
Cyberpunk 2077 has a lot of cut content, and since the game's release last month, some fans have been hard at work digging up all kinds of stuff. Loads of scrapped missions, locations, and items are all still buried in the game's code, but it's the cut romance options that have really got people talking.
Prior to launch, CD Projekt Red had said that players could look forward to a range of relationships, from one night stands to full-blown romance. Sadly, the Cyberpunk 2077 that we got features a very limited number of options. There are just two prostitutes to hire in the whole of Night City — both of whom present you with an awkwardly short cinematic — and the game's four main romantic interests are locked to the sex of your main character. Depending on the V that you create at the start of the game and their sexual preference, you're stuck with just one key character to romance per playthrough.
But as with a lot of things in Cyberpunk 2077, there was originally much more to this part of the experience. As noted on Reddit, one relatively simple modification to the game's files can restore cut romantic content on PC. Judy, for example, can only be romanced if V is female in the unedited version of the release, but with a bit of tweaking, it's perfectly possible to hook up with Judy if you're playing a male character. All of the dialogue is still there — it's just unused.
The same is true of other characters, like River. Again, according to fully voiced dialogue still present in the game's files, River was a gay male romance option at some point during development, but for whatever reason, that scenario was cut just like the rest.
Cut content is obviously nothing new when it comes to game development, but it's becoming abundantly clear that Cyberpunk 2077 had to be trimmed down significantly before its release. We're still holding out hope that CD Projekt Red can get this game back on track after an immensely disappointing launch, but it's going to take some time.
[source reddit.com]
Comments (60)
I hope 6 month or 1 year later this game will be a new, better games just like no man sky 😃
Hooray, modders have turned the lesbian character bisexual. I’m not sure we should really be rejoicing about this.
@nessisonett
Wait cyberbug 2077 had a lesbian character? Wheres all the outrage all the deaththreats. Oh thats right most gamers are Hypocrites
@Gaming365247 You weren’t here for the original articles about Cyberpunk’s approach to gender identity in its character creator. There was plenty outrage, believe me.
@nessisonett Doesn't sound like anyone is rejoicing at all.
It's just a thing.
I think the problem is that no matter how much content they try to add or course correct going forward, it’s a case of “too little too late” because I, like many others are already finished the main story. Now were there tons of bugs? Absolutely but it had great storytelling regardless...does this make up for all the glaringly cut content though? Hell no and now that i’m aware each lifepath only affects about 20 min of the intro + a couple dialogue choices (which themselves are not that consequential) it leaves me with little incentive to replay 2 or even 3 times more. Look at the end of the day it should’ve been pushed back & made next-gen only & we would’ve had a better product.
I think more people are realizing this isn’t an RPG in the same vein of Skyrim which I don’t blame gamers for thinking because CDPR itself promised/hyped it up to have more features & freedom than what we got. Truth is it’s more of a linear action-rpg with the ‘guise of choice and having it be “your unique V” when it really isn’t. Now will the next-gen upgrade, Online & DLC bring me back? Sure out of curiosity, but first impressions are critical and unless they throw all these cut things in ASAP like a better wanted system, working trains, mini-games/barbers & so on that aren’t even groundbreaking features in open-world games, i’m sure many will finish the game and move onto the next thing.
@SpicyTacos101 I completely agree. It's why I stopped playing and refunded.
As soon as I read a comment from someone from CD Projekt saying they needed 6 months to get the game where they wanted it, I sighed, deleted it, put in my refund, and returned to Yakuza Like a Dragon.
There are two more sex workers in the penthouse club you go to during the Kerry side arc.
I dated Judy, turned River down (acab), hooked up with Meredith and all four prostitutes. Whilst it would’ve been nice to have more romance options, it wasn’t exactly my biggest concern. I was most gutted about the lack of incentive to replay. Everything can be done in one playthrough, including all endings. The only incentive really is to go with a different build, but for me none of the other potential builds look as fun as the hack/silence pistol one. Great game but I after briefly checking out the ps5 version I probably won’t play again for a few years.
