I think, after reading in detail the reams of information that leaked regarding PlayStation 4K yesterday, that Sony is doing right by existing PS4 owners – but it's clear that not everyone agrees. Those of you that know me in person will know that I have a mild obsession with NeoGAF, spending incalculable hours trawling through the message board on a daily basis. But while I'm used to the forum's outrageous overreactions, I was quite shocked perusing the response to the strongly rumoured Neo – especially now we know more about it.
If you don't visit the website, then allow me to summarise the response: it's aggressively negative. To say that some people are upset would be a gross understatement – there's some real venom surrounding the hardware half-step. And that's been amplified by the response of influential names in the PlayStation community; the latest episode of PS I Love You, for example, sees ex-IGN editor Colin Moriarty practically ranting about the unannounced appliance. While his perspective is undone somewhat by his admission that he'll buy the box anyway, this isn't good.
And Sony's silence is making things worse.
It's mind-boggling to me that, with its fanbase up in arms and practically every detail about its upgraded platform laid bare, the manufacturer is still using the stock "we don't comment on rumours and speculation" response. Don't get me wrong, I understand why it's not saying anything: confirming that you're working on a new, superior system that's not set to launch until the fall is one sure way of ensuring that current sales stop dead. But this is the path that it's taken – and given the ease with which media outlets have obtained internal information, it's not exactly been locking the details down.
So it needs to make a statement – and, in my opinion, it needs to make it fast. Here's the problem: people are already coming to conclusions about the PS4K before Sony's even had a chance to state its case. That's a problem, and the danger is that if the platform holder waits too long, most people will have already made up their mind about the product before it's even officially revealed. If memory serves, the last time that the market was this upset about an unannounced product, it turned out to be the Xbox One.
And if Microsoft proved anything in 2013, it's that the drama surrounding video games is not as self-contained as some people think. There are still people who believe the Redmond firm's format can't play used games, and you can pretty much bank on uninformed individuals telling their friends that the PS4 is now "obsolete". That's all on Sony unless it comes out and sets the record straight. This may not be the way that it planned to roll out the PS4K, but the cat's long out of the bag, and is currently tearing lumps out of your brand new settee.
it's time to get Andrew House on the PlayStation Blog before things turn really toxic.
Do you think that Sony needs to make a statement on the PS4K, or will it be fine remaining silent until E3? Watch your language in the comments section below.
Comments 74
Tech leaks happen all the time, it doesn't mean a company should be forced to reveal it's hand before it's ready. Look at all the NX "leaks". It's all speculative until it's official. Apple for instance, the press had the iPhone 4 in hands months before it was unveiled & they just kept trucking right along.
People who follow the industry regularly are the ones who may put the brakes on a PS4 purchase soon but I have so many gamer friends who don't follow the press & are completely oblivious to most of the "news" that happens on a daily basis.
People who wanna wait & see, then wait & see. If the PS4 does what you need it to do now, then buy one now.
Well sales in March for PS4 weren't poor despite the rumours so unless sales take a nose dive in April I don't think Sony need to do anything until E3 at the earliest. It's easy to forget that we as core gamers live in a vacuum when it comes to consuming game news on a daily basis that we sometimes just assume that the wider world is aware of it too. The Xbox one situation was different because it was part of the new consoles hype and there was a collective effort by many gamers including myself demanding, begging Sony and Microsoft to not adopt the policies that X1 was going to have. And even then it didn't reach a more mainstream media until THAT E3 conference.
The official announcement is probably being saved for E3. It could be an interesting E3 with Sony, MS, and Nintendo all promoting new hardware.
Broken record time - they won't acknowledge PS4K before they sell all of those $400 branded Uncharted 4 consoles, that would just be stupid. E3 is the right time. (Nintendo is likely waiting until SFZ releases Friday before diving into NX next month. Though they might wait until E3 as well, but that's a really bad idea for a new console.)
Didnt know Neogaf was a hotbed of TS pics
Everyone I know is either confused because they don't understand what sony is trying to do or angry and sony has scored a bit of an own goal with its silence.
All Microsoft has to do is swoop in with backwards compatability, better online services, better free monthly games oh and we will never split our user base or force an upgrade on you part cycle and it will gain some of that lost ground from the worst console launch since the Sega Saturn.
"Obsolete" may be a hard word but I can't find a better one. Sony should express officially what Neo is. However with what we know so far, considering and what we see in PC gaming, games will under-perform on the base model making it somewhat obsolete before (regardless what they may say) ditching it entirely some time later if Neo sells well. I know I am extremely negative and I rarely moan in the internet but I really don't like where this is all going.
I also think they're saving it for E3. And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the leaks were leaked by Sony itself, in order to see reactions - they win win either way because A) The in-favor-of-PS4K owners simply get more hyped about the console with each 'leak' and B) the not-in-favor-of-PS4K are getting more and more accustomed to the idea of its existence that by the time the official announcement goes at E3, they simply won't feel the need to slaughter the Sony spokesperson on the spot anymore.
