E3 2017: Sony Welcomes the Arrival of Xbox One X

I agree that if both manufacturers have 4k capable consoles on the market, this will slowly become seen as the standard and drive up adoption. As a gamer, choice is always a good thing as is healthy competition.

Ms have not done a brilliant job convincing me shelling out $500 for an xone4k. Apart from forza, the rest of their exclu looked like the type of cell shaded games u find on a tablet.( sea of thieves, crackdown._.Etc)

I don't want to get into an argument again over the XBX vs Pro and whether the Pro is in 'competition' with the XB1s or XBX so will try and avoid upsetting the Sony fanboys.

I totally agree that MS's XBX is a 'good' thing for the industry and for gamers invested in the Pro. I can't see any AAA game creator though not making 4k capable games - they have been doing so for years now - long before these consoles came along. Its obvious that first party developers will take advantage of the new hardware - we have seen that with the Pro and it certainly looks like Sony will continue along this path

What has been disappointing though as a 'Pro' owner so far, is the lack of 'quality', options and even 'support' we have seen in the multi-platform Pro games. Apart from a few - like Rise of the Tomb Raider for example, Pro support has been quite 'hit and miss' in some games. At best it has seemed almost a 'token' effort, a slight boost in resolution. In some cases, developers have only tweaked a few 'visual' settings (not even offered any resolution increase) that if 'Digital Foundry' hadn't pointed them out, you would struggle to see any difference.

Hopefully, with the XBX on the market, developers will take UHD (not going to say 4k because I am not getting into an argument over that) resolutions, even frame rate increase options more seriously with the Pro too, I can understand why some games may not get 60fps modes - such as parity in online MP - but I still think developers could do more - even if its just a HQ 1080p mode or UHD mode.

Even supersampling for 1080p TV users would be better as they often get little/no additional benefits what-so-ever! The games output to 1080p with the same visual settings and frame rates as the base PS4 and any benefits are down to the fact the base PS4 suffering performance drops...

@JoeBlogs Trying NOT to get into that argument too many fanboys will get upset....

From a technology stand point, it's almost like the Xbox and PS4 consoles are taking turns at sucking. Sony had it's ''fun in the sun'' now it's Microsoft's turn. Just my personal opinion. Even if 50% of gamers don't care about playing UHD BLURAY movies, all gamers should care about a great /superior audio experience or at least I should hope so, sound is 50% of the experience after all and visuals are the other 50%.

If you can't hear or see anything their is no gameplay, no story ect... at the very least Sony needs to match Xbox with object based audio support for games via Dolby Atmos or DTS X. I'm not a big fan of gaming headphones, I prefer a home cinema setup but this is something that will enhance the gaming experience for everyone regardless of if they are using headphones are a AVR system.

@kyleforrester87 It's not about power it's about keeping up with current technologies such as Dolby Atmos and UHD Bluray. those two things have nothing to do with running at 60FPS or textures. If you are not a audiophile or movie enthusiast you wouldn't understand but I can appreciate that most gamers don't think about the audio, they are mostly focused on graphics but I like to appreciate the entire gaming experience as a whole.

The other side to this of course, is that now Sony have the upper hand to a degree. I know that many here will say its 'too' soon for Sony to bring out a PS5 2yrs after the Pro BUT, and lets make this point clear, the Pro is part of the PS4 'family' and no different from the slim or OG PS4 generationally speaking. I know it has a bit more under the hood, but its 'still' a PS4 which is 4yrs old this November. IF Sony hadn't brought out the 'Pro' for the 'transition' between 1080-4k screens, I really couldn't see the PS4 lasting 6-7yrs as the 'top' Playstation - I couldn't see it lasting more than 5yrs in 2013 when it launched and believe me that's not 'fanboyism', I thought the Xbox One would struggle to last 4yrs+ and still think MS should have made the XBX a 'new' generation or at least not locked it to this generation. Anyway that's a separate discussion.

