Report: AMD's Next-Gen Graphics Tech Is Being Built Specifically for PS5

So would this leave Microsoft stuck having to customize Vega tech for the next Xbox(es), or would that mean that Sony would now be commanding a portion of sales profits for every licensed Navi-based GPU that would go into the NeXbox?

I'm actually looking forward to the PS5, since the PS4 is their first console since PS1 to not use a proprietary (non-BC) chip. I already have PS2-4 hooked up, i'd like to clear some room next gen

@get2sammyb I suppose we'll know soon enough.

@get2sammyb Nothing to do with this article. Can you write the best racing wheels for PS4 please?

We need @BAMozzy explaining this all

@Octane That's what I was going to say. It all makes sense then!

As for me, I will adopt early if b/c is a part for Ps4, otherwise I will wait and see. That said - it's next gen is ON

@Octane Basically its more to do with the custom features that Sony want in their next GPU and as such AMD are going to be building this 'codenamed' Navi. Vega 7nm isn't coming to gamers but 'Navi' is and its performance is going to be 'similar' to Vega but no doubt have some 'custom' features (like the current Pro has FP16 support and the ability to track objects for better checkerboard rendering - neither of which are in an Xbox X GPU).

Maybe AMD will have their own roadmap and codename for MS's GPU but Vega is primarily designed for Apple and Navi is primarily designed for Sony. No doubt there are similarities between the two of these as well.

What is interesting is that AMD changed their Roadmap with Navi 10 arriving in 2019 - maybe to coincide with a late 2019 - early 2020 PS5 but they also have Navi 14 and Navi 20. 14 is expected 'soon' after and Navi 20 is going to be a true High-end GPU based on 7nm and expected in 2020/21

Navi is also breaking away from the GCN architecture. Mark Cerny has stated that a new Gen console is defined by new architecture which could also mean that Backwards Compatibility may well be 'difficult' if not impossible to implement. It may also be why its being developed for Sony as MS may want a more 'familiar' architecture to keep their consoles in the same 'family' rather than have a completely new start with a new gen.

Anyway, that's how I see things at the moment...

With the current Gen, the GPU's are essentially like taking a 'stock' GPU and 'tweaking' it for the needs of the manufacturer. Bolting on or taking out features where as Navi is being built from the ground up specifically for Sony. Its not taking an RX480 for example and disabling a few cores for better yield, bolting on FP16 etc and putting that into an APU.

Specifically for PS5 or next-gen consoles in general?

@viciousarcanum Its seems its being built specifically for Sony as its also different architecturally. It seems that Sony have approached AMD and given them the 'blueprint' for what they want rather than taking an existing GPU and customising it for their needs.

Here we go, everyone. Strap in, it's going to be a fun and interesting ride up to the PS5's official announcement and reveal.

Wait...

Sony's PS5 will have an architecturally unique and fully independent GPU?

Did no one get the message that proprietary architecture makes things harder or am I just missing some logic here? Part of the bonus to PS4 is that it's so close to PC it makes porting insanely easy.

Did we miss the proprietary PS2 architecture being a headache?

@Knuckles-Fajita agreed. i think the new chip will run on the same architecture as ps4 and pc video cards in order to prevent problematic situations for developers and to ensure ps4 games run on ps5. not a chance ps5 will not be fully b/c with ps4 games... with a new architecture, they would need to resort to emulation and nobody wants that.

@Porco It also just dawned on me.

If AMD is making Navi specifically for PS5 and nothing else, (Because we havent learned yet apparently) then that means the PS5 will need to cover the cost of R&D specific to that chipset.

But on top of that, it locks Navi away from the next Xbox.

Which means said Xbox will need to use a more off-the-shelf part based on an existing GPU. Likely, this would be a GPU also available to PCs, because Xbox likely won't have AMD make a GPU specifically for them like this.

This means not only will the Xbox therefore be cheaper due to the lower costs of production, itll be easier to develop for using known PC hardware instead of custom GPUs unique to it.

Oh...oh dear. Let's hope it doesn't pan out that way?

