Topic: Gaming Laptop

@BAMozzy - i've been looking at laptops on and off for the last few months, and anything with the RTX20XX is usually the mid to upper end of the £1000-£2000 price range. there's the GTX16XX range as well, the 1660Ti offers about 50% performance improvement compared with the 1060. if @clvr wants to consider how games might look/perform 3-4 years from now, then a GTX 1070/1660 Ti or RTX 2060 would give more contingency for 1080/60fps at very high settings. i'd say the GTX 1060 is probably the minimum right now, as, based on my experience with the GTX 960, i think the 1050 would struggle on some games to get close to 60fps on very settings.. in fact, the 2Gb RAM basic card really struggles in games with high memory demand, in battlefield 1 it doesn't even reach 20 fps - the 4gb card improves things to about 55fps. according to the digital foundry benchmark article on the GTX1050, depending on the game and the settings/AA available, there is a lot of variation, so for example rise of the tomb raider gets pretty close to 60 fps, but the witcher 3 which is an older game gets in the mid-30s. the 1050 would probably be more realistic for gaming laptops in the 600-800 range, if i'm honest, though occassionally a really good refurb with a higher GPU does show up at around that price. Dell recently had a 'black friday in summer' sale, and their non-alienware gaming laptops were still around £1k for i7/GTX1060.

i'm the same, i prefer to use a console for games. i used to game only on PC before buying a PS3, but i found it could be a bit of a chore sometimes to get games to work - constantly updating drivers, etc., which then caused instabilities with other games/programs. i get enough IT-related nonsense at work without dealing with it at home. plus, i don't particularly like the all digital nature of PC-gaming. if i'm going to spend £40 on a game, i want something i can see in my hand, not something a 3rd party can take from me because its no-longer financial viable for them to make it available.

as for Win10 - i'm forced to use it at work (though we do run various unix/linux VMs in virtualbox for running computational codes). i just find it has many of the frustrations and annoyances of previous version of windows, amplified, and a whole pile of new ones, coupled with a UI that looks like garbage. it's as if they took their crappy windows mobile UI (that pretty much nobody liked) and turned it into a desktop. and they don't provide an option for the 'classic look'. it seems to have instability creep as well.. if it thinks its 'uptime' is too long, it reminds you that it needs a restart to "keep it stable". i've never seen a desktop o/s so needy for updates/restarts (of course not being able to update anything without doing a full reboot (sometimes more than one) has been a problem in windows since the beginning). that's before we even get onto all the telemetry spying it does.. i'm part of a pretty small group of about 15 at work, but none of us use windows 10 at home. people either haven't upgraded (and don't want to) from windows 7/8, or (typically the real apple-philes) use a MacPro. a couple of people are just happy using an android tablet, and don't have a PC or laptop.

@leucocyte To be honest, I haven't really checked the prices and certainly don't know if the prices are 'higher' here with Brexit, being an Island and the weak £. II do try to keep up with specs and what's happening in the world of computer hardware even if I have no interest in purchasing for gaming.

Like you, I much prefer a physical copy of the game for a whole list of reasons. I gave up PC gaming around the mid/late 90's and towards the end of that, I wasn't really gaming at home on a computer - it was just work lunchbreaks when a few of us would play Starcraft. At home, it was N64 and Playstation - and since then, its been at least 'double' console gaming - XB & PS2, XB360, PS3 & Wii, XB1 & PS4 and I expect NextBox & PS5 for the next gen of gaming. I spent the 80's and start of the 90's gaming on computers - sometimes with a Joystick but was never 'comfortable' using just the keyboard.

