How do you review a game that never ends? The latest expansion in the Destiny 2 cycle – The Witch Queen – arrives amidst typical controversy as the excellent Forsaken campaign is removed – excuse me, vaulted – to supposedly make room for it. We’ve got mixed feelings about the whole situation. On the one hand, nobody could feasibly accuse Destiny 2 of lacking content – the Destinations screen is a borderline-overwhelming mass of varied activities, and the Shadowkeep, Beyond Light, and now The Witch Queen campaigns remain available. However, it remains an anti-consumer decision to remove what was once paid content in the Red War, Curse of Osiris, Warmind, and now Forsaken campaigns. The latter in particular, as mentioned, was tremendous, and it’s a genuine crying shame to see it go. Some will argue that gamers have had plenty of time to download and enjoy Forsaken; we say that’s beside the point. Bungie have previously claimed that vaulted content will return; it remains to be seen whether or not that’s true. Who knows if we'll even be able to play this expansion in a few years' time? But we digress – is The Witch Queen worth the loss of Forsaken?
Well, yes. Forsaken was great, but The Witch Queen is the best Destiny expansion in the series' history. It has the most interesting and enjoyable story, surprisingly diverse gameplay in the main missions, and the same marvellous shooting and evocative landscapes that we've all come to expect from Bungie. It's the first time since The Taken King that we've felt truly satisfied with paid Destiny content.
Of course, this is by necessity something of a "review in progress" - the new Raid, Vow of the Disciple, doesn't drop until 4th March, and much of the seasonal content remains to be seen. This coverage, then, will be focusing on the campaign experience and new mechanics introduced. One of which happens to be weapon crafting, a system that solves a longstanding issue with Destiny 2 without solving several others. Crafting a weapon assures you can develop it to the specifications that you want, rather than being at the mercy of RNG. It doesn't, however, allow you to circumvent the colossal amount of grinding that will still be required. 'Course, that effectively amounts to killing enemies with your favourite weapon, so it's hardly a huge imposition.
What is a huge imposition (in a manner of speaking) is the campaign itself, specifically the new Legendary mode that amps up the difficulty of the main story missions while also exponentially improving the rewards. In a nice touch, you now get loot drops mid-level – this amusingly threw us off a couple of times as we stood around expecting the mission to end. These missions are lengthy and the most involved of any of the series' campaigns to date, especially with Legendary mode changing the campaign from something you do once just to see it into something you'll run multiple times for fun. And it's tough, with some lighter Raid-style puzzling mechanics making their way into the fold for the first time, not to mention the platforming. Rarely have we platformed so, in pitch blackness over an endless void, shooting tumours to splatter glowing pus on the miniscule crags that the game expects us to vault to. Do we sound like we weren't enjoying it? Far from the case, but we suspect others will disagree. First-person platforming is something of an acquired taste, after all.
Story-wise The Witch Queen is an exhilarating rollercoaster of plot revelations, pay-offs, and exciting new directions to watch for in the remaining announced expansions (Lightfall and The Final Shape, incidentally, most likely coming 2023 and 2024 respectively). As Destiny 2 veterans we were enthralled by the vitality of the whole thing – it's easily the best story Bungie has offered up since, well, Halo Reach, and it rather shines a spotlight on the relative weakness of previous expansion storylines in the process. One of the things that makes the story work so well is Savathûn (the titular Witch Queen herself); unlike previous Destiny 2 antagonists, she's a constant presence in the campaign rather than just a rote boss battle awaiting bullets upside her head. Her actions, motivation and behaviour inform the narrative at each step of the way; we'd go so far as to say in a franchise with a surplus of extremely cool antagonists, Savathûn is easily the most compelling of the lot.
As good as The Witch Queen is, there's an extent to which it resembles a kind of surrender; while this is Destiny 2's peak in terms of gameplay and story, only half of that is going to matter to new players. We'd say jump in with both feet, but the fact is Destiny 2 is not welcoming at all to newbies at this point and Bungie doesn't seem to be entirely interested in ensuring it ever will be. That's not to say new people can't play – of course they can – but like hell are they going to understand what's going on, especially with the earliest campaign content entirely removed with no indication it's ever going to come back. By all means dive in, but don't expect to get it without a helping hand.
