After the lenghty, explosive opening of HBO's The Last of Us, the second episode picks up where the TV adaptation left off as Joel and Tess begin their trip across the USA to deliver Ellie to the Fireflies. While the second entry of nine wasn't nearly as long, it still had a lot going on. We're certain many of you tuned in to catch the episode as soon as it was aired so place a vote in our poll and expand on your impressions in the comments below.
How do you feel about the television series so far? Do you think it's staying just as faithful as the first episode, and then expanding on its story in all the right ways with new scenes and characters? We want to hear it all. Drop down into our comments section below and have your say.
Comments 78
Thoroughly enjoyed it!
Absolutely nailing it.
Family and I are hooked, we all watched it and really, really enjoyed it.
I'll do my best to give it my thoughts on the pros and cons:
Pros:
Amazingly life like graphics.
High production values.
Great story and cutscenes.
Cons:
Little to no gameplay.
Cut scenes go too long.
Episodic content makes the wait unbearable.
😁
It was great! They really nailed the clickers! This episode was really creepy. If i had one gripe it would be maybe that it's a little too faithful to the source material. Having played the game multiple times i already know what's coming in practically every scene.
Also i hope Joel and Ellie will start getting into a bit more action and less sneaking and walking next episode. Throw a grenade or a molotov cocktail or something and burn those ugly things! Joel needs to use a shiv once in a while or pick some locks. I hope we see him upgrading his weapons too.
It would be cool if we see Ellie finding some savage starlight comics along the way or taking a joke break once every so often.
It‘s okay so far, but I feel the same way I do about most videogame adaptations. I don’t think it’s needed, especially when The Last of Us games are as cinematic as they are.
I love how they're pushing that Ellie actually IS the cure and how miraculous that is. Nowhere for Joel lovers to run this time.
I liked this episode too. I'm still getting used to some of the substantial lore changes, but they're riding that line between staying faithful and adding their stuff pretty well. They NAILED the Clickers. The make-up and prosthetics looked incredible.
I love how I can talk to non gamer friends and family members now about one of my favorite stories ever told. This show is phenomenal.
Another great episode. Those clicker encounters were every bit as epic as I could have asked for in live action and the ruined city look was phenomenal. You can see where all the money went.
@Loftimus I don't agree. The moral ambiguity of the ending of the game is what made it so memorable and compelling - for me, anyway.
@Bentleyma not everyone games. In fact most don’t!!
Didn't stand out as much as the first episode. I don't know if it's because I already played the game to death, but there was a chance to flesh out Tess' character a bit more. I felt she got less screen time than in the game. Neither death hit me as hard as they did in the game.
And they could have done with fewer F-bombs. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the best moments came when Ellie was talking less. I frame froze the 2nd clicker, and the makeup was hilarious. She had nicely done hair for a clicker lol. The makeup looked plasticky and fake. It's a clicker, there doesn't need to be a symmetry in the pattern lol. In-game models look grotesquely scary in comparison, especially the remake. Makes me appreciate ND visual designers even more.
I'm being overly critical here. Overall a good episode with no new stuff outside the game, but high hopes for the next one. Nick Offerman is a helluva actor and from the teaser, looks like Bill is gonna get some deserved in-depth backstory.
Really enjoyed it. Feel like they are doing a impressive job so far. Let’s see if it last.
@Bentleyma it’s fair enough to think like that. But you also need to remember not everybody can or want to play video games. The show is aimed at a new audience.
@Loftimus I don't think that's what's going on at all, especially with the beginning scenes stating there is NO medicine or cure for cordycepts.
That Indonesian doctor dedicated her whole life to the study of that organism during a period of medical science that is as far removed from the apocalypse as it gets. A group of doctors in a guerrilla style ramshackle lab finding the cure for something, that isn't curable, will really stretch the believability of the narrative.
Especially when we are being told there is no cure every episode so far. In fact...I'd say this is the show's way of showing and telling us to not focus on the cure.
Because there is none.
I thought this was another excellent episode. Some narrative changes are actually pretty drastic, yet they haven’t lost the plot at all…it really is an impressive adaptation thus far.
I actually loved everything but the changed Tess' death. I believe the original gave her more agency and "badassness" to her death rather than this one. Didn't like that gross Tess kiss thingy, I think the grossness just detracts from what should have been her badass sacrifice. In fact, up until this point in the show, we have not seen any badass scene or coldness scene from Tess to establish she is a hardened no-nonsense woman.