I have Windows 10 on my Laptop but it does have the same basic look as Windows 8 for me. The windows start menu does have tiles as well as the A-Z menu of programmes installed - but that's the only area that has anything particularly Windows 10. I never go to Windows Start menu anyway because all the programmes I want are pinned to the taskbar - just like they were on previous Windows OS. I also don't get that many Updates that require me to restart to install that update. The last one was a few weeks ago but the one before that must be 3 months or more. I have to restart my Laptop just as often (if not more) for my anti-virus software to update its database. In truth, I only use it for the internet access via browsers and for my emails. I never use it for anything else. I guess some things, like youtube could be done on my TV or via an app instead of the browser but unless its 4k HDR, I see no point in using my TV and its more convenient to have youtube open in a tab.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic. @clvr may well be better off looking at some refurbished/open box Laptop then if the prices haven't dropped to €800 or lower but I think we both agree that an i7 GTX1060 Laptop is the very minimum spec to look for, 1070 would be better if they can push the budget up a bit. Some laptops are not very easy to upgrade parts, put a better CPU or GPU in when the current one isn't good enough anymore but that's the trade off for having a complete (as they come with Keyboard, trackpad and screen - even a battery too) and portable system in one package

@BAMozzy @leucocyte thank you both a lot for your time!
Before posting my question in here I didn’t know squat about all of this (and still don’t, lol), but now I know some components’ names that might do it for me!

As for the price, I’m Italian (so yeah, European) and I gave a pretty rough estimate of what I thought might net me a “base-level” gaming laptop, but as it turns out, my limited knowledge led me to underestimate the amount I’ll have to fork over lol 😅
By the way I think I can push a bit and spend 1k, if it’s worth it! That’s why I asked about future-proofing: I know PC gaming is “unstable” compared to consoles because of all the upgrading and such, but I like the fact I can avoid that with a laptop, even if it means not being up-to-date (which is something I’ve never cared about): so yeah, as long as it doesn’t die on me for 7-8 or so years and I can consistently play games on it (even if not 2025 games, or games with ultra high settings), it’s going to be fine!
Thank you a lot, you’ve been super helpful 😄

@clvr I don't want to put you off but if you are expecting a Laptop to be a valid gaming device for 7-8yrs (or more) you maybe expecting far too much. 4-5yrs is what I would expect a laptop to last maybe a bit less with constant use. If you can't upgrade parts, it will be worse.

The GTX700 series released in 2013 - the same year as the PS4/XB1 and you would struggle to get decent performance with modern games - especially at 1080/60. The GTX900 series released in 2015 and that is at the 1080/60 with some compromises to graphic settings to try and keep at 60fps - more so on Laptops. Don't forget that the Laptop versions of any GPU is not as powerful and cannot be overclocked as much as a Desktop version. Being a Laptop, it has to fit in a very small chassis with tiny fans for cooling and much lower power draw. A desktop has a much bigger case to fit a GPU card in with its own fan(s) as well as a separate Fan for the CPU too. They can have a bigger PSU that can draw much more power to run all the fans - let alone everything on the board. It also has a separate power supply for the monitor so its not having to also run the screen like a Laptop does.

The GTX10XX launched in 2016, 3yrs after the 7XX series which and if you are jumping in to 3yr old GPU's, without upgrading (of possible), you won't get 7yrs out of it - meaning the GPU tech is 10yrs old by that point. Just look at how many new games run well on a GTX7XX series (let alone the Laptop versions) that is only 6yrs old and you are looking at buying a 3yr old GPU. I would expect 3-4yrs max (meaning the GPU tech is around 6-7yrs). This is considering the 'max' possible but does reduce with the versions - the lower the 'XX' (80, 70, 60, 50) in the GTX10'XX', the more likely it will need to be replaced sooner.

The only way a Laptop can possibly last 7-8yrs as a gaming device is if you plan on upgrading (if possible) various parts as needed. I would expect a GTX10XX to last anywhere between 3-5yrs depending on whether you have a 1050, 1060, 1070.. Even a 1050 now is probably not going to give you 1080/60 in every game - not without turning down a lot of the graphical settings to try and push the frame-rate up. With Devs likely to be making games with 'next' gen consoles in mind, with PS5/XB2 as the 'lowest' spec, you may find the GTX10XX series becomes obsolete much quicker.