Conclusion
Despite its shortcomings as an entry point for new players, there's a lot packed into The Witch Queen worth appreciating – we haven't even mentioned the new Glaive weapon type that combines melee with long-range attacks, the hugely enjoyable new Lost Sectors, or the overhaul to the Void subclass, bringing it more in line with Beyond Light's Stasis. This pushes the number of viable types to "two", which isn't great, but Arc and Solar should be getting a similar upgrade in the (hopefully) near future. Seasonal content will continue to deliver story as 2022 wears on, but obviously the quality of it cannot be judged yet – the expansion isn't even complete at the time of typing, what with the new Raid yet to drop. Still, this is Destiny 2 at its very best and a pleasingly vital expansion to what remains a superb game.
Comments 54
More highbrow than The Sixth Axis' failed review.
I play this regularly with my brother. He gets every expansion where I get maybe one per year or two. I did pick this one up and have been enjoying jumping back in.
I think it's quite scummy to remove content people paid for , then again it's an always online game so whoever buys these expansions are only renting them anyway
@Would_you_kindly It funny how Destiny is the only game doing this tho. You can literally play through all 10 years of FFXIV content from start to finish.
My kid just started playing Destiny 2 a few weeks ago when a friend bought it for them on Steam on sale for like $10. They were rushing to try to finish it before it went away so I'm guessing it was Forsaken. They said they wouldn't be getting this b/c it was like $60, also got Elden Ring on Friday and planning on taking a few weeks with that. They'll play this eventually I suppose.
@Floki it's not a problem for most gamers because most gamers are one & done , I like to replay games that I really enjoy though so it's a shame to think that some games will just be unplayable in the future
That was a good read. I remember when I used to know what was going on in Destiny, I'd be grinding for this to get enough of that to trade in for one of those. I'm lost these days. Bet it's a great time with some regular buddies.
@Would_you_kindly what do you mean by removed content?
Curious since Sony is buying these guys
@Would_you_kindly Most games people may one and done. People who play Destiny and other MMOs, though? Not remotely. It's ALL about replaying stuff.
@RevGaming It's a live service game, so content released in expansions is "vaulted"/removed when a new expansion releases. I don't personally have any issue at all with it, some of the content needs to go as the way it works just doesn't work once new content is put on top. Other removals are kinda weird though and don't always make sense I think.
The whole thing is more of an experience, like going to a concert or watching a pay-per-view boxing match. You pay your money knowing it won't last forever, but have a good time while you can and enjoy the memories, and if you arrive late you have to accept that you missed out.
That's what I love about Destiny to be honest, that first year is never coming back!
@RevGaming there was a paid story expansion called the forsaken they decided to remove it to 'make room' for this new expansion so they made it free from 7th of December till it was removed on 22nd of this month
@RevGaming Since late 2020 (3 years after original release), they've been removing some of the oldest content when new expansions are released. I believe the original campaign as well as some content from the early expansions are no longer playable.
I don't really follow Destiny much so I'm quite possibly speaking out of turn, but everything I hear about this game is that it's a mess.
It's mind blowing to me that this is the developer Sony bought to learn about live service games from. I know it's still popular, but even the fact that the game remains utterly impenetrable to newcomers and basically just appeals to its own isolated set of fans suggests to me that Bungie don't have the best grasp on how to do this.
But again, I don't follow it closely enough to have an informed opinion.
@kyleforrester87 So is the content removed the campaign? IS there a campaign? I think I played the first one (Mr. Dinklage played a robot of some sort) but never got too far. It was kind of difficult and the story did not grab me. Although over the years I keep thinking I need to jump in, but I guess not if there is no real entry point for new people.
@get2sammyb they should've bought mihoyo genshins great & I don't usually like live service games
@get2sammyb It's pretty clear that Bungie have been playing jazz with Destiny since the very beggining to be honest. In fact it's pretty amazing how well they have done despite that.