I think the scene wants to focus more on the infection/fungus rather than giving that last bit of characterization to Tess. So the scene essentially becomes more about “look how gross we can get with the show” rather than “damn, she was a pretty cool character”. I see more discussion about the grossness and fungus and it just happens that Tess was a victim of it, highlight on victim as opposed to the game’s emphasize on tragic/heroic sacrifice.
In the game, we had Robert's scene, where she was like "ok bye" and just sraight up shot him dead, but since this scene was deleted in the show, then we haven't really established Tess as some sort of ani-heroe/badass woman. I mean, the firs scene we see her, she is actually being beaten up for info (ironically, switching places with Robert from the video game). So, her only chance to prove she is some sort of badass heroine is going out with some badass sacrifice. Not a scene, where the directors want to emphasize more on what the fungus can do/new rules, rather than establish Tess as a character. Not only that, but I think it kind of makes no sense now for her death (aside that she is kind of fckd now from the bite), because when we see Joel and Ellie outside, she hasn't really done anything to stop the horde, besides just standing there in horror. When the lighter does work, that's when they are outside and with quite the running advantage to hide.
I did like that she bonds more with Ellie with this one than the other one.
Oof that was long sorry guys lol
@shuvamg009
Felt the same way with Ellie, I think they are leaning a bit too much on her cursing. Her abrasion sometimes feels unnecessary like when she was talking to Joel or rather Joel was trying to have small talk. Yeah, in the game she did curse and had character but never did I feel she was being mean to Joel even when they first met.
@Constable_What thats what makes Ellie so miraculous. They are saying there is no cure, yet here she is. Humanity's only chance
Too bad it releases at such a ridiculous time. I'll watch it tonight
@Loftimus
That was the point of the first game as well though...
"Nowhere for Joel lovers to run this time"
It's bad to like a character? What a weird statement. What he did at the end of TLOU1 was reasonable for someone in his shoes
@LN78 Joels reasoning was never open to interpretation. He did it because he didn't want to mourne another daughter (the rest of the world and Ellies wishes be damned).
@Loftimus Being immune to fungal infections doesn't mean you can synthesize a cure from that immunity. It is miraculous that Ellie is immune yes, but the main reason that fungal infections are impossible to cure is because the cells of fungi are too similar to animal cells, and you cannot develop a vaccine that JUST targets the fungi cells and not the cells of the host organism.
Ellie is "hope" for humanity, and that's what makes the atmosphere of the show so oppressing. Even if Joel let Ellie be directed and her immunity synthesized into a prototype vaccine, you just get a vaccine that might kill the fungi, but might also kill the host.
The real hope in TLOU was never about the cure. It was about picking your life up from its lowest point and making something worth waking up for. It's about giving up the resentment and trauma of the past, and living for something in the now. That's the whole entire point of TLOU2 as well... In my opinion at least!
@Loftimus I'm not talking about his motivations - I'm talking about whether what he did (in the game version at least) was morally justifiable. That is certainly open to interpretation and debate - it explains why a) there are so many "Joel lovers" and b) people were so upset that "Part 2" clumsily attempted to remove any of the uncertainty.
@LN78 I disagree about Part 2 painting Joel's actions as evil. For all the flaws Part 2 has, and there are a lot, I think it nailed Joel's convictions and didn't paint him as anything other than a man that loved his adopted daughter more than anything else.
Even when Jerry was asked if he could do to Abby what he was about to do to Ellie he didn't answer it. It's because he wasn't in that position that he was able to justify basically killing another man's daughter for the sake of a vaccine that would almost certainly NOT WORK. If anything TLOU Part 2 sticks to the uncertainty around the cure, and Joel's actions at the end of the first game, and at the end of the game, Joel said he'd do it again. Because he's a gigachad.
Jerry doesn't get enough flak though. He's actually a big fat ***hole in my eyes, and the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree either.
@Loftimus I preferred that there were more questions there though. One of the great things about the first game is that none of it was too far-fetched.
The second game completely threw that out of the window for me and many others and changing the ending to be so certain felt and still feels strange
@BoldAndBrash joel defenders then. Is that better?
@Constable_What Evil was too strong a word. It's early and I couldn't think of a better one! I've edited accordingly.
@LN78 Noted! Lol
And yeah if TLOU2 did try to remove the uncertainty, or if that was the goal, I would agree that it's clumsy and that it didn't reach that goal.
I could see that perspective when playing through the game as Abby... Her and her crew are so unlikable for the most part that if the intended effect was to make me empathize with them, it had the reverse affect and just reaffirmed my stance that Joel's actions were reasonable, relatable, and can justified.