@Octane I was thinking "Super BAMozzy to the rescue" but now we need somebody to translate his college course into a high school elective for the rest of us.

Me, I'm mostly just concerned about what this does to the launch timeline. The title - "Is Being Built" - had me thinking PS5 could be many years away yet. The well worth the read wccftech linked to at the end of the article seems to like 2020. I'm ok w/ 2020. Preferably early 2020 w/ H:ZD2 as a launch title, Sony likes it's Feb/March games. That would make GoW2 Feb/March 2021, three years after the first.

@gamer83 If Sony is waiting on new GPU tech 2020 is looking more likely than 2019. I'm guessing you've been around long enough to recall PS3 being delayed a year for the blu ray drive. At least that was the rumour. Sony might have to wait on the chip.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/report-sony-admits-ps3-delay-possible/1100-6144963/

Interesting tidbit I had forgotten about - Sony had planned to launch the PS3 in May. Sooooo, maybe they'll plan a PS5 launch for May 2020?

I think it helps that Sony have always been a hardware company and can work with AMD to produce something bespoke. Whereas Microsoft are mainly a software company and more likely to simply purchase the components they need. It will be interesting if Microsoft try and release a new console the same time as Sony again or wait a bit longer to know what they are competing with not only on the power front but price as well.

@rjejr
I still have a hard time seeing a PlayStation console launched anytime before the fall, May would seem particularly weird. Never know of course. I think a lot also depends on moves MS makes in addition to waiting on new technology.

When I hear the word Navi all I hear is.....

Listen

It better be a custom system-on-chip of Ryzen 5 (or higher).

What you also have to remember is that this may not be 'FACT' - although some of it could have some fact in it. There are reports that also state Navi is actually 'ready' (From Forbes: Either way, the conversations I had referred to Navi in the past tense, as if it was already finished) but being held back because Sony aren't ready for it yet.

There are reports that it won't be a SoC but separates. The fact that there is a roadmap for Navi 14 and Navi 20 - both of which are coming out within a few years of Navi 10 (the GPU component expected in the PS5) does seem to indicate that it will not be 'exclusive' to PS5 - why make a 'High-end' version due out in 2020/21 - especially if the PS5 does launch in 2020 and its 'exclusive' to Sony's Playstation? If they were going for a PS5 Pro, then you would think Navi 20 would be the most likely option and that wouldn't be required until 2023-ish.

Can you honestly see AMD dropping out of both the PC and Xbox console space because their GPU that was expected to challenge nVidia is now 'exclusive' to Sony? Although there are rumours that Navi's desktop won't compete with nVidias High End PC GPU's and I have seen some that say it will be better than a 1080Ti

The reports also state that the PS5 is using Zen+ shrunk down to 7nm - not Zen2 which is 7nm - so instead of using something that is 7nm, they are taking Zen+ and shrinking that down instead...

Navi 10 is the same performance as a Vega 7nm and expected in the 2nd half of 2019 (although 'could' arrive in 2020 but if its expected in the 2nd half of 2019, that could work for Sony to launch late in 2019, Nov for Christmas with the first runs or the first half of 2020 - it worked for Switch and Sony have had launches in March in some areas - the PS3 in EU for example.

There are a number of irregularities in the reports and I am sure that some 'truth' may well be at the heart of these too but there is still some elements of speculation and making 1+1=PS5.

Custom work is important for AMD - as we know they have built custom SoC's for both MS and Sony for the PS4, PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro, XB1, XB1s and XB1X. I have included both Slims as they do have a different SoC - the Slim for example is built on 16nm which is why it has much better power consumption. Its ALL custom whilst it maybe based on Radeon or RX GPU's, Sony/MS specified what 'features' they have - as I said above, things like FP16, that Object tracking etc are not standard on Polaris and Sony wanted things that were in development for Vega.