Point is that Sony now 'could' (not saying they will - although I still think they should) release a PS5 in Q42018 with Full 4k capability and I include the 4k HDR bluray, HDR, Dolby Atmos/DTS-X, Game VRR that blows the XBX out of the water 'spec wise'. As we have seen in the past, a 'new' generation does NOT signal the 'instant' death of the old generation either so the PS4 would still have that 2-3yr 'crossover' phase but the PS5 wouldn't be 'held back' by parity clauses so 'could' have MP games running at 4k 60fps whilst the PS4/Pro runs at 30fps. You can 'argue' that the visuals may not be 'too' much of a 'generational' leap between the Pro and PS5 all you want but it would be a significant leap in every way. I don't know if MS would 'respond in 2019 - seems ridiculous considering the XBX is already offering 4k, 4k HDR Bluray, Atmos and Game VRR. It can't do 'much' in terms of 'generational' leaps

I'll be playing these upcoming games on my normal base PS4, my normal 1080p TV and through my normal £25 set of headphones. I bet I enjoy them just as much as somebody with all the 4k high tech gizmos.

@ApostateMage lol even with those headphones you could still experience the best audio technology currently available for entertainment as Atmos works with any pair of headphones, if Sony would implement it that is.

@kyleforrester87 Exactly, you don't know what you're missing until you've had it.

@kyleforrester87 Its the same argument that the PS4 sucks because of the Pro...

I might sound a bit 'enthusiastic' over what the XBX can offer over the PS4 and Pro in terms of visuals, audio, 4k HDR player etc but the PS4 certainly does not 'suck'. It has by far the best and most diverse library of exclusives - many of which are 'GotY' contenders/winners (not just my opinion but the opinion shared by industry leaders too) and even many of the multi-platform games look, run and sound fantastic. Just because the XBX may enhance these a bit more, certainly doesn't make the PS4 'suck' and I certainly won't be getting rid of my 2 PS4's (OG and Pro) anytime soon!!

@BAMozzy As always audio takes a back seat to visuals, once again unfortunately, Sony is doing a good job at supporting higher resolution gaming & HDR but is seriously outdated in the audio department for games.

The PS4 Pro isn't true 4K!! Hell it don't even have a 4K player lol Xbox One X has a 4K player, BUT.... I'm gonna upgrade my PS4 normal to the PS4 Pro as I've got loads of games from the ps store and lots of disk games for PS4 so won't have to re-buy all the games again! I don't have a 4K Tv I've got a top end 1080p smart Tv and I'm more than happy with that! I also think the XB1X is also a lot of money too.

"“I think it's good for the industry,”"

Translation -

Thanks for the $500 price, Pro looks so much better now at $399, and we'll drop it to $349 when XXX launches just to crush it more.

Since there's 2 4k machine now, I hope more 3rd party developers optimize their game on the new console.

I'm looking at you prey, the prey demo is horrible with pathetic framerate making me not interested in the game.

well he is right after all as much as fanboys want to believe there is a war and they are competing with each other, the fact is their relationship is much more symbiotic as with each step one takes the other takes the next and it helps move the industry forward

Sony and Microsoft are two sides of the same coin and while i have no interest in 4K as i can't even afford a 4K TV it does give not only consumers but developers a look at what the next console generation may bring

although i do think the $499/£449 price point is a bit off putting especially as the PS4 Pro while not a native 4K system CAN still do 4K for $100/£100 cheaper

Dudes making sense. I like where Sony + Microsoft are going... 4K as standard within 2 years. Btw, I use to be a fan of bluray discs but atm netflix and YouTube stream in 4K on many modern 4k smart TVs and it has stopped me from buying box sets and movies. Watching korean pop in 4k is awesome! You can see every spot and single hair! 4k gaming simply looks stunning... but I agree with BAMozzy wish ps4 pro was supported better. And why did Sony hide boost mode option under system settings - took me ages to find it!!! Makes more sense to me if it was under video settings ie. More graphical power or place it in it's own Pro settings menu near the top.... grrr.

@BAMozzy "Point is that Sony now 'could' (not saying they will - although I still think they should) release a PS5 in Q42018"

If they release a PS5 in Q4 2018 that means they'll have to announce it in Q1 2018. Did you see the press conference Monday night?

2018 PS4 games -
God of War
Spiderman
The Last of Us 2 (by it's absence I'm guessing not in 2017)
Days Gone is 2017 still but...

And are you the one who told me about the RDR2 delay into 2018?