As I said, I don't want to put you off but I do think you need to know what to expect. There is no way that a Laptop GTX1060 will still be playing the latest games at 1080/60 in 7-8yrs. Whilst you maybe buying it in 2019/20, its tech is still 3-4yrs old and not as powerful as the Desktop version so I would expect another 3-4yrs at most as I doubt your budget will stretch to a GTX1080 Laptop which may give you a bit longer. Just look at what a GTX780 Laptop is capable of and that is only 6yrs old tech now. Even the GTX970 isn't likely to give you 1080/60 on a laptop without having to dial back the visuals quite some way - that's 4yr old tech. Unless you can upgrade, I would be surprised if a GTX1070 laptop, something that is above the budget, would still be running the latest games at 1080/60 in 4-5yrs, let alone 7-8yrs. I have never had a Laptop last more than 4-5yrs without something killing it and that's without gaming....

@BAMozzy oh ok, so that goes to show just how little I know and how my expectations are pretty incorrect 😅
So would you advise spending a bit more now for a GTX1070 and be ok for a few years? Ad I said I don’t need to run games at the highest settings possible, and I’d be ok with sub-1080p resolutions for future games, if it’s a way of playing them on older hardware.
Let’s say my benchmark here is Cyberpunk 2077, in that is going to be a game I’m very hyped for and a very demanding game in both fidelity and scope: maybe I’m simplifying too much, but if I were to run that on a laptop, I think I wouldn’t have issues running current-gen games, right? Of course it’s not out yet, but from the looks of it it seems one of the most demanding games this gen.

@clvr If your Benchmark is Cyberpunk, then you should be able to run that on a Laptop with a GTX1060 let alone a 1070. The game is also going to be running on PS4 and XB1 - probably scaled back in numerous areas and of course, limited to 30fps to give that GPU twice the time to draw a frame. Its that last point that may be key here - the current consoles have twice as long to draw a frame than a GPU with a game running at 60fps. That's the key point here - running at 60fps requires at least twice the power than running at 30fps.

I don't think Cyberpunk is 'as demanding' as people think. The Witcher 3 had much greater viewing distance with much more objects - trees, bushes, towns etc stretching off for 'miles' in some areas. That's quite a stress on an engine. Novigrad is heavily populated as was some areas in the stunning Blood and Wine DLC too with much more complex building shapes. Most of the buildings in this seem like straight blocks meaning low polygon count which then allows for more polygons else where, people for example. I haven't seen anything as complex as trees, bushes etc - other than people of course. I am talking about the complexity of the 'image' which would impact the GPU. I would consider trying to find how a GTX1060 or 1070 Laptop handles something like the Witcher and see what, if any, concessions are needed to run at 60fps. That may give you a baseline on what to expect from a Laptop with these specs.

PC's aren't quite as efficient as consoles when it comes to running games. They have more processes running in the background and are like the American Muscle car compared to consoles which are more like the Japanese highly tuned with smaller engine cars. Laptops are less powerful than their 'equivalent' desktop machines.

My concern would be more the games that are developed solely for PS5/XB2 consoles. I do expect them to target 4k though which may not be too demanding for a Laptop looking to run those games at 1080p but things like Ray Tracing could become the norm as both next gen consoles are supporting it. We don;t really have to much info to go on either yet so its not so easy to see whether or not a Laptop with basically a 3yr old scaled down for laptop GPU will still be running the 'new' games at a reasonable level in another 2-3yrs. Then there is the cost too - Its going to cost a lot of money for something that is more a portable PS4 Pro (with a better CPU) so you have to decide whether its worth the investment to you.

I can't make that decision for you, its your money and you that will be living with the decision. My advice right now though is to start doing research. Try and find out what the performance is like on laptops running the GTX1060/70 GPU's, see how they handle games like the Witcher 3 riding into Novigrad and that may help you see how these Laptops may run Cyberpunk. Then you can decide whether or not you think its worth purchasing for you and what you want/need.