That said, the PS4 turned out to be the most expensive console (for the consumer) in the history of our planet, in order to get the 'full experience'.
Original PS4 - 400$
PS4K - 400$
PSVR - 400$
TOTAL (for the guy who wants the most out of his PS4): 1200$ That's a PC right there.
E3 too I reckon, people holding off on buying a PS4 is less than ideal, but not so bad if they are only doing so to get a 4.5.
@Dreamcaster-X But the difference here is that all of the official information has already leaked, and enthusiasts are extremely upset about it. They're allowing the media to outline their product in intricate detail before they've said a single thing about it.
This is not like any current NX rumours or speculation.
@Nickolaidas You can sell your PS4 to recoup some of that back - you don't need both. Add in Oculus Rift for the 'full' PC experience and this doesn't even come close...
You also don't have to build up a library of games again or wait for people to catch up and buy the new console like you did when the PS4 launched to get the 'full' benefit of online gaming - lobbies full enough to actually make games 'fun' - already 40m+ people with potential to game with.
You don't have to have the PS4k to pay any game at all. You are NOT missing out on the latest games by not buying - just look a bit less shiny. It depends on what you class as the full experience because every game will be available, every story, game content etc. Every exclusive - if you want to play Horizon you can, want to play Dreams, you can, want to play Shenmue 3 you can - all exactly the same content!
Or people need to stop hating the smallest changes to the norm and grow a pair.
@BAMozzy Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean you need to fork out 1200$ in order to play PS4 games. I meant, in order to get the 'full experience', that is, play PS4 games in the best possible way, you need to fork out 1200$. Unless you're not an early adopter, at which case you haven't yet bought a PS4 and can just skip to PS4K. Which means 800$ (unless you - and I don't mean you specifically - don't consider VR the best possible way to play X game).
I'm part of the problem here, the 30 year old me will buy PS4k on day one, the 20 year old me would be absolutely furious, as I didn't have the money to afford consoles all the time, especially after just investing into the base PS4. I do sympathize with that segment of the market.
Overall, if I had the choice, I would take the option to keep an outdated console that lasts for 6 years, over the option to have a base and luxury model, but if it enters the market.....
It's up to Sony to win me over, but I don't like the fact that they are going down this road......and as someone who is a console gamer, it absolutely does raise the question.......maybe I should just get a gaming PC?
#fortheplayers #forthemoney
I just don't understand the outrage, I honestly don't. It's pretty much a given now that the 'Neo' won't in any way affect the future of the base- PS4 user, what is the problem then? Sony's been giving guidelines to devs stating both old and new PS4 users should be treated equal, still they keep on aggressively attacking a console that's not even there yet.
In fact, the only people who have the right to be upset are people like me who actually want the Neo; I've been waiting for a new piece of hardware because I've felt the PS4 was underpowered from the get-go, and now I'm finally getting what I want and then Sony already starts shackling the console before I can even order it.
These whiners are told they'll get the exact same experience as they would've gotten otherwise, yet they can't cope with the fact that someone else will have a new shiny piece of hardware. It's plain old envy that's been fueling this discussion; "when my neighbor buys a bigger tv than I have, my TV that I was happy with till today, is worthless to me", that kind of 3 y.o's behavior. These people are collectively getting mad because they don't want others to have something if they can't have it, and seem to be proud of it as well fps!
If they can choose between them getting $10 and me getting $15, or the both of us getting $5, they'll choose the latter... They're letting their jealousy getting the upper hand and aren't thinking rationally.
@Boerewors
Who wants to play the inferior version of a game? Pretty much no one......
These whiners? Get out of here, why don't you remember back to a time in your life when 400 dollars would not have been chump change.
@Boerewors What happens if sony goes the new 3DS route and locks games behind the neo? Is that something worthy for people to complain about? Because it's starting to worry me. I own all 3 systems from this gen, and even though i have the ability to buy a neo, should i do so if sony locks content? I'm thinking no.
Remaining silent does nothing but build up negative hype. Everyone that is expecting the NX to become the second coming of christ are going to be sorely disappointed when it turns out to be another underpowered, gimmick filled console. Since the "official" specs have already been leaked on the neo, might as well just make an official announcement, get out ahead of nintendo, and bury them before they get started.
@Nickolaidas Like I said that depends on what you consider to be the best possible way. Games will have exactly the same story etc so its not like you are missing out (like BO3 on PS3). If you don't have a 4K TV any visual benefit will be lost anyway. Games like MGSv are already 1080/60 and any visual benefit on top of that would be purely cosmetic and require a 4K TV. Its not the PS4k will unlock more story, more characters, change the whole essence of the game as a result.
PSVR is purely optional too. In essence its not that much different from something like Guitar Hero where you can't play certain games unless you have the peripheral. It will still work though regardless of whether you have a PS4 or PS4k and still require you to buy 'games' as if its a new console. Yes you can use it on existing games as a 'screen'.