@nessisonett Ok.
This may just be wishful thinking but I feel like the full fat PS5 release is going to be like a new game.
Haven’t played this game since Christmas. Then again I haven’t had a day off since Christmas lol.
I’m debating getting back into it until there’s a full next-gen version, but undoubtedly even that version is bound to have problems.
@nessisonett Not sure anyone cares about that. modders just found cut content.
It's funny how editing a few files can restore a bunch of cut content.
Usually it's a little tougher than that. Maybe CDPR just kinda left loose threads in the coding?
@Deadlyblack They were rushed. They probably couldn't finish it in time like look at the water. There's no splash effects or boats and ships but somehow they put in underwater effects? The hell is up with that?
bit of correction there are 4 joytoys not just two... 2 high end joytoys are avail after kerry mission in certain tower....
After watching a lot of Cyberpunk takedowns on YouTube (like the one from BeatEmUps), I'm starting to wonder if this game has a future at all. Everyone seems to be super disappointed and it's entirety possible that CDPR will just put out a few patches and move on. Not every game is a No Man's Sky situation. There's thousands of games that are badly reviewed, then simply sink & disappear. Given the overwhelming negativity, they may just decide it's not worth it.
"There are just two prostitutes to hire in the whole of Night City — both of whom present you with an awkwardly short cinematic."
The disappointment in this sentence is truly one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. Coupled with all the journalists who saw that behind-the-scenes E3 preview of the game a couple years ago and came away saying that the game would be awesome "because somebody says the C word", my empathy for the failure of such immature nonsense is dwindling.
"3/10 - not enough prostitutes"
@nessisonett
Modders didn't do a thing but restore cut content so I don't get why you are so upset
If it was the other way around like it was with Cassandra in Dragon Age Inquisition would you have the same reaction?
@wiiware It should have released 6 months later. Cut content, bugs, running bad this game would have been much better with some extra time in the oven.
Whenever I read "romance option" and "video game" I just roll my eyes. It's not romance what we experience in video games, but rather nothing more than the elusion that your main character is having sex with someone.
Romance is about love and feelings. I have a really hard time even naming three video games that had that. Certainly Mass Effect or Dragon Age, often praised for being able to shag anyone, certainly were void of love. I guess The Witcher 3 had a bit of it... but that's about it.
Playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey right now, which has been one of the worst offenders. All Kassandra's "romantic" dialogue options boil down to "YOU ME ***** NOW?"
I was going to wait until the ps5 patch, but with all that I’m hearing regarding cut content, terrible ai, police that materialise and dematerialise at a whim...I’ll likely wait even longer until it’s on serious discount or DLC adds back content
Deleted it off my harddrive so I wouldnt be tempted to play it anyway. Was going to wait at least untill the february patch but the way things are looking this will be at least a year before they fix the technical issues AND the balancing and cut content etc. Bummer.
I will say one thing I like about some modern games is that they actually acknowledge sexual orientation instead of making everyone bisexual. The fact that there is a lesbian option actually put this game on my radar.
@OrigamiCrane I know you weren’t talking to me but as a female homosexual I would like to weigh in. I actually enjoyed that Cassandra was written as heterosexual. Primarily as her dialogue wasn’t neutral in the way that many games try to do that feels like all they did was change a pronoun. The lens of sexual attraction is bigger and more nuanced than that. As are the ways females and males are socialized and our own natural dispositions. And while I applaud any game that allows me to romance a female or that has npcs that are of varied orientations, that is due to lack of representation and not because I think a one size fits all method is the best approach. Often as a minority one has to get poor representation first so that it is first acknowledged that everyone isn’t actually in a hive mind and then you hope for actually well written representation later (which is sad, I agree but such is the monolith of “the majority”)
I loved that Cassandra was flattered, nervous that she led the player on/would damage their friendship but ultimately didn’t waver. That is not often done in media (general or otherwise) and there is still this horrible view that being a female homosexual is a phase, or if you meet a guy with supposedly all the qualities you are looking for, you can ignore that he is male (the “you just haven’t met the right guy” bs) without understanding that what is being casually implied is r a p e, as sexual contact with a male would be unwanted. And the everybody is bisexual option “I love someone for the person” is dismissive of homo- (and hetro ) sexuals as a whole. Which may be annoying to a hetrosexual if they even care but is erasure to a homosexual.
