways, it's no surprise that there's a surge of negativity and I myself let out a small sigh upon seeing that they're in the game.
Other than that, I'm honestly not that interested in this game unless it comes anywhere near the level DMC3 was for me. That was my favorite DMC game and it's pretty much the only one I need unless 5 turns out to be as good or better.
@Gamer83 I understand your complaint about complaints. However, I think Capcom put them in the game, because they want us to buy them. They can steer us in the right direction by adding in an unacceptable grind, or some other way of impacting gameplay to push us towards purchasing. I don't like how game design can be influenced by MTs. Single player games can suffer as much as multiplayer in this regard.
I agree with you that Capcom does have a history of screwing things up badly. So does pretty much every other company in the industry minus a few. The recent track record, however, is much better so I'm not going to lose my mind over this, just yet. Especially since if I got pissed over every dumb thing companies do these days I would be playing Yakuza, the new God of War, a few Switch games and that's it. If things do go south with microtransactions in DMC V, I'll be the first to admit you were right.
As long as the game can be beaten without purchasing this dumb stuff that's all I care about. I'm one of the problems with this industry. Unlike others who can't see the error of their ways I know I've made some bad purchasing decisions. Season passes for a game I've playing and enjoying? Count me in. Announcing a season pass for a game I haven't played but am very confident in like Spider-Man? Yup, bought The City That Never Sleeps DLC a few days before the game officially released. So I'm part of the reason microtransactions and all other forms of DLC exist, but again, I don't think all are the same either. I'll buy cosmetic stuff if they have a cool looking outfit or a bada$$ weapon that makes the game even more fun to play, price depending of course. Skill upgrades? Won't even consider it. I'll grind as best I can if I have to, to get all the powerups but as long as I can get the basic ones easy enough that allows me to complete the game, I'm good.
The publishers have brought some of the heat on themselves, no question about that. I generally like the discussion too, but I'd like to know about more about how the game is balanced before we get too deep into that. For many, that will mean waiting for reviews or feedback from friends, which is fine. I just really think the shouts of 'boycott' are insane. Especially since people call for boycotts over everything in games these days.
I'd be #delighted to shake my head here in the comments section below. At everyone and their mother jumping the gun. As per usual.
DMC4SE also had bloodpoints available for purchase with real money. No one mentioned it or cared. I'm doubtful most of you even knew about it. It wasn't intrusive, you would get bloodpoints at the exact same rate as you did in the vanilla version. New players could slowly grow accustomed to Nero & Dante's moves by playing through the game, naturally acquiring the orbs and buying the moves the normal way, whereas I, thankfully, could instantly get my moves as I'd already spent many, many hours toying around with them.
DMC to me has never been about beating the game. Not even on the hardest difficulty. It's p*ss easy. What truly makes the game amazing is its incredible combo system. And no, I'm not talking about keeping that SSTYLISH meter as high as you can. I'm talking about jump cancelling into oblivion. (Of course, that's not all, but it's fun as hell). And to have the most freedom doing that, I want - and need - the entire moveset available to me. Until then I just feel limited. Look up some DMC3 or 4 combo videos and you'll understand what I'm talking about.
So I guess the "stupid reason" (cheers for that, by the way) for buying bloodorbs to me, would be instantly unlocking those moves so I can have fun with the game the way I want to have fun with it. So far there's no indication that buying these orbs are intrusive - after having paid some attention to the demo gameplay, you seem to get the bloodorbs in a very similar fashion. Of course they could make the moves stupidly expensive still, but we don't know that. So for the love of Christ, stop making a drama out of everything without knowing the full ins and outs.
I hate the modern day "let's be outraged about everything" culture. I also urge everyone to read an insightful article about the bloodpoint gain posted at DualShockers, it adds a lot of value to the discussion - https://www.dualshockers.com/devil-may-cry-5-red-orbs-playing-normally/
@Arjan127 There is no drama.
The drama is coming from people like yourself who are blindly defending ridiculously crap business practises.
If you want to spend your money on in-game upgrades that's absolutely fine, but let's not pretend like DMC5 needs microtransactions and they somehow benefit the game.
Remember Dead Space 3? That's what happens when this stuff goes unchecked, and even defended.
Remember Shadow of War? Same story. Destiny 2, and dozens more.
Don't normalise this, you deserve better and so does everyone else.
Also, the idea that cosmetics are okay MT I’d also crap. They make a difference and cools designs can help make a game big time. It’s part of the game same as anything else. Imagine locking better textures behind MTs because it’s “cosmetics.”