How is Sony supposed to keep people excited for all of those great looking games on PS4, telling people how great they look, if in Feb they start talking about super-dooper-looper 4k graphics on the PS5? They can't all be dual releases - even if they can all be ports later on. And then PS4 is still supposed to be getting Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF7R at some point. FF7R will be moved to PS5 almost certainly but KH3 should be on PS4 in 2018 hopefully.

Plus it's still selling well at $299 and $399, $249 and $349 this holiday, $199 and $299 holiday 2018 w/ all of those games.

And then there's the matter of PSVR. Judging by it's 7 minutes of coverage Monday night Sony hasn't abandoned it yet. And it's still $399 plus the cost of camera and Move controllers. Lets be unrealistically optimistic and say Sony continues to support it into 2018 and drop the price to $349 this holiday, $299 next holiday, in line w/ the PS4 Pro. Even if PSVR is compatible with PS5 - hopefully we don't NEED a new headset like we always need a new camera each gen - will people holiday 2018 have money for both a $299 headset and a $399 PS5?

So in 2018 PS4 has a number of great exclusive games, RDR2, potentially really nice price points of $199 and $299, a $299 PSVR headset to sell, and you want to announce a new PS5 early in the year and release it during the holidays? Why shoot themselves - meaning the PS4 - in the foot?

It does make E3 2018 a bit tricky. Do they announce a slew of new PS4 games for 2019, do they announce the PS5 games and kill the PS4 happiness, do they only announce PS4 games due out holiday 2018 and some minor ones for early 2019 leaving people to assume PS5 is coming in 2019? I'm going with that last one.

And MS is only putting out Scorpio XXX this holiday, so they won't have Xbox Eleven (I don't know what else to call it "Xbox 1 XI" is Xbox One X One which is kinda catchy) until 2019 either. And Switch just came out, Switch 2 wont' be out for years, even "New Switch" wont' be out until 2019 if then. "SwtichPocket" for kids - think cheap 2DS - may be out next year alongside Pokemon but that doesn't matter.

I just dont' see any reason for a PS5 in 2018, not lack of PS4 games, not cost, not lingering sales like Wii U, not competition. PS5 would only be hurting PS4 and PSVR. 2019 is better b/c PS4 will be out of games and the price too low - $149 PS4 Super Slim is too cheap. Pro becomes the $199 cheaper option, PS5 at $399.

Sorry so long, at least I didn't bring up 4k

@kyleforrester87 I know but its the same argument essentially. The Pro, being more powerful, must make the PS4 suck if the XBX makes the Pro suck because it has the more powerful hardware...

@Nesstark88 the Audio isn't taking a backseat at all. Ok so its not offering object based audio like Atmos or DTS-X but in 2013, when this generation launched how many owned Atmos? How many games currently support Atmos? How many supported Atmos in 2016 when the Pro launched?

I would be 'disappointed' if the PS5 didn't have Atmos support or a 4k HDR Bluray drive but as the PS4 is 'just' a more powerful PS4 without offering a 'significant' upgrade in technology - got to have some 'selling' point and a big enough 'leap' to warrant buying a next gen system, it didn't make sense in 2016.

I really don't want to get into the '4k' debate with 'native' resolutions, 4k textures and assets etc etc again, but suffice to say, Sony have the 'opportunity' to create their 'next' gen hardware, truly 'next' gen in terms of gaming, media and audio and give us a 'significant' reason to upgrade.

Competition is always great. The only Xbox I'd consider buying is the S though. For the price, it's a fantastic 4k bluray player. The X hardware is very cool/exciting, but again.... I don't see any software that makes it worth the price.

@adf86 if that's true it seems like a bit of a silly move by MS, like they are not too sure about the XBX

@Neolit I'll admit, the "body snatching" aspect of SMO is a little creepy. Just waiting for confirmation that Mario was behind the fungal zombie apocalypse in TLOU!

@BAMozzy Im kinda good i guess i still have fun om my stock PS4 plus i dont own a 4K TV. I love it when you pull the fanboycard here so no one wants to go against you. But tell me this if dont see anything nice on the new Xbox X that i want to play but i have a insane amount of games i want on the PS4 who should i choose hmmmm?