Especially in a world where you still have to be very, very guarded about your attraction/interest as there can be very harmful (sometimes fatal) consequences.
So while my Inquisitor pined for Cassandra and remained alone, it was wonderfully refreshing to see. Same with Sera, whom I hated as a person, but enjoyed her existence as a Lesbian. I love Briala and Celene for that reason as well despite how unbalanced their relationship can be. Josephine while gorgeous, was more the kind of woman I would like to be friends with (I felt as a diplomat and former bard she had too many skeletons in her closet).
@Kidfried @RogerRoger Yeah, the romance options actually turn me off from games. I like role play, but I don’t want/need a virtual girlfriend. I get that a main character often times has a love interest, which is fine as part of the story. But me having to choose a partner, fall in love and sleep with them in a game? Nope.
I guess there are a lot of lonely/horny people out there, though, who get something from this. But I feel some people are disconnected from experiencing real love these days. Brains getting rewired through porn addiction or living out digital fantasies that give the wrong impression of love. It makes you wonder what society will look like in the future the more people pursue these paths.
@Boon520 there appears to be very little meaning in most of the builds. I kept mine pretty generic due to some stupid trophy choices where you needed to max out certain stats. Turns out it doesn't really matter what you build in the game, it's another one of it's failings. A weak RPG system.
@Kidfried
Dragon Age was void of love? Did you see the Morrigan , Leliana or hell even the Isabela in 2 romances all the way through? and Mass Effect definitely had love as well
Those are bad examples because they had character development and in general cheating would leave you alone but Odyssey? Yeah I agree it's as bad as GTA V or even Ride to Hell Retribution lol
Romance adds a lot to a story or character but it just needs to be done right
@Ryu_Niiyama
Thanks for the polite reply and explaining your side of things . See I have no issue whatsoever with anything that you just said and I agree 100%
My whole point is that if someone is to be mad about cut content showing Judy initially being bisexual then they should also be equally as mad about Cassandra . Either be angry at both or neither . And let's be honest if Panam was to be modded so that she would date girls these same people that are mad about Judy wouldn't say a thing with a few exceptions such as yourself because you are reasonable and respectful to everyone .
I sympathize with you and the stigmas that you mentioned like not being able to find the right guy stuff . But some in your community can't help themselves but to hate everything that appeases a straight person . They even go against bisexuals if they choose to be with a person of a different sex . The reason some are pissed off about this is because they were going around social media saying "cope" to everyone that was respectfully saying that they wanted to date Judy as a straight guy and now predictably they are mad again
Too much hatred from all sides and I'm tired of it to be honest ...
@SpicyTacos101 Well said and sums up my view as well. Only addition I'd like to make is add a human shield mechanic! So many basic things just not implemented.
@OrigamiCrane Well, maybe I just romanced the wrong guys or something in those games, but my romances in those games were definitely a letdown. The Yennefer/Geralt dynamic, that I really dug.
No wonder it runs so badly if it's still got all that unused bloat in it.
@Kidfried Worst part is that it's often incredibly awkward at best.
I vote Firewatch for best romance options.
That Meredith Stout scene was totally unexpected. The text she sends afterwards made it better. Dirty corpo b**ch!
The River romance felt a bit forced but Panam and Judy were great i thought.
More proof it badly needed more time in the oven. 12 more months would of been huge for this game.