@BAMozzy thank you again, as you suggested I think I’ll start researching how 1070 laptops run current-gen games while I wait for Black Friday to hit; with 3 months left, I have all the time I need to make this decision and not regret it (hopefully 😅)!
I was thinking of simply buying a PS4 Pro, but the fact I’m constantly moving and I don’t usually have an available TV means it’s gonna be hard to game on that; also, a laptop would be useful for a lot of other things, so maybe that’s the right call.

Edit: I see you advise buying a PC with an Intel GTX1070 GPU, do you think it’s better than an NVidia one? Cause I’ve seen some good machines with that. If an NVidia one is worth it, what model would you recommend that is more or less on par withthe 1070 you recommended?
Also, sorry if I get stuff mixed up, such as graphics cards and GPU’s 😅

@clvr At the end of the day, you have to buy the system that best suits your needs and circumstances. If it means that a Laptop is the best option for you, then whether other options may have something better is irrelevant - like a desktop PC with better 'bang for buck' on its spec but obviously doesn't offer portability or buying a PS4 Pro but again doesn't offer the portability or additional functions that a Laptop does.

As far as the 'intel' GTX1070 that's my error as I meant to write nVidia and also thinking about pairing that GPU with 'intel' CPU's. Its no secret that both of these are at the top when it comes to performance where as AMD offer great bang for buck performance. I still recommend going for the highest spec GPU (GTX1070 if you can stretch that far) and CPU (Intel i7 min) that your budget can afford. I doubt that your budget will stretch to the GTX20XX Laptops but don't go looking for anything that costs but doesn't make a big difference to its primary function or over-spec. In other words, don't go for anything above 1080p or with a touchscreen because those will add to the cost but not be beneficial to gaming - if anything, these will reduce the gaming specs others offer to be in the same price point.

@BAMozzy Sorry for being so late, I forgot to reply the other day 😅
No worries about the mixup, I didn’t know the first thing about them before talking with you 😃

On topic though yes, you got my needs perfectly right: 1080p, possibly 60 FPS (but I can settle for less as long as it’s stable), no touchscreen or other bells and whistles.
I’ll probably have to fork out a bit more than estimated but it’s going to be totally worth it 😃
Also, should I for some reason not like it as a gaming system, well, I’ll still have a brand new laptop to use for a lot of other things lol 😄

Thank you mate, it was a pleasure talking with you!
I learnt a lot and I hope I won’t have to bother you again, now that I know my target specs lol 😉
Have a good night 😄

@clvr No probs - as long as you have found this to be helpful, that's all that matters. I am sure we are all more than happy to help if we can - its a great community!

Good luck with your search and hope you find something that is perfect for you and your budget

@BAMozzy thank you again, you’re a very nice person! Also yes, PS is indeed a great community 😄

@clvr Do you already know about the weekly free games on the Epic Store? It will quickly build you a library of good games. The two on the way are Hyper Light Drifter and Mutant Year Zero.

@andreoni79 nope, I didn’t!
I’ll make sure to check them out when I buy my laptop!
Grazie mille 😉

You only have one week to redeem them for free. I suggest you to create now your account, since you can do it on your phone too, and weekly connect to the store to "buy" these free games. Then you'll be able to donwload them whenever you want once you'll have your pc.
(Prego! 😂)

@andreoni79 wow, it’s really cool that I can register now and redeem them later! I didn’t know that either!
Thanks again 👌🏻

@BAMozzy hey my friend, may I bother you for one last time? 😅
I just wanted your thoughts on a couple of laptops I put my eyes on, if it you don't mind.