Are you unhappy Sony announced PSVR because now you 'have' to spend $400 just to play VR games? Its not like you will need the PS4k to play 'certain' games like you will with PSVR!
I bet you were 'happy' to play PS4 games for the next few years at what-ever level they are and so you still can. All Sony are opting to do is release a console that makes games a bit more shiny - not replace the PS4. Its NOT stopping you play any of the games you had intended on buying before this and probably at the same visual presentation too.
@sub12
That's the point: is it really "inferior" if it's exactly the same version as you've been given otherwise?? A new and improved PS4 doesn't make your old PS4 less powerful, you'll just won't have the most powerful console anymore.
You can ask any Xbox One gamer that it doesn't matter for you that there is a console out that's more powerful. I understand you're not living in a vacuum, but if Sony guarantees you'll get the same games and features and that nothing changes for you, why does it upset you that I have a better framerate?
This is the new reality because it's isn't realistic to expect manufacturers to fund 40% of the consoles like the used to; they'll use off the shelf parts that are cheap and readily available and build a lean and mean console every 3 years. And because of the forward (till a certain extent) and backwards compatibility the games we buy today are still playable in 10 years.
I'm living in a 3rd world country and a new PS4 would mean that the base PS4 will become cheaper and our people will finally be able to afford it, without having to play last gen games. Sony will sell so many more consoles and software because of this and if people would just see the bigger picture they would understand this decision better. If Sony and MS don't come up with a new business model and if we as gamers stay as stubborn as we are, there won't be any games or consoles left to play for us in 10 years.
If the leak is accurate, then my mind is made up (I won't get the PS4K, but I don't see it as a bad thing and am totally cool if others want it), but I do agree that there should be clarification on this. When it comes down to it, all we have are rumors and leaks with some word of mouth from industry guys, but nothing "official". Clarity would really be appreciated, as for all we know, it may not be what it seems like.
@Napples
At a certain point Sony will allow for devs to make games that are better on Neo (but probably still playable on the old PS4), but you need to understand that it isn't very likely that the big publishers will neglect a 40- 50 million base- PS4 gamers install base just like that.
The beauty of the architecture that they are using is that 10 years from now people will still be able to play games that just launched. This will be mostly indies, games that are not as taxing and sportsgames, but it'll be so much easier for EA for example to make a "legacy FIFA" within the same architecture, than to develop it for a totally different console like they have to do now.
Here in South Africa most people still play on their PS3s, but they hardly get new games, in the future there will be tons of games that will still be able to be enjoyed on the consoles even if they're 10 years old.
This new model will make the current PS4 much cheaper and there will be a lively after market. This means more "penetration" and ultimately more sales of software, hardware and subscriptions to Plus, Now and Vue. Gamers will need to adapt to new business models, and not just on the hardware side of things: developing games has become expensive and incredibly risky and we'll have to get used to episodical and seasonal content, more DLC and F2P games.
Ultimately there will be a democratization of the console market where everyone will be able to play games. People with little cash can buy a cheaper console and still play with "rich" people. If you don't have money for games, or you don't feel like spending $60 on it, you can just play it for free because other people with more disposable income keep on buying costumes. You'll be able to try an episode for $15 and if you don't like it you won't pay for the other episodes etc etc.
I hear so many people saying this will affect people that have little money negatively, but the complete opposite is true if you really think about it.
I'm all for it personally. Consoles are becoming more like a PC. Soon the lines between console and PC will blur
@viciousarcanum that norm has been since 1978 and what's wrong with expecting a 5-7 year generation?
If we want minor upgrades we will all end up on PC.
@get2sammyb All the people who are saying "Sony should tell us about PS4K NOW" are all the same people who after Sony's E3 sucks would be saying - "Why did Sony talk about the PS4K in April? Why not wait until E3 so their E3 didn't suck? They had nothing new to show." Sony already has talked about PSVR out the wazoo. FFXV is all over the place. No Man's Sky is out a few days after E3, Uncharted 4 will be out already. If Sony talks about PS4K now what do you expect them to talk about at E3 while Nintendo is busy showing off NX and Zelda NX? The Last Guardian? Horizons? Dreams? Old, old, old. It was already all down hill after last years trifecta of FF7, S3 and TLG, you gotta leave them something for 3. PS4K is it.
Good article points.
Although I'm not interested in buying the 4K, I definitely understand why people who already have the PS4 is upset though. Sony is in a big lead up from their competition with sales and all so, what are they afraid of? If this so called upgrade is in the regards of "keeping with the times" or just for the sake of having the best of the best console out there on the market then, why bother? These other companies (3rd party's) are saying that it will be compatible with the current PS4 model and no 4K exclusives. Imo I don't think this is a good idea for them (Sony) to do this because they would be making the original PS4 obsolete.
Sony has everything going right for them in a major positive way in regards to the PlayStation brand right now. Why make your consumers mad (the one's who are mad about this anyway)?