@stormyuk we’re at risk of going too off topic here but whilst I agree with you to an extent, I think the fact that you went for a balanced build probably exacerbated these issues for you. I put most of my perk points into quickhack + breach protocol, a few on pistol damage/crit and then towards the end just enough into crafting so that I could craft legendary. It resulted in me being able to one shot all enemies (except bosses) with either silenced pistol or hacks, with all my ultimate hacks (suicide, grenade detonation, system reset) spreading to another enemy. So one successful breach protocol would turn all network systems friendly then I could kill for example 7 guys with two hacks and three bullets very quickly without ever being seen. Whereas other builds I have seen allowed players to approach combat in a completely different way (sniper, bunny hop katana, slow motion high speed sticky grenadier etc). I do agree that the system would often seem broken, bugged or contradictory at times as you could for example ignore any health/armour perks but then craft a bunch of armour clothing mods or ignore brawler perks but use legendary gorilla fists. However, my perk choices did lock me out of using certain cyberware or being able to fully utilise other weapon classes to the same extent as pistol/hack. So I like to think I would replay the game and take a very different approach to combat but none of the other approaches I’ve seen seem as fun as pistol/hack to me - the melee I found very boring, wasn’t really into the grenade physics etc.
I think the biggest issue for me was that enemies didn’t seem to react/adapt to the way in which you choose to fight. Net runners would occasionally find me if I hacked too much before killing them and obviously everyone would start shooting if I was seen, but other than that they would react the same no matter your combat choices and as you max out a specific build you become way too overpowered.
Edit: it seems I’ve come full circle and realised the only incentive for a second play through is to experience the romance options I missed out on...
@Kidfried @Kienda The irony is, the best "romance" storyline I've been able to experience in a game was because of a publisher's terrified homophobia. Being firmly in the friend zone with Kaiden Alenko for the first two Mass Effect games made his nervous, awkward confession towards the end of the third game feel like a natural evolution of events, and absolutely not a stereotypical and sudden "Hello, potentially compatible mate. Please complete your current objective, so that we may discard our clothing and awkwardly mash our faces together."
If it hadn't been for EA's panicked redacting of the first two games' romance mechanics in response to public outcry, I'd have likely triggered the scene early on for trophy purposes, and it wouldn't have meant a gosh-darn thing.
Otherwise yeah, using the word "romance" is laughable.
I am probably the only person to say this but I have had a blast playing this on the PS4 pro. Yes there are bugs and occasional crash. But still an incredible and immersive game.
I mean Judy is the coolest girl in the game, Panam is awesome as well but I like Judy's look way better.
@Boon520
"Acab" really ? If you wrote that for I think, I gotta ask are you angsty teenager or what ?
@OrigamiCrane I do think context is key. Did they cut the content because they ran out of time? Or did they cut it because they decided this was the narrative focus they wanted to take?
Unlike books, games hold “rough drafts” in the form removed content and depending on the context one can react a certain way. I’ve not played cyberpunk so I will stick to bioware examples.
Ashley Williams had dialogue to romance a female shep at first and by ME3 kaiden will romance a male shep. If mods restored the Ashley Williams content I would cry foul because despite it being in my favor I would feel it would alter the character and again go to that neutral point that only works if you are bisexual. Note when I say cry foul I mean I would just ignore it, not that I would actually get mad. For Kaiden, I would take that as character evolution and also take into account how media evolves. Having non heterosexual options is still considered “pandering” by a lot of really hateful people rather that simply acknowledging that humans are more than the bubble they exist in. There are 7 billion of us, you are going to get a lot of permutations that one’s small (relatively speaking) life won’t acknowledge and many that see another worldview react with violence and anger. As such media is still an imperfect reflection (even for heterosexuals) of the human experience but when you have less chances to get it right it becomes exponentially important.
Case in point the “bury your gays”trope. When the majority of media shows homosexuals as unhappy and usually fated to have a violent end that hits harder than say a horror movie on one channel but a family sitcom on the next. For every show that has heterosexuals having a bad time there are many more that are positive so that one is given a more healthy view on society. Media doesn’t exist in a vacuum. From books to ads to the news to religion these things shape our world view and how we deal with others. The thing is media is skewed towards heterosexuals and not in an accurate way.