@Neolit I hate to admit it but mario takes all but i like Samus more.
Still i wont buy a Switch yet backlog on PS4 to big and with the E3 show
which made me more certain that i have enough to play on the PS4 in the
future i just cant say i gonna buy a Switch very soon.

I would suggest though that just having a 4k HDR TV makes a noticeable difference to gaming even with just the standard consoles as they support HDR.

Looking around the internet it does look like it has the 'X' Factor Yeah it's good for SONY because it's not going to make a difference in sales to the PS4 and PS4 Pro So nothing to see here so move along

@BAMozzy lol true, my atmos setup is catching dust that's all lol especially with Atmos and DTS X skipping many Blurays in favor of their UHD Bluray counterparts and just slapping a regular and FREE DTS-HD 7.1 audio track on the regular Bluray disc. Games are the ultimate and perfect platform for this technology though because of how dynamic game audio is. Microsoft has seen the potential of these audio technologies and have capitalized on them, Sony seem like they could care less at the moment.

@rjejr I can tell you this, ALL those games you mentioned, I would LOVE to play in full 4k with 4k assets, Atmos audio etc. I would love to play a lot of them at 60fps as I am certain most will be 30fps at most and none will be in 4k with 4k enhanced textures and lighting, shadows, reflections etc.

I don't know anyone with a 4k HDR Screen that given the choice, wouldn't want that. As stated, I think they 'should' not said they 'will' but how soon after the Last of Us releasing did we get the PS4? 4-5months! They could announce it at E3 and still promise to support the PS4 with their first party line-up. The Last of Us 2 could still come to PS4/Pro but they could do a 'Last Guardian' and release that as a PS5 game.

Realistically speaking, the PS4 Pro is at best a 1440p console. I know we see some '4k' games but virtually all the 'visually' enhanced games run at around the 1440p 'render'. 1440p is 3.69m pixels, 1800p checkerboard (2x900) is 2.88m pixels and 4k checkerboard (2x1080p) is 4.15m pixels so depending on how complex and resource heavy other aspects are, the Pro is 'generally' rendering the equivalent of 1440p. Something we saw with Titanfall and Uncharted 4. Calling it 'Dynamic' 4k is like calling the Xbox One 'Dynamic 1080p' - except the XB1 actually hits 1080p with full HD textures etc.

The equivalent would be like having a Standard def 540p device, that keeps all the 540p assets but outputs at 720p and calling that 'dynamic' 1080p. If you ONLY ever had 540p, that 720p looks 'great' but if you have had full 1080p HD...

That's the equivalent in resolutions numerically speaking, but of course it's not quite that much of a difference in reality because there is diminishing returns with higher pixel density on the same sized screens and distance from it.

Its hardly shooting themselves in the foot either. Sony brought out one of the 'last' slim PS3's just a year before the PS4 and only recently stopped manufacturing the old gen console. The two can co-exist. The Pro could still 'sit' next to PS5 in peoples living space with the PS5 being the full 4k next gen console and Pro being the last gen enhanced PS4 for 4k TV's console it is - like keeping your PS3 to play last gen games except the PS4 Pro at least offers a bit of enhancement for 4k rather than 1080p and under. The PS3 to PS4 was a jump from upto 720 to 1080p (like going from 1440 to 2160p and for those who didn't buy a Pro the jump is even more significant.

Its coming, whether it comes in 2018 as I hope or later - its coming. Sony will want to offer its customers the full 4k, Atmos, 4k HDR bluray, Game VRR option too...

PS4 Pro is still a PS4, Xbox One X is still an Xbox One both are held back (to different degrees but still held back) by the existing base models. They're in competition, just like the 'peasant' models are in competition. Spencer's statement was stupid (but everybody loves him for whatever reason so will never call him out) but MS has made a lot of stupid statements lately. I think this is the first time ever Ryan said something I agree with and that is that those who want 4K gaming could benefit from this. We'll still have to wait and see though.

@Flaming_Kaiser As I would state to everyone, buy the console that best suits you and your needs. If that happens to be PS4/Pro then fantastic - they have a console for you with the games you want to play!!

As stated, I have NO intention of getting rid of my PS4 Pro and really looking forward to a lot of games on it too. I really enjoy gaming on it but I do have a 4k HDR Screen and given the choice, I want my games to match that where possible. I am certainly not going to miss out on ANY of the PS4 exclusives I want!!