I wonder if they'll have spare checkpoints which make it too painful to reach the boss in order to push those red orb revivals. If it were EA, it would be a definite yes.
@wiiware Just when you start to like them....
Stupid Bethesda, bantering those who need to Git Gud instead of selling them MTX...
@ShogunRok So you're saying that there is no drama, and people like me are responsible for creating drama. Right.
have you read any comments or any article addressing the MTx in DMC5? You even said yourself you find all the outrage over microtransactions tiring.
You say I'm blindy defending it. OK. That's an interesting take on my comment. Would you mind telling me how such is the case? I believe I implied that people need to stop jumping the gun. There have clearly been past implementations of micro-transactions that were dreadful, as per the examples you've named. There were also ones that were completely fine, like the example I named in my previous comment. Done by the same company. In the same game franchise. Tales of Vesperia is another example.
I'll just say this in case I wasn't clear enough: What I would like, is for people to stop judging things, calling it "stupid" and "garbage" when no one knows how exactly they'll turn out and/or affect the game, if at all. By all means, cancel your preorder. Being cautious is a good thing. It's always good to wait for reviews and stuff. But only then can you actually make a judgement call based on facts, and not just mindless speculation, with all this mob mentality going around.
I do not get why we always have to be so extremely anti- or extremely pro- something. It's silly.
You know, this makes me a bit confused about Capcom. Being a long-time fan of Monster Hunter, I'm surprised that Capcom hasn't taken advantage of the RNG elements of those games' core gameplay loop of praying to RNGsus and the Desire Sensor for monster parts, and just completely destroyed those games with micro-transactions. MH even has free DLC updates, so it's sad to see micro-transactions in a different Capcom game. Hopefully the are strictly optional and their presence doesn't make going through DMC5 any less fun.
@Arjan127 I'm not saying Devil May Cry 5 is ruined and no one should buy it, I'm saying having microtransactions in a full price single player game is ridiculous, and should be called out as such.
It is stupid. It's really stupid. Capcom has been on a roll for a long time now and suddenly it's being stupid. Why are microtransactions in a Devil May Cry game in 2018? How is it anything but stupid?
And if going on a six paragraph rant about how this whole thing is absolutely fine isn't blindly defending it, then I don't know what is. You say we shouldn't do this because we haven't played it, but the opposite is true as well. You can't just say "this is okay" when you haven't played the finished game. All I ask for is caution.
Given the examples I listed, people have every right to be cynical when it comes to microtransactions. These companies exist to make money. They don't put microtransactions in games thinking everyone will just ignore them — they're there for a reason, and it's not "giving the player options".
Did God of War need microtransactions? Did Spider-Man? Does any single player character action game need them? No, but apparently Devil May Cry 5 does.
@ShogunRok ... but I'm not saying it's okay. Nor am I saying that it isn't. We do not know whether it is or not. There are examples of bad implementations. There are examples of good implementations. We do not yet know what the case will be here, as it isn't out yet. How is this blindly defending it?
It may be stupid. It doesn't have to be. DMC4SE had purchasable blood orbs, which was perfect for players like me who just wanted all the moves right off the bat. Because like I tried to explain before, that's where the real fun is at for me. Messing around with a complete moveset. And it would be great if these transactions were to be implemented in a way to give me that option, but to let others just play through the game and upgrade their characters slowly & steadily like they would in the previous games. Surely we can agree on this? Something to compliment everyone's playstyle? You can play the game the way you want to, and so can I.
It's fine to be cynical. I even addressed it by saying not to preorder, but instead wait for reviews so we know for sure how this affects things. Be cautious. Even when there is no apparent reason for it. (And I'm not saying microtransactions aren't a reason to be cautious, they definitely are).
I realise I keep repeating myself and reiterating the same thing over and over, but apparently I'm not getting my point across lol. All I'm saying is to hold your horses until we know for sure how this impacts the game. If it does so, negatively, then I'm more than happy to call it out for what it is: bullsh*t. I really don't see how this means I'm blindly defending it. I'm just tired of the outrage, just like you said you were. I wish people would calm down until all the facts are out there.
@Arjan127 Why wait for a SoW or SW:Battlefront 2 post-release revamp? Why not let them know we don’t want it beforehand? I also don’t think “good implementations” exist, just some that aren’t so bad.