@frankmcma There is certainly a campaign yes, but how it all ties together now, combined with the F2P version, I simply do not know anymore.
If I am honest I had a hard time trying to get into Warframe several years after release for the same reason.
Maybe just wait and see if they make a Destiny 3 at this point
@kyleforrester87 ew. Why can't they just do it like Monster Hunter?
@Would_you_kindly Thanks. That's letting me know I will never play this. Hope Sony doesn't follow and follows more games like Monster Hunter or FF14.
@Voltan
@RevGaming it's great if you keep up with the series and don't mind content being removed but if you fall off the horse or can't stand the idea of not being able to go back to all the old content, you're out.
@kyleforrester87 Nah. Don't like the idea. Same reason I hate battle passes. It doesn't respect your time and you play because of fomo, not because the game is good (I played tlou remastered with no new content more than these every day is something new type games).
@Would_you_kindly @RevGaming For what it is worth, this is the justification for vaulting content.
Destiny 2 is too large to efficiently update and maintain.
The size and complexity of the game are also contributing to more bugs and less innovation.
Instead of building a Destiny 3 and leaving D2 behind, each year, we are going to cycle older, less actively played content out of the live game and into what we’re calling the Destiny Content Vault (DCV).
This will allow us to add to and support D2 for years, including the three new annual expansions we announced today, starting with Beyond Light this fall.
The DCV will include all content from Destiny 1 and anything that cycles out from Destiny 2.
We will bring back (or “unvault”) activity and destination content from the DCV each year.
Unvaulting starts in D2 Year 4, with the Cosmodrome coming back, as well as its three strikes and the return of the Vault of Glass raid.
The primary D2 content leaving the game and going into the DCV this fall are the destinations – Mars, Io, Titan, Mercury and Leviathan – and their supported activities.
There will be new ways to earn the Exotics originally linked to content that has entered the DCV.
When Beyond Light ships, the Director will have the following destinations:
Europa (new)
Cosmodrome (unvaulted)
Moon
Tangled Shore
Dreaming City
European Dead Zone
Nessus
This approach allows us respond to player feedback more rapidly, enable more innovation, and will keep Destiny 2 and your characters thriving for years to come.
More details to come soon and throughout the year.
Skill Up is frequently talking about Destiny 2, which already made me curious. When Sony bought Bungie, I thought there must be certainly more to this game. I fired up the base game, which is free-to-play and was immediately super confused. Characters start at max level (all abilities unlocked) and you just grind gear for a higher light level (gear score). I spawned in the middle of some sort of game show and had no idea what was going on. I retreated back to the tower and met some nice players that helped me get my bearings. I then became hooked and bought the Witch Queen and the Legacy Collection. I was able to play the heck out of the Forsaken campaign before they removed it. Since then, I also played through Shadowkeep and Beyond Light. I'll be starting the Witch Queen soon. I'm so stoked!
The last time I played Destiny 2 - probably over a year ago now - I thoroughly enjoyed the FPS side of it. However, I just got so overwhelmed with all of the game’s different currencies and systems I gave up.
@kyleforrester87 I got bored reading that (not your fault).
Don't like one bit. Hopefully that hero shooter they're making is another scenario because I'm not buying any Sony GaaS if they're like that.
@kyleforrester87 yeah I seem to be in no rush. Maybe Sony will work on making it more approachable in the future.
@frankmcma I think the problem was they just didn’t plan where they were going very well from the get go. They had problems adding content with the engine from very early on.
I used to love the Destiny franchise. When it was released it had probably the tightest shooting mechanics there are, fun and challenging loot missions, and some awesome gun designs.
Then they slowly removed expansions. You can no longer travel to certain planets and moons, all armour gradually looked the same, and everyone was using similar firearms. Bungie took away our gameplay freedom and ripped us off by removing content we paid for.
And when will it return from the vault? Who knows. Maybe in 5 years time when the re-release the game as an anniversary edition and charge another $50. They had the chance to make something bigger with plenty of locations, customisation and characters but stuffed it up IMO.