Just save all of your next console ideas for the PS5, Sony.
@sub12 exactly my thoughts, it makes me just wanna get a PC that will immediately be a lot stronger and cheaper than a PS4.
The big issue is the expectation with a gaming console is you won't have to upgrade it for a long while. Changing that (PS4K) makes myself an others un happy because we will be having a sub par visual experience, and in the gaming world, that's everything!
@Napples
I'm with you on that. I'm giving Sony the benefit of the doubt but if games eventually get locked out of the base model PS4 that's straight bs.
As far as the article. What can really be said? The news is out there, the reaction is extremely negative and there's nothing that can reverse it.
seriously dosent anyone remember sega shambles.
Main issues you buy a new ps4 next week ps4 neo is announce you would be pissed.
Second the millions of ps 4 users get a crap version of a game not full resolution & frame rate issues then neo is all fine.
Third you see it as a stop gap & wait for ps 5.
Just ask anyone involved in selling games about the total balls up with wii u & confusion created by nintendo. & with the 3ds.
@Anguspuss
Not even remotely the same situation as Sega, people need to stop bringing it up.
I guess this is what happens when consoles become lower end PCs in a branded box. To be honest, though Ive been gaming since the Atari 2600, this is the point where Im done with buying consoles. PC just seems like the better option.
@Gamer83 it is similar as in p*ssing of your core customer. Look at the xb1 fiasco at launch & look at the console lead ps4 have. MS is in a shambles just now. The big N have burnt to many gamers since the SNES to be a worry. So sony only has it all to throw away.
Language - get2sammyb
@Napples All of the leaked document we've seen suggests they absolutely won't do that - but this is why they need to come out and comment. Right now, people are worried, and the fact that all we have to work with are rumours don't help.
@Gamer83 True, but by going public they get to present the case from their own perspective. Right now, all we have to go on are rumours and leaks; very, very detailed rumours and leaks, yes - but it's still not official information. That leads to misunderstandings and misconceptions, which are already beginning to fester.
@Anguspuss
MS is in 'shambles' all the way to 20 mil sales and Xbox One is out-pacing the 360 in its same time on the market. There's no doubt this move has created anger, I'm not arguing that with you, but I also think a lot of it is overreaction. There's no PS4K only games, there's nothing yet to suggest games will be unplayable on the vanilla PS4. It's just like the New 3DS, there has been one isolated incident where the devs f'ed up Hyrule Warriors for the base model, that game is also, frankly, a mediocre game from a decent at best developer. No dev worth its salt is going to create unplayable vanilla PS4 versions of its games. The 'Neo' version of some may blow away the version for the original, we'll have to see, but I don't think it's going to change things nearly as much as people think. The only thing I'd be slightly worried about is if MS is also doing a half-step in similar fashion, now devs have to create four different versions for two consoles, plus the NX and PC. Some of the mid-tier studios may struggle to adapt, the good indies and the good AAA studios will figure it out though.
I have had the PS4 since launch and can't wait for PS4K. I bet there are millions of long time PS4 owners out there that are ready to upgrade.
@get2sammyb
You're probably right in that at least getting something out there just to acknowledge they hear the concerns if nothing else, is better than nothing. However, people are still going to believe what they want to believe. Sony can say itself 'no game will be exclusive to the new PS4' and people will still believe what they want to believe about the old console being 'obsolete' or whatever. The internet gaming community loves to overreact when there's no reason to but ignores very real issues like not having the option to use external harddrives in 2016 or paying $60 for a fighting game that should be free-to-play. As they say, it is what it is.
@wittypixel
Yup, I agree, if MS and Sony are going to shove down new hardware iterations every three years..............what makes consoles special anymore?
Why not just buy a gaming PC if that's the case?
If by buying ps4k I can play uncharted 4, bloodborne, ratchet and clank, dark souls 3, the witcher 3, grand theft auto 5, horizon zero dawn, gravity rush 2 and final fantasy 15 in 60 fps I'm in.
The pc comparison is weird, the graphics card alone can cost $400, do not forget the motherboard, ram, hdd, power supply, good gamepad, and of course the time to put all of those and the time to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Isn't that a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face?
@BAMozzy Not at all. I'm neither happy nor unhappy - well, that's not true. I'm happy that my chances to play most PS4 games at 60fps have now increased. But I feel that you are avoiding the point I'm trying to make, so I'll leave it at that.
@sub12 shrugs exclusives?
What do guys think about Shuhei saying he's unsure if there'll be a PS5?
@WanderingBullet
I think there won't be ps5, only playstation (insert year). Every 3 year there will be new playstation @$400, your game will be backward compatible at least 6 year for AAA game, 10 year for 2D indie & sport game (with last gen engine, like fifa in ps3), it will be like ipad/iphone, some people will upgrade every time there's new playstation, the rest will upgrade when their favorite game doesn't supported anymore.