Oh dear Capcom what are you doing
@Jaz007 I guess I'm very much a proponent of "don't knock it before you try it". Having an open mind is good. Gamers as a community have the power to make game devs change things in their game if it turns out to be crap, but straight out trying to block things - someone's vision - before they even had the chance to fully present it to you, may very well not be for the best. That's just how I see it. I know this is about microtransactions and I don't disagree that they're frequently implemented in ways to "force" players into buying them, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Besides, the end result of a post-release revamp or having them change it beforehand may not even be that different. If they have to do it post-release, you may as well regard it as the game being delayed, right? Cos until the revamp, it's crap and not worth playing (or even paying for). Whereas if you make them change it prior to release, the devs will still have to revamp pretty much everything, all the things they've had planned, which will more than likely result in a delay anyway. The only real difference being that with the former, you know for certain what's wrong with the game and why it's bad, whereas with the latter you have no real facts, just speculation and theories.
I hope I'm making sense here
@Arjan127 I think ultimately we just want the same thing, and that's for DMC5 to be a good game. The thing is, it's been looking amazing based on everything we've seen so far, and because of that, it seems like such a shame for it to have microtransactions.
Like, ideally, I don't want to write this article. Ideally, DMC5 doesn't have in-game purchases. Again, it's just such a shame that the game's now got this stain on its coverage.
I get where you're coming from — obviously it's always best to actually see how things work out before calling everything off immediately. And I'm with you, I don't like the "outrage" culture on the internet these days.
But at the same time, like we've both said now, it pays to be cautious with this kind of thing. We're just coming at it from different angles.
And I do apologise if I came across as quite prickly — but that's just because I think the article is totally justified, and you do see a lot of poor arguments that are almost in favour of microtransactions that boggle my mind.
But yeah, you never know. Maybe Capcom will hear the feedback and take them out. Or maybe they just won't impact the game and we'll all be happy.
@ShogunRok Completely agree with you, and I do apologise as well for coming off quite combative. I guess it's a bit of a result of this outrage culture as well. Either you're with us or against us - so it's easy to take things to the extreme if someone doesn't wholly 100% agree nowadays, or just has the slightest difference with their viewpoints. The best result here is a game that makes everyone happy and allows everyone to play however they want, with no negative impacts. Let's just hope (and perhaps pray a little) for that!
@Arjan127 I get what you’re saying, but to me, it’s a neutral thing in the game, or a very bad thing. No upside, and a big potential downside. To me that’s enough reason to knock for before trying it. There’s no benefit to counterbalance the downside.
And a game should be delayed rather than revamped later, and it’s a big difference. By then I’ll have played it a decent bit and had some initial interest killed off. It’s already a investment of time and money, and needing to wait after making those investments is just unacceptable.
I don't really care, you don't have to pay for any of it. I just see it as stupidity tax.
''it's all about player choice.'' You know what's a great choice? Not buying the game, talk about player choice, saved me €60
In all seriousness, there's only two things I need to know. 1. No game has ever benefited from micro-transactions. And 2. Publishers don't put them in the game if they have no intention of selling them.
By saying things like ''it’s something we want to give people as an option.'' It sounds to me as, we made a crap game, please spend some money to skip the bad parts. That's not our fault. That's on the developers. If the game is too grindy, boring or unbalanced, that shouldn't be fixed with MTX, go back to the drawing board!
And it's just silly when they talk about ''player choice'', ''an option'', etc. when there's also a healthy amount of games that prove you don't need MTX to offer ''player choice'': God of War, Spider-Man, even Capcom's own Monster Hunter World! (plenty of free updates and support!)
We spend €60 on a game... just to spend even more and skip parts of it. What kind of logic is that?
@Gamer83 It's not just about this game, you do realize these companies only test the waters at first to see what they can get away with right?
If we support this habit more companies will think it's okay to add microtransactions to every game, next thing you know they will mess with the progression system in order to make their microtransactions more appealing, just like they did with BFII. Have you learned nothing from Star Wars BFII and Shadow of War.
If you don't realize what these companies true motives are then you will be just like BFII fans when your favorite game releases and the game is ruined just so these companies can squeeze a few more dollars out of those who bought your favorite game.
It's about the principles of the matter and not getting swindled over a companies greed, not being cheap or a bunch of whiners.
@malbhet I think micro transactions are fine, the bills have to get paid somehow and $60 for a modern AAA game is absurdly low; however pay-to-win micro transactions are a big no-no. This seems to be the case with DmC5. I especially do not like the "insert a coin to continue" tactic. Eliminating a lot of the games difficulty if you just pay up.