It was satisfying (aside from Owen, he wanted to leave from the start) seeing them all get destroyed.
@LN78 what he did was inexcusably evil and selfish. The only person that outcome would benifit was him. It was a massacre. Plain and simple.
@Constable_What I think the zebra scene was the dictionary definition of "clumsy" in that regard. How dare Joel so callously murder such a saintly paragon of virtue? 🤣.
@Constable_What if there is no cure then, there is no decision to make. You save Ellie. I don't think that is what they were going for mate
@Loftimus So by stating your position (one I disagree with, by the way) you've conclusively demonstrated that there is in fact ambiguity and debate regarding the ending. Thanks!
@Loftimus "the only person that outcome would benefit was him" and Ellie, of course. But one of the reasons we never got to have that conversation with her was because the fireflies were so brutal in stealing her away from Joel (in the game at least)
@Loftimus The decision is still there, because no one knows in the story that it is impossible, and except for people that know a little about biology and fungal infections no one that is playing the game will have that knowledge. That's one of the tragedies of the story and of apocalyptic settings in general. Ignorance and desperation. The characters think there's a choice, and that's what really matters, that's what immerses players in the story. And even then...what the creators' are going for isn't the end all be all, Death of the Author, as a literary study, has been around for over a hundred years. Everything is up to interpretation due to a difference in perspective, and even Neil Druckmann himself recognizes that. If he didn't he wouldn't bother to play the games himself to have that perspective as a player as well as a creator, and he'd just say the point of it all is.
In the TV show the audience now knows that it's impossible to create a cure from the get go. Does Ellie being immune change that? We will have to wait and see if she does or not, but I'd wager not. It just wouldn't make any sense.
EDIT: clarification: I don't think your perspective is invalid. It's honest, and that's really all it needs to be. I just disagree, and that's fine, it's part of the enjoyment of discussing art.
@LN78 Copium take, but I chalk that up to Abby remembering the good parts of her dad, rather than Jerry being a saint. Of course that falls flat when in the same sequence he won't answer whether or not he'd sacrifice Abby, and it doesn't look like he would either...so...he at least knew what might happen out of all this.
But yeah, TLOU2 is very messy with the story it's trying to tell, and I think...I think it's by design. I think the main intention behind the story was for it have many different perspectives and for it to be talked about to make sense of it.
And I mean, it's still regularly talked about years after release love it or hate it.
@roe the only thing Marlene did wrong was throw him out without payment. Joel letting his feeling get in the way is on Joel and nobody else.
@Constable_What I don't think it was intentionally messy at all. I would say that the relentlessly botched pacing of the narrative puts paid to that argument. I don't think there's much complexity to it either - it's a just a dull (in all senses of the word) story, badly told. In my opinion. And not to be rude (you're clearly a thoughtful and intelligent person) this just isn't a debate I'm interested in having again. Have a great day! 😉.
@LN78 only when you add conjecture. All artifacts and recordings pointed to one specific conclusion. Which is the conclusion the writers of the story want you to believe. Anything else is you trying to change the story.
@LN78 That's an honest perspective to have, and at the end of the day, that's really what matters. I didn't really see any kind of debate going on between us more of a discussion, but if you don't feel up to that that's understandable!
Have a good one! 😀
@Loftimus Look - if I disagree with you (and I do) it means that there is ambiguity. The fact that we're engaged in this discourse means there is debate. You're being obtuse. Have a great day!
@LN78 fair enough but it doesn't make it valid
@Loftimus Oh. My opinion isn't valid? 😔.
@LN78 when you've got a story in front of you with clear indications towards one thing, disagreeing with the story doesnt make it ambiguous... It just makes you wrong.
@Loftimus So why, pray tell, has the ending of the first game been the subject of such intense and sustained debate in the 10 or so years since its release? Not to be rude, but by claiming that there is no ambiguity in the ending I would say that you rather missed the point. And that's just sad.
PS There are a few upvotes on my OP at this point. Hmmmm. I wonder why?
@Slippship its on catch up about an hour after airing live.
@Slippship you know you don't have to read this right?
@LN78 but there is the story the writers told (the only side that matters) and then there are the Joel defenders that are ignoring what is there in the game, to make their own narrative, just to justify Joels selfish massacre.
The conversations ive had have been mostly "would you do it, if it was you?" He was never in the right.
@LN78 because Joel defenders have herd mentality?
@Slippship Then don't click on the article before you've watched it. There are no spoilers in the headline. There are no spoilers in the lead image. There are no spoilers in the body of text. Hell, these polls are pre-written before the episode even airs. I haven't even watched it yet!