Like some of my friend have the latest galaxy smartphone (s7 edge), and the other still happy with the old one (s4). The older ps4 will still be sold in store cheaply for people that only want to play indie & sport game or watch netflix/bluray.
Even now there are games which werent optimized at launch on ps4. For example Just cause 3. Do you guys think that if on ps4k The game will run perfect, devs would optimize hiccups on ps4? I really dont think So. The margin what optimize and what not will be pushed. Because optimizing is always pain in The ass.
This is problem mainly for multiplats. Of course it depends also on how many ps4k are sold.
On The other Hand i agree with your arguments for ps4k.
And sorry for big letters its my phone
rumors, leaks, and more rumors
Just heard that Microsoft is also workin on a new/updated XboxOne wich can be upgraded ...
seriously: if all that fuss is true, than our beloved PS4 (and also XboxOne) will be "LastGen" soon. I highly doubt that developers will focus on "the old" PS4/One when developing new games. And if its just because of the fact that the "PS4k/Neo" has full 1080p/60fps as a Standard - that will mean that the same game will run and look much worse on the initial plattforms (I think of "Shadow of Mordor" - just compare the PS4 Version to the PS3 Version ... thats what came to my mind now).
All we can do now is wait until E3.
And: new Sony and MS consoles would mean that Nintendo will be pushed back technically and lose all their competition they may have had with the "NX". If the "NX" is technically "almost" on the same level as PS4/One, than it will be surely way too weak to hold up with the new and updated Versions of the Sony and MS consoles - which means for BigN: destroyed before even Releasing the Concept/final Name and Specs for their upcomin console, Third Partys will turn away (again!) completely and so on ..
Sony and MS Fans, people who just got a PS4/One - the diehard community, all split in two.
Sounds like horror? Indeed
Maybe just an opportunity out of many..
I'm really excited for this and will probably get one on launch, people are so negative about change these days but this will also benefit those who have the current PS4 by expanding its lifespan.
The new console from the most part uses the exact same components just overclocked, the exciting part is the gpu as the specs don't relate to any existing AMD card and suggest the new Polaris technology is used. This should make games easy to develop for both versions, with those who upgrade getting a nice graphical boost. I doubt we'll have many games in 4k but we should now see a standard of 1080p 60fps without having to cutback on graphical fidelity as is the case in MGSV.
There is an article on Eurogamer which has details of how Sony has instructed developers that all features must be identical between the platforms as well as minimum resolutions and other things. One of these is that the games online components will be fully compatible with each other. The reality is the current hardware is becoming out of date quicker than at any point in any consoles lifespan, so this at the very least is the best option to extend that. Not to mention that this is probably necessary for the future of PSVR (coincidence in the rumoured launch, Morpheus/Neo). This will not split the community, everyone will be playing the exact same games with the same features and will be playing everybody online, just some will be doing so with better framerates and possibly resolution
@Boerewors It's pretty much a given now that the 'Neo' won't in any way affect the future of the base- PS4 user, what is the problem then?
This is only PR talk, that is the problem.
If all the rumors are true than Sony is releasing some kind of PS5 with compatibility to PS4 - and this will split the community.
From IGN comments:
At Sony Headquarters
"Our exclusives are selling like crap but our console is selling through the roof. It's obvious the consumers want more consoles and less exclusives!"
LOL. Anyway, I can understand the frustration especially for those who recently bought a PS4. And who's to say the devs won't neglect the 40M old PS4 users? Maybe not at PS4K launch but when it sells significantly enough (20M PS4K) that they start neglecting oldPS4 and push them to upgrade. Neglecting in a way that the games are more optimized to run in the PS4K.
@Splatburst totally agree!!!
Why are pro PS4.5 excited about the new console, if it's the same experience as the PS4? Because It's NOT the same it has updated graphics and frame rates at 1080p This will kill the value of trade in or sale of the current PS4 to buy a PS4.5. I can see GameStop doing the happy dance now. The fact that its also coming out the same time as PSVR another $400! If PS4.5 was dropping next year It would have been a little easier to take. VR is Something I was excited about and planing to buy. Surprise! Updated better console alert.. $400 new console. Lets see how you feel if yet another PS is announced in 2 1/2 years. The best selling console ever only lasted 2 1/2 years. Everyone should be ok with this?
I don't think so, and NO I am not even close to OK with this.
I'm still not too fussed but hopefully they will clarify what the situation is by E3. I'll probably upgrade to the new version.
@Boerewors Are you Donald Trump's speech writer?
Microsoft need to tell their Fans about the New Xbox ONE.5 to. Which if this is true then I bet MS are making a upgrade to the X1(I am sure MS were the 1St ones to say they were thinking about it a few months ago) + how can SONY say that a Newer better version of the PS4 is coming out?! That would hurt PS4 sales. So just like MS they are saying nothing(I bet) + I still don't believe all this tho
They may acknowledge it but if it's not coming out until Q1 2017 like initially rumored the reveal won't be at E3.