MS wasn't mentioned with regards to Navi at all but they may not be as far along as Sony are - after all they only released the X last year and so they were probably still finalising that whilst Sony were looking at what next after the Pro. Its possible that Sony are collaborating with AMD as 'developers' as well as hardware manufacturers to help AMD develop a better product - not just for them but for gamers - advise them on what worked well with their previous hardware but also things that they found difficult. AMD are also working with MS - in particular the implementation of DXR - DirectX Raytracing into their GPU's. AMD have their own Raytracing built on Vulkan and nVidia has RTX. Through a collaboration with Microsoft, RTX will be fully supported in applications that utilize their new DirectX Raytracing (DXR) API, and Volta-architecture GPUs so MS are working with both AMD and nVidia.

Point is that Sony are certainly going to be using AMD but whether 'Navi' is exclusive to PS5 or that Sony are stipulating what they want from Navi, the custom version of it that will be 'unique' to PS5 as its almost certainly going to be in PC's too, we will have to wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 GPU is Navi and like the PS4 Pro's 'Polaris' based, be unique in that it will have certain features that will NOT be in the PC Navi GPU or MS's next box. We know the X doesn't support FP16 or have the Object Tracking for better Chequerboard rendering but then neither did the Polaris GPU for PC. MS's may well have DirectX and DXR built in to their GPU...

If ALL games dont run at 60fps then im gonna be mad. Im sick of herky jerky motion. Hope it has ps4pro like options (better fps or res) from the get go.

But will it still play my PS1 games?

Edit: whoops I’m getting confused between my PS3 and PS4! Hopefully it will play PS4 games, and it would be nice if the they follow Microsoft’s approach to backwards compatibility, Microsoft must be applauded for that.

@adf86 To be honest, I don't think that's very high up on Sony's plans at all. Even if the hardware was built on the same architecture, I don't know that Sony would offer it. It undermines their PSNow and lucrative 'remasters' - certainly if they are 'boosted' on the PS5.

Mark Cerny was adamant that the Pro was built to be fully compatible with the PS4 - right down to the fact that everything reverted to PS4 specs if Pro support wasn't given. They eventually did allow you to 'boost' the PS4 specs up a bit - still only using half the GPU of course with a disclaimer that some games may not work as expected. There are a few that didn't...

Its some of things he said to Digital Foundry on the design philosophy of the Pro, the restrictions they had because of the games - that even changing to a Puma from a Jaguar would cause issues with their existing library and what constituted a 'next gen' console, as well as other comments from Sony execs that lead me to believe that Backwards Compatibility won't be in their plans at all with the design and build of the PS5.

At most, it maybe something they introduce later on in the life-cycle of that generation - depending on how well things go - if they can implement it of course. It may not be what a lot of people want to hear but it's not necessarily a bad thing either. That gives Sony the freedom to build a console for the future without having to be mindful of the existing library. Its possible that 'some' games could run on a new system, some even improved because of dynamic resolution and unlocked frame rates but the most likely outcome is that a LOT of games won't run properly - even if the architecture is the same. MS gets around this by having a dedicated team and run 360 games in a built-in emulator. Its not a 'total' list of all the 360 games - it wasn't on the 360 with OG Xbox games either as some wouldn't work at all.

Even without this information, I think BC was unlikely. Its really not easy to implement with games that are optimised for a specific hardware configuration. PC games are built for such a wide variety of specs, and even then you may have to update drivers etc to get your 'old' games to run if you upgrade your hardware.

If it does happen, then bonus but don't be disappointed if the PS5 doesn't support Backwards Compatibility. I do expect the next box to have it as MS have stated that is their goal - if that means they have to build in an Xbox One (probably X) into their system, or at least a way to emulate it, then so be it. That's their issue to work out but I really don't expect it from Sony at all...

@Knuckles-Fajita Huh Navi will 99% sure be x86 and x64 architecture that will likely support direct x and that nvidia Vulcan thing.
If this is true this it will not be another ps3 power cell cpu.

I wouldn't actually mind if Sony brought out 2 versions of the PS5 at launch. A regular one and a supercharged one. Kind of like how cars you can get the regular model or the sport version. I know it won't happen but it could be cool in theory

One thing's for sure, MS absolutely hated having the weaker console this gen and doubt they'll be wanting to let that happen again...