New content looks amazing but Bungie can go f**k themselves. I paid well over £100+ for the game and multiple DLC, none of which I can even play anymore. Never giving these con artists another penny.
@Would_you_kindly While it may not bother most gamer. But for a game like Destiny where the entire point is to grind content over, and over, and over. Removing content means less variety of content.
@Would_you_kindly That's why Im not buying Shadowkeep.
@Shigurui I feel the same. Bought the $100 Destiny 2 Digital Deluxe Edition day 1. Can't play any of that content anymore.
And before anyone ask. Bungie gave no warning about them vault content. Early supporters was slap in the face with this out of no where.
@Nepp67 I've not played it since the first game I enjoyed the demo so I bought the game then not long after they made it free 😑
I still need to avenge Cayde-6 😅
Real question where the heck do I even begin?
I remember playing the first Destiny and really enjoying it then along came this game, I played it for a while....then everything went all over the place. There was this expansion that expansion I couldn't keep up in the end so I knew it was my Destiny to not play Destiny anymore (sorry). I mean if you enjoy this no worries there is something about it but to me a game that feels like it's going everywhere but nowhere (if that makes sense) just isn't for me anymore.
Also it's absolutely insane people can no longer play Content they paid for. Is that even legal? I mean I know it's a Live Service game that's evolving constantly but still.
Having a great time with it. It amazes me how far the game has come since a terrible first year. It was nearly franchise kill worthy how bad it was but this is now the best content Bungie has ever created. I'm personally very excited that Sony acquired them.
I don't expect people who mostly play single player games or that haven't kept up to appreciate what Bungie has accomplished but it's a big deal if you know. But I've been there since day one game one and I'd rather play a multiplayer focused game anyway.
@lolwhatno
You can access a few areas filled with activities and the New Light campaign. It's certainly worth trying out.
Can grinding really be considered a negative with this game considering thats the point?
'That's not to say new people can't play – of course they can – but like hell are they going to understand what's going on, especially with the earliest campaign content entirely removed with no indication it's ever going to come back.'
This is the problem I have with Destiny 2 for two years already. It's nothing BUT a grind fest for new players, facing you up to waaaaay too high level enemies.
Only finding the right mission - or something you can actually get into - from the planet select screen is a drag already.
@get2sammyb
1.5 million daily players tells you all you need to know. There are precious few games in this category that can sustain that level of player engagement.
Whilst I'm sympathetic to your suggestions of overall complexity and difficulty for new players, its clearly not a detriment to the huge numbers of people who play this game, and when you look at 343 and Halo, or EA and battlefield, you can see sustaining this level of engagement in not easy, and fans that don't get what they want walk.
Not that many walk away from Destiny 2, so despite no personnel knowledge of this game, I'd suggest its clear they are doing something very right.
@kyleforrester87 yeah the vaulted stuff was old and I was sick of the 5 min load times. Screw the haters, if they want to go do heroic events week after week on a dead planet then find another game. All they do is bring down the quality of the players game. Find it funny that they don’t play, have no reference to the content instead of enjoying another game and commenting on that. They get hung up on Destiny like an old girlfriend and just like an old girlfriend, Destiny doesn’t give you a second thought as it grows. Great expansion, great campaign and void 3.0 is pretty awesome. Can’t wait for the raid.
@Would_you_kindly if you haven’t played since the first game why are you here commenting? You are clearly out of you depth dude. Find something you enjoy, instead of crapping on a game you don’t play, don’t want to play and clearly have some sort of beef that started 8 years ago. Move on dude
@lolwhatno
Yeah, the game is multiplayer still even if you don't pay a dime. You can do everything in the free-to-play zones, which includes the strikes, Destiny's name for dungeons. The zones themselves have campaign missions in them, but are otherwise sandbox areas for you to run around and explore in. The quest givers give many bounties you can claim such as "kill X enemies" or "get 30 shotgun kills" and there are beacons scattered around the map that also provide similar quests to bounties. Of course there are chests littered around the map and in hidden areas called Lost Sectors.