As I also said, I really hope the XBX helps to ensure the Pro is better supported too - not just for my benefit but for everyone who opts to buy a Pro - including all those who still own 1080p screens and will do for the foreseeable future.

I bet (almost) everyone here though (there are a few exceptions I know), with 4k HDR screens, would love to be able to play their PS4 exclusives and multi-plat games at 'true' 4k, preferably 60fps and with the best visual settings and audio quality possible if they had the chance.

I never once said the PS4 or Pro 'sucks' or isn't great. never once said the range of games on offer is 'poor' or that I would never play them because they 'don't' deliver the full 4k etc. Both the PS4 and Pro are fantastic consoles - something I have said over and over again.

Some people beat the competition by stepping up their game. Microsoft beats the competition by pretending it doesn't exist. Interesting strategy.

Sony must have liked the Microsoft conference.

Or been laughing themselves silly.

MS will sell XboneX for $499 for the hardcore Xboxers, tech junkie and a few others that will buy it for Christmas. Then it'll probably get a price drop early 2018 like the X1 did after its "temporary" (which was BS in the end and an obvious sales ploy imo to create fear of loss and likely planned all along) holiday price cut.

It's a good thing, yeah, and now that there are two machines in the playroom, devellopers will spend time and money in boosted versions of their games. The Witcher 3, for exemple, is FINALLY gonna get a PRO Patch. Because the One X get it too. Competition is always a good thing.

That was trolling on executive level And Jim Ryan handled it pretty good

@BAMozzy I agree with a lot of things you said except the ps5 in 2018. Why would Sony from a buisness point release a ps5 with the PS4 is still selling so good?

@Moneyjaypr7 Well I have already stated why. In art to offer its fanbase a full 4k console, with Atmos audio, game VRR and a 4k HDR Bluray. Its about keeping up with the technology rather than sitting back on their laurels.

It doesn't mean that the PS4 is 'dead', won't continue to sell and won't immediately stop being supported just because the next gen is out - there is always a 2-3yr crossover as some will want to wait for the library to grow before upgrading. Still didn't stop games like CoD, Fifa etc from releasing the same game on both generations, with the same story and content.

You could say why do Apple or Samsung make new phones every year when the old ones are still selling well? Why do AMD and nVidia bring out new GPU's every year when the old ones still work and sell, still play the same games etc. Why do Sony bring out new TV's, new Soundbars, bluray players etc every year when last years work?

It doesn't make sense to bring out new consoles every year or two but the PS4 would be 5yrs old by then and built for a HD generation. The Pro is a essentially still a PS4 with a bit more powerful GPU to boost the res a bit and some 4k media apps so they could, not saying they will, build a PS5 for the 4k gen and to stay at the forefront. If Sony can build it cheap enough to sell, I am sure it will happen

@BAMozzy I think PS5 is coming, w/ all those things you listed, for all the reasons you listed, I just think 2018 is too early based on everything else. I'm not even sure 4k tvs are so ubiquitous that the market even demands 4k gaming. Yes, people who have a 4k TV want it, but that's the 4k TV install base right now? Maybe 2018 coudl be the tipping point, but that's just 1 factor.

PS4 Pro is only selling 20% now. Maybe some of that is stock issues, but some must be price, and some is people w/o 4k TVs dont' see enough of a reason, and maybe there just aren't enough people w/ 4k Tvs yet.

Also, while i do think PS4 Pro and PS5 can, and should, exist side by side, PS3 lasted years after PS4, I'm not sure about $199 PS4 Slim, $299 PS4 Pro and $399 PS5, which is about what they would be holiday 2018. I don't think they can drop the Slim, they need the low price entry point, but they probably dont' want to drop the Pro either, but who would buy a $299 Pro when they can buy a $399 PS5? 3 systems on the market seems like too much.

Guess that's part of the problem, nobody has ever had a mid-range refresh like this gen. Which system gets the boot when the new 1 launches, or do you try to sell 3? Those boxes are pretty big, retailers only have so much shelf space. And they need space for PSVR as well. Guess we'll see, PS5 is a given at any rate.

For my needs its always been best bang for my buck! I even went in with a open mind at E3 2013. Not knowing what direction I would take. PlayStation won me over. Yes it was more power but the most outstanding factor was "at less cost"!!!