All the consoles have custom made processors the Xbox and PS4 are also no standard processors.

Hopefully Digital Foundry will make a video on this explaining it better

@get2sammyb I think its the fact the article seems to indicate that Navi is 'exclusively' Sony and that its ONLY being made for Sony - like Sony has paid AMD to build Navi for them and only them in the same way they have 3rd Party Devs making games exclusively for their console rather than making their next GPU and then customising it to Sony's needs for the PS5.

FFS!
Will you all stop rushing more expense for us all by writting these hype posts!!
We DO NOT need an upgrade any time soon!
Have you seen the line up this E3?
Are you blind?
STOP IT

Youre right, thankyou for editing for me and having the care to leave the comment in.
Boy am I angry.
Please, guys, find something else to bait comments. Something that isnt going to irreperably damage itself trying to keep up with your hypemongerings.

@Knuckles-Fajita The guys and gals at Sony are smart. They've got more money and engineering experience than I could dream of. They probably know what they're doing.

@get2sammyb glad to see that I'm not the only one 😂
I remember looking at the xbone x tech spreadsheet when i made my purchase and thinking I'd love to know what this actually means 🤣
Exciting times tho. I love the ps4 so much!
Incidentally, I sold my xbox one. It made a great door stop tho but that's about it.

All this is is AMD making a custom built CPU/GPU architecture that's it it will have custom tweaks for Sony want for PS5. Like hopefully guaranteed 60fps at least and that set in stone for 1920x1080p at least no stupid odd resolutions. Hopefully they'll pass the checkerboard system and have near true 4k but I don't think it will have PS4 back compatibility. That's why I keep all my consoles still have my PS3 because it's got some gems I still haven't played yet.

Meh, AMD is a crap anyway, AMD is there for budget PC builds that's why I don't understand the excitement about this tbh

the way its going you will soon have a cruise missle button so the person who killed you 8 times in row or the person who took you out first lap on driving game you can launch at is location might have legal fallout but he or she wont do it again

AMD's Gpus are crap compared to Nvidia anyway, if Microsoft can get Nvidia to make their next console it will blow the PS5 out of the park. Not an Xbox owner (PS4 owner) but I do have an PC that originally had an AMD gpu that I upgraded to an Nvidia gpu and the performance in games is superior.

Nevi? Quick, someone call for Kat and Raven!

Custom amd cpu? Nice. It seems ps5 will be way more powerful and ambitious than ps4

@Nakatomi_Uk hahaha.i still playing my ps3 also.i just bought 5 ps3 games.im playing x com enemy unknown.wow great game.great graphics.the gameplay is really fun.word up son

@Acurisur AMD have always been price for performance where as NVidia have always been performance for price it's always been like that. But AMD have been doing great in the CPU market this article actually says why AMD have been poor in the GPU market. The Vega line of GPUs hasnt been the best and as it states "they shifted most of there team to concentrate on the PS5 stuff". Also AMD have been concentrating on the CPU market for some time with its Threadripper architecture and have been aiming for Intel for quite some time.

@BAMozzy Cheers!

You reckon there's any chance it'll be based on the 7nm Navi 20? Or is that something more likely reserved for the "PS5 Pro"? I've read some Xbox rumours that they're releasing multiple form factors, or at least two different SKUs, with one being more powerful. That could potentially be interesting. A €399 "budget" option, and a €599 high-end option.

@Real_Obsi E3 is no indication that this generation isn't in need of an upgrade. In fact you could use a LOT of E3 to be indicative of the need for Sony to bring out its PS5 sooner.

Of course we are all excited to play games like the Last of Us 2 or Ghost of Tsushima at what ever standard the PS4/Pro can offer because its better than not playing them. Some people will be happy to play at up to 1080p and up to 30fps on all the 'big' games on their 5yr old (spec wise) PS4 but the fact is a lot of games aren't running at a locked 1080/30 let alone 60fps.