I don’t presume to speak for anyone but myself but I will say that your comment about why some people that are not heterosexual react a certain way requires context that you likely have not considered or have to deal with. Erasure is a thing. There is a difference between a bisexual and a homosexual and it is dismissive to assume otherwise. Hiding or even outright lying about one’s sexuality to fit in is a thing. Oppression and privilege granted by systemic hatred is a thing. And people get hurt over that or have their lives turned upside down by choices someone else makes. And each side has their own view point. I don’t advocate any type of violent reaction of course but people have a right to feel hurt, betrayed or wary and that is different than hatred.
There is a person (Statistically speaking more than a few, actually) in this world that hates me simply for breathing...that is real hatred and it is terrifying. Reactions I feel are more nuanced. That being said if we worried less about someone else’s life (within reason, don’t ignore the serial killer) so many of out conflicts will fade. But we don’t do that because it might upset our own worldview.
@Uromastryx without turning this into an off-topic political debate, I’ll just point out that it was mainly written as a joke. Though considering the oppressive hyper-capitalist setting of the game and the context of policing within such a system, as well as the general anti-corporate views of the characters/game itself, I think ‘acab’ is a fair attitude to attribute to my character in this role playing game.
@GR44 you’re not the only one. I’ve been enjoying my time in Night City very much. The age of YouTube and Reddit has ironically not been kind to free thinking.
It is now objective fact that this is a terrible game, whether you’ve played it or not, and every facet of it is disappointing, whether you’re having fun or not.
You’re certainly allowed to talk about it, just as long as you temper every excited statement through the pessimistic lens of reality, or else you’re just a ‘fanboy’.
Anyways, glad you’re having fun. I am too. It’s a pretty great game, and for what it’s worth, the (admittedly limited) romance’s are easily some of the best I’ve seen in a video game. And optional. Of course you’d have to have played the game to know that...
Cheers!
@Boon520
I hoped/guessed as much, its just the acab thing ticks me off, people say that then who's the first call when their in trouble...anyway... towards the game yeah sure I get that, but rivers ok he just got some deep seeded issues.
@OrigamiCrane I think Dragon Age is a bit crap to be honest, never been my thing. And yes, Mass Effect wasn’t that long ago where the publishers openly told BioWare to remove gay romance options. Sexual orientations exist and it’s far more realistic for Judy to be a lesbian than for every single person in the game to be bi. The thing is, ever since Judy was announced, there have been guys letching over her design which led to them expressing disgust that they couldn’t date her. This is eerily similar to what is experienced in real life by actual lesbians, where men try to ‘make them like men’. While this is fictional, it’s worryingly close to what goes on if lesbians politely decline heterosexual men.
Not bothered, the characters were great and am perfectly fine with them having preferences. What I am bummed about is finding out is that one quests was cut down. It’s one I really loved but felt stopped too suddenly, and to think there’s more to it...so bummed out
@nessisonett
I mean is it wrong? Absolutely but homosexuals in general are a tiny minority and while their voices should be heard you can't make a game where your playerbase is 95% male and straight and not cater to said audience .
It's like having a burger place and suddenly decide to sell salads only because they are healthier . I know it's a weak example but you get my point . Of course salads should exist but the majority should be burgers and that's where Cyberpunk stumbles
It's not that Judy has a set preference . Most straight people are fine with it and some have even created female V's just to romance her . The problem arises from the fact that if you don't like Panam then tough sh*t there isn't anybody else left for the vast majority of people to romance
And let's be honest here the thirst for Panam from the lesbian fans of Cyberpunk has been equally as bad lol
Lastly I want to close with this . Judy was originally written to be bisexual and give it time and modders will find the same thing about Panam as well . If this was a situation where let's say someone modded Ellie to suddenly like Jesse in The Last of Us 2 then you would be on the money and it would have been really messed up
I know there are vile people out there and I understand your point but I personally don't believe that it applies in this particular situation
@Uromastryx yeah like I said it was written mainly as a joke in my comment here. I didn’t really have an issue with River as a character in general, especially considering that The Detective character is a staple of the wider Cyberpunk genre (Blade Runner being the best example). Aside from my V being generally anti-authoritarian, another reason that I turned him down was because I thought the romance was awkwardly written into the arc - showing me that his sister has kids wasn’t enough to make it seem suitable to hit on me right after investigating some pretty brutal cases of terrorism, police corruption and kidnapped children. You meet Judy under even darker circumstances but you at least have the time and context to form a relationship with her.