I just your avg. guy still with a 1080P TV I do own a Pro mostly to boost my VR experience. Something Microsoft seems to have forgotten about, that's a shame for Xbox owners! Now Microsoft is getting away from Single player experiences saying they are not profitable Huge mistake. aPS4 S still wins over Xbox One S and PS4 Pro Still wins over X-Box-X.

I have zero hate or salt for Xbox or its owners. We all make our choices with our own logic. I make mine anyone else is free to make their own regardless of what I do. Long ago Chevy vs Ford was a big thing LOL

@BAMozzy I don't think we'll see ps5 in 2018 but that of course is my opinion. But that's what is great about these discussions is everyone has here own

@Moneyjaypr7 @rjejr Don't get me wrong, I can totally see the complications of bringing out a PS5 that soon. Maybe I am projecting a bit of my own hopes into it too but its definitely coming. If not 2018, then 2019 at the latest in my opinion.

Its not so much about what they 'have' and their impressive sales to date, its more about bringing those aspects to its user base and staying at the forefront.

I know the XBX is being marketed as a 'iterative' console but its also got the 4k HDR gaming with Atmos and Game VRR, 4k HDR media - also with Atmos. It would be 'difficult' for MS to respond to Sony if they brought out a new gen console in 2018 with these two. They 'could' bring out a new console in 2019 but what can they offer they don't offer now - better 4k? 2020 isn't unrealistic to bring out a more powerful system or 'upgrade' if they are moving away from generations - like buying a new GPU on your PC every 3-4yrs to keep playing the games at their best but 2020 seems the earliest for MS. If Sony do wait until 2019, they could hand MS the initiative. By that I mean that MS has 2yrs of being the most powerful system, then Sony for a year before MS comes out with its new box. It could be that MS only get 1yr and Sony 2yrs - assuming you go on a 3yr cycle with New gen, Iterative, new gen, iterative... which Sony would have done on its 4th gen if the release in 2019.

Sony built the Pro to stop console owners going to PC for higher quality gaming as 4k was still in its 'infancy' as far as screens go, although I have owned a 4k TV since 2014. Its looking like Sony are quite far off the pace with its 4k console.

I know Assassins Creed uses some Checkerboarding technique on the XBX but so did Watchdogs 2 on the 4k PC version and Ubisoft pioneered it with Rainbow Six Seige - although Killzone SF I think was the first to use it but Ubisoft have embraced and pioneered it. AC:O may well be very close to the PC 4k version on XBX - maybe a bit more scaling than a top-end PC in intensive situations but the point is, if we look at Watchdogs 2 as some sort of guide and project that forward, we may have some idea of how AC will look and run compared to XBX/PC.

@JohnKarnes VR was not part of MS's conference as they said they were waiting until 2018 to discuss that. They were building VR up on PC first and 'hope' to bring a wireless solution to XBX.

@BAMozzy I agree with what u said about MS maybe should of just made a next gen console. I think​ with the $500 price tag they maybe should of waited another year and just released a whole new machine. I just don't see most people paying that price when u can pay less and get the best exclusives.

@ellsworth004 Its true that the best, most diverse exclusive line-up is with Sony and if exclusives is all you buy, then Sony is by far the better option.

MS talked about moving away from generational consoles BUT have positioned the XBX purely as an iterative console. We already know the XB1 'struggles' to deliver games - particularly 3rd Party at full HD and we see a lot of 900p or less games. Some of these can't match the same level of visual refinement we see on Sony's system. I have no doubt that for the foreseeable future, we will see parity - ie the games working 'well enough' on both hardware specs. What happens though in 3yrs time (for example) if a big AAA 3rd Party game can't run 'adequately' at 720/30 on XB1? Will that be released with a 'disclaimer' stating Xbox X required for 'best' experience? Will we see something similar to Nintendo 64 and the Expansion Pack games (like Donkey Kong, Majoras Mask or even Perfect Dark which had 'some' content unavailable)?