A LOT of the games shown were in full 4k and the Pro won't be able to deliver that. That may not bother you if you only have a last gen HD TV but more and more people are upgrading their TV's. CB4k looks 'great' and comes close to delivering the 4k experience - maybe you have to look close to see where it falls apart and some textures look muddy because they were designed for HD and when upscaled, don't look as good or as sharp as they should. Its not just 'resolution' or textures but things like shadow quality, draw distance (objects, textures, shadows, etc) screen space reflections, lighting - in other words all the settings that make an image look more realistic, more planted in the world. That's without considering Frame Rates etc too.

More and more games are using dynamic resolution because the current gen cannot deliver the game at a consistent visual or performance quality. We are seeing a number of games that don't run at their 'capped' rate - whether that's 30 or 60fps.

As much as I am looking forward to games like LoU2 and GoT, even with a Pro, I know that the games will not be as 'good' as they could be because of hardware limitations. Whether that's visual (resolution and visual settings) and/or frame-rate 30fps not 60fps. That's not to say they will look 'poor' just not as good as they could be - and that's with games built specifically for the PS - the 3rd Party multi-plat games certainly won't look or run as well as they were designed to look or run.

It better be completely backwards compatible with ps4, I better be able to play my physical ps4 games on it and be able to transfer all of my digital ps4 content onto it like dlc ect. If not there's gonna be consequences and repercussions!

@Octane Personally I don't think that the PS5 will be using Navi 20 - that is not expected until 20/21. As for the rumours with Xbox, that stems from Phil Spencer saying that the team that delivered the Xbox X are 'deep into architecting the next Xbox Consoles - plural. Whether that means we will get two - a Streaming box and a 'full' console or that it meant that they are planning further ahead, we don't know. It could mean that they are looking at the next Console and how that may be iterated on in 3/4yrs time without issues - especially as it looks like we will be moving to Super-SIMD architecture as opposed to GCN. Its rather complicated to try and explain but the crux of it means that its much more efficient, saving bandwidth and its kind of like multi-threading for GPU's.

@malbhet Really?? The lack of Backwards compatibility has really affected the sales of PS4 hasn't it!! Its really helped the Xbox close the gap since it was introduced on that system....

If the PS5 offers the ability to play all the new games coming out for its life-cycle at a very high standard, it won't matter that it can't play AC4, BF4, Killzone, Knack etc.

If you have an existing library of PS4 games, you can always keep your PS4 to keep playing them. As I said, the lack of BC hasn't had a negative impact on the PS4 and it still sells more than Xbox with its BC....

@adf86 You can't keep releasing at $400 forever - Inflation etc. I do think the PS4/XB1 situation is different as these were released at a time when the 'analysts' were predicting that consoles were over AND we were in an economic crisis too. Its telling that they really scrimped on CPU to keep the cost down and focussed more on GPU so games at least looked 'next' gen - even if they didn't play much better or 'break' the mould so to speak.

We all know MS's console was more expensive - bundled with Kinect which was a lot more expensive and technically advanced than the PS camera so the actual console was (and still is) cheaper. I still think though they may aim for $450-500 - especially if they want to do 4k and 60fps. That is still a great price - when you consider a 4k Buray player costs $200 or a 4k GPU will cost more than that - let alone add in the price of a decent CPU, RAM (GDDR6) etc. AMD won't be making a 'lot' of profit on each but the fact they know its a guarantee for the duration, they can sell at cost + a small bit.
It would be a good incentive to existing PS owners but if they get everything right, it won't matter at all. Sony fanboys will buy regardless and those that are 'on the fence' or wondering whether to buy this or Xbox will be looking more at the library of new games - a new HZD, GoW, Bloodborne 2 etc, the multi-platform performance upgrade over PS4/Pro, VRR, Atmos, 4k HDR Bluray etc will add up more than whether or not the console has BC. Its not as if you can't keep your PS4 to play the games if they are that important to you. Its a 'nice' feature to have but its not going to be the 'end' for Sony if it doesn't have it. Do you think that all those 'Xbox 360' fans would have bought an XB1 over a PS4 if it had BC at launch or go for the console that offered the best for all the new games you were looking at buying?
Its NOT easy or 'cheap' to add Backwards Compatibility - that was one of the 'big' factors of the PS3 price as they built a PS2 into it just for BC. The latter and cheaper models cut that out. Some games may well work but for total BC, its expensive and not easy at all. It also undermines PSNow and eliminates the remaster market too which if you have games like Last of Us 2 or God of War, the difference isn't going to be much more than a change of resolution - GoW already offers 4k - albeit CB4k and you may get the visual quality and frame rate performance combined rather than having to pick 1 or the other - not enough to charge money for but they can IF you can't play it all on PS5 - as Last of Us Remastered proved - successfully based on the sales....
If MS are prepared to offer a Console at $500, then you can see a BIG difference in specs. The X - albeit a year later offers so much more for just $100 more. If you asked a PC gamer would they like a 10% CPU boost, 50% more RAM with 50% more bandwidth and a 42% better GPU, an upgrade to the cooling system so it all runs quieter as well as a 4k Bluray player, VRR support, Atmos audio for just $100, they would jump at that! If Sony target $400 and MS target $500, just think how much more MS could offer and how much of an impact that could have to games.