I think it should be clear that this isn't like the next model of iPhone or even like the Nintendo NX. Everyone knows there will be a new iPhone iteration every year - the intereset is over features. The NX has been on the cards for awhile now so any publicity is all good to building hype.
Sony are potentially readying a product that no one expected or really asked for. It is not even like VR where it is new. It is a contentious release. I think that Sony may have dropped the ball already. Leaks are to be expected, particularly when you are talking to devs and sending out dev kits. Sony are caught - any admission of a new version will hit the mainstream press and consumers and PS4 sales will die till release. However, a lack of news is infurating loyal consumers who are also a key target market for the machine.
They should have had a plan for the first leak other than no comment. If they had led on the whole 4K thing, maybe shown off that element and tried not to emphasise the whole dual mode thing it could have been spun positively.
I understand the anger. I bought a PS4 and Vita in the last 13 months. The Vita is fine, I knew it was at the end of its lifecycle, I don't feel cheated. The PS4, I bought, thinking I had at least 3-4 years before the next upgrade performance. Now I feel a little like a chump for not waiting longer. That is how a lot of people feel.
@andreoni79
I just want to make the industry great again...
I was gonna offer myself a ps4 on my brithday in September. So maybe i'll wait a bit for the ps4.5 than ,
@Boerewors Developers are on crunch time to release their game as soon as possible to reduce expenses. You think their publisher/investor will go saying "hey since now we have to make PS4 & PS4K both version in one disc, we will give u all more money & time"
More often than not one of the SKU will get more focus, and more often than not the newer SKU will be favored. Because there are people like you, calling those who still using older PS4 "poor whiners" because their game is not as optimised as the new PS4K
@wiiware I certainly hope that is not the case. Maybe he just wants to quash peoples concerns that we might get a PS5 in two or three years time.
Nintendo are expected to be replacing the Wii U with the Nintendo NX. The 'rumours' are that this will be at least 30% more powerful than the PS4 - maybe even more. We all know the XB1 is less 'powerful' than the PS4 - certainly where the GPU is concerned (around 50% weaker) which is why it struggles to match the PS4 - at least in a games performance. In both the PS4 and XB1, both Sony and MS have given 'everything' they can to developers to use to make their games 'run' better on their respective consoles - MS by basically ditching Kinect and freeing up its resources and Sony by unlocking the 7th core - short of streamlining the OS or even shutting it down during game-play, these consoles are pretty much at their limit. Its not like last gen where developers had to get used to the architecture and how to develop/port games to it for optimum performance, developers are 'struggling' to get their games to run. A lot of that is down to the CPU and games are very GPU heavy - a lot of the processes that could be assigned to the CPU are having to run on the GPU.
So what does that mean?
What it means is that if developers want to 'improve' on the current wave, as games tend to do, its getting more and more difficult to maintain a certain standard. Yes they probably could hit 1080/60 in every game by compromising on the game. Look at Uncharted 4 and compare that to the Nathan Drake collection. Both 1080p and even without considering the Jeep, the wider areas, the grappling hook etc, its clear that one is significantly 'better' than the other in terms of the character models, the lighting, the destruction, the particle effects etc. No doubt you can see 'big' differences between other franchises that have had remasters on this gen and compared to games in the franchise made for this gen. Unless we expect game development to plateau despite all the new technology, chances are that games are going to be increasingly difficult to maintain even a 1080/30 on the current PS4 - even a 900/30 on XB1. Dark Souls 3, I believe, has an unstable 30fps on both consoles.
With the NX expecting to release this year, the PS4 will no longer be the most powerful console. If the NX is as easy to programme for and its extra power isn't being used for 'hardware' - like running graphics on a touchpad controller at the same time as the game on the TV, it potentially could get 3rd party support with games running 'better' (1080/60) compared to PS4 (1080/30) and XB1 (900/30). As games get bigger/better etc, the visual quality is the first to be sacrificed. Whilst this doesn't necessarily affect the game play, the story, etc its something that people will consider when buying a console and, if you own more than one console, which version to buy. I know other factors may come into play like 3rd party deals, MP and friends etc.
From a console manufacturers PoV, If the NX is the most powerful and can offer 3rd Party games at a better 'performance', then what will that do for its own console sales? You can argue that MS's pre launch statements regarding the XB1 hurt its initial sales but even though they back-tracked on all the negative points, its the cheapest system and has Backwards Compatibility, its consistently still losing out on sales to the PS4. Its not shied away from releasing 'exclusives' either and all of its 'big' franchises have at least made an appearance - with Gears 4 releasing this year, Its biggest franchises will all of had new games. Its also had a number of new IP exclusives too like Titanfall, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break etc but still can't match PS4's sales. No doubt if/when the NX launches, we could see the XB1 and PS4 sales drop - unless either can offer something 'new' and more powerful.