In a 'generational' format, a new console would be released and games that may not run adequately on the old hardware, only release for the new. games that can run on both get dual releases although some first part games are kept for the new hardware as incentives. In non-generational format, What we were expecting from MS, is that initially all games run on both but as games evolve, it becomes increasingly difficult for the older, less capable machine to deliver a worthwhile experience. In a PC space, we see minimum and recommended specs so I expected something similar. At the moment, the minimum is XB1 but as time goes on, will we see XBX recommended (to deliver the full content or worthwhile, playable experience) or minimum required (as the game won't 'run' anywhere near the standards of playable - if at all). I don't see this becoming an issue with 1st party for a longer time because, so far, these have generally been at 1080p which does have more headroom and MS will build them to run at native 4k on XBX. We know that will scale down well to 1080p (or less) on XB1.

The advantages of non-generational consoles is that ALL games - both old and new will work on all systems. You won't get games being kept for the new to force players to upgrade and those that do won't have to build up a new collection. However at some point, those on older hardware, have to upgrade to keep playing all the latest games. The old hardware will still work for a lot of those releases - indie/arcade, less complex new releases etc.

Its like owning a Radeon 7870 GPU in your PC, that may run a game like Fifa18 but if you want to play SW:BF2 at 1080/60 with some of the visual bells and whistles turned on, you are going to have to upgrade to a GTX980 or 1080 if you want 1440-2160p (depending on monitor)

I do think the price of the XBX is steep - especially if its seen to be like the PS4 Pro. I can see a lot of people thinking that the 'Pro' does the same thing, is cheaper and has the better exclusives. What Microsoft seem to be hoping is that people will look at the majority of games they buy, which in most peoples case is 3rd Party, and want the 'best' experience (visually at least) and buy the XBX. Its not like it doesn't have 'any' exclusives and only Forza is likely to compete with GT in terms of quality etc.

In my case for example, I tend to buy around 12-15 AAA games a year and of those 1-3 maybe exclusives. This means that at least 3 multi-plat games are bought for every 1 exclusive but can be as many as 5-7 for every 1. In my case I own a Pro anyway so it doesn't matter BUT I would have to compromise a bit on 12-14 games a year, just to play the 1-2 that Sony have that I want.

MS seem to be hoping they can 'entice' all those on last gen hardware, looking to play CoD, Fifa, SW:BF2 etc (all the biggest selling games) at the best and highest visual setting on XBX as well as access all those games from the OG Xbox onwards. In essence, similar to the start of this gen when Sony had the best visuals in the HD space.

The difference though is 'bigger' than that era BUT there is a caveat in that there is diminishing returns as you increase the resolution. Also those that upgrade from a XB1 or PS4 will see a positive 'difference' in the Pro's visuals. Whether people find that enough, because of the better exclusives who knows - each will have their own opinion. The extra $100 though does buy a higher visual quality - not just resolution but in assets and possibly visual settings like lighting, shadows etc too. It 'can' also buy you a better 'audio' with Atmos support (if games and multi-media have it). That extra $100 also buys a 4k HDR Bluray player and most (if not all) 4k HDR films support Atmos audio. It also supports Game VRR which may not be 'relevant' right now as no TV supports it... yet. But its coming... Like I said, its not as if the majority of gamers buy more exclusives than Multi-plat releases. They may opt to keep their PS4 for exclusives and buy the XBX for multi-plat and the 'few' exclusives that MS has - not just 'new' but all the ones they missed as well as access to all the BC games they may not have played for years, the 4k bluray, etc...

I am NOT criticising anyone who opts to buy the Pro over the XBX. Everyone's needs are different. Personally I hope that Sony do respond by bringing out their PS5 so I can play their exclusives at true 4k with 4k assets, Dolby Atmos sound and with Game VRR support (my next TV will certainly have this and eARC too for Atmos) and also offer the full 4k Multi-media suite (Bluray, Atmos/DTS-X etc etc)

@BAMozzy Microsoft has a VR headset for PC? But do not have one on Xbox One X? I had to look This up and found https://gamerant.com/microsoft-vr-focus-pc-not-xbox-one/
I call this bull! Phil Spencer said: Perhaps once the Xbox One X drops later this year and potentially establishes itself firmly in the marketplace, it can be Microsoft’s flagship VR console sometime down the line.
Is Microsoft leaving Xbox One owners behind for Xbox One X?
Wow this rabbit hole is deeper than I care to go on the subject!
I have PSVR I love it and was expecting Microsoft to have one also for Xbox One and Xbox-X users. They have nothing and are just waiting on it.