The majority of our audience is based in the USA, and we must cater to that. This is simply a poll asking for people's general thoughts.
@Loftimus Those conversations that you've had illustrate that what I'm saying here is true - quite apart from the fact that "death of the author" is a recognised literary phenomenon. If the ending were as cut and dried, incontrovertible and unequivocal as you claim then none of those discussions could've existed in the first place. End of.
PS "Herd mentality" would also explain the opposing point of view, wouldn't it?
@LN78 sometimes, you've just got to play a game and believe what your eyes and ears are telling you. They didn't put the research notes and recordings in there to fool or confuse you. They are there to let you know that what Joel is doing is wrong.
@Freek How did they do on the puddles? Did they put in the effort or should I skip this episode?
@Loftimus And the player is (shock horror) free to think for themselves and disagree. Honest question: why do you think you were having those "would you do it, if it was you?" discussions with your mates when the game had told them in no uncertain terms that Joel was a sociopath? Seems to me you've proven your own arguments wrong here, buddy. Just think about it for a moment. Bye!
I'm saving it for catch-up to avoid the ads.
I do hope Ellie has perked up a little though. They need imho to capture a little bit of the "the world isn't entirely *****" - which TLOU had even if they burned that to the ground in TLOU2.
Come on Ellie, you dont have to sulk your way through the entire series.
@HUMPERDOO
The puddles are extremely detailed, worth watching for those alone
@Loftimus did you sleep through the first few minutes of both episodes or something? Where we are told explicitly that "there is no cure"? Or do you just figure those were inserted for no reason?
Even without those scenes, Ellie isn't "a cure", or "a vaccine". She's IMMUNE. Just because she's immune, it doesn't mean she contains some means to make other people immune. So even in the game, just because people say "she's our only hope for a cure", it doesn't mean that there actually IS a chance for a cure, she's just humanity's last desperate effort, which might well have ended in failure.
In the show on the other hand, it's been spelled out in big letters for you at the start of two episodes "THERE CAN BE NO CURE". And these snippets aren't there to inform Joel's decision - he wasn't there in Jakarta and the clip from Ep 1 is from 1968, so it's unlikely Joel was watching since he's in his 30s in 2003 - they're there to inform you, the viewer
@AnnetteM I agree with every word. Tess was always one of my favourite characters in the game. Show Tess could have been better.
@Loftimus it’s been 20 years since the infection ravaged the world’s entire population. Humanity has devolved into murderous bandits and insane cults. What is there left to save even if there was a cure? The world as we knew it is already lost and they will never get it back.
@Slippship really bizarre of you to complain that "you work for a living", when you're the one spending your time complaining that a news site has the audacity to publish articles. I'd have thought you'd be so busy working for a living that you wouldn't even have looked at PushSquare yet, let alone ventured into the comment section!
@Slippship
Don't click the article then? Also you say you work for a living, yet take time out of your day to complain about something as silly as this. Also spoiler: Other people work too. With your logic, nobody could EVER publish any article ever. The world doesn't revolve around you.
@danlk1ng if they are telling us every show that there is no cure, just to make sure we know joel makes the right decision, then all weight from that decision is lost... I can't see people scoring that a 10/10. That sounds like netflix resi plot
@Loftimus did I say that? I don't know why they're very clearly signalling to us "there is no cure" - I'm sure it will become clearer in episodes to follow.
Your initial comment here on the other hand is "I love how they're pushing that Ellie actually IS the cure and how miraculous that is. Nowhere for Joel lovers to run this time."
Forget about the whole argument with regards Joel's actions at the end of the first game. You commentary on the show so far is "they're really pushing that Ellie actually is a cure"
My reaction to that is "are we even watching the same show?". They seem to be pushing much more heavily with the "a cure isn't even possible" angle, than with any evidence that Ellie can definitely cure other people.
I mean maybe they're putting all that in front of us just to make it even more miraculous when it is eventually revealed that they can make a cure by dissecting Ellie, or something. Maybe. But the big reveal hasn't happened yet, and you're kind of acting like it already has
Just watched the 2nd episode , loved it, i think from next episode it kind of starts for me. Even with the game i thought up to that point at end it was a bit slow then kicked in after, obviously the intro and everything was amazing and enjoyed it. Really getting the itch to play the games again now. Be interesting to see if the game hits the top 10 charts again in the next month or so. But so far they are nailing the show.