Both MS and Sony know that there are some Loyal customers but they also know that their customers will jump ship too if the bulk of their games don't look or run as well as the other choice. They can't rest on their successes of the past but have to keep pushing to stay at the top. If they get it wrong, it can take years before they have an opportunity to try and put things right.

@BAMozzy I have no problem with my stock PS4 the games run fine and im having fun could not care less. 😁

Gameplay, variation, games lots of games, 60 fps i really dont care, graphics are fine. The games are care about run great.

@BAMozzy Sorry but all the games Sony release blow MS out of the water. 😁 😃

You can keep talking about the loyal customers jump shop ofcourse not the care about the exclusive games not the numbers.

To be fair you are just a Xbox fanboy and somehow you cant understand that the games make me coming back. Not that snake in the grass company that told me singleplayer is dead, service games are the future, lootbox DLC in the their exclusive games and act like victim's with crossplay when they denied it first. If i wont get a Playstation i will get a Nintendo console.

@Flaming_Kaiser That is part of the point I was making - the games in their future. That being said, Sony's first Party line-up at the start of this Generation was poor - compared to Microsofts. I am NOT an MS fanboy at all - unlike you that constantly prove you are a Sony Fanboy with NO knowledge or the intelligence to look at things from a purely objective and unbias position.

Any criticism of Sony does not mean I am a MS fanboy at all. It comes from a position of being knowledgable and knowing where they are falling short. Yes I do criticise MS too for their lack of First Party games, lack of creativity within their studio's etc too because I am fully aware of where Sony are so much stronger than them - that comes from not blindly following 1 or the other and being an ignorant Fanboy that thinks their chosen console is the 'best' on everything despite being much weaker in several areas.

The point I was making is that there will be a LARGE number of gamers who will be faced with purchasing their new gen console who will not blindly buy Sony or MS but will look at everything objectively and buy the console that delivers the best overall for them. Whether its Sony because it not only offers the performance in ALL multi-platform games, the features they want/prefer and maybe the 'exclusives' too.

Not ALL the games Sony release blow MS away - of late their Big games are certainly impressive but Forza Motorsport was a much more complete racing game over GTSport - probably why it won the best racing game at the majority of Game Awards. Cuphead too won more awards than games like Horizon:Zero Dawn - so its an 'indie' but doesn't make its achievements any less impressive. I admit I would rather play Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, H:ZD and God of War over anything MS has offered this generation but I much prefer Forza Horizon, Gears 4, Sunset Overdrive etc to games like Until Dawn, Bloodborne, the Order, Knack etc.

I am currently buying all my multi-plat games on Xbox One X - not because I am fanboy but because it blows the PS4 Pro away on performance, visuals, features, noise, load times and visual quality. Its no different from buying the majority of my multi-plats on PS4/Pro before the X released because it offered the 'best' place to play games. As a gamer, not a fanboy, game performance is much more important than the 'name' on the plastic box its playing on.