Microsoft's biggest problem has always been software support. Look at how last gen ended. The only decent Xbox exclusives were Halo, Gears and Forza. This generation is the same. Xbox has no games. It's a fact.

@BAMozzy I barely know what ATMOS is, I don't think Sony saying in 2018 - here's our new console, it has ATMOS - is going to be a big selling point to a large part of their fan base.

I'm sure there are a lot of 4k TV owners who are anxious for PS5, just not sure there are enough of you. Certainly not in Japan, PS4 is being overtaken by Switch as it is, bringing out another home console wont' help there. X1X will sell 3 consoles there.

If I were a betting man I'd say were' more likely to see Vita 2 (not called that, maybe PS4go to compete w/ Switch) in 2018 than PS5. And I know this website is pretty much 100% against another Sony handheld, but its' my windmill, like PS5 in 2018 is yours.

And by waiting another year, 2019 instead of 2018, more power at a cheaper price, 1 year might make enough of a difference in tech. There wont' be a $600 PS5, unless it's bundled w/ PSVR. Native 4k, 2TB, I suppose 16GB DDR5. And ATMOS. And it streams to PS4go.

Enjoy your Pro and XXX, why such a rush to spend yet another $500?

Did you watch the Interview with Phil, I did and what Phil said has been blown out of context by the media as usual. The main part about the interview was about co existing with PS4, games and who the One X is for.

This web site doesn't like people praising Xbox or criticizing Sony, it will get you a ban.
But I am a gamer and I game across all platforms, I am not a lemming or Fan Boi, I just call it as I see it.

@rjejr Atmos is much better than standard surround sound and can give 'height' to so the 'helicopter' overhead sounds overhead for example. Its the highest quality Audio quality that 4k HDR Blurays and some games have - Star Wars Battlefront for example has it but not that PS4 owners would ever hear. Its the 4k upgrade to Audio if Stereo was SD and 5.1 was HD.

Its the future for Home Audio, just like 4k HDR is the future for TV's - in fact some TV's have Atmos Sound bars (like LGs W7)

I know $500 isn't 'cheap' but its still reasonable considering the tech. That extra $100 over the Pro is buying a 4k HDR Bluray with Atmos as well as a 43% boost over the PS4, 50% more RAM (with 80% more available for gaming) and 50% higher bandwidth, and Game VRR (like n-Synch or FreeSynch on PC's). If you were a 'PC' owner $100 (or £100) for that level of improvement would be a 'bargain'.

I would expect price of hardware to drop by 2018. After all the cost of a TitanX was $1k but a $400 GTX1070 beat it a year later. Zen CPU will be established and no doubt the price of Memory could drop too. No doubt 4k HDR Blurays will be cheaper - especially to Sony. Sony could come out with an 8tflop PS5 for around the $450-500 mark with a better CPU, at least as much RAM and deliver the full 4k games and audio to its fans...

As for Vita - who knows. It wouldn't be difficult to beat the Switch in specs, have a bigger and higher res screen (Same as an iPod Mini perhaps) and a decent battery - could be bigger because of the increased screen size - but all that extra power, driving a bigger and higher quality screen would still drain the battery.

Its whether they see a market for it. It could run PS4 quality games too but that also comes at a price...

@BAMozzy "Its the future for Home Audio"

I guess I just don't see the market for ATMOS. 4k TVs are everywhere in every ad in my Sunday paper. And while sound systems are in there as well, I don't know anybody talking about ATMOS. I don't think I know a single person w/ 7 speakers even. I'm not sure most people know the difference between Dolby and DTS. Between PCM and linear. HDMI vs optical.

So while it may become the defacto standard, I don't see it being a selling point. Millennials are all getting used to playing games on their touchscreens in stereo, ATMOS is of no concern to them.

I can imagine in VR that sound will become a big deal, but that will all be in headsets, but people will want the best sound. Mono VR would suck.

Xbox X may be worth the money hardware wise, but it still needs to bring the games. Games that look like they require 4k. Not indies. Not pixels. Not cell shaded. PS4 has the games, making PS5, at any price, unnecessary for the time being.