@danlk1ng yes but a cure is possible in the game. You can't dismiss it because he never got chance to engineer it. Did the specialists forsee an immunity gland? No so how can they say no vaccine could be engineered from said gland?
@Loftimus "Immunity Gland" lol - now you're just making stuff up. Besides anything else, it's highly unlikely that an "Immunity Gland" would be remotely suitable for engineering a vaccine (a one time injection to prevent infection). If Ellie's immunity is due to some new gland she has, then you'd need to either have a gland of your own (something which to my knowledge can't be surgically inserted, but especially in a post apocalyptic context), or you'd need a constant supply of whatever substance it is that Ellie's gland produces, which makes her immune, in order to keep your temporary "immunity" going - and that's if that's even feasible. I don't know if you can just inject stuff from glands to get the gland's effect in all cases, and I'm not about to tell the internet you can, like I know anything about that!
Aside from all this, just because something is possible in game doesn't mean that it's possible in the TV show. The TV show is a completely different story, as is evident in many ways. You don't need to be so invested in stuff from the game, when it comes to the TV show
@danlk1ng right keep moving those goalposts mate. See ya later
@Loftimus curious as to which part you thought was me "moving the goalposts". If you're talking about the part where I pointed out that facts in the game don't necessarily carry over into the show, I'd have thought that that was patently obvious from the start
The production value on this series is nuts. The sets look insanely expensive. I think the characterization is spot on and I'm looking forward to seeing all the new beats added to expand on the beats from the game.
@danlk1ng same principle stands for game and show. The specialists never forsore immunity. So how can they say with certainty there will never be a cure? Again, as for the show, if it is telling us that the trip is hopeless every episode and it turns out to be true, who's buying that bluray?
@Loftimus 'the rest of the world and Ellies wishes be damned' except Ellie was never told she'd be killed so she actually never gave consent to it...
@Loftimus except humans are already immune, normally that is. As in, in the world of TLOU something about cordyceps has changed, so that it can infect humans. It stands to reason therefore, that if humans (or a single human) could also change in just the right way, cordyceps could no longer infect them. The experts wouldn't be much in the way of experts if they didn't recognise adaptation as a thing - just because they didn't say "oh and every one in a billion, someone might be born different in just the right ways, to be immune" doesn't mean they didn't consider it a possibility at all. Ultimately "immunity" isn't the same thing as "a vaccine/cure".
Ellie isn't necessarily Immune because of some property she was born with - maybe the experts did miss something, my point is that "stuff the experts didn't explicitly say so therefore they must have missed it" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in your interpretation of the show so far.
@Slippship what a weird complaint, since it is shown in Britain, it's even on at 2am so you can watch it at the same time as it's released in the US...
Understood! No one else can write or comment about TLOU until @Slippship has watched it, because he has a job unlike the rest of us layabouts... please understand...
Honestly mate you've shot yourself in the foot here. Site is global, airs at 2am in the UK. You, or I, or anyone else doesn't have to click the article until AFTER you have seen it.
Keep it up @LiamCroft loving this series!
@LN78 100% agree on the moral ambiguity of the ending. Yes Joel was absolutely in the wrong by almost any metric, but if it was your child/girl/someone you loved would you do it anyway? Brilliantly debateable forevermore.
Perhaps it was a statistical anomaly but I was always amazed how almost without fail - among my friends and others I debated this with - those who had children saw it from Joel's point of view.
I voted, 'Good'. The museum scene was tense and exciting and the Clickers were very creepy. Great sound design and costumes.
Not a big fan of Ellie yet but there's lots to come.
I've preferred the past-era introductions. The outbreak story is more to my tastes than post-outbreak action scenes. But when the character development builds that might change.
@themightyant Oh for sure. The water is muddied even further beyond Joel's culpability (and Ellie's ability to consent) when you consider extrinsic factors such as the Fireflies' technical and medical capabilities in the post-apocalyptic setting (they sure had Ellie on that operating table mighty quickly instead of subjecting her to a rigorous battery of testing) and what they would actually do with a cure were it to be discovered. How would it be distributed and to whom? Might it even be weaponised by the faction? As you say - infinitely debatable.
It was OK. I played on my phone for half the episode.
@danlk1ng we'll find out in 7 weeks, won't we? We can all agree that Joel is a piece of sh*t and Abby is Number 1... Can't we?
So far this series is a masterpiece that every other adaptation should follow. It is very respectful of its source material and the changes/additions are there to further improve and enhance the experience.
Much improved. Joel continues to be excellent and Ellie got a sense of humour - so much better for her this week. Overall the show is great imho.
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