There will always be loyal fanboys who will never buy MS/Sony, but then there are a LOT of gamers who will weigh up everything and go for the console that offers the best gaming experience - maybe picking up the other later on in the life-cycle to play those 1-2 exclusive games a year that they couldn't play.

If Sony's PS5 is more powerful for the money, I will buy that first and pick up a nextbox if/when it has a decent library of 1st party games that I want to play, if Xbox is better for the money, I will buy that first and pick up a PS5 when it has a decent library of games I want - not bias, not fanboy based decision - just one based purely on gaming.

You on the other hand will buy Sony regardless of whether it actually is the best place to play because you are a fanboy and not a gamer first and foremost! Its also proven because you are happy to accept games at 800-1080p, low/medium visual settings and 20-30fps or 40-60fps.

@BAMozzy
Boom! That's savagely satisfying. Well said. I actually have 3 friends who buy their AAA multiplats (and MS exclusives) on their One Xs because it runs better and buy exclusives on their PS4 Pros and Switches. For indies, they buy it on the Switch because of portabilty. Also thank you for the informative posts.

@BAMozzy You're exactly correct.

@Splatburst You described me exactly!

@BAMozzy I have read every one of your comments on this article, super super informative thank you so much!!

@BAMozzy I never mentioned xbox one nor was I thinking about xbox one! You are attempting to put words in my mouth when all I want is to be able to play my already bought ps4 games on the next ps console. I don't care about your fanboyism so don't try to pull me into your petty fanboy war because I don't care, I just want this feature for the next ps console.

@malbhet Nothing I said to you was fanboy related - its Fact. The Xbox has NOT seen any massive increase in sales since it added Backwards Compatibility and the gap between XB1 and PS4 continues to grow.

The fact that Sony's PS4 continues to sell incredibly well, faster than any generation before it also proves that Backwards Compatibility has not had any impact on sales at all. Its only become a 'buzz' feature since MS added it to try and claw back some sales, to give it some feature that Sony doesn't. That isn't 'fanboyism' its fact.

How that is 'Fanboy' I don't know - its statements of FACT. I used Xbox as an example of a console with BC and how that hasn't made a significant difference to its sales - the biggest reason that Manufacturers would change their consideration of adding features. It doesn't look like its in Sony's plans at all and if they do add it, bonus but its not as simple as just allowing you to put a disc in or downloading your old games and them running on the system as expected (or better). Certainly not if you want to have ALL games working properly. Boost mode on the PS4 doesn't work with ALL games - that slight boost in specs is enough to mess up the game as its optimised to use specific hardware at specific clock speeds. Its not like PC's either where you can download new drivers and the games are built to run on a wide combination of hardware. Its not just about having the same 'hardware' architecture either.

Sony would have to build a PS4 into the PS5 or at least a way to emulate the PS4 and/or Pro - all of which adds cost and it may impact their decision on what hardware they use, what performance they can offer for their next gen games - especially if they are building it to meet a retail 'budget'. The PS3 had a PS2 chipset in it to offer BC but that also added a lot to the expense. If they did the same for the PS4, you certainly wouldn't have had the specs you got for the price or it would have ended up being a LOT more expensive. That isn't Fanboy, that's fact. MS's Backwards Compatibility isn't 'total' either - less than half of the 360 games are playable - in fact its more like a quarter of the games are playable on an XB1.

As I said, this has NOTHING to do with fanboyism but FACT about BC, its implementation, its 'cost' and its impact on sales.

It was my thinking that PS4 and PS4 Pro where the start of the end to console generations! As stated by Sony due to PC like architecture. No BC will be a disappointment because of convenience. But not the end of the world because every one who plays PS4 games owns a PS4. I don't expect PS5 to ever be BC beyond PS4!

Who cares about how fast the graphics chip runs. Will the PS5 stop doing the beepy beep beep thing that ejects the cd?

@BAMozzy "Cuphead too won more awards than games like Horizon:Zero Dawn"

Lol, this is not true

Also, I already see digital foundry video, I can't find "xbox one x version of games visually blow away ps4 pro", what I find is "if you zoom 300% on multiplatform xbox one x games, the textures are a bit better than ps4 pro".