I fully expect that MS will launch a 'new' console. I think its 'unlikely' to be XB1.5 because of their UWP. Its already utilising this on XB1 (for example) where XB360 games are playable with XB360 owners online. Its not separated them up (ie XB360 BC games are only playable with other XB1 owners) and party chat woks across all windows/xbox devices. As a result, I expect that MS will opt for a new, more powerful '4th' Xbox to slot into its 'eco-system' and maybe even powerful enough to offer Oculus Rift Support. It means that it could offer VR to its 'users' but only to those on the new system. It also gives developers the 'option' to opt of releasing a much more compromised (visually) game - ie can forego a 720-900/30 game if they want - especially if they are making up the 'deficit' on the Nintendo NX.
For Sony though, the PS4k makes more sense. It doesn't have the 'UWP' for a 'new' console/device to slip into. They appear to be doing what they can to ensure that the 'base' model is supported and that the user base isn't 'split'. It means that if/when this console launches - every game currently available will run - so no need to build up yet another new library, all future games will be available to all PS4 owners (no 'Neo' exclusives) with NO 'extras' to PS4k owners (so you won't get a PS3 BO3 type experience compared to PS4 owners), all online games will be supported (no need to wait for players to upgrade so the lobbies actually have players) etc etc. Its essentially extended the life of the vanilla PS4. I doubt many would have been surprised if the PS5 launched next year which would split the user base and potentially condemn the PS4.
From a business and sales perspective, it makes sense to me for Sony to go this route. We already see 'many' people complain that games don't run at 60fps now or that a game can't hit 1080p certainly don't see that many hitting both 1080p and 60fps (I know there are a few) so if NX comes along and games run better on that, where will that leave the current hardware?
I fully expect Sony and MS to make an announcement, if not at E3, soon after. I also believe that the reason we haven't had an announcement is because certain aspects may not be finalised - such as its 'design' or some of its hardware - like Bluray player (4k or upscaling), HDD size? etc. Its game related specs are 'needed' for developers to know what they have available, how these work together to be able to make their games 'run' Maybe the CPU (for example) could be changed for a better/faster CPU but the 'minimum' it will be will be as described. Even before the XB1 launched and after announcement, it had its CPU overclocked (made faster). Chances are Sony are trying to finalise the final design and hardware specs so they can announce it officially. It looks unprofessional to announce something without a picture or model. How can they answer questions like what's it look like, what size is it, will it play uhd blurays, what HDD size has it got if these things aren't finalised yet...
This really reminds me of the period before the reveal of the Xbox One, where rumour and speculation was gathering steam and the response was fairly vitriolic - hopefully Sony do a better job of dealing with that than Microsoft did, or they could undo a lot of the good will they've generated with the PS4 so far.
This is most likely the year I pick up a PS4 (though I think I said that about last year too) and I'm open to wait for Neo if it's going to be announced at E3. If it's not going to be released this year however, I'll just grab the vanilla.
Sony never seem to be far from dropping the ball when the going's good. I wonder if this is their ball-dropping moment of this gen?!
Just say no to PS4K.
@whywai88
I'm not saying people with a PS4 are whiners, I say people who are still crying foul after it's made clear that Sony won't allow disparity are a bunch of whiners. The thing isn't even announced yet and people are willing to go to (virtual) war!
You should stop thinking console, start thinking PC, yet with all the benefits a console has. I'm specifically saying that in the long run PS4 users will even benefit from this, because with the new architecture games simply scale to the old or new hardware. Sure, there won't be the type of optimization that we once saw, but the only reason there was so much optimization in the PS360 era was because those consoles were way too expensive for both Sony and MS as the consumers when they came out. This time around we didn't get hardware that left much room for the optimization as we once knew it and we got it at a fair price and the manufacturers didn't lose any money on it.
People need to see the bigger picture, need to see how much this will open up the market. There are 40- 45 million PS4's sold by the end of this year? Whoopdidoo! There are at least a billion people out there that would want a ps4 at he right price, but probably more like 2 billion. To take this step now will democratize the market and will make it possible not just for me to buy a PS4, but for my fellow countrymen as well! We don't care if you can run it at 60fps, we would die to play Horizon Zero Dawn in any way! Do you realize that where I live people are still playing on their PS2s? We get people over who's kids go mad when they see my PS3 hooked up and that's before I show them my gaming room. These people will be able to afford a PS4 on which they can play many of the latest games on for 10 years to come, just like they can buy an iPhone 5 that people in the West no longer care about; it gives them acces to iOS, the same as people in the west use and a love for Apple is born the very minute they can play Clash of Clans or whatever... Sony can do this, PlayStation can be everywhere. 40 million PS4s, don't make me laugh: they can sell that amount of PS4s in Brazil alone at the right price.
I have no interest in incremental console upgrades. A fragmented, whether It actually happens that way or not, Sony user base is bad mojo. It bit Sega in the rear, it prevents many good things from happening with Android, and all but made Windows downright laughable until the past few years. VR will also split the users. It happened with Kinect and Microsoft hurt the Xbox brand because of it. However, I'm truly excited, yet hesitant, about whatever Nintendo has up their sleeve with NX. I know the big N isn't as appealing as it was through my rose colored glasses, but what they do is timeless. The Wii U is underpowered and the game pad seems like a gimmick, but that console is where I've had the most "fun" this generation. PS4 games are great too, but in a different way.