I would be careful when it comes to generalising other people’s experiences on the internet because saying acab “ticks you off”. I have never called the police but both me and my (disabled) younger sibling have both been a victim of separate cases of police brutality in the past. Amongst other things, I’ve also witnessed police used batons to attack a man with cerebral palsy, tip him from his wheelchair and drag him across the street. Many people in different countries genuinely don’t feel safe calling the police, so you should consider yourself lucky and privileged if you do feel comfortable calling them - though I hope you never have to 👍
@OrigamiCrane recent statistics (2019) have suggested that 46% of gamers in the US are female, 52% in the UK (2014) and an estimated 1 billion girl/women gamers in the world.
Even if the majority of gamers were straight males, surely mostly catering to them would prevent companies from accessing other markets?
@nessisonett yeah, it sucks when guys try to turn lesbians straight in real life (although you could argue the same lowlifes would happily sleep with a married woman even if it ruined her marriage and screwed up her kids lives etc). They are not necessarily people who are anti-gay or whatever. Just people who think they are able to make anyone love them or want what they can’t have and have something to prove. They are just selfish and self centred.
Anyways, the difference is this is a video game and this character is not real and actually the purpose of the game is not (in my opinion) to promote lesbians or a character that is lesbian but to enable the player to choose who they want to date. It’s a way for players to live out a fantasy. It wouldn’t have hurt to make the character bi or make her straight in the male timeline and gay in the female timeline.
@Boon520 I would bet that the vast majority of female players are mobile gamers.
There are clear differences in demographics between platforms and the type of game being played. Cyberpunks player base would be about 75% straight male (at least).
@Kienda I couldn’t find any stats from a brief search but I would assume you’re right about a difference in gender demographics for different platforms, however mobile gaming is still gaming and I don’t think the popularity, significance or impact of mobile gaming can be diminished. It can also act as an accessible introductory to console/pc gaming especially as companies are seemingly shifting towards streaming technology, ‘play anywhere’ and subscription services.
Mobile and portable gaming is a huge phenomenon in East Asian countries, but we wouldn’t consider people from these countries to be non-gamers or a minority market.
My original response to origamicrane was to counter his generalised narrative that 95% of gamers are straight males.
Edit: just re-read their comment and realised they seem to be referring specifically to a title, my mistake. However I do believe the stats provided suggest that not many games are sure to have a 95% straight male player base unless purposely marketed that way. Can’t see many devs being like “this one is for the boyssss!”
@Boon520
Nah those numbers are only true if you count the people that play games like Candy Crush
Female gamers are at best the 30-40% in select genres such as MMO's , JRPG's and interactive dramas such as Life is Strange .I believe the only genre where females surpass the males is in Sims like games
I also remember reading recently that only 18% of players picked female Shepard in Mass Effect and a lot of those were guys and the same thing applied in AC Odyssey where 2/3 picked Alexios and many Kassandra players were males as well
I mean it's not the best example but if you play online a lot you start to realize that for every 20 dudes you encounter there will be at best one to two girls .
@nessisonett CDPR turned a Bisexual character into a lesbian and a previously Bisexual character into a straight one. That's all I see, and it's pretty evident when you run the code.
Personally I'd have a much bigger problem with that than anything modders have done here.
Like it's right there in our faces. But you know I like being lied to sometimes as well. Keeps the magic going and all that.
@OrigamiCrane fair enough on that point, I had not seen genre specific stats for gender demographics and originally misread your comment, I thought you were suggesting that 95% of all gamers were straight male and that developers in general should cater to them.