Yeah I agree, we live in an "outrage" society. I'm down for waiting to see how it develops. If it looks like it's going to be good, I'll pick it up, microtransactions be damned.
Of course if it turns out that said microtransactions ARE intrusive, it wouldn't be hard for me to take a pass. All this talk of canceling preorders and the like are kind of insane to me, too.
@thedevilsjester ''$60 for a modern AAA game is absurdly low''.
Assuming they make $20 per game (and that's lowballing it since profit margins on digital are higher), and sell 3-5 million copies across PS4, Xbox and PC, that's 60-100 million in revenue. And that's a very safe estimate, without digital, deluxe editions, etc. 60-100 million should be enough to cover a modern AAA game. If they can't do it with a budget like that, I wonder where it went wrong. Or have the balls to ask $80 for it if that's what think they really need.
But this market is as transparent as a thick wall of lead. Of course they won't tell you how much it really takes to make a profit. And even if a game does make a profit, plenty of publishers are way to quick to call it a failure, because it didn't meet their expectations, it didn't make all the money.
Either way, I strongly dislike the piecemeal distribution of games these days. I just want the full package day one with no additional spendings. You need more than $60? Ask more, but you need to bring your A game in order to convince me.
@thedevilsjester Go right on ahead and enjoy, it's your money. All I know is I'm not buying it lol:D
If we consider the start of the games industry to be 1985 (NES!), AAA games were $50. Today, the same amount of money, adjusted for inflation (+ 127.81%) is almost $120. Yet we pay only $60. Thats not even taking into account the size, scale, and complexity of todays games, and the number of people that are required to make such titles which raises that cost of development dramatically.
There is a bigger audience today, so some of that cost is recouped by sheer volume, but not enough. Its estimated that even with the volume increase, the average price for a AAA title should be roughly $100.
No AAA studio is going to ask for that, because most gamers would cry foul, so their solution is to trick many players into paying that by offering a cheaper up front cost.
You are right though, they should be able to make a game on a much smaller budget. I enjoy God of War, but I also enjoy Thomas Was Alone. Everything doesn't need to be hyper realistic to be an enjoyable experience.
I am a developer and a gamer, so its difficult to fully side with one or the other. I understand why things are how they are, but I don't like it.
@thedevilsjester Well, remember that cartridges are a lot more expensive to produce than discs. Several dollars versus a few cents. SNES cartridges could cost up to $15, and some N64 games were $30. So the fact that those games are on a cartridge inflates the price too. Those games also came in big boxes, so shipping and storage was naturally more expensive too. So you didn't actually pay $50 for the content of the NES game, you were also paying for the expensive cartridges, shipping and storage. Those costs today are almost negligible with blu-ray, and they are negligible with digital. The push for digital is another way publishers use to maximise their profits, by cutting the middle man out. That could save them up to 33% of the costs, assuming the platform holder, the publisher and the retailer take equal cuts. So whilst it seems that prices haven't changed a lot, the profit per game has increased a lot for publishers. And that's what counts when we're talking about recouping development costs.
But like I said, there's no transparency. They never tell you how much it actually costs to make a game, how much profit they make per game, etc. And even if they do, you can bet they will inflate that number as much as possible to make it seem more impressive.
And by the way, funny you start about God of War, another good example of a great, profitable game that didn't have micro-transactions, once again proving that AAA games can easily exist without them
A AAA title costs a lot of money to develop.
If a company is using their own money to fund the game then a failure (not selling enough titles at $60 each) could be catastrophic. I have seen many, many, developers close up shop because of this. Transparent or not, its obvious that they didn't make enough when the company folds.
If a company is using borrowed money and the investors are not certain that the money is going to be made back by sales alone, they heavily lean on the studio to do whatever they can to get more money out of the sales that they are likely to have. Of course, this can back fire and get fewer core sales because of it, but its a risk.
It all comes down to: If there are micro transactions, those funding the project are not confident in the games ability to produce a profit on the cost of the sales alone, and to either stay afloat, or to appease investors (or both), a company decides to include micro transactions.
Of course, some companies don't need to do this, and are just greedy, and some companies would rather risk it all with each title (either out of confidence or principle), than to include them; but I think you will find most companies fall into the middle: just doing whatever they have to do to make developing games profitable for their company, whatever that means.
Personally, I would gladly pay $10-$20 more for a title by a company willing to put it all on the line.
Don't see why everyone is so mad. If they're just there to speed up the process and nothing is locked behind a paywall or made harder to get then it's fine. People just see the word microtransactions and get upset because it's the cool thing to do.
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