You pay $100 more for the ability to zoom-in on games and say, yup the textures are a bit better.

@wiiware I forgot the two awards that HZD won at the Audio awards that means they draw level with Cuphead...

As for the X, you really don't need to zoom in to games like Star Wars BF2, Ghost Recon: Wildlands, Shadow of War etc to see the massive difference in visual quality and textures too. Granted some games, like the Witcher 3, is very close - until you see them side by side - I can as I have BOTH an X and a Pro and the game/DLC on both systems too. Its then you see what difference Native over Chequerboard has as both are 'similar' in resolution but the X is Native and the Pro is CB. There is a reason the Pro is getting a nickname of 'soupstation' in gaming circles outside of 'Sony' specific sites like this and its because of the 'soupy' textures which stand out against the higher quality sharp edges of higher resolution. I know not all are particularly 'bad' as some do scale well and are no different to the ones the X uses - although the X does have better Anisotropic filtering which really helps. In some games, its more than just resolutions - better visual settings that can include draw distance, better LODs, better shadow quality, etc etc.

Its not surprising its overall better and you would expect it to be with a 42% better GPU which delivers a 50-220% better Resolution and the 65% more RAM (for gaming) that is 50% higher bandwidth helps with higher buffers, better load times, better streaming of assets etc. Granted the CPU isn't that much faster in clock speed - although it does offload some of the workload that a Pro CPU has to do to free up more resources from that area.

Games like Fifa 17 is not going to be 'better' on X because both consoles offer 4k/60 with the same visual settings but you can't argue with the facts. If you only watch Digital Foundry video's on a 'small' screen at 1080p (or less) with all the video compression that youtube has, the difference isn't always that obvious. However if you have both consoles as I do and see the games on a decent size 4k screen as I have, the difference is obvious. The most obvious game is Fortnite which is only 1080p on Pro yet 1728p - that's a 260% boost over the Pro that even on a 1080p screen is so clearly better.

As that chart shows, there is a big difference in resolution - much bigger than there is between the base versions of the Xbox One and PS4. PS fanboys made such a big deal out of 900p vs 1080p - that's the equivalent of 1800p vs 2160p but what we are seeing is that the gap is more like 720p vs 1080p. Its funny that resolution really mattered when PS4 was the 'leader' and now the Pro is significantly further behind the X, it doesn't matter anymore. I guess its the same as those Xbox fanboys at the start who said power didn't matter, it was exclusives but now they have dried up and Sony fanboys are now saying the same about the X... Funny how things have swapped around just a few years later...

Anyway, I could go on but I think the evidence is clear. For the past 4 years, DF have stated the definitive 'console' version was the PS4, then Pro but in the last year its been Xbox X and its likely to stay that way until Sony release a PS5.

I am NOT saying this as an Xbox fanboy either as I really want Sony to bring out its PS5 to blow the X away. I want to play the games at a native 4k with high quality textures and visual settings, I want to play at 60fps, if not more - which can be possible with HDMI2.1 - although I expect that many AAA games will still be 60fps but some could be higher and with Game VRR, you won't get 'sync' issues if your Display also supports VRR. I know how great games like HZD and God of War looked using Sony's superior Checkerboard rendering option and I will happily play Sony's exclusives at that (or even 1440p as ND games are), happily play at 30fps too if that's the 'best' option available at that time BUT until Sony can offer better than the X, the majority of my multi-platform games will be bought on Xbox as it offers the 'best' console experience at the moment - its no different to me buying most of my Multi-platform games on PS4 for the previous 4yrs. And I do have games, like Arkham Knight, Witcher 3, etc on both so I can compare 'base' with 'base', Pro vs X etc in a 'real' situation - as in directly on my consoles on my 4k TV at my normal viewing distance - not watched on my small screen phone/tablet/laptop at 1080p with a lot of compression. The closest you can get online without buying the consoles/games yourself is to download the 4k DF video's from their patreon site and play them on your 4k TV but that's not quite the same as playing the games yourself....