I respectfully disagree.
Firstly, I think Easy Allies hit the nail on the head when they theorised this being a controlled leak of information. I personally agree with them on that one, but even if it isn't I think Sony should wait.
The two things Sony have right now are the most important: mystery and people's attention. Even if people are angry or fuming, everyone is watching them right now. And in 2 months (which isn't that long of a wait), they can react to what's going on and figure that into how they sell it to everyone come E3. If they came out now with some sort of statement now, it would be rushed, it would probably flop and it would destroy that sense of mystery.
At E3 however, they not only can give the information on the hardware, but they can put it all into context with other software, the base PS4 console, VR and everything else. To truly sell it, only a longer conference can do that - by preparing this now, they can answer everyone's questions that have built up.
With the Xbox One build up, I'd say the largest thing that went against it was purely the fact that the original ideas driving the console were just awful - if that had come out and was the best thing since sliced bread, everyone would've forgotten their grievances.
Obviously, like anything - it depends on the delivery and what this thing is fully, but I think waiting will be more beneficial in the long run, because right now everyone has one question: "What is going on?". And as long as you have that question, you have everyone's attention. People have changed their minds in the past and gotten over grievances if the right kind of idea is being spread.
If E3 were say 7/8 months away, I might feel differently. But it isn't, it's 2. And that's not a long time away. And with potential rivals in the form of Nintendo, going pound for pound is the best strategy.
@Churchy Away with you! Reason and common sense have no place on the Internet - BEGONE!!
@Nickolaidas I'M MELTING!!!
@Boerewors "an iPhone 5 that people in the West no longer care about"...
I don't know if you consider Europe part of the West, but I'd like to tell you that in Europe there are 342 billionaires and 123.000.000 men and women in risk of poverty. If you are lucky enough to have a job here in Italy, you may earn 6/7 euros per hour and an iPhone 5 is € 400. That "people" you used must be referring to someone I don't know. Using the word "whiners" and talking about poors that can finally play PS4 games thanks to the rich ones who buy a new console every 2 years just made me sick. I consider myself a lucky one since I can still buy me a game per month after losing my job and home in 2009. I hope you enjoy your NPS4, but please spare us your consumistic fantasies...
@johncalmc
I think this is planned leak to see how the ps4 crowd will react, Ps4k is a good move if it can lower the base ps4 price.
I will be buying the PS4K on day one I feel like this is what the current PS4 should of been capable of doing in the first place such as be able to play games in 4k and having a more powerful processor
@andreoni79 @andreoni79
Lol, Mediterranean people talking bout their poverty always crack me up. I've visited Italy on more than one occasion, but aside from some refugees and Roma and Sinti, people are just fine.
6/7 an hour? And you're telling me that's bad? I'm fortunate enough to have a job that pays me reasonably well, but my brother for example is glad when he earns €300 a month... That's right, a month. And in Italy I can buy me a PS4 with a game and controller for €350, here I'm lucky to find one for €550. You don't know poverty, you don't know what it is to be hungry, to go to bed at night without supper for 2 weeks straight because there is no money. To be fed stale white bread with self made "peanut butter" for most of your childhood and wear shoes so long that you toes literally start growing out.
I'm positive that a change in console's gamers mentality can democratize the console market and make for a better console penetration. If new consoles are available every 3 years that use the same architecture, then people in Africa and South America won't be paying €500, but €200 for these consoles. The industry has to change whether you like it or not, this has got nothing to do with people in developing countries who aren't taken into account foolishly enough btw , so I rather focus on the positive side effects than keep on WHINING that your neighbor might have a better framerate playing Battlefield 5 than you do come November.
I'd really like an official announcement from sony in regard to whats going to happen with current PS4 titles on Neo -For example,Is my backlog of titles at 30fps going to be 60fps on Geo - and is that going to be free patches for each game or "Ultimate Definitive Edition" for each at full price again? Until Ps4.75 When its "Ultimate Definitive Super God like Edition" again at full price.The whole blueprint for multiple versions of the same game on different versions of console potentially introduces a lot of different issues that can't be fixed by user due to closed architecture.
Hope all those moaning can move on with their lives and continue gaming on a console, that up until this rumour, was a perfectly good gaming machine.
I am fairly neutral on this at the moment and will probably wait to see if there is a meaningful difference in quality. If the details are correct it seems like the significant GPU upgrade would be bottlenecked by more minor upgrades elsewhere.
To use the PC analogy if Base is Recommended spec and Neo is Ultra then nobody should have a poor experience. The concern would be if Base became the equivalent of Minimum spec over time.
Longer term I see some problems if the next upgrade is PS5. Would PS4.5 then be the "base"? Or cut out entirely which might make for a very short product lifecycle.
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