Still, in regards to Cyberpunk, your estimate of a 5% playerbase for anyone that identifies as anything other than straight male seems too low imo. CDPR’s development and marketing strategies strongly suggest they were aiming for a diverse market and even if the result was a playerbase as you described, it was not their intention and CDPR shouldn’t need to pander specifically to their preferences or desires if they do not wish to.
CDPR have clarified that they only ever intended for Judy to be a lesbian. I’m assuming it’s the same for the sexuality of the other characters. So changing that by altering code of the game is erasure as previously described by Ryu_Niiyama.
@Boon520 I wasn’t arguing what is and isn’t “real” gaming. But girls are much more likely to be playing Candy Crush or Animal Crossing than they are Call of Duty or FIFA.
My family is a gaming family, two girls, two boys. We all have shared interests in games, namely Nintendo IPs and Square Enix ones. But also, the girls gravitate to certain games while the boys gravitate to others. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, as I have two female friends I play online shooters with every other week along with another male friend. We’ve been gaming together since we were kids and always had similar interests despite the gender difference so it isn’t a hard and fast rule that if you are female you will like this or whatever, but there are definite trends because people are similar in their habits and likes.
Anyways, I could get into the marketing reason as to why it is good for people to focus on a base. For example, Mumsnet is the worlds leading site for parents, but not all parents are mums. They did this because they focused on their base. They were founded to help parents but found 80%-90% of their traffic was from women so they focused on them instead and rebranded. Diet clubs focus on women also. They capture some men, but they know the money is in women. Telemarketing is also focused for women for the same reason trying to get the low hanging fruit. You don’t expend energy marketing to your 30%, you focus on the 70%. And in some cases it is 90% etc. If it’s 50/50 like Nintendo probably is, that’s a different marketing style.
Just remember that it isn’t sexist, it’s a sound strategy for marketing. The gaming world is no different, but there are pressure groups trying to make games that are geared for men to be more friendly to women or whoever and some developers/publishers fall into the trap of serving a minor few and neglecting their main audience.
Not every game should cater to everyone. We should allow nuance and let fan bases express themselves how they like, even if we don’t all agree or like everything a game has to offer.
Unfortunately, some people want all games to tick all boxes and please everyone and in the end you get a lot of boring middle of the road stuff doesn’t please anyone.
@Kienda I appreciate you breaking it down for me but I understand how basic marketing works, I wasn’t disputing that some products and associated marketing are gendered or tailored towards a specific target audience to generate sales and increase revenue etc.
Like I previously said, I originally thought OragamiCrane was referring to all games/gamers when he mentioned a 95% straight male playerbase which is why I brought up the basic gender stats for the wider gaming community.
My later point is that this reasoning doesn’t necessarily apply to a lot games including c2077, and many products in general. CDPR have clearly made an effort to make this game as appealing and accessible to as diverse a group of players as possible by including customisation of gender/sex, romance options for different sexualities, marketing based around things like international women’s day etc. Other than the IWD marketing, pretty much all of the advertising I have experienced for cyberpunk was in fairly gender neutral areas I.e. social media, TV ads, gaming sites, public transport and billboards. Also at no point in such marketing was it blatantly targeted towards straight men. Yes, straight men may already form the largest group of consumers for these types of games and for science fiction culture in general. Maybe they account for the largest portion of traffic on the sites that the game was advertised on. But CDPR set out to develop a dystopian sci fi shooter, not a ‘game for men’. CDPR will have known that their game would probably still sell the most amongst straight men and their marketing team will have known that they needed to attempt to reach male gamers but it was still never explicitly created and advertised for men - let alone straight men.
Whilst gendered marketing can sometimes be useful and is generally accepted, there aren’t many products that you would specifically market towards a specific sexual orientation other than sex/relationship related products and some LGBTQ+ targeted products specific to the needs of those communities. Even if men form the majority of people that bought the game, you don’t know how many are heterosexual, how many are gay or how many identify as the various other sexualities.