You would not be able to visit the zones that come with separate expansions, which includes their campaigns and strikes. Also, there are several PVP modes available in the free version, too. I would imagine the game requires PS+ because there is no offline more. It truly is an FPS MMORPG.
I have never played Destiny. I've always been tempted, not least that many people who's opinion I respect and often gel with say it's the hands down the best gunplay in the business. The story is meant to be great now too.
However every time I get close to giving it a go I remember it's a live service game based around an addictive loot grind mechanic that is purposefully designed to eat up your time. I'll pass.
@Titntin
Absolutely. No other live service game could delay it's upcoming content and season for SIX months and survive, yet players were fine with it, the game survived and is in the best (not perfect but best) shape ever. Huge player counts still, which says all you need to know about how good the game is and how important Sony acquiring Bungie is.
I can respect that not everyone sees it. It's a time sink just like PoE or Warframe but hey, Bungie has done something both EA and Square Enix fail hard at even with all their money and talent. Now they hopefully help us get some great games maybe in the Killzone or Twisted Metal series.
@RavenWolfe81 yeah that what the haters don’t get, it’s an amazing game at a technical standpoint and just feels great to play. By far my favorite fps for just that reason. Yeah some expansions are not the greatest but the core gameplay is always top notch. I’ll tell you this though, I’m glad I don’t sit on comment boards and crap all over games that I don’t play or isn’t for me. Get a life
@themightyant
I thought the same before. World of Warcraft used to dominate my spare time and, quite often, my thoughts. These games take as much as you give, though. I am a lot more casual in my approach to Destiny 2. I know I won't get the best gear or collect everything and that realization has just freed me to play the game as I want.
As a dedicated Destiny player since the Destiny 1 Alpha with around 4,000 hours played across both iterations I can tell you with confidence that this is still the best FPS out there in terms of shooting mechanics and space magic, with the only let-down being how difficult they make it for new players to get on board.
As for the content vaulting that so many people in this thread who apparently have left the game behind are up in arms about, it's driven purely by technical limitations and by taking this route Bungie continue to deliver an outstanding package season after season.
I'm delighted Sony will be leveraging their expertise. It's going to be a fantastic partnership.
@Marquez people can check out kackas or houndish and listen to my name is byf for lore. It’s really not hard to learn the mechanics or story anymore if you use YouTube
@get2sammyb you say how you don’t want to speak out of turn because it’s second hand reports, not first hand experience but then say the game is a mess. I’ve never, repeat never had any issues with connections or servers and I’ve played regularly since d1 beta. You put the narrative that the game is broke out there because people view you as a credible source on this site. Seems as though you can’t see through the hatred you have for Bungie to even acknowledge the greatness they have achieved in 25 years. Expecially after seeing the trainwreak of halo post Bungie.
I played the heck out of D1 running all my characters through and getting most of the weapons and other content but with D2 am just running through the campaign once each expansion and am done. I got to where I just wanna try more games vs being fully immersed in a few.
@TheCollector316 “These games take as much as you give” You’re right and the onus is mostly on players to control their own usage.
But at the same time It’s a complicated and nuanced topic. All games are designed to have an engaging loop to keep you playing, that’s the essence of a “good” game.
I think there needs to be some responsibility on the part of the developers here too. Far too many games nowadays are purposefully designed around the human psyche to eat up either time or money. Not everyone will fall afoul of temptation but enough will to make it worthwhile. Look at the rampant success of F2P, Gacha, etc and the deliberate hunting of whales. Honestly I think this side of the industry needs at least transparency at worst some regulation.
It’s why I always just noped out of things like Warcraft. I saw friends literally become a slave to it and make poor life choices and I know I’d likely be in the same boat so just steered well clear. Same goes for Destiny. I have no doubt it’s a brilliant game and the best gunplay out there, I just don’t trust my own impulsiveness and control in games designed like that to eat up time. That’s on me.
P.S. FYI instead I picked up Genshin Impact to just “give it a go”… 2500+ hours later. Damn.
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