1) Acer Nitro 7
Intel® Core™ I7-9750H (2,6 GHz - 12 MB L2)
SSD: 512 GB
RAM: 16 GB
Display: 15,6'' LCD Full HD
WiFi IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Bluetooth 5.0
Windows 10 Home
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650, dedicated 4 GB
Price: €1164

2) HP PAVILION GAMING 15-DK0009NL
Intel® Core™ I7-9750H (2,6 GHz - 12 MB L3)
HDD: 1000 GB
SSD: 256 GB
RAM: 16 GB
Display: 15,6'' WLED Full HD
WiFi IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac
Bluetooth 4.2
Windows 10 Home 64
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650, dedicated 4 GB
Price: €949

3) ASUS FX505DT-BQ138T
AMD Ryzen 5-3550H (2,1 GHz - 4 MB L3)
SSD: 512 GB
RAM: 8 GB
Display: 15,6'' LED Full HD
WiFi IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac
Bluetooth 5.0
Windows 10 Home (64bit)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650, dedicated 4 GB
Price: €799

Edit: prices

@clvr I am sure there are people here with a more experience and knowledge on PC based hardware/gaming than I am. Both look well specced to deliver 1080p gaming - which is the max resolution you really need with a full HD screen. Of course you can go higher and super-sample down but that really isn't necessary.

The big difference in price looks to be mostly (if not entirely) down to the SSD storage but there is some difference in the screen (or maybe just the way the companies have opted to list them). SSD is expensive so you are losing half the capacity but it does have advantages in both noise, durability and access speed - no moving parts mean no noise or no wear. You can always add an external Storage option if you want/need more.

I am still not convinced that Laptop gaming is worth getting into right now with Streaming options - not that a Laptop can't provide that too of course. Its just a bit more bulky and more awkward. With phones, you can get a holder to fix onto the controller so you don't need a surface to put a 'screen' on but you are limited to areas that wifi can reach. At least with a Laptop, you can play locally too.

Laptops are generally a lot more difficult to keep upgrading if/when you need more from it too from a gaming perspective but for all other aspects - unless you are a graphic designer or something like that, needing a lot of power to handle editing and processing, you should be OK for all other activities.

I don't really know what else to say. The key elements related to gaming - ie CPU, GPU, RAM - seem identical. The SSD may help with loading times, save a few seconds here and there (as well as the other advantages) but does limit your storage capacity which will fill up quickly with games, photo's, music and software (Not just games but all the PC software you may want/need - like Maintenance, Anti-Virus/Malware etc) but like I said, you can always plug in external storage too for Photo's, Documents, Music etc if you need. Gaming otherwise should be very similar between the two as they have the same components...

EDIT: Just seen you have added a third - You won't get the same performance from that Ryzen CPU and its not exactly as fast either being clocked at just 2.1ghz - that's the same speed as the PS4 Pro's CPU although this is a much better CPU than that Jaguar but the Intel ones at 2.6ghz are running nearly 25% faster as well as being a better CPU overall too...

@BAMozzy thank you a lot mate, and sorry to bother you again!
Yeah I added a third one just to see if it was worth it but I figured it wouldn't be, it's just the price is pretty tempting lol
I guess I'll stick with one of the other two, probably the 949 one as they seem pretty similar to each other.
Thanks again!

@clvr The 949 one looks the best deal as you do get some SSD storage but looking at the third, you you get 50% less RAM and a worse CPU. the €150 difference is worth it to me but I don't necessarily think the €215 difference between the first and second is worth it - especially as all the 'important' parts are the same spec. You do have a 256 SSD storage with the second - half the size of the first but you can keep some games on that and have some on the HDD (I assume). Some are clever where they move your most used programmes to the SSD but you may not have the choice to store on that. In any case, it does look the best deal of the 3. With Black Friday coming up, you may find some better deals too but of the 3, the 2nd to me looks the best. Again though, there are others here who maybe able to tell you if that's the best deal for the money as I am not sure what you can get these days for ~€1k...

@BAMozzy thank you, you confirmed my thoughts. I'll probably pull the trigger on the second one! If and when I do I'll make sure to let you know 😁