They also obviously care about the gender identity and sexuality of the characters they have created for the game otherwise they wouldn’t have given them a sexuality, which is why it’s not acceptable to just expect to be able to romance Judy as a male V just because more boys/men might play the game than girls/women. They wrote Judy to be romanced by female V regardless of who’s playing the game. They made the game for anyone that has an interest in RPG shooter games and cyberpunk/science fiction, regardless of gender or sexuality. Just because a fan base is dominated by straight men doesn’t mean it’s not also for gay women.
@Boon520 I agree with you to some degree. C2077’s marketing was male driven by default. It is a game that appeals to men more than women, features guns, fast cars, loud music and attractive women. I haven’t been out much due to the pandemic, but where I saw it advertised was at half time of football games and on websites like this one.
I’m not saying it is right or wrong what CDPR did in terms of how they wanted to make characters or create their game. They have creative license and I am a massive advocate for people being able to create and express themselves without any restrictions from others.
All I’m saying is that with that kind of creative license there is always a risk that they will upset their target audience. If they know that 75% of players are straight men and that 50% of them would prefer to romance a certain character. Why not make that character accessible to them as a straight female in one timeline (straight male V) and then make that character a lesbian in another timeline (gay female V)?
It serves the purpose of pleasing the player/customer and giving them what they want.
I don’t believe all characters have to fulfil roles or tick boxes. They don’t always exist for a greater cause. Sometimes they do. Sometimes it is important that a character fulfils a role within a game or a story. However, this game was advertised as having a way to play the game that you like and didn’t really deliver on that. And so customers were left disappointed. And it’s not good to disappoint paying customers just to fulfil a purpose of those people that support you are less likely to come back in the future. Not because they are anti-anything, but just simple people who want what they want.
@Boon520
Oh don't take my 95% thing as a fact . It was just a figure of speech . Looking back I should have the used the majority instead
As far as Judy being written to be a lesbian that's all well and good but just like KrystalMyth said it's in the code that Judy was initially written to be bisexual and all you have to do is switch the command from off to on
It's not one of those situations where the lines and voice are still from the female V and you just replace it with a dude . No there are voiced lines that prove Judy was bisexual
If you want to talk about erasure and representation then Judy and Panam were retconned sloppily may I add to not be bisexual . What does that say about bisexual representation then?
@Kienda yeah I definitely agree that they overstated the whole concept of choice and playing as ‘your own V’. I still really enjoyed the game but what we got was a fairly linear shooter game with some RPG systems and a couple of different endings. I just think that the concern should be more about the aspects that they definitely advertised and were then toned down or removed such as the significance of life paths, unique experiences, narrative choices throughout the game instead of just picking an ending, choices actually affecting relationships with NPC characters (as in general, not just romance) and even sex/romance. I think they should have just had more choices for each gender and sexuality, not make each character open to any gender or sexuality.
@OrigamiCrane I would’ve liked to see more choice for each gender + sexuality. I think this game did a pretty lousy job when it came to both representation and choice in regards to gender/sexuality compared to what they suggested in advertising. I remember them saying ‘fully customisable genitals’ then all we got were a few preset choices and a couple of dick/boob sizes. It would have been great to see bisexual characters, trans characters, asexual characters etc, more sex/romance choices for however you designed your character and more relationship building in general. I don’t know how much they had planned to put in and then how much got cut, I just don’t believe bisexual Judy was ever advertised, intended or cut. Their statement explains that they just recorded pretty much all dialogue in both voices for development purposes. If they explicitly advertised Judy as bisexual then didn’t deliver I would probably agree with you on that. If people wanna mod it to romance Judy as male V then I guess that’s their choice and not really my business, I just don’t think people should be criticising it as cut content or trying to change her sexuality in c2077 canon or online fandom.
Having completed the game a couple of weeks ago I was left underwhelmed. The storytelling was good but the game engine needs a lot of work. It would have been nice if the romance options were not gender/